---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Calling All Brewers, Judges, and Stewards (RBoland)
  Mashing Rye (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Environmentally friendly stuff (Doug Otto)
  Thanks for Advice: I won! (Kate Cone)
  Hb flatulence, iodophor & plants (haafbrau1)
  Cyser ("David Johnson")
  Lime (A. J. deLange)
  re Anchor's web site (Tim Fields)
  more AHA ranting (Jeff Sturman)
  Airlock Question ("Joshua Penney")
  Re:  Stuck lager fermentation (George De Piro)
  RE: Cincinnati Brewbubs (Jeremy Price)
  Beer words (Keith Busby)
  Altbier (Michael W Bardallis)
  Wine Yeast (Sue Armstrong and John Bell)
  Help me pick 2 beers... ("Kelly C. Heflin")
  munich malt (daniel thaler)
  Water and Stuff (XKCHRISTIAN)
  Campden Tablets, Cyser and Braggot ("David R. Burley")
  Hop rehydration (Keith Busby)
  Careful There! (The Holders)
  Re: Basement brewery design, keg drains, Fix book (216) 397-4352" <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu>
  RE:  Those stubborn kettle stains (Richard Gardner)
  Soap! (Al Korzonas)
  headless weizen (Steve Jackson)
  All-Grain Procedure Question (Trent A Neutgens)
  Re: Flatulence...what a gas! ("Michael E. Dingas")
  Warm your Yeasties? (Chasman)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:02:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: RBoland at aol.com
Subject: Calling All Brewers, Judges, and Stewards

Calling All Brewers, Judges, & Stewards!

The St. Louis Brews are holding their seventh annual Happy Holiday Homebrew
Competition on Friday, December 12 and Saturday, December 13, 1997.  The
competition is sanctioned by the AHA, registered with the BJCP, and part of
the Midwest Homebrewer of the Year program.

We invite all homebrewers to submit their beers and meads for evaluation by
panels of experienced judges.  Our primary objective is to provide accurate,
complete, and useful feedback to the brewer.  AHA style guidelines will be
used with the addition of a Christmas Brau category with two subcategories.

We also invite all BJCP registered judges and those interested in stewarding
to assist us in evaluating the beers submitted.  Limited accommodations in
Brews members homes are available; you can indicate your need on the
Judge/Steward registration form.

Our secondary objective is to have fun, and a good time will be had by all!
 All judges, stewards, and spouses are invited to attend our Saturday holiday
banquet and party as our guests.  

Beers will be accepted by mail between November 20 and December 6.  Please
visit our web site, stlbrews.org, for competition information and on-line
registration.

We look forward to judging your beers.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:59:35 -0700
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at stanford.edu>
Subject: Mashing Rye

Jeff Sturman asks about mashing rye:
> After a
> painfully slow sparge I emptied the mash tun and I found quite a bit of
> thick, pasty, sticky brown gunk stuck to the sides of the mash tun and all
> over the false bottom.  This gunk was *very* sweet, which I'm sure is not a
> good sign.  And my efficiency was below par at about 24 pt/#/gal.  Is this
> paste normal in a rye mash?  I'm sure I lost quite a bit of sugar in this
> paste.  How can I overcome this problem in the next mash?  

I once made a 100% malted rye mini mash.  It was stickier than elementary
school paste.  I have made two rye beers since then.  I used the cereal
mash technique used by the big boys and it has worked pretty well, even with
over 40% rye.

In a cereal mash starchy adjuncts are mashed with ~10% of the pale malt
to be used in the beer.  I used the 40-60-70 regime.  The 40 is good
because it breaks down the gums that cause most of the problems.  After
the mash this is brought to a boil, further loosening things up.  After
a short boil, say 15', this is added to the main mash and remashed 
with the rest of the grain.  Make sure to do another 40 rest in the
main mash.  I had perfectly normal runoff with this method.
- -- 
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb

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Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:55:14 -0700
From: Doug Otto <dotto at calweb.com>
Subject: Environmentally friendly stuff

iodophor would be the obvious choice but I'd be willing to bet you could =
end up financially better by changing girlfriends rather that sanitizing =
agents

Just out of curiousity, just where do you get your water if "chlorine" =
is out of the question? is it green?


*grin*


- ------------------------------

dan> out of curiosity: My girlfriend and i are wondering what the most
dan> effective and ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY sanitation method is.  I
dan> am currently using plain bleach and water.  However, as an
dan> environmental scientist, she wants to stop supporting the
dan> chlorine industry altogether.  

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Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 08:51:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: katecone at ime.net (Kate Cone)
Subject: Thanks for Advice: I won!

To all HBD'rs who responded last March to my request for one-line advice for
first time brewing: Thanks! I won first place last month in our local Common
Ground Fair homebrew competition for my stout. It was my second batch of beer. 

