---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Plaster? (sharrington at CCGATE.HAC.COM)
  RE: A really cool immersion wort chiller/HSA (Philip DiFalco)
  Re: High Cellar,Chilling methods ("David R. Burley")
  Re: Mead acidity, Lactic acid, SpMash?, smoking bananas ("David R. Burley")
  RE: brewing small batches (Glenn Heath)
  British IPA's/couscous (Larry Johnson)
  Bottled Water ((Bryan Rafferty))
  Saranac PA/ BWD ("Dave Hinkle")
  Whitbread Ale ("Michael B. Roberts, MD FACS")
  Yeast Storage under distilled water,  Brewtek CL-680 Lager Yeast ((Michael A. Owings))
  Mega brewers (John Wilkinson)
  Extract Brewer's pH / Converting Swill Drinkers (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  RE: Brewing Costs ("Bridges, Scott")
  RE: Mega Brewing ("Bridges, Scott")
  dateline ((beerdogs))
  RFC on Imperial Stout Recipe (Charles Capwell)
  Increasing Maltiness flavor in a DME brew (Charles Burns)
  Cheap scales (Charles Capwell)
  Two Copies (shane at cais.cais.com)
  Grains Storage - whats best? (BernardCh at aol.com)
  solder/brewery equipment ((Mark & Ava Lindberg))
  Re: How to remove bungs from Mini Kegs ((Daniel R. Burke))
  Help! (Barry Vanhoff)
  Oxygen in the wort ("Adam RIch, PhD")
  Brewing water (gravels at TRISMTP.NPT.nuwc.navy.mil)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: sharrington at CCGATE.HAC.COM
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 08:59:26 PST
Subject: Plaster?

     I recently built a house, and there is a bunch of plaster left over. 
     Has anyone ever made beer from plaster?  Can it be mashed?  Does it 
     have enough enzymes or do I need to mash it with Klages?  8^) 
 
     Brewing on the edge, 
 
     Stephen Harrington 
     Manhattan Beach, CA 
 

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From: Philip DiFalco <sxupjd at fnma.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 10:33:53 -0400
Subject: RE: A really cool immersion wort chiller/HSA

 
> I designed and made a truly great wort chiller!... 
> <snip> 
> I have timed the chilling and can easily drop boiling wort to 
> 70F in 10 mins by gently lifting the chiller 1/2" up and down... 
 
Despite the gentleness of lifting the chiller up and down, could such a process
be a source for Hot Side Aeration (as from the start, the wort is still very 
hot)?

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From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 15 Oct 96 12:18:15 EDT
Subject: Re: High Cellar,Chilling methods

Brewsters: 
 
> From: Michael Caprara <mcaprara at awwarf.com> 
>> I have a question about storing meads and ciders.  I have a space above 
> my kitchen cabinets that will allow for some wine racks.  I would like to 
> store some of my meads and ciders up there.  Is there a problem with 
> sunlight and fluorescent light hitting meads and ciders?  All of the bottles 
> are corked and will lay on their sides.  My kitchen gets DIRECT sunlight 
> first thing in the morning. I have a fluorescent fixture on the ceiling of my
 
> kitchen. 
 
Michael, 
The problem will be not so much with the light if the bottles are stored in 
dark
bottles or wrapped in paper, as with the high and very variable temperatures 
experienced at the ceiling. This will cause your bottles to pump air in and out
as the temperature changes and make your wines age and ultimately spoil faster.
> ------------------------------ 
 
Phil ( say Dart Frog Dortmunder three times  fast)  Wilcox writes: 
 
"I have a question. Is adding my 2.5 gal of nearling boiling Wort to 2.5 gal 
cold water and then chilling the entire 5 gal the best way to go? What effect 
does this have on the wort?  Chilling the 2.5 gal of hot wort and adding that 
to the cold water be less rough on the beer. Is this beneficial? " 
 
Although our patron saint CP recommends adding hot wort to cold water in a 
carboy, don't do it.  The transfer will mix in oxygen likely and you will get 
hot side aeration - HSA. The cold water will have oxygen in it and you will get
some HSA even if you siphon. Your method of transferring the hot wort to a 
bucket before cooling is also a chief candidate for HSA. 
 
