---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Hops Calculation (Jeffrey_Tonole)
  Udder Clean, WST, lag period, High pH starters (AllDey)
  Cabbage/vegetable smell in fermenter? (Ian Smith)
  Re: Yeast Starter (Anthony Capocelli)
  Dual-mode temp controllers ("Forrest Duddles")
  re: Kegs, Oxygen, etc.. ("Michel J. Brown")
  homegrown hops ("Kevin F. Schramer")
  Bubble-gum flavors ("Rick Snide")
  Entry Deadline is Drawing Near (RBoland)
  lager yeast priming (Eric Pendergrass)
  Linseed Beer,Too much gelatin, Pump placement,Shocking yeast,FWH ("David R. Burley")
  Subject: Freezer Temperature Controllers (Michael W Bardallis)
  Subject: Brewing Flax? (Michael W Bardallis)
  HBD Donations (Jim Anderson)
  Donations stuff... (Some Guy)
  Spots (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Bad Beer  (update) (Richard Soennichsen)
  Sanitary Tubing (Tom Clark)
  RE: SG:Volume relationship ("Michael E. Dingas")
  Grain storage, Belgian yeast, my sig line. ("Raymond Estrella")
  Cyser Fermenation/100% Apple Cider?( Greg Mueller) (GMuel38838)
  Brass ball valve (Richard Johnson)
  Cooking Pumpkins(small??), All grain vs Extract (Jim Bentson)
  Lefebvre Brussels White (KennyEddy)
  brewing-related software?  ... plus 5L mini-kegs comments (Jim Graham)
  Re: Wyeast Lager strains and higher fermentation temps ("Charles L. Ehlers")
  Pectin Enzyme (Pete and Kris Stelter)
  Yeast (Tom Clark)
  homebrew cooking - stone-ground mustard (smurman)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 19:22:15 -0800
From: Jeffrey_Tonole at americancentury.com
Subject: Hops Calculation


WARNING:  Potentially stupid question ahead...

I'm trying to convert an extract recipe to all-grain,
and I'm kind of hung up on the hops part. Actually,
it's a matter of gauging the amount of hops to use for
a full-volume boil compared to a concentrated boil.

Suppose I'm boiling 2.5 gallons of concentrated wort,
which will be added to 2.5 gallons of water in the
fermenter. Based on the specific gravity and boiling
time of the concentrated wort -- and the amount of
hops -- I can calculate (using Tinseth's formula)
the BUs for the 2.5 gallons in the brewpot.

Now, once I top this off with another 2.5 gallons of
water, how do I calculate the BUs of the entire 5
gallons? Is it really as simple as dividing by 2? Or
is there some non-linear scale of BUs as you
dilute your wort?

(Once I have the BUs for this 5-gallon batch, I can
use Tinseth's formula in reverse to calculate the
amount of hops for a 5-gallon batch with a full-
volume boil.)

Private e-mail responses are fine; I can post a
summary in the unlikely event there are others
interested in this topic. Thanks in advance!

jeff tonole
SlothBrew
Menlo Park, CA
NB = 0, IQ = 0   :(



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 00:07:36 -0500 (EST)
From: AllDey at aol.com
Subject: Udder Clean, WST, lag period, High pH starters

I received several responses to my query regarding using a product called
Udder Clean as an inexpensive Iodophor substitute.  Most warned that these
products tend to have lanolin and/or other products to soothe sore teats and
would hence not be something desirable in a brew.  I checked the label and
yup, lanolin.  There were no other dairy sanitation products available at
that particular store except straight iodine (or at least highly concentrated
iodine).  I did find an inexpensive phosphoric acid rinse that I think will
work well as a rinse in my converted kegs.

The recent WST thread prompted me to try one with my latest batch.  The
baby-food jar full of wort was still malty and tasty after 4 days at 80F - so
I guess I get an "A".  I found that a small coffee can inside a larger coffee
can works well. Just put the baby food jar or whatever small vessel you use
inside the small can and water and aquarium heater in the large can.

All this recent talk about lag periods got me thinking we need a common
language to define the end of the lag period.  I bet different folks have
different conceptions/misconceptions. Is it the point where the first faint
streaks of surface foam are evident?  A specific bubbling rate?  Solid foam
cover? Does it need to be defined differently for lagers vs ales?  Comments? 

I'm also interested in hearing some more discussion RE: high pH starters.
 I've suspected my starters as the source of a couple lacto infections but
couldn't put my finger on a specific break in sterile technique.  My water pH
is 8.0 with a hardness of 218 ppm as CaCO3.  Would the high pH favor
infection simply because the yeast are at a disadvantage due to suboptimal
conditions? The bacteria "outgrow" the yeast?  This should be evident in
starter performance - though almost all starters I've seen don't ever do much
exciting. A few bubbles, cloudy, sediment on the flask bottom.  No rocky
tops.

