HOMEBREW Digest #2600 Sat 03 January 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Schmidling take him off the digest. (Evan Kraus)
  slow start ferment (AlannnnT)
  Curmi ("Graham Wheeler")
  NA Brew (Randy Lee)
  BS ("David R. Burley")
  Re: RIMS, Soma, Dr Dogma, Corn and the Bottom line (dfikar)
  Electric Brewing (KennyEddy)
  Jim Arbuckle ("David R. Burley")
  Re: Newbie kegger (Spencer W Thomas)
  High Tech Innovations Grain Mills (Evan Kraus)
  Jethro's bagels (haafbrau1)
  MIXMASHER  vs RIMS (Jack Schmidling)
  Corma ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  MIXMASHER (R) (Roger Kohles)
  Plastic Buckets (Curt Sutliff)
  mixmasher??? (Kyle Druey)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 07:19:40 -0500 From: Evan Kraus <ekraus at avana.net> Subject: Schmidling take him off the digest. Take him off this forum !!!!!! All he uses this is for his own benefit !!!! It is a great sales tool for him !!!! GET RID OF HIM !!!!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 07:30:34 EST From: AlannnnT <AlannnnT at aol.com> Subject: slow start ferment To: swschult at CBDCOM-EMH1.APGEA.ARMY.MIL RE: Slow starting ferment. Assuming the Nottingham was fresh and viable, sounds like the wort was someplace too cold for a fast start. Powdered yeasts start fast at 67-68 deg F or higher, but lag times increase dramaticaly at lower than 65-66. Did you have this carboy in a cool basement? Some observations: I stock and sell Nottingham and Edme in my store. Edme is one of the best starters and very tolerant of pitching temp for the most part. The Danstar line, including Nottingham, have very clean flavor profiles and are used by a lot of very experienced brewers because of their quality. [As has been seen on the HBD] I often recommend Edme, in the blue and gold pouch, to novice brewers because it seems to produce 'good enough' results and no one has ever complained that it would not start. It also has twice as much yeast in each package. Make sure you buy your yeast from someplace that keeps it refrigerated, even dry yeast. Dry yeast does have a long shelf life, but in the fridge it is at a constant temp, and stays better. Alan Karps Homebrew Happy [Hoppy] New Year! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:05:41 -0000 From: "Graham Wheeler" <Graham.Wheeler at btinternet.com> Subject: Curmi In HBD 2599 Dan Cole said: > Has anyone ever stumbled across information regarding an ancient beer > made by the Celtics called "korma, courmi or coirm"? >"The beer of the ancient Celts is various referred to as korma, courmi > or coirm. The second-century Greek physician and writer on medicine, > Dioscorides, said that 'Coirm, being drunk by the Irish instead of wine, > produces headaches, is a compound of bad juices, and does harm to the > muscles." The account Dan quotes is from Pytheus, a Greek navigator who visted Britain in the 4th century BC. I think Guinness are pushing their historical luck a bit to suggest that Pytheus actually visited Ireland, but you never know. The following is a snip from one of my (unpblished) books, researched from various sources, which gives the little that I know about Pytheus and curmi. ****** It is said that ale was first introduced into Britain by the Celts as early as 500 bc, but it is fair to assume that ale has been around for as long as barley has been cultivated, and that predates 500 bc by a few thousand years. The first solid evidence of beer being made in Britain comes from a Greek navigator and explorer, Pytheus of Marseilles, who visited Britain in 304 bc. He said of Britain: "The island is thickly populated and has an extremely chilly climate. The people of Brittania are simple in their habits and far removed from the cunning and knavishness of modern man. They are unusually hospitible and gentle in manner. Their diet is inexpensive... They do not drink wine, but a fermented liquor made from barley, which they call curmi... It is a compound of bad juices which gives headaches and does harm to the muscles. It [Britain] has many kings and potentates who live for the most part in a state of mutual peace." Pytheus described the method by which the Britons harvested their grain while it was still green and then dried it so that it would keep. He described how the drying was performed using fires; the grain being parched over specially-constructed hearths, the design of which varied from place to place. He also remarked that grain was one of Britian's chief exports, as was "clever hunting dogs". Unfortunately, Pytheus's original account has been lost and we rely on other Greek historians, writing much later, to relate his story. Unfortunately, Pytheus was laughed at because his people did not believe his fanciful stories of the congealed sea (pack-ice), chunks of solid sea bigger than his ship (icebergs), or that the sun never set in the far north, among many other discoveries that his Mediterranean contempories found laughable. Later writers, such as Strabo (born 63bc), writing some 200 years later, still treated Pytheas's accounts of his travels with scorn, as if he were a fraud, and much interesting historical information about Celtic Britain, and probably the production of curmi, has undoubtably been lost or suppressed. ***** Anyway, botton line is that it seems that the ancient Britons had grain drying kilns and thus had the technology to make malted barley long before the Romans popped over for a pint! Graham Wheeler High Wycombe England Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 