You know who you are, but appreciation goes especially to Dave Bartz of HBD
and Gourmet Brewer, who supplied me with not only my brewing supplies (all
the way from Indiana to Maine), but gave me the winning recipe. It was a
sweet stout that my husband liked even better than Guinness Extra Stout.
Maybe he was just being kind, but then again, maybe not. 

Also, Kit Anderson, dentist and homebrewer and cook and beer judge
extraordinaire: thanks for encouraging me to enter, even though I was new at
brewing; Jim Bentson, who walked me through getting the beer from primary to
secondary while I was also getting through a family tragedy, and the many
others who e-mailed me off-digest to cheer me on. Also: Beer for Dummies has
an excellent section on bottling. I never had to call on anyone to help me
with my first time at that because of the step-by-step of Marty Nachel's book. 

Regarding winning contests: one of the best of show winners at Common Ground
Fair was a blonde ale.

BREW-PUBBING: And I notice a lot of requests/comments about where to go for
good micro beer across the country. If anyone has traveled New England,
please e-mail me about your experiences. My book is published, but I'm
keeping it up to date on my web page, and I'm writing now for The
Celebrator, Ale Street News, Brew Magazine and Yankee Brew News. Any
comments on food and beer are appreciated.

Kate Cone, "What's Brewing in New England," 1997, Down East Books, Camden, ME.
katecone at ime.net
http://w3.ime.net/~katecone (web page needs fleshing out, but that will come)


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Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 08:54:42 -0400
From: haafbrau1 at juno.com
Subject: Hb flatulence, iodophor & plants

Your HB flatulence is caused by the unfermented sugars in your beer, that
which gives your beer body.  A small price to pay for your brew (provided
you have ventilation and don't have lovin' on your mind)
	I can say from experience that iodophor water doesn't harm
plants.  Certainly not the weeds and grass I've dumped it on.  In fact,
they seemed to like it.
Paul Haaf
haafbrau1 at juno.com

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Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 07:50:41 -0500
From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj at inwave.com>
Subject: Cyser

Chris,
    It must be that time of year. I also chose to make my firsof Apple =
brews this year. My orchard has just reached the point that I can get =
enough apples for a batch of cider and a batch of cyser.I actually had a =
similar experience with the first of the two batches (the second skipped =
the sulfites. You'll see why.). I sulfited at about the same rate as you =
after I checked the pH and based the dose on a chart from Ashton Station =
found in my cider book. I used ale yeast initially at about 30 hrs. and =
again at 3 days....nada. Then I though that I remembered (as did a =
member of my brew club) that ale yeasts were sensitive to sulfites. So =
then I added champagne yeast at 5 days. Finally fermentation started at =
seven days. It is now in the secondary and doing fine. I then decided to =
make a Cyser. To do this I heated my juice to 170 deg for 30 min =
dissolved the honey (5 lbs) cooled and pitched the yeast. Both are just =
starting to clear. I suspect that both are going to need awhile in the =
secondary. Any comments?    Dave



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:45:25 -0500
From: ajdel at mindspring.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Lime

Grant W. Knechtel asked about the use of lime in treatment of brewing
water. In particular he wondered if people with soft water might use it to
neutralize the acidity of high kilned malts. This could indeed be done and
I'll get back to that in a minute. The usual use of lime is by brewers (or
water treatment facilities) with HARD water.It is, as Grant notes, quite
alkaline so that if a quantity of lime is added to a portion of the water
to be treated the pH goes way up causing magnesium hydroxide to
precipitate. Goodbye magnesium hardness. This is the basis for so called
'split treatement'. After decantation off the magnesium hydroxide gel the
remainder of the water is added and

  Ca++ + 2HCO3- + Ca(OH)2 -> 2CaCO3 + 2H2O

drops calcium carbonate thus reducing the calcium hardness and alkalinity.
Note that only temporary calcium hardness is removed in this way. Carbonate
will have to be added (usually in the form of sodium carbonate) if it is
desired to remove permanent hardness.

The reason that you don't see this scheme mentioned in homebrewing texts is
that the amount of lime to be  added must be fairly precisely calculated
and even if this is done the results are not entirely predictable. DeClerk
recommends that 3 test batches be treated: one with the calculated amount,
one with 10% more lime than calculated and one with 10% less. The treated
water samples are then analyzed for hardness and alkalinity to see which
dosing gave the best results.

While the calculations are not involved and the hardness and alkalinity
measurements not that difficult to do (you must also either measure acidity
or calculate it from the original water pH and alkalinity in order to
calculate the lime addition) this is beyond what most home brewers are
willing to do. The method is (or was) apparently quite commonly used in
commercial scale brewing.