Paul
Cheyenne, WY    

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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 09:21:01 -0700 (MST)
From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com>
Subject: Cabbage/vegetable smell in fermenter?

I have just made an IPA/ESB as follows:

Hugh Baird 2 row
Chinook bittering hops
EKG flavoring hops

After counter flow chilling to 70 F I noticed a vegetable or cabbage like 
smell eminating from the fresh wort in the carboy. Does anyone know what 
this is? IMBR?

Cheers
Ian Smith
isrs at rela.uucp.netcom.com



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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 02:50:03 -0800
From: Anthony Capocelli <acapocelli at pol.net>
Subject: Re: Yeast Starter

I smacked a pack of Wyeast Bohemian a few days ago and put it in a 45 -
46 F attic and it was splitting it's seams within 24 hours so I went
ahead a did a quart starter at the same temperature.

Question to all: Should I allow my wort to chill to that temp (45 - 46F)
before pitching the starter or is it alright to pitch around 60 F after
force chilling and then placing the fermenter in 46F ???

Happy brewing !

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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 07:56:37 +0000
From: "Forrest Duddles" <duddles at Imbecile.kzoo.edu>
Subject: Dual-mode temp controllers

Hi folks,

 In HBD 2558 Michael Willits asks if temperature controllers are 
available that will automatically heat or cool as needed to maintain 
temperature in a chest freezer. 

 There are several commercial controllers that would be suitable for 
this purpose. There are some factors consider before using one 
however. A two-stage control with two SPDT relays or switches in a 
package similar to the Johnson A19 remote bulb controller is a common 
form. The relay or switch outputs may be wired for two stages of 
heating, two stages of cooling, or heating and cooling.

 This type of controller tends to be pricey and lower cost units 
generally have a fixed differential (deadband) between stages. More 
expensive (and adjustable) units are often electronic with digital 
displays. 
 
 The major problem one is likely to encounter when using a heat-cool
controller is interaction between modes. To illustrate this consider 
a chest freezer with the compressor running and the temperature 
dropping to setpoint. The compressor shuts off when setpoint is 
reached but the temperature continues to drop as the refrigerant 
pressures equalize in the system and the evaporator surfaces rise to 
the temperature of the cabinet interior. This "flywheel effect" can 
cause the freezer temperature to overshoot below the heating setpoint 
and energize the heating element. This sets up a classic example of 
short-cycling and can quickly destroy a compressor.

 Careful setup is essential to prevent this. A wider deadband is 
often required than is desireable and the temperature in the freezer 
may vary. Commercial and laboratory equipment that maintain precise 
temperatures commonly use sophisticated controllers and run the 
refrigeration and heating units continuously, modulating the heating 
source to achieve setpoint.

 The most cost-effective and configurable controller to use for 
brewing may be a design based on the Radio Shack thermometer module. 
Greg Walz's design on the "Brewery" web site technical library should 
work. I built one of these a couple of years ago (for use as a 
waterbed heater controller :^) and it works great. A quick look at 
the schematic suggests that it might easily be used for heat-cool if 
the mode switch is removed and a second relay and transistor are 
added.

 The circuit board in my Ranco digital controller (ETC-111000) is 
clearly marked for an additional relay and driver components. I 
suspect that they offer it in a multi-stage model but I haven't been 
able to get any info on it. I'll post to the group if I find any 
details.

Hope this helps!

Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo


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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 02:58:22 -0800
From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com>
Subject: re: Kegs, Oxygen, etc..

>Though it's not proven, Aluminum *has* been implicated in Alzheimers.

Please *stop* spreading this unfortunate psuedoscientific mumbo-jumbo! This
"research" was found to be one persons anecdotal quip to the synopsis of an
ill fated and and refutable experiment where Aluminum ions where allegedly
discovered in the substantia nigra of the human brain of Alzheimers
victims. Real researchers have discovered that this is simply not true.
Please stop spreading this disinformation, ok?

