---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Heart of the Hop/HBD Overload (Fred Waltman)
  BELGIAN CANDI SUGAR (SJarr93801 at aol.com)
  re:Iodophor (Jim Liddil)
  re: Where to get beer in New Brunswick or PEI (CA) (Alex Flinsch)
  Need help with Xmas brew ((MR BILL   STOUGHTON))
  Priming sugar (Bill Giffin)
  name change (Jon Grow)
  Spinning Gyroscopic Beer / Full-Wort Boils (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  Philly Brewpubs/Mash at 158/Calibrate Thermometers/Beer Thruster (Esbitter at aol.com)
  Higher temp yeasts (HuskerRed at aol.com)
  fermenting temp. (ahl at swcp.com)
  Minneapolis Brewpubs ((Mike Urseth))
  Wild Hops (Orville Deutchman)
  unusual flavorings (Mike Foster)
  Thermal denaturation of enzymes (Pierre Jelenc)
  Sweet Proteins?/ Kegging Stuff/ Early Hops ((John (The Coyote) Wyllie))
  Grolsch bottles, beer milkshakes, cane sugar (Kurt Schilling)
  1996 MCM results ((Daniel S. McConnell))
  Yeast longevity /Hot Pots   ((John (The Coyote) Wyllie))

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Waltman <waltman at netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:07:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Heart of the Hop/HBD Overload

Bill Rusts wonders if "heart of the hop" is marketing speak for hop
extract. I believe it is actually what is left over when the hop extract
is made -- i.e. hops with most (but not all) alpha acids removed. I guess
that is why they use four times as much. :)

To compound the HBD bandwidth problem -- weren't there some complaints a
while back about too many people discussing via email and not enough on
the Digest? Restricting the outflow won't cut down on the noise. In fact,
it may delay the good and timely posts making for less useful information
in a given week.

Fred Waltman
waltman at netcom.com
http://www.homebrew.inter.net



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From: SJarr93801 at aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:38:52 -0400
Subject: BELGIAN CANDI SUGAR

At the last James River Homebrewers club meeting, we got off on the subject
of the Belgian candi sugar and a couple of guys referenced a British homebrew
book that said the Belgian candi sugar was just crystalized white sugar,
which is sucrose.

I went back and  checked out the section on candi sugar in Pierre Rajotte's
book on Belgian Ale and found it a little confusing.  He states on p. 65 that
candi contains 99% sucrose.  On the next page, he discusses the use of brown
sugar as a substitute for candi sugar but warns that it will have a different
taste profile and it will not ferment like a mixture of dextrose and sucrose,
infering that candi is something other than 99% sucrose.  So just what is
candi sugar?  Is it crystalized invert sugar?  Brewing minds want to know...

Since I volunteered to brew a batch of Belgian ale for our October meeting, I
have really taken a liking to the research requiring the taste buds.  I'm
ready to brew a couple more batches so that they're in their prime around
Christmas, but I haven't found a supplier that will sell me the candi by the
pound instead of by the quarter pound.  I'm also looking for a supply of
sweet gale seeds.  Can someone recommend a good, reliable source for the
oddities required for Belgian brewing?

And why is it on the Lambic homepage we are told to just say no to Wyeast?
 Too many bananas?

Back to the shadows...


                                           Steve Jarrett

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From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 15:31:20 -0700 (MST)
Subject: re:Iodophor

Bill Rst wrote:
Quoting Dion:

> >Not quite true.  If kept in a corny keg, it will last indefinitely.  I
> >have tested the concentration with iodine indicator papers and at
> >least as accurate as the papers are, it stayed at 200ppm for months.
>
> I hope you are right.  My own experience and your test results bear that
> out.  The article says that iodine (12.5 ppm BTW, the 200ppm ratio was for
> chlorine) will outgas from the solution given time, and that by keeping it
> in a tightly sealed jar or PET bottle, it could remain stable for a week.
> It could be that the iodine outgases into the headspace of the jar.  PET
> bottles, from what I understand, are gas permeable anyway.
>
> Could it be that the pressurized headspace in a corny keg keeps the iodine
> in solution?  I'm no scientific guru (obviously), but can the iodine outgas
> and be replaced by Co2?  How many lbs. of pressure would be required to
> prevent the iodine from outgassing?  You need at least 5-6 lbs. just to make
> sure the seals work.

