Homebrew Digest Wednesday, 14 August 1996 Number 2146
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
All the Time in the World (korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com)
Treatise on Stovetop brewing ("William D. Knudson")
Re: Heat diffusers (lheavner at tcmail.frco.com)
Re: recipe formulation (Edward J. Steinkamp)
Help with a receipe ("Eric S. Torigian")
Roast vs Toast vs Kilned / Wyeast 1968 ((Charles Burns))
maltmill motorizing ((Mike Spinelli))
Secondaries/Koelsch (korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com)
Fruit Juice in beer (joe-sysop at cyberbury.net)
molasses in porter (joe-sysop at cyberbury.net)
filter Nokomaree (tapp at usit.net)
My Post Re: Al and Truth (Michael Gerholdt)
Hopping Concentrated Extract Brews / Infected Keg / ScotOberfest (KennyEddy at aol.com)
One-Gallon Kegs on the Cheap (KennyEddy at aol.com)
Igloo Coolers (Mark Warrington)
Rings in my beer ((nkanous))
Hops ID Help ("Toler, Duffy L.")
Dishwashers and Bottles ((Richard Moore))
Corny Keg Sanitation (Mike Galvez)
Re: Dishwashers and Bottles (Kent Fritz)
RE: When To Harvest ((Clark D. Ritchie))
Religious Bigot!! (Guy McConnell)
Really hot stove deal! ("Ken Smith")
Sulfur Dioxide, Getting to know you, ("David R. Burley")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 13:18:37 CDT
Subject: All the Time in the World
Ok, if I'm going to be picky with others, I should be so with my
own posts too... I wrote:
>All the time in the world will not reduce the amount
>of dissolved CO2 in the beer at a given temperature.
Well, assuming your airlock doesn't dry out, if you waited many years
the concentration of the CO2 in the beer would equalize with that in
the atmosphere. Even if there were no leaks between the carboy and
stopper, the concentrations of CO2 in the beer/headspace would come
to equalibrium with those in the airlock liquid which would eventually
diffuse into the air... it would take a long time, though.
For all *practical* purposes however, this statement is true:
>Yes, more CO2
>may bubble out in the secondary, but that's only because of fermentation,
>rise in temperature during racking or agitation during racking.
Al.
Return to table of contents
From: "William D. Knudson" <71764.203 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 13 Aug 96 15:04:51 EDT
Subject: Treatise on Stovetop brewing
Dave Greenlee asked about stovetop issues.
I tried the copper idea a couple of years ago. I think it was copper flashing.
It was a waste of money. The copper gets wavy or curly with the heat. The heat
transfer was dismal.
There is a cheap 5 gal made in Taiwanese pot commonly sold in brew shops (~$30)
Its a thin bottomed pot, not great. I think its hard to brew even extract
batches with a volume lower than 5 gal.
If its scorching that concerns you get a different pot. If you have any 'outlet
stores' in your area, Revereware sells a 5 gal pot - SS w/ copper bottom for
~$70. Not cheap.
If you are concerned about burning out elements, just alternate the pot to a
different burner every 30 min or so and skip the diffusers. This is one of the
hottest tips that I've gotten from HDB!! No pun.
I cook on my electric stove now with full volume 5 gal batches in a 15 gal pot
(Polarware) over two burners (Sounds crazy don't it?)
In terms of other stove issues, Rule #1 don't have boilovers. Larger volume pot
helps here. Boilovers occur at the beg of a boil and right after hop additions,
otherwise I don't have to monitor.
Rule #2 clean the stove *before* you brew. I have found that Windex on an
otherwise clean looking stovetop before the brew session minimizes the post
brew
stovetop mess.
Rules #1 and #2 are very important in preserving one's marriage.
A Viking or Wolf gas stove is definitely on my wish list, where is that damn
lotto ticket!
Hope this helps.
Bill
Return to table of contents
From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 13:21:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Heat diffusers
------------------------------
Dave Greenlee <daveg at mail.airmail.net> asks about heat diffusers for
his thin bottomed boiler.
Would a WOK ring work? Bet you could find one cheap in a garage sale,
if you don't already have one. I am forced to use an electric burner
in my current brewing location. I am careful to get a vigorous boil
while avoiding hot spots, but now that I think of it, a WOK ring would
probably be very helpful! I use a 28 Qt enamel pot for my boiler. It
laps way over the large burner, but doesn't quite cover 2 adjacent
burners. I just use the large burner. So far, no problems. After
reading HBD for a while though, I do try to use as much water as
possible in the boil for extract batches. Not quite a full boil, maybe
3 gal water.
