---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  O2 rigs (Jason Henning)
  Re: Toronto (John Rezabek)
  BreWater 3.0 Now Available (KennyEddy)
  re: Life of a Rubber Gasket? (Dick Dunn)
  zinc (Andy Walsh)
  Recipe Wanted ("Pitchford, Andrew")
  Hop drying.. my attic (Mark Witherspoon)
  Re: First time kegging help needed (BRYAN THOMPSON)
  Canned Wort (BRYAN THOMPSON)
  More on Chile Beer (Robin S. Broyles)
  The Wheat Beer Question is Still Open (Volker R. Quante)
  Gott cooler sources ("Odom, Russ")
  Kegging (mda)
  Stability of Iodophor Solution (Mark_Snyder)
  Low Mash Efficiency (Jack Schmidling)
  homegrown hops, eisbock ("Ted Hull")
  Efficiency, ("David R. Burley")
  questionable cf chiller improvements (instrumentation_hrc_at_hrc-mail)
  Yakima hops (Samuel Mize)
  re-low mash efficiency (Mike Allred)
  Correcting erroneous data (Samuel Mize)
  Sour Malt (Dwayne Robert McKeel)
  Re: rectangular cooler mash tun (Llb0909)
  Re: First time kegging help needed (Sean Mick)
  Re: Ultra/Yakima hops (Sean Mick)
  Homegrown hops - again ("Don Van Valkenburg")
  OOPS on George Fix (Steve Potter)
  Using homegrown hops discussed in #2468 (David C. Harsh)
  3 gallon corny's (Tim.Watkins)
  adding sugar to kegs (Thomas Kramer)
  Homebrewer of the Year Correction ("Brian M. Rezac")
  Legal? (David Johnson)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:30:28 -0700
From: Jason Henning <huskers at cco.net>
Subject: O2 rigs

Hello-

I'm thinking of adding o2 to my brewery. Is there really any other use
other than to give the wort and starters a shot? I'm deciding if I
should go with the small bottles or if I should get a regulator and get
a small high pressure refillible bottle. Is $20 about right for a ss
stone?

Cheers,
Jason Henning <huskers cco net>
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
Olympia, Washington - "It's the water"

 . this is your brain
O this is your brain on homebrew


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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:45:31 -0400
From: John Rezabek <rezabeks at alpha.wcoil.com>
Subject: Re: Toronto

I'm not local but if I were going to Toronto I would be sure to get to
C'est What? at Front & Church in the Theater district. I haven't been
there in a while, but I'd bet that the menu is still interesting &
diverse and that they still have a few cask ales on tap. Do you like
Single Malts? They have a bunch of those also. Jazz sometimes. I also
very much enjoy the Granite at Bloom(?) & Edington.
John Varady writes:
> 
> Will be driving from Philly to Toronto and would like to know what the
> locals do for fun, good food, and great beer. I found 8 brewpubs on the Net
> so far but would like some personal opinions.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 01:12:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: BreWater 3.0 Now Available

The newest version of BreWater, version 3.0, is now (finally!) available from
my web page.  BreWater is a freeware utility that allows you to calculate and
adjust the chemistry of your brewing water by adding commonly available
brewing salts & acids.

New in version 3.0:

* Formulation Wizard, which will find the "best fit" formulation for you (you
lazy bum).
* pH Adjustment Utility to calculate acid additions for sparge water.
* Profile Browser to allow previewing profile data before loading.
* Pre-Boil estimator shows effect of pre-boiling & decanting your water.
* Expanded help file
* Estimators for hardness, carbonate, and alkalinity, in case you want a
figure
    for those paramters when they're not given in a profile or analysis.

Visit my web page at http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy (hey, there's a new
picture of me there too!!), or you can direct-ftp the files as follows:

1)  If you are already using BreWater 2.0 or earlier, download

ftp://members.aol.com/kennyeddy/water/bw30.zip

which contains just the exe and hlp files, plus the new Belgian profiles Dave
Darper supplied from Jacques Bertens.  Unzip and overwrite your old files;
all your old profile, worksheet, and preference files will still work with
3.0.

2)  If you don't have BreWater, get

ftp://members.aol.com/kennyeddy/water/brewater.zip

This contains the exe, hlp, and ALL the profile data files, plus a setup
utility.  Unzip and read the readme.txt file for installation instructions.
 You'll also need VBRUN300.DLL, which may already be in your WINDOWS\SYSTEM
directory.  If it's not, you can download a zipped copy of it from

ftp://members.aol.com/kennyeddy/files/vbrun.zip

Unzip vbrun.zip into your WINDOWS\SYSTEM directory before attempting to run
BreWater.

=====

Hope you enjoy BreWater 3.0.  Please let me know if you encounter any
problems installing or running it (but PLEASE check the readme.txt and help
files before you panic!!)