Since I was one of the authors of the Zymurgy article and did a good deal of
research on idophor I thought I would throw in my view.  In preparing the
article I spoke repeatedly to the people who actually make the iodine-polymer
complex that other people buy and then make their own formulations from. Iodine
is volatile and will disassociate from the complex over time.  In a sealed
container the iodine can't go anywhere.  So I assume (which may be wrong) that
an equilibrium is reached between iodine in solution (both free and bound) and
the free iodone in the headspace.

The people who sell the iodophor to brewers, resteraunts etc. suggest that the
solution not be stored for more than a week so as to ensure it's sanitizing
ability.  This is important when a food inspector comes around and tests your
sanitizer for activity.

PET is actually relatively impermeable compared to other plastic as far as
gases go.  That is why it is used for soda.  As a test make a 25 ppm iodophor
solution and put half in an open jar and the other half in a PET bottle.  Next
day look at the color change.  Here in AZ where it is hot all the time I have
seen solution go colorless in a few hours.  Take a whiff of a sealed bottle of
iodophor solution (25 ppm) after it has set over night (leave some head space).
You get a big blast of iodine aroma.

Also in researching the article I spoke to the people at the UC Davis brewing
lab.  They go around and check breweries for bacteria and wild yeasts.  They
are routinely able to culture bacteria and yeast from samples taken from
buckets of iodophor in breweries.  This is likely due to the fact that a bunch
of protein compunds end up in the bucket because these "brewers" don't get it
that iodophor is only a sanitizer not a cleaner.  Did I waste enough bandwidth?

Jim Liddil
Just Say No to Wyeast. :-)



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From: Alex Flinsch <Sparrowhawk at worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 00:57:17 GMT
Subject: re: Where to get beer in New Brunswick or PEI (CA)

Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at bmd.cpii.com> writes

>Last year when we went to PEI we found the beer selection poor.  I think the
>best we could get was Moosehead.  No micros of any sort. Not even a
>Moosehaed (or other) specialty.

Lucky you - you were able to buy beer...
On my last trip (about 9 yrs ago) my buddy & I hit the border about 10
minutes AFTER the provincial stores had closed on a Saturday night, they
were closed all day Sunday, Monday was a holiday (Labor day) and they were
closed again. We were finally able to buy some beer on Tuesday afternoon in
Nova Scotia, before getting on the ferry back to Maine. Basically all we did
was drive from NB to PEI and all the way back thru NS, a nice drive but no
beer.....




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From: ZXRF66A at prodigy.com (MR BILL STOUGHTON)
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 01:38:40, -0500
Subject: Need help with Xmas brew

- -- [ From: Bill Stoughton * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --

I'm in the planning stages for my Christmas beer, and seek guidance
from the collective wisdom of the Digest.  I plan to do a partial mash
variation on the "Brauenkeller Christmas Stout" found in Cat's Meow,
which includes cinnamon, cocoa and raspberries.  I have found that the
stouts I have done in the past improve greatly with several month's
aging, so I thought I'd brew my Christmas stout now.  However, a fellow
brewer suggested I wait til October, because he's found that flavorings
start losing their potency after a couple of months.  What has been the
experience of you fellow HBD'ers?  Also, what are the opinions out
there concerning using fruit extracts vs. adding actual fruit?

Private e-mail responses are welcome.

Thanks,
Bill Stoughton
ZXRF66A at prodigy.com

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From: Bill Giffin <billg at maine.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 10:23:49 -0500
Subject: Priming sugar

Good morning,

<<  David Burley says:
 I used sucrose at the rate of 10 oz. per 5 gallons.
>>

Volume or weight?  If it is weight your beer is way over primed. Even
with that volume of sucrose it still appears that your beer is over
primed.

Corn sugar is 70-80% fermentable.  Cane sugar is 100% fermentable.
You must use about 25% more corn sugar then cane sugar to achieve
the same level of carbonization.