Now as for neutralizing malt acidity: each millimole of Ca(OH)2 (74 mg)
releases 2 mEq (milliequivalents) of hydroxyl ions and 2 mEq of Ca++. The 2
mEq of hydroxide increase alkalinty by about 100 mg as CaCO3. The 2 mEq of
Ca++ will cause the release of about 2/3.5 = 0.57 mEq of H+ in the mash
which will neutralize an equal amount of the hydroxyl. Thus each 74 mg of
Ca(OH)2 supplies a net 1.4 mEq of alkalinity or 71 mg as CaCO3 to the mash.
Perhaps these numbers will look more familiar on a per liter basis. 74 mg/L
Ca(OH)2 added to the water will increase its alkalinity by 100 mg/L as
CaCO3. The net alkalinity increase after accounting for the calcium-phytin
reaction is 74 mg/L as CaCO3. This is what's available to neutralize malt
acidity. If you have data on the titratable acidity of the malts you are
using you can calculate the expected strike pH but is always best to do a
mini mash with the grist composition and water you intend to use and check
the pH.

A. J. deLange
 - Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.

- --> --> --> To reply remove "nosp" from address. <-- <--



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Date: Sat, 18 Oct 97 11:24:58 -0500
From: Tim Fields <tfields at his.com>
Subject: re Anchor's web site

Does anyone know what happened to Anchor Brewing's web site? Seems to 
have vanished...

 -Tim

   Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA
   tfields at his.com


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Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:30:43 -0700
From: brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman)
Subject: more AHA ranting

I read Brian Rezac's response to my rant on the hbd.  In 1996 all one had
to do is present the bottom of your broken GABF glass at the front entrance
and a new glass was issued.  This is a fact I witnessed firsthand.  Whether
or not that was official policy is another matter.

This year we were told at the front table [paraphrase] 'we're not supplying
bags this year because so many of the participating breweries are offering
free bags.'  So many?  I think I found 2 breweries offering bags.  I got
mine from A-B.  Several people stopped me and asked me where I got my bag
because nobody could seem to find any.  I never saw or heard of AHA/Zymurgy
bags.  We entered Currigan Hall at 5:55 pm on Friday and you were
temporarily out of bags?  Give me a break.  What is the reason for the bags
being at the back of Currigan Hall?

I could be wrong about the special issue price increase from 1996 to 1997,
but it has increased quite a bit over the past 5 years.  Regardless, I have
home brewing *books* on my shelves that cost only a few more dollars than
this magazine.  The hops issue has been on my shelves for three weeks now
and I haven't sold a single copy.  Just like last year, I will have to
discount the thing to get rid of it.  $9.95 for a magazine is ludicrous.
My customers don't even give it a second thought.

As for the GABF, here's a logical solution:  Charge $20 for admission and
limit the number of tickets sold.  Offer AHA/IBS members the first chance
to purchase tickets.  Then sell to the general public.  This year's
festival was so crowded it was impossible to enjoy the event.  I spent half
the evening standing in line. We were planning on attending the Friday and
Saturday evening sessions.  After the Friday evening experience, we opted
for pub crawling on Saturday, as did many of our traveling friends.  Of
course this idea won't even be considered because the driving force behind
the GABF is profit for the organizers.  And there's nothing wrong with
capitalism, but to promote the festival otherwise is a farce.  Ditto for
the AHA.

What was the explanation for moving the member's-only tasting?  That is the
one session when a beer lover can actually enjoy the festival.  Moving it
to Thursday causes one major problem.  Most festival goers take vacation
and miss work or close their businesses to attend the festival. This year I
would have had to close my business Thursday and Friday just to attend the
member's only tasting, and the average person would have had to miss two
days of work, or more, in order to attend.  My opinion is that the
member's-only tasting was moved so that the Saturday afternoon session
could be opened to the public and the AOB could make more money on ticket
sales.  How was attendance at the members-only tasting?  I'll bet it was
considerabely lower than normal, but the profits made on Saturday afternoon
more than made up for it.  Please move the member's-only tasting back to
Saturday afternoon, so that most of the MEMBERS that support the AOB can
attend.

jeff
casper, wy



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Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:51:48 -0400
From: "Joshua Penney" <brian-fran at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Airlock Question

I recently brewed a batch of port=20
after installing the airlock i realized my girlfriend had drank all the =
vodka
instead I used Cuervo 1800

First of all, this should work right?

second, I also think the cooling air or something Sucked Some of the =
Tequila in
through the Lock

Will this hurt brewing process any?

Thank You,
Newby
brian-fran at worldnet.att.net




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Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:09:53 -0700
From: George De Piro <gdepiro at fcc.net>
Subject: Re:  Stuck lager fermentation

Hi all,

Capt. Marc wonders why his lager fermentation stuck.  He describes how he 
racked
the beer off the yeast two times during the fermentation, once at SG 
1.040, and
again at 1.027 (OG = 1.063).

The stuck fermentation is easy to understand in this situation: the beer
was removed from the majority of the yeast too early.  Aside from 
stopping your
fermentation, you can end up with higher levels of diacetyl (and other 
things) in
the beer because the yeast will not be populous enough to reduce it in a 
reasonable
amount of time.

I don't usually rack out of the primary until fermentation is over.  I 
often don't
use a "secondary" for ales, and use it for lagers mostly to harvest yeast 
before
lowering the temperature of the beer to near freezing.

