HOMEBREW Digest #2538 Thu 23 October 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  First all-grain batch...Infection????!!!!! (Jim Poder)
  Diastase level = 60 lintner? (Dan Cole)
  Whitelabs yeast ("John Robinson")
  Call for entries ("Christopher V. Sack")
  Torrified Wheat - Malts - Protein Rests (Paul Niebergall)
  Wyeast lager strains alcohol tolerance (Jon Bovard)
  Steinbier ("David R. Burley")
  OG calculation (Jeff Renner)
  Beer World (Sammy Sideburns)
  Philly Competition (JUKNALIS)
  War of the Worts (Alan Folsom)
  Como se dice "Ale" (Darrell)
  Sparge time (Al Korzonas)
  alpha amylase correction ("Eric Fouch")
  Re: Iodine (brian_dixon)
  European Breweries ("Ryan E. Lincoln")
  excellent & cheap valve for gotts (AlannnnT)
  water salts (Adam Holmes)
  Sake (Jason Henning)
  extract tang & HSA / Blueberry blues (nathan_l_kanous_ii)
  Lagering temps (nathan_l_kanous_ii)
  Old yeast (nathan_l_kanous_ii)
  HSA<>"butterscotch" (Some Guy)
  GFCI's ("Forrest Duddles")
  IPA Recipe Request / Water Analysis Help (Trent Neutgens)
  Priming with Corn Syrup (EFOUCH)
  Rehydrating dry yeast - a momily? (Brian Myers)
  Long boil / Preserving Wort ("Andrew Avis")
  Reusing yeast ("Jens P.Maudal")
  Yield pts of fruit (Greg Young)
  Tang (Al Korzonas)
  bottled water (Al Korzonas)
  Whole batch decoction (Al Korzonas)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 02:13:42 -0700 From: Jim Poder <jpoder at asu.uswest.net> Subject: First all-grain batch...Infection????!!!!! Yesterday I brewed my first All-grain brew (yea me!). I thought that it couldn't be *that* much harder than doing a partial mash...and it probably wouldn't have, but... [started writing chronology of my error filled brew day, but hardly necessary] Don't get me wrong, I am really liking this all grain thing, but I'm still getting my system down. "takes some time to work out the kinks," I've been told. After what seemed like a LONG brew day, I finally pitched the yeast at about 11:00PM (didn't get started till about 5, so I guess it wasn't too bad). When I woke up at about 7AM the airlock was bubbling nicely but I looked at the carboy and there was about an inch of small(about pea size), white, spongy looking things floating in my beer! I've never seen anything like this before. I almost cried! Is this an infection? when I came back from mountain biking about noon the spongy things had fallen, and was replaced by a regular kreusen, but some of the spongy things are still floating around in my beer. Now, about 27 hours after pitching the yeast, my brew smells good (love that cascade aroma!) still some floaties caught in the yeast turbulence, but other than that everything seems normal. What am I dealing with? Am I just freaking out over nothing? When I noticed the problem I immediately consulted books by both Papazian and Miller, and found very little on identifying infections. And some of it conflicting! So I tried to use the HBD archive search engine, but this proved almost useless as I got a HUGE number of hits, and the dozen or so I looked at were about sour mashes and lambics! So I thought I better ask the think tank at HBD. What say you? I would hate to have to feed my first all grain brew to the creatures in the sewer! TIA for any advise. -Jim Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 05:49:28 -0400 From: Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net> Subject: Diastase level = 60 lintner? After e-mailing EDME about trying to get information regarding the ability of their diastatic malt to convert starches, they replied "diastase level in the cans is approx 60 lintner - more in the bulk products." Is there anyone out there who help me convert this into something more usable. Is this equivalent to 1 # of Pale Malt, 2? 3? ,etc. For those extract brewers who may need to convert a small amount of starches, this information could be very useful. Thanks, Dan Cole dcole at roanoke.infi.net.this.line.modified.to.prevent.spammers Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:24:24 +0000 From: "John Robinson" <robinson at novalis.ca> Subject: Whitelabs yeast Hi all, I've never used this yeast, so I thought I was eminantly qualified to comment on it. :) Seriously, I recently started brewing in 10 gallon batches and I'm having a very hard time getting enough yeast to keep my lag times under 24 hours. It has required a serious re-examination of my yeast handling. I have had several batches with rather more flaws than I'm used to, and since I changed several things more or less at once, it took quite a while to pin point the problem with any certainty. In an effort to conclusively demonstrate this to myself, I went to a local microbrewery and got about a liter of fresh slurry from them. Since this was a Tuesday and I wasn't brewing until the weekend, I capped it tightly and put it in the fridge. When I looked, that slurry had compacted to a cake about 2 inches high (this is a 2L PET bottle). This is a lot of yeast, even for 10 gallons of beer. I could have pitched that directly into my wort, but I felt that taking it from the fridge and throwing it into a 1.065 SG IPA would be too big of a shock. Consequently I made two .5 gallon starters, which fermented out in a day, and then used one starter each for 5 gallons of beer. Lag time was under 8 hours. The point is that there could be several reasons for poor performance of a vial of yeast slurry. Improper handling and