I weigh my priming sugar and have for some time as I feel that I get
more consistent results by weighing the sugar.  I use  85 g (3 oz.)of
cane sugar for a 5 gallon batch of pale ale, 100 g of cane sugar in
lagers, and 50 g of cane sugar in bitter.

I have used both corn and cane sugar to prime my beers.  I have found
no difference in the amount of time that it took to condition the beer.
Remember the yeast here is a big player in this conditioning bit.  Big
beers where the yeast has been stressed by a lot of alcohol benefit by
pitching some fresh yeast at bottling time.  Low gravity beers usually
do not need additional yeast and will come into condition in a week or
two.

Bill


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From: Jon Grow <beeressn at hic.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 10:06:02 -0500
Subject: name change

The Ales Are Us brew club in Houston has changed it's name. Please note the
new name is Deja Brew Homebrew Club. Thank you.

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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 11:43:06 -0400
Subject: Spinning Gyroscopic Beer / Full-Wort Boils

Greger Olson offers a challenge:

> can be spun to simulate gravity.  [All you physics types can calculate the
> effect gyroscopic forces produced by rotating 5 gal or so of wort could
have
> on the orbital dynamics of the shuttle.

So, it's the old bunched-up-wet-towel-in-the-spin-cycle trick, eh?

If you put *two* 5-gal carboys on opposite ends of a stick & spun that about
the stick's center, you wouldn't have any such effects...

************

I'll offer another option on the full-wort boil thread.  Check out my
Five-Gallon Plastic Electric Brewery on my web page.  A friend of mine just
built a 120VAC boiler only (he's an extract brewer), and I finally have some
data (the design on the web page is 220V).  Using one 240V/4500W element at
120V (1125W) plus another with a rectifier to halve the power (563W), boiling
temeprature was reached from tap water temp in 50 minutes (though our tap
water is pretty warm this time of year).  This is a 15A load; problem is, his
fridge was on the same 20A GFI circuit, so it tripped the breaker when the
fridge kicked on.

He re-ran the experiment using just the one element (1125W), and boil ensued
at about one hour fifteen.  This is a 10A load, which should be much more
likely not to compete even with a (modern) fridge (worked for him).  This is
a fairly long time, but not overly so, considering my 3-1/2 gal extract boils
took 45 minutes or so.

So, I suggest basically building the HLT in my article (using a 7-gal bucket,
available at most brew stores), including the chiller-in-the-lid for the
boiler (unless you prefer a CF chiller).  A *single element* operated off
120VAC provides an excellent boil and a reasonable heating time.

When using liquid extract, (1) be sure to shut off the element while adding
the extract, and (2) add it slowly; try to dissolve it as much as possible
before it "sinks" in big gobs, so it doesn't coat the element and scorch.  My
friend says this is not a difficult thing to do.

You should be able to make the boiler, including chiller, for about $50.



Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy

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From: Esbitter at aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 15:55:58 -0400
Subject: Philly Brewpubs/Mash at 158/Calibrate Thermometers/Beer Thruster

Hello collective! I have been enjoying most of the discourse for a long time
now.

First, can anyone recommend brewpubs and microbreweries in the Philly area. I
have a business trip there next month. Private e-mail would be fine. TIA.

(Rant Mode On)
Next, please stop the discourse about mashing at 158F, alpha/beta amylase,
fermentable/less fermentable wort, and who is more correct about being right.
(Rant Off)

Next, seldom mentioned here lately in HBD, from Dave Miller's Homebrewing
Guide, a highly recommended way to calibrate our brewing thermometers is to
use the common household fever thermometer. It is VERY accurate within its
narrow range of temperature (usually .2 degrees F). When I used this
comparison, I found that my thermometers were indeed out of agreement, even
after trying to calibrate them at boiling temperature.