The name "secondary fermenter" is somewhat of a mystery to me; 
fermentation is
pretty much over by the time the beer gets there unless you feed it more 
wort or
sugar.  To me, the secondary is really a clearing tank where I can allow 
the beer
to fall bright and/or dry hop it.

I believe that the confusion caused by naming the clearing tank a 
"secondary
fermenter" is common and causes many people some heartache.

In this case, adding a fresh, large yeast culure should finish the beer.

Have fun!

George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

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Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:33:23 -0400
From: Jeremy Price <pricejy at UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: RE: Cincinnati Brewbubs

This message is in peply to several requests for information on Cincinnati
Brewpubs:


As an avid Homebrewer and beer lover, I think this info on my favorite
brew-pubs will be useful when you come to Cincinnati to visit:

I will start with the places downtown:

Main Street Brewery: This was Cincinnati's first micro-brew pub; it opener
several years ago, and is still going strong. Located on Main street, this
brew-pub/restaurant has several good beers, if you go on the weekend, it is
far to crowded with people drinking Miller products. If you go go early to
avoid the crowd, and be sure to try the Steamboat Stout.

Barrel House: My personal favorite! Within walking distance from Main
street brewery they have about 6-7 fresh ales and lagers on tap. Come on
Friday night for a pint of unfiltered "real ale" drawn using an authentic
beer engine.  Never too crowed, this pub usually has cool Grateful
dead-type bands, pool tables and good food. If you go for happy hour, pints
are only $1.50.

Rock Bottom brewery. This place is Located in the heart of Downtown; right
next to Fountain Square. Although I have never been there, I have heard
that the beer blows, but the food is great. This place was built right
downtown for the business - lunch goers. Expect to pay at least $3.50/pint. 

Near downtown:

Brew-works in Ky. Take I-75/71 south and take the pike street exit (second
exit after you cross the river) You can't miss this place. The building
itself used to be the old Bavarian brewery, which closed several years ago.
It was restored into a party store, a beer store (with the largest
selection of beer in the world!) a restaurant, brew-pub, cigar lounge with
walk in humidor, and brew on premises. This place rocks! The master brewer
was the first ever to win 4 medals at this years American beer festival! At
any given night there can be 8-16 brews on the menu; most german style:
Alt, Kolsch, Pilsner, Bock, HeffeWeizen, Munich Helles, Dortmunder etc.
Also on the menu is several Pale ales, porter, an incredible imperial Stout
(sometimes served with chocolate), a Scottish wee heavy, Belgian triple,
and even a barley-wine.  Beyond these brews, there are also several other
beers on tap. The food is to die for, Shepherds pie, German and polish
sausages, fresh pizzas and pasta. Ah man! Maybe I will go again tonight!
There are three bars on three floors, and don't forget to check out the
pool tables in the cigar lounge. Under new management, there will soon be
an out door beer garden! YES! 

The Holy Grail: This in a new brew-pub Located near the University of
Cincinnati. Mostly a local college crowd, this is the best place to go
before Bearcat Basketball or football games. Although Oldenberg beers suck
in the bottle, they are great fresh from the tap. They probably have 10
different beers on tap; 


All of these places are well within driving distances from one another.
Clifton (where UC is) is about 5 minutes from Downtown. The Brewworks in KY
is also about 5 minutes from downtown. 

I don't know what other pubs you may have gotten of the pub search, but
these are the ones that I suggest going to. If you need better directions
to any of these brewbubs I can e-mail you more specific directions. 

I hope this helps:

Jeremy Price


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Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:14:26 -0500
From: Keith Busby <kbusby at ou.edu>
Subject: Beer words

Hector Landaeta asks about words for beer and ale in Spanish. Here's my
twopennorth (as my Dad used to say):

I am not a Spanish speaker, just a humble Romance Philologist, but: the
Spanish word "cerveza" is derived from medieval Latin "cerevisia" (a word
of Gaulish, i.e., Celtic origin; it it not found in classical Latin); the
French have an old word, "cervoise", which is cognate and which is what
they would use if they were trying to be archaic and say "ale". The words
"beer/bier/biere/birrha", etc., are Germanic in origin, and probably come
into other languages from Dutch "bier", although there is already a cognate
in Anglo-Saxon. Technically, I believe ale/cervoise was non-hopped and that
beer designates ale that has been hopped. Clearly, there is some semantic
bed-hopping (if you'll pardon the pun) going on here: in Spanish, one word
has come to designate both ale and beer, whereas English and French have
two; I think Italian uses a beer derivative. "Ale" is also Germanic (from
Anglo-Saxon "alu"), and is cognate with Danish "ol" (where the "o" has a
stroke through it). In practice, since most beers are hopped today, there
is only a need for one word, so Spanish is quite sensible; also, in British
English, the word "ale" is never used as a generic designator, only "beer";
the expression "a pint of ale" sounds Dickensian. This has been done from
memory without consulting etymological dictionaries, so humbly submitted, etc.

