---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Re: Red Dog - Quasi microbrew- NOT (Brian Coble)
  Dateline Segment (Mark Polnasek)
  Carboy fell over - Still good?  Suggestions (BernardCh at aol.com)
  socket for ball lock keg (bob rogers)
  yadda (bob rogers)
  trub/pumpkin beer (faymi at earlham.edu)
  beer longevity data point (bob rogers)
  glass snobs (Andy Walsh)
  Porter Questions ("Edmund C. Hack")
  DMS removal hot side with sterile air. (Sean Franklin)
  Re: Plastic Fermenters (Paul Mansour)
  [none] (Michael Haring)
  re: aeration ((Bill Giffin))
  Minor Beer Humor (Jim Nasiatka-Wylde)
  Sorghum Beer (Michael Gerholdt)
  Sparging/Lautering... (Darrin Pertschi)
  Yeast Washing ("Bridges, Scott")
  Re:  EasyMasher discussion ((Michael A. Owings))
  Wyeast 1084 problem ("John Penn")
  ChillerGIF COrrection (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  Pumpkin advice / Goldings question (Jerry Cunningham)
  Origin of the Brew/ Carboys versus Plastic /Open Heart's (Rob Moline)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Coble <azfool at cris.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 17:25:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Red Dog - Quasi microbrew- NOT

Homebrew Digest REQUEST Address Only wrote: 
> 
> 
> submissions regarding Red Dog and wether or not it is good or  brewed or 
> owned by whom. 
 
Hey Norway, I was just at Sola Air Base. $7.50 US for a beer! Anyway... 
 
Red Dog is supposed to be brewed by Plank Road Brewry - aka Icehouse 
Beer.I've read in a couple of articles that they ARE Miller no matter 
what they say.  The taste speaks for itself. 
 
Also Miller is being sued by a brewpub in Texas that claims to have a 
patent on the Red Dog name prior to the multi million dollar ad blitz. 
 
I agree with a previous posting in that it doesn't matter who brews it, 
if it's good, but R.D. isn't ( my opinion ). I'd LOVE to see Sierra 
Nevada in every store at the price of Old Milwakee. 

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From: Mark Polnasek <dolt at mnsinc.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:33:26 -0400
Subject: Dateline Segment

        Yeah, I know, this has been beaten to death. But!! Who do you think 
is one of NBC's largest advertisers??  Ford or AB??  Maybe General Motors. 
Could this possibly have anything to do with this story even being 
considered for air? 
                       Mark P.  and I learned a lot from this piece.   NOT! 
(Sorry about that.) 
 
 

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From: BernardCh at aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:35:38 -0400
Subject: Carboy fell over - Still good?  Suggestions

After reading the recent thread on rec.crafts.brewing dealing with breaking 
carboys, handles slipping off, etc., I thought "couldn't happen to me.  Well 
guess what? 
 
I was carrying my carboy of xmas brew from the kitchen down the steps to the 
basement (6 steps, intermediate landing, 180 degree turn, 6 more steps) at 
the 5th step, just before the intermediate landing it happened.  The handle 
slipped off and the carboy fell down the last step and landed on its side on 
the landing on the small area rug covered with dog hair, dead bugs, dirt, 
etc.  As I stood there for a few seconds thinking "oh, the carboy fell over" 
watching beer run out, I finally came to my senses and stood the carboy 
upright.  Of course the airlock fell out so without thinking I put it back 
(kinda wiped it off first).  Lost only about a gallon or so.  Cleaned up the 
mess and carried the carboy down, this time in a milk crate.  Realizing I 
just stuck the airlock and stopper back in, I removed it, swirled it in some 
one step sanitizer and replaced it. 
 
Is this batch hopelessly contaminated?  Should I dump it and start over? 
 Should i wait it out.  Will I eventualy kill myself homebrewing?  if this 
batch turns out OK, what should I call it? 
 
Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated? 
 
TIA 
 
Chuck 
Nashville, TN 
Music City, USA 

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From: bob rogers <bob at carol.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:55:30 -0400
Subject: socket for ball lock keg

my ball locks use 7/8. remember they're 12 point. 
i used a closed end wrench. i had to beat on it to brewk the fitting. 
 
bob: brewing in the heart of the bible belt 
bob rogers   bob at carol.net 
 

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From: bob rogers <bob at carol.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:57:20 -0400
Subject: yadda

yadda = bla (as in bla, bla, bla) 
i.e. we both know what i'm going to say, so i'm not going to waste the time 
actually saying it. 
 
bob: brewing i the heart of the bible belt 
bob rogers   bob at carol.net 
 

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From: faymi at earlham.edu
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:13:01 EST
Subject: trub/pumpkin beer

I've read some passing comments to disadvantages of leaving trub in fermenting 
wort.  What's the scoop on that?  How many of you rack off of trub and to what 
advantage exactly? 
I also would like to brew a pumpkin ale from fresh pumpkin.  I've only gotten 
as far as partial mash-so anybody have a good recipe? 
Michael 

