---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  depth filters (Kallen Jenne)
  Sweets (Pierre Jelenc)
  Re: Beer in Space (Dennis Cabell)
  re: Where to get beer in New Brunswick or PEI (CA) (jaf at jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca)
  Corn sugar priming (Domenick Venezia)
  HBD/Mash-Enzymes/Beer in Space/Heart of the Hops-Old Ads/ETOH Lemonade (Rob Moline)
  RE:Still more on drying hops. ((Sunny))
  Beer (what else ?) (Kevin McCune)
  Spacing on a Valley Mill ((Clark D. Ritchie))
  Re: Carboy Jackets & Aspirators (Barrowman at aol.com)
  South African Brewers !!!! ("Braam Greyling")
  Priming w/glucose (joe-sysop at cyberbury.net)
  Corn sugar, Split full boil ((George De Piro))
  Re: freezer compartment removal (Bill Rust)
  RE: Beer milkshakes ("Olson, Greger J - CI/911-2")
  Beer in spaaaace experiment (guym at Exabyte.COM)
  RE:  freezer compartment removal ("Decker, Robin E.")
  Alternate dispensers... (Carl Hattenburg)
  magical carbonation? (Gregory King)
  Priming with honey/N.VA. Brewers/Carboys (craig_hartsock at hq.dla.mil)
  wild hops ("Thomas K. Simacek")
  maltose syrup ((cc))

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OTHER HOMEBREW INFORMATION
  http://www.aob.org/aob - The AHA's web site.
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  info at aob.org - automated e-mail homebrewing information.

ARCHIVES:
  At ftp.stanford.edu in /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer via anonymous ftp.  Also
  http://alpha.rollanet.org on the web and at majordomo at aob.org by e-mail.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kallen Jenne <tirado at sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 23:04:44 -0700
Subject: depth filters

Does anyone have/know of a good do-it-yourself filter design?  I'm
leaning toward a depth filter as it leaves the color a bit richer
(according to miller)...

Kallen

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From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 96 12:01:25 EDT
Subject: Sweets

SJarr93801 at aol.com asks:

> I went back and  checked out the section on candi sugar in Pierre Rajotte's
> book on Belgian Ale and found it a little confusing.  He states on p. 65 that
> candi contains 99% sucrose.  On the next page, he discusses the use of brown
> sugar as a substitute for candi sugar but warns that it will have a different
> taste profile and it will not ferment like a mixture of dextrose and sucrose,
> infering that candi is something other than 99% sucrose.  So just what is
> candi sugar?  Is it crystalized invert sugar?  Brewing minds want to know...

Candi sugar is almost pure sucrose: it is the last stage of refining
before the common crystallized sugar. Brown sugar is either refined sugar
with some molasses added, or ("raw sugar") slightly less refined sucrose.

Invert sugar does not crystallize (it turns into a glassy mass with
microcrystals, at best).

 -------

ccoyote at sunrem.com (John (The Coyote) Wyllie) wonders:

> *  Sweet proteins?  I dunno???   (but do they smell fruity?)  Perhaps
> proteins with saccharide moities, but would that be due to the proteins
> themselves?

Sweet proteins, indeed. Starting with the dipeptide aspartame, of course,
but most notable the monellins from the tropical Serendipity Berry. These
dipeptides (about 100 aminoacids) are intensely sweet and carbohydrate-
free.

Not to be confused with miraculin from the Miracle Fruit, which makes sour
taste sweet but is not itself sweet. Artichokes also contain a similar
protein.

 -------

Kurt Schilling <kurt at pop.iquest.net> states:

>                     My procedure has been to dissolve the sugar in about
> a pint of beer and boil for 5-10 minutes to break the disaccharide bonds ,
> cool and batch prime.

A 10 minute boil in beer will not break the disaccharide bonds. Much too
short and far from being acidic enough. When making syrup one adds a
little lemon juice or vinegar to hydrolyse a tiny portion of the sucrose
in order to prevent crystallization; this produces a few percent at most
of glucose and fructose, but it is sufficient to inhibit the formation of
sucrose crystals. At the pH of beer it would take days to hydrolyse all
the sucrose.

