---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  25L Stainless Steel Barrels (Rick Olivo)
  AHA cynicism (Jim Liddil)
  Gott coolers/Igloo coolers ("Myles Parker")
  Legal stuff (Louis Bonham)
  Re: Low Mash Efficiency (Bob McCowan)
  Drying your hops. (Luke.L.Morris)
  re: 3 gal cornys (haafbrau1)
  BreWater Setup Problem & Fix-- It's Always Something (KennyEddy)
  Mashcalc Program (Pat Anderson)
  Keg Mobility (Mark Thomson)
  Canned Wort, Malta and Botulism ("Alan McKay")
  The fire of one's ire isn't our desire... (Some Guy)
  David v. Goliath (RANDY ERICKSON)
  Oxygen in Kegs, Sterilization, bitter CO2?, ("David R. Burley")
  RE: O2 rigs/Chiles/CF Chiller (John Wilkinson)
  making Belgian candi sugar (smurman)
  Civility of  Digest postings (Robert Bryson)
  low efficiency - thanks to all (Don Leone)
  homegrown hop report (DAVE SAPSIS)
  Chile beer, habaneros, etc. (Darrell)
  Looking for a little tartness (kit)
  CP Bottle Fillers: A Decision Reached (Rob Kienle)
  # G Corny's/ PBW vs Iodophor/Congrats!/Homegrown Is A Good Thing? ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Acidulated malt (sauermalz) (Sean Mick)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:59:51 -0500
From: Rick Olivo <ashpress at win.bright.net>
Subject: 25L Stainless Steel Barrels

Phail Ale:
Regarding the safety of using 25 liter barrels that once held
polyethylene (polythene) glycol; this may help you make your decision:

Polyethylene glycol 400
(Merck registry)
Background

Polyethylene glycols (PEGs) are used extensively as solvent vehicles in
cosmetics, industrial products and technical industries. The molecular
weights vary from 200 to 7500. At room temperature, the low molecular
weigth (200 - 700) are liquids, whereas the consistency of higher
molecular PEGs (1000 - 7500) varies from soft to hard. PEGs are
hydrophilic and easily bind many products becaused of theric special
helical configuration. PEGs are therfore used as a vehicle for many
drugs. PEGs (especially PEG 400) facilitate the skin penetration of many
substances and are therfore often used in topical preparations. PEGs are
not subject ot bacterial deterioration.
Peroxidases may be formed during storage, especially at higher
temperatures or in daylight, so storage conditions should preferably be
a cool environment protected from direct sunlight. Cross reactions
occurr between the low molecular weight but not the higher molecular
weight PEGs and the higher molecular weight PEGs are consisdered to be
rare sensitizers.

Synonyms:
Polyethylene glycol 400

Uses:
Carbowax
Contraceptives
Topical medications
Shampoos
Detergents
Insect repellents
Cosmetics
Toothpaste
Furacin
Hair dressings
Plastibase
Suppositores

Cross-Reactions: (none)
Unusual Reactions: (none)

(Information from Vanderbilt University page on dermatitis)

As a bit of additional information, this class of chemical is related to
ethylene glycol, the main ingredient of plain old automotive antifreeze.
Here is some info:
Ethylene Glycol

Ethylene glycol is a clear, colorless, odorless, viscous liquid with a
sweet taste, that can produce dramatic toxicity. It is commonly found in
homes and industry. It is found most commonly in antifreeze, automotive
cooling systems, and hydraulic brake fluids. In an industrial setting it
is used as a solvent or as the raw material for a variety of processes.
Many cases of ethylene glycol poisoning results from accidental
ingestion by children who can take in large amounts since the substance
tastes good. Alcoholics may also ingest this substance as an ethanol
substitute. 

Pharmacology: Ethylene glycol is rapidly absorbed once it is ingested
and is then widely distributed into body tissues. Peak blood levels are
generally seen in 1-4 hours. Exposure to the skin and lungs may cause
irritation but does not cause the systemic toxicity in the way that
methanol does. Lethal quantities in adults are considered to be 100 ml,
but in children much less may cause serious cardiac, renal, and CNS
toxicity. 

Ethylene glycol itself is relatively nontoxic. After absorption the
unchanged compound undergoes
glomerular filtration and passive reabsorption. It is then broken down
into metabolites that are highly toxic and cause the associated findings
of ethylene glycol toxicity. Ethylene glycol is converted to
glycoaldehyde by alcohol dehydrogenase. This is the rate limiting step
of a reaction in the liver that continues to breakdown the glycoaldehyde
into glycolate, glyoxylate, and oxylate.
(Emergency Medicine Bullitin Board)

This inforamtion aside, I believe that polyethylene glycol is, like its
cousin, ethelyene glycol. highly water soluable. If this is the case, a
good thorough washing should remove it from the stainless steel drums.
However I would certainly take this up with a petrochemical engineer
experienced with this material before I used such drums in brewing.