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From: bob rogers <bob at carol.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 23:18:35 -0400
Subject: beer longevity data point

one of my first brews (about 5 years ago) was a john bull stout kit. 
i don't remember much about it, however: 
 
partial boil 
it boiled over 
i think i added (maybe 1oz) hops 
no aeration 
i think it fermented warm 
dry yeast pitched straight to wort 
fermented beer scooped and funneled into bottles 
 
well, i moved and left the case in the basement. a recently fetched bottle 
was drinkable. bad, but drinkable. it had a licorice taste. 
bob rogers   bob at carol.net 
 

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From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 01:17:44 +1000
Subject: glass snobs

Al writes: 
 
>Baloney!  Plastic scratches and is therefore more difficult to sanitize than 
>glass.  Sure the carboys can get dirty and can harbour wild yeast and 
>bacteria, but a one week soak in bleach water (1 tablespoon per gallon) and 
>a 1 minute scrub with a carboy brush takes off all the crud.  You are the 
>first person I've ever heard say that plastic is easier to deal with than 
>glass. 
 
Plastic *is* easier to deal with than glass. 
 
>Glass is fragile and costs more, but it is far easier to sanitize 
>reliably than a plastic fermenter.  Don't tell me you lager in plastic too? 
 
I lager in plastic. Pretty much every homebrewer I know in Sydney 
ferments and lagers in plastic. 
 
>Eight weeks in a plastic fermenter is sure to allow enough oxygen in to 
>oxidise the alcohols to aldehydes.  Yuck!  Ever taste air-pumped megabrew 
>beer the morning after? 
 
This is a very common misconception on the HBD promoted by the glass 
snobs. This does not happen in practice. 
 
All the glass snobs are probably snickering as they read this thinking I 
just don't know any better, and that all of my lagers are full of 
aldehydes and I just don't realise. I think not. (bear with me - I am 
not generally prone to self-promotion, but am forced to, to support my 
argument). I made a Munich Dunkel recently (fermented in plastic for 2 
weeks, lagered for 3 months at 2C in plastic). I took it to our weekly 
club meeting. The head brewer from a local microbrewery was there and 
pronounced it to be the best dunkel he had ever tasted, and asked me for 
a bottle so he could take it along to the guys in the research lab of 
the megabrewery that owned them, for them to try. (they had been 
"researching" dunkels that week - what a great job!). (and no he was not 
having me on). 
 
So I guess my all-plastic dunkel was not as disgusting as the glass 
snobs would make us believe it must be. 
 
I also own glass carboys. I notice no difference in the beer, but 
generally prefer plastic for the following reasons: 
 
- - it is far easier to clean because of the wide mouth (I have been using 
the same plastic fermenters for the last 4 years without replacement.) 
It is not necessary to fill the entire thing and let it soak for a week 
as I find myself doing with glass. 
- - I lager in HDPE cubes that are stackable. I can fit about 6 in one 
fridge. Glass carboys have such an odd shape you could only fit 1. 
- - siphoning is unnecesary as the plastic vessels have spigots in the 
bottom. One of my carboys does as well, but it cost a fortune and is 
difficult to handle physically. 
- - it is inherently safer than glass. One of my friends almost killed 
himself when he dropped his glass carboy - he was badly sliced up and it 
just missed his neck. 
- - plastic can get ingrained infections, but this is very rare if you 
take basic care of it. It has not happened to me yet! (14 years of 
homebrewing in plastic). If it does, it is cheap enough to just buy 
another one. 
 
So to all the glass snobs - ferment in whatever you like, but don't tell 
us plastic boys that we are inferior. Everyone is free to make their own 
choice and you can make great beer with each (now stainless steel - 
that's another story!) 
 
- -- 
Andrew Walsh   CHAD Research Laboratories 
Phone (61 2) 212 6333  5/57 Foveaux Street 
Fax   (61 2) 212 1336  Surry Hills. NSW. 2010 
email awalsh at crl.com.au  Australia. 
 
PS. So why is it OK in practice to lager in plastic, when plastic is 
clearly more oxygen permeable than glass? I'm not sure, but here are 
some thoughts: 
- - the oxygen transfer into the beer through the plastic is *very* slow. 
- - lagering still tends to take place on a reasonable amount of yeast. As 
has been posted many times before, yeast is an excellent reducing agent. 
Megaswill is very prone to oxidation as it is devoid of live yeast. 
 

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From: "Edmund C. Hack" <echack at crl.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 20:16:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Porter Questions

I am planning on brewing a porter on Sunday or Monday and would like 
suggestions on how to get the rich chocolate-like tase and mouthfeel in 
Anchor Porter. Any suggestions or pointers to recipes would be welcome. 
I'm not setup for all grain, but can do a partial mash of a few pounds of 
grain in my oven. 
 