Lou Heavner
Heavy's Habanero Homebrewery
<lheavner at frmail.frco.com>
Return to table of contents
From: Edward J. Steinkamp <ejs0742 at dop.fse.ca.boeing.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 12:43:24 PDT
Subject: Re: recipe formulation
On the subject of recipe sharing and formulation:
Last year was asked to duplicate Pilsener Urquel by a Chech
friend of mine. I began to research recipe formulation and
found that using "Recipe Formulation Calculations for Brewers"
from the Jan/Feb 1994 Brewing Techniques and the "Treasury of
Beer Styles" from the special 1991 issue of Zymurgy, recipe
formulation wasn't all that difficult. I created a spread sheet
on excel so it was easy to play around with the variables, and
get a feel for how each ingredient affected color, bittering, and
target gravity. Since then, the quality of my beer has improved
significantly, because I am aware of how each step of the process,
and each ingredient will affect the finished beer.
Recipe formulation forces you to think about each step of the
process and how it affects the final product, however, it is not
for the beginning, or even intermediate brewer. These people
already have too much to think about just trying to make beer
that isn't slug-bait. When an intermediate brewer reaches a
state of confidence in his/her knowledge of the process of
brewing, when the brewer is getting bored brewing the same types
of beers repeatedly, when the brewer realizes they know how to
brew, but not why they do certain things, then it's time to learn
recipe formulation.
Sharing is a social art. Brewing for me is a hobby which is
mostly social. I like to brew with friends and I like to drink
with friends. I find it quite rewarding when people enjoy my
beer, and even more rewarding when people ask for help (i.e.
recipes) in brewing their own beer. For those of use who have
brewed for a while, know what we are doing, can formulate
recipes, and are not planning on opening a micro-brewery, I
don't see the point in hoarding recipes.
Just my opinion
Ed
Return to table of contents
From: "Eric S. Torigian" <etorigia at tir.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 15:49:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Help with a receipe
Hello Fellow Home brewers. I am an intermediate brewer who would like to
send out a request for suggestions on a new twist to my favorite brew.
Here's the Receipe, Thanks in advance.......
Trail Head Brewery
Sonoma Valley Red
1 lb Crystal 40L
2 lb Belgian Munich
3 lb Muntons Amber DME
3 lb Muntons Light DME
2 oz 4.9% Willamette (60 Mins)
1 oz 2.7% Hallertau (last 2 mins boil & Wort Cooling time)
Wyeast American Ale
Process
- -------
Steep Grain in 1 1/2 Gallon cold water
When water boils remove grain and add DME & Hops
Return to boil for 60 mins
add finishing hops and cool wort
Pitch at 78 Degrees
Eric S. Torigian
etorigia at tir.com
Return to table of contents
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 13:08 PDT
Subject: Roast vs Toast vs Kilned / Wyeast 1968
Al writes:
Don writes in his mystery recipe:
>4 lb Victory or Dark Munich
These are two very different malts and I don't want anyone to get the idea
they are equivalent. Dark Munich is made by kilning green malt at a higher
temperature than that used for Pils, Pale Ale, Vienna or (presumably) lighter
Munich malts. Victory is made similarly to DeWolf-Cosysns Biscuit. They
are made by taking a normally-kilned malt like Pilsner and then roasting it
lightly at high temperatures. The resulting flavours are quite different,
the Victory and Biscuit having a toasty flavour with some similarty to bread
crust.
<snip>
Al.
Could we have a little glossary lesson here? What's the difference between
roasting, toasting and kilning? No slaming my intelligence please, remember
the only dumb question is the one not asked.
========================================================
Kit writes:
>
>Hi, Ted. Being a natural born science major, I went and bought a new pouch
of Wyeast and put it in a 1/2 gal starter after activating. It has taken a
week, but is not clearing. The fermnentation is not nearly as vigorous.
>
> So..... The culture Wyeast is now selling is not the same as they had
originally. I still have a slant of that. I'll be interested to taste any
difference. It acts a lot different than BrewTek's wit and saison as well as
Yeast Labs and GW Kent. I have a slant of Celis from a micro lab in Texas
and it is the same as BrewTek's.(IMHO) Get that yeast. Life will be much
better.