Best way is to cool the 2.5 gals of hot wort before transfer ( it is more 
efficient), siphon it - through a Choreboy scrubbing pad to strain out the hops
and hot break and some of the cold break - into that cold water, letting the 
cold wort pass through the air to oxygenate it. Or siphon directly to that 
copper cooling coil/ice cooler is the best. 
- ---------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Keep on brewin' 
 
 
Dave Burley 
Kinnelon, NJ 07405 
103164.3203 at compuserve.com 
 

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From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 15 Oct 96 12:18:19 EDT
Subject: Re: Mead acidity, Lactic acid, SpMash?, smoking bananas

Brewsters: 
 
Robert Waddell says: 
.  I read a post 
> in the last "Mead Lovers Digest" about putting CaCO3 in a mead must to keep 
> the pH at ~4.0 and getting a much faster ferment.  What I am wondering is: 
> would this approach be a benefit in a Belgian Strong Ale, Barley Wine, etc.? 
> Would there be enough other flavors in these beers to cover up any flavors 
> from the CO3?  For that matter what would the CO3 flavor be? 
 
Carbonate at pH = 4 and lower will become carbon dioxide gas and will provide a
little acidic tingle on your tongue until it disappears.  Without reading the 
article, I can't comment on the recommended use of CaCO3, but in grape wine 
making anything higher than pH = 3.4 in the must generally produces an insipid 
wine. pH is not the issue really, it is the titrable acidity which should be in
the range of 0.65 - 0.7 ppm as tartaric acid for whites. I suspect that adding 
CaCO3 will destroy that completely and you will get a mead with a very 
medicinal
flavor. ( Which is why many have such a bad taste at the beginning. Metheglin, 
I believe, is the Welsh word for "medicine" perhaps due to a need to get around
the Methodist anti-drinking campaign, but it may be the taste.) Ferment it acid
and if you want to adjust it later with CaCO3, OK. I doubt it very much if the 
acidity of the mead being too high is the problem, in fact, I would suspect 
just
the opposite. Likely the CaCO3 is supplying some missing nutrients or 
micronutrients.  Try adding some nutrients if your fermentations are too slow. 
 
Alcohol content is the major problem with slow fermentation in the case of high
OG barley beverages.  Conventional beer yeasts just don't like to ferment much 
above an alcohol content of 8% v/v. Use a yeast which can get you there or two 
stage it with a beer yeast followed by a wine yeast. 
- --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Braam Greyling asks about the production of lactic acid by German brewers: 
 
How do they make this lactic acid ? I may want to try it as well when 
I am a better brewer. 
 
Braam, 
You can try it now.  Just mill a small amount of malt (or take some from your 
next brew) mash it and cool it  or use UNhopped malt extract..  When cool, put 
in some ( say 1 tsp) of malt or barley kernels as a "starter". Hold this at 
110F
or so for 24 hours and you will have a predominantly lactic acid ferment. 
Expand it if you wish. I normally get 0.1 N acid from an extended fermentation.
I use this for making dry stout sometimes. 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 
But, Braam, your next post really puzzled me: 
 
>"This weekend I brewed a Weiss beer. Or rather I tried to brew it. 
>I had one big problem. A completely stuck sparge. I suspect it is due 
>stirring the mash at too late stage. Or too much liquid in the 
>mashtun. 
 
>I tried an step infusion mash. I had the mash at 120 degrees for an 
>hour, I stirred it a lot and the liquid was still flowing freely. 
>(I recirculate by hand using a small bucket.) When I took it up to 
>157 degrees my problems started. I suspect I should not have stirred 
>it when the temp was higher. It was stuck completely. No more 
>recirculation." 
 
What exactly are you doing? Sparging or mashing? or what? 
 
A step infusion mash is one in which the whole mash is heated by either aplied 
heat or by adding hot water to achieve various mashing temperature steps. 
Sounds to me like you are doing a decoction mash bassackwards by pulling the 
wort and heating it ????   You could be wiping out the enzymes if you are 
heating a small amount too high. 
 
Or is it manual RIMS? ( don't bother) 
 
 The protein and gums in the wheat likely caused the problem. But at 157F you 
were above the gelatinization of the wheat starch and if the enzynes were 
denatured ......., so I don't know for sure. Try holding at 110F, 122F and 135F
before moving up to mashing.  About 30 min at each lower hold is adequate.  If 
you are ramping, move at about 2 deg/min with a 15 min hold. Heat the mash tun 
directly or start with a thick mash and add boiling water to get to the various
stages.  The thin mash at the end will provide an improved environment for 
efficient saccharification. 
 
