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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Contents:
  Homebrew Digest #196 (July 07, 1989) (ferguson ct 71078)
  Yeast (David Baer)
  Potential contamination problem; comment invited ("FEINSTEIN, CHERYL")
  This just in .... (Steve Anthony)
  Needed:  Recipe for sake (gateh)
  source of kegging and brewing equipment (Steve Conklin)

Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com


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Date: Tue, 11 Jul 89 08:30:19 CDT
From: rds at vogon.cray.com (Bob Swanson)

Nitrosamines

I came upon the following item in "World Press
Review" magazine.  It is taken from "Le Monde" 
of Paris:

"Scientists in Britain have correlated pancreatic
cancer and excessive consumption of British
beer.  After a small four-year study, the
British Imperial Cancer Research Fund concluded
that consumption of even 3.7 quarts per week
increases the risk of death from pancreatic
cancer threefold.  The culprits are potentially
carcinogenic nitrosamines, generated when malt
is roasted in the brewing process."

I remember some controversy about nitrosamines
in this country in recent years.  The fallout seemed
to be that these chemicals were the result
of "cutting corners" in the brewing process by
the massive-sized U. S. brewers.

One of the questions in my mind is whether
these same "shortcut" techniques are used
by the makers of real ale in Britain.  It is assumed
that such techniques are common in the tank farms of 
mass consumption brews, including lager.

For this forum, the question would be:
Do we home brewers have any control over the
generation of nitrosamines in our brews?  I am
an extract brewer.  Should I be concerned about
the brands and types of extract which I purchase?
Does the making of dark beers increase the concentration
of these chemicals?

Any insights about this issue would be most welcomed.

Bob Swanson
Cray Research
rds at hall.cray.com

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Date: Tue, 11 Jul 89 10:16:39 EDT
From: ferguson%X102C at HARRIS-ATD.COM (ferguson ct 71078)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #196 (July 07, 1989)

Darryl Richman <darryl at ism780c.isc.com> writes:

>10 hours is just fine.  Sometimes conditions aren't so good and it
>takes longer (24...48...even more).  Usually this results from
>underpitching, because the yeast don't move onto their fermentation
>phase until they have reached a level of about 10^7 cells/ml.
>Homebrewers are notorious underpitchers because nobody wants to
>hassle making a starter several days ahead.

I had a some slow start on a batch of homebrew but I attributed it to
the inability of the dry yeast to penetrate the foam barrier on the
top of the wort.  I could see the powdered yeast just sitting there.
I was tempted to rouse or stir the wort in the fermenter but decided
not to.  It eventually took off and turned out OK.

Nowadays I re-hydrate dried yeast with a cup or so of tap water prior
to pitching.  The liquid yeast penetrates the foam barrier and
disperses instantly causing fast starts.  I wonder whether the slow
starts you have witnessed are due to homebrewers using dry yeast
rather than inadequate yeast?

Chuck Ferguson             Harris Government Information Systems Division
(407) 984-6010             MS: W1/7732  PO Box 98000  Melbourne, FL 32902
Internet:                  ferguson%cobra at trantor.harris-atd.com
Usenet:                    uunet!x102a!x102c!ferguson

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Date: Tue, 11 Jul 89 07:52:48 PDT
From: dsbaer at EBay.Sun.COM (David Baer)
Subject: Yeast

In response to Richard Hargan and using liquid yeast:

In my humble experience, I think the quality of liquid yeast 
is so much superior  to dry yeasts that the $4.00 price tag is 
not really that high. But granted the aim of homebrewing is to make 
great beer at a reasonable price, I know of a way to save money without 
freezing, using agar slants or innoculation loops.

Using the same 1 quart of wort in a gallon jar technique,
about five days before you brew, try culturing 
the sediment from one of those new fangeled microbrews.  I use Sierra
Nevada, and have had success every time. I have also used
Cooper's REAL ale(lower attenuation than SN).  I understand that Chimay 
and Duvel will come to life, and the Hefe-Weisse beers from 
Ayinger and Monschoff also have dormant, but not dead, yeast.
I think there are a couple of lagers out there with dormant sediment
but I like the William's American and spend $4.00 for that
consistency and quality.

If  there is a local brewpub, go there and try to work out a
deal with the brewer for yeast.  I am sure he/she would give a
couple of ounces away for your next batch if you promised him/her 
a couple of homers. Find out when the next brew session is,
and walk out with some pretty superior yeast. It is amazing 
what gratitude will do. Maybe you would impress him/her so much 
that he/she would design a recipe in your honor, maybe 
even let you brew a  10 bbl batch with him/her (I doubt it, but anything
is possible)!

Well in summary, to obtain very high quality yeast, drink a
high quality, sedimented beer, and then carefully pour that 
sediment into a cooled quantity of wort and wait for it to reactivate. 
Add it to your wort and watch it go. All for the price of a beer that
you get to drink!

