---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Re: A List Of Mail - Order Stores ((Kevin Woolard))
  Guinness (Tim.Watkins at analog.com)
  Bergamot/freezing pt/RO/Poly clear ("Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM")
  re: whole hop dregs (thomas w kavanagh)
  RE: Sorghum Beer: The Ongoing Saga (Bill Ridgely 301-827-1391 FAX 301-827-3053)
  re:how long is long enough ((Charles Burns))
  Back to the Front (RUSt1d?)
  Double Decoction Mash (Russ Brodeur)
  Plastic buckets ((Brian Pickerill))
  HBD & AOB ("Bryan L. Gros")
  AHA Bashing (ThE-HoMeBrEw-RaT)
  MORE on the glass/plastic thing (Rick Olivo)
  Fwd: Sorghum (Michael Gerholdt)
  15 gall keg hole cutting (Ian Smith)
  Don't boil in a scorched pot!! ((Mike Spinelli))
  GABF policies (Kelly Jones)
  Thoughts from a newbie (Cuchulain Libby)
  Schofferhofer Hefeweizen (Brett Anthony Shorten)
  shutup blabbermouth! (Andy Walsh)
  AHA/Low grav/plastic/A-B (Charles Capwell)
  RE:RE: the plastic debate..... (The Holders)
  carbonator caps (SCHNUPP_JOHN/FOX1_00 at amat.com)
  Brewpot/Fermenter Size (Michael Brytowski)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: kev at flyer.gvg.tek.com (Kevin Woolard)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 11:13:28 PDT
Subject: Re: A List Of Mail - Order Stores

 
YES! I live in a rural area and would love to find a reliable mail order source
for brewing stuff. Anyone have any favorites? Direct e-mail me back please.
 
Thanks, Kevin 
 

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From: Tim.Watkins at analog.com
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 14:00:00 EDT
Subject: Guinness

John Penn wrote: 
 
>Guiness:   About 16 or 17 years ago a college friend who had stayed in 
>England for the summer had me try his favorite beer, Guiness Stout.  He 
>was very disappointed that it didn't taste like the Guiness he had in 
>England.   I couldn't drink the whole thing the first time and even 
>though I drink it occasionally now I think I prefer a smoother Irish 
>Stout like Murphy's.  At any rate, after reading so much about Guiness 
>and how different the draft version is, I finally had Guiness Stout on 
>draft at Rose & Crown Pub in Lewes, Delaware and I'm glad I did.  It had 
>a creamy head that stayed with it and was smoother and certainly less 
>alcoholic than the bottled version.  Very different and distinctive. 
>Sorry for the BW, hope someone else had a similar experience with their 
>first Guiness Stout draft and can relate. 
 
 I for one can certainly relate to this.  Although I did it in reverse 
order.  I thought the Guinness served in the US was damn good, one of my 
favorite beers of all time.  Recently, I had the fortunate opportunity to 
travel to Ireland (on business).  There, I realized the difference between 
real Guinness and the stuff they serve over here.  The draft they serve 
over here is no match, and the bottles and cans do it no justice 
whatsoever. 
 
   Tim 

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From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM" <GoodaleD at HOOD-EMH3.ARMY.MIL>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:37:00 -0500
Subject: Bergamot/freezing pt/RO/Poly clear

HBDers, 
 
1.  First let me thank all of you who squared me away on that 
whole Bee-balm/bergamot thing.  I now know much more than I 
wanted to about them.  I'm currently looking for either in health 
food stores.  If anyone has a source around the central Texas 
area (Temple, Austin, Waco), I'd appreciate if you could fill me 
in.  I'll keep the HBD posted on my progress. 
 
2.  I've been lagering in my refrigerator without one 
of those high speed regulators.  The temperature dips below 
32 degrees F on a regular basis (20 dF on a cold day).  What 
temperature does beer freeze?  Am I going to end up with a 
5 gallon beerscicle one of these days? 
 
3.  RO= Reverse Osmosis 
 
4.  I've read that polyclear can get rid of starch haze. 
Should I use this for my starchy partial mashes to get a more 
shelf stable beer? 
 
Tanks 
 
Daniel Goodale (yes that's my real name) 
 
The Biohazard Brewing Company 
I like to think of myself as a chemical super-freak. 