Strange Brewer
Vitae Sine Cervesiae Sugat!!!
(Life without beer sucks!!!)

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:08:39 -0700
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu>
Subject: AHA cynicism

Ok so I have a question for all those who went to the AHA conference. 
Particularly for the AHA "Advisors".  Has the AHA presented a plan for
acutal change?  Are they going to address the various concerns raised
here and on rcb?  Or will they continue to only provide lip service? 
And who would have thought another plambic would win hboy?  I guess
everything else was not very good. :-)

Jim
www.u.arizona.edu/~jliddil


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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:03:14 +1000
From: "Myles Parker" <Milo4T at bigpond.com>
Subject: Gott coolers/Igloo coolers 

	<Lurk mode off>

	Fellow brewers,
			Regarding these Gott coolers. I didn't know what you guys were talking
about till I actually saw a small Gott cooler at a store here in Canberra
(Australia) - I then searched the Net & found that Rubbermaid has a
presence in OZ. I rang them, then got onto the distributor but I am having
devils own trouble finding a place here in Canberra (capital of OZ but not
a MAJOR city like Sydney or Melbourne) that will get me in a 7 or 10 Gallon
Gott for a reasonable price. (I had a quote for 10 gallon Gott which would
cost me OZ$130!!!!!! I have since talked to a camping store who stock Igloo
coolers & he quoted me a price of OZ$145 for a 10 Gallon Igloo cooler!!!
	Two things:
	 is there a difference between Gott and Igloo coolers in terms of
effectiveness in mashing (ie holding the temp) as you guys only seem to
talk about Gott coolers;
	and secondly is there anybody over there in the US that might do a fellow
brewer a favour and purchase a 7 or 10 Gallon Gott or Igloo cooler for me
and post it to me in Australia???? I would fund the whole cost (with price
difference for OZ$ to US$). If there was somebody willing to do this,
before going ahead and actually buying the cooler, could somebody give me
price for buying the cooler and the associated postage costs so I can
determine whether this is a viable option!!!!

				Myles Parker,
			Canberra Brewers Club,
			Beautiful foggy & freezing Canberra,
			 	Australia.
		Home Email (at the moment):	Milo4T at bigpond.com
		Work Email:			myles.parker at deetya.gov.au
      

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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 06:27:45 -0500
From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net>
Subject: Legal stuff

A couple of legal questions were raised in HBD 2469:

> On an eisbock note: What does Hair of the Dog do about making
> Eve? Do they have to have a distillation license on top of their
> brewing-related permits?

Under my understanding of the BATF regs, it would requirea distiller's
ticket to make a true eisbock.  Most states
would probably require a state distiller's permit as well.
Unlike the brewers' permits and stuff, getting licensed as
a distiller is a *major* PITA, and I've been advised that
it's neigh-well imposible unless you plan to spend a fortune
on your operation.  As to "Hair fo the Dog," I have no idea
where they are located, but if they are in the US and are
making a true eisbock (as opposed to simply a stronger bock
and using a little poetic license in their marketing), I
would think they'd have a bit of a problem.

> I just recieved a request from my wife's sister for some brew to
> use in a raffle at the family reunion. I questioned the legality of
> this and suggested that it would work better as a door prize. Is this
> a reasonable suggestion? If there is a way to make sure that it would
> be my wife's other sister, I might call the BATF myself.

State law, rather that the BATF, is the real key.  In manystates, like
Texas, homebrew is for "personal use" only.
Selling is always verboten, and even transporting it out
of your house gets dicey (indeed, Texas has a special
exception in the law that to permit for transportation and
consumption of homebrew beer at organized tastings
(i.e., beer club meetings) and competitions that meet
certain guidelines).

Ergo, while YMMV depending on what state you are in, either
option -- raffling or giving it away at a public function --
probably won't pass legal muster.

And finally:

> After the recent birth of my first child (A BOY!) I decided to brew a
> batch of Mead to lay down for his 21st birthday. A tradition similar
> to the English idea of buying a vintage case of Port to lay down.

Congratulations, but a minor nit.  Victorian tradition was tolay down
not a case of port for a lad's 21st BD, but a "pipe"
of port.  I forget the precise number of bottles in a "pipe",
but I believe it was something like 50 cases (600 bottles) or
more.


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:51:32 -0400
From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at bmd.cpii.com>
Subject: Re: Low Mash Efficiency

Jack Schmidling saidL
>
>I was recently bummed out by a dial thermometer that decided to
>jump up about 10 degrees.  That's enough to destroy the enzymes
>and I ended up with a kettle of starchy water.

> So before blaming the mill or malt,
>check that thermometer.

Absolutely - dropping a dial thermometer on the floor can knock it off by
5-10 degrees.  So if you drop the thermometer during the brewing session,
check it again.