Pierre

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From: Dennis Cabell <cabell at ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 13:32:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Beer in Space

Concerning the idea of spinning the fermentor in space to simulate
gravity.  I think we need to send a whole shuttle load of brewers
up at a time.  The multiple spinning fermentors could be configured
so that the forces all offset each other.  This way we could get
black & tan from space.
- --
Dennis Cabell
Sterling Heights, MI
cabell at ix.netcom.com

Return to table of contents


From: jaf at jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:07:05 -0300 (ADT)
Subject: re: Where to get beer in New Brunswick or PEI (CA)

Alex Flinsch <Sparrowhawk at worldnet.att.net> wrote
> Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at bmd.cpii.com> writes
>
> >Last year when we went to PEI we found the beer selection poor.  I think the
> >best we could get was Moosehead.  No micros of any sort. Not even a
> >Moosehaed (or other) specialty.
>
> Lucky you - you were able to buy beer...
> On my last trip (about 9 yrs ago) my buddy & I hit the border about 10
> minutes AFTER the provincial stores had closed on a Saturday night, they
> were closed all day Sunday, Monday was a holiday (Labor day) and they were
> closed again. We were finally able to buy some beer on Tuesday afternoon in
> Nova Scotia, before getting on the ferry back to Maine. Basically all we did
> was drive from NB to PEI and all the way back thru NS, a nice drive but no
> beer.....

This will still pretty much be the situation in PEI.  Bringing beer, wine
or spirits into PEI is strictly controlled.  Things may change after the
opening of the fixed link next year.

Since nine years ago, however, NB has changed somewhat.  In an effort to
raise revenue while decreasing costs, the NB government has introduced
a system allowing selected convenience stores in smaller communities
to sell beer, wine and spirits.  Interestingly enough, these stores do
not have to curtail the sale of alcohol on Sunday or holidays and can sell
whenever the store is open.  This means that in some smaller communities,
you can buy alcohol at times when you can not in the larger centres because
in the cities, sale of alcohol is through government stores only (except
of course, licensed restaurants, taverns or bars each being controlled by
its own set of legislation.)  From mid-June to December, however, the
province will allow one government store in each city to open on Sunday
and holidays for restricted hours as a concession to the tourists.

At this time, there is a micro-brewery in Fredericton, Picaroons, which
has been in operation for about a year but very recently opened its own
retail outlet (a rooftop patio and indoor tap room.)  Picaroons will
offer brewery tours (call 1-506-455-ALES.) and specializes in seasonal
beers.  Looking at the ad in yesterday's paper, I see Timber Hog Stout
being the featured beer of the day.  Picaroons in located on Piper's Lane,
a pedestrian walkway between Queen and King streets in the block between
York and Westmorland.

The main problem with alcohol purchases in NB and PEI is price.  Even
after you discount for the price being in Canadian funds, the amount of
taxes makes the price prohibitive.  A 473ml bottle of Grolsch will run
about $2.80 and I am not sure what the domestic beers would set me back
these days.
- --
O- J. Anthony Fitzgerald, jaf at UNB.ca, http://www.unb.ca/web/CSD/staff/jaf/ -O

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From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:20:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Corn sugar priming

>From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
>
>Speaking of dogma, I have recently been trying to use corn sugar to prime
>my brews.  I must admit I am very disappointed with the results, so far.
> ...
>Well, I don't have parallel comparisons, but my sense is that 1) glucose
>is slower than sucrose by a substantial margin 2) 3/4 of a cup is not
>enough. 3/4 cup, the generally recommended amount , is about 5 oz, half of
>the amount of sucrose I normally use.
> ...
>I saw a post here about the fact that introducing glucose into a ferment
>that had switched over to maltose as a foood source would shut the whole
>thing down ...

To get an equivalent amount of glucose molecules you need about the same
amount of corn sugar as sucrose (see below).  This means that if you used
half the amount of corn sugar that you usually use of sucrose then you
were using about 1/2 the number of monosaccharide molecules than usual.

Maltose is a disaccharide composed of 2 glucose molecules.  The use of
maltose as a food source first entails getting the maltose into the cell,
then maltase (an enzyme) breaks the alpha-1,4 bonds between the 2 glucose
molecules.  The resulting 2 glucose molecules are then metabolized in the
glycolysis pathway.  This means that during maltose fermentation the
glucose pathways are fully active and I don't see how adding glucose could
cause the yeast to stall in such a situation.  To the contrary I would
think that adding glucose (corn sugar) to a maltose fermentation would
cause the yeast to ignore the maltose until the newly available glucose
was used up.  Which is basically the Crabtree effect.