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From: thomas w kavanagh <tkavanag at indiana.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:40:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: re: whole hop dregs

 
Matt Hughes <mhughes at qualcomm.com> wrote 
 
>I tried using whole hops for the first time in an IPA yesterday, ...Then 
>I went to siphon off the beer into my fermentor ... disaster! I gave the 
>beer a good whirl and let everything settle out, then started siphoning. 
>I got about 3.5 gallons of beer, and that was the end! There was a MASSIVE 
>layer of hops, hot break, etc probably 3 inches deep in the bottom of my 
>brew kettle! I estimate that there was at LEAST a gallon of liquid still 
>in the bottom, probably 1.5 gallons. 
 
>It pains me to waste that much good beer! My question, then, is whether 
>there is a reasonable way to retrieve as much beer as possible from the 
>stuff at the bottom of the kettle. The whole hops made a huge difference 
>in how much beer I wasted ... 
 
I have a copper manifold which I use both in the mash tun and then move to 
the kettle, and I use my own home grown hops just thrown in loose. Yes, it 
does leave dregs, usually about a half gallon, but I pour that through a 
large funnel with filter, then bring that back to a boil to resanitize it, 
and hot-can it in Ball jars as a starter for my next yeast. 
 
tk 
 

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From: Bill Ridgely 301-827-1391 FAX 301-827-3053 <RIDGELY at A1.CBER.FDA.GOV>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 15:28:30 EST
Subject: RE: Sorghum Beer: The Ongoing Saga

In HBD #2241, Michael Gerholdt writes about his sorghum beer 
drinking experiences: 
 
        >One thing I noticed ... after only a couple sips, I 
        >could feel the fusel alcohols knocking on the brain 
        >cells ... very lowgrade headache was fairly immediate. I 
        >drank about 12 oz of the stuff. The headache didn't get 
        >very bad; it was just there. 
 
        >Any thoughts as to why there are fusel alcohols present? 
 
I haven't had this experience drinking my own sorghum beer or the 
real thing in the field, and I've consumed a fair amount of the 
stuff :-). 
 
I did read back through Michael's posts and found that he pitched 
his yeast when his wort temperature was 108 degrees F. This is a 
bit high, and I suspect some higher alcohols may have been 
formed during the initial fermentation. 
 
Michael also asks: 
 
        >Isn't there still someone out there who is also making 
        >sorghum beer? I've seen one other report besides mine, 
        >and I thought there were three ... 
 
 
Michael Beck reported on his brewing experiments in HBD #2221. 
The third recipient of sorghum malt from the "Michel Vandenplas 
Grant" was Matt Grady, whom we haven't heard from yet. I think 
Russell Mast also planned to try his luck using some home-malted 
sorghum. Any luck, Russell? 
 
I'll be brewing again using a Zulu recipe sometime next week (in 
preparation for a visit from Michel and his family). I haven't 
tried this recipe yet. Wendy and I acquired it from a Zulu woman 
during our travels in S. Africa. It uses wheat and corn meal as 
adjuncts in place of the more traditional millet. I'll post the 
results after the product gets taste-tested. 
 
Bill Ridgely 
Alexandria, VA 
 
 

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From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 12:49 PDT
Subject: re:how long is long enough

Mark Tumarkin (hbd 2234) about aging. 
 
I have found that the beers I make that have very strong flavor accents to 
them, taste much better after a month or two. An Espresso Stout with 1/2 
pound of espresso beans steeped at the end of the boil was so powerful I 
couldn't drink it for a month. Same with a Smoked Scotch Ale, but after 2 
months its really good. 
 
On the other hand, I made a Strawberry Blonde last summer (i can't believe 
summer is gone already) that needed to be consumed quickly, because the very 
light strawberry flavor disappeared fairly quickly. 
 
So, its a matter of what you've got, I don't think there is any sort of 
general guideline other than maybe "if its too 
strong/bitter/astringent/etc., give it a month or two to mellow out". 
 
My 2 cents worth. 
 