storage prior to purchase, shock from being taken out of the fridge and pitched directly into beer strength wort are just two. Yeast are living organisms. It is only polite to feed them breakfast before you send them to work! :) While I'm sure you *can* pitch a tube of Whitelabs yeast directly, that doesn't mean you *should*! - --- John Robinson "When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. Software Developer I only think about how to solve the problem. But when I NovaLIS Technologies have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know robinson at novalis.ca it is wrong." - Buckminster Fuller (1895-1983) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:33:39 -0400 From: "Christopher V. Sack" <cvsack at ican.net> Subject: Call for entries The Salt City Brew Club of Syracuse NY would like to invite everyone to participate in our 12th annual homebrew competition to be held on November 22 at the Syracuse Suds Factory. We will be accepting all recognized styles of homebrew, ciders, and meads. Ciders and meads will be judged seperately and will recieve their own best of show award. We will be accepting all sizes of bottles (7 fl. oz. min) and all colors. Like last year's competition, which drew over 300 entries, we will also be accepting PET plastic bottles sealed with "carbonators". (The carbonators will be returned with you completed evaluations.) Only two bottles per entry need to be submitted, only one bottle if you plan on entering a PET carbonator. (We suggest that there be a minimum of 20 fl. oz. per entry.) Please contact me for an entry packet and I will send one out to you ASAP. Christopher V. Sack <cvsack at ican.net> Syracuse, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:00:09 -0500 From: Paul Niebergall <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: Torrified Wheat - Malts - Protein Rests Hi All, Can somebody help me out and tell me what is Torrified Wheat? According to the guy at the home brew store where I get my supplies, torrified wheat is an Unmalted product. It is supposedly pre-gelatinized by heating. Kind of like puffed wheat. I've used small amounts of Torrified Wheat before when making Bavarian Wheat Beer and it seemed to work good. This time I am formulating a pLambic and already have 3 pounds of the stuff that is ground up and mixed with 7 pounds of ground lager malt. It would be kind of hard to separate it now. Data points on malts and protein rests: I finally have collected enough notes to make some general observations about my home brewery. I have primarily been using two different malt products over the last four years; Munton & Fisons Pale Ale Malt (M&F) and DeWolf Coysens Pale Ale Malt (DC). have brewed several batches of beer with these two malts. Some single temperature infusion, some step infusion, and even some decoction. (O.K. - so I did a lot of experimentation). Last weekend I was reviewing my tasting notes and evaluating several samples of home brew from previous brewing sessions when I came across a fairly clear trend in the data. Almost all of the brews made with M&F malt had some degree of cloudiness. The cloudiness was present even if the mash schedule I used included a protein rest. I thought M&F malts were "Highly Modified" and did not need protein rests (which in my case didn't help much anyway). Conversely, almost all of the beers made with DC malts were crystal clear. I only counted light colored beers in my evaluation. Does anyone else have any practical observations concerning the use of these two malts? Please don't blast me with a lot of scientific numbers concerning protein levels and middle molecular weight proteins, etc. (I've been following the thread on protein rests as closely as anyone else out there on the HBD) Simple observations of the clarity of your finished beer will suffice. If I get enough responses, I will post a summary later. Thanks, Paul Niebergall Kansas City pnieb at burnsmcd.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1986 00:20:52 +1000 From: Jon Bovard <j.bovard at student.qut.edu.au> Subject: Wyeast lager strains alcohol tolerance I plan to make a high alcohol D/bock in ht enear future and have been informed that some lager yeasts can conk above 8%alc/volume. Has anyone had experience with the following. Wyeast Bavarian Wyeast Munich Wyeast Danish Wyeast Czech Pilsner Wyeast Bohemian I plan to start around O.G 1.075 or so and end up around 1.020 to 1.025. Any advice?? cheers Jon Bovard Brisbane Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:08:56 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Steinbier Brewsters: As I recall, Steinbier is made by pouring wort OVER hot rocks and *not* by putting hot rocks INTO the wort, nicht wahr?? What's the difference?? = I think lots of difference will be found = as the thin film of wort pouring over the rocks will get to a much higher temperature = and the rocks will stay hotter longer as the wort is poured over them versus immersing the hot rocks in the wort, just from simple heat/mass transfer considerations. By pouring, more wort will be exposed to higher temperatures, I think. High wort temperature is the key here, as the plan is to caramelize the wort sugars and make melandoins, in situ. Perhaps with our limited volume of 5 - 10 gallons of wort, we should consider pouring cold wort over the rocks to minimize HSA. Also, I don't remember anything about the Germans putting the rocks in the refrigerator