In the case of sucrose, which is a disaccharide composed of a molecule of
glucose and a molecule of fructose, not only does the sucrose get split
but the fructose part is converted enzymatically to glucose and then
metabolized in the glycolysis pathway.  Since the metabolism of sucrose
involves the additional conversion of fructose to glucose I don't see how
it could be more efficient for priming than corn sugar.  And again, I
doubt that a fermentation would be stalled by the addition of corn
sugar.

In my long-winded way what I am saying is that I think glucose metabolism
is never inhibited by other sugars and I doubt the use of corn sugar is
causing a fermentative stall and causing your priming problems.

> Does anyone weigh their corn sugar? How much is enough?

Yes, I typically use 80 grams for a 5 gallon batch, but I tend to like
my brews more lightly carbonated than others, so perhaps 100-120 grams
would be more generally acceptable.  The corn sugar that I have is about
80 grams per 1/2 cup.

Speculations on the source of your problem:

Not enough viable yeast making it into the bottles.
Not enough corn sugar.  Measure it by weight.  (28 grams/ounce)
Low temperature during conditioning.
Space/time warp shunting carbonation into the gamma quadrant.

Here is a way to test the "efficiency" of priming with glucose versus
sucrose.  We are looking to generate the same number of monosaccharide
molecules (glucose + fructose from sucrose) as glucose from corn sugar.
The molecular weight in grams of any substance contains the same number
of moelcules (Avogadro's number, ~6 x 10**23).

Mol wt of glucose  = 180.16 grams
Mol wt of fructose = 180.16 grams
Mol wt of sucrose  = 342.30 grams

sucrose/glucose ratio = (342.30/180.16)/2 = 1.9/2 = 0.95

So, split a batch of beer in half and prime one half with corn sugar
(glucose) and one half with cane sugar (sucrose) using 95% of the weight
of sucrose as glucose.  For example, if you use 100 grams of glucose use
95 grams of sucrose.  Mark and store the bottles under identical
conditions and pop one of each every few days and check on the carbonation
level.

If you do this please report your results back to the HBD.

Domenick Venezia
Computer Resources
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com




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From: Rob Moline <brewer at kansas.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:13:00 -0500
Subject: HBD/Mash-Enzymes/Beer in Space/Heart of the Hops-Old Ads/ETOH Lemonade

        THE JETHRO (HOPHEAD) GUMP REPORT
HBD Length- A self limiting disease....as recently commented on, lengths
will vary, as time goes on...

Mash/Enzymes- Jethro mashes in at 152-155, dependent upon batch style,
weight of grain bill and ambient temperature, (Jethro's brewery gets VERY
hot in summer and VERY cold in winter)...shooting for 142-145 1st runnings
temp...this for 7BBL, insulated tun, 90 min mash, grain into strike h2o...It
works for me...Now, return to your regularly scheduled brawl...

        Just had to prove that fella right about 'last posts'..;-)

Beer in Space- I love this thread...an excellent mental diversion..and
Jethro appreciates these, being 'mental as anything'...Tim Kelsey- You the man!

Heart of the Hops- Was doing a regularly scheduled search and destroy of the
local antiques shops yesterday and came across some old print ads for
beer... I am in the habit of decorating the bar with old beer stuff, and
intend to frame these....Back in 1943 and 46, Schlitz promotions included
the angle, "The Kiss of the Hops"
        1943- "Each day drom factory, field and office there comes a tired
army that needs to step aside from the tumult of the times. This home front
army finds relief from tension in the neighborly talk and simple pastimes
that have helped to make our country great. These hours of relaxation become
happier, more content with a glass of friendly Schlitz ...brewd with just
the kiss of the hops, none of the bitterness."
        "Like a Melody...No Bitterness...Just the Kiss of the Hops....-all
of the delicate hop flavor-none of the bitterness. That famous flavor found
only in Schlitz is in tune with American taste. Once you drink America's
most distinguished beer you'll never go back to a bitter brew."
                Copyright 1943, Jos. Schlitz Brewing Co., Milwaukee, Wis.
Top 1/8 page with a sepia toned image of a croquet game....main image blond
female violinist.