Charlie 
 
and what lauter FAQ (Al)? 
- --------------------------------------------------------------- 
Charles Burns, Director, Information Systems 
Elk Grove Unified School District 
cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us, http://www.egusd.k12.ca.us 
916-686-7710 (voice), 916-686-4451 (fax) 
http://www.el-dorado.ca.us/~cburns/ 
 

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From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at li.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 15:49:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Back to the Front

I'm back from the honeymoon in N'awlins and had a great time dispite 
having to drink low hopped lagers for a week straight and a case of 
food poisoning. SNPA is not distributed to NO, I think that have an 
anti-hop law. Turbodog was not bad, and was the only decent ale 
I could find on draft. Located Guiness right off of Bourbon St. at a 
place called Monahans and it was horrible! Tasted like caramel. 
 
The brew pubs there pretty much blow.  Crescent City Brew house had a 
decent fest and the wife loved the hefe-weizen (which was their only 
ale).  Abita Brew pub had some ales on tap.  Their ESB was oknotgreat. 
They even had a malt liquor (I didn't ask, it sucked).  The wife loved 
their Purple Haze (raspberry american wheat). I tried Acadia's brews 
but was once again lost in lagerville. For some strange reason, none of 
the beers are called by their style down there.  A Pilsner is a gold, 
a Vienna an amber, and so on. In fact, I think almost every beer I had 
down there had a colour in the name ('cept Turbodog, which was a porter). 
 
Much like Mr. Rust, my homebrew wedding when well with 6 cornys being 
tapped, 5 being conquered. The OktoberAle was favorite. 
 
As if you care, 
 
John Varady           http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady/index.html 
Boneyard Brewing Co.           "The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program" 
"Ale today, Gone tomorrow." 
 

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From: Russ Brodeur <r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:27:25 -0400
Subject: Double Decoction Mash

> From: smurman at best.com in hbd#2241: 
> ...  The second decoction was then pulled, boiled, and returned to 
> reach 167F. 
 
This should have been a "thin" decoction for mash-out.  Did you pull the 
thinnest part of the mash?  If not, you run the risk of bursting 
unconverted starch granules, which at 167 F, will not be converted since 
all the amylases have been denatured and lead to starch haze in your 
beer. 
> 
> I was aiming for 150F based on the double 
> decoction schedule from Noonan's book New Brewing Lager Beer <<NBLB>>. > I've
seen many other temps given here, and that's understandable. Why > does Noonan 
suggest 150F?
 
A single saccharification rest at 150 F should produce moderately-high 
wort fermentability.  The 167 F rest is for mash-out.  I haven't read 
the "NBLB", but in the original "BLB" by Noonan he suggested different 
strike temps depending on the style.  They only varied by a deg F or so, 
which is awfully tough for the hb'er to control, IMHO.  YOu may want to 
consider a 2-step decoction with rests at 140-45 F and 155-60 F (plus 
mash-out at 167 F).  By varying the ratio of times spent in these 
temperature ranges you can easily alter the fermentability of the wort 
to suit your taste.  The decoction process provides a large supply of 
gelatinized starch and dextrines which can easily be converted to 
fermentable sugars by beta-amylase in the 140-5 F range. 
 
As for color, you're probably right about its relation to boil time, 
especially in the concentrated wort of the decoction.  I wouldn't be 
worried about it though.  I have brewed very pale beers using decoction 
schedules.  I try to minimize the concentrated wort boil times in these 
beers and don't begin boiling the soon-to-be-bitter wort until all the 
runnings have been collected.  I have heard it mentioned, although I do 
not have any personal experience, that a long boil in the mash-out 
decoction will enhance the "malty-toasty" flavor characteristic of the 
wort, which would be great for Marzens, dunkels, alts, etc.  I'd like to 
look into this further, but decoction mashing takes long enough as it 
is.  Unfortunately this is a hobby, not a vocation. 
 
TTFN 
Russ Brodeur in Franklin, MA 

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From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 15:35:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Plastic buckets

In #2240, Al Korzonas said: 
 
>Since I don't know much about plastic bucket manufacturing 
>(although I know two guys in the Chicago Beer Society and 
>one in Brewers of South Suburbia who work in injection moulding, 
>so I could ask them if anyone really cares) so I can only speculate 
 
Al, you obviously are behind in reading the HBD.  Jethro described in 
detail the manufacturing process in #2239: 
 
>        In Australia, the plastic fermenting pails are ever so gently turned 
>in a lathe with decreasing grades of ever finer grit paper, such that there 
>is never a scratch evident to harbour bacteria!!! And everyone knows that in 
>the Southern hemisphere, the O2 concentration is less than in the Northern 
>Hemisphere, (less cars, and trees, you know!)...therefore less available O2 
>to permeate!!! (except in Melbourne!!) 
 