Please expand a little on what you are doing, either here or private e-mail. 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Michael Capara writes: 
 
"PS  I once brewed a Smoked Banana Porter  Yummmmmy! " 
 
What I want to know is how you smoked the banana. Sounds a little like "Mellow 
Yellow" 
 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Keep on brewin' 
 
 
Dave Burley 
Kinnelon, NJ 07405 
103164.3203 at compuserve.com 
 

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From: Glenn Heath <GLENNH at tekecb.merix.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 9:52:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RE: brewing small batches

I also started my all-grain experience with a small batch (2.5 gal). 
 
The positive side of this includes: 
* You can try a lot more recipes without creating as much to drink (wait -- 
  is that a positive?) 
* The amount of grain is less -- this can be a factor if you lauter tun is 
  only 5 gallons (too much grain is tough to fit in a 5 gallon bucket or 
  cooler) 
* You can use a smaller boiling pot (= cheaper if you don't have the large pot)
* If you are making a very actively fermenting beer (Porter, fruit, etc.) you 
  can leave a lot more head space in the fermenter and can avoid seeing beer 
  come out of your airlock 
 
The negative side of this includes: 
* When you brew a great batch (like my first all-grain x-mas ale) you don't 
have
  enough to drink 
* The cost of your fixed materials goes up (i.e. liquid yeast) since you are 
  using the same amount and getting half the yield -- this can be aided by 
  creating multiple second generation yeasts from a smack-pack so that your 
  cost per batch drops dramatically 
* The amount of time you invest is relatively constant so you get less beer 
  for your efforts 
 
I am sure there are other factors that I have not learned or considered yet. 
I am stil reasonably new to all-grain brewing, but I will also not go back 
to extract after tasting the difference.  As for the smallest batch you can 
brew, if you go much smaller than 2.5 gallons you may find that the batch is 
too sensitive to measurement errors and that the grain bed becomes too small. 
If you want to do a lot of experimenting, you may want to still mash 2-3 
gallons and then experiment with things in the secondary in 1 gallon jugs. 
I have done that same sort of experimenting using a 5 gallon mash and boil 
and then split the batch into two one-case batches for secondary adds.  Good 
luck with your new adventures. 
 
Glenn Heath 
Beaverton, OR (in the land of the highest per-capita number of microbreweries 
and brew pubs) 
glennh at merix.com 

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From: Larry Johnson <Maltster at ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:23:41 -0700
Subject: British IPA's/couscous

Hi, all.  Sorry to be coming in late on these threads, but I got behind 
(again) on my reading. 
 
1.  I understand that IPA's have all but died out as a style in England, and 
I also agree that a style is more than just an historical example, but just 
for one more data point I would like to quote "The Real Ale Drinker's 
Almanac" by Roger Protz (published by CAMRA). The following is excerpted 
from the text on pages 44-45 of the 1991 Copyright 2nd edition:  Worthington 
White Shield  - OG 1.051  ABV 5.6% IBU 40 - bottle conditioned.  (under 
Comments:) "The classic original India Pale Ale,..." 
 
This is the defining India Pale Ale, at least to Mr. Protz and/or CAMRA, I 
take it.  I've had it, I loved it, and I wish I could buy it here in the US. 
But no flames, please.  I never said it was THE IPA.  I just quoted da book. 
 
2.  In HBD #2228, Ken Sullivan's definition of couscous sounds like he may 
have it confused with taboule (which is cracked, steamed, bulghur wheat). 
Couscous is pasta made from semolina and may even contain (though maybe not 
traditionally) oil and eggs.  I know this because I have seen recipes for 
making it.  The shape and texture come from the method with which it is 
made.  I wouldn't put it into a mash.  Taboule would be better. 
 