TIA! 
 
Edmund Hack \ "If I had a time machine, 
echack at crl.com\ I know just where I'd go." - Al Stewart 
 

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From: Sean Franklin <seanf at roosters.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:00:44 +0100
Subject: DMS removal hot side with sterile air.

I went to the A-B brewing 'school' out side Currigan Hall in Denver. In 
their process they have a device which passes sterile air against the 
hot wort on the way to the cooler. The theory, according to a helpful A- 
B brewer in the Exhibition Hall was that, at the temperature of the wort 
(near boiling I guess) the oxygen in the air does not touch the wort as 
a layer of vapour lies between the two. The air just speeds up the 
removal of DMS and is worth 30 minutes boiling time. No hot wort 
aeration. 
Apart from a few ill advised digs at contract brewers such as Sam Adams, 
their 'show' was interesting. 
Sean Franklin. Rooster's Brewery & Outlaw Brewing Co. 
Homepage: http://www.breworld.com/rooster/index.html 

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From: Paul Mansour <pmansour at mansours.com.au>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:26:08 -0700
Subject: Re: Plastic Fermenters

Dear All, 
 
I have found it really interesting reading your discussions on plastic 
versus glass primaries. 
 
I am always seeking to increase my home brewing knowledge and try to 
read everything that I can on home brew here in Oz yet I still regard 
myself as a beginner.  However, I often think how strange it is that 
different countries seem to have such different ideas. 
 
Maybe I have been reading out of date material but it seems that it is 
common in the UK to brew in open plastic fermenters.  You would be 
ridiculed if you did that here because EVERYBODY tells you that if you 
don't ferment in a closed system with airlock you will get an infection 
and undrinkable swill.  By the same token it seems that I only read 
about brewers in the US using glass carboys (although I'm sure they must 
use them in other countries).  Although I'm not a member of a club I 
know a lot of home brewers here in Sydney and not one of them brews in 
glass - always plastic. The only advert's that you see here are for 
plastic carboys.  Of course, we don't have an infection problem or 
people wouldn't use them.  I always sterilise with Sodium 
Meta-Bi-Sulphate which is the standard supermarket home brewing 
sterilizer.  For Mr Butter-fingers here, I think using heavy and 
breakable glass fermenters would be a pain in the rear end, but hey, 
EACH TO THEIR OWN. 
 
Its all very interesting, but this forum is ALL ABOUT swapping ideas and 
information (in a friendly manner), so there is always room for 
differing opinions.  Hopefully we will all learn something. 
 
Anyway, as long as the beer is good! 
 
Cheers, 
 
Paul 
 
- --- 
Paul Mansour:    EMAIL:  pmansour at mansours.com.au 
 

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From: Michael Haring <haring at hawaii.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 23:19:30 -1000
Subject: [none]

Howdy, 
 Will a 5L mini keg filled with beer blow up if I take it on a 
plane?  Would I have to sneak it on the plane even if it wont?  What about 
loaded bottles? 
 
 
O ke kahua mamua, mahope ke kukulu.                    Michael Haring 
                                                       145 Kuuhale St. 
                          Kailua, HI 96734 
The site first, and then the building.                 (808) 261-6369 
             haring at hawaii.edu 
- - 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
- ------------------------------ 

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From: bill-giffin at juno.com (Bill Giffin)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:27:23 cst
Subject: re: aeration

Good morning all, 
 
>>Al K said regarding the copper tubing aerator: 
AJ did a test on this and found that it adds very little dissolved 
oxygen. 
Dennis Davison's article in BT confirmed this.  Some yeasts can do well 
with small amounts of O2, others (like the Ringwood yeast) need quite a 
bit more (like 5 times what you get from the copper tube with holes in it 
 
aerator). 
<< 
 
So far I have used most of the yeast the Wyeast has provided as well as 
many from the other yeast labs.  I have never had a difficult 
fermentation with any of these yeast and all the fermentations completed 
in a reasonable time.  So the copper tubing doesn't increase the O2 much 
but it seems to provide enough. 
 
Wort pH, nutrients in the wort, temperature of the wort, and the amount 
of yeast slurry pitch have about as much affect on the fermentation as do 
the amount of O2 in the wort. 
 
Bill 
Richmond, Maine 

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From: Jim Nasiatka-Wylde <Jwylde at interaccess.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:03:10 -0500
Subject: Minor Beer Humor

I doubt if this was actually a real letter, but it is humorous. 
Enjoy. 
 