NOTE TO WEBMASTERS WHOSE SITES POINT TO BREWATER:  The download URL has not
changed, but you should update your description to reflect the new revision
level (3.0).

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy

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Date: 23 Jul 97 01:02:40 MDT (Wed)
From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: re: Life of a Rubber Gasket?

Gordon & Cindy Camp <revcamp at epix.net> wrote:
> After the recent birth of my first child (A BOY!) I decided to brew a 
> batch of Mead to lay down for his 21st birthday. A tradition similar to 
> the English idea of buying a vintage case of Port to lay down. No 
> problem, right, wrong? I got fancy and bottled it in 22oz ceramic swing 
> tops. Then I realize that the rubber gaskets over time and eposure to 
> air will dry out and wither...

(Dave Burley had also commented on this part...he'd lost the reference so
I dug it up.)  Yes, the gaskets will dry out eventually.  It's not quick...
I've got some 14-year-old mead in swing-tops, and it has survived.  The
gaskets die when you open the bottles--you have to scrape rubber very
carefully off the lip, but they've held.  However, these bottles are not a
good idea for long-term storage (hey, what did I know? it was a long time
ago when I did that!) and you're talking about 50% longer than my luck has
held.  If you had the neoprene replacement gaskets you might have a better
chance, but I'd still re-bottle.

>...Is there any help? I figure that layed on 
> there sides the inner portions will stay moist...

I'd say this is a bad idea, for two reasons:  Bringing the mead into
contact with the gasket will tend to pull the flavor of the gasket into the
mead, and the acid+alcohol in the mead will accelerate the deterioration of
the gasket from the inside.  Why not rebottle now, instead of worrying for
the next 21 years?  If you're going to rebottle, it's best to do it as soon
as possible...the older the mead gets, the harder it will be hit by the
shock of rebottling.

Dave suggested rebottling in corked wine bottles.  That's OK, assuming you
are comfortable with corking or can get somebody who is to help you.  It's
not hard but there are a few things that can trip you up, and since you're
making this for posterity you don't get any second-chances.  Corked
bottles are more elegant, but if it were me I'd just use good crown caps
(and store the bottles upright).  Crown caps are cheap (which doesn't
matter), reliable (which does matter) and are proof against fermentation
in the bottle that might give some carbonation over the years and push
corks out.

If you're careful, you can get all your new bottles ready, then open the
old ones and simply pour gently into the new bottles and close them (cork
or cap) immediately.  Leave the bare minimum of headspace and you shouldn't
need to sulfite or worry about excess oxidation.  If you cork, the bottles
go on their sides to keep the corks moist; if you cap, the bottles go
upright to keep the liquid off the seals.  Store in a dark place, cool and
with even temperature.

> ...Also, I thought that I 
> could seal the outside of the gasket with wax...

That's not a bad idea, if you can get a sealing wax that will hold OK for
the long-term and won't fight with whatever the gasket is made of (which is
probably not really rubber any more...don't know).  I'm assuming the mead
is still, since if the gasket fails, sealing wax won't hold carbonation.
Sealing would keep the atmosphere off the outside of the gasket, which
will do a lot to prevent ozone attack.  Still, there are several "if"s in
this approach, and again, you don't get a chance to debug the process.
- ---
Dick Dunn       rcd, domain talisman.com       Boulder County, Colorado  USA
   ...Boulder was.

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 18:38:17 -0700
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Subject: zinc

David Whitwell asks:

>I also noticed that zinc was not detected at a detection limit of 0.050.  I
>seem to recall that trace amounts of zinc are necessary for yeast health. 
>Do I need to worry?

I've been wondering about Zinc recently. An opportune question.
At least 0.1 - 0.15mg/l Zn++ is required in the fermenter for yeast
health, and is very stimulatory for yeast growth (and autolysis at the
end of fermentation). It is toxic at high concentrations, as it is
inhibitory to certain enzymes.
A lack of zinc can cause fermentation problems. Zinc also aids foam
stability.
Apparently galvanised water pipes and the use of copper vessels prevents
zinc deficiency (copper always contains zinc impurities). 
Presumably David's water supply does not use galvanised pipes from his
water analysis (<0.05 mg/l (??) present).

So how much zinc is needed and how is it added?
About 1/2 of the zinc from the water is bound in the trub, and
unavailable to yeast. For 20l (5 gal), about 0.1mg/l x 2 (lost to trub)
x 20 = 4mg is required, if it is added to the boil, to give 0.1mg/l.
Zinc chloride is used commercially as a method of addition. This might
be difficult to get hold of for many, and dosage difficult to measure.
Zinc chloride is about 50% by weight of zinc, so about 8mg ZnCl2 would
be needed in the boil per 5 gal. A small amount!