Bob

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob McCowan                            
                                     
ATG/Receiver-Protector            voice:  (508)-922-6000 x208
CPI BMD				    fax:  (508)-922-8914
Beverly, MA  01915               e-mail:  bob.mccowan at bmd.cpii.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 20:57:37 +0800
From: Luke.L.Morris at woodside.com.au
Subject: Drying your hops.

Pat wrote in #2468:

>As I was pondering my navel - er - the COSMOS (yeah! That's better!) this
>morning, I read note after note to the 'Gest about drying their hoppage.
>Most cited a temperature. This led me to pick a wad of lint - er - to the
>realization that some may have the concept a little "off": The key to
>drying is air circulation; not necessary temperature.

Pedantic point:

The real key is relative humidity - a low one.  Your temperature can be 
whatever you like, but if your RH (relative humidity) is 100%, you 
won't dry anything.  You can circulate all you like, but you just won't 
dry anything if your RH is 100% !

The reason temperature is often considered is that for a given 
*absolute* humidity, the RH is lower at higher temperatures (ie. hot 
air will accomodate more moisture before becoming saturated - this is 
why you can "see your breath" on a cold morning, but not a hot one).  
Circulation will replace the now-moist air in the region immediately 
around your drying hops with drier air, so will speed up the drying process.

The bad news is that you will need a hygrometer to measure humidity (I 
forget if it measures relative or absolute - if it measures absolute 
you will also need a thermometer and tables to determine RH ).  The 
good news is you don't need to.  Just remember that warmth and 
circulation will both accelerate the process, and find something that 
works for you.  Spreading the hops out thinly also helps (maximise 
surface area), and silica gel granules can be used to dry the air if 
you think that's necessary.

For those who are truly determined (there seems to be alot of these on 
the HBD) : industrial drying processes usually chill incoming air to 
reduce the moisture level (it "drops out" as condensation - you can 
*not* do this with an evaporative air-con !), then heat the air to 
reduce the RH to a low value (heating with an open flame is not 
efficient - products of combustion include water) before circulating 
through the medium to be dried.

Happy brewing, and enjoy your home-grown, home-dried hops !

Luke Morris,
Brewing in Perth, Western Australia.




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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:05:10 -0400
From: haafbrau1 at juno.com
Subject: re: 3 gal cornys

I don't know the dimensions of the 3 gal cornies, but I do own a 5 gal
'squat' keg. It uses the pepsi (ball) fittings, and it is 14.5" high x
12.25" diameter.  I bought it for $50 so that I wouldn't have to remove
my fridge top shelf.  My other kegs don't get used nearly as much now.
Paul Haaf
haafbrau1 at juno.com

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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:36:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: BreWater Setup Problem & Fix-- It's Always Something

Due to a massive brain meltdown on my part, the SETUP.EXE utility in
brewater.zip is not quite right.  It aborts prematurely (tries to copy a file
that is no longer included in the package), but only after setting up the new
directory and after successfully copying brewater.exe, brewater.hlp, and the
required system file.

I'll post a corrected version shortly, but in the meantime, the fix is simple
- -- after running setup, copy all the unzipped files to the new directory, and
manually set up a program group or folder for the BreWater exe and help
icons.  Or, better, don't run setup at all; see the readme.txt file for
manual installation instructions.

If you're totally uncomfortable with manual installation, download the
corrected package this weekend.  I'll have it updated by Friday night.

BW30.ZIP, the update-only file, will work fine.  Simply unzip & copy the
files into your existing brewater directory.

My apologies for this inconvenience.  After all the fits & starts getting the
program itself going, you'd think I would have made sure the stupid setup
utility was right.

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 06:14:14 -0700
From: Pat Anderson <pata at aa.net>
Subject: Mashcalc Program

OK, thanks to everyone who responded to my request for formulas for
calculating mash water additions. Jeff McNally sent me a big file of
clippings of past HBD posts.  I wrote the program.  Jim Layton did a
comparison of the results of the program's output to manual calculations
with the various formulas.  I have sent the program to Mark Stevens,
anticipate it will be available shortly at The Brewery
<http://brewery at realbeer.com> on the Software page. If it does not show up
there, you can email me a request, and I will send it on.  It is freeware,
same as Tinibuw.  Enjoy.
- ---
Pat Anderson <pata at aa.net>


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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:03:08 -0600
From: Mark Thomson <mthomson at mail.xula.edu>
Subject: Keg Mobility

I started kegging because everyone told me to.  I know that it is not
the best reason and I don't do it much (bottles are easier to share with
friends who have not yet learned the importance of being passionate
about fine ales).  Last spring I learned a new and very important use of
kegs and I would like to solict some assistance in improving the idea.  

Here goes.  I live in New Orleans.  February means Mardi Gras parades
and the greatest free party in the world.  One 5 gal keg and a large
soft-side back pack makes the party even better.  Last year Mardi Gras
was early (Feb. 11), it was cooler, and I like my beer warm anyway.  The
problem was that not everyone around me likes it warm.  I would be very
thankful for any suggestions on how to keep the ale cool with the
following limitation.  I have to carry this on my back for 8-10 blocks
and then wear it while standing at a parade for several hours.  It would
also be nice if I could jump up and down and shout "Throw me something,
Mister."