07:53:55 -0600 From: Randy Lee <rjlee at imation.com> Subject: NA Brew Rob Moline asserts: >> Pro operations that produce NA beer rely on very expensive techniques involving vacuum centrifuges, etc. << Interesting. I've not found anything in the literature about how this is done large scale, but I have found reference to the fact that during prohibition, brewers brewed regular beer as the first step towards NA (which explains how easy it was to slip a live one out now and again). Now in the late 20's I can figure that they didn't have vacuumm centrifuges or anything like that level of technology. Anyone with a loooong memory of how the big boys did it at that time? Randy Lee Western Norway (Wisconsin) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:48:25 -0500 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: BS Brewsters: Although he didn't mention me by name, Rob Moline's comment about my emotional outburst to Jack S's "lazy brain" , beer-a-day method of dealing with alcoholism was out of line with the way I expect myself to deal with topics here. But I did it unashamedly = and I would do it again because the risk of non-experts ( being a recovering alcoholic like JackS claims does not make him an expert on treatment) harming someone else's life by providing such "information" to others who may be desperately searching for help is too great. If someone gives you bad advice on how to brew a beer, you only lose a batch and learn something in the process. = That's what this forum is all about. If someone gives you bad advice on how to deal with alcoholism, we're talking about a serious thing that can affect someone's, and those around him, whole life from which they may never recover. I wanted to sound an alarm as loud as I could and chose this method. If we want to have a discussion on alcoholism, its identification and treatment, I think we should use professional papers ( just like we do beer) and experts ( treatment professionals) on the subject to make short presentations and then discuss those presentations in light of their applicability. Definitely not present a theory without professional support, especially by an admitted alcoholic in denial like JackS. You may have read Dr. Dean Fikar's comments that it *still* is the recent medical opinion that alcoholics have NO tolerance for alcohol and that there is NO established lower limit on the amount of alcohol such an afflicted person can consume. That was my point and I believe JackS is treading on dangerous ground and perhaps leading others onto it if he continues in his present vein. I quote Dr. Fikar's comments from the January 2, 1998 HBD because they so perfectly reflect my feelings: >I'd be willing to bet that there is a problem drinker out there in cyberspace >reading your's and Jack's posts and thinking "maybe, just maybe, I can start >drinking again in moderation". If I can save just one alcoholic from trying >to rationalize another attempt at "moderate" drinking then this use of = >HBD bandwith is worth it. = Thanks, Rob, for giving me the chance to explain myself on this matter. - ---------------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:08:15 -0600 (CST) From: dfikar at flash.net Subject: Re: RIMS, Soma, Dr Dogma, Corn and the Bottom line >RIMS, Soma, Dr Dogma, Corn and the Bottom line (Jack Schmidling) >From: dfikar at flash.net >Subject: Re: Take it off. PLEASE > >"""Take this note off your page. PLEASE!!! > >""This one really bugs me because by saying that, you make it >obvious that you did not read it. I never claimed to have read it. What did I miss in your post that justifies your dangerous claim that alcoholics can have a drink per day and not be at considerable risk for relapse? > >"This may apply to you..... > >Thank you. All I ever claimed was my own experience. I do not >give free medical advice. > Sounds like that's what you're doing by implying that alcoholics can drink one drink per day and be OK. Maybe you can but most can't. >" but I can say with assurance, as an M.D., that many >alcoholics simply can't "limit" their intake of alcohol. > >That is a contradiction in terms. They CAN do anything they >wish. They simply choose to drink more. > My point is that many/most alcoholics are OK as long they stay completely away from the stuff. The ones that get into trouble once they dry out are the ones that try what you advocate. Why gamble on further serious health risk for the sake of one drink per day. >" In fact I heard one the other day say that if he has one drink he'll >have 20 - i.e. he has no control once he starts drinking. > >I have the same problem with cookies. > So do I. ;-) I truly think it's great that you've got such great control over your drinking now. I just don't want any recovering alcoholic out there who might read this digest to think it's OK to go against the advice that they have undoubtedly been given by professionals and go back to drinking alcohol in any amount. Many have died by believing that they could start drinking in moderation again. - --------------------------------------------- Dean Fikar - Ft. Worth, TX (dfikar at flash.net) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:09:45 EST From: KennyEddy <KennyEddy at aol.com> Subject: Electric Brewing A couple of people have posted about mashing/brewing with electric elements & plastic buckets. I'd like to chime in since I have a bit of experience with this topic. *Done properly*, electric elements will not caramelize wort to any noticible degree. I have brewed both a Witbier