Dave Baer
Menlo Park, CA
Sun Microsystems

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Date: 11 Jul 89 12:54:00 EDT
From: "FEINSTEIN, CHERYL" <crf at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
Subject: Potential contamination problem; comment invited

Hello, all!

I should very much like to hear what anyone has to say regarding my 
experiences with my latest batch of brew, as described below.  It should be 
understood that I tried to maintain my usual standards of sanitation at all 
times, and that prior to this have never experienced any kind of contamination 
problem.

I am attempting to produce a batch of "Cherries in the Snow," _per_ Papazian.  
This is my first time including fruit in a wort.  The recipe calls for one to
boil up one's wort, cooking for 45 min, and then to pour 10lbs of cherries
into the hot wort. This brings the temp down (hopefully) to 160-170 deg. F.,
which one maintains for 15min.  This pasteurizes the cherries.  One is
supposed to try not to let the temp get too high during this 15 min period, as
there is the potential for bringing out the cherries' natural pectin,
resulting in chill haze in the finished brew.  My *only* deviation from the
recipe _per se_ was to slit each cherry to the pit, to enable better
fermentation of the fruit. 

The first 5 days of fermentation are supposed to be open-vat, after which time 
the cherries are fished out with a strainer which has been sterilized by 
boiling and the brew is racked into a closed vessel for secondary fermentation.

This is where things started to get interesting.  After racking into the 
secondary fermenting vessel (a glass jug) and putting the air lock on, I went 
out of town for the holiday weekend.  When I returned, I discovered a white 
scum on the surface of the brew.  The brew itself clarified nicely; the 
whatever-it-is is *only* on the surface.  It seems to cling to the side of the 
jug; when I tipped the jug slightly it did so.

I am now preparing to bottle, under the assumption that this surface material 
is a wild yeast or other foreign element introduced by the cherries (as 
opposed to bacterial contamination), and will just see what happens and how 
the brew tastes in 3 weeks or so.

Comments?  Thank you!

                                Yours in Carbonation,

                                      Cher Feinstein
                                      Univ. of Fla.
                                      Gainesville, FL

                                      INTERNET:  CRF at GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU
                                      BITNET:  CRF at IFASGNV

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Date: Tue, 11 Jul 89 15:08:40 EDT
From: davidc at northstar79.Dartmouth.EDU (David Carter)

I received a request to post this to all, so here goes. . .

Three or so years ago, I purchased a Roto-Keg plastic kegging system.
It is a five-gallon spherical plastic (I assume food-grade)  container with
legs built into the bottom, a spigot on the side, and a venting/carbonation
system on the top.  I think it cost me around $30.

Roto-Keg promotes itself as a single-stage fermantation system-- really
single stage.  Primary and secondary fermentation and carbonation can
all occur in the same vessel; the venting system contains a pressure relief
valve so that excess carbon dioxide will be vented during fermentation.

The one batch I made in the thing didn't work out.  It fermented fine, but
when the time came to open the spigot, I got a blast of pressurized carbon
dioxode.  The spigot is supposed to use a floating pickup to which it
is attached with a plastic hose.  The float is supposed to be placed on the
wort before fermentation and once things have died down, one should be
able to simply pour the finished product.  What had happened to me was
that the plastic hose had fallen off on the spigot end, so instead of the pressurized
co2 pushing my beer up, it just blasted out.  I think that the problem was in the
hose-- it seemed too rigid.  Probably during the initial fermentation, the 
float got picked up too high by the krausen and the hose fell off.

Looking back, I realize that I should have fixed the hose problem, re-sealed
the kag and either tossed in a bit of sugar or found a co2 source to
pressurize the keg again.  I did not.  The beer was dumped, and the
plastic keg has sat in an attic ever since.  It's probably too scratched up
now for me to ever use it with peace of mind.  I was disappointed in the
system, but perhaps it could be a convenient way to keg beer.

A few points:

It is plastic, and I think that if I were to use it I would not use it for primary
and secondary fermentation.  I like glass, and I also do not like the idea of 
letting my beer sit over the same spent yeasties for any length of time.

The keg supposedly works on pressure built up by the co2 discharged in
fermentation.  I would imagine (and I think I remember something in the
instructions that came with the keg) that the pressure would run out before the
beer did, and some sort of external co2 source would be required.  I think
they mentioned small bottles of co2 which they sold, and there was a firring at the
top.

The address, you ask?

There are two on the papers I have:

Winemaker Unlimited
999 Maine Road
PO Box C-406
Westport, MA 02790

Roto-Keg Ltd.
Park Road
Rushden
North Hamptonshire
(England, I assume)

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone else who has used this system.
Maybe if it's worth it, I'll try to get it up and running.