and then adding them to the secondary. = The process of pouring should form the caramel while the rocks are hot and then the later wort should dissolve it from the cooler rocks, leaving the rocks clean. As I recommended earlier, these rocks = should be in some kind of container with a lid, so that if they explode from thermal shock you won't get a facefull of sharp, searing hot rocks and boiling liquid. I suspect that no matter how choosy you are with the rocks, you will eventually get some to explosively crack - after all this is an ancient technique in = stone working to build a fire on a rock and then douse it with water to crack the rock. Please be careful. Wear safety glasses, face mask, gloves,long sleeves and long pants and whatever protective gear you can muster. Expect the best, plan for the worst. We'd like to have you be able to see the HBD and tell us about your experiments. Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:19:31 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: OG calculation In HBD 2535, I came up with a different answer from Eric Fouch and Jim Suggs for Kevin MacRae's question about dilute honey OG using slightly dirrerent methods (Eric used % of total volume, Jim and I used actual volume). I would have had the same answer if I had checked my math - the method is correct. >[(3.22 x 72) + 1.22 x 132)]/4.44 = 92, or adding back the 1, SG 1.092 ^^^^^^^ Nope, it's = 1.0885, about what Eric got. My setup was right, I musta just punched in the numbers wrong. Sorry. Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:17:43 -0500 (EST) From: Sammy Sideburns <sdarko at indiana.edu> Subject: Beer World Hey Guys, This may be a little off topic, but I remember going to a certain website called Beer World. It was really cool and it even had a history of Beer (that was very cool). Anyway, I tried to look it up today and I can't seem to find the address. Is there anyone out there who can help me? I'd really appreciate it. TIA Samuel Darko Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:36:54 -0400 (EDT) From: JUKNALIS <juknalis at ARSERRC.Gov> Subject: Philly Competition The Best of Philly Homebrew Competition will be held on November 16, 1997. Entries will be accepted between 10/27-11/11/97 at the usual locations (see website) Best of Show winner will be brewed at Manayunk Brewing Co.! Judges/stewards are encouraged to contact Betty at (brob7200 at aol.com) More info on our upcoming competition can be found at: www.netaxs.com/~shady/hops.html If you cannot access this site I can forward you the entry packet via email. cheers Joe Uknalis birman at netaxs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:40:39 -0500 (CDT) From: folsom at ix.netcom.com (Alan Folsom) Subject: War of the Worts "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - Winston Churchill (?) Never ones to learn from past mistakes, the members of the Keystone Hops homebrew club would like to announce the 3rd annual "War of the Worts" competition, to be held January 17th in Lahaska Pa. As some of you may know, a few weeks after last year's competition our host, Buckingham Mountain Brewery and Restaurant, burned down. Ed McGowan, the owner and brewer, was not able to reopen the pub until early this September. Surprisingly, he is welcoming us back again! The upstairs where the competition is held has been completely rebuilt, and is about double it's previous size, so there should be plenty of room. Restroom facilities have also been greatly expanded :-) Flyers will be available once we have drop-off sites confirmed. Last year we had 333 entries, and are hoping to do even better this year. Given enough interest, we will arrange a BJCP exam in conjunction with the contest. If you would like to take or retake the exam then, please let me know as soon as possible. For information, you may contact: Organizer: Al Folsom (215) 343-6851 folsom at ix.netcom.com Judge Coord. Nate Brese (215) 631-9674 rahneb at rohmhaas.com Thanks for your interest, and if you are in the area, please repay some of Ed McGowan's support of the homebrewing community by stopping by and trying some of his beers. Al Folsom Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:54:51 -0600 From: Darrell <darrell at montrose.net> Subject: Como se dice "Ale" Hola Hector, Yo vivia en Venezuela, y gradue del Colegio Internacional de Caracas (1978)!! I looked in my Spanish to English dictionary, and only got "cervesa inglesa". It seems to me that Polar was called a "laguer" wasn't it? You'd think there would be a corresponding word for Ale. I have some friends in Madrid, I'll ask them and see if they know. - -- Darrell Garton Montrose, CO Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:29:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Sparge time Lou writes: I too am an engineer and I think Al hit the nail here. Diffusion is the rate limiting factor. The amount and distribution of surface area at the grain/strainer interface will surely affect the concentration gradients in the liquid in the lauter tun. So maybe the issue becomes how long do I want to spend sparging? If I have 2 hours, the easy masher would be fine. If you only have 1 hour, maybe a phalse bottom would be a better choice. A slotted manifold probably falls in between. I agree wit Lou although I think that he has exaggerated the times a little. In the experiment that I did, comparing various lauter tun designs (see Great Grains SI of Zymurgy), I shot for a 1 hour sparge time in all the systems. Only the grain-bag-in-bucket (a.k.a. Miller) design took longer than 1 hour (because I could not get the runnings to flow any faster and it took 2 hours to get 7 gallons of runnings even at full throttle). So, if you have an hour to sparge, I think that all but the grain-bag-in-bucket system will work for you and give respectable efficiency. If you must sparge faster, then yes, as Lou says, a Phil's Phalse Bottom *theoretically* would give you better yield. Note we haven't even started talking about grain bed depth or tun geometry... yikes! Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running): http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:15:25 -0400 From: "Eric Fouch" <fouches at iserv.net> Subject: alpha amylase correction HBD_ Thanks to Al K for pointing out my confusion regarding my ramblings about Bruce Gills question pertaining to overnight mashes. I was working from memory (mistake #1) when I said "Alpha amylase denatures quickly at temps above 150F". All pointed out (gently) that I had my enzymes reversed. Looking back through ny referances, I found why I said that: I was thinking of Charlie P's discussion of the alpha amylase you get in the bottle in homebrew stores which is apparently of fungal origin. This stuff reportedly denatures quickly at 150 F. Unless the referance is wrong, I take this stuff to be different chemically than the a-amylase in barley malt, which is quite active from 149- 158F. Maybe someone else should answer Bruces questions from now on. I still stand by my application of the rule of mixtures!!! Eric Fouch efouch at steelcase.com fouches at iserv.net BentDick at YoctoBrewery.Kentwood Humbled Brewing Ex-Pundit Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 97 13:34:23 -0700 From: brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com Subject: Re: Iodine > Is it possible for iodophore to go bad? Can high temperature be >harmful to the stuff? I have been combating a sanitization problem. My >last 3 batches have gone bad when I bottle them. After the first batch, [snip] >to clean the bottling bucket. I am 99.9999999999% sure the bottles were >good. So that leaves the bottling bucket (done with iopdophore). Now >the pale ale has the ring of scum in the bottle. Stop me before I ruin >another batch!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wesley, I had a similar problem and discovered that my bottling bucket was the cause, not the sanitization solution. What I really mean is that either the bucket, the spigot (or spigot components) was harboring an infection in spite of my best efforts. And that was after disassembling everything and leaving it in an overnight Iodophor soak, mixed to approximately 25 ppm. I figured that in spite of my best efforts, the plastic parts in the spigot and possibly the bucket, or the washer between the bucket and the spigot, can have scratches that harbor contamination. My infections went away, and my garage now sports a really cool 7-gallon car wash bucket, complete with drainage spigot (not that I use the spigot!). Good luck! Brian PS: Everything in my case tasted and smelled fine, at each point (rackings etc) in the process, but at 5 weeks in the bottles, they'd get this really funky fruity weird smell and taste that I never was able to identify. Ever have a fruit-punch Dusseldorf Altbier before? I don't think Homer would've said "Mmmmmm .... beer!" when tasting THAT one! ....................................................................... Item Subject: WINMAIL.DAT Couldn't convert Microsoft Mail Message Data item to text at a gateway. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:45:41 -0700 From: "Ryan E. Lincoln" <housrl at wenet.net> Subject: European Breweries I am going to Europe in May and am planning on going to Belgium, Germany, Austria, Republic of Czech, and possibly a short stop in Holland. I would appreciate any info on breweries or related places of interest that are not to be missed. E-mail responses can be sent to me at: housrl at wenet.net Thanks for the tips, Ryan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:51:17 -0400 (EDT) From: AlannnnT at aol.com Subject: excellent & cheap valve for gotts I have monkeyed around with many valve setups for my gott lauter tun. The best also happens to be the most adjustable. Start with a plastic valve like the one that comes with the plastic bottling buckets. [about $2.00] They are very adjustable for flow rates. Remove the useless valve that comes with the gott cooler. Open the hole in the cooler to 7/8 ths of an inch. Use a rotary file on a drill or a hand file. Open the hole just enough to allow the valve to screw into the cooler. Use a phils phalse bottom or a cooper manifold or ez masher or an old gym sock or whatever you like connected to a plastic or copper tube [3/8" O.D.] long enough to reach well inside the back of the valve. Use a second piece of plastic tube [3/8' I.D. X 1/2" O.D.] jammed inside the valve to make the mash collecting tube fit tight. Actually, you want to fit this second piece into the valve first, before installing the valve. A little hot water makes things slide together well. The best feature of this setup when used with a phil's bottom is the stiffness of the tubings slid inside each other keeps the phalse bottom from drifting upward. Total cost about $2.25. I stir my mash well and have never knocked it