and a Classic American Pilsner, two very light and delicate beers, with no darkening or caramelization, certainly no more than one would get with any other means. The key is how much power passes to the wort through how much surface area. Concentrating all the heat in one square inch will give much different results with respect to caramelization & scorching than passing the same power through 100 square inches. Using the right elements will prevent any problems. My system runs at about 25 watts/square inch; I've estimated in the past that a typical cajun-cooker & keg setup may see as much as 50 W/sq-in or more. If these brewers can routinely make light-colored beers, than certainly I can at half the power density. As for operation from US 120V mains, that question is a bit trickier. Warm-up times are directly proportional to the power used (which in turn is volts times amps) as well as to the volume of liquid in question. Since your 120V source is fused at 15 or 20 amps, you're limited to 120 x 15 or 120 x 20 = 1800 to 2400 watts. 1800W will bring 5 gallons of water from room temp to strike or sparge temp in about 40 minutes, or 10 gallons in 1 hour 20 minutes. 2400W would do these jobs in 30 minutes and 1 hour, respectively. This assumes you have the full current capacity of that circuit branch available exclusively for your brewing (usually not the case). A friend of mine built an electric brew bucket that tripped the breaker even though his draw was about 15A and he used a 20A kitchen outlet; he later discovered the cirucit was shared by the fridge. My solution was to use the 240V dryer outlet, and split the 240V into two separate 120V lines. The dryer outlet is fused for 30A, though the 120V components I used (GFI's and other standard electrical fixtures) are rated at 20A. But since I don't do laundry when I brew, I can count on the full power available from these two 2400W supplies. My vessels use two 240V/4800W elements each, with each one operating at 120V for 1125W. My boiler is not insulated, and I believe adding a wrap of insulation would allow a decent boil of five gallons of wort using just one such element on 120V (about 10 amps). While heating times for striking & sparging and heating to boiling would be extended, it's still in the practical range. For an extract brew, where only the main batch heatup is relevent, it's fine. I have a detailed description of my electric brewery on my web page at http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy Please note that the information in this post and the information on my web page is not by any means intended to be a complete and foolproof instruction on building an electric brewery. Electricity is potentially deadly and working with it requires skill and care. This is not a stock disclaimer but a serious call for caution. Should you wish to undertake such a project, *please* seek the advice and help of a qualified electrician or engineer. A trade of a few homebrews is often bribe enough. ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX KennyEddy at aol.com http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:18:45 -0500 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Jim Arbuckle Brewsters: Jim Arbuckle I can't respond to your comments unless you send me your e-address. Should I respond here? Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 10:46:50 -0500 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Newbie kegger I did the "how many batches" calculation a while back. I'll try to reconstruct it. 1 liter of CO2 at standard temperature and pressure (STP = 0C / 1 atm) weighs just about 2 grams. This is "1 volume" of CO2 for carbonating 1 liter of beer. 5 gallons is 19 liters (call it 20 for simplicity.) Suppose you carbonate your beers to 2.5 "volumes", and dispense at 14 lbs (1 atm gauge = 2 atm absolute). Assuming the beer has 1 volume of CO2 dissolved in it out of the fermenter (not a bad assumption), you'll use 30 liters to carbonate, and 40 liters to push it out of the keg. Assume that you use another 40 liters pushing liquid between kegs when sanitizing. That's a total of 110 liters per batch = 220 grams. 10 lbs is about 4500 grams, which is about 20 x 220. So, under these assumptions, you should get at least 20 batches from one 10 lb keg. If you carbonate less, push at a lower pressure, or use less CO2 moving sanitizer around, then you'll get more batches. =S Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 11:19:48 -0500 From: Evan Kraus <ekraus at avana.net> Subject: High Tech Innovations Grain Mills I haven't seen any postings on there mills. I do have a friend that has one (who writes for a beer related publication) that swears by it. I am also planning on buying their mill for my 1/2 BBL system. Their page is http://nstend.com/hightech/beer/ - ----------------------------------- Evan Kraus Kraus Brewing Company http://www.avana.net/~ekraus/ or http://www.mindspring.com/~ekraus/ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:14:24 -0500 From: haafbrau1 at juno.com Subject: Jethro's bagels Jethro wrote: So, when I take my next drug test, (which I won't.....it's an insult)...and they find I'm using opiates, 'cos I had eaten "Poppy Seed" bagels or bread, I will call you to clarify this for them. The opiate screening does regularly test 'pos' for 'good bread' eaters. I am yet to see the evaluations for Hempen Ale. Pot & poppies are two very different beasts. I believe that the poppy seeds are used in opiate production, as opposed to pot seeds which have