Finally, I could not help but observe that Daniel Goodale's post regarding
BEER IN SPACE fermenters, namely the "BEER THRUSTER" gave new meaning to the
term "Craft Brewing."     :-}

======================================================
Homebrewers are like dogs teaching each other how to
chase cars. - Ann Reed

    +-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-+
     + The Local Brewing Company +
      +   ESBITTER at  at AOL.COM     +
       +         Randy Reed             +
      +   South Shore Brew Club    +
     +  (Boston, MA Area - South)  +
 +-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-+

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From: HuskerRed at aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 15:03:16 -0400
Subject: Higher temp yeasts

I was looking at a Wyeast pamplete and saw that there are a few
yeast strains that work on the higher temps.  I found 8 yeast
suitable for up to 75F and one that goes to 78F.  The 75F yeast are:
	1335 British ale II
	1388 Belgain Strong ale
	3278 Belgain Lambic blend
	3333 German Wheat
	3944 Belgian Witbier	
	3134 Sake
	3184 Sweet Mead
	and 3632 Dry Mead.
At 78F, 3787 Trappist high gravity.

Most of these yeast are for specific uses but everyone should do a
mead at least once!  Two reasons to do mead, it's easy (no mashing,
no sparging, no long boil) and it taste so good.  I used 3333 a
couple of weeks ago and really liked it.  Nice sour notes.  The
pamplete says that 1335 is typical of British and Canadain
fermention profiles.  3944 has plum and apple like nose, sounds
interesting.

- -----

Could someone send me info on how to subcribe to the Mead Digest.
TIA

Jason Henning
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing

Always remember that I have taken more out of alcohol that alcohol
has taken out of me.  -- Sir Winston Churchill

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From: ahl at swcp.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 13:20:56 -0600
Subject: fermenting temp.

I am new to homebrewing and just bottled my first batch.  I've noticed
quite a bit of discussion lately re: soapy tasting beer due to high
fermentation temps as well as the use of wet t-shirts, etc. to cool the
carboy during fermentation.
The temp. of my beer was 82 F when I took hydrometer readings, I know this
is warm, but what is the ideal fermentation temperature?  Thanks.

AHL ALBUQUERQUE HYDROPONICS AND LIGHTING
1001 SAN MATEO SE
ALBUQUERUQE, NM 87108
1-800-753-4617
http://www.swcp.com/~ahl/ahl.html



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From: beernote at realbeer.com (Mike Urseth)
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 11:33:14 -0600
Subject: Minneapolis Brewpubs

>From: "Stanley A. White/620664/PPI/EKC"
>Date: 11 Jul 96  5:20:09 EDT
>Subject: Atlanta or Minneapolis Brewpubs
>
>Greetings to all!!
>
>I will be traveling in the Minneaopolis and Atlanta areas soon and was looking
>for good brewpubs / bars with good beer selection for the time I'm there.
>Won't have a car so cab or walking distance is best.
>I'm staying at the Radison in downtown Minneapolis and at the Hotel Nikko on
>Peachtree NE in Atlanta.
>
In Downtown Minneapolis the only brewpub is Rock Bottom (about 9th and
Hennepin).
If you can manage it, go to:

Sherlock's Home
11000 Red Circle
Minnetonka, MN  55343
612/931-0203

Very authentic British style ales. Straight west of the airport on Crosstown.

In St. Paul:
Mill Street Brewing/Green Mill Pizza
Grand and Hamline

Have fun.

>
>Stan White
>swhite at kodak.com

Mike Urseth
Editor & Publisher
Midwest Beer Notes
339 Sixth Avenue
Clayton, WI  54004
715-948-2990 ph.
715-948-2981 fax
e-mail:  beernote at realbeer.com


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From: Orville Deutchman <orion at mdc.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 14:07:32 -0400
Subject: Wild Hops

From: jim.anderson at execnet.com (JIM ANDERSON)
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 96 08:44:00 -0500
Subject: Wild Hops?

Has anyone here ever experimented with wild hops?  (Or heard of anyone
who has?)  I have heard these referred to as "humulus americanus," but
don't know if that's an accurate moniker or not.