apart. [yet]. The valve controls the flow from a trickle to a gush. best brewing, Alan Talman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:53:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Adam Holmes <adamholm at holly.ColoState.EDU> Subject: water salts I work at a lab in Ft. Collins, CO tthat gives me access to way too many scientific gadgets which could thoroughly complicate my brewing. One gadget is a great water filtration system that gives me access to all the deionized water I want for free. Since I don't have a water filter at home to remove chlorine, I wanted to create water for an American Pale Ale using only the deionized water. We have analytical reagent grade salts to add but they say NOT FOR FOOD USE (Dave Miller says that's OK in his book - any thoughts?). I am using an extract recipe so do I need to worry about pH as well as any target salt concentrations? I'm having trouble finding info on such pure water synthesis. Everything I read says don't use deionized water since it is cost prohibitive (not in my case) and just use it in addition to your tap water. Anybody have some water recipes? Private e-mail OK Thanks Adam Holmes Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 06:46:16 GMT From: huskers at olywa.net (Jason Henning) Subject: Sake Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager (copyright 1962)- Quite a while ago, there was gentleman from Japan that had posted some Sake instructions. At the time, I wasn't interested in this Far West beverage. But now, I'd like to give it a try. I tried 'sake' in the search engine and came up with 322 posts. I checked several post in the time frames I sorta remember them appearing but couldn't nail it down. Can someone tell me the name of said individual? Also, any information from sake brewers would be appreciated. - ----- As some remember, I posted an IPA recipe (in HBD 2454) that got all of it's bittering form late kettle additions. 20 ounces in a ten gallon batch! Three recipe notes: I cut the dry hop additions out and am glad I did. Plenty of hop flavor and aroma w/o them. I said honey when I meant honey malt. And I named it Wandering Vagabond IPA. I was inspired by Rogue Brewery's method of some-of-everything 15 ingredients beers. A rogue is a wondering vagabond. I calculated it at 65 IBUs but think it was actually a little less. It turned on awesome. The flavor was unequal to any beer I've made. The hop flavor and aroma is much more rounded and complex. the hops seemed to have meld together with each other and the beer better than traditional dry-hopping. I'm planning to brew it again next weekend. If you subscribe to the philosophy that too much of everything is just enough, you'll love this one! Cheers, Jason Henning <huskers olywa net> Bid Red Alchemy and Brewing Olympia, Washington - "It's the water" Beer is my business and I just put in 20 hours of overtime Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 06:08:31 -0400 From: nathan_l_kanous_ii at ferris.edu Subject: extract tang & HSA / Blueberry blues Michael Brown wrote that HSA in extract brews causes then to taste like butterscotch due to diacetyl. I belive that introduction of oxygen into a fermenting wort (not a boiling wort) will induce the production of diacetyl. I'm not sure exactly what flavor changes occur with HSA (speak up those that do), but I don't think they are "beneficial" like diacetyl (relatively beneficial...if you like it and it fits what you're brewing. Christopher Tkach thinks his blueberry beer is infected and asks about making it a lambic. First, just because it is infected DOES NOT make it a plambic. Secondly, blueberries are sour. If you ferment out the natural sugar, they are sour. That may be the source of your "problem". Incidentaly, adding maltodextrine to your beer at bottling will only add body, won't it? My understanding is that maltodextrine adds body, lactose will add the sweetness you desire. Nathan in Frankenmuth, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 08:37:31 -0400 From: nathan_l_kanous_ii at ferris.edu Subject: Lagering temps I'm getting my stuff together (slowly) to try a couple of lagers this winter. I have a "dormitory" size fridge that I can use to control fermentation temps or to lager in. I put my temperature controller on last night and set it for 34 deg F. When I woke up the thermometer read 36 deg F. I'm sure that this is as low as it will go. I reset the thermostat so I wouldn't leave it running constantly at such low temps. I had a case of beer in the fridge for thermal mass. My question is, is 36 to 38 deg F adequate for lagering? I suppose that it's better than not being able to do it at all, eh? Also, I've read some past postings that seemed to imply that you could lager at 45 deg F for 3 to 4 weeks, and successively down to recommendations of 7 to 8 weeks at 32 degF. What is going on here? Can you lager faster at higher temps? Doesn't make sense to me. TIA Nathan in Frankenmuth, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 08:40:26 -0400 From: nathan_l_kanous_ii at ferris.edu Subject: Old yeast Greetings to the collective! I have a packet of Wyeast Czech pilsner yeast that I picked up quite a while ago. I'm just getting things together to begin some lager beers (note my previous post). This yeast packet is AT LEAST 2 years old. My impression is that this should still be a viable culture. It's been stored in the refrigerator since I bought