There is some debate, however, about whether the buckets are manufactured 
in Oz or in Twaiwan.  (Andy Walsh says they are all manufactured in 
Taiwan.) BTW, Andy would you know the correct speed for the turntable to 
effectively counteract the Coriolis force?  I hope 45 RPM (Man, and I glad 
we don't have metric TIME to deal with!) is fast enough.  My old 78 RPM 
turntable is in the shop. 
 
- --Brian Pickerill (Ever so slowly catching on to the wonders of homebrewing...)
 
 

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From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:18:21 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: HBD & AOB

Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU> writes: 
> 
>I think based on what is happening at the AHA now that that HBD be moved from 
>the AOB server. 
 
Jim, exactly what do you see is happening at the AHA? 
 
You posted last week that James Spence was fired, but with no reasons given, 
either speculative or official, what conclusions should we draw? 
 
You want to be more specific?  I'm curious. 
 
          - Bryan 
            grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu 
            Nashville, TN 
 

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From: ThE-HoMeBrEw-RaT <skotrat at wwa.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:00:17 -0500
Subject: AHA Bashing

>From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU> 
>Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:05:09 -0700 (MST) 
>Subject: AHA Bashing 
> 
CUT SNIP EDIT... 
 
>If the AHA has the attitude of getting rid of who ever does 
>not serve their political agenda then I think there is no reason to use their 
>server. 
 
Cool, Let's go for it. The HBD has had nothing but problems since moving as 
far as I am concerned. Maybe getting the HBD back on track would get some of 
the old faces back into the discussions. 
 
>It is time for homebrewers to cut the cord from the AHA. 
 
I have only been an AHA member for 2 years. I have been brewing for 10 times 
that and like most long time  homebrewers could live without the BS. 
 
>It is time for an alternative that does not just SAY they listen to the 
"members". 
 
All in all I believe the AHA to be a good thing. Without it many potential 
brewers would possibly never brew. I also feel that there is a major 
comercial money making agenda at the AHA that is giving the place a bad name 
and reputation. 
 
- -Scott "They'll tap my phones for sure now" Abene 
 
 
################################################################ 
#                     ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT                   # 
#                Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>                 # 
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) # 
#                           OR                                 # 
#  http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ (Brew-Rat-Chat) # 
#              "Get off your dead ass and brew"                # 
#     "If beer is liquid bread, maybe bread is solid beer"     # 
################################################################ 
 

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From: Rick Olivo <ashpress at win.bright.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:14:18 -0500
Subject: MORE on the glass/plastic thing

Speaking only for myself, I find this whole thread interesting. I enjoy 
a vigorous debate and don't mind being called wrong as long as I'm not 
patronized or personally attacked. We must strive to retain a sense of 
civility or we learn nothing. To Al Korazonas, I thank you for the 
technical information on the relative permibility of various plastics. I 
agree with another writer who raises the question about how one 
translates this into a real-life effect. A few molecules of O2 working 
their way into the brew aren't going to make a whole lot of difference. 
Our palates are NOT gas chromatographs. I am a bit taken aback that your 
main concern is leaks at the seal. If This is what we're worried about, 
let's attack the problem head on. Come up with designs to eliminate the 
problem if there is one. (Neoprene "O" rings that can be removed and 
sanitized?)Then we can stop the the technical mantras we are passing 
back and forth. I gather from your comments that you are NOT concerned 
about the O2 thing at least as it relates to diffusion through the 
plastic, my main question. Scratches are a different question. Not being 
troubled by the alleged problems with this (famous last words) I will go 
blythely forth as before until such a problem comes up. I have more than 
enough brewing worries to keep me occupied, thank you. Then Again, I've 
always been very loving to the inside of my fermenters etc. By the way, 
has anyone ever tried the expedient of using a bunch of copper-coated 
bb's and slosh them around in a TSP solution inside plastic to clean off 
crud. I've used this method with plastic photographic gear very 
successfully and haven't seemed to caused any problems. Round bb's can't 
gouge. But they do seem to clean gunk off jugs and stuff very nicely. 
After you're done, you just rinse them off and dry them for next time. 
To the gentleman who remided me that flouric acid attacks glass, Touche! 
It's been a long time since high school chemistry. The point of course 
is glass shatters with alarming regularity. Plastic is far more 
forgiving. That's importat for a klutz like me. (Athough to be fair, I 
must admit I once poked a hole in a plastic container with an errant 
nail in the basement... But I was able to save the brew. If it had been 
glass, it would have either remained unbroken (no harm, no foul) or it 
would have shattered.) To Joe Rolfe, re plastic in Breweries. I think 
the realities of construction have something to do with the fact you 
won't see plasic fermentation, lagering etc. equipment in a big brewery. 
However if you will flip through the pages of BREWPUB magazine, you will 
see a number of companies advertising poly fermentation vessels and so 
on. It's more a question of the size of available injection molding 
equipment than anything else. While there is plenty of such equipment to 
make three to five barrel batches, I suspect there are few if any 
injection moldings who could handle a 5,000 barrel lagering tank. 
Besides, Copper and Stainless steel have so much more panache. Plastic 
is so... well, dull! 