        1946-2 page spread.."Just the kiss of the hops, not the harsh
bitterness"...'The beer that made Milwaukee Famous"...
        C-1946, Image left side, beautiful brunette puckering up to a hop
cone...right side of image, the Schlitz logo, a bottle and glass of Schlitz
on a silver tray.

        Moral of the Story..the more things change, the more they stay the
same...at least in this instance!

Other cool ads, children in beer ads, and other politically incorrect images...
1946, a barefoot boy, proudly prancing dog along side, as he walks past 2
older catchless fishermen, while he whistles past with a big one on the end
of his catch line...........
And 1956.. Night gowned young bride, high heels, being lifted over the back
of a sofa by business clothed husband, 2 church-keyed cans of Bud, pilsner
glasses full, cheese, crackers on a silver tray...."What a kiss I got that
Night!.....My husband was frantic when he came home from work that night. He
had forgotten that this was the night that the boys were coming over for
poker. But I hadn't. There was plenty of cold Budweiser in the refrigerator
to go along with my snacks. When they'd gone, he said, "Even the ones who
lost had a good time...thanks to the good things to eat, the Budweiser and
your good memory." (Actually, Budweiser reminded me, when I saw it at the
store. When I see Bud, I thimk of hospitality....letting people know you
think enough of them to serve the best.)"..."Where there's Life...There's Bud!"
        Copyright A-B, May, 1956.

But the Best Scores!!- Sheet music...Copyright 1903..Harry von Tilzer..

                "Under the Anheuser Bush."
        "Talk about the shade of the sheltering palms,
        Praise the bamboo tree and it's wide spreading charms,
        There's a little Bush that grows right here in town,
        You know it's name, it has won such renown,
        Often with my sweetheart just after the play,
        To this little place then my footsteps will stray,
        If she hesitates when she looks at the sign,
        Softly I whisper, "Now, Sue, don't decline."
chorus- "Come, come, make eyes with me,
        under the Anheuser Bush,
        Come, come, drink some "Budwise" with me,
        Under the Anheuser Bush".....

Sheet Music..Copyright A-B, 1954..

                "Budweiser Victory March".....Fabick/Menges...
        "Let's sing a song to the king of fine beers,
        Let's give Budweiser three rousing cheers!
        Let's toast the beer so amber and light,
        It's past so grand, It's future so bright.
Ch.     Can we do it" You bet we can! (You bet we can!)
        Can we do it? You bet we can! (You bet we can!)
        Can the eagle stay in the lead? (Stay in the lead?)
        You bet it will! (You bet it will!) Darn right it will!
Shout.  RAH! RAH!
        Greatest Beer in all history, (all history),
        Brightest star of the industry: (star of the industry)
        We'll fight to hold the lead we've won
        You bet we will, (You bet we will),
        Darn right we will."

Anyway If you think I'm wasting your bandwidth, tell me to push off, but
just like Jethro likes a diversion...I felt a DEFINITE need for one in the HBD!

Alcoholic Lemonade-
        Modern Brewery Age, June 24, 96 reports on Minnesota Brewing
launching an alcoholic lemonade, "Yellow Belly." BATF just approved the
application. The same journal reports, July 1, 96, Miller is bringing out
"Wiley's Twisted Lemon Alcohol Drink,"  and the fellas who import Bass to
the US, Ten Star, are bring out "Hooper's Hooch,' and "Two Dogs Alcoholic
Lemonade."  Sounds like 4 dogs to me...what's next? "Jim Jone's Alcoholic
Kool-Aid (TM), with just that hint of REAL Cyanide!" I guess in a post ZIMA
world, when the crafts are gaining share at the expense of your own
declines, you reach for that handy weapon, MASS-MARKETING... (but ya gotta
give em their do, they will probably make out like bandits on this!)
        At least we know what the Coyote has been up to during his
protracted absence! Working for Miller on the side, eh?  ;-)

(All use of copyrighted material is purely for educational purposes)

Cheers!
Jethro (Hophead) Gump

Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas

"The more I know about beer, the more I realize I need to know more about 
beer!"
       "Can I have another piece of chocolate cake?"
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas

"The more I know about beer, the more I realize I need to know more about 
beer!"


