---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Schmidling take him off the digest. (Dave Hopf)
  Intolerance.....(And I Detest P.C.) ("Rob Moline")
  Re: more extraction efficiency/Scotmalt ?? (Steve Alexander)
  Re: Don't shred the barley husks, why? (Steve Alexander)
  Korma, courmi, coirm - Historic Celtic drink (Brad McMahon)
  Schmidling take him off the digest. (Tony Owens)
  Store bought brew (DGofus)
  Take it off line! (nathan_l_kanous_ii)
  re: Alcoholism thread ("Fogdt, Michael")
  Saranac Winter Wassail  dupe? ("J.D. Richardson")
  Re: MIXMASHER  vs RIMS (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Draught Notice, Jan 98 ("Thor")
  Mixmasher Review (Kyle Druey)
  Food Grade. ("David R. Burley")
  Re Mixmasher (GTKF)
  DONT take JS off / Web information content (Heiner Lieth)
  Lable Making Software ("David L. Thomson")
  Kettle Mashing (Dave Hopf)
  Re: MIXMASHER vs RIMS (Scott Murman)
  What is this hop? ("Bret A. Schuhmacher")
  Call (PLEAD) for Judges, 1998 Hail to Ale (BernardCh)
  Another Slow/Non Starter ("Gregg Soh")
  WTB: Cheap chrome beer taps ("Kevin W. Aylor")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 22:56:11 -0800
From: Dave Hopf <ibis at cnw.com>
Subject: Schmidling take him off the digest.

Evan Kraus <ekraus at avana.net> wrote about Jack Schmidling:

> Take him off this forum !!!!!!
> All he uses this is for his own benefit !!!!
> It is a great sales tool for him !!!!
> GET RID OF HIM !!!!!!

I don't know Jack personally, I've never bought anything from him, but I
have read a lot of his posts. You can say a lot of things about Jack,
but what you said is not true. Salespeople don't have opinions as it is
bad for business. Jack has opinions and he is not afraid to speak his
mind. If Jack was using the mailing list as a "great sales tool", you
would never hear him say anything controversial or opinionated. I know
because I spent six years of my life in sales. 

I hate to see people go for the cheap shot just because they don't agree
with someone else's ideas or opinions. You should be ashamed of
yourself. Jack is just another home brewer who is fortunate enough to
have come up with some marketable products. He is not trying to drum his
detractors off the mailing list like you are. Let the man be.

Dave

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 04:05:50 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: Intolerance.....(And I Detest P.C.)

			The Jethro Gump Report
Intolerance.....(And I Detest P.C.)
	I learned long ago not to disparage viable and effective treatment
modalities in those afflicted. Especially when I have not met the
individual personally, and when, from what I can observe, they seem to be
living fully functional, and in this case, very well integrated and
successfull lives.	(If only I could say the same for myself!!......Can
You??)
	Now that one, self acknowledged, sufferer, has spoken of his methods and
results, the sh*t hits the fan. And all for speaking 'his'  truth.
	Yet, there are not only calls for verbal abuse, but for censorship.
	Others speak of national brewpub owners , and others speak of how nice it
is, (and it is), to have owners of major companies contributing to the
Digest.
	I see no need to defend Jack Schmidling. He can do that on his own, and
very well, I might add.
	
	Someone sez he was not mentioned by name. He alone did not provoke my
comment, though he was more than enough!

	My position from the outset, though never stated, nor asked,  is pretty
well summed up by the following, written by a "treatment professional."

> truly think it's great that you've got such great control over your
drinking
>now. I just don't want any recovering alcoholic out there who might read
this
>digest to think it's OK to go against the advice that they have
undoubtedly
>been given by professionals and go back to drinking alcohol in any amount.

>Many have died by believing that they could start drinking in moderation
>again.    Dean Fikar -
	
	
	But then again, I have not yet commented on the 'Tx',  (treatment, for the
non "treatment professional"), nor have any presumption to do so..Dr.F's
response is more than sufficient. Not that I ever stated,  nor needed to
explain this. 