3.  In a vein more *directly* related to homebrewing, I tried something that 
I've wanted to since first reading TNCJOHB:  Sparrow Hawk Porter.  I was a 
bit leary of using 1 lb. of Black Patent in 5 gallons of beer, scared 
spitless of boiling grains for 7 minutes, but it's in the secondary now and 
the hydrometer sample tasted *good*.  OG 1.054, gravity at racking = 1.017. 
The Danstar Nottingham yeast (Yes! Dry yeast! I'm such a heathan.) worked 
fantastically.  Fermentation was at approximately 65 F, thanks to the cold, 
wet towel wrapped around the glass carboy and the recent cool weather here 
in GA. 
 
I am assuming, from posts that I've read here and on r.c.b., that I don't 
have a horrific tannic bite from boiling the grains because of the low Ph 
induced by the highly roasted grains themselves.  Is so?  Well, on to bigger 
and better posts than mine... 
 
Oh yeah; almost forgot.  There's going to be a second annual Micro-brew Fest 
in Athens on October 27.  E-mail me if you're gonna be in the neighborhood 
and want to go, I'll fill you in on details. 
 
Come get me, Mom; I'm done. 
 
Larry Johnson  /  Athens, GA  /  maltster at ix.netcom.com 
 

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From: rif-raf at ix.netcom.com (Bryan Rafferty)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:54:56 -0400
Subject: Bottled Water

As a begining home brewer, I was wondering if the use of bottled "Drinking 
Water" is better to use when making beer. If so, when it is  better to use, 
if not, why? 
 
Also is it possible to open a new 5 gal plastic bottle (carboy) of 
"Drinking Water" - pour off 2 gallons for boiling the wort - cover the 
plastic carboy (to protect from airborn contamination) and return the 
cooked wort to the remaining 3 gallons of "Drinking Water" left in the 
plastic carboy and ferment ...should sterilization be a factor? 
 
 
Thanks in advance, 
 
Bryan Rafferty 
rif-raf at ix.netcom.com 
 
 

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From: "Dave Hinkle" <Dave.Hinkle at aexp.com>
Date: 15 Oct 1996 11:34:36 -0700
Subject: Saranac PA/ BWD

Michael Gerholdt <gerholdt at ait.fredonia.edu> wrote: 
 
 "The Saranac Pale Ales are pretty good.  ... I don't think it is quite "big 
enough" to qualify as an India Pale Ale, however; at least, that's not what 
occurs to me as I drink it. Just a pretty  good Pale Ale. (All things are 
relative; there is no comparison between this and SNPA, for example. But given 
what's on the shelves at Quality or Tops, Saranac's is definitely not 
depressing.)" 
 
You're right, Saranac PA is not an IPA. BUT, I must humbly disagree that there 
is "no comparison to Sierra Nevada PA."  NO comparison!? I think SNPA is an 
excellent APA.  But so is the SaranacPA (w/ Cascades - I didn't know there was 
another one).  F.X.Matt's is a bit more fruity, but that hardly makes it 
inferior (just different).  Funny thing is, it's hard to find Saranac here in 
AZ, but SNPA abounds lately (and cheaper all the time).  Maybe if you drank 
SNPA more often, you'd feel differently about it being the end-all, be-all, 
definitive American pale ale. 
 
If only Sierra Nevada would make some more Bigfoot! Too bad they're tied up 
increasing SNPA production, so we Bigfoot fans suffer in silence. Why long for 
an IPA when you can hope for a barley wine?  Maybe if you all QUIT BUYING SNPA 
for a while, they'll shift some equipment back to making Bigfoot in decent 
amounts? <g> 
 
Hey Jethro, when you gonna ship some of that magical barley wine of yours out 
here?  I need something else so I quit thinking Bigfoot is the definitive BW! 
A case or three ought to convince me. 
 
Dave Hinkle, BWD (Barley Wine Deprived) 
Phoenix, AZ 
 
PS. If you're ever in Phoenix, stop by and I'll show you the shrine in my 
refrigerator for my last 3 bottles of '95 Expedition. 
 

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From: "Michael B. Roberts, MD FACS" <mbrobert at accucomm.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 14:46:25 -0400
Subject: Whitbread Ale

I recently discovered Whitbread ale on a trip to San Francisco.  I haven't 
run into this beer on the East Coast.  Can anyone give me any info on the 
brewery and its beers?  Also, I am enough of a low-life to clone this beer 
if anyone has the recipe. 
 