>
- - - ---
>Kit Anderson
This is a phenomenom I have discovered with #1968 that used to be London
ESB, now called London Special. Doesn't act like the ESB, does act like
London Ale III. Don't suppose they ever label the envelopes wrong, or are
just lying about this strain. Anyone at Wyeast want to comment on this?
Should I write to them and ask for another London Special and see how it does?
=====================
Charley
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Burns, Director, Information Systems
Elk Grove Unified School District
cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us, http://www.egusd.k12.ca.us
916-686-7710 (voice), 916-686-4451 (fax)
http://www.el-dorado.ca.us/~cburns/
Return to table of contents
From: paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 16:25:01 edt
Subject: maltmill motorizing
Todd Kirby asked in #2143 about motorizing the MM.
i just went thru this drill. Here's what's worked real well for me.
12" pulley on the mill (Grainger p/n 3X938 /$12.35. They also have the 3/8" to
1/2" bushing you'll need to stick in the pulley bore so it'll fit on the mill
(don't remeber the p/n). You'll also have to drill out the bushing in the
center on the slotted side so the pulley setscrew will tighten down onto the
mill shaft. No biggie, IMO.
My motor is a 1/3 hp from my HVAC cousin who swiped it off a commercial HVAC
unit he was working on. the motor has a 3" pulley. The belt was also Grainger
p/n 4L470 (47") for my application.
Since my brewbuddy and I brew at differnt locations, I had to make this monster
portable. Motor and mill are mounted on a 12" X 20" piece of 3/4" plywood.
Has a couple handles for carrying like a suitcase.....A HEAVY suitcase! It's
got a swing out leg that supoorts the plywood atop an old plastic fermentation
bucket wherein the crushed grain falls into.
Unless you're using a big motor (like 1 hp) I would not start this mill up
under
a load. Turn it on then add your grain. Turn it off after the hopper's empty .
Saves on wear and tear.
Works like a dream
Mike Spinelli
Return to table of contents
From: korz at pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 15:28:28 CDT
Subject: Secondaries/Koelsch
Oliver writes:
>Providing adequate sanitation: Racking to secondary provides faster
>fermentation and clearing of the beer as per your response to Robs' (1)
>and I believe as you also allude to in number (3) the racking/agitation
>will hasten the fermentation to its FG. For me this means I can usually
>bottle 2 - 3 weeks after brewing (standard ales). Easily allowing me to
>stick to a once a month brew schedule.
There is nothing inherent to using a secondary that increases the rate
of fermentation. While some yeasts (more specifically those that
are early flocculators like Wyeast #1968 or the Samuel Smith's yeast)
do benefit from some agitation, you need not rack (and, as you say,
risk the increased chance of infection and oxidation... although *some*
yeasts will respond favourably to aeration during racking *IF* it is
done while the fermentation is still going on -- result: more diacetyl)
to resuspend the yeast. You can swirl the primary.
If you pitch a big-enough starter and aerate well, with many yeasts you
can bottle in two-weeks even when using only a primary. I kegged a
batch of Special Bitter Friday that I brewed only 12 days earlier.
I used Wyeast #1028 London Ale yeast, an Oxynater(tm) for getting lots
of oxygen in the wort, a 2 Liter starter and the beer went from 1.045 to
1.014 in three days at 68-70F. It had four inches of kraeusen within
6 hours. The beer dropped bright after a week and, if hard-pressed,
I could have bottled then, only seven days after pitching. I waited an
extra week because the main reason I brewed this batch was to build up
yeast for a Barleywine which I brewed last Friday.
Oliver continues:
>I believe the issue is not whether there are benefits to using a
>secondary, but rather do those benefits outweigh the risks (infection,
>oxidation, etc.) and costs (time). For me I believe they do, for yourself
>apparantly not. Hopefully, when you present your material to a beginner,
>you will do so with an even hand.
In my book I don't say: "Use only a primary." I say these are the pluses
and these are the minuses -- decide for yourself. I do the same for
blowoff vs. non-blowoff, glass vs. plastic fermenters, closed vs. open
fermentation, aeration vs. oxygen...
I've been a subscriber to HBD since 1987 and I've heard each of these debates
at least six times. I'm well aware of both sides and it is my personal
opinion that unless you are lagering or need room for fruit or want to
dump another batch of wort on the yeast, there is no need for a secondary.