Return to table of contents


From: sun at swcp.com (Sunny)
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 16:25:10 -0600
Subject: RE:Still more on drying hops.

>  FWIW, a suggestion on drying hops.  "Way back in olden days" I occasionally
>grew a plant or two that were related to hops*.  When I wanted to dry some of
>this substance in a hurry, I'd spread it on a paper towel and put it in the
>microwave along with a coffee cup of water (since I'd heard operating the 
nuker
>"empty" was a Bad Thing).
> My experience was that, um, plant material dried in this manner retained much

>more of it's aroma/flavor (but not "mouthfeel" ;-) than identical material
>dried on screens or in direct sunlight. Anyway, I can testify that a microwave

>does a darn-fine job of drying "plant stuff" in short order.  Hops, of course,
>don't seem to grow here in The Great Stinking Desert I call home, so don't
>expect further reports from moi...  HTH
>Steve

    I have dried "herbal" matter in my past.  The best flavor after drying
seemed to occur when I have dried the matter slowly.  This allows for
somewhat of a curing process.  Typically I would place a single layer of
herbs in the bottom of a large paper grocery sack and folded the top over
and closed.  It would take about a week for it to dry and the resulting
"cured herbs" tasted significantly better than the the stuff I dried much
more quickly i.e., microwave, oven, hanging in open room.  I wonder if
curing would significantly improve the flavor of hops?

                        --Sunny



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From: Kevin McCune <kmccune at win.bright.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:37:06 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Beer (what else ?)

Hi, I'm a pro. HBD lurker, but I just got home from Milwaukee,(friend got her
Masters Deg. Allright Dana!!). But any hoo, the party was at "The Water Street
Brewery"  in down town Milwaukee. Awsome Wheat,great Pils,unbelievable Bitter
and Octoberfest to Die for.  If this makes no sense to you, I'll spell it out
(oh great, spelling, mi beast subjekt!!!) Go there if in Milwaukee.(and no,
I do not have any connections ect... Shoot!)

                     Hey I'm a pro. Can I make money Lurking?!?!?! ;^)
                     Kevin


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From: ritchie at wnstar.com (Clark D. Ritchie)
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 20:34:03 -0700
Subject: Spacing on a Valley Mill

Does anyone know the spacing information for the different adjustments on a
Valley Mill?  (I.E. how far apart are the rollers when the knob is set at
position #1, #2, etc.).  Private email is good, thanks... CDR
________________________________________________________________________
Clark D. Ritchie, ritchie at wnstar.com      http://www.wnstar.com/ritchie/

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From: Barrowman at aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 07:23:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Carboy Jackets & Aspirators

I keep reading questions from brewers who want to insulate their fermentation
vessels. I would only reccomend this if you want to keep it warm.
Fermentation (especially primary) produces a lot of heat and insulation would
cause your brew to retain this heat. FYI I found a great idea for a cooled
fermentation chamber on the web at http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/labcab.html.
Cudos to Ken Schwartz for sharing such a great idea.

I have a question about using an aspirator to start a siphon. I ran across
this idea in an old issue of Zyrmurgy and am curious to know if anyone has
tried this. I do recall using an aspirator in chem labs and it was very easy.
Siphoning is such a PIA!

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From: "Braam Greyling" <acg at knersus.nanoteq.co.za>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 14:23:03 +200
Subject: South African Brewers !!!!

Hello HOMEBREWERS

I am sorry if I waste bandwidth. What I ask here is really for the
sake of homebrewing.

South Africa has a small homebrew community.
I am trying to put together a list of everybody and every thing
related to South African homebrewing.
We really need to know about each other. This can make our hobbie
easier and could get more people interested in homebrewing.

If you are a homebrewer or have any related stuff to
homebrewing  and live in SOUTHERN AFRICA
please fill in this form and e-mail it to me DIRECTLY.

acg at nanoteq.co.za

Do NOT send it to the Digest please. I allready waste a lot of
bandwidth.
Also tell me about everybody that you know of that does not have
e-mail.  I really want to get everybody together.