Thanks, 
 
M. Roberts 

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From: mikey at waste.com (Michael A. Owings)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 19:33:32 GMT
Subject: Yeast Storage under distilled water,  Brewtek CL-680 Lager Yeast

Has anyone tried long-term storage of yeast under distilled water,  as 
discussed by A. J. deLange a while back?  I am doing some yeast slant 
maintenance in a couple of days anyway,  and thought I might try this.  = 
I'd be 
interested in specific procedures and and results.  How long did your = 
cultures 
remain viable?  Did you store under refrigeration or at room temp?  = 
Private 
email responses are fine -- I'll summarize. 
 
Also,  if anyone has tried the BrewTek East European Lager Yeast = 
(CL-680), 
I'd love to hear any opinions on flavor/performance. 
 
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 
Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.The = 
courage 
to change the things I can. *** And the wisdom to hide the bodies of the = 
people=20 
I had to kill because they pissed me off *** 

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From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 14:45:43 -0500
Subject: Mega brewers

I don't understand all the concern about the megabrewers making beers under 
names that make them appear to be craft brews.  Granted, I assume beers 
produced by Bud, Miller, Coors, et al, are probably not worth trying and 
probably would not gamble on buying a six pack where I might if I thought 
it was from a micro.  That said, the real test is in the drinking.  If it 
is good beer why should I care if it is made by a mega?  If it is bad beer 
it is not going to be any more drinkable just because it was made by a micro. 
All the megas can skin us out of with a psuedo micro beer is the price of 
one six pack. If people are drinking beer just because they think it is brewed 
by a micro then they are being no more discriminating than someone who drinks 
a beer just because it says Coors, Bud, or Millers on the label. 
I have had a number of micro beers that I would not buy again.  Most, in fact. 
The same goes for imports.  There are only a few I find good enough to buy 
again.  And those likely would not be the same as bought by someone else. 
 
The real question is, do you like the beer?  If you do, don't worry about 
who brewed it, except possibly to try other of their products. 
 
John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com 

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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:15:34 -0400
Subject: Extract Brewer's pH / Converting Swill Drinkers

Michael Mahler asks about the correct pH for extract brewers.  Good question 
with a happy answer -- the best pH is whatever it is!  That's an 
oversimplification but the bottom line is that pH is of concern primarily to 
provide an optimum environments for grain enzymes to do their work converting 
starch to sugar.  Since your extract is the ready-to-use end-product of this 
operation, there's no need to be concerned about the pH.  Any salt additions 
would be for flavor / style reasons alone. 
 
An exception perhaps might be if your water is very alkaline.  This could add 
harsh notes to the hop bitterness and could impact the hot break.  Boiling 
and decanting before brewing can help; adding a bit of phosphoric or lactic 
acid would work too.  Add enough acid to see a change in the pH; that way you 
know you've eliminated a goodly amount of the alkalinity.  Actual pH 
shouldn't really matter once this condition is attained. 
 
***** 
 
Cory Chadwell plans on initiating some swill drinkers: 
 
     "We currently have bottle 
     conditioning a typical micro-style copper, a fairly dark ale, and a 
     stout.  I would appreciate suggestions on one or two more styles that 
     have done well for you in the past with new tasters." 
 
I've had good response from the Bud crowd with my OktoberAle.  It's rich and 
malty but seems to play well to the average palatte.  For 5 gal I used 7 lb 
pale ale malt, 3 lb munich, 1 lb wheat.  You could toss in a bit of crystal 
(1/2 - 1 lb) if you wish.  Or use same proportions of extract (munich extract 
is available from several sources if not your local shop) if extract brewing. 
 Hop with 25 IBU Czech Saaz or other "noble" variety.  Ferment at 58F with 
Wyeast Kolsch or other neutral to malty yeast.  Improves markedly with cold 
storage but is pretty decent right out of the chute.  Of course, if you can 
brew a true "lager" O'Fest, do that instead.  Good luck!! 
 
***** 
 
Ken Schwartz 
El Paso, TX 
KennyEddy at aol.com 
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy 
 

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From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess at mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 15:09:00 PDT
Subject: RE: Brewing Costs

 
 
>From: bob rogers <bob at carol.net> 
>Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:05:39 -0400 
>Subject: Errors-To: bacchus at aob.org 
[snip] 
>> That's 15% on the product and 85% on the marketing , if I figured it 
right. 
>>Just maybe that's why A-B sells more swill worldwide than anybody else? 
> 
>15% on the product is about 15% more than most mega-brew. no, that's not 
>sarcasm. the typical product is 1/3 packaging, 1/3 marketing, and 1/3 
>transportation. and about 1% brewing cost. 
 