- -- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr. Mark Thomson         I was supposed to have been a Jesuit priest,
Department of Chemistry     or a naval academy grad.
Xavier University        That was the way that my parents perceived it,
New Orleans, Louisiana      Yes, those were the plans that they had.
mthomson at mail.xula.edu                --Jimmy Buffett

     _                    _                     _
     \\_         _        \\_         _         \\_          _
 __   \ \_   __  \\_   __  \ \_   __  \\_    __  \ \_   __   \\_   __
_\ \___\  \__\ \__\ \__\ \__\  \__\ \__\ \___\ \__\  \__\ \___\ \__\ \__
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:35:38 -0500
From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com>
Subject: Canned Wort, Malta and Botulism


Just when we're finally making some progress convincing people that
there is a
danger of botulism when using improperly canned starters, we get some
yahoo
who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about (yet tries to make it
sound like he
does) who comes out and makes comments like the below :

> Brewers
> 
> 1)  Thousands of homebrewers have canned wort for starters for years with
> no known problems from botulism (surely we'd have heard of it if there were
> cases - botulism is rare enough to rate news coverage).
> 
> 2)  Millions of Latin Americans and others drink pasturized wort called
> malta every year without any apparent botulism problems.
> 
> 3)  I draw from this what seems to me to be an obvious conclusion.  Where
> theory and observation conflict, as in this case, the theory must be
> re-examined.  It would seem that theorists are being VERY cautious since
> botulism is so deadly.  I think we are safe using canned wort for starters.

Please, if you haven't a clue what you are talking about, then keep your
unsafe
practices to yourself, and don't encourage others to use them.  If you'd
like to
use your granny's method, please do so at your own risk.  Myself, I'll
go with
the well-documented scientific research I've gleaned from reading the
proper
way to do it in a good book like "Putting Food By".

As someone pointed out recently in this thread, the literature is full
of examples
of little old ladies who've been canning their prunes for 50 years with
no problems
at all until that one fateful batch which kills a member of the family.

As pointed out in "Putting Food By", Botulism incidents in the US
increased in
the early 70's at roughly the same rate as the increase in home-canning.
 (There
was a home-canning craze in the early 70's ).  This was primarily from
people
using (or misusing) grandma's methods.

unhumbly and disgruntledly yours,
 -Alan


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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 12:43:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: The fire of one's ire isn't our desire...

Greetings, Beerlings! Let's douse each other with lager...

Uh...    can't.....    we.....     all.....    just....   gitalong?

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan                pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor                  janitor@hbd.org


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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:59:02 -0700
From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE at mid.org>
Subject: David v. Goliath

Greetings:

Pardon me for posting slightly off topic, but as this micro is a stones
throw from where I sit, it was of interest to me and may be to others as
well.

Randy

**********************************************************************
St. Stan's sues brewery giant Anheuser-Busch 

By Tim Moran
[Modesto] Bee staff writer 

St. Stan's Brewing Co. has filed suit against industry giant
Anheuser-Busch in a class action that likely will have repercussions
throughout the United States.

In the lawsuit, filed Monday in U.S. District Court in Sacramento, the
Modesto micro-brewery contends that Anheuser-Busch violated
anti-trust laws by pressuring independent distributors to stop distributing
beers made by other brewers. 

The lawsuit was filed on behalf of micro-brewers throughout the
western United States who have had their contracts canceled by
distributors over the last 18 months. 

 According to the lawsuit:

Anheuser-Busch used its huge market share to pressure distributors to
drop other brands, and offered financial incentives to distributors who
sell only Anheuser-Busch products. 

Anheuser-Busch's tactics have cut off micro-brewers from access to
grocery shelves, liquor  stores and taverns. In some counties there are
no other distributors, and in others there are only  small distributors who
don't have the same access to retail outlets that Anheuser-Busch does.

 Five Anheuser-Busch distributors in California terminated contracts with
St. Stan's in 1996 as a  result of the giant brewer's actions.

"St. Stan's profits fell by half instantly when this happened," said Roger
Schrimp, an attorney with  Damrell, Nelson, Schrimp, Pallios & Ladine in
Modesto. 

"Our investigation shows that a lot of distributors pulled products off the
shelves immediately. St. Stan's got calls from customers saying they
couldn't find the beer anymore. These are very heavy-handed tactics." 

The Damrell firm, along with Cotchett & Pitre in Burlingame, filed the
lawsuit. 

Royce J. Estes, vice president of corporate law for the Anheuser-Busch
Companies Inc., said the  company had not seen the St. Stan's lawsuit,
so it couldn't comment on specific allegations. 