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Date: Tue, 11 Jul 89 16:52:37 EDT
From: Steve Anthony <steveo at Think.COM>
Subject: This just in ....

(Not really homebrewing, but beer just the same)

British brewers may retain pubs

London- The goverment said yesterday that Britain's biggest brewers will
not have to sell off 22,000 pubs, as had been recommended as a way of
fostering competition among the nation's taverns, most of which are brewery
owned.  Lord Young, the trade secretary, announced the measures to
encourage competition in supplying beer and other drinks, but his
measures were not as drastic as those recommended this year by the
Monopolies and Mergers Commission.  Britain's brewers are allowed to own
pubs and to require their tennants to buy beer and drinks only from the
owner.  Industry critics have called on the goverment to force competition,
which would be expected to bring cheaaper prices and wider choices for
consumers.

Associated Press

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Date: Tue, 11 Jul 89 13:32:26 edt
From: gateh%CONNCOLL.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Needed:  Recipe for sake

A homebrew friend who does not have access to the NETs asked to me see
if there was anyone out there with a recipe for sake, or perhaps a
pointer to a good book.  Any help would be much appreciated.

An aside - I wrote a couple of months back concerning the truly nasty
odor my first batch of homebrew displayed.  I'm glad to say that it has now
been in the bottles about a month, and every bottle is tasting better and
better.  The odor is almost completely gone, carbonation looks good, just
needs a little more hoppiness - other than that, quite drinkable.

Another aside - on a recent road-trip to Minnesota, a friend gave me a
quarter-barrel (7.8 gal US, I believe).  I have a CO2 tap setup in my
house already, and since bottling was such a pain, I thought I'd try
a keg.  I've seen a couple of other people are interested in such a venture.
I was just planning to follow normal procedure, except to dump the priming
sugar into the keg instead of the bottles - is this okay?  Another potential
problem is that there will be a significant air space in the keg, since
my secondary carboy is only 5 gal.  Is this a problem?

Any others advice/suggestions concerning the use of kegs would be wonderful.

Thanks again for all the help - Gregg

*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
Gregg TeHennepe                        | Academic Computing and User Services
Minicomputer Specialist                | Box 5482
BITNET:  gateh at conncoll                | Connecticut College
Phone:   (203) 447-7681                | New London, CT   06320

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Date: Tue, 11 Jul 89 13:06:10 CDT
From: Steve Conklin <hpfcla!hplabs!amdahl!uunet!tesla!steve>
Subject: source of kegging and brewing equipment

Ted Estes writes:

> A while back, there was a discussion on the mailing list about acquiring
> all the hardware necessary for kegging (and dispensing) one's homebrew.
> Unfortunately, I (foolishly) didn't save any of the information.  Now
> I want to keg!  Would someone, perhaps, have those newsletters archived
> somewhere, and would that someone be kind enough to send them on to me?
> 
> Thanks a whole bunch.
> 
> Ted Estes
> Skokie, IL
> att!ttrdf!estes    OR   arpa!estes at ttrdf.att.com

This is probably a good time to repeat the address and phone number for
the RAPIDS Company. I have no connection with these people. RAPIDS
is a wholesale bar and restaurant supply company, and they sell just
about any kind of kegging equipment you can think of. When I bought my
kegging system (soda cans - the only way to go), I ordered the components
from a mail-order homebrew supply house, and the gas bottle, regulator,
soda can, and associated equipment cost somewhere around $200. I later
bought a second soda can for another $48. Both soda cans were used, and one
of them was sort of bent up. RAPIDS sells NEW 5 gal soda cans for $57,
and I think that you could put together a system from them for about $150.
They sell equipment for use with all commercial beer kegs, also. They also
sell stainless kettles, and too many other things to list. Here is a list
of prices for their stainless kettles:

	size		kettle		lid

	 8 Qt		$37.00		$08.75
	12 Qt		$38.00		$11.50
	16 Qt		$41.50		$13.25
	20 Qt		$46.00		$13.25
	24 Qt		$49.50		$15.25
	40 Qt		$66.50		$17.50
	64 Qt		$210.00		$26.50
	80 Qt		$268.00		$26.50

The number for RAPIDS is 1-800-553-7906.
They will send you a free catalog.
Their address is:

1011 2nd Ave. S.W.
P.O. box 396
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
52406

 You won't regret going to kegs. It takes me 30 minutes from start to finish,
including cleanup, to keg a batch. It used to be a minimum 2 hour job to
bottle.

 If you need help figuring out what you need, drop me email, and I'll
try to help out. Maybe I'll put together a list of needed items and
total the cost.

		Steve Conklin		uunet!ingr!tesla!steve
		Intergraph Corp.	tesla!steve at ingr.com
		Huntsville, AL 35807	W (205) 772-4013
					H (205) 461-8698

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #199, 07/12/89

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