Fill inside brackets []
=============================================================================

NAME:
[*********************]

E-MAIL:
[*********************]

POSTAL ADDRESS:
[*********************]

STREET ADDRESS:
[*********************]

TEL
H[***with code***]
W[***with code***]

ARE YOU AN ACTIVE BREWER ? [Y/N]

IF NOT, WHAT ARE YOUR INTERESTS IN BEER AND BREWING ?
[*********************]

DO YOU BREW FROM ? [KITS,MALT EXTRACTS,GRAINS]

DO YOU BELONG TO A CLUB/SOCIETY ? [Y/N]
[NAME AND ADDRESS OF CLUB]

WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR INGREDIENTS ?
[*********************]

CAN YOU SUPPLY INGREDIENTS AND EQUIPMENT ?[Y/N]
IF YOU CAN SUPPLY, WHAT CAN YOU SUPPLY ?
[*********************]

WOULD YOU LIKE TO RECEIVE THIS DATABASE VIA E-MAIL?[Y/N]

ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR INFORMATION
[*********************]


=============================================================================
Braam Greyling           I.C. Design Engineer
Nanoteq (Pty) Ltd        tel. +27 (12) 665-1338
- ---- 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case ----
- ----     coincidence ?????                 ----

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From: joe-sysop at cyberbury.net
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 06:36:25 -0600
Subject: Priming w/glucose

   >Speaking of dogma, I have recently been trying to use corn sugar to
   >prime my brews.  I must admit I am very disappointed with the
   >results, so far.  For many years, I used sucrose at the rate of 10
   >Dave Burley

Hey Dave;
        I can't speak to any technical aspects, but I use 3/4 cup
glucose per 4-gal. batch. I find it's just about right. I've used
cane sugar when I had forgotten that I was out. I noticed no
difference. Perhaps there's another variable at work here?

Joe Labeck              joe-sysop at cyberbury.net
"That's LA-beck, not la-BECK."

`[1;31;46mNet-Tamer V 1.04 - Registered



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From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:05:18 -0700
Subject: Corn sugar, Split full boil

     Bill responds to Dave that corn sugar is only 70-80% fermentable.
     That is not correct.  Corn sugar is glucose and is 100% fermentable.

     Dave says that his beers are underprimed when using 3/4 cup corn sugar
     (per 5 gallons, I assume).  I've never had a problem using that rate,
     nor has anyone else that I know.  Is your carbonation (or lack
     thereof) consistent from bottle to bottle?  Are you making high
     gravity beers that may be undercarbonated because of tired yeast?

     It is more accurate to measure sugar by volume in the absence of
     moisture analysis, especially in New York this time of year! (although
     the differences will be small).

     Jim Booth says that he splits his boil between two pots.  I thought
     this was fine until I read on to where he said that he starts one when
     it is full and continues to collect runoff in the second.

     That means that your boiling a high gravity wort and a low gravity
     wort.  Which one do you hop?  The gravity will definitely affect your
     utilization, but you've probably taken that into  account.

     Why not buy an eight gallon enamel pot for ~$40?  It fits over two
     burners and you can dispense with fancy plumbing for wort chillers.

     I use a 1/4 keg (Sankey type) with the top cut out and a nipple welded
     to the bottom for a spigot for 5-6 gallon batches.  They're cheaply
     available and it is great to use a counterflow chiller with the
     spigot.  I can whirlpool in the boiler to remove hot break and hop
     debris.

     Have fun!

     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

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From: Bill Rust <wrust at csc.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 96 09:49 EDT
Subject: Re: freezer compartment removal

Good morning folks.

Jerry Cunningham <gcunning at census.gov> writes:
>                                                                     Can
>anybody tell me how/if I can yank out the freezer compartment? It's pretty
>worthless to me, it builds up major frost, freezes portions of the beer
>line, etc.

I have a Westinghouse round top with a small cubish freezer at the top of
the main (only) compartment.  It *can't* be removed as far as I know,
because the freon lines run right thru the walls the freezer itself.  You
may want to check yours just to make sure you don't have the same feature.

Jon Grow <beeressn at hic.net> writes:
>The Ales Are Us brew club in Houston has changed it's name. Please note the
>new name is Deja Brew Homebrew Club. Thank you.
I have the inexplicable feeling that I've that name somewhere before...

Skol.