			    Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C.
        		              homemade at spiritone.com 
	           http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html
	               "Big Man don't drink no stinking light beer!"
                           "Big Man drink beer what got BIG TASTE!"
                                       Big Man Brewing (R) 1996

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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 07:49:46 -0800
From: "Kevin F. Schramer" <humulus at megsinet.net>
Subject: homegrown hops

just like to comment on using homegrown hops....
i recall this past summer someone on the digest said homegrown
hops should just be grown as lawn ornaments and not used in
homebrew...
i am now proudly serving up an IPA brewed exclusively
with homegrown hops and IMHO it is delicious.  The ale features
mainly chinook (my biggest crop) and some cascade...sure i don't
know the exact ibu....sure it tastes a little different than
commercially grown....but it tastes nice and bitter and seems to
have its own character (probably cause they're grown in the Chicago
area)...if you arent growing hops i encourage you to try it...it's
a fun side hobby that doesnt take a lot of time and the payoff is great
(altho it takes acouple  years)....
back to the taps
kevinFschramer
humulus at megsinet.net

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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 10:31:03 -0500
From: "Rick Snide" <Rick at RevolutionSoftware.com>
Subject: Bubble-gum flavors

Any suggestions on what causes a bubble gum aroma and flavor to a beer?  =
I have had good success with a particular IPA (extract) brew but 2 out =
of 8 have had this obnoxious scent & flavor.  Is this a known problem =
that is correctable?



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 10:35:24 -0500 (EST)
From: RBoland at aol.com
Subject: Entry Deadline is Drawing Near

Calling All Brewers, Judges, & Stewards!

The St. Louis Brews are holding their seventh annual Happy Holiday Homebrew
Competition on Friday, December 12 and Saturday, December 13, 1997.  The
competition is sanctioned by the AHA, registered with the BJCP, and part of
the Midwest Homebrewer of the Year program.

We invite all homebrewers to submit their beers and meads for evaluation by
panels of experienced judges.  Our primary objective is to provide accurate,
complete, and useful feedback to the brewer.  AHA style guidelines will be
used with the addition of a Christmas Brau category with two subcategories.

We also invite all BJCP registered judges and those interested in stewarding
to assist us in evaluating the beers submitted.  Limited accommodations in
Brews members homes are available; you can indicate your need on the
Judge/Steward registration form.

Our secondary objective is to have fun, and a good time will be had by all!
 All judges, stewards, and spouses are invited to attend our Saturday holiday
banquet and party as our guests.  

Beers will be accepted by mail between November 20 and December 6.  Please
visit our web site, www.stlbrews.org, for competition information and on-line
registration or contact demmertp at thunder.safb.af.mil.


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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 11:07:31 -0600
From: Eric Pendergrass <eap at netdoor.com>
Subject: lager yeast priming

Thanks to everyone who responded a couple of weeks ago to my question
about secondary transfer.

The same batch I wrote about then, a Bohemian Pilsner, is now in the
secondary after 2 weeks of fermentation at 46F.  After airlock activity
leveled off I transferred to glass and am now lagering at 37F.  My OG
was 1.040, and is now about 1.010.  My questions are these:  will the
yeast (Wyeast Czech Pils) be sufficiently viable after 2-3 weeks of
lagering at this temp to prime bottles?  Would it be safer to just
assume not and pitch more yeast at bottling time, or am I just
worrying?  At what temperature should I prime?

- --
 -Eric Pendergrass



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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 12:17:13 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Linseed Beer,Too much gelatin, Pump placement,Shocking yeast,FWH

Brewsters,

Steve McKeon asks about using flax seed for brewing. Flax seed is also
known as "linseed" and linseed oil (aka a drying oil used in making
oil-based paints) is made from it . Not too tasty IMHO.  In any event, th=
e
high oil content of this seed as you described it would probably kill any=

head on the beer even if you like the taste.
- ----------------------------------
Reader asks how to use gelatin and asks if there is such a thing as too
much gelatin.  In short, yes, too much gelatin is a bad thing. 1) gelatin=

is a protein and reacts with tannins from the hops as well as flocculatin=
g
yeast. This removes hop bitterness. 2) If way too much gelatin is added i=
t
will leave you with a cloudy beer.

Proper way to use it, as it depends on the beer and the hop rate, etc., i=
s
to take several samples of the beer treat it with gelatin at various leve=
ls
and as with all clarifiers, check the samples in 24 hours and use the
minimum amount that clarifies the beer.
- -----------------------------------
Ted Hull gives an excellent dissertation on pump cavitation and recommend=
s
placing the pump between the boiler and the chiller to avoid cavitation
caused by frictional losses in the chiller.

A couple of questions come to mind.  Doesn't the high temperature of the
water on the boiler side cause cavitation moreso than the cooler side due=

to the much higher vapor pressure of the hot water?  Also wouldn't the
materials of construction  of the pump be happier at the cooler
temperatures?  If I had a choice, I'd think the cooler the better.
- -----------------------------------
Charlie writes that he worries that putting the starter in the =

refrigerator will shock the yeast. =


Of course, that is the whole point.  They settle out that way and you can=

pour off the starter beer before you pitch the yeast into the warmer main=

wort and they take off.  I do this periodically when timing is a problem
with no ill effects.