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From: Michael Gerholdt <gerholdt at ait.fredonia.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 17:17:04 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Sorghum

- -- [ From: Michael Gerholdt * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- 
 
For those of you interested in the sorghum thread. 
 
BTW, are there any such, or am I writing to myself? 
 
 
- ------- FORWARD, Original message follows ------- 
 
> Date: Tuesday, 22-Oct-96 01:36 PM 
 
> Subject: Sorghum 
> 
> Michael - I've considered brewing a sorghum based beer, but haven't tried 
yet. 
> 
> However, I did stumble into the International Brewery in Nairobi Kenya a 
few 
> months ago and had a brief chat with the brewmaster.  If I had had more 
time, I 
> could have toured their plant too.  Sorghum beer is  popular in Kenya, but 
it 
> is sort of a low grade rot-gut product. 
> 
> Bart 
 
- ------- FORWARD, End of original message ------- 
 
 
- -- 
 

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From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:59:07 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: 15 gall keg hole cutting

Does anyone out there have any ideas on cutting a 10" diameter hole in 
the top of a 15.5 gallon stainless steel keg ? I have tried drilling, 
grinding , sawing and swearing at it - nothing works ! Any suggestions ? 
 
Ian Smith 

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From: paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 17:26:44 edt
Subject: Don't boil in a scorched pot!!

HBDers, 
Just a word of warning from my own recent experience. I scorched the bottom of 
mash tun while decocting a weizen.  After transferring the grain into my GOTT 
for the sparge, I saw the scorch but could not remove it no matter how hard I 
scrubbed with a Scotchbrite pad.  I even threw the keg on the king cooker with 
some water in it in the hope of boiling the shit off.  No luck.  So I had no 
choice but to sparge into the scorched keg and then proceed with boil.  Long 
story short, it's the first beer I had to dump....10 gallons no less! 
Actually I haven't dumped it all yet, but I don't hold any hope that it's gonne
get better. 
 
 Moral of the story: Don't scorch the bottom especially when using the jet 
cookers and if you do scorch, have another keg ready to boil in. 
 
The good news in all this is I found an electric drill attachment wheel that's 
a 3M Scotchbrite-like real stiff material that takes the scorch right off. And 
no the oven cleaners didn't work. 
 
Mike in Cherry Hill NJ 
 

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From: Kelly Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.intel.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:34:16 -0700
Subject: GABF policies

Page down if you've already heard enough about the GABFest... 
 
I had been waiting to post this until I got some response on the subject from 
Marcia Schirmer of
the AOB, but my email to her has gone unanswered for three weeks, so here goes:
 
I'm sure some of you will remember the discussion here a few months ago 
regarding the new policy
excluding backpacks from the GABF. The explanation, given at the time, was that
this was
required to prevent 'smuggling' of alcohol off the premises. Although we 
normally use backpacks
to bring in a bag of pretzels or two, and bring out souvenirs, we reluctantly 
left our backpacks
at home when we attended this year. 
 