Keith Busby


Keith Busby
George Lynn Cross Research Professor
University of Oklahoma
Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies
780 Van Vleet Oval, Room 202
Norman, OK 73019
Tel.: (405) 325-5088
Fax: (405) 325-0103

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Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 18:52:40 EDT
From: dbgrowler at juno.com (Michael W Bardallis)
Subject: Altbier

Esteemed colleagues,

Has anyone out in HBDland had the dual experience of tasting Altbier at
its home in Dusseldorf and of tasting the Altbier at the Atlanta
Beergarten? I have visited the Beergarten several times and am struck by
the similarity of their alt to my own homebrewed version; sadly, I have
not been able to visit Dusseldorf. My homebrewed alt is based entirely on
book learnin', and I could use the benefit of a little real-world
experience. 

Thanx,

Mike Bardallis
Geekus cerevisiae var. hirsutus

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Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:38:40 +1000
From: Sue Armstrong and John Bell <paradise at tpgi.com.au>
Subject: Wine Yeast

Hi.
Does anyone have experience with using wine yeasts for normal (not
barley wine) brewing?  I finished boiling and cooling an ESB yesterday
only to find that the yeast starter was definitely U/S. I live a long
way from the nearest source of home brew supplies and the only
alternative available was a specialist wine yeast (Lalvin D245 - a S.
Cerevisiae with some killer effect).  So in it went. I know how it
behaves in grape must, but wonder about the effects in wort. Any
thoughts?

John Bell


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Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 09:24:46 -0400
From: "Kelly C. Heflin" <kheflin at monmouth.com>
Subject: Help me pick 2 beers...

I'm trying to help my brother pick 2 beers in Kegs, for his wedding.

Yes, I am brewing some also, but he wants to buy 2 kegs anyway.

Please give me suggestions for a lager and an ale. I think he 
would like an octoberfest, and then a light colored ale. I think a
 Sierra Nevada is a bit hoppy for the average wedding goer.



So what does the average person want to drink. Or on the 
other hand should we care???


THanks for any advice, Remember we need kegs. 

kelly

kheflin at monmouth.com


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Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:44:20 -0700
From: daniel thaler <dthaler39 at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: munich malt

Maybe a stupid question. Are there any recipes that use munich malt as
the base malt? What would be the problems/benefits of such a brew? TIA
Dan Thaler

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Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 07:42:21 -0800 (PST)
From: XKCHRISTIAN at ccvax.fullerton.edu
Subject: Water and Stuff

Hello HBD,

    I just bought my first home and man is it a lot of work... moved to
Chatsworth CA and I can not believe the amount of chlorine (???) in our
tap
water!  Sometimes when I leave the water running, my eyes begin to
become  irritated.  I was thinking of hooking up my good old R/O unit but
lately I have read here on the HBD that high levels of chlorine will damage
the membrane.  The person that sold me the unit told me that I needed to
give the unit a teaspoon of bleach every few months to kill off nasties in the
system (it does have a back flush in it too). So I am confused in what to do. 
Any recommendations are welcome.

     If there are any HBDers in the Northridge/Chatsworth area, please
drop me a note/call I am interested in finding local brew shops, clubs, pubs,
water info...

     Congratulations to Al on the new book.  You and the rest of the
HBD have helped me immensely with my brewing.  I am a blind brewer and
I have called on many of you for suggestions/tips over the years.  The
collective has been very good to me.  I can say I am a good brewer and I
make good beer because of what I have learned here.  

     One thing that I am sure glad of is that this forum continues to be
available in a text format.  This makes quality brewing ifnormation 
accessable to the blind and visually impaired allowing braille and speech
output.  Long live the HBD;-)!

Keith Christian
818 882-5681
kchris1 at lausd.k12.ca.us

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Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 11:46:44 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Campden Tablets, Cyser and Braggot

Brewsters:

Chris Cooper addresses issues of interest =

to many brewers at this time of year Cyser =

(apple juice and honey) and
 Braggot  ( wort and honey) and says:

>, I have Charlie P's Mead book and another mead text and they
>both mentioned using "camden" (sp?) tablets before pitching the yeast.  =
I
>guess the idea here is that the "camden" will kill any nasties in the
cider
>without having to boil it (avoiding pectin haze problems latter on).

Campden Tablets are a form of =

Sodium (I think) metabisulfite in a =

convenient pill size, so you don't have
 to weigh it out.  It is an old fashioned
 British remedy used in canning to prevent
 the spoilage of fruit in compote and
 the oxidation of fruits after mashing or cutting.
 According to Duncan And Acton -
 "Progressive WInemaking"
  a Campden Tablet contains =

0.44 grams (7 British grains) of sulphite.