Four weeks in a primary, in my experience, is virtually equivalent to
two weeks in a primary plus two weeks in a secondary and is:
1. less work and time,
2. less chance of oxidation,
3. less chance of infection, and
4. less use of sanitizers.
***
Lou writes:
Now for a request. Is there a style defining Kolsch beer available in
Texas? I recently brewed a Kolsch from a kit that was one of the best
beers I've had in quite a while. The fruityness was incredible. I
just don't know if it was true to style or not, because I am
unfamiliar with the style. I used Wyeast Kolsch and fermented
relatively warm due to our hot and dry summer.
Koelsches are not supposed to be extremely fruity. Some are very mildly
fruity, but most are just barely fruity and rather lager-like. I feel that
the best examples (such as Muehler Koelsch) have a significant DMS
character. The problem with Koesches is the same one we have with
Duesseldorfer Altbiers... the best ones are brewed in brewpubs in their
respective cities and they simply don't bottle (some, like Zum Uerige, can
be purchased in bottles at the brewery). Dom Koelsch comes in cans and
(for a canned beer) is a remarkably good Koelsch! That may be imported
into the US, but I haven't seen it... anyone?
I don't know whether you get these in Texas, but look for Goose Island's
"Summer" and Hart Brewing's "Kalsch" (with an umlaut over the a -- I figured
adding the "e" would be confusing). I feel that these are close to the mark
(although I would like a little more malt/DMS aroma).
If the beer you made is pale, light-bodied, and evenly balanced, you're
more than halfway to the flavour of a Koelsch. Try fermenting cooler next
time -- more like 60F.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas at lucent.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
Return to table of contents
From: joe-sysop at cyberbury.net
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 20:43:59 GMT
Subject: Fruit Juice in beer
Hi, folks;
A corollary to the fruit thread comes to mind. I was
brewing my usual summer brew; a light, 2.5% alcohol ale. Whilst
the extract was in the boil, i noticed an old unopened
half-gallon of cranberry juice cocktail waaaay in the back of the
fridge. Since I subscribe to the "wing-it" school of brewing, I
tossed it in the primary, and poured the hot stuff into it and
the cold water.
It's pretty good. I don't notice the juice, except in
fruity overtones, and a bit of a cranberry finish. Anybody else
ever try brewing with fruit juices? frozen concentrates?
Joe Labeck joe-sysop at cyberbury.net
House-husband, Dad, Writer, Homebrewer
"Live Faust, Die Jung, Leave it to Beaver."
`[1;31;43mNet-Tamer V 1.04 - Registered
Return to table of contents
From: joe-sysop at cyberbury.net
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:45:06 -0600
Subject: molasses in porter
>I'm thinking of making a molasses porter for my next brew. Anyone
>have any experience/comments (I promise not to use any feedback to
>kick your butt in subsequent competitions).
>SM
I'm a confirmed extract brewer, and I generally use molasses in
my porters. I add about 2/3 to 1 cup for a 4 gal. batch of 1.044
OG. Start with that, and you'll be fine.
Joe Labeck joe-sysop at cyberbury.net
House-husband, Dad, Writer, Homebrewer
"Live Faust, Die Jung, Leave it to Beaver."
`[1;34;46mNet-Tamer V 1.04 - Registered
Return to table of contents
From: tapp at usit.net
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 17:27:55 -0400
Subject: filter Nokomaree
There was a thread here some time ago about restricting posting rights to
the HBD to its subscribers. Recent posts by this Nokomaree writer show me
that this measure and any correlative involuntary unsubscribing of that
writer and any others like that one may be needed.
Return to table of contents
From: Michael Gerholdt <gerholdt at ait.fredonia.edu>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 18:12:18 -0500
Subject: My Post Re: Al and Truth
- -- [ From: Michael Gerholdt * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
Wow, there's nothing like a gracious response to extinguish righteous
indignation.
Though I stand by what I said .... for the most part .... I agree with many
of you and with Al that this could have been done via private email. I felt
justified in doing it in the public forum because that's where Al's posts
have been. Obviously, many of you thought otherwise.
To put some perspective on it, I had just read, in a few days, all the HBDs
from May to present. I especially paid attention to the discussions on
aeration and esters, and beta amylase and conversion/FG, because that's the
sort of stuff that interests me.
I'm outta homebrew, too.
I'm impressed by Al's gracious response to what was really an unrelenting
criticism. Wonder if I could have done as well.