>> 
>>The following is a letter sent to Miller Brewing Company earlier this 
>>month.  The originator reports he has not yet received a response: 
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>Miller Brewing Company 
>>Milwaukee, Wisconsin  53201 
>> 
>>Dear Sir or Madam, 
>> 
>>I have been a drinker of Miller beer's for many years (actually, ever 
>>since that other company donated a big chunk of change to Handgun 
>>Control Inc.  back in the mid 80's). 
>> 
>>Initially, my beer of choice was Lite, but some time in mid 1990 while 
>>in Honduras I switched to MGD smuggled up from Panama. Now, for 
>>nearly six years, I have been a faithful drinker of MGD. 
>> 
>>For these past years, I have come to expect certain things from Genuine 
>>Draft. I expect that whenever I see that gold can of MGD, I am about 
>>ready to enjoy a great, smooth brew. 
>> 
>>But wait!  Sometime around the first of the year, my beloved MGD 
>>changed colors, so to speak. That familiar gold can was no longer gold! 
>>Knowing that I am, by nature, somewhat resistant to change, I forced 
>>myself to reserve judgment on the new can design. 
>> 
>>Gradually, I grew to appreciate the new label. 
>> 
>>That was until about May of this year.  That was when I discovered 
>>(empirically) that I really didn't like the new design.  Further 
>>investigation of the cause of my distress resulted in the following 
>>observations: 
>> 
>>1. Your cans are made of aluminum. 
>>2. Aluminum is a great conductor of energy. 
>>3. Your beer is commonly consumed outside, and thus, the container may 
>>   be exposed to sunlight. 
>>4. Sunlight striking the can causes radiant warming of the surface of 
>>   the can. 
>>5. The resultant heat (energy) is transferred through the aluminum, by 
>>   conduction, to the contents of the can (the beer). 
>>6. Warm beer sucks. 
>> 
>>This is a process that can be observed in just about any beer. 
>>However, this process is significantly accelerated in MGD because you 
>>painted the damn can black!!! 
>> 
>>Who was the rocket scientist that designed the new graphic for the can 
>>andimplemented the change right before summer?  Granted, this process 
>>may not be real evident up there in Wisconsin, but down here in Oklahoma 
>>(OR TEXAS) where the summers are both sunny and hot, this effect is 
>>quite a problem. There's no telling what the folks in Texas and Arizona 
>>are having to put up with. 
>> 
>>Knowing that you would probably not address this issue unless you had 
>>firm evidence of a problem, I and several other subjects conducted 
>>extensive experimentation.  The results of these experiments are listed 
>>below. 
>> 
>>The experiments were conducted over two days on the deck next to my 
>>pool. The study included seven different types of beer (leftovers from 
>>a party the previous weekend) that were initially chilled to 38 (and 
>>then left exposed to sunlight for different lengths of time.  These 
>>beers were sampled by the test subjects at different intervals.  The 
>>subjects, all normally MGD drinkers, were asked at each 
>>sampling interval their impressions of the different beers. 
>> 
>>The length of time between the initial exposure to sunlight and the 
>>point where the subject determined the sample undrinkable (the 
>>Suckpoint)was determined.  The average ambient temperature for the 
>>trials was 95 degrees F. 
>> 
>> 
>>    Beer Type                        Average Suckpoint (min) 
>>    Miller Lite (white can)                      6.2 
>>    Bud (white can)                              5.5 
>>    Bud Lite (silver can)                        5.2 
>>    Ice House (blue and silver can)              4.4 
>>    Coors Lite (silver can)                      4.1 
>>    Miller Genuine Draft (black can)             2.8 
>>    Coors (gold can)                             0.1 
>> 
>>It was evident that the color of the can directly correlates to the 
>>average suckpoint, except for Coors which was pretty much determined to 
>>suck at any point. 
>> 
>>It is to be hoped that you will consider re-designing your MGD cans. 
>>All beer drinkers that are not smart enough to keep their beer in the 
>>shade will thank you. 
>> 
>>Sincerely, 
>> 
>>Bradley Lee 
>>Beer-drinker 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> 
>>I have a friend that works for Miller Brewing in Milwaukee and she knew 
>>about the letter sent in by Bradley Lee.  She sent me the Miller 
>>response and it appears below.  She says they have had a lot of fun with 
>>this guys letter. 
>>Enjoy. 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>> 
>>Dear Bradley Lee, 
>> 
>>Thank you for your letter and your concern about the MGD can color as 
>>it relates to premature warming of the contents.  Like you, we at Miller 
>>Beer take beer drinking very seriously.  To that end, we have taken your 
>>letter and subsequent experiment under serious consideration.  Outlined 
>>below are our findings and solution to your problem.  May we add that we 
>>have had similar letters from other loyal beer drinkers, mostly from the 
>>Southern United States. 
>> 
>>First, let us congratulate you on your findings.  Our analysis tends to 
>>agree with yours regarding Coors.  It certainly does suck at about any 
>>temperature. 
>> 
>>Now, it was our intentions when redesigning the MGD can to create 
>>better brand identity and brand loyalty.  Someone in marketing did some 
>>kind of research and determined we needed to redesign the can.  You will 
>>be pleased to know, we have fired that idiot and he is now reeking havoc 
>>at a pro-gun control beer manufacturer.  The design staffer working in 
>>cahoots with the marketing idiot was also down-sized. 
>> 
>>However, once we realized this mistake, to undo it would have been even 
>>a bigger mistake.  So, we took some other actions.  From our market 
>>research, we found a difference between Northern beer drinker and 
>>Southern beer drinkers. 
>> 
>>Beer drinkers in the South tend to drink slower than beer drinkers in 
>>the North.  We are still researching why that is.  Anyway, at Miller 
>>Beer,it was never our intentions to have someone take more than 2.5 minutes 
>>to enjoy one of our beers.  We pride ourselves in creating fine, smooth, 
>>quick drinking beers and leave the making of sissy, slow sipping beers to 
>>that Sam guy in Boston. 
>> 
>>However, it is good to know that you feel our Miller Lite can last as 
>>long as 6 minutes.  However, may we suggest in the future you try consuming 
>>at 
>>least two in that time frame. 
>> 
>>>From your letter, we had our design staff work 'round the clock to come 
>>up with a solution that would help not just MGD but all our fine Miller 
>>products.  We hope you have recently noticed our solution to your problem. 
>>We found that the hole in the top of the can was not big enough for quick 
>>consumption.  So, we have now introduced the new "Wide Mouth" cans.We 
>>hope this will solve all your problems.  Might I also suggest that if you 
>>want to get the beer out of the can even faster,  you can poke a hole on 
>>the side near the bottom, hold your finger over it, open the can, tip it 
>>to your mouth and then pull your finger off the hole.  This is a commonway 
>>to drink beer at parties and impress your friends. This technique is 
>>known as "shot-gunning".  You should like the name. 
>> 
>>Again, thank you for your letter and bring to our attention that there 
>>might be other beer drinkers taking more that 2.5 minutes to drink our 
>>beers.  Let me assure you that I'll have our advertising department 
>>work on campaign to solve this problem, too. 
>> 
>>Sincerely, 
>> 
>> 
>>Tom B. Miller 
>>Public Relations 
>>Miller Brewing Co. 
 