it. Will it just start more slowly because of age, or should I pitch it (in the garbage, not my wort) and buy a new culture? TIA Nathan in Frankenmuth, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 08:23:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: HSA<>"butterscotch" Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... In HBD 2536, Michel J. Brown <homemade at spiritone.net> says: "HSA afaik tastes like butterscotch (diacetyl?)" Diacetyl does indeed taste like butterscotch; however, taste *normally* attributed to HSA include such luminaries as "wet cardboard" or "sherry-like", the latter usually consigned to indicate oxidation during and post-ferment. Most "tangs" encountered in beers not supposed to demonstrate such flavor notes by this brewer have had to do with one of two things: overzealous application of brewing salts or infection. My $0.02... See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org Harvest THESE: rhundt at fcc.gov jQuello at fcc.gov sness at fcc.gov rchong at fcc.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:43:30 +0000 From: "Forrest Duddles" <fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu> Subject: GFCI's Hi folks, I'm afraid I started the GFCI confusion and I'm sorry to continue an off-topic thread. I got a couple of emails concerning this one and realize that I should have been more explicit in my explanation of what GFCI's do. Nathan's description below is absolutely correct. >> Forrest Duddles said: >>"Your GFCI is made to trip whenever it detects a flow of current to >>ground from either the hot or neutral conductor. It will also trip >>if the neutral is opened." >This is simply not the case. The GFCI continually monitors the >current in the "hot" and "common" conductors (the normal current >carrying wires). If the amount headed out to the device differs from >the amount coming back by more than 5 milliamps, the GFCI interrupts >the electric power by "tripping". I believe more must be said about the following. >It is this that saves you from >getting fried in the tub, because if power is headed out through the >hot lead and back through you, the tub, and the pipes, not the >ground, an imbalance will occur and off it goes. Of course current >down the ground also would mean an imbalance and cause it to trip. >This is why in houses with old groundless wiring systems, outlet >changes must be to GFCI outlets and not regular ones. > >Nate Sornborger My original description was kept brief and general and I'll stand by its accuracy. Nathan correctly described what the GFCI innards do but I must disagree with his description of ground. The ground in household electrical systems is commonly either attached to a metal water pipe that is in direct earth contact or attached to a ground rod driven into the earth. Using the bathtub example above, 5 milliamps of current must flow in order to trip the GFCI. There must be a complete electrical path before current will flow. The current path in the bathtub example flows to (earth)ground through the victim, water pipes and tub. If you grab a hot wire while standing on a dry floor and get a shock, you were in the electrical path via the dry floor and whatever else stood between you and (earth)ground. My original description of GFCI's stated that they trip when a current flows from either the hot or neutral conductor to ground. In each case described above, current flows between a condutor and (earth)ground. I have seen neutral conductors with voltages as high as 40 volts above ground and open neutrals that carry full line voltage so a neutral-to-(earth)ground current flow can happen just as easily as hot-to-(earth)ground. It is important to realize that a GFCI will *not* trip if you get between hot and neutral conductors and less than 5 milliamps flows to (earth)ground. Though an unlikely scenario, you would be just as dead. My original post was in reply to a question of why a GFCI would trip when a JCI temperature controller was used with a refrigerator. That refrigerator may or may not have had a ground conductor in its cord. The polarity may have been reversed leaving the chassis hot. The list could go on and on. I suspected that either the controller was mis-wired or that the controller probe or case was acting as a ground conductor which would trip the GFCI if >5 milliamps current flowed from either conductor through it. I am, once again truly sorry for any confusion caused by this and I believe Nathan, myself and others who have emailed me are all in agreement about how GFCI's work. I will be more careful in my wording in the future. Let's please take any further discussion to email. Hope this helps! Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 08:55:01 -0500 From: Trent Neutgens <tneutgen at isd.net> Subject: IPA Recipe Request / Water Analysis Help Hello All, I have just two quick questions for the minds of the HBD. First, Could anyone share with me their favorite IPA all-grain 5 gallon recipe. This will be my first all-grain and I am hoping to find a single infusion mash for simpliciy reasons. I will be serving this beer to a group of friends in our own little beer-off which includes home brews and purchased beers. I need a recipe that will stand out above all the rest. Secondly, I just got a water analysis from my city people and I would like to know what you all think of it. What would you do if this was your beer and you had to brew with it. I've also got a Water Spring near by where I could get my brewing water. After looking at my water Analysis, would you say thats the way to go instead? Personal replies would probably be best for the sake of bandwidth. Total Hardness 29 gpg Flouride 1mg/l Total Iron .15 mg/l Manganese .03 mg/l Chloride 15.0 mg/l Silica Less Than 2.0 mg/l Nitrate less than 1.0 mg/l Sodium 31.5 mg/l Magnesium 54.0 mg/l Calcium 108.0 mg/l Alkalinity 302.0 mg/l as CaC03 Total Dissolved Solids 511 mg/l pH 7.9 Silicon Less than 1 mg/l BIG TIA, Mmmmmm, CHUBBY Beer!! Trent Neutgens Chaska, MN tneutgen at isd.net *********************************************************** *******Chaska Homebrewers United By Beer Yearnings***** *********************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 10:26:45 -0400 From: EFOUCH at steelcase.com Subject: Priming with Corn Syrup Date: Tuesday, 21 October 1997 10:24am ET To: Sendout From: Eric.Fouch at STC001 Subject: Priming with Corn Syrup HBD- Mike Fay is curious about his buddies priming activities regarding corn syrup. It sounds like your friend did the solids calculations I was to lazy to do when I realized I had no priming sugar on priming day. I to reached for the corn syrup and only used 1 cup. The resultant chocolate porter wound up undercarbonated for my tastes, but I tell my non-brewing buddies (and even some of my brewing buddies) that low carbonation is stylistically correct for a chocolate porter. I think his beer will be fine, at least not overcarbonated. I still haven't bothered to try to figure out the sugar content of one cup of corn syrup. It's too bad the corn syrup I used didn't say it had preservatives in it, or I would have thought to use brown sugar and gotten more carbonation. Anybody wanna hear my theories on an ethanol fuel based us economy and the subsequent evisceration of the oil import/export Fleecing of America? Didn't think so Eric Fouch efouch at steelcase.com "Solving the World's Problems with Glib One-liners" (Me, not Steelcase. They don't necessarily hold all my opinions- just the politically correct, warm and fuzzy ones) Kent Dick Bent Wood BrewoYoctory Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Oct 97 10:54:10 From: Brian Myers <Brian_Myers at notes.seagate.com> Subject: Rehydrating dry yeast - a momily? I usually brew 10 gallons at a time, which makes it easy to perform side-by-side experiments with two 5 gallon batches. I have recently compared rehydrating dry yeast to just dumping it in the wort, and it is my opinion that the benefit of rehydration, if any, is extremely small. I have performed this experiment twice, and both times I saw no discernable difference in the onset time or character of the fermentation. If anyone else has performed similar experiments, I'd be interested to hear your results; I realize this is a small sample size. Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Oct 1997 09:35:58 -0600 From: "Andrew Avis" <Andrew.Avis.0519423 at nt.com> Subject: Long boil / Preserving Wort Subject: Time: 9:58 = AM OFFICE MEMO Long boil / Preserving Wort Date: = 10/21/97 Gentlemen: I just got The Brewmaster's Bible out of the library - it's very new = (1997), but really focuses on extract brewing. Some interesting recipes, = if you're an extract brewer. I did come across something that I had = never read before: the author claims that a long boil (2-3 hours) will = cause some hot break proteins to re-disolve into the wort, producing a = velvety smooth beer with tons of body. Can anyone verify this? Are = there other problems (such as haze) with this technique? I'm planning a = Festbock similar to Holsten's, which is dark and very rich and creamy, = and I would like to try an extended boil to increase colour and body. Randy Kinsman <kinsman at glinx.com> asks about preserving unfermented wort = to sell retail. Randy, there is a company (Spagnols?) out of Vancouver = doing exactly this, selling 15L of hopped all-grain wort that you add 8 L = of water to, pitch yeast, and then stand back. I believe the brand is = called Brew House, and it is packed in a thick plastic bag, housed in a = large box, exactly like a better wine kit. You might give them a call to = see how they manage the process. Drew Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:41:29 +0100 From: "Jens P.Maudal" <jensmaudal at bu.telia.no> Subject: Reusing yeast I have always been under the impression that using the same yeast strain over and over again would be no problem, just skim the top off, or save some slurry from the last brew. I thougt to myself this is ok, I will be able to shrink my yeast budget considrebly this way with only a small effort in return. I have now realised it is not as simple as that. My last brews have been tipped down the toilet, I have noticed lately that my favorite receipes hasn't quite tasted the same, on reflection after two or three reuses of the same yeast I did notice a slight difference in caracter, but I didn't take much notice at the time. Does this mean I have to actually order fresh yeast after only a few pitches or if I feel very energetic learn the art of yeast propagation, are these the only alternatives?? Greatful for your reply. - -- - jens maudal Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:31:35 -0400 From: Greg_Young at saunderscollege.com (Greg Young) Subject: Yield pts of fruit Greetings, all. Does anyone know of a resource or listing that contains the yield pts (or estimates) for various types of fruit? I'm sure we could all use such information for our recipe calculations (well, at least all us 'science guys,' but let's not go there....) Thanks. Greg Young G.Young's Basement Brewery greg_young at saunderscollege.