Well, when we got to the line in front of the doors, there was a security goon 
shouting out a few
new policies which had not been mentioned before our arrival: NO BAGS of ANY 
type, and NO FOOD
OR BEVERAGES were to be brought into the festival hall. Now, the NO BAGS rule 
is a little
different than 'no backpacks', and could have been applied to our wives' purses
and handbags.
Fortunately this rule was not enforced when we got to the actual entrance, or I
fear there could
have been a rather heated discussion. Ditto the 'no food/beverages' rule, as we
had brought a
bag of pretzels and some mineral water. 
 
While there is food available for sale at the festival, it is usually 
expensive, incompatible
with beer tasting, and requires one to wait in long lines, away from the 
action. Munchy food
such as bread or pretzels is occasionally available at the tasting tables; 
however it is, like
all other provisions at the GABF, woefully inadequate. In an effort to sample a
wide variety of
beers without losing either our sobriety or our palates, we have always brought
some 'munchy'
food and some water, so that we can nibble and sip between tastes of beer. We 
consider this to
be responsible drinking, or, as the AOB puts it, "Savor the Flavor - 
Responsibly!"
 
Why on earth would the AOB and GABF organizers try to prevent us from doing so?
 
I also observed, that despite the AOB's stated desire to prevent 'smuggling' of
alcohol off
premises, that no one at the doors was checking to see what people were taking 
out. As usual,
various vendors within the hall had distributed promo sacks for festival goers 
to use to pick up
souvenirs, literature, etc. No effort was made to check these bags at the door.
 
I'm beginning to wonder if the whole 'no backpacks, no bags, no food, no 
beverages' rule is
simply an attempt on the part of the AOB to squeeze a few more dollars out of 
the festival goer.
As incredibly cheap, mean-spirited, and irresponsible as this sounds, I 
certainly wouldn't say it
was beyond belief for the AOB. 
 
Adding to these new rules (some of which were pre-announced, and some of which 
caught us by
surprise at the door) the new $15 charge for the previously free 'members-only'
tasting, the
GABFest was a much less friendly place to be this year. For several years now, 
I have made the
annual pilgrimage to Denver to take part in what used to be one of the best 
festivals in the
world. With the AOB slowly and surely making the GABF less fun and less 
friendly, I have to
wonder, each year, if this one will be my last. For those planning on attending
next year, be
forewarned. And remember, you won't know what the rules are until you reach the
door.
 
Kelly 
Hillsboro, OR 

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From: Cuchulain Libby <hogan at connecti.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:51:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Thoughts from a newbie

Hello, 
I thought I'd just waste some bandwidth. If you are one of the Zenmasters, I 
humbly bow before you and praise you for your wisdom and guidance. I hope to 
someday acquire your knowledge and experience (using the HBD, primarily).If 
you're new to brewing, here's my $.02: 
1. Go to full wort boil asap. 
2. I brewed 2 batches with dry yeast and 2 batches with Wyeast. Amazing 
difference, go to liquid asap. 
 I'm sure there's an exponential difference between extract and grain, but 
I'm trying to make the best beer with the least effort and extract fits that 
bill. I'm just about ready to make the jump to all grain. 
 BTW, just to finish off the glass vs. plastic BS, I use plastic for a 
primary and glass for the secondary so tthhhhpppp. The cool thing about 
liquid yeast is that it forces you to brew more ( harvest the little 
bastards and pitch again into a new batch quick before they die).  If you've 
never brewed before and are thinking about it, trust me, you'll be 
absolutely amazed at the results of your efforts. 
And finally to those people who bitch/complain about the size or content of 
the HBD: FOAD! 
 
Thank you, 
Cuchulain 
Frogs Balls Brewery 
San Antonio,TX 
 

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From: Brett Anthony Shorten <bas08 at uow.edu.au>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 09:06:37 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Schofferhofer Hefeweizen

It is just about impossible to get imported German Weizens here in Australia 
to my knowledge, so imagine my surprise the other day when I found a product 
called "Schofferhofer Hefeweizen" at a very modest local bottleshop. (they 
also had a filtered Kristal version). Anyway, I would be very interested in 
any information that anyone might have about this beer, as I cant find any 
reference to it in any of my books. From the label, it seems to be brewed by 
the "Schwanen Brauerei" in a town called Schwetzingen, which my atlas says 
is near Heidelberg (the University town in Germany, not the suburb of 
Melbourne I hope!). 
  I guess the brewer in me would particularly like to know whether the 
conditioning yeast in the bottle is the original Weizen strain, or the more 
usual lager yeast used at this stage. Anyone able to help me out regarding 
this beer? 
TIA 
 
Brett Shorten 
University of Wollongong 
Australia 

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From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 21:30:30 +1000
Subject: shutup blabbermouth!