 ------------------------------------------------------
 Bill Rust, Master Brewer |
 Jack Pine Savage Brewery | CENOSILICAPHOBIA
 Established 1985  (NACE) | The fear of an empty glass.
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From: "Olson, Greger J - CI/911-2" <gjolson at bpa.gov>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 96 09:00:00 PDT
Subject: RE: Beer milkshakes

>From: Robert Hatcher <rhatcher at freenet.tlh.fl.us>
>Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 10:39:47 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: Beer milkshakes

I haven't encountered beer Milkshakes, but McMenamins Edgefield in
Troutdale, OR sells a (Terminator) Stout Float.

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From: guym at Exabyte.COM
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 96 11:58:46 MDT
Subject: Beer in spaaaace experiment

     Considering the bandwidth that has recently been spent on this subject
     which, I'm sure, is near and dear to all of our hearts, I thought I would
     unselfishly attempt an experiment to help verify the theories put forth
     here.  Since my wife and I are flying to Maui at the end of next week and
     since I had a batch of CherryDunkel in the fermenter, I thought this would
     be a perfect opportunity to set up the experiment.  We will be in an
     aircraft spending a great deal of time over the ocean, but the people at
     Delta seem to have a problem with flying parabolic arcs for me over the
Pacific. They are also not too thrilled with my plan to bring 5 gallons of     

     fermenting beer aboard.  Undaunted, I did the next best thing.

     I inserted a racking cane through the stopper in my carboy into the
approximate center of the fermenting liquid and affixed an airlock. I then     

     hauled the carboy to the roof of my house (damn those steep Cape Cod
     roofs!) and stationed my wife near its projected impact point.  Then, to
     simulate the micro G environment, I dropped the sucker off the roof.  My
     wife says that the airlock was bubbling furiously as the carboy raced by
     her so the CO2 bubble in the center seems plausible.  However, this
     literally ground (and carboy!) breaking experiment ends sadly.  When the
     carboy impacted the earth, it shattered sending partially fermented beer
     all over my wife, the ground, and the surrounding plant life.  The ground
was so dry that it sucked up all the beer before I could climb down so none    

     is available for in depth analysis of how this brief period at near zero G
     affected the ferment.  A pity.

     My conclusion is that there is little to no practical application of this
     particular discussion to brewing here on earth, save for allowing us to
     whip out our Theoretical Intellects and see who's is bigger.  Of course,
there is one factor I forgot to take into account - the amount of time this    

     particular mash spent at 158 F.

     The mind boggles...

     --
     Guy McConnell /// Huntersville, NC /// guym at exabyte.com
     "And the beer I had for breakfast wasn't bad, so I had one for dessert."


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From: "Decker, Robin E." <robind at rmtgvl.rmtinc.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 96 12:46:00 -0500
Subject: RE:  freezer compartment removal

Jerry writes:
>can hold one pin-lock keg and a 5 lb. co2 bottle, plus a coupla bottles of
yeast.
>Space is kinda tight.

I can't help you with your actual question, Jerry, but you don't _have_ to
keep the CO2 inside the fridge.  you can drill a hole in the side to run the
hose through.  We're getting ready to set up our beer fridge this way, after
seeing how wonderfully its working for a buddy of ours....he has room for 3
kegs since he moved the CO2 outside.

good luck!

Goldings
"I have to get off this planet!"

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From: Carl Hattenburg <CHattenburg at Perstorp-us.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:17:25 -0400
Subject: Alternate dispensers...

Anybody out there have any experience with either the "Party Pig" (2.5
gal) or "Medicine Rock Keg System" (2.5 or 5 gal). I think the Party Pig
takes CO2, while the Rock is a hand pump.....

- - Carlos, HattenBrews for youze!

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From: Gregory King <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:46:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: magical carbonation?

Greetings HBDers,

There is some interesting stuff in the book "Brew Your Own Real Ale at Home"
by Wheeler and Protz besides all of the British ale recipes.

For instance, they recommend that all ales (even those batches that will
be bottled) be matured in barrels after secondary fermentation.  Maturation
times range from a couple of weeks to a year or more, depending on the type
of ale.  Their reasoning is that this extra time allows the beer to clarify
even further, and that some of the harsher aromas are given a chance to vent.

Do any of you follow this practice?  Would an extended period in the
secondary fermenter accomplish the same thing?  Does the extra maturation
time really make a difference?