All the money in the world is no match for hard work and ingenuity... 
 ____ 
 \  /   Nothing is so strong as Gentleness;       JWylde at interaccess.com 
  \/       nothing so gentle as real strength           Nasiatka at anl.gov 
 

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From: Michael Gerholdt <gerholdt at ait.fredonia.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 08:33:58 -0500
Subject: Sorghum Beer

Some email responses to my post on Sorghum Beer might be of interest to 
those following this thread. 
 
Braam writes: 
 
Micheal 
 
I read your posting and I must admit it is quite funny to me. 
 
I live in Pretoria, South Africa. I have never tried one of these  sorghum 
brews myself and does not intend to do it.A friend of mine  owns a liquor 
store and he sells a lot of it. It keeps on fermenting  in the packages that 
they sell it. This brings out the smell as well  and it sometimes carries 
through the liquor shop. 
 
Anyway, I take my hat of for you to make and drink something like  this. If 
you ever want to make a trip to South Africa make sure to  contact me, maybe 
you can visit us or just have a few  beers with us somewhere. 
 
Cheers 
Braam Greyling 
 
========== 
 
And Rian Rademeyer writes: 
 
Hi Michael, 
 
This stuff is legendary here in Southern Africa. It was/is made by the wives 
of the tribe and is highly nutritious with low alchohol content. 
Unfortunately the trend of urbanisation has led to a move to megaswill clear 
beer. I have drunk sorghum beer  and it is very sour to the uninitiated. It 
was served in a kalabash (dried gourd) but is now sold by breweries in 
cartons like milk or in packets of dry meal and is prepared at home. The 
sorghum flour makes the beer thick and viscous and at times lumpy. There are 
stories of old radio batteries being thrown in to add acid, but I doubt this 
.  I will buy one to remind myself of the flavour. 
 
We have a lady who works for us and she also takes sour milk and mixes this 
with Corn meal and allows this to putrify and then dinks it. It is vile, yet 
very healthy. I can't stand the smell of it and have never been able to 
taste it. 
 
I gave her husband some of my homebrew and it knocked him out(5%) as he was 
not used to it, so it is banned in her house. 
 
Keep brewing 
 
 
Rian Rademeyer 
 
=================================== 
 
Also, Almero sent the following. I'll reproduce it in full because though it 
isn't all directly pertinent to sorghum beer, there is some info that might 
be of interest to someone. 
 