        Jim, wild hops are not completely naturally occuring. That is, they
were, at some time or another, planted intentionally. They may have mutated
slightly due to lack of care. However, you should be delighted that the hops
available are obviously naturally oblivious to all the diseases and pests
that the rest of are used to dealing with. Consider yourself lucky to have
the resource.
        Even though they are somewhat "wild" at this stage, they will most
likely display some or all of the characteristics of the cultivated variety,
and can be used interchangeably with store bought. Get yourself some well
done books on hops growing, and get also what you can glean from the
commercial growers (many have nice, full colored catalogs of hops types that
they grow. Using these resources, you can probably at least put the hops
into a family type. That is, it is either a bittering hops, or an aroma
hops, etc...

In any event, I have access to a virtually unlimited quantity of these,
but I'm reluctant to put my other ingredients to risk, although I might
consider 1- or 2-gallon batches.

If the supply is readily available (lucky you!), then experiment to your
hearts content. Using the resource guides, you should be able to come up
with at least one combination that will suit your taste. When you get that
combination set, brew larger batches!

Orville Deutchman
Orville Deutchman

Brewer of Down Under Ale!
Hobby Brewing at its Finest!


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From: Mike Foster <mfoster1 at voyager.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 13:27:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: unusual flavorings

At 08:58 PM 7/12/96 GMT, you wrote:

>top 10 unorthodox flavorings used in entries in the boston beer
>company's homebrew contest:

>8. Banana

Which reminds me... A friend of mine wanted me to ask you all what could
possibly produce a banana flavor in beer. By accident, he quickly added.

- -Mike Foster			mfoster1 at voyager.net
Lord Wulfgar Silberbar		proto-incipient Shire of Altenberg
#88				goalie for the SPC Flyers
Jessica Benson			Virtual Adept extrordinaire
What? Me? Schizophrenic?	Am not!



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From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 96 12:07:36 EDT
Subject: Thermal denaturation of enzymes

Charlie Scandrett <merino at buggs.cynergy.com.au> says:
>
> The denaturing of each type of protein occurs very quickly once the heat
> energy of the molecules reaches a *threshold* greater than the weakest
> disulphide bonds in the structure of that protein. The structure partially
> collapses and, for enzymes, structure determines function, so function 
ceases.

Denaturation does not depend on breaking the disulfide bonds, which are
quite strong anyway: a protein can be totally heat-inactivated with all
its S-S intact. On the other hand, reduction of the S-S to SH does
facilitate denaturation but for that you need to add a reducing agent such
as mercaptoethanol or DTT. On the gripping hand, most intracellular
enzymes do not contain S-S bonds anyway, since most cells' insides are
reducing (with some exceptions in some organelles, etc).

Pierre

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From: ccoyote at sunrem.com (John (The Coyote) Wyllie)
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 10:32:31 -0600
Subject: Sweet Proteins?/ Kegging Stuff/ Early Hops

***
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 96 15:48:06 CDT
Subject: Re: hi temp mash-source of sweetness?

debates the sweetness of dextrins and states:
>Polysaccharides composed of greater than three (or is it four?)
monosaccharide units have no flavor; they certainly aren't sweet. Sweetness
is determined by residual sugars (i.e. small molecules), not dextrins or
starches (NOTE: some proteins taste sweet too)

*  Sweet proteins?  I dunno???   (but do they smell fruity?)  Perhaps
proteins with saccharide moities, but would that be due to the proteins
themselves?  Or due to the sugar components, and perhaps even after they
are cleaved from the proteins by enzymes in the mouth (those reactions can
be quite quick)-  And yes we do have enzymes of that sort in our mouths,
part of the reason some Indian groups chew their grains rather than mashing
to make fermented beverages (ever see "Medicine Man"? For an example). *
wait let me qualify this:  We have polysaccaride-ases that break down
starches to sugars, our first line of attack in our digestive tract (I
better get my textbook).  Try sucking on a mouthful of cornstarch for a
while and you will notice a change from that awful pasty sensation to the
sweet taste of milk and honey, ok, maybe just sweet.