They further say:

"The object in this case is to kill sulfite
 sensitive micro-organisms, which include
 the highly undesirable acetifying bacteria
 and many of the equally undesirable
 lactic acid bacteria, and to inhibit
 temporarily the growth of more sulfite
 resistant organisms for a long enough
 time to allow the selected wine yeast
 to become firmly established ..." =


Now on further reading it is clear than D&A
( and perhaps Charlie P - although I haven't
 read the book) didn't fully understand that
 sulfite must be below a pH of 3.3 when they
 made several recommendations on its use.
 They suggest a 10% solution be kept
 around for "sterilizing " equipment, etc. =

and denigrate those who suggest using
 an acidic 1% solution.
 Sorry, but this just won't work this way.

Plain metabisulfute  won't work effectively. =

  I have commented on this here several times. =

Sulfite as an anti-oxidant and as a disinfectant
 only works if the solution is acidic
 ( which sodium or potassium metabisulfite by itself isn't)
 and has a pH of below 3.3. =


This pH of less than 3.3 is a natural one for
 winemaking for all but the ripest of =

desert grown grapes, so sulfite is
 a great help in making excellent wine. =

 However, it is not useful at beer pH's.
 I don't know about cider, but its pH could be
 down there in the less than 3.3 range
( anyone with data please comment). =

 However with Braggot, it is unlikely it will
 be there, since the natural buffers in the
 malt will probably bring it up in the 4.5 or
 higher pH region.  Thus as you will see below,
 these need to be treated differently
 to overcome the micro-organism content of honey
 and potential spoilage of any beverages =

made from honey.

Well, somewhere else along the line
 I read that above 50 ppm sulfite is effective
 against bacteria ( esp acetic and lacto bacillus)
 and above 100 ppm against most wild yeast
 - esp Klockerna Apiculata as I recall. =

(Sweet white wine at greater than 10 %v/v of
 alcohol is preserved with 100 ppm of sulfite - for example)
 So the object is to add sufficient sulfite (50 ppm)
 to destroy unwanted bacteria and
 not inhibit yeast , wait for a few ( at least 4 hours)
 to 24 hours for it to dissipate naturally by
 reacting with the oxygen and other components
 in the must (crushed fruit or whatever) and =

then pitch the yeast.  a single Campden tablet
 will generate 50ppm of sulfite per British gallon
 by design.  So 4 campden tablets per 5 US gallons
 will generate 50 ppm, which is a desirable
 amount to prevent most bio-organic spoilage
 if the yeast is pitched quickly.

Chris says:

> decided to make a cyser first, I boiled and cooled the honey and =

>added it to the cider in the carboy along with 10 of the "camden" tablet=
s,
    =


OOPS! This is about 120ppm sulfite =

and no wonder you got this following result:

>this set for about 30 hours with only a paper towel over the opening. =

Next I
>pitched a 1qt. healthy yeast starter, it's been 24 hours and I see nada,=

zip,
>nothing happening.  Any ideas? =


Yep. Too much sulfite.

Here's how to get out of this.
  Take a cup or so of your mixture dilute
 with two cups of water.
 Re-pitch the yeast here
 and in a few hours you will have
 an active fermentation.
 Add a cup of your must to this and let
 it ferment again.  Repeat this, doubling
 the volume each time you discern active
 fermentation and you will have the whole
 batch fermenting in  a day or so.
  This works because the CO2 from the
 fermentation sweeps out the excess SO2
 and the addition of each sample to an
 equal volume of fermenting must keeps
 the SO2 below the 100 ppm range.

Keep checking the pH and depending
 on how much honey you added,
 the pH will fall very low because of the
 low concentration of buffers in your system.
  If it falls too low, the yeast will be unable
 to continue fermenting
 ( the dreaded "stuck fermentation" )
 as the media is outside the optimum
 active pH range of certain enzyme systems. =

 Add chalk(calcium carbonate) to bring
 the pH back into the 3 - 4 pH unit range.

>Part two of this adventure will be the making of the Braggot, as there
will be
>no fruit content in this brew I will simply follow normal brewing
procedures =

>with the addittion of the Honey to the boil.  My question here is should=

the
>honey be added for the full boil or for only the last 15-30 minutes (jus=
t
>enough to kill off any wild yeasts and bacteria).

NEVER boil the honey or you lose all
 those aromatics which make honey, honey.
 In some cases of really strong honey like
 eucalyptus or heather, you may choose a short boil.
Add it to the fermenter after the malt boil and =

cool and only after you have =

heat pasteurized it and cooled it.

Here's how I do it. 4 pints of water =

brought to a boil, 12.5 pounds of honey
 added (for 5 gallons of mead), temperature
 is brought back to 180Fwith constant stirring
 and allowed to stand for 30 minutes,
 covered, cool in a cold water bath
 or other method. =

 This can be used to add to your brew.
  You will use proportionately less honey
 for your Braggot, depending on the
 desired alcohol content..
 =


Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 10:54:02 -0500
From: Keith Busby <kbusby at ou.edu>
Subject: Hop rehydration

Yesterday, I brewed an ESB and collected what I thought was 6.5 gals. After
boiling vigorously for 1hr 20 mins, I was only able to transfer 4.5 gals to
my primary. Assuming my initial volume was right, was my boil too
long/vigorous? Or might the 3.5 oz. of leaf hops have absorbed .5 gals
during their rehydration?