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:13:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Tang Dr. Michel writes: >Dave, you may be correct in *one* instance of what causes malt extract >`tang'. HSA afaik tastes like butterscotch (diacetyl?) and is probably not I believe that HSA and diacetyl (yes, butterscotch or buttery) are unrelated. To my senses, HSA (hot side *aeration*, Dave) results in sherrylike aromas and flavours and premature staling (papery, wet cardboard). >responsible for the majority flavor of the `tang'. I liken the flavor to >coffee, that is instant coffee tastes pretty bad, and instant wort is >pretty much the same thing IMHO. Full mash brewing tastes better IMHO due >to the use of primordial ingredients, just like whole bean fresh ground >coffee tastes better than instant. In the middle we have the partial A skilled extract brewer can compete with all-grain brewers any day. If he/she uses *fresh* *100%-malt* extract, adds crystal malts and dark malts, and ads their own bittering, flavouring and aroma hops. The reason that so many awards are won by all-grain beers is not (IMO) necessarily because all-grain is better, but rather because the majority of experienced homebrewers simply have moved to all-grain. If a homebrewer began as an all-grain brewer and then moved to extract after two years, I would be willing to bet that the quality would continue to improve with experience. I would also be willing to bet that those early all-grain batches would not be competition contenders whereas someone who has been brewing several years and brewed an extract batch (taking it seriously, not a throwaway batch or "something for my cousins who don't like good beer"), could win in just about any category. I think the keys (highlighted above) are the extract has to be *fresh* and it has to be *100% malt*. Sure, if you take a two-year-old can of hopped extract off the shelf mix it with a gallon of hot water, top up with unboiled tapwater and sprinkle some nameless dry yeast on top, you'll get crap. Back when I used to own my HB supply shop, I used to brew extract all the time. I formulated recipes for my shop and made pre-packaged (pre-measured crystal/dark malts, bittering, flavouring and aroma hops along with a 6# bag of extract, quality dry yeast and 1/2 cup corn sugar) kits. These kits were based upon recipes that I brewed, that *won* homebrew competitions (big competitions too, like the Dixie Cup and the AHA 1st round). To say you have to brew all-grain to make good beer is simply *wrong*! Personally, I believe that "extract tang" is due to brewing with old or mistreated extract. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running): http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ P.S. I feel it's very bad to propagate these "extract makes bad beer" and "extract brewers are inferior" fallacies. Go and pull out the last dozen or two issues of Zymurgy. Find the column where they get brewers to brew from extract. It cracks me up. Invariably, somewhere in the first paragraph, the author says "...it's been years since I've brewed an extract batch..." or "...although I've been brewing all-grain for two years and seven months..." They have to cover their butts... as if it's some evil secret that they would dare to brew from extract... Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:28:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: bottled water Jim asks about distilled water. There's nothing wrong with distilled water for extract brewing, but a lack of calcium in all-grain brewing with distilled water can lead to oxalate haze, poor yeast flocculation, poor extraction from prematurely denaturing enzymes, and probably a few other things I can't recall off the top of my head. You need calcium to brew all-grain. Jim also writes: >Bottled water offers a source of clean, sanitary, good tasting, and >ready to use (no chlorine) brewing water. Do not assume that bottled water *mineral* or *distilled* is sanitary. There is no guarantee that it doesn't contain lots of wild yeast, moulds and benign bacteria. It's sanitary enough to drink, but not sanitary enough for modern beer production unless you boil it first (or boil *all* the wort made with it). Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running): http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:41:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Whole batch decoction Fred suggests (for an overnight masher): >How about a "Whole Batch Decoction" as an idea? After your mash is >fully converted, why not bring the whole mash up to a brief boil before >retiring for the night. The potential advantages might be: It could work, but it could also give you starch in your beer. The reason that in traditional decoction you only boil the *liquid* part for the final decoction is because if you released any starch during the mashout decoction, there would be no enzymes to convert it to sugars/dextrins. I'd recommend against it. Al. (since the HBD is really backed-up, let's limit our quoting and hold off on non-brewing related posts for a while) Return to table of contents
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