Another idea is to add multivitamin tablets! The ones I have contain
1.5mg Zn per tablet. Therefore about 2-3 tablets (added to boil, or 1 if
added to fermenter directly - I would guess they are pretty sanitary)
would be needed. The other things in a multivitamin tablet are pretty
harmless and may even be beneficial.
Some yeast nutrients also contain zinc, and can be bought in homebrew
shops.

Then again, you probably need not worry, but this may be worth
considering if you run into fermentation problems.

Andy.

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:37:56 +0200
From: "Pitchford, Andrew" <Andrew.Pitchford at hulamin.co.za>
Subject: Recipe Wanted

Greetings All,
I wonder if anyone can provide me with a recipe for Kilkenny Irish Ale
brewed (I think) by Guiness in Ireland. Here in South Africa this beer
(in cans with a widget and in draft) is a favourite with many of my
friends and I would like to try and brew it myself. I have seen it
described as a "hybrid Irish Ale which is a cross between stout, lager
and bitter". Can anyone help?
Thanks in advance,
Andrew Pitchford
(thirsty in the hot African sun)

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 07:39:45 -0400
From: bveq97 at nestle.he.boeing.com (Mark Witherspoon)
Subject: Hop drying.. my attic

The answer to several comments about drying my hops..  Well
my attic during the summer and early fall can get over 150 degrees
F.  The humidity is around 10% in that heat.  How do I know..
I have used a thermometer and a humidity measurer ( I have
forgotten what it is called).  

So my hops dry and loose about 60% of it's weight in about 2 hrs.

My hops are now coning quite well.  I checked them on Sunday late.
Almost ready...

Mark Witherspoon

PS.  I don't live in Seattle, but here in Philadelphia...

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:43:46 -0400
From: BRYAN THOMPSON <BTHOMPS at co.guilford.nc.us>
Subject: Re: First time kegging help needed

On 22 Juy: Paul R Buettner wrote
> Subject: First time kegging help needed
>I just bought a keg system from my local brew shop and need some
>advice.
>do I add sugar or not?  I have had several different people tell me to add
>sugar (1/3 cup), then again I have had several poeple tell me to just
>apply
>30lbs pressure and shake the keg untill I am dizzy, then chill to 45 deg.
>Anyone out there willing to help out?

You can finish the beer in your keg using any techniques that work
in a bottle (i.e. , kegging before fermentation complete, priming or
krausening), but you have the additional option of force carbonation. If
you prime or krausen, slightly less fermentable  material is necessary due
to the bulk and (for lack of a more scientific explanation) proportionately
less head space than the combined space in two and a half cases of
bottles. After priming, the keg should be stored at whatever temperatures
are required for finishing that style of beer, just as you would with
bottles.

Force carbonation is preferred by some who object to the residual taste
of priming sugar, and don't have any leftover wort for priming. Chill the
beer in the keg as cold as you can get it. The solubility of CO2 is much
higher in cold beer. Once cold, hook up the CO2 and adjust pressure
to about 30 PSI. Now you have two optoins; either lay the keg on its side
and gently rock back and forth, or leave it overnight (must be kept cold). If
you do the manual method, you'll hear the CO2 bubble into solution, and
the whole job will be finished in about 5 minutes. When you stop the
rocking, the liguid immediately surrounding the inlet becomes saturated
with CO2 and the bubbling will stop, hence the requirement for agitation.
The overnight method relies on slow but reliable diffusion to carbonate
the beer. 

BTW, once carbonated, use the pressure relief valve on the lid to vent
headspace and replace it with incoming CO2. This eliminates oxygen 
introduced when the beer was kegged. 

Bryan Thompson
Greensboro, NC

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:56:04 -0400
From: BRYAN THOMPSON <BTHOMPS at co.guilford.nc.us>
Subject: Canned Wort

In response to David Burley's comments on canned wort:
>Frankly, I don't know why anyone would go to the trouble of canning
>wort,=
>since malt extract is so readily available and reasonably priced. OTOH I
>can understand the desire to be self sufficient and respect that. I also
>look at the many fiddling things I do, with no complaint,  to make sure m=
>y next batch is great and I understand.  Just be safe.

The reason some of us can wort is because (a) we use it as Speise in
weizenbier or to krausen our lagers, or (b) we can't stand to waste
those extra quarts of perfectly good wort pouring out of our kettle after
the carboys are full. 

I have canned wort for years and never had any problems. I place four
quarts in a large stainess pot filled with water up to the jar rings, with
the rings loosened so expanding steam can escape. Then I put the lid
on and boil hard for 30 minutes. As soon as I turn off the heat, I
tighten the rings and remove the jars. Within ten minutes the lids pop
down. 

Does this qualify as sufficient sterilization? or have I been lucky?