Don't confuse this with rapidly chilling a fermenting wort and keeping it=

there.  Noonan say that the minimum temperature drop per day is 5F (3C) t=
o
not shock the yeast so that they will keep fermenting at the lowered
temperature.
- ------------------------------------
I got several private e-mails asking how I do FWH (first wort hopping)
based on my comments about why I think it works.  I put the first clarifi=
ed
runnings into the boiler and add all the bittering hops and begin to boil=
,
adding the runnings and spargings as they become available.  After the la=
st
spargings are in, I boil for an hour.
- ------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 12:20:42 EST
From: dbgrowler at juno.com (Michael W Bardallis)
Subject: Subject: Freezer Temperature Controllers

Michael Willits wrote:

 I'm trying to find information about temperature controllers for a chest

freezer.  I'm looking for a controller that will control a cooling source
and a 
heating source at the same time.  I have searched previous digests and it
seems 
that the commercially available controllers will control either cooling
or 
heating (or just cooling), but not both.  I have also found plans for
building 
a suitable controller, but if there is a controller available pre-built,
I 
would rather go that route.  Thanks in advance for any help.

Michael Willits
Raleigh, North Carolina
michael.willits at cp.novartis.com 

Mike:

I'm using an Omega CN9000A series temperature controller that I scavenged
from a piece of medical equipment. It's double turbo overkill for my
fridge, but the price was right. It supports heating/cooling,
proportional control F/C, and a host of other functions. Output options
include 5VDC drive for ssr, 1A triac, & relay contacts mix&match. It may
be a bit pricey, though.... 
Omega      Sales (800) 826-6342  Engineering   (800) 872-9436

Temperateness sure beats temperance!

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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 12:20:42 EST
From: dbgrowler at juno.com (Michael W Bardallis)
Subject: Subject: Brewing Flax?

Steve McKeon asks,

Recently, I have been thinking about brewing with flax.  For those of you
that don't know what flax is, it's a small, dark, shiny grain.  Kind-of
looks like a bug if you ask me.  I have acquired a spec sheet from a
company
that sells it and it says that the seed contains 43% oils (dry basis),
40%
protein and about 11% moisture.  It doesn't tell me about the amount of
starch, does anyone know?  Is there anything to convert?  Has anyone
tried
brewing with flax as an adjunct?  Does it contribute anything?  Would the
oils destroy my head retention?  I can't seem to find any article about
it
and believe me I've looked.  Thanks in advance to anyone who can answer
these questions.

Steve,

The lack of starch means you could only use the flax as a minor adjunct,
not a source of extract. Typically, grains with as little as 5% oils are
considered to be too oily for brewing. You, however, are a homebrewer,
and can experiment with whatever moves you (ain't it great?). Hopefully,
the bulk of the oils will separate and form a slick on top of your
primary ferment, which you could then siphon your beer out from under.
Charlie P's "Slanting Annie's Chocolate Porter" uses this technique to
separate the cocoa butter. Have fun!

Mike

"How I wish I was in Sherbrooke, now!"

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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 10:38:50 -0800
From: Jim Anderson <jander at xmission.com>
Subject: HBD Donations

Mike Spinelli wrote in HBD 2558:

> I for one can't think of a more worthy cause than the perpetuation
> of the HBD.   Having had the luxury of reading it almost daily for the
> last 3+ years  without having to pay a single cent, I think it's time
> to give back something..

I've been thinking of posting on this topic for several days now, but
I'd already endangered my lurker status a couple of weeks ago.  Oh well.

My personal impression of Pat is that he's much too reserved (please
limit laughs and guffaws to a maximum duration of 5 mins.) to make a big
deal out of requesting donations.  I figure him to throw it out there
just once and then let the chips fall where they may.  He won't beg.

I look at it this way: I've subscribed to several brewing magazines and
have invested at least a coupla hundred bucks in a brewing library.  In
my two short years of brewing, though, my single best source of
information has been right here in HBD.  What's it worth?  Decide that
for yourself.  For me, my paltry donation borders on an insult.  (Pat,
there's something to be learned here: try to time this type of thing so
that it doesn't conflict with Christmas shopping! <g>)

Let's none of us forget the close call we had with the AOB circle-jerk
either -- we came mighty close to losing the HBD altogether.

ESPECIALLY my fellow lurkers: C'mon, please, stop and think how valuable
this resource really is to you.  Email Pat at pbabcock at oeonline.com and
offer your help.  This ain't for HIM -- this is for all of us!