Bob, 
Those percentages aren't limited to mega-breweries!  1/3 packaging is about 
right.  For micros, you could probably replace the other pieces with 1/3 
equipment cost and 1/3 other operational expenses.  I'm generalizing, of 
course.  Anyway, the actual ingredient cost is small compared to the other 
expenses of running a brewery, no matter the size. 
 
Scott 
 
 

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From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess at mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 17:23:00 PDT
Subject: RE: Mega Brewing

 
 
>From: bob rogers <bob at carol.net> 
>Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 23:22:35 -0400 
>Subject: brewing MBAs 
> 
>1) not all MBAs like bad beer. 
>2) the "great beer revival" began with american breweries brewing better 
beer. 
>3) the mega breweries have handled the situation quite well. compare them 
to 
>the automobile giants, the airline giants, the copier giant, the computer 
>giant, etc. the mega-brewers have responded market pressures _before_ an 
>impact on bottom line! that is a major acomplishment for one company in an 
>oligopily, let alone four of four. 
 
Sorry, Bob.  I guess this is my day to pick on you.  No flames intended, but 
I'd like to add a different opinion.  I don't think the the big brewers (or 
AB specifically) acted *before* their bottom lines got hurt.  Recall that 
overall US beer sales have been flat for the last, say, 10 years (Sorry that 
I don't have the exact stats in front of me).  During that time, the sales 
of imports and micros have been increasing with double-digit growth.  Guess 
what that says to AB?  They are losing market share.  Their crystal balls 
probably picked up on the fact that this was a trend.  Now granted, they 
haven't lost a tremendous amount of market share yet, but I call that a 
bottom line impact (I'm not even an MBA, either).  Well, ok, they *did* act 
before they went bankrupt, unlike some of the other industries you 
mentioned.  I'll give 'em credit for that. 
 
Now here's my main problem.  How did they react to the micro threat -- by 
making better beer?  No.  By slamming the competition, putting out their 
psuedo-micro, while explaining to us why Bud is really a better beer than 
Opaque Pumpernickel Stout, or whatever.  Can AB actually make good beer? 
 Hell, yes.  They probably have some of the best, technically proficient 
brewers in the world.  We already know that they have quality control down. 
 I say to AB, put up or shut up. 
 
Back to brewing.... 
Scott 
 
 

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From: beerdogs at cyclops.dcache.net (beerdogs)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 19:25:08 -0500
Subject: dateline

stone philips drinks wine spritzers.  to h at ll with NBC. 
 
cheers, 
Sara&Rod 
 
***blessed is the woman who gives birth to a brewer*** 
                -inscription outside of Pilsner Urquel, Czechoslovokia 
 
 

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From: Charles Capwell <chas at A119010.sat1.as.crl.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:28:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: RFC on Imperial Stout Recipe

Thought I'd post a recipe I whipped up and ask for comments on it. Email 
is fine. 
 
Right now the working name for this recipe is Bees and Bears Russian 
Imperial Stout. You'll see why. 
 
Name: Bees and Bears RIS 
Style: Imperial Stout 
Finished Volume: 2.5 gallons 
 
Grain Bill: 
4# English Pale Ale 
.5# carapils 
6 oz English Roasted Barley 
6 oz English Black Roast 
4 oz Flaked Barley 
4 oz Flaked Wheat(considering using spelt) 
4 oz English Chocolate 
2 oz English Smoked(HB)(I'm considering leaving this out, may be making 
   the flavor too complex) 
1# Honey(Hence the "Bees" part) 
 
Hopping schedule: 
.5 oz Fuggles - 180 mins 
.5 oz Fuggles - 120 mins 
.5 oz Fuggles - 90 mins 
.25 oz EKG - 30 mins 
.25 oz EKG - 15 mins 
.5 oz EKG - Dry hop 
 
Yeast: 
Wyeast #1318 London Ale III 
 
Now, according to the software I use(BrewNIX), w/ the extract efficiency 
set to about what I seem to be getting, I get the following numbers. 
 