Bryan Thompson
Greensboro, NC

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 07:27:32 -0700
From: rsbroyl at sandia.gov (Robin S. Broyles)
Subject: More on Chile Beer

Hi All,

For the most drinkable chile beer it is important to get more chile flavor
than chile heat into the beer.  Here in New Mexico, the aroma of chiles
roasting at farmers markets and roadside stands fills the air in late
summer and in the fall.  This aroma is an important component of a good
green chile beer, much as the aroma of hops is imperative in a good ale.
To achieve a good roast flavor and aroma, put whole (intact, with stems,
and with no holes in the chile) roasted and unpeeled green chiles into the
secondary of a lightly hopped blonde or pale ale (light bittering, no
finishing hops).

The type of chile used, the length of time in the secondary, and the
alcohol percentage of the beer will determine the heat level.  Using Big
Jim chiles will yield a mild beer with good chile flavor, and using Sandia
or other medium-hot types of chile will give you more heat.  Use a
combination of chile types to tailor the flavor to your liking.  Poblano
chiles can be used for flavor without heat and Anaheims are medium.  A half
dozen six inch chiles for five days in the secondary fermenter is about
right.  A common mistake in chile beers is to go with too much heat.  I
have seen a lot of half-finished glasses of chile beer when the heat gets
to be too much for most drinkers.

To roast chiles at home, place fresh chiles on a hot barbeque grill or
under an oven broiler until the skin on the side toward the heat blisters.
Before the blisters turn from brown to black, turn the chiles over and
blister the other side.  The roadside vendors use a mesh tumbler over a
very hot propane flame.  This blistered skin is left on the chiles when put
into the fermenter, and its' effect is akin to the aroma hops in a good
pale ale.

Also, heed the advice of Dave Whitman and Samuel Mize.  Wash your hands and
fingernails after working with hot chiles and don't rub your eyes.

Good Luck,

Robin S. Broyles   Albuquerque, NM    Dukes of Ale Homebrewing Club



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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:13:32 +0200
From: V.R.Quante at t-online.de (Volker R. Quante)
Subject: The Wheat Beer Question is Still Open

Hi, y'all,

I got some private e-mails concerning my answer to David's wheat beer
question.

Summarizing these, I find two bigger parties:

The one likes lemon slices in the Wheat, especially in that kind of
Wheat, we call in Germany Kristall-Weizen (that's Wheat without any
yeast in the bottle, crystal clear). As I said: It gives a fresh and
fruity taste, in particular on hot summer days.

The other party, strict adherents to the German purity law
(Reinheitsgebot) I think, denies the legitimacy to put anything other
into the glass than the beer itself. BTW: What do these guys think of
the custom to mix beer with lemonade???

But both parties see consensus in the fact, that dry rice shouldn't be
put into the Wheat anyway.

But I'll stop here - this is a mailing list on homebrewing, and not a
list on beer philosophy, isn't it?

Volker

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:50:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Odom, Russ" <rodom at affinity.ccare.com>
Subject: Gott cooler sources


I've noticed recent postings about the Gott (Rubbermaid) cooler and where   
to get one.  Wal-Mart sells both the 5 and 10 gal sizes that retail for   
$21.96 and $36.67, respectively.  This is much cheaper than the source   
Todd Eztel mentioned in HBD #2468.  If you don't have a local Wal-Mart,   
you can shop online at: http://wmonline.wal-mart.com.  No affiliation,   
etc with Wal-Mart, just looking for a good price!

Happy brewing.....
Russ



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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:33:24 -0400
From: mda at mail.atl.bellsouth.net
Subject: Kegging

In reply to First Time Kegger, Paul Buettner asking about carbonating a 
keg:

I have been kegging my beer for some time now and can only give you my 
insight, you have to make your own decisions.

The first question you have to answer is if you want to drink the beer 
quickly or not.  If speed is your choice, then the best (or only) thing 
you can do is to force carbonation.

Another question is if it is a bitter beer or if you would like its 
bitterness increased.  CO2 from forced carbonation will increase the 
bitternes slightly (CO2 is bitter).

Lastly, you have to decide wheather you want to have some yeast sediment 
in the bottom of the keg (which means you will waste a little beer 
getting rid of it).

That all said, both options work well.  I have carbonated both ways and 
the real question I ask myself is if I want the beer ready tomorrow or 
next week.  I prefer the head of the naturally carbonated beer as it 
seems to be finer and longer-lasting than the forced carbonated.

If you force carbonate, allow the beer to cool down in the refrigerator 
for some time as cold beer will accept the CO2 better than beer that is 
at room temp.  The best way is to take the cool beer and attach the CO2 
to the liquid out side, as this allows the CO2 to go through the beer.  
Then put 30lbs (or more, depends on how carbonated you want it) of 
pressure on the keg.  Place the keg on its side and keep rolling and 
shaking it until you don't hear anymore CO2 being released.  Take the 
CO2 off the keg and allow the keg to sit for several hours (or overnight 
preferably).  As the beer warms up, the CO2 disolves into the beer.  The 
next morning, release the pressure from the keg, and replace the 
pressure to about 5-7 lbs.  Now place the beer back into the 
refrigerator and allow it the come to drinking temp.  You are now ready 
to have your beer from the keg.