He added, however, that the wholesaler incentive programs are
"legitimate and legal business  practices." Participation in the programs is
voluntary, Estes said. 

Schrimp said other lawyers soon will be filing similar lawsuits for other
micro-brewers. A class action  lawsuit combines all the plaintiffs in a
single lawsuit. 
The St. Stan's lawsuit seeks triple the amount of damages, along with
punitive damages, court costs  and interest. 

Micro-brewers hold a small but growing part of the national beer market.
They have grown from 1.3 percent of the market in 1994 to 2.5 percent
last year, and are expected to hit 6 percent in the next three years. 

In some areas, micro-brewers have a much larger share, however. In
Oregon, they capture about 8 percent of sales, and in the [San
Francisco] Bay Area, 17 percent of beer sales are craft beers,
according to the  lawsuit. 

The national beer market is dominated by three brewers:
Anheuser-Busch has more than 44 percent of the market, including some
micro-brewed beers of its own, such as Red Hook. Miller has 23 percent
of the national market, and Coors 10 percent. 

Another perspective: St. Stan's sold about 248,000 gallons of beer in
1996; Anheuser-Busch sold  more than 2.75 billion gallons.

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:31:13 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oxygen in Kegs, Sterilization, bitter CO2?,

Brewsters:

A contributor (Sorry, I pushed the 'del' button too soon) says in his
discussion of force carbonation:

>BTW, once carbonated, use the pressure relief valve on the lid to vent
>headspace and replace it with incoming CO2. This eliminates oxygen =

>introduced when the beer was kegged. =


It is good to be sensitive to the impact of oxygen, but the oxygen probab=
ly
already did its dirty work by this time. Oxygen entrainment into kegs whe=
n
the beer is at its most sensitive state is a problem, but can be eliminat=
ed
with minor changes in techniques.

I always fill my dis-infected keg to the top with pasteurized water ( my
hot water boiler is 180F) and then close it up, and blow the water out
through the "out" line with CO2.  This removes all of the air. I then ope=
n
the relief valve, carefully remove the lid and place the siphon tube in t=
he
bottom.  Run the beer into the keg.  This will push out the
heavier-than-air CO2 and any air ( which likely stayed near the top) that=

entered during the opening.  Close the lid, flush with CO2 with the relie=
f
valve open and then close the valve and pressurize the keg to seal the
o-ring even if you are doing a natural carbonation.  I force carbonate
through the 'out' line to bubble the CO2 up through the beer and avoid al=
l
that rockin' and rollin'  although I do give the keg a shake periodically=

until the gas no longer flows in.

For purging the keg, I have tried adding CO2 through the out line of a
closed keg with the vent open and held a piece of wet blue litmus at the
exit port to see when the CO2 started coming out, but I was never satisfi=
ed
that all of the air was gone because of the high potential for mixing. =

This water technique described above gives excellent results and minimize=
s
the use of CO2 for purging.  Plus you know when you have used enough CO2.=


Also, when hooking up a CO2 line to a keg, I take a screwdriver ( or any
hard object) and push in the spring loaded valve in the fitting to remove=

all of the oxygen in the pressurized line before hooking it up.  This is
especially important if the CO2 line is hooked up and unhooked each use a=
nd
the beer is not all consumed at once, but over a few weeks.   =

- ---------------------------------------------------
Bryan Thompson describes his boiling water technique for wort sterilizati=
on
and asks "have I been lucky?"

Experts ( and I am not one) would say "yes".  Because of the pH of the
wort, you should use pressure canning techniques to guarantee no botulism=
=2E
- ---------------------------------------------------
Mark Andrizzi say "CO2 is bitter"

Nope.  CO2 is sour, as it is an acid when dissolved in water or beer. =

Acids are sour and bases are bitter. The source of the CO2 should not mak=
e
any difference in its ability to impart a taste to beer.

The comment that as the beer warms up the CO2 goes into it is misleading
and apparently counter to Mark's comment that CO2 is more soluble in cold=

beer than warm (which is correct)  Leave the force carbonated beer in the=

refrigerator. Only the very minor amount of CO2 in the headspace will be =
at
30 psi and it will come to less than 10 psi overnight.  You may have to
repeat the force carbonation at a lower pressure to get it right.
- ---------------------------------------------------

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 13:12:27 CDT
From: jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: RE: O2 rigs/Chiles/CF Chiller

Jason Henning asked about O2 rigs:

>I'm thinking of adding o2 to my brewery. Is there really any other use
>other than to give the wort and starters a shot? I'm deciding if I
>should go with the small bottles or if I should get a regulator and get
>a small high pressure refillable bottle. Is $20 about right for a ss
>stone?