  - Jim



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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 16:03:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Donations stuff...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

I just wanted to pop a note off thanking those who are rushing to 
support the HBD, and those writing to urge others on. You're right: I 
feel a bit uncomfortable asking for donations, and will generally make 
only one appeal. 

And, I also apologize for the timing of the request.  Don't feel bad if
the holiday crunch prevents you from donating if donating is what you 
wish to do. The only reason for the timing is that, generally, the 
holiday season is the only one during which I am able to physically 
access the server.

Be sure to visit the Home Brew Digest web site to see who's donating 
(pick Donors from the menu) and see where we stand in our accounting for 
this upgrade (pick Accountability). 

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brewing Page              http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
Harvest THESE: president at whitehouse.gov vice.president at whitehouse.gov 
               consumerline at ftc.gov 



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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 16:43:53 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: Spots

No matter how I try, I have never been able to clean my racking hose and
dry it without seeing spots inside.  
I tried soaking in TSP, running hot water through after, and still I see
spots when the hose is finally dry.
Haven't had any infection problems yet, but this has always bothered me.
I think I finally have come upon a solution.

I am currently taking a wine class from a retired chemist/winemaker.
During the class I just happened to ask him
about this problem and he said oh - just use a small amount of alchhol
after cleaning the hose and shake to distribute, then
drain.

Wow! Total success.  The hose dries in a few seconds with no water
droplets and no stains.

Happy Brewing

Ron 

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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 13:31:59 -0800
From: Richard Soennichsen <richas at pacbell.net>
Subject: Bad Beer  (update)

Thanks to all who took an interest in my plight.
	Well I have brewed aaaggggggaaaiiiiinnnnn  in another atempt at a non
nasty brew.  Here are the changes made during this session:

New equipment:

All tubing
racking cane
bottler
DME for starter

New procedure:
Cleaned and boiled ball valve (off kettle)
used iodophor exclusively w/no rinse
switched yeasts (W-1056 to Caligornia Lager)(ale to steam!)
checked mash ph (5.2-5.6)
did not use not not-so-pretty slotted tube in lauter tun (used clean
plastic false bottom)
Decanted wort off yeast starter.
Sanitized wort chiller BEFORE boiling for 10
made sure sparge temp was at or below 168
sparged a little faster
no hopping at 0 min(my own paranoia)
wrapped primary in wet towwel to drop temp a degree or two


In addition to these changes I have samples in sterile containers from:

sterter wort sans-yeast
cooled yeast-less wort
inoculated wort

I am watching these and will taste at a later date looking for infection.


Cheers

Rich

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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 21:51:53 -0500
From: Tom Clark <rtclark at eurekanet.com>
Subject: Sanitary Tubing

An idea I came up with perhaps others can use....(they may already)

When not using my various pieces of vinyl tubing, I simply draw a bit of 
sanitizing solution through the tubing then join both ends with a short 
piece of rigid tubing (a piece of old racking cane).   Next time I need 
to use it, it should be relatively free of any unwanted microbes.

Tom


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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 21:44:35 -0500
From: "Michael E. Dingas" <dingasm at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: SG:Volume relationship

Jeffrey M. Kenton  asked about the change in volume due
to boil and change in SG due to boiling. Here is a table from The New =
Complete Joy Of Homebrewing (page 381) for adjusting a 5 gallon batch..

For S.G. 1.035 - 1.048
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
05% ( .25) More water decreases SG by .001
15% ( .75) More water decreases SG by .005
30% (1.5 ) More water decreases SG by .010
50% ( 2.5) More water decreases SG by .016

For S.G. 1.048 - 1.053
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
05% ( .25 ) More water decreases SG by .002
10% ( .50 ) More water decreases SG by .003-4
25% (1.25) More water decreases SG by .010
30% (1.5  ) More water decreases SG by .011
50% ( 2.5 ) More water decreases SG by .017

For S.G. 1.055 - 1.060
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
05% ( .25 ) More water decreases SG by .002
10% ( .50 ) More water decreases SG by .005
25% (1.25) More water decreases SG by .012
30% (1.5  ) More water decreases SG by .014
50% ( 2.5 ) More water decreases SG by .018

As stated in the book, "The rate of dilution and the change in specific =
gravity are not the same for various densities."

Mike

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Date: Sun, 16 Nov 97 13:46:45 UT
From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella at classic.msn.com>
Subject: Grain storage, Belgian yeast, my sig line.

  Hello to all, 
Janssen Skylard asks,

>I'm an extract brewer and use specialty grains often.  I now have a good
>supply of extra grains.  I store them in individual ziploc bags and then 
>into one large ziploc kept at room temp. in the closet. Is there a better 
>way to store them? How long will they safely keep before I have to trash 
them?