Cheers,
Mark Andrizzi

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:36:16 -0500
From: Mark_Snyder at WMX.COM
Subject: Stability of Iodophor Solution




Mark Snyder
07-23-97 10:36 AM
Beer me Hop, Scotty!

Help!  I've recently gotten on a brewing binge and have three batches
currently in the fermenters.  Two in the secondary and one in the primary.
I'll be bottling these beers over three successive weekends and was
wondering whether I could prepare my iodophor solution for my bottles, etc.
and use it over the two week period without losing sanitization
effectiveness.  I plan to cover the container to prevent
oxidation/evaporation although I don't know if this is even a factor.

It seem such a waste to prepare three iodophor solutions when one will work
(if it will).  And this doesn't sound much different from information I've
gleaned from the Digest related to long term storage of Corny kegs.

Any suggestions or advice?

Oh, and in regard to chile beer and the relative strength of jalepeno
versus habenero peppers:  pepper heat is measured in Scoville Units.
Jalapenos rank between 2,500 and 5,000 S.U. whereas habeneros (and I LOVE
them!) rank between 250,000 and 300,000+ S.U.  Use them SPARINGLY!



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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:14:54 -0700
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Low Mash Efficiency

This was discussed on rcb but I think it is worth repeating here.

I was recently bummed out by a dial thermometer that decided to
jump up about 10 degrees.  That's enough to destroy the enzymes
and I ended up with a kettle of starchy water.

Half that error could put you somewhere in the marginal range and
result in poor efficiency.  So before blaming the mill or malt,
check that thermometer.  I now do it before ever batch.

js
- --  
Visit our WEB pages: 
                        Beer Stuff.........http://ays.net/jsp
                        Astronomy.......http://user.mc.net/arf
             ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday


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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 5:17:20 EDT
From: "Ted Hull" <THull at brwncald.com>
Subject: homegrown hops, eisbock

Just a quick editorial comment: Dick Dunn's rant in #2468 was a 
bit outside the bounds of intellectual discourse. Ad hominem's 
are a bit unnecessary. Remember, it's a hobby! Besides, lots of 
folks had already written to disagree w/ the original assertion 
re: using homegrown hops for brewing.

On an eisbock note: What does Hair of the Dog do about making 
Eve? Do they have to have a distillation license on top of their 
brewing-related permits?

Ted Hull
Atlanta, GA

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:20:29 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Efficiency,

Brewsters:

D. Leone says:
>am a bit bummed out by the
> mash efficiency.  it has hovered around 50%-55% for all of them..... =

> have carefully ground my grains.  the first and third batches were sing=
le
> step infusion and the middle batch a two-step infusion.
> as i was able to> get a strike temperature that held the mash at 155
degrees for 1-1/2 hours.
> it still did not convert according to my iodine test.  to further confi=
rm
> this....> my o.g. was 46. =


For 12 pounds of grain in 5 gallons your OG  at  60F should have been easily=

in the 60's

Typically even the most poorly ground malt ( milling is normally the
problem with efficiency) gives numbers in the 70%s.  Nevertheless, you ma=
y
wish to check this again as the particles of malt should be free of the
husk and about 1/16 in. ( 1 mm)  in size.   Incomplete conversion after 1=

1/2 hours, if the iodine test is properly carried out, tells me that if y=
ou
don't have a milling problem,  you likely have a thermometer problem and
are operating at 10-20 degrees too high, perhaps. Or if you are heating t=
he
malt too high by adding boiling water  and then cooling it to the mash
temperature, this can cause a problem.  I am suspicious that you were abl=
e
to hold mashing temperature at 155F for an hour and a half without doing
anything.  The other possibility is that you are sparging too fast or hav=
e
a lot of channelling.  Take about an hour to sparge and stir the grain be=
d
periodically to prevent channelling if it looks like that is the problem.=
 =

Taste the sparged grain to see if it is sweet.  =

- ---------------------------------------------------

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 11:51:51 -0500
From: instrumentation_hrc_at_hrc-mail at ccmail.howmet.com
Subject: questionable cf chiller improvements


     I've been a/g brewing about 1.5 yrs. Been using a c/f wort chiller 
     with 3/8" *20' copper tubing surrounded by a garden hose.
     My 15 gallon brew kettle sits on a relatively low stand and 
     consequently the later end of the siphoning slows noticeably.
     I am considering increasing the copper tubing size to 1/2 " *20'  to 
     decrease siphon times. Also will bump up water hose size accordingly. 
     Any insights? Will it still chill effectively? 
     Better to find out now and save some bucks if it is a bone headed 
     idea. 
     tnx es 73's
     rick-aa8jz



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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:02:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net>
Subject: Yakima hops

Jeff asks about Yakima hops.  Yakima is a region, I believe it's
in Washington state.  Bridgeport Brewing's home page says:
   The resulting wort is
   bittered with Yakima and Kent Goldings, Northwest Cascade and Chinook
   hops, 
which may be a little confusing.  They're using Yakima Goldings and
Kent Goldings (probably, I suppose, East Kent Goldings).