Now- as for attenuation vs original gravity:  That OG is defined by
anything in the wort which will raise the density of the solution.  Only
the fermentable sugars 'disappear' lowering the gravity.  Now, again I'd
better get my texts, BUT if feeble memory serves only some sugars are
fermentable,  some can be converted by the yeast's exoenzymes into
fermentables, while others just flat out have the wrong number of carbons,
or carbon links, or extra groups that make them non-cleavable by yeast
enzymes.  Whereas another fungus or bacterium might be able to "walk" right
up and chomp on that very same sugar.
        Kinda analogous to cows being able to eat grass (and digest it! My
dogs on the other hand can eat it, but then they just like to puke it back
up) because of the bacteria in their tummies that can break the beta-1
links (?) in cellulose, while humanoids on earth don't have those enzymes
so we too puke up our grass after eating it (probably why many humans
perfer smoking their grass).  We are nevertheless, able to eat starches,
AND digest them. Now on Zorgon....


***
From: "Kevin McEnhill" <kevinm at kci.wayne.edu>
on the  ...  Subject: Kegging Stuff

>all I have is a picnic faucet, do I have
to take this thing apart every night to clean out the beer line. Is it
alright to leave the beer line full for a day or two.

*       No, and yes.  You can leave it attached, if you are flowing beer at
least once a day,(or several times..).  But if your climate is warm, or the
room is moldy, you might have problems.  My chrome taps stay cool due to
the fridge, but plastic...it don't conduct quite so much.  You can
dis-attach the end of the tap and clean the insides, but you'd do pretty
good for most purposes by flushing the taps when needed, once a week, more,
less....as needed.  Like our local bar....next to never?
You can set up a tank/ vessel of rinse solution and push it through the
line w/CO2,  or work with gravity.  I try to flush my lines when I go from
one batch to another. I have a beer-line cleaner and a hand-pump that
screws onto the taps and pushes solution through.  I also use it to double
as a party pump.

FWIW- I've found the chrome taps and the time spent to punch holes in my
fridge to be one of my best brew-stuff investments. It was about $50 for a
tap/shank setup with parts and all, but what a joy, to come home to a tall
pull tap of frothy heady homebrew.

***
From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at LILLY.COM>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 14:27:14 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Air Tap
        Anyone out there use the air pump for ball-lock kegs

*  Like above, part of a cleaner kit.  Same function.  Dif source...
As long as you plan on serving the whole thing, or finishing off a batch
started elsewhere, ya sure -go for it.   Else, if you wanna store it,
1. Don't shake it while it contains air.
2. Purge the air and replace with CO2 at the earliest possible time
3. Store cold while in contact with air.
4. Drink the rest of it pretty quick, w/in say a week, w/ cold storage.

I won't take up precious bw to explain and justify all these points.
Just trust me, its all right, I'm always right...(cough, sputter, gagh...bah)

***
From: bveq97 at puffs3-11.boeing.com (Mark Witherspoon)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:36:20 -0400
Subject: Early hops... Normal? When to pick...

>My hops due to the cool weather in our area are producing cones
early, like now.   Is this considered normal??
Next, how do I tell when they are ready?  It has been 2 years
since I have gotten anything from my vine.

*       When they turn from bright green to a lighter, yellower color, and
change from "sticky and cool" to "springy and papery" to the touch- you're
there!  Take some and cut them in half, observe- yellow crystals at the
base of the "petals" and lupulin you will have!  You can pick them at
different times as they become available, or go for the 'guess when the
best time is' and  get em all at once.  Don't wait for the sun to turn them
to crisp brittle specs.  Keep em well watered at this point, they'll be
begging for it. After picking you might be able to get by on less water,
but don't forget about them altogether.

I have burs now, and they are looking plentiful and plump.  It all depends
on how soon they get started, plus it would vary by your season, extra wet,
extra hot, extra sunny, anything might kick them into gear.  Stress can
even force a plant into "flowering mode" and senescence, also light changes
(photoperiod), color frequency, and even fertilizers.  You can switch from
a high nitrogen to a high phosphorus low nitrogen fertilizer for flowering
with some plants. Temperature both early in the season (breaking dormancy)
and later can affect development.

Just go for it, grab em when they look good. You are probably likely (if
like me) to get over anxious and pick to early, course if you aren't that
interested in them, and/or very otherwise busy you might wait too long,
even missing the harvest altogether.  :<

                        Babbles from the Coyote.