>At least I don't store my malt under nitrogen! 
 
Shhh! Quiet Jethro! I thought that was a secret! 
 
- -- 
Andrew Walsh   CHAD Research Laboratories 
Phone (61 2) 212 6333  5/57 Foveaux Street 
Fax   (61 2) 212 1336  Surry Hills. NSW. 2010 
email awalsh at crl.com.au  Australia. 
 

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From: Charles Capwell <chas at A119002.sat1.as.crl.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 18:53:16 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: AHA/Low grav/plastic/A-B

> >From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU> 
> Subject: AHA Bashing 
> 
> I think based on what is happening at the AHA now that that HBD be moved from
> the AOB server.  If the AHA has the attitude of getting rid of who ever does 
> not serve their political agenda then I think there is no reason to use their
> server. It is time for homebrewers to cut the cord from the AHA. It is time  
> for an alternative that does not just SAY they listen to the "members". With 
> this in mind an alternaitve server should be found for the HBD. 
> 
 
Ok, I'll bite, what is going on at the AHA? Call me ignorant, but I don't 
have a damn clue what you're talking about. Maybe you could clarify your 
statements a little by citing what the AHA has done? 
 
> >From: David Conger <dconger at hal.hscribe.com> 
> Subject: RE: Low Gravities 
> 
[SNIP!] 
> I just recently read an article on the Brew Your Own web-page 
> (http://byo.com) which claimed that a partial boil will result in lower than 
> expected gravity. The reason, the article claimed, is that the dense wort 
> sinks beneath the added water. The article claimed that a thorough mixing 
> would occur during fermentation, but that a precise OG reading would be 
> impossible. :( 
> 
 
While I know all kinds of really nifty-cool science-chemistry stuff goes 
on inside the beer while fermenting, this leaves me looking puzzled. If I 
grab my carboy and do the DO shuffle for fifteen minutes, yer telling me its 
still not gonna be thoroughly mixed? Call me silly, but I think the mixing 
thing has to do with the solubility of wort in water. As far as I knew 
wort was pretty solulable(or however you damn well spell it). 
 
> Perhaps one could take the gravity of the boiled wort then do some math to 
> get the OG of the full five gallons. 
> 
 
I'd say try using the same math chemists use to figger out molarity of 
liquid mixtures, but replace molarity with SG. But I'm not a chemist so 
I don't know if this would work out right(Ok you chemically inclined persons 
out there, correct away). 
 
> >From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net> 
> Subject: RE: the plastic debate..... 
> 
>  i will say one thing then you all decide on how good plastic is/isnot.. 
> 
> if plastic were good for brewing, then why is it in a commercial brewery 
> you never see them as fermenters and lager tanks????? 
> 
> now you tell me how good plastic is? 
> 
 
Um, I think probably the main reason they don't use it is that it 
doesn't stand up to caustics too well. Not to mention I'm fairly certain 
that it works out to be more expensive to try and injection mold a plastic 
container large enough to do the job than to have it built from SS. 
 
> >From: "Chris Nardo" <CNAR at imnr.com> 
> Subject: A-B Thread 
> 
[SNIP!] 
> We expect as much from A-B, but in light of their recent posturing 
> about truth in labelling I did not expect to see on the Amber Bock  label, 
> "Crafted by the Master Brewers at the Anheuser-Busch Company, St. 
> Louis, MO".   No litany of breweries dotted around the backside of the 
> label.  Isn't this what A-B was on about BBC just a week ago on 
> Dateline?  I seriously doubt that this beer was brewed and bottled in 
> St Louis and trucked to San Diego for my consumption.  More likely it 
> was brewed in A-B's So. Cal. plant in Van Nuys, CA or at the very 
> least the No. Cal. Fairfield plant.  You see A-B is not concerned 
> with freshness or truth (whatever that is) or even beer.  Its about 
> money. 
> 
 
I thought that this was a given? If the management at A-B would pry their 
freekin eyes off the bottom line long enough, they might actually realize 
that they could make decent beer at a decent price, and it might actually 
sell. Should they stop trying to bash the public with negative ads and 
pseudo-craft beers, and focus on actually making good beer they could be 
in a position to virtually clean up in the craft market. In a way it is 
good that A-B continues to make swill, otherwise the micros could be 
in a lot of trouble from a company that already has the largest market 
share, an immense distribution network, and a staggering advertising 
budget. Think about it. 
 