Sam Mize
- -- 
Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net -- Team Ada

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:04:02 -0600
From: Mike Allred <mballred at xmission.com>
Subject: re-low mash efficiency

Don Leone had a question regarding mash efficiency.  While I don't know if
this is his problem, I was having efficiencies in the 50-55% range and was
real frustrated about it.  I spoke to my 'brew gurus' (Mark and Sherry
Hafterson - HI!), and was told to calibrate my thermometer.  Well, since the
one I had was cheep garbage, I bought a digital thermometer.  Wow! My
efficiencies are now hovering at about 70%.



Also thank you all for your help and emails with the problem I was having
with slow fermentation.  Bad Airation seems to be the culprit at this time.
Brew on.



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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:16:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net>
Subject: Correcting erroneous data

HBD has always been a place where people can express ideas and thoughts,
even stupid ones, and gently get corrected and informed.

I have greatly enjoyed the absence of angry, abusive net rhetoric on
HBD.  I hope we can all respond, even to annoying misinformation,
calmly and rationally.  It's certainly more persuasive than shouting!

If your buns get blistered, I would recommend ice packs, aspirin
and homebrew until the pain subsides.  I know personally how annoying
that can be!  :-)

Best,
Sam Mize
- -- 
Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net -- Team Ada

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 15:14:44 -0700
From: Dwayne Robert McKeel <drmckeel at twave.net>
Subject: Sour Malt

The brewer at a local micro is a graduate of Weihenstephan. He's a
strict traditionalist and will not adjust his pH with salts or acids (he
says it has a negative effect on flavor!). He uses a special malt he has
imported from Germany, called "sour malt" to adjust mash pH. When he
gave a presentation (read:sells promotion) to our homebrewers club, we
asked if it were possible for the club to buy a quantity of this malt
and some of the hard to obtain Hallertau Mittlefruh hop through him. He
declined saying that if someone used these raw materials and made bad
beer it would reflect negatively on his reputation.(Perhaps someone
would make better beer! Sounds like a cop out to me.) Anyway, I would
like to get some of this sour malt for the flavor character it
contributes, not for pH adjustment (not being bound to some silly 400
year old law!) The sour, lactic flavor is quite addictive and I see many
posibilities for this quantitative (as opposed to a sour mash) source of
lactic flavor. Does anyone in the collective know of a supplier who can
get this malt? Our local suppliers have been unresponsive and I have
been unable to find it elsewhere. Respond to me directly or post for
everyone enlightenment! Thanks!

Dwayne McKeel
drmckeel at twave.net
member of the Carolina Brewmaster,host club of the U.S. Open,and a
really great club!!!
survivor of the summer BBQ Blast, what a party!(thanks Bruno)

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 15:24:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Llb0909 at aol.com
Subject: Re: rectangular cooler mash tun

MCer1235 at aol.com asked about using a rectangular cooler as a mash tun....

I built one and am very happy with it, considering how little time and $'s
went into it. I used 1/2" CPVC for all of the piping, mainly because it was
cheap and easy. Also, I couldn't find a good argument for using copper. I
used a bandsaw for all of the cutting, slotting etc. One big plus of CPVC was
the availability of CPVC to brass compression fitting to garden hose to 3/8"
hose barb adapters. I could attach anything I wanted without hurting myself. 

Some lessons I learned:

Heat loss is a big PITA. Design it to operate with the lid closed and add
extra insulation (I throw a towel over it) to the lid.

Glue as much of the outlet piping (outside the cooler) as possible to keep it
from drawing in air through the cracks.

Make certain you get CPVC glue and not PVC glue. There is a difference. Also,
remember to get cleaner.

Don't glue the slotted manifold. Mine comes apart so I can clean it. The
dishwasher does a lovely job.

Any joints you don't glue - keg lube. It helps seal, makes it easier to
assemble and disassemble.

A piece of racking cane plastic will fit in a 3/8" brass compression fitting
with some persuasion. Some ingenuity and the correct fittings will make it a
fine sight glass. If you install before the outlet valve it can be used to
underlet your grain bed.

Valves on the inlet and outlet make sparging a breeze. Those hose pinchie
things are a hassle.

I use a 3/8" hose to get to my brew pot. To keep it from sagging (and so I
don't burn my hands) I run it inside whatever you call those plastic tubes
you attach to the vacuum hose.

AND.... it is so easy, even a girl could build one.