Hi 
I quite enjoy reading Homebrew Digest and have downloaded every 
single copy since 1988. I must admit that what I know about brewing 
beer is mostly thanks to the HBD with a little help from TNCJOHB 
and other books. I am currently in the process of building a 
beer engine to convert to allgrain. We in South Africa are quite 
familiar with Sorghum Beer as it is the national drink of most of the 
black people. In fact you will find a kit form of this brew in 99% of 
all foodshops in the country and there is quite a variety of 
brandnames. I have experimented with this stuff myself and came up 
with a few drinkable variations. We have a product, actually two 
which is unique to our country, namely two herbal teas that have lots 
of those gastly vitamins and other goodly stuff and quite unique 
tastes as well. I do not know if these are available in the good 'ol 
US of A maybe I can mail jou some. The one product is called 
"rooibos" tea translated it says "red bush tea" the other is a 
honeybush tea and both are used in making an absolutely superb 
gingerbeer. They also take very nicely to malt. We are just lacking 
good yeast straints for brewing, otherwise we have enough of just 
about everything to make good beer. 
Let me know if you are interested in any info or products from 
halfway down under in RSA 
Bi 
Almero 
RELATIVITY (Three beers for Einstein ...Hop Hop Brewray!!) 
A drop of P.. on my shoe is relatively little 
A drop of P.. in my beer is relatively much. 
 
================================================== 
 
Is there anyone in Africa who drinks sorghum beer on a regular basis who can 
comment from a different perspective? 
 
Thanks, Braam, Rian and Almero! 
- -- 
 

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From: Darrin Pertschi <darrinp at cowles.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:25:15 -0400
Subject: Sparging/Lautering...

From all the testimonials as of late, I feel like I'm missing the boat. So, I 
am on my way to grain brewing. I want to do some partial mashes to start. 
I'm pretty comfortable with the infusion mash procedure, but I'm uneasy 
with the sparging/lautering sequence. Would anyone care to help me (and 
any other lurkers) with a elementary, step-by-step sparging lesson? 
 
For my partials, I intend to mash in an enamel pot on the stove (will 
probably insulate, EasyMasher to come). I plan to sparge from my 
bottling bucket which is fitted with a plastic spigot and a 6.5 gal. 'sparging 
bag'. My primary quandaries are: 
 
- -Should my sparge bucket be insulated? 
- -Is it unimportant how much foundation water goes in my bucket before 
adding the mash? 
- -With this giant sparge bag, should I let it go to the bottom of bucket or 
suspend it a few inches? 
- -Do I recirculate *before* I ever introduce any sparge water? 
- -If my goal of recirculating is to get clear run off; how is it people report 
only recirculating a quart or so. I estimate my first batch with 6.85 lb of 
grain will have 7 quarts of mash water, plus maybe a gallon or so of 
foundation. How will recirculating such a small amount provide clear run 
off? 
- -once I'm ready to introduce the sparge water, what do I do? Open the 
spigot (which is directed to boil pot) just a little bit and just start 
sprinkling the sparge water in? 
- -how much sparge water/when to stop? Half gal. per pound of grain, or 
until I get pH level around 6-6.4? 
- -What should the pH of my sparge water be? 
- -Finally, when will this all click and become second nature? 
 
I basically understand the principles, I just don't want to abuse my 
grains/wort due to ignorance. Naturally I want my first endeavor to be 
world class and nothing less. Great steins of gratitude to all those who 
reply..... 
 
- --------------- 
Darrin in Central PA 
Proprietor--Simpleton's Cosmic Brewery 
- --------------------------------------------- 
You never know just how you look through other peoples eyes. <B.H.S.> 

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From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess at mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 10:02:00 PDT
Subject: Yeast Washing

 
 
>From: "Genito, Michael A." <mgenito at ci.rye.ny.us> 
>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 09:20:22 -0400 
>Subject: Yeast Storage in Water 
> 
>For over a year now, I've recovered yeast from slurry and saved it in 
>preboiled, (not distilled water) for periods up to eight months without 
>any problems. In fact, the stored yeast seems to start quicker and 
>settle out more quickly than its original Wyeast packet. 
> 
>[good description of yeast washing deleted] 
> 
>BTW, I also know this is nothing new - it is called yeast washing. The 
>point here is that even the most basic homebrewer can store yeast in 
>preboiled undistilled water and still achieve success. 
 
This reminds me of a question on yeast washing.  Michael's process sounds 
pretty straight-forward and easy to do.  There has been a little previous 
discussion on acid washing, but there hasn't been much in the way of process 
for that.  I have some phosphoric acid for acidifying my sparge water.  I've 
been wanting to try acid washing but I don't know how to do it.  Anybody 
ever do this?  I've been told that acid washing is like chemotherapy for the 
yeast.  You end up with a clean crop, but it damn near kills them in the 
process.  Is this true?  Is the benefit of acid washing worth the hassle and 
risk to the yeast? 
 