- --
Best Regards,
P Michael Gerholdt
Return to table of contents
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 18:12:21 -0400
Subject: Hopping Concentrated Extract Brews / Infected Keg / ScotOberfest
Paul Ward asks:
> Instead of adding my
> full 6 pounds of DME to the 2 gallons of water with 2 ounces of
> Cascade, what would happen if I only added 1 pound of DME to the
> water and hops and boiled this for 45 minutes, and then added the
> remaining DME for the last 15 minutes of boil? My thought is
> that this would cause less darkening (caramelization?) of the
> wort than the full 60 minute boil, hopefully giving a lighter
> product.
I think you accurately called the main downside of this approach: poor
hot-break. I suppose 15 minutes will get you some, but more time would
certainly be better. Yes, extract will break just as well as all-grain wort.
Another place you *may* be losing IBU's is in the IBU's themselves, so to
speak. Someone posted here recently (during the Blue Whale Ale thread?) that
IBU utilization *decreases* as IBU's increase! A small-volume boil
effectively concentrates your IBU's, so any underutilization due to this
effect will not be alleviated. I don't know how much of an effect this is
(if any), compared with the effect of SG.
And since the IBU's are so concentrated, would the relatively-thin wort
diminish the wort-binding effects of all that alpha-whatever? Perhaps that's
the same effect. Just guessing here.
Surely you can come up with a larger vessel to brew with -- even a 16-quart
stainless stockpot will hold 3-1/2 gal of boiling wort, and should be
available for less than $25. And it seems that the "beware of aluminum"
concern has been mitigated lately with newer information -- research the
topic (a keyword search on "aluminum" at The Brewery's On-Line HBD will get
you started), and if you still feel comfortable using aluminum, you can get
an aluminum stockpot 5 gallons or larger for a very reasonable price. Even
the old enamel-on-steel vessels are fine given proper care.
*****
Eric Schoville asks about his infected keg (bummer dude). While I guess it's
possible that the iodophor air-dry exposure caused a problem, it's more
likely that you (or the shop) didn't "recondition" the keg adequately --
remove/replace all O-rings, disassemble the keg fittings completely, clean
well with strong cleanser, etc. Any leftover soda-pop stuck somewhere where
the iodophor didn't get could've been harboring critters. Coulda been
somewhere else in your equipment/technique, too.
Also -- DO NOT use bleach on kegs! Bleach will eat the stainless steel for
lunch. Iodophor or other non-oxidizing sanitizers are fine.
*****
Dave Greenlee asks about ScotOberfest (great name BTW):
Dave, I recently made EuroFest OktoberAle (another great name -- thanks,
Tim!) and did a side-by-side with a Paulaner. I missed the boat on the hops
a bit, and the ale esters, low as they were, were still a giveaway, but
otherwise it was close enough to fool the average disroiented drunken Fest
guzzler and I believe it's entirely possible to get reasonably close without
all the work & time of the "real thing" using this approach. Low
fermentation temperatures coupled with a very clean yeast is crucial.
EuroFest I used Wyeast European, giving a great malty finish but with
detectable ale-ness. EuroFest II uses Kolsch; the hydrometer sample tasted
kinda thin but that's typical of flat green beers sometimes. Based on that
sample, I'd say that the European should give you what you want with careful
attention paid to temperature.
The grain bill was pretty generic with 70% pale ale malt, 30% Munich, and 10%
wheat malt (hey -- I *always* put 110% into my brewing!!). I repeated this
on EuroFest II but I think adding some crystal wouldn't hurt. Belgian
Biscuit and Aromatic malts would probably lend a nice touch, in conservative
quantities.
My experience with peat-smoked malt comes from three Scotch ales I sampled at
about the same time, using 1/2 lb, 2 lb, and 3 lb respectively in five
gallons. The 3-lb batch was unpleasantly smoky, the 2-lb was much better but
still a bit much for my taste, but the 1/2-lb brew was wonderfully subtle and
let the rest of the beer's character through. Guess which one was the one
*I* brewed...
*****
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy
Return to table of contents
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 18:29:28 -0400
Subject: One-Gallon Kegs on the Cheap
This is not an original idea, although I haven't seen any discussion about it
in the year I've been here. I thought I'd see if anyone has messed with it
before.