I will admit a SS mash tun would be preferable. Mainly so I could add heat
while mashing without melting the whole apparatus. I have been getting
efficiencies of 75 to 80%. I could probably do better if I cared to watch the
pH or to watch at all. I am a hugely impatient (read lazy) person and can't
bear to babysit the thing. If anyone would like design specifics I would be
happy to put them in some sort of computer type picture.


Laura
Charlotte,  NC

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:44:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick)
Subject: Re: First time kegging help needed

Paul wrote:
>I just bought a keg system from my local brew shop and need some advice.
>do I add sugar or not?  I have had several different people tell me to add
>sugar (1/3 cup), then again I have had several poeple tell me to just apply
>30lbs pressure and shake the keg untill I am dizzy, then chill to 45 deg.
>Anyone out there willing to help out?

Well, either method will work. For me, the convenience of kegging and force
carbonating is WHY I keg. I don't want to wait another week or so for
natural carbonation in the keg. CO2 is CO2, though, and both methods can
produce similar results. I've found it's best to give the beer some time to
absorb the CO2 if you force carbonate. Don't expect to shake it "till
you're dizzy" and serve immediately. You'll get alot of foam and little
carbonation. I use the carbonation chart published in "Brewing Quality
Beers" and "The Homebrewers Companion." You can also find a similar chart
at Dion Hollenbeck's web page. (www.vigra.com/~hollen/brewdocsindex.html)
I leave mine in the fridge to chill for 12 to 24 hours, then serve with
7-10 psi. If the beer is young going into the keg, a few days of maturation
often improves the flavor. And expect some yeast sediment on the first pint
or so, unless you are patient with your secondary and/or use fining agents
or filtering. Have fun, you may never bottle again! Check past issues of
the HBD for more info on kegging, too. It's a wealth of info. I'm only
posting since the HBD is a bit slower over the summer. See ya,

Sean Mick
Mick's Homebrew Supplies
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew



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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:11:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick)
Subject: Re: Ultra/Yakima hops

>From: brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman)
>Subject: yakima hops?
>
>>Bridgeport Brewing's home page lists Yakima as one of the hop varieties
>>used in their IPA.  I can't seem to find any info on this hop.  Any help?
>
Jeff,

I think they are referring to Yakima Kent Goldings. Especially if its an
aroma hop. Not that Yakima Kent are a substitute for EKGs (nothing is), but
it IS from the same rootstock. I could be wrong, but none of my hop
catalogs list a hop just called "Yakima" I don't think they are referring
to Magnum, since this is bred for its alpha (14% typically) more than its
aroma. The Ultra hop is a triploid of the Hallertauer, supposedly similar
in aroma to the mittelfrueh, but with a lower typical alpha acid level.
This info is cited from the Hopunion web page (www.hopunion.com) I haven't
tried Ultra yet, but I can recommend Mt. Hood as a nice substitute for
imported Hallertauer. I hope this helps. You may want to call Fred Czuba at
Steinbart Wholesale for more info. on purchasing these hops for your store.
He's pretty knowledgable about their properties.


Sean Mick
Mick's Homebrew Supplies
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew


Sean Mick
Mick's Homebrew Supplies
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew



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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 20:15:24 UT
From: "Don Van Valkenburg" <DONVANV at msn.com>
Subject: Homegrown hops - again

Ok, the "Don't" in my opening line was a bit extreme. (Don't use homegrown 
hops for brewing)   I will take the flames for that, but I do think adhominem 
attacks are uncalled for in this forum.
>    -- From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn) 
>"Or forget Van Valkenburg since he's a mouth without a brain.  "
If you can't just discuss the issues and not turn it into a personal attack,  
then don't post.

Perhaps I should explain that as a proprietor of a brew supply store, I get 
the question about using homegrown hops all the time.  My goal is to help my 
customers make the best beer possible with the best ingredients available.  
Homegrown hops are fun to experiment with, but very unpredictable.  And I 
might add I do not think they are the best possible ingrediant available, 
given the choice between a comercially grown and the homegrown hop, I would 
have to chose the comercial.  I can not, with any conscience, tell any brewer 
I sell a rhizome to that he is going to get good cones for making good beer.  
There are just too many variables and the chances are that he will get poor 
quality cones.   I say go ahead and experiment and let me know if you get good 
results from your hops. (I have yet to here from anyone who used successfully 
their homegrown)    If I sell a brewer a Hallertauer rhizome (Hallertauer are 
perhaps the biggest selling hop and the most difficult to grow -the most 
disease prone) and tell him he will get good hops and be able to brew good 
beer with those hops, I would be both dishonest and doing a disservice to my 
customer.

As for growing hops in England,  I am well aware of the problems that English 
hop growers have with disease and mildew.   It is not that is impossible to 
grow hops outside the 30 and 50th latitude,  they just do best within this 
range.   Less than ideal conditions; the greater the chance for; Mosaic 
disease,  Downy mildew, Verticillium wilt just to name a few things that hop 
plants get.   