OG: 1.087 
% AbV: 8.9 
CU: 217.6 
IBU(Tinseth): 71.2 
 
I've used this software to map several other batches and both the OG and % 
AbV have been right on, so I feel fairly confident in it's correctness. 
 
I'm trying for a complex RIS and feel that with this recipe that I'm 
likely to achieve that. I'd just like some input on this recipe. :> 
 
TIA! 
- -Chas 
- -Crazy Cockatiel Brewery 
(chas at crl.com) 
Hint: Before bringing in a Sankey kettle from the cooker outside, make sure 
all birds are locked safely away! They have a habit of jumping right where 
you were gonna set down that hefty and hot kettle. :> 

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From: Charles Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:41:52 -0700
Subject: Increasing Maltiness flavor in a DME brew

I have a recipe for an amber (all-grain) that my brother wants to try, 
but he's an extract brewer. Its fairly easy to convert this simple 
pale-ale, cara-pils, crystal, vienna malt to extract. The hard part i 
think is the process. 
 
When I make this beer, I mash in at 158F and keep the temp between 158F 
and 160F for an hour before sparging at 180. I find that if the temp 
goes down to the 150-154 range, the beer comes out much drier and loses 
it's malty flavor. 
 
Is there any way to keep the malty flavor but also do it as a DME + 
specialty grains recipe? 
 
I think this would be a good discussion for HBD, but private email is 
also well received. TIA. 
 
Charley 
cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us 

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From: Charles Capwell <chas at A119010.sat1.as.crl.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:38:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Cheap scales

While visiting a local headshop(Planet K for you Texans) to buy some smokes, 
I spied a few handheld scales for sale at $6.00. Out of the four they had, 
at least two were in grams and one in ounces, can't remember what the fourth 
was in. 
 
Thought this might help people out there interested in a cheap scale for 
hops. There are plans for an even cheaper cardboard knock-off of the same 
thing online at the Brewery(http://alpha.rollanet.org/). 
 
- -Chas (chas at crl.com) 
- -Crazy Cockatiel Brewery 
 

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From: shane at cais.cais.com
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:27:59 -0400
Subject: Two Copies

I keep getting two copies of the Digest. I was wondering if any body else gets 
two copies. 

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From: BernardCh at aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:44:01 -0400
Subject: Grains Storage - whats best?

I just finished wiring in a new chest freezer for lagering.  I was wondering. 
. . 
 
1.  Can grain be frozen without any hamful effects?  For how long? 
 
2.  Can grain be "refridgerated" (same temps as lagering? 
 
3.  If I get one of those vacuum sealers at a garage sale or flea market 
somewhere I this a better way      to store grain than frozen/refridgerated? 
 What about vacuum and cold storage? 
 
Just wondering.  Public or private responses OK 
 
 
Chuck 
Nashville, TN 
Music City USA 

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From: ckbrew at ime.net (Mark & Ava Lindberg)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:25:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: solder/brewery equipment

 
Greetings all 
 
Does anyone have information on using solder for building brewery equipment 
in locations where the solder would be in contact with the wort?  Obviously 
lead free.  I have found a solder that is tin, coper, and silver.  Will this 
be safe for use in the brewery both from the standpoint of human consumption 
and quality of the beer?   Many thanks... 
 
Mark 
ckbrew at ime.net 
 

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From: husky at juno.com (Daniel R. Burke)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 01:03:57 EDT
Subject: Re: How to remove bungs from Mini Kegs

Robert Marshall asked: 
 
>How does one remove one of those bungs from the top of the keg after 
>it is emptied? It seems like I could used pliers but I don't want to 
>damage the keg. Or, I could cut it off, but I don't want to do that if 
>the bungs are reusable. 
 
Cut it out, being careful not to damage the keg.  The ones that come in 
the pre-filled kegs are not reusable.  The bungs that you buy at a 
homebrew supply are soft rubber and they can be easily pried out after 
the mk is empty. 

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From: Barry Vanhoff <bvanhof at eecs.wsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:28:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help!

 
Hello homebrewers, 
 
I've been reading this list for a few weeks now, and would like 
do my first all grain recipe (I know, most of you have heard this 
question a zillion times ...). 
 