Seems one could use one of those pump-up pressure sprayers, used for applying
chemical treats to your lawn or unsuspecting insects, as a keg!? Although
they come in many sizes, I'm thinking the little one-gallon jobbers would be
nearly perfect. They would fit nicely in a fridge or an ice chest.
They're typically made of thick (1/8" or more) polyethylene, and have a
hand-pump mechanism and a sprayer valve hose. I'd propose replacing the
rubber sprayer hose with vinyl tubing and a thumbtap. The pump mechanism
must stay since it seals the vessel and is really part of the lid. I would
probably add a tire valve so I could force-carbonate flat beer from the
fermenter with CO2. The sprayer I bought to kill undesirable wildlife at my
house has an "indented" area that's flat and would be perfect for a tire
valve -- the valve would not be sticking out in space.
Oh yeah -- NEVER EVER refill a sprayer that's been used for anything other
than beer!! THose weed killers can linger in the plastic and spoil an
otherwise enjoyable life.
If the vessel had a charge of CO2 for carbonating, I suppose you could serve
a lot of the beer before it went flat. The hand pump would replenish the
pressure with air, so drink up. A gallon is about a twelve-pack, so this
ought not be a real challenge.
I don't know how well the pressure is held over time (does the pump or lid
leak?) or whether there's any other potential problem with the concept, but I
might give'er a go one of these days. If anyone has already tried this,
successfully or otherwise, I would appreciate the feedback.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy
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From: Mark Warrington <76322.2102 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 13 Aug 96 19:05:55 EDT
Subject: Igloo Coolers
I have been trying to find a 10 gallon Gott cooler for sale in my area
(Wilmington, Delaware). I have been unsuccessful. I just got an ad from Keen
Compressed Gases advertising, among other things welding-related, 5 and 10
gallon IGLOO coolers. The 10 gallon is $44.00 and some cents. This looks like
a good deal, any comments on Igloos for mash tuns?
Mark Warrington
Tri-State Brewers
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From: nkanous at tir.com (nkanous)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 19:08:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Rings in my beer
Help! I've been gone for a couple of months now. Forgive me if this is an
easy one. I bottled a batch of beer 10 days ago. This time I wasn't as
anal about sanitation with my bottles. I hear stories of people just hot
rinsing bottles and nothing else. I just washed quickly with sudsy water
and rinsed. Now the beer has rings around the "water line" and a film on
top. Six bottles had hot peppers added. I assume that this is a sign of an
infection. If it is, this is the first time (seems like all my beer sucks
lately...by the time it starts tasting good, it'll be great!). Question:
Is it safe to drink and evaluate the impact of this infection? TIA.
Nathan
- ------------------------------
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From: "Toler, Duffy L." <TOLERD at cdnet.cod.edu>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 18:31:00 PDT
Subject: Hops ID Help
I planted a few hop rhizomes this spring and am anticipating their harvest
in the next few weeks. The only problem is my notes regarding which
varieties were planted where are nowhere to be found. Is there any method
of determining what variety they are by looking at them. I've tried lifting
their tails... id didn't help ;)
If it helps, the three varieties are Northern Brewer, Cascade and
Willamette. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Duffy Toler
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From: remoore at exis.net (Richard Moore)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 20:01:55 -0400
Subject: Dishwashers and Bottles
Hi Collective!
Just sitting here watching the siphon draining into the bucket, awaiting my
bottling experience, and got to thinking about my sterilization method. I
wash 'em out upon drinking, then run the whole load thru the dishwasher,
first with detergent, then bleach, then rinse with water heat on. I've been
doing this for 5 or 6 batches with no probs, but I just read a clip from one
of the Charlie books that sez it's not such a great idea.
I learned to brew with Charlie, but I understand his shortcomings and don't
generally take his word as pure gospel. I have learned at least as much
here, so let me know teachers: Should I have reason to worry, or should I
Relax, etc...
Rich Moore
Prop. & Braumeister,
War Admiral Nanobrewery
Serving western Virginia Beach since 1996
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From: Mike Galvez <whs at mail.wf.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 19:10:03 -0500
Subject: Corny Keg Sanitation
Eric Schoville wrote:
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "ESCHOVIL.US.ORACLE.COM" <ESCHOVIL at us.oracle.com>
> Date: 13 Aug 96 07:21:12 -0700
> Subject: Corny Keg Sanitation
>
> I recently had a really bad experience. I just tapped my first attempt at
> kegging, and the beer was bad. I hope I never taste infected beer again!