Scott 
 
 
 

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From: mikey at waste.com (Michael A. Owings)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:36:21 GMT
Subject: Re:  EasyMasher discussion

 
Alex wrote: 
>  A.K. pointed out, heat loss can be a problem using the EasyMasher with= 
=20 
> typical brew kettle. I've done one batch with it so far and was pleased= 
=20 
> with how well it went, but maintaining a given temperature as well as=20 
> keeping it even throughout the mash was difficult. I used = 
almost-boiling=20 
> water for the sparge and was never in danger of overheating the mash. I= 
=20 
> probably will use a more typical sparge water temperature once I come = 
up=20 
> with a solution for insulating the kettle.=20 
 
Not to nitpick,  but note that this is not a problem with the 
EasyMasher per-se,  but with the kettle used,  particularly if you're 
using the 8.5 gal enamel-on-steel kind.  I used to use one of these 
and had significant heat loss.  I moved up to a stainless mash-tun 
(with an easymasher installed) recently.  I also began using a 
hot-water heater blanket doubled over and cut into a cylindrical 
jacket to fit over the tun during rests.  I also cut a top to fit over 
the pot lid during rests.  With this arrangement,  heat loss is pretty 
nil.  YMMV -- note that ambient temps will greatly affect the amount 
of heat the pot will retain. =20 
 
Also,  these hot water blankets contain fiberglass insulation -- take 
care that none makes it into the mash (this has not been a problem for 
me,  just a thought).  To summarize:  insulate your mash-tun.  Jackets 
made from hot water heater blankets are cheap and easy (one blanket 
runs about 6-8 dollars US).  If you're really into it,  you can build 
an insulated box as suggested by Dave Miller.   Cheers -- mikey=20 
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 
Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.The = 
courage 
to change the things I can. *** And the wisdom to hide the bodies of the = 
people=20 
I had to kill because they pissed me off *** 

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From: "John Penn" <john_penn at spacemail.jhuapl.edu>
Date: 18 Oct 1996 10:20:22 -0400
Subject: Wyeast 1084 problem

                       Subject:                               Time:10:09 AM 
  OFFICE MEMO          Wyeast 1084 problem                    Date:10/18/96 
 
   I went to pop my Wyeast 1084 yeast pack this morning and had trouble 
popping it.  Eventually I got it to pop but so did the foil pack.  A very 
small trickle of wort/nutrients squirted out of the foil pack.  It's an 
incredibly small opening and you'd have to squeeze the pack to get anything 
out of it.  But, its disconcerting and I don't know what to do.  The pack 
won't be able to swell up but I hope the exiting CO2 displaces anything from 
getting into the foil pack.  I'm wondering if I should pitch it in my starter 
since I don't think anything can get in.  Then I'd smell and taste my starter 
before repitching?  Should I demand a replacement pack from my local homebrew 
store?  Any ideas.  TIA. 
   John Penn 
 
 

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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:07:57 -0400
Subject: ChillerGIF COrrection

If you had trouble connecting to KJ's Chiller GIF zip file on my ftp site, 
well, um, you might have had some trouble.  I've fixed the error so that the 
URL given last time (HBD2235) is now correct: 
 
ftp://members.aol.com/kennyeddy/immersion/chillergif.zip 
 
Sorry for the oops. 
 
***** 
 
Ken Schwartz 
El Paso, TX 
KennyEddy at aol.com 
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy 
 

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From: Jerry Cunningham <gcunning at Census.GOV>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:14:17 -0400
Subject: Pumpkin advice / Goldings question

I've made two all-grain pumpkin ales. Although my recipe was 
very different from what you're thinking about, I may be able 
to give you (or other potential pumkin-heads) some mashing/sparging 
advice: 
 
How _not_ to do it: 
 
On last years' batch I used canned pumpkin in the mash (it was early 
September, and I couldn't find whole pumpkins). I did a single 
infusion, ~10 lbs. 2-row base malt with about 6 lbs. of canned pumpkin. 
Canned pumpkin is a nightmare to sparge! I had to scoop out my cooler 
clean my copper manifold twice! If you want details, search the archives 
for "My Pumpkin Mash From Hell" (or something like that). 
 
I've seen many recipes (some in Cats Meow, I think) where people 
put canned pumpkin _in the boil_! I never understood this - I'd think 
that it would just be a starchy mess. 
 
 
How to do it: 
 
This year I was determined to use whole, cooked, pumpkin. I was also 
determined to avoid "My Pumpkin Mash From Hell II". I bought 2 cooking 
pumpkins (slightly smaller than a vollyball), about 7 lbs. Baked them 
at 350F for one hour, and scooped out the pumpkin meat with a large 
spoon. I left the meat in spoon-sized pieces rather than mashing it with a 
potato masher. I did a two-stage mash this time with 6-row malt, with malt 
only for the protein rest (add the pumpkin when you boost to sach. temp). The 
sparge went very smoothly - I left the pumpkin pieces towards the top of 
the grain bed and didn't stir (I probably sacrificed some extraction, but 
the sparge didn't stick! I don't think you get much in the way of 
fermentables from the pumpkin anyway - I got maybe 6 pts. in a 5 gallon 
batch, both years). 
 
Racked it to the secondary the other day, and it's a beautiful, clear, 
orange color. 
 