I will be doing a single stage mash at 155 degrees, and i have the 
following questions: 
 
1) is it feasible to keep the temperature at a constant 155 degrees 
   in a $1.50 bucket (noninsulated)? 
 
2) if the temp in the bucket drops from 155 to 150 in a one hour 
   period, is that a problem? 
 
3) if the temp drops to (say) 145 degrees in 30 minutes, is it OK 
   to pour hot water into the mash to reheat it to 155? 
 
4) for a single stage mash (infusion?) is it necessary to do a mash-in 
   before the actual mash?  what will this gain for me? 
 
5) is a mash-out necessary too?  (i think my friend anton just 
   asked this same question ... but somehow i missed the answer). 
 
and lastly ... 
 
6) how much volume of wort needs to be recirculated during sparging? 
   100%?  the first 2 quarts (dependent upon the false bottom)? 
 
Thanks in advance ... 
 
 
Barry Vanhoff 
bvanhof at eecs.wsu.edu 
 

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From: "Adam RIch, PhD" <ar at crocus.rochester.medicine.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:34:42 -0700
Subject: Oxygen in the wort

Hello all: 
 How many have read the latest Brewing Techniques article on 
Oxygen levels in the wort?  I found this to be very intresting.  The 
basic rule of thumb has been to get as much oxygen dissolved into the 
wort at pitching time, or just after pitching time.  Then the yeast can 
reproduce, prefrentially, and increase the total number of yeast before 
fermenting the wort.  Now this is a gross simplification but I think that 
it captures the essence.  The article cleaerly shows that useign pure 
oxygen bubbled into the wort gives teh highest levels for dossolved 
oxygen.  No surprise there.  However, if I recall correctly it also 
showed that the lag times were greater for this high level of dissolved 
oxygen!  I know that we want a large healthy population of yeast but this 
is usually associatted with short lag times.  As I recall there is little 
discussion of this result and no recomendation. 
 To me the article showed that if you own an oxygenator you may as 
well use it but if you don't, save your money!  What do you people think? 
  The trub/ poor attenuation 'thread' in the magazine is also quite 
fascinateing.  I will be intersted to see if it is ever resolved. 
 Sorry if this seems like a plug for the magazine.  ALthough I 
enjoy it this is not a plug.  I just want a little feedback on the oxygen 
article. 
 As for Dateline, give me a break.  The news shows are no 
different from sitcoms.  They are designed to get a large audience to 
sell commercial time.  Nothing more.  Therefore it would be no surprise 
that the information is biased to play to the audience's preference. 
Just vote by changeing the channel. 
thanks, 
Adam Rich 
 
- -- 
========================================= 
Adam Rich, PhD 
Hoempage: http://www.millcomm.com/~arich/index.html 
Department of Dental Research 
University of Rochester Medical Center 
601 Elmwood Ave, Box 611 
Rochester, NY 14642 
716-275-8751 
========================================= 
 

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From: gravels at TRISMTP.NPT.nuwc.navy.mil
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 10:17:43 EST
Subject: Brewing water

Hi All, 
 
I'm going to try brewing all-grain soon and I need to evaluate my 
brewing water.  I'm not chemically inclined and I know that I've got 
to treat my water before I brew.  I've been trying to get Kenny Eddy's 
Brewater program but it's at aol's ftp site and I can't access it. 
Kenny's e-mail keeps bouncing back.  Can anyone e-mail this file to 
me, or direct me to an http site where I can download it? 
 
Maybe, some kind soul out there could evaluate my water for me and let 
me know what to add for ales and lagers. ;^)  Here's my profile: 
 
            (values in ppm) 
Alkalinity        1 
PH                6.4 
Hardness         14.7 
Sodium            9 
Magnesium         1.3 
Chloride         14.9 
Iron               .09 
Potassium         2.39 
Sulfate          13.4 
Calcium           3.1 
 
Private e-mail is preferred because I've been busy and haven't been 
able to keep up with the digest.  If anyone else is interested in any 
responses I receive, drop me a line.  Thanks in advance to any who 
respond. 
 
                                        Steve 
 
Steve Gravel  Newport, RI 
gravels at trismpt.npt.nuwc.navy.mil 
"Homebrew, it's not just a hobby, it's an adventure!) 
 

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