> Anyway, I think I know what went wrong. The guy at my local shop who sold the
> corny to me told me to soak the keg and all of its parts in an iodophor
> solution and then let try overnight. This offended my sensibilities because I
> thought that letting it air dry overnight would definitely present a
> possiblity for infection. Could this be what happened?
When cleaning corny kegs, it is a good idea to remove the ball lock /
pin lock fittings and scrub the poppets, "O" ring and inside of dip
tube. After general cleaning and visual inspection of interior surface,
re assemble and Add iodophor solution, charge the keg with enough Co2 to
get a good seal and shake vigorously. Let stand for 10 minutes or more
then dispense the solution through the serve tube to insure the dip tube
is clean / clear. Rinse with water. I have used this procedure for some
time now with no problems.
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From: Kent Fritz <kfritz at gigatronics.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 96 21:10:22 PDT
Subject: Re: Dishwashers and Bottles
Rich Moore wrote:
>Just sitting here watching the siphon draining into the bucket, awaiting my
>bottling experience, and got to thinking about my sterilization method.
Watch your terminology, you might get chastised by Al!
>I wash 'em out upon drinking, then run the whole load thru the dishwasher,
>first with detergent, then bleach, then rinse with water heat on.
I just run them through the entire cycle with just water. It gets pretty
hot in there when the electric element is drying. Lots of steam too. I've
never measured the temperature, though, because it would cause worry. Five
batches this way, no spoilage, and my fingers are always crossed.
Back to lurking...
Kent Fritz
Mowing lawns to finance the kegging system.
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From: ritchie at wnstar.com (Clark D. Ritchie)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 18:53:18 -0700
Subject: RE: When To Harvest
How to tell:
1. Pick a cone (a medium sized cone from the middle of the vine).
2. Cut the cone in half and examine. Cones ready for harvest ought to have
a dark yellow powder in the middle (a lot like highway paint).
3. Squeeze it. The cone should feel papery and not damp. Cones ready for
harvest ought to spring back to shape after squeezing whereas premature
cones will stay compressed.
4. Take a whiff; smell the cones. Do they smell hoppy?
5. Touch a few, your hands ought to smell like hops.
That's when you are ready for harvest... CDR
PS - Bits and pieces taken from personal experience and "Homegrown Hops" by
David Beach... CDR
________________________________________________________________________
Clark D. Ritchie, ritchie at wnstar.com http://www.wnstar.com/ritchie/
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From: Guy McConnell <guym at Exabyte.COM>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 22:43:37 -0400
Subject: Religious Bigot!!
Keith writes:
> Keith Royster - Mooresville, North Carolina
> "Where if the kudzu don't gitcha, the Baptists will!"
Why you Keith! As a recovering Southern Baptist, I resemble
that remark!
Oh, beer related stuff? What's with Pete Slosberg lately?
I've seen (and bought) Pete's Wicked Maple Porter, Pete's
Wicked Strawberry Blonde, and Pete's Wicked Multigrain (barley,
oats, wheat, and rye) beers in the grocery store (supermarket
to you yankees) in the past few weeks. The Porter was pretty
good (though caramel colored according to the label) with a
nice maple character, the Strawberry Blonde had just a hint of
strawberry, and the multigrain was a pretty good beer but I had
a hard time tasting anything out of the ordinary. Looks like
Pete's is blasting out anything they can think of.
Also, I am sitting in Tallahassee, Florida after visiting The
Buckhead Brewery and Grill and I defy Michael Jackson to say
that Southern beers are "timid" after visiting there! I had a
great conversation and brewery tour with Gary Essex, Head
Brewer, and I highly recommend a visit to anyone who finds
themselves in the area. A beautiful brewery with a great
lineup of beers.
- --
Guy McConnell /// Huntersville, NC /// guym at exabyte.com
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From: "Ken Smith" <ksmith2 at wingsbbs.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 21:14:34 -0400
Subject: Really hot stove deal!
I thought the collective would like to hear about my stove 'Deal of the
Century'. I was at an estate sale recently and saw in the corner of the
basement an old canning stove made by a company called Griswold. I paid
(without haggling over price) $15 for it and stuck it in the store room
with intentions of restoring it and using it for homebrewing. After being
told by my brewing partners wife "you guys gotta by a stove to brew on..
your ruining my kitchen stove... etc" , we started looking into a King
Cooker and then it dawned on me.... duhhhh what about that canning
stove.... Well, after $1.35 for a fitting and retrieving a spare propane
tank and regulator from an old discarded grill, we were shooting some
serious flames from both burners from this little cast iron beauty. We had
13 gallons of wort to a full boil in about 20 minutes. After full boil was
achieved, we backed one burner down to about 60% and achieved a nice left
to right rolling boil.