 I just checked, and I have 13 types of specialty grains, and 6 kinds of
base malts. The base malts I keep in 6 gallon plastic pails, with air-tight
lids. The specialty grains I keep in either 1 gallon distilled water jugs, 
which
hold 4 pounds, or the wide mouth moisture proof jugs that clumping cat litter
comes in.  They hold 10 - 12 pounds. (Save the cracks about cat crap please)
Using jugs makes it a little easier to measure out, and see what you have, 
or need. Grain that is kept dry should keep over a year, although I have no
hard data on extract potential loss with aging.  Anybody?

 Jeremy says,
>I am preparing to brew my first Belgian triple, and I would like some
>advice on what yeast to use. I have been considering just breaking down 
>and using one of the Belgian strains from wyeast (Either Belgian ale (1214) 
>or Belgian Abby II (1762)) Can anyone give me an idea as to which strain 
>gives a better flavor profile. 
 
  I do not know about 1214, but I used 1762 in three brews last year. (Triple, 

Dubbel, single) I was very happy with the results. It does not give a phenolic
character to the ales. It gives  bubble-gum and banana contributions, and a
what my wife describes as a buttery finish. (Very noticeable in the lower 
gravity
brews) I am going to plate it out this year and keep it on hand.

  And finally, Alan says,

>Ray Estrella writes:
>> ******** Never relax, constantly worry, have a better homebrew. ********
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>'cause your gonna NEED it, buddy!
>OK, here's mine:
>"Relax whenever possible, worry ONLY when you have to, and STILL have
>a better homebrew!"
>-Alan (a recovering anal-retentive)
 
  I have been mis-understood by my sig line many times.  I am not AR. (Doesn't
my wife wish though)  When I first started brewing I read everything I could 
get
my hands on. Millers (at the time) two books, Moshers, Noonen, and a bunch of 
mags.  Then I was told " You have got to read Papazian, he's the God."  So I 
get 
TNCJOHB and read it in one evening. I have never looked at it since. The next
time I went in to my favorite HB shop I told them that I was the anti-Charlie.
Hence the saying/sig line.  Do you think I can get it on some bottle caps?


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Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 10:00:51 -0500 (EST)
From: GMuel38838 at aol.com
Subject: Cyser Fermenation/100% Apple Cider?( Greg Mueller)

I've been reading alot about slow and non-existent fermentations of Cyser.
I've seen alot of brands of cider claiming to be 100% Apple Cider, but after
reading the ingredients, chemicals are sometimes added, mainly Potassium
Sorbate. How can companies get away with claiming something is 100% when its
not?  Should this be a FDA issue?

Speaking from past experience, if potassium sorbate is present, the cyser
will not ferment. In a past batch, I used a quart starter, 1 dry packet, and
finally a full gallon of slurry...after 2 weeks NADA.

When buying commerical cider, you must look for words like "100% Natural" and
NO PRESERVITIVES. Also, look for an expiration date, if its in the year 2000,
you can bet it's loaded with Sulfites/Sorbates.
- -----------------------------
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
 --Benjamin Franklin



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Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 11:13:58 -0500
From: Richard Johnson <Ricjohnson at SURRY.NET>
Subject: Brass ball valve

I wish to install a brass ball valve in my brewpot.  I went to a plumbing
supply and the clerk told me the heat from my propane cooker would melt the
nylon fitting inside the valve. I know this can be done I've seen them.  I
need tips on how to do this.  Also do I weld it on or is there one I can
screw in with gaskets that can take the heat?


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Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:22:40 -0500
From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at htp.net>
Subject: Cooking Pumpkins(small??), All grain vs Extract

Hi All

 Have been away for two weeks and just catching up. I found a number of
references to "smaller" cooking pumpkins vs jack-o-lantern types. On Long
Island the "cooking" pumpkins that I used this year were 23 lbs! Last years
log shows a weight of  14 lbs They obviously come in all sizes. The main
distinction is the orange-tan color.  These  are called "cooking", "baking",
"neck" , "cheese" depending on which farm stand I buy them at. After baking
to soften I freeze whatever I dont use for a later batch. This way I can
make batches for months after the pumpkin's stop being available.

 Have tasted this years batch of pumpkin ale  (the full volume boil one ,
now  6 weeks in the bottle) and it is quite good but right now a little
heavy on the cloves. From experience this will smooth out in a few weeks.
The color is the same clear bright amber-orange color I got last year. A
gorgeous beer with a thick pure white head.