And, Dick;  As for knowing what I am talking about, you might want to check 
out my article in Brewing Techniques  --  cover story for Sept/Oct 95. -- I've 
done my homework.

Don Van Valkenburg
donvanv at msn.com



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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 15:04:52 -0500
From: Steve Potter <spotter at MERITER.COM>
Subject: OOPS on George Fix

David Houseman kindly pointed out that George Fix actually won the
Ninkasi Award, not the Home brewer of the Year.  That went to Charlie
Gottenkjeny of Dallas for his plambic.  The awards ceremony was at the
end of the dinner cruise during which more than the usual amount of
beer was consumed.  I guess this answers the question I had about
whether it was me or the boat that was rocking.  8^)

Cheers!
Steve

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:19:10 -0400
From: David.Harsh at UC.Edu (David C. Harsh)
Subject: Using homegrown hops discussed in #2468

        Better to lurk on the digest and be considered a fool
                than to post and remove all doubt.

Dave

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
&                         Dave Harsh                                 &
&            Bloatarian Brewing League - Cincinnati, OH              &
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
                               O-



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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 17:29:20 EDT
From: Tim.Watkins at analog.com
Subject: 3 gallon corny's

Hey all,

	I'm slowly but surely getting my kegging act together.  I started by 
getting a free (i.e. old) refridgerator.  I then collected a CO2 tank, 
regulator, etc, etc, etc.  I'm currently using a Sankey 1/4 barrel to keg 
with.  It works great, but I can only get one keg in the fridge.  I've been 
contemplating switching over to corny kegs, since I'm told they are easier 
to deal with (but to be honest, I'm not thoroughly convinced).  
	Anyway, the 1/4 barrel (7.75 gallon) keg works well, and allows me to 
keep the top shelf in the fridge for other beers, and brewing supplies, and 
the like.  The five gallon corny keg is about 29 inches high, which would 
force me to remove the top shelf (I really don't want to do this).  I know 
they make three gallon corny's, but I'm not sure of the dimensions.  Can 
anyone out there who uses the three gallon corny's get me the dimensions 
for them?  My local brew shops (there are two I go two, and neither one of 
them really satisfy me) only have the five gallon ones.  
	On another note, if anybody knows where I can get some (I live in 
Lowell, Mass or by mail order), let me know so I can get more that one beer 
on tap at a time!

thanks much,

Tim

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:52:17 -0400
From: Thomas Kramer <tkramer at monad.net>
Subject: adding sugar to kegs

>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:49:56 -0400
>To: homebrew at hdb.org
>From: Thomas Kramer <tkramer at monad.net>
>Subject: adding sugar to kegs
>
>I transferred some beer to a keg about 5 weeks back, I put about 10 psi of
head pressure on it, and then left it in a cool part of the basement. Since
my kegalator is full with other kegs, and I am unable to bring the before
mentioned kegs downs to temperature to force cormonate it, I was wondering
if it would be ok to bleed off the head pressure and add some sugar at this
point, that way I could bring it to a party and chill with ice.
>
>tom 

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:34:16 -0600
From: "Brian M. Rezac" <brian at aob.org>
Subject: Homebrewer of the Year Correction

>>>For those of you wondering why there have not been any posts from Al
K the past few days -- he was busy picking up a medal for his mead at
the convention.  And at long last, George Fix won homebrewer of the
year.  <<<

Fellow HBDers -

You have been misinformed, George Fix did not win Homebrewer of the Year. 
He won the Ninkasi Award which is awarded to the brewer who earns the most
points across all the style categories.  In it's own right, a very
prestigious award.

The 1997 Homebrewer of the Year is Charlie Gottenkieny of Dallas, Texas. 
He earned this award by winning Best of Show in the National Homebrew
Competition with his Belgian-Style Lambic. 

Also,
1997 Meadmaker of the Year is Ron Badley of Reno, Nevada
1997 Cidermaker of the Year is Frank A. Salt of Staten Island, New York
1997 Homebrew Club of the Year is Derby Brew Club, Derby, Kansas

A complete list of all the medalist (including Al K.) is posted on our
website.

Brian Rezac
Administrator
American Homebrewers Association  (303) 447-0816  x 121   (voice)
736 Pearl Street                              (303) 447-2825   (fax)
PO Box 1679                                 brian at aob.org   (e-mail)
Boulder, CO  80306-1679                info at aob.org     (aob info)
U.S.A.                                        http://beertown.org  (web)



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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:54:41 -0700
From: David Johnson <dmjalj at inwave.com>
Subject: Legal?

Fellow brewers,
	I just recieved a request from my wife's sister for some brew to 
use in a raffle at the family reunion. I questioned the legality of this 
and suggested that it would work better as a door prize. Is this a 
reasonable suggestion? If there is a way to make sure that it would be my 
wife's other sister, I might call the BATF myself.
	Dave



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---