Soot was a little much on the pot but looks like a good batch of
California Common in the primaries right now... Keep your eye open for one
of these little things.. I see them frequently at estate sales and plan to
buy another.
Ken Smith
Tropheus Brewing Co VyLtd
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From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 13 Aug 96 23:25:12 EDT
Subject: Sulfur Dioxide, Getting to know you,
Brewsters:
I've been out of town for a few days and am behind on commenting on comments
directed toward me.
As much as I'd like to acceed to AlK's pleas to give up, I can't. BTW who said
this was a fight? I didn't.
Unfortunately for Al, I can't quote here the volumes of literature that firmly
develop the theme that sulfurous acid at pH's below 3.0 and at high enough
concentrations is a sterilant. Read the book and stop challenging dogma or else
provide a professional, well documented quote which destroys decades of work by
microbiologists all over the world. No dictionaries please.
I will only answer one comment about sporulating yeasts, etc.
Table Wines, op. cit p. 399:
"The antiseptic action of sulfur dioxide toward microorganisms, particularly
yeasts, varies with their stage of development and the numbers present. It is
greater toward the resting sporulating, yeasts....."
The essence of the entire text is that sulfur dioxide in solution is very
reactive with oxygen, various carbonyl compounds in the must and from the
yeast,
and is stripped from the solution by carbon dioxide bubbles. I suppose this
could lead you to conclude that it is not a sterilant, since if you put low
levels ( say less than 100 ppm) of sulfur dioxide into a must , it will lilkely
ferment eventually, especially if you add yeast. This is because the sulfurous
acid has been depleted by the above mechanisms and is no longer there. I have
seen grape juices on the HB market that sit in a plastic bag at RT and don't
ferment. The bag says "contains sulfites". It is likely that sulfur dioxide
content is high enough to prevent fementation and will be depleted upon opening
by reaction with air and allow fermentation. It may also be the purpose of the
sulfite to prevent browning of a juice which has been thermally sterilized. I
prefer the former scenario , since a colleague once purchased a bag which could
never be coaxed into fermenting.
By periodically testing and adding sufficient make-up sulfites, a juice or wine
with a pH below 3 will remain stable to microbiological action. The pH of worts
or beers are generally too high to permit the sulfite to be active as a
sterilant. Some yeasts exhibit extraordinary tolerance to sulfur dioxide, some
even manufacture it, but at a high enough level and at a pH less than 3, it is
a sterilant. In my last note on this subject to HBD the levels in the
quotation from TW were for normal levels used in the production of wine in
which
the minimal level is considered best. Don't confuse these comments with the
ability of sulfur dioxide to be an excellent sterilant at high enough
concentrations and a pH of less than 3.0.
Greg Douhan comments that I, AlK and others should take a week off and get to
know each other. We have, more like a month. You haven't been privy to the, at
last count, 77 e-mails that have flowed between AlK, SteveA and I and others
who
may prefer to remain nameless. These epistles ranged over the temperature,
concentration, etc. of mashes, kinetics and many other related topics. We may
even do some simple mashing experiments to provide us with a better
understanding of the behavior of modern malts as contrasted with much of the
older published literature, etc., etc. If we do it and if it makes sense we
intend to publish it here. We got off here when we realized our quotations,
ruminating and discussions were not of interest to too many others and
difficult
to follow, although some people have recently asked to be copied in on our
conversations. We try to limit our conversations in the HBD to those which we
think are useful to some members at least. Please don't misunderstand. Our
fussing and fighting is not based on egos - or at least mine isn't. (smiley
face
here).
Unfortunately, not everything in this world is crystal clear and one of the
best
ways to expose all the parameters is through the advocate system which is the
basis of the US legal system and the one we use. If Steve, Al and I lived close
enough together, we would likely be drinking beer and discussing these subjects
in an animated fashion. Perhaps we are a little too personal in our jibes in an
uninformed audience and it appears we are holding knives at each others
throats.
Not true. Or at least I'm not. (smiley face here)
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
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