BTW  I have commercial brewing experience and generally brew all grain , but
I  would not brew this beer any other way than the extract recipe. I have
helped produce a commercial brew-pub's all-grain equivalent and can't tell
the difference.It certainly is less work as an extract recipe.  Personally,
I think that the extract vs all-grain thread is 'beer politics'. Just as I
have gotten bad extract (oxidized) I have also gotten some badly malted
chocolate grain that ruined two batches (strong burnt flavor -  I should
have tasted the ground malt!). I rarely know any more about my grains than
about the extract'sthat  I use when brewing favorite extract based recipes. 

IMHO , just as is the case in cooking, the quality of the ingredients and
the experience of the brewer have more to do with the end result than the
method of production. The only point in favor of all-grain is that it is
probably easier to get "fresh" grain than "fresh" extract.

Jim Bentson
Centerport NY
- --
Registered ICC User
check out http://www.usefulware.com/~jfoltz



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Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 17:40:25 -0500 (EST)
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Lefebvre Brussels White

Anyone know if the sludge in a bottle of Lefebvre Brussels White (Quenast,
Belgium) is the fermentation yeast?  AlK said last week:

"Except for Orval (which is bottled with a blend of five yeasts), I don't
know of any other Belgian brewers who use a *different* yeast for bottling
than they did for fermentation."

Al, are you familiar with this particular brew?

*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy

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Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:43:22 -0600
From: Jim Graham <jim at n5ial.gnt.com>
Subject: brewing-related software?  ... plus 5L mini-kegs comments

Before I re-invent the wheel, does anyone know where I can find some
good brewing-related software that's either Unix-based, in source code
form (i.e., something that I can compile on a Unix machine) or written
in a portable scripting language like Perl, Tcl (with or without Tk),
etc.?  I'm basically looking for a tool, or better yet, a combination
of tools (which I can then wrap into one system with Tcl/Tk) that will
do the following:

   * Keep computerized records of past brews (recipe, dates, and
     basically all of the vital statistics for an extract brew)
   * Print labels (pref. plain-text labels on mailing-label strips)
   * Do various calculations such as hop utilization given a
     certain amount of malt extract per gallon of water in the boil,
     IBUs from the above, estimate original gravity based on the
     amount of malt extract used, and so on....
   * ???  (any other ideas here?)

If I can't find something, I can probably roll something out with Tcl/Tk,
but the first item tends to put it into the database category, which,
frankly, has always scared the h*ll out of me when it comes to writing
any programs (remember, I'm a network design guy who just happens to be
able to do some limited programming...not a real programmer!).

Suggestions?

Also, while I'm here, just a quick comment on the 5L mini-kegs I'd asked
about a few months ago.  I've been using them for a while now, and am
generally very happy with them...at least, with one tap (but it's *NOT*
the one I'd expected to have problems with!).  I have two taps.  The
first one I bought was the Beer King (plastic, less expensive).  I've
had *NO* problems with this tap.  The second tap is the Party Star Deluxe
(metal, more expensive).  I've had no end of trouble with this one (the
beer is often flat one day after tapping the keg---particularly in cases
where the keg is moved around after tapping).  Hopefully, keg lube (which
I have on order) will solve this problem---I gather it's supposed to help
get a better seal....

Oh, one other comment....  To anyone considering the use of the 8g CO2
cartridges instead of the 16g, forget it.  I typically get about two
kegs per 16g cartridge, but when I tried the 8g cartridges, I ended up
using about 3--4 cartridges *PER KEG*.  Needless to say, I don't think
they're getting a very good seal....  Fortunately, I only have one left
to use (might as well, right?), then they're ancient history.

Later,
   --jim

- -- 
73 DE N5IAL (/4)               MiSTie #49997         < Running Linux 2.0.21 >
jim at n5ial.gnt.net || j.graham at ieee.org  ICBM / Hurricane: 30.39735N 86.60439W
Jack:   DS B+Bd+O+W Y+G 2 Y L W C+ I+++ A++ S V+ F- Q++ P++ PA PL-- SC++++
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Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 19:19:15 -0600
From: "Charles L. Ehlers" <clehlers at flinthills.com>
Subject: Re: Wyeast Lager strains and higher fermentation temps