PS: Heading to S. Cal (Pasadena) for a week with the family.  Plan on
visiting some brewpubs.  If anyone has any "special" locations worth an
invite- drop me a line. TIA.

- --------------------------------------------
/// The Cosmic Coyote \\\ ccoyote at sunrem.com
- --------------------------------------------



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From: Kurt Schilling <kurt at pop.iquest.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 96 11:24 EST
Subject: Grolsch bottles, beer milkshakes, cane sugar

Howdy one and all!
Thanks to the following respondants for your suggestions on sanitizing
Grolsch bottles: Ken Schwarz, Denis Barsalo, Lawrence Smith, and Steve
Johnson. The conscensus seems to be santize the gaskets by either bioling
them seperately, or to use the dishwasher method to sanitize the entire
bottle and closure assembly. I'll look into trying the d/w method.

Robert Hatcher in HBD 2105 asked about beer milkshakes. Well, don't know
about a beer shake, but about 5-6 years ago Fred EckHard advanced the idea
of a Guinness Float. I tried it and liked it. I've used 2-3 scoops of a
French Vanilla Ice cream and a double fudge brownie in the glass, then pour
Guinness Pub Draft over it all. Yum! As the saying goes: Try it, you might
like it!

Aslo in HBD 2105, Dave Burley brought up the subject of using cane sugar
(sucrose) instead of corn sugar(dextrose) for priming beer. While I have't
been brewing quite as long as Dave (started in 1971), I started out using
good old C&H pure cane sugar to prime with. I normally use 1/2 cup per 5
gallons. My beers have always been sufficiently well carbonated.  I can't
say if they took longer or not to carbonate than corn sugar since I have
never used corn sugar.  My procedure has been to dissolve the sugar in about
a pint of beer and boil for 5-10 minutes to break the disaccharide bonds ,
cool and batch prime.  As I decant the primed beer, I do a case at a time,
placing a loose cap on each bottle , then go back and seal each bottle with
a capper. It usually takes me about an hour and a half to compelte two cases
and another 30 minutes to clean up. It works for me. YMMMV of course.

Kurt Schilling
kurt at iquest.net
Kurt


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From: danmcc at umich.edu (Daniel S. McConnell)
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 23:00:56 -0500
Subject: 1996 MCM results

Today the judges finished BoS.  All I can say is WOW, WOW, WOW.

The mead quality continues to improve with each year.  This year Braggot
made a quantum expansion in both quantity and quality.  The open/mixed
category was fun and loved by the judges.

All these meads are simply stunning, if not stunningly beautiful.

The most beautiful was Steve Dempsey's show mead.  It took Best of Show.
Congratulations!  Steve will recieve the Special Mazer, a bucket (#40) of
honey and (most likely) a slightly-used chiller.


CATEGORY    PLACE  MEADMAKER          MEAD
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
1-Show        1    Steve Dempsey      Batch #58
1-Show        2    Marie Verheyen     Thede Honey #46
1-Show        3    William Goslin     Golden Silk

2-Traditional 1    Ron Raike          Breakfast Mead #1
2-Traditional 2    Scott Mills        Mighty Fine Wine
2-Traditional 3    Robb Harris        Sack #2

3-Melomel     1    William Goslin     Logan is Diven
3-Melomel     2    Chuck Wettergreen  Booberry Mead
3-Melomel     3    Suzette Smith      8 Arms Ain't Enough B'berry Mead

4-Cyser       1    Mitch Gelly        Nibble 2 Cyser
4-Cyser       2    Chuck Wettergreen  Gould's Cyser
4-Cyser       3    Tom Nickel         Cyser Soze

5-Pyment      1    Paul Mozdzaik      Zinfandel Pyment
5-Pyment      2    Lane Locke         Shaggy Man Garnet
5-Pyment      3    Fred Hardy         Independence Pyment

6-Open/Mixed  1    Ed & Carol Wolfe   Nectar of the Gods
6-Open/Mixed  2    Vern Wolff         Vino De Meil Con Citrus
6-Open/Mixed  3    Keith Schwols      Hot to Trot