no buzz value. If we had been talking about Poppy Beer or even Moldy Rye Beer, I would have agreed completely that they would have an impact on Big Brother's little way of seeing whether you have been naughty or nice. Paul Haaf haafbrau1 at juno.com Somewhere in the Pine Barrens of South Jersey Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 11:24:53 -0800 From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> Subject: MIXMASHER vs RIMS As promised, I have put together a web page describing the MIXMASHER. In spite of the confrontational subject line, it is meant more to get attention than to change minds. Gadgets will always be loved for gadgets' sake and I applaud folks who break new ground. It's a bit like telling people they do not need to adjust a mill if they feel so inclined. Anyway, it's too long to post here and pictures are worth a thousand words. I am not sure how best to link it to my beer page but for the present you can find it by following the beer trail on the Astronomy page or it is directly accessible at: http://user.mc.net/arf/mix.htm I would prefer public comments on the HBD to save having to repeat stuff ad nausiam in email. js - -- Visit our WEB pages: Beer Stuff.........http://ays.net/jsp Astronomy.......http://user.mc.net/arf ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 11:27:52 -0800 From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com> Subject: Corma Dan Cole asks in HBD 2599: 'Has anyone ever stumbled across information regarding an ancient beer made by the Celtics called "korma, courmi or coirm"?' >From Lt. Colonel Robert Gayre's *Wassail! In Mazers of Mead*, 1986, Brewer's Publications, Chapter IV, Mead Among Celt, Slav and Finn: "Pliny, speaking of the British Celts, tells us that 'these islanders consume great quantities of honey-brew' (mead). We also learn that it was drunk by the Gauls, in nearby France, where we learn they had a rich mead called zythus and a less generous one known as corma." I would guess this corma to have been dry mead, as fully fermented lower honey meads must be. There are lots of sources for information on making dry mead in the beer to barleywine gravity range, including the referenced work, Papazian's books, FAQ's available on the Brewery website and links. If the Irish were drinking their corma before fermentation was complete, it would have been powerful, harsh, possibly with harshness obscured by the sweetness of unfermented sugar. Phenols and higher alcohols from spontaneous, high temperature fermentation could certainly produce headaches. A nice nap does help rejuvenate those muscles ;-) I know from my own experience, if you make mead, be prepared to wait for it to become the Nectar of Gods and Heroes. My first batch is just now becoming drinkable, more than a year after bottling, two years after brewing. Subsequent batches aren't ready yet. Wassail! -Grant Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei Des Moines, Washington Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 14:33:10 -0600 From: Roger Kohles <rkohles at navix.net> Subject: MIXMASHER (R) On Thu, 01 Jan 1998 09:06:44 -0800 Jack Schmidling wrote: >Fact of the matter is, there is a far simpler way to do what RIMS >does, I just haven't gotten around to marketing it. It's called >the MIXMASHER(R). Unfortunately, as it has an electrical plug on >it, I will never market it because I do not want to deal with >greedy lawyers and the government. > >One of these days I will post instructions on making it and rims >will go to the museum like the false bottom. > As a satisfied customer of Jack's products, I sure would like to see his instructions for the MIXMASTER(R). I find that Jack has an uncanny ability to reduce brewing complexity by providing quality, KIS (Keep It Simple) products. So Jack, if you don't plan to market this product, please let your satisfied customers benefit from your insight. BTW, oil or not, plain old corn makes for a fine adjunct. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 18:59:27 -0800 From: Curt Sutliff <bigsut at earthlink.net> Subject: Plastic Buckets In Charlie P's book he discusses assembling a "zapap" lauter tun from two "food grade" five gallon buckets. How does one tell if one of these ubiquitous white pails is actually "food grade" as they all seem to be made of HDPE with various markings molded into their bottoms. Thank You Curt Sutliff Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 19:09:05 -0800 From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> Subject: mixmasher??? Jack S comments that he has developed a new mashing contraption: >Fact of the matter is, there is a far simpler way to do what RIMS >does, I just haven't gotten around to marketing it. It's called >the MIXMASHER(R)... >One of these days I will post instructions on making it and rims >will go to the museum... What the duvel is a mixmasher? It would be interesting to see what you have developed, I am sure the HBD gadgeteers would love to read about it. I would toss my RSMS in a second and built your new thingy if I thought it would give me better mash process control and make brew day easier. Although, I think C.D. Pritchard has already beat you to it. He has developed a mechanical mash stirring device that is detailed on his web site, look in the Brewery for the URL. Please don't post if your message will include condescending quips, private email would be better. Kyle Druey brewing in Bakersfield, CA Return to table of contents
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