I don't know of any other brewing use than oxygenating starters and wort.
I first bought the small bottle with stone at my local HB store but didn't
seem to get many starters and worts going before emptying the bottle.
Replacement bottles may be bought from hardware stores for about US$7 or $8
as Bernzomatic O2 bottles.  The valve with the kit screws onto a left hand
thread on the top of the bottle and when I turned off the O2 I inadvertently
loosened the connection allowing O2 to leak out.  There is very little O2
in the little bottles so I tried to give just enough but not too much.
I found this difficult to judge.
Dion Hollenbeck had written before of using O2 from his oxy-acetylene
welding rig so I looked into that.  Buying a small welding O2 bottle and
regulator would cost about $150 in the Dallas area.  That will buy a lot
of Bernzomatic bottles at $7-8 each, about 20.  However, I rationalized
that I could always use an OA rig and found a small portable setup at
Sam's for about $200 (I think).  My wife gave me that for my birthday and
I was on my way.   I had a hose made up at a welding shop with a 1/4 inch
compression fitting on one end (thanks for the tip Dion) and I had a way
to connect O2 through a tube to my aeration stone.  I bought my stone from
Brewer's Resource for about $16 but shipping would be about $5 so the cost
would be about the same as one bought locally unless you had other things
you were going to buy from BR anyway.
I now pour all the O2 I like to my wort and starters as refilling the O2
bottle is only about $8 around here. 

I have a further note of caution to those using chiles.  In addition to the
warnings about washing your hands before rubbing your eyes, do the same
before getting rid of the homebrew you drank while not worrying and brewing.
Forgetting to do that can result in a memorable experience.

rick-aa8jz (???) asked:

>I am considering increasing the copper tubing size to 1/2 " *20'  to 
>decrease siphon times. Also will bump up water hose size accordingly. 
>Any insights? Will it still chill effectively? 

I tried this using 1/2 inch tube and 3/4 inch garden hose and find it does
not chill as well as the 3/8 inch tube version.  I have not done any valid
experiments to quantify the difference but last weekend my big chiller
was bringing the wort to within about 8F of the water temp and I believe my
smaller one used to get more like 3 or 4F above water temp.  The large
one is faster and seems to pass hops rather than clog on them.  I will
continue to use it for these reasons.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com

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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:34:02 -0700
From: smurman at best.com
Subject: making Belgian candi sugar


I was at my local HB shop, and I noticed they had some Belgian candi
sugar on the wall.  They were selling it for about $7/lb.  Another
shop in the area sells it for $1.75/4oz.  Folks, this is highway
robbery.  Sugar will go for about $0.25/lb in quantity at the local
grocery.  I support my local shop, but this is taking it to extremes.
So, I decided to post my method of preparing Belgian candi sugar.  I
initially got some advice from the HBD last year, and have since
refined my method.  It works for me, hopefully it will for you also.

Take 1 lb. of regular table sugar and dissolve it in about a cup of
water.  You're going to boil this for about 10 minutes to caramelize
the sugar.  I use a cheap Teflon-coated saucepan.  I originally tried
pyrex in the micro-wave, but this doesn't work as well.  The sugar
will boil for some time (~7 min.) without any noticeable change, and
then it will darken rapidly.  If you want a light sugar, take it off
the heat as soon as you see signs of color change.  It will continue
to boil for a minute or so after you remove it from the heat, and
hence continue to darken slightly.  I like letting it caramelize to a
dark amber.  You can really get a sense of the flavor contribution by
doing it yourself.

While your boiling, fit a sheet of aluminum foil into a bowl of about
6-8 inch diameter, and make a small depression in the center of the
foil.  What you're going to do is pour the molten sugar into this
"mold", and let it harden.  Be careful not to puncture the foil, and
make sure it is held to the bowl by crimping the edges.  Molten sugar
is very hot and sticky.  Slowly pour the caramelized hot sugar from
the saucepan into the aluminum foil mold, and let cool overnight.  I
usually make this up beforehand when I do my starter.  The Teflon
saucepan can be cleaned by simply boiling some water in it.

At brew time, after you've sparged in a gallon or so of wort, simply
plop the hardened sugar and foil into your brew pot.  As the wort
heats, the sugar will melt, and after all of the sugar has melted the
aluminum foil will simply float to the top where you can skim it out.

Impress you friends and loved ones with your new skill, and wink
knowingly at any Belgian candi makers you run into.

SM


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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 14:04:55 -0500
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)



Subject: Corrections (George Fix)

I want to thank Brian Rezak and Steve Potter for pointing out that it
was not I but Charlie Gottenkjeny who is the real Homebrewer of the Year.
Actually I just found out about the results from the AHA nationals 
myself. BTW Charlie's lambics are true works of art. He won BOS
with a similar formulation at the Dixie Cup last October.

Cheers,

George Fix





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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 14:10:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert Bryson <rbryson at edge.net>
Subject: Civility of  Digest postings

I have been only a lurker, because I am so new to homebrewing that I have
not felt competent to comment on anything in the Digest.  However, I have
been gratified (and amazed) at the quality and civility of the vast majority
of the postings.  I certainly hope that this trend continues, and that the
Digest does not become like so many other on-line groups where only one
posting in twenty has anything useful to say. I have learned a great deal,
and I hope I can continue to learn.