Dave,
  I use Wyeast for all lagering and some ales.  Because I use a refrigerator
w/ freezer, and still use the freezer, I have to rely on the  refrigerator's
thermostat to control the temp.  No matter how low I set the temp control
for the freezer, the temp doesn't drop below 45 degrees F.  It usually hangs
around 42 degrees F.
  I've always lagered very successfully, in spite of what Wyeast publishes
as the temp ranges (I use a calibrated refrigerator thermometer to track the
temp.)
  I've used the following:
2007 Pilsen
2035 American
2124 Bohemian
2272 North American
2278 Czech Pils
  As I said, the "warmest" I can get the fridge is 45 degrees.  I've pitched
and placed in the fridge immediately, and have had active fermentation in 18
hours.
  Lately, I've been pitching and letting sit at room temp until there's and
active fermentation, always w/in 12 hours, usually less, then putting in the
fridge.
  Because I can't precisely control the temp, I can't lager as Noonan
prescribes.  I generally do a primary at 42-45 degrees.  And then do a
secondary around 35 to 40 degrees.  The length of the primary and secondary
varies depending on the activity and subsequent clarity of the brew.
  Never entered any of these in a competition (have never entered ANY brew
in a competition--too lazy) but have always had high praise from anyone
who's tasted, including members of the local home-brew club.
  Anyway, Wyeast WILL ferment below their optimum temps.
Charles Ehlers




<<Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 12:26:14 -0800
From: "Riedel, Dave" <RiedelD at dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
Subject: Wyeast Lager strains and higher fermentation temps

It looks like my cellar temperature will drop to about 56-58F over the
winter.  Wyeast lists the following fermentation ranges:

2124 Bohemian 46-54 F
2206 Bavarian 48-58 F
2278 Czech Pils 48-68 F
2308 Munich 48-56 F

Note: the *optimum* temperatures are listed as 48-50 F.

In light of the recent post by Jeff Renner citing some examples of lager
ferments of 58 and 60 F, I've been contemplating doing a
series of lagers (by repitching one initial package of Wyeast).>>




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Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 22:02:13 -0500
From: Pete and Kris Stelter <pkstelt at wsii.com>
Subject: Pectin Enzyme

Today I made a cider recipe out of the Homebrewer's Recipe Guide.  The 
recipe called for 2 tsp. of pectin enzyme.  All my homebrew store had 
was a pectic enzyme solution.  The directions on the bottle said use 1/4
tsp for 5 gallons.  Not knowing the effects, I used 1/4 tsp.  My questions:

1) What is the difference between pectin and pectic enzymes?
2) Did I add the correct amount?

The recipe in question is the "Falling Leaves Autumn Cider" on page 145.

Respond to: pkstelt at wsii.com or stelterp at swos.navy.mil

Thanks.
Pete Stelter
Newport, RI


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Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 22:42:33 -0500
From: Tom Clark <rtclark at eurekanet.com>
Subject: Yeast

Hey you biologists out there,

How much magnification does it require to look at yeast through a cheap 
microscope?  I happen to have an inexpensive microscope but don't know 
really what is required.  (I am pretty ignorant about biology but I 
still make some pretty good beer by following advice from guys like you.

Thanks for the help.

Tom


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Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 20:34:06 -0800
From: smurman at best.com
Subject: homebrew cooking - stone-ground mustard


In todays issue of cooking with smurman we're going to make
stone-ground mustard.  Those fancy mustards you see in the store are
basically mustard and vinegar, bringing their total production cost to
about one nickel.  Nice profit.

Anyway, the first thing to do is get some coarse-ground mustard.  Many
bulk food stores will sell yellow and brown mustard seeds.  You'll
need to grind these somehow.  I have a $10 electric grinder that I use
for spices.  You could probably get by with a rolling pin for coarse
grinding.  You don't really want to use mustard powder for this
recipe.  If you have a coffee grinder, you can use that on a
medium-coarse setting.  To clean the grinder afterwards, you can add
some white rice and grind that up.  The rice will remove most of the
mustard residue and leave no flavor.

1/4 cup yellow coarse-ground mustard
1/4 cup brown coarse-ground mustard
1/2 cup homebrew (hoppy brews work well for this recipe)
1 tbsp. apple cider vinegar

In a saucepan, combine the mustard, beer, and vinegar and heat at the
lowest setting.  Stir the mustard into the beer, then cover and let
simmer for about 15 minutes.  Stir occasionally to prevent sticking.

Raise the heat and add
1 tbsp. sugar
1/2 tsp. salt

Let this mixture thicken and bubble for about 5 minutes.  Don't crank
the heat all the way up though, just get a nice bubble going.  Don't
worry if it's not thick enough right now, when it cools it will
thicken up.

That's it.  You can use the sauce warm as a glaze for fish or chicken,
or you can pour it into some jars and store in the fridge.  It should
make about two small mustard jars worth.

Freshly made mustard it's a lot spicier and more flavorful than you're
used to if you've never had it.  The flavor will reduce after about
3-5 days, but it's still better (and cheaper!!) than store-bought.
Enjoy. 

SM

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