Keith Busby


Keith Busby
George Lynn Cross Research Professor
University of Oklahoma
Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies
780 Van Vleet Oval, Room 202
Norman, OK 73019
Tel.: (405) 325-5088
Fax: (405) 325-0103

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Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 09:47:46 -0700
From: The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com>
Subject: Careful There!

Jeremy,

In digest #2533, you said:

<"I was thinking that I could wire a 3-way switch to the unswitched side
of the heater
and select between neutral and "negative" 110V to allow 220V for faster
boosts. "

Sounds like an accident waiting to happen IMPO (In My Professional
Opinion). I foresee a couple of things happening eventually.

1. The switch will burn up because the load is too heavy.
2. A disastrous short-circuit inside the switch.

The only way that I could see this could be done safely is to have
interlocked contactors, or a "main" 3 pole switch that would disconnect
both power phases, as well as the neutral,  BEFORE you switch the 3 way
switch.

If you had the heater under load, and switch the 3 way switch connected
like you described, you stand a strong possibility of the switch
EXPLODING in your hand.

Take it from the guy that has to repair disasters like this, you really
want to THINK out your design! I think KennyEddy's idea of using a
bridge to switch the power is a MUCH better alternative!

Lets be safe out there!

Wayne Holder AKA Zymie
Industrial Electrician in Long Beach CA
http://andinator.com/zymico


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Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:00:03 -0500 (EST)
From: "PAUL SHICK (216) 397-4352" <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu>
Subject: Re: Basement brewery design, keg drains, Fix book


Hello All,

	Brian Dulisse asked two questions about basement brewery design. 
First, waste water is usually much easier to deal with in a basement. Older
homes usually have an easily accessible sump to which you can run vinyl tubing
from wort chiller, etc, directly.  Your idea of a dedicated natural gas line
is a good one.  When I set up my system this summer, I had a furnace person
run a 1/2" line with three connectors for NG King Cookers, with two ball 
valve shutoffs in the line (for the gas paranoid, like me.)  The total cost
was $100 and three bottles of oatmeal stout.

	Harlan Bauer asks about welding a connector to the bottom of his
converted keg hot liquor tank.  An easier solution might be to use the
existing drain (I'm guessing a ball valve located on the side?) with an
short siphon tube running from it to the bottom of the keg.  Sabco uses
this for all of their systems, and it works well, leaving less than a cup
of water in the bottom.  It should be easy to bend 3/8" or so pipe into
the required L-shape.

	Finally, George and Laurie Fix's book, An Analysis of Brewing 
Techniques, is indeed out and well worth spending time with.  His chapter
on mashing regimes brings up nearly all of the questions that the HBD
has been dealing with, especially that of protein rests with modern malt.
It really points out how useful a malt analysis for each lot would be for
homebrewers.  However, one can still make educated guesses about the Kolbach
index, etc., for most malts, and go from there.  My only complaint about
the book is that George left out the mathematical models that pointed him
toward the 40-60-70 schedule some years back (according to old HBD postings.)
George, is there any chance you could share these with the more mathematical
HBDers?


			Paul Shick



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Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:46:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: Richard Gardner <rgardner at papillion.ne.us>
Subject: RE:  Those stubborn kettle stains

Several ideas come to mind:

1.  Get some stainless steel "scrubbies," similar to the copper "Choreboys"
but Stainless Steeel.

2.  Get some "PBW" from FiveStar.  Info at http://www.fiveStarAF.com/Homebrew
This is a new product that is being used in many breweries, made for
cleaning SS.  

3.  I've heard about a product called something like "Barkeeper's Friend"
but I've never seen it.

4.  If these are water deposits (Calcium carbonate, etc.) then consider
using an acid based bathroom clearning product like lime-away or shower
power (disclaimer:  I'm sure this use is not approved by the FDA).  Just
don't let it sit too long, and rinse well after scrubbing.  Also you should
let the metal passivate after cleaning (the stainless version of
rusting...the simple reason SS doesn't "rust" is because the Cr in SS
oxidizes first and forms a protective layer for the iron) by getting it damp
then keep it exposed to air for a day or two.  Another option is vinegar.
At last resort, nitric acid (tough to get and work with - can be dangerous).


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Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:40:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Soap!

Larry writes:
>To clean them, fill a sink with hot water to a depth about twice
>the diameter of one of the bottles, add a few squirts of antibacterial hand
>cleaning soap and a dash or so of chlorine to the water, throw in all of
>the tops and let them soak

I would advise against the use of any kind of sudsing soap for cleaning
beer glasses, bottles or brewing equipment.  The film left by soap
(antibacterial or otherwise, and I also suspect that the dilution of
the antibacterial soap in your suggestion would be far below any
useful concentration) will ruin head retention.