7-Metheglyn   1    Chris Feighly      Nameless
7-Metheglyn   2    James Wilis        Camomile Mead
7-Metheglyn   3    Suzette Smith      Liquid Enlightenment

8-Braggot     1    Fred Hardy         King Arthur's Own
8-Braggot     2    Fred Hardy         Bastille Brown
8-Braggot     3    Fred Hardy         Manor's Pride



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From: ccoyote at sunrem.com (John (The Coyote) Wyllie)
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 10:32:25 -0600
Subject: Yeast longevity /Hot Pots  

From: herron at wadsworth.org (Bruce Herron)
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:26:10 -0400
Subject: From sediment to next batch, a cautionary note

> A better way to go is to limit the carry
over of old yeast into the next batch by pulling a small amount of sediment
and doing a fresh starter which should be once again enriched for younger
yeast.
*  I agree fully, get them going again before pitching on them once more.
you have enzyme pathways that turn on and shut down at different stages of
life, so if you "wake" up the yeast cake with some fresh wort, you
reactivate all those "baby" enzymes used during the exponential/active
ferment- growth period.

> ...there is no way possible to control all of the variables to keep any
>biological system exactly the same, the best we hope for in the lab is a
>approximation of the first experiment,doing so in your kitchen will be
>ever harder.

*       If you want to use the same yeast for a long time, most certainly
the way to go is to make a stock culture for storage, then build up working
cultures for brewing.  From each working culture you can reuse the yeast
cake a number of times, say up to ten if you have good clean ferments (and
aren't making barleywines!).  But after some period of time you will have
mutation and genetic drift going from wort to wort.  So...when you feel
your yeast is getting pooped you go back to your stock culture and build up
a fresh starter.  That way you are way more likely to continue working with
the original genetic and biochemical properties you desire.
        A stock culture could be a starter in a canning jar fermented out
and stored cold (liquid), or other container of liquid culture. just let
the yeast settle out.  My personal preference is a solid culture for
storage.  Slants are very convenient and a lot less prone to contamination
that plates.  Wort with 1.5g/L of agar (or .75g/Lif you want it softer)
should suffice.  For the ultimate in long term storage, go for the frozen
storage approach.  But that can be more involved, and could even result in
mutation due to freeze/thaw effects.


Pat Babster.....sez  I sed.. <I have a> ..."refined sense of humor"....and
big brother swooping and stuff......Quirky maybe, but not refined...Anywho-
the above may not be funny, but it's at least almost semi near to true.
(some?)
***
From: "Ray Robert" <Ray_Robert at bah.com>
Date: 9 Jul 1996 15:07:46 U
Subject: thermal contraction problem?
>.... risk permanent damage to my new brew kettle, a converted SS Keg ...
>if I were to immerse it in an ice bath after a full boil?  ... I usually
>do the ice bath in conjunction an immersion chiller.

*       and then the Metal Man responds:
>From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
>... problem is the residual structural stresses and the differential
>cooling stresses....Might not happen...

*       Really?  I could see if you went from a red hot to a -70 dry
ice/EtOH bath, yeah maybe.  Fill it with a little (or a lot!) of liquid
nitrogen while you had in on full heat on the stove....but....

        yeah, ok I KNOW this happens with glass carboys (extracters
CAUTION!  Don't immerse glass carboys of hot wort in cool water- now THERE
is thermal shock- not to mention BREWER's shock!)  but with metal?  I
suppose there is a difference here from my situation.  I've got a 10gal
stainless and a 15gal alumimum cast pots, not a converted keg, so granted a
keg will have more seams etc to stress, but that metal should be pretty
darn tuff stuff!
        How bout this- make sure you have even "support"-   hot meets cool-
have the cold external water level equal or greater than the hot level
inside.  More even cooling that way, less soem hot, some cold to be
exerienced.  ????
        Anyone ever had any bad experiences to share?  I've chilled cheap
aluminum pots of hot wort in ice water, no problems.

- --------------------------------------------
/// The Cosmic Coyote \\\ ccoyote at sunrem.com
- --------------------------------------------



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