***** 
 
Tonight I'm gonna brew an ESB. I wanted to go with all Britsh ingredients, 
since I got my hands on some Maris Otter, but I couldn't find any whole East 
Kent Goldings. I did get some "Goldings" from Freshops, which are supposedly 
"East Kent Goldings that are grown over here". That's how it was explained 
to me, anyway. Are these similar to the real thing? Does anybody have any 
experience they can pass on? 
 
Thanks, 
 
- - Jerry Cunningham 
  Annapolis, MD 
 
 
 

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From: Rob Moline <brewer at kansas.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:47:59 -0500
Subject: Origin of the Brew/ Carboys versus Plastic /Open Heart's

>From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> 
>Subject: IPA 
>If A-B or whatever convinces the public that knowing where 
>your brew is produced is important, then that makes brewpubs 
>and homebrewers come out on top.  When you're looking at 
>the brewery while sipping your favorite IPA, you don't have 
>to worry about where it was made.   And how far it was shipped. 
>What do you think Jethro? 
 
        I agree that brewpubs and homebrewers enjoy the advantage in terms 
of 'freshness' and origin. But it really all boils down to marketing. A-B 
wants 'truth in labeling' regarding origin, Sam Adams wanted 'freshness 
dating,' a call that has been championed lately by A-B. (I believe even 
Bud's latest attempt at 'education,' warns consumers away from 'skunky beer' 
stating that this is an oxidation reaction and is time based, rather than a 
light strike reaction and poor handling based.) Face the music, guys, the 
vast majority of the public doesn't know a lager from an ale, and the 
majority of their learning curve comes from TV and radio ads. But slowly 
picking up steam is the micro and BP business, the majority of whom cut 
their teeth in homebrewing. It is at such 'grass-roots' or local levels that 
the real beer revolution and education is flowing. To me the only really 
well educated populace will be the next generation that grows up with BP's 
on every corner, and homebrew in the household. (But then, they will 
probably reject the previous generations preferences and drink nothing but 
Bud! Lager louts!) 
        If you look at freshness dating, it appears to be a noble concept, 
but what does it really mean in terms of different beers? An American 
pilsener may indeed need to tossed after 120 days, but what about beers like 
Big 12 Barleywine? It is my feeling that it should easily last and continue 
to improve for a decade or more! (As long as it is packaged properly and 
stored correctly.) I am fortunate to be the owner of a bottle of "Ballantine 
Burton Ale,' brewed in 1946, bottled in 1961. This beer, (locked in safe 
deposit box, so don't break into my house looking for it!) intact in the 
original bottle, despite being over 50 years old, is one of the most highly 
sought after brews on the planet, only perhaps second to anything raised 
from the Titanic, or the boat raised from the Thames River some years ago. 
        I'm all for freshness dating, with variations that account for the 
individual beer and style, but the sad truth is that without the base 
knowledge homebrewers have, the public will be subject to half truths 
delivered in marketing wars. "Your mission, Mr. Homebrewer, if you decide to 
accept it, is to get the truth out!" 
        But,  I am like anybody else, I'll buy a beer once to try and only 
twice if I like it. While interested in the origin as an intellectual 
pursuit, I don't care if Bozo the clown brewed it, as long as it tastes 
good! And I do happen to believe that whatever else you may say about Mr. 
Koch, he has a good product, Boston Lager, wherever it was brewed. 
 
Carboys versus Plastic- I am a supporter of glass carboys for primary and 
secondary. I know many great brewers who feel the opposite, I just think 
glass is easier to deal with and isn't a hassle to clean. LOTS of clorox, 
like 3 cups per carboy in storage reduces krausen stains to non-existence, 
and the bloody thing is ready to go, following rinsing. The fellas I know 
who use plastic feel the same way about their practices and make great beer; 
it's just personal preferences! Just my .02. 
 
>From: michael j dix <mdix at dcssc.sj.hp.com> 
>Subject: Contract vs Micro - Better Sanitation? 
> 
>It used to be said that all microbrewed beer was infected, the 
>difference was only in degree. In fact, I heard Dr. Michael Lewis 
>say that in Davis, several years ago.  In contrast, Dr. Lewis 
>went on to say, the level of sanitation at a large commercial brewery, 
>such as the AB brewery in nearby Fairfield, was far greater than in 
>any operating room. (So much so, that were he to need open-heart 
>surgery, he would request it done at Anheuser-Busch.) 
 
        Which only goes to show that Dr. Lewis may know about beer, but not 
much regarding surgery. If I need open heart surgery, you can bet your butt 
that I will insist on 'sterilization', not sanitation. And positive pressure 
air systems in the room, and isolated electrical systems, gowns, gloves and 
masks, etc, none of which I have seen at an A-B plant. 
 
Jethro (R.N, N.S.W.; Certified Surgical Tech) Gump 
 
Cheers! 
Rob Moline 
Little Apple Brewing Company 
Manhattan, Kansas 
 
"The more I know about beer, the more I realize I need to know more about 
beer!"
 

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