The authors also state that although priming the ale prior to bottling will
produce carbonation quickly, it is not necessary(!), as CO2 will be produced
by the slow fermentation of the residual dextrins in the ale over a several-
month period.

I'm wondering if any of you have had the patience to try bottling without
priming, and then waiting for this (magical?) carbonation.

Curiously,

Greg King
gking at arserrc.gov


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From: craig_hartsock at hq.dla.mil
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 96 14:07:02 EST
Subject: Priming with honey/N.VA. Brewers/Carboys

     I have only a few questions for the HBD Collective.

     1.  I have brewed a five gallon batch of a honey amber ale.  I racked
     it into a cornelious keg on Sunday.  I would like to prime it with
     honey, Orange Blossom Honey to be exact.
         The yield after numerous carboy transfers was a little over 4
     gallons.

     2.  I currently live in Arlington Va and have just started all-grain
     brewing.  I am in search of other frugal brewers who would like to go
     in on a few different 50lb. sacks of grain and possibly other
     supplies.  If there are enough people that respond I think it would be
     easy to get it at wholesale prices.

     3.  In a long quest to find a keg like container that would fit in my
     fridge a friend came upon the idea of taking a 3 gallon glass carboy,
     putting a siphoning cap on it, then put a racking cane down one side
     of the cap with a siphoning hose fitted with a plastic tap head
     attached, then hook the other side of the siphoning cap up to a CO2
     tank via more siphoning hose, crank up to 5psi and you're ready to go.
     ---My concern is the amount of pressure a regular glass carboy can
     take.  I force carbonated a stout and about 30psi before it even
     registered that the carboy could explode with me in front of the
     fridge and then in the hospital for months for reconstructive surgery.
     Does anyone know if there are any pressure ratings for glass carboys?

     I would be grateful to receive private responses to #2, and any
     response to 1 and 3.

     Wearing protective clothing anytime I go for food,
           Craig

     E-Mail: Craig_Hartsock at HQ.DLA.MIL


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From: "Thomas K. Simacek" <c22tks at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:55:44 -0400 (CDT)
Subject: wild hops

>Has anyone here ever experimented with wild hops?  (Or heard of anyone
>who has?)  I have heard these referred to as "humulus americanus," but
>don't know if that's an accurate moniker or not.

>In any event, I have access to a virtually unlimited quantity of these,
>but I'm reluctant to put my other ingredients to risk, although I might
>consider 1- or 2-gallon batches.

I am not sure what your hops are - if they are cultivated hops going wild,
maybe they are usefull.
Main problem with wild hops is that they may contain male plants
which polinate the female plants used in brewing.
Polinated hops grow to seeds and are quite useless (at least I was told
so). So the male plants are destroyed in commercial planting.
I have lived in central Europe where wild hops are commonplace - they are
supposedly native from there - and the abundance of male plants rendered wild
hops useless. It also made the comercial plantators  go out of their way to
destroy any possible wild hops around their fields.
I am not a hop expert, take it on its 2c worth.

Tom Simacek

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From: spiralc at ix.netcom.com (cc)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 11:58:07 -0700
Subject: maltose syrup

Re: Maltose Syrup

Back in HBD 2097, Al wrote

>>Greg King asked about maltose syrup, as recommended by Graham
Wheeler.
>Liz Blades recommended LME or barley syrup as a substitute.
>
>I agree with Liz since what we want is something that's about 75%
>fermentable.

Actually, you want something higher than 75% fermentable.  Wheeler
states that the syrups he refers to
"contain about 20% non-fermenable sugars."

This is also supported from the context of Wheelers use of maltose
syrup.  The Wheeler-Protz book, "Brew
Your Own Real Ale at Home," contains recipes based on the information
in the Protz book, "The Real Ale
Almanac."  Some of the recipes add maltose syrup where none is listed
as an ingrediant in the Almanac.
Wheeler explains that these are instances where his brewing software
indicated that the end ABV could not
be achieved from the stated OG if only the listed grains were used.  He
states that some English brewers are
reluctant to admit to the use of sugar syrups. He implies that one such
case is Ringwood's "Old Thumper"
where no syrup is listed in the Almanac. Wheeler's recipe calls for 4%
maltose syrup. The OG is listed at
1.058 and the ABV is listed at 5.9%, The Almanac lists the the ABV of
Old Thumper at 5.8%.


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