- -Chas (chas at crl.com) 
Crazy Cockatiel Brewery 
 
When I heated my home with oil, I used an average of 800 gallons a 
year.  I have found that I can keep comfortably warm for an entire 
winter with slightly over half that quantity of beer. 
                -- Dave Barry, "Postpetroleum Guzzler" 

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From: The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 17:21:20 -0700
Subject: RE:RE: the plastic debate.....

In digest 2241, Joe said: 
 
>i will say one thing then you all decide on how good plastic >is/isnot.. 
 
>if plastic were good for brewing, then why is it in a commercial >brewery 
>you never see them as fermenters and lager tanks????? 
 
>now you tell me how good plastic is? 
 
Oh yeah...I forgot...commercial brewers use glass. 
 
Wayne Holder 
Long Beach CA 
Land of Plastic 

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From: SCHNUPP_JOHN/FOX1_00 at amat.com
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 18:21:00 -0700
Subject: carbonator caps

Greetings fellow homebrewers 
 
   I've been enjoying this digets for a few weeks now.  I must say that there 
is quite a bit of information out there in the collective. I have been reading 
the little thread about the carbonator caps and wanted to toss in my $0.02. 
 
   A while back I was in the position of wanting to take some of my brews to 
the local race track but they didn't allow glass and you could only take a six 
pack (this ruled out taking my 3 gal corny keg).  I tried one to just fill the 
bottles from my tap but they were terriably flat by the time I got to the 
track.
A friend of mine told me about someone he knew that used valve stems.  I 
remembered from my days on a race team pit crew that we used metal stems 
instead
of rubber.  I purchased a few for $2.50 and an air chuck so that I could get 
the CO2 in the bottles (chuch cost $5.00).  I made some caps.  They worked so 
well that I went out and bought enough to make a dozen.  I thought this was a 
great money saving idea so I wrote an article.  It was published in Brewing 
Techniques in the May/June 1996 issue.  In that article I neglected to mention 
my friends name (he dissed me pretty hard).  So I also wanted to take a line 
and mention that this whole idea of mine would not have been possible without 
the origional input from Stan Beauregard at The Brewlab is St. Albans, VT. 
You can use any size soda bottle from the 16oz up to the 2 and 3 liter. 
 
John Schnupp, N3CNL 
schnupp_john at amat.com 
 

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From: Michael Brytowski <mjbrytt at minn.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 20:31:35 -0500
Subject: Brewpot/Fermenter Size

We would like to step up the size of our brewing operations.  We 
currently brew extract in 5 gal batches.  Recently my brew buddy and I 
have been making double batches.  We use two 4 gal pots on the stove 
to 2 6 gal plastic fermenters to 2 5 gal carboys (secondary, 
lagering).  We would like to make single 10 gal batches with just 
single fermenters and secondaries. (fully rehydrate extract)  We will 
be moving up to a larger burner. (35k btu) 
 
My questions are:  How big of brewpot do you need for 10 gal to boil? 
Is there a rule of thumb for how much headroom you should have to help 
prevent boilover.  Also, What size of fermenter do you use?  Again, 
how much headroom do you need to allow for fermentation?  Are there 
10/15 gal carboys, glass jugs out there?  What about Plastic sizes? 
What are people doing now?  Splitting the 10 gal wort into multiple 
fermenters/carboys? 
 
And I quick question about bottling.  Has anybody bottled 10 gal at 
one time?  Did you feel you got a good mix with the priming suger? 
How did you beer carbonate? 
 
Thanks 
 
MIke 
 
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 
Michael J Brytowski, Senior Systems Coordinator - 
                Mid-Continent Area Power Pool  (MAPP) 
 
mj.brytowski at mapp.org, mjbrytt at minn.net 
 
"..place some cute quote here.." 

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