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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 14:30:19 -0500
From: Don Leone <DELETETHISPARTdleone at gw.stlnet.com>
Subject: low efficiency - thanks to all

to all on rcb and the hbd: thanks for the helpful emails on my low
efficiency.  i have receive many responses and will sort through the
answers over the next couple of days.  hopefully i can solve this
problem.  -don leone

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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 12:37:06 -0700
From: DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov (DAVE SAPSIS)
Subject: homegrown hop report

     As a longtime casual hop grower I thought I would respond to Dan's 
     request for information on successful uses of homegrown hops.  
     One season I was lucky enough to have a massive harvest, which allowed 
     me to do lots of experimentation with three varieties: Perle, Cascade, 
     and Hallertauer.  I tried all kinds of things, including empirical 
     tests for effective bittering by brewing and taste trials (yes, Pat, 
     empirical analysis does not require a uv spec).  I found that the 
     perle appeared to yield an effective alpha of about 10%, which was as 
     expected given the variety.  This is based on established utilization 
     procedures and interpreted bitterness, mind you, but worked well 
     enough to give me confidence that i could use the hops as bittering 
     with roughly the same degree of confidence that I approach it when I 
     have a value printed on a bag.
     
     I found that undried hops imparted a distinctly grassy, green, 
     chlorophyll kind of flavor when used for dry hopping.  Fully dried 
     hops lose almost all their myrcene (often upwards of 50% of the total 
     oil content) as can be validated by the strong aroma coming off the 
     fresh hops as they are dried.  Possibly of greater significance is the 
     initiation of oxidation of terpines which produce the intricate minor 
     hop components that add to a variety's signature aroma.  As Ralph 
     Olson stated in a letter to BT, although not particularly well 
     understood, the oxidized fraction is very important, and often is 
     responsible for some highly desirable flavor/aroma characteristics.  
     If one searches the archives, you can find an account of two 
     side-by-side Liberty knock offs I did, which established a strong 
     taste preference for dry hopping with fully cured as compared to fully 
     green hops.  
     
     I have had good success using my homegrown hops when properly cured 
     and stored.  I have used them for both bittering and aroma, but favor 
     aroma use as in this realm they seemed to excel above many 
     commercially available hops.  This is, of course, not a matter of 
     variety, but of availability and issues regarding storage.  You also 
     do not need to conduct  trials to establish bittering levels, and the 
     fact that by being more gentle in your drying regime, you actually can 
     do some things better than the way the commercial producers do as a 
     matter of practicality.  Most hops are oasted (dried) at roughly 150 
     F, and while economical and quick, it is also a little hard on the 
     subtle and easily volatalized oils.  You also get a secondary 
     satisfaction of having nurtured them yourself, which means more to 
     some than others.
     
     I believe it is sound advice to measure up various opinions expressed 
     on HBD regarding beer and brewing with a fair bit of skepticism and a 
     whole bunch of wonder.  Try things out yourself.  The worst thing that 
     could happen is that you wont like the batch.  There are myriad 
     reasons why something might not work for Joe in Indy, but will work 
     Dave in Dallas, not the least being the differences in their palates.
     
     cheers,
     --dave (in sacto)

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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 14:02:51 -0600
From: Darrell <darrell at montrose.net>
Subject: Chile beer, habaneros, etc.

My two cents worth: (NOW you say $0.02... wait till it happens to you!)

Everyone seems so concerned about washing your hands thoroughly after
handling the peppers, so that you don't get any of the hot stuff in your
eyes.

I have gotten the hot stuff in my eyes - had it squirt in as I bit into
a Jalapeno.  It hurts, and you think you're going to be blind, but then
you live.

My warning is this:  Normally you (meaning the more sanitarily minded of
us) wash your hands *after* going to the bathroom.  Think about what you
have been handling, and what you are about to touch, and trust me... You
don't want to touch it until you have washed your hands!

- --
Darrell Garton
Montrose, CO


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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 15:12:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: kit <klemmonds at aristotle.net>
Subject: Looking for a little tartness

Hey guys and gals,

I've been trying to brew a close facsimile to Blue Moon Belgian White for
the last few months with some success.  The only thing I'm missing in my
batches is the tang or tartness abundant in Blue Moon.  Does anyone have any
ideas about how Blue Moon gets this tartness?  I've even considered adding a
little vitamin C to the secondary fermenter since it is water soluble, but I
want to hold off before I try anything too crazy.