I use washing soda (sodium carbonate) or dishwashing *detergent*
(powder... for dishwashing machines) for cleaning although I think
that 5-star PBW would be even better.  I recommend you not soak in
any of these for any amount of time (say, more than a few hours)
simply because with my water, I get a white carbonate film on the
glass items (an probably on the non-glass items too).


Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com

My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running):
     http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/

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Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 12:34:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com>
Subject: headless weizen

I apologize if I'm treading over ground that was covered recently. I
recall seeing someone posting a similar question, but I've been on
vacation for the past two weeks and am still trying to weed through
the stacked up HBDs. Besides, I didn't see any answers to the question
in the next couple days after it was posted.

Anyway, my question.

When I got home from vacation, I stuck a bottle of my recently brewed
(brewed around Labor Day, in the bottle for about four weeks)
hefeweizen in the refrigerator, then pulled it out after it had cooled
down to drinking temperature. Overall I was pleased with the beer, but
there was one major problem that has me quite perplexed. As you
probably guessed from the subject line, the beer had a very minimal
head. A small head will form when I pour, and it disappears completely
within a few minutes.

I noticed this problem before I left on vacation and cracked open a
young bottle. I attributed this to a glass I hadn't washed very well
and the fact that beer hadn't fully conditioned (carbonated) yet. But
I'm  having the same problem two to three weeks later.

Some particulars: The recipe consisted of 45 percent malted wheat and
55 percent DWC pilsner malt. I did a two-step mash, with the first
rest being around 135 for about 20 minutes (sorry I can't be more
specific, the information is at home and I'm currently at the office
checking two weeks worth of backed-up correspondence). The second rest
was somewhat problematic in that I couldn't get my saccrification
temp. as high as I wanted -- I only got up to about 150 because I
feared my mash was already getting too thin and the only way I can
raise temp. in my system is by adding boiling H20 (yes, I made my
first step thicker in anticipation of needing to add more water
later). As I expected, the lower sacc. temp. gave me a beer that's a
little thinner and drier than I was shooting for, but I doubt that had
any effect on heading properties.

This was my first stab at a multi-step mash -- I've only done straight
infusions before -- so maybe I should just chalk it up to
inexperience. But I would like to figure out what I can do differently
next time around.

 -Steve





_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com


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Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:58:00 -0500
From: Trent A Neutgens <tneutgen at isd.net>
Subject: All-Grain Procedure Question

Greetings All,
I have a question I hope some of you can help me with.  I have been
setting up an
all-grain system so I can make the transition from extract brewing.  So
far I have
gotten a keg to convert into a brew pot and a 7 gallon cooler for a
lauter tun/mash
tun.  I am planning on heating my sparge water in the converted keg over
a propane burner and sparging into the cooler directly from there.  My
question is what should I use to collect the run off from my cooler.  I
want to use the keg to boil in after I'm done sparging but there will
still be water in there for the sparge.  I was thinking of using a
different bucket and then transferring back to the keg after I'm done
sparging but I am worried about HSA.  Any Recommendations from the crew?

TIA,
Mmmmmm, CHUBBY beer!!!!
Trent Neutgens
Chaska, MN
tneutgen at isd.net
************************************************************
********Chaska Homebrewers United By Beer Yearnings*********
************************************************************




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Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 22:25:31 -0400
From: "Michael E. Dingas" <dingasm at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Flatulence...what a gas!

SCOTT DUBENDRIS inquired about flatulence. At first I thought, give us a =
break! I was even composing a silly response. Then I read a section of =
'Beer for Dummies' which talked about this 'problem'.=20

There's probably nothing wrong with your beer. However, your manner of =
consuming it may need some adjusting. Apparently, the sediment in the =
bottom of the bottle is dormant but can become reactivated in the =
stomach/intestines. If you are drinking your beer straight from the =
bottle, stop. It's not the accepted way to drink homebrew anyhow. If you =
pour into a glass, don't pour quickly and leave the last 1/2 inch or so =
in the bottle. Discard it or drink is slowly so as to not disturb the =
sediment. In any event, keep the sediment out of your glass.

Geez...you learn something new everyday!

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Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 23:31:35 -0700
From: Chasman <cwhudak at gemini.adnc.com>
Subject: Warm your Yeasties?

Michael wrote:

>Keep it {yeast} cool in the meantime. When you
>finally do pitch it, let it warm to room temperatures so it isn't shocked
>upon pitching, but do nothing else to it. 

Sadly, I can't remember the reference, I think that it was "Brewing" by
Lewis and Young, but you do not have to *warm* yeast before pitching. Yeast
has no problem going from cold to *warm* or room temp wort (so "they" say).
I pitch refrigerated yeast directly into the fermentor just before starting
my heat exchange. The onset of fermentation is visible within 4 hours.
Doesn't sound like *shocked* yeast to me. The only shocking occurs if you
go from warm to cold, hence the need to step down your fermentation temp
when lagering.

Maybe someone can remember the reference to which I'm referring.

Charles





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---