Any pointers or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

BYEBYE
__________________________________________________________
Unless a reviewer has the courage to give you 
unqualified praise, I say ignore the bastard.
			John Steinbeck
__________________________________________________________
Kit Lemmonds
klemmonds at aristotle.net


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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 15:13:40 -0500
From: Rob Kienle <rkienle at interaccess.com>
Subject: CP Bottle Fillers: A Decision Reached

Many thanks to all for their contributions to my recent decision-making
process regarding CF Bottle Fillers. The most popular unit from my
respondents was the Braukunst filler, though pretty much everyone was
satisfied with whatever brand they were using. Personally I decided on
the Hoptech model, which was distinguished by a single two-way valve on
the top (turn one way for gas, the other for liquid) and an adjustable,
"hands-off" pressure relief valve. Thought I'd make this post to report
my total satisfaction with the model I selected; it's truly a one-handed
operation and a breeze to use. You just insert the thing into the
bottle, turn the valve one way for gas to purge, then the other way to
fill. You adjust the pressure relief valve before beginning, to slightly
under the PSI level given the bottle during the purge, which means that
beer flows quite automatically into the bottle after turning back the
two-way valve. On my first session with the thing my only problem was a
little bit of operator error (don't lose that seal!) that regretably
involved a faceful of beer. Otherwise, little or no foaming and fully
carbonated beer upon completion. A highly recommended setup. No
affiliation, etc., etc., just one satisfied user.

- --
Cheers4beers,
Rob Kienle
Chicago, IL
rkienle at interaccess.com



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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 13:37:25 PDT
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at kansas.net>
Subject: # G Corny's/ PBW vs Iodophor/Congrats!/Homegrown Is A Good Thing?

		The Jethro Gump Report

3 Gallon Corny's-
	The one I use for yeast reconstitution, attemperation and pitching is a
ball lock job that stands 17 inches high at the handle, the high point, and
is about 8.25 inches wide. YMMV.

PBW on Iodophor Stained Brew Hoses-
	No go. Works well on the silicone stuff, but not on the polyethylene and
vinyl hoses.

Congratulations!-
	To Al Korzonas, George Fix and the rest of the Award Winners, let me offer
my warmest congrats! I must say that I am especially proud of the Derby
Brew Club for their Club of the Year honor.  Chris Kaufman (Gold Medal
Winner, last year) and the rest of the gang down there certainly deserve
the award, if only for their outstanding  promotion of our hobby/profession
at such places as the Wichita Festival and other venues. 
	As for Mr. Fix, let it be known that his kind words to me when I enjoyed
some success at competition remain among the highlights of my brewing
career.  I am very pleased to be able to return the compliment!
	It was recently stated on another forum that the only people that care
about awards are those that win them. I wish to refute that here, in that I
personally care a lot that Al, and George, and the Derby gang were honored.
It means that their endeavors over the years have been recognized by their
peers, and that their products exemplify the current state of the art of
the brewing sciences and arts. It means a lot to me, 'cos I feel I know
them, through this Digest. I have personally met Chris and a few of the
fellas from Derby. I am as proud of them as I am sure they are!  Such
honors should happen to every brewer, at least once!
	Now, when am you blokes going to send me a bottle of the winning beer? 
I'm sure you have just too much on your hands and would really like to get
it off your hands!           ;-)
	Not having yet seen the full list of winners, I wonder, how did George
DePiro do?

Homegrown Hops-
	It seems to me that there are valid arguments on both sides of this fence.
I personally wouldn't use them, 'cos I'm too lazy to grow and care for the
things, and for the same reason that I prefer to use commercially prepared
smoked malts, and that is for repeatability. Nothing would jerk my chain
like making a jamming beer, say one that won at the Nationals, and then not
being able to repeat it!
	On the other side, there's probably no greater satisfaction than being
able to say, "I grew these hops, and this barley, and malted it, and
ranched this yeast from a bottle from the Titanic"  and all that. For those
that have the time, inclination and patience for such pursuits, have at it!

Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"

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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:49:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick)
Subject: Re: Acidulated malt (sauermalz)

>He uses a special malt he has
>imported from Germany, called "sour malt" to adjust mash pH. [snip]
>Does anyone in the collective know of a supplier who can
>get this malt? Our local suppliers have been unresponsive and I have
>been unable to find it elsewhere. Respond to me directly or post for
>everyone enlightenment! Thanks!
>Dwayne McKeel
>drmckeel at twave.net

Dwayne,
As far as I know, the only maltster that makes "sour malt" is Weyermann in
Germany. It was recently described in the 1997 Brewer's Market Guide put
out by Brewing Techniques. It is also known as Acidulated malt. I called
all of the wholesalers that might carry the malt with no luck. Steinbart,
Brewmaster, and Crosby & Baker all carry part of Weyermann's line of malt,
but none carry the acidulated malt. So it's a good guess that you will have
to call a retailer/mail order outfit that has enough buying power to order
it direct from Weyermann. Otherwise, beg and plead with your brewmaster
friend. Or, since we are not bound by the Reinheitsgebot, why not use
Lactic Acid?
Good luck in your quest.


Sean Mick
Mick's Homebrew Supplies
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew



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