****************************************************************************
*******************************************************************
******	My only position is revulsion to denigration of another's methods of
dealing with an adversity.********
****************************************************************************
*******************************************************************
	
	Nor have I commented on any past afflictions in the lives of my family, 
nor friends.   It's none of your business....and certainly not in the
realms of interest to the HBD....
	

Jethrbo (Let's Have Some Treatment Professionals Comment) Gump
Registered Psychiatric Nurse, 
RN 0711428,  List "A".
Expires 31.10.98 
New South Wales Nurses Registration Board,
Health Professionals Registration Boards,
PO Box K 599,
Haymarket, N.S.W., 1238,
AUSTRALIA.

Rob Moline
Brewer At Large
brewer at ames.net
Ames, Iowa.

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 06:36:50 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: more extraction efficiency/Scotmalt ??

John Rezabek wrote:

> I had this concern the other day . . . so why use the coarse grind
> number? Wouldn't the fine grind number be a better representation of the
> "best" one can do with small batches at home?

As I stated in the original post, DBCG%(coarse grind) numbers are about the
upper limit of what has been practically achievable by commercial brewery
apparatus, even tho the IoB and ASBC and EBC mash methods are quite different
from commercial practice.  I also believe that the coarse grind, Buhler-Miag
mill setting of 7, is a lot closer to a normal grind than is a fine grind
setting of 2.  We could use the fine grind figures, there is no doubt, but
I had to make an arbitrary choice among the lab measures, and this is what
I chose.
 
> Using the numbers derived
> from the equation you propose, my efficiencies get rather high for my
> relatively rudimentary setup (no RIMS or anything). Geez not a single
> base malt over 1035 . . . can it really be so?

Remember that whether we use the DBCG, DBFG or hot water extract(HWE) figures
as the basis of a calculated efficiency, that we are measuring against a
relatively simple step mash or single infusion mash which uses an excessive
amount of mash water and no true sparge.  You shouldn't be too surprised to
get decoction figures of over 100%, I have!  Your efficiencies are generally
quite similar with mine when I cut off my sparge at about SG 1.010.
Remember too that a good micro can get very near 100% of the DBCG% derived
figures that I posted.  The point is that the figures I posted are not any
sort of theoretical limit.  Instead they represent a practical estimate of
achievable extraction, based on well known laboratory malt analysis methods,
and not on someones unsubstantiated guesstimate. 

I think you missed one base malts in your search tho'.
Brewing Products Scotmalt1    1.0363
also a lot of the pale ale malts were as high.

BTW - let me repeat my request - does anybody know where to get 'Brewing
Products' malts in the US ??

> Can we assume you'll
> continue to post numbers here? I can put them in an Excel spreadsheet,
> which can be downloaded via ftp or from our local club's website if
> that's OK.

I'll update the figures as best I can, and repost only when/if there is
sufficient new data to warrant it.  Anything that I post here is free for the
taking for any non-profit purpose as far as I'm concerned. Let us know 
where the ftp site is please.

> Looks like you need some data for unmalted adjuncts. I'll contact my
> supplier to see if he can help.

Unmalted adjucts cannot be tested by the standard lab procedures as I
understand them.  Perhaps there is a standard extraction measure for adjuncts
tho' - not sure.  Anyone have an ASBC standards book ?

Steve Alexander

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 07:04:54 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Don't shred the barley husks, why?

Jack Schmidling forwards ...

>From: "Wills, Frederick J (MED)" <Frederick.Wills at amermsx.med.ge.com>
>Subject: Roller Mill Gap Settings
>
>"Is this fact or momily?  I have heard this oft repeated, but fail to see
>why smaller particles of husk would cause tannic extraction that would
>not occur anyway.
>
>I have always had a real problem with this one.  As the husks are only
>a few cells thick, it is hard to see why more of anything would be
>extracted if cut into smaller pieces.

I'm not certain that i can fully explain this either, but I can suggest some
reasons why shredding the husks might cause additional phenolic extraction.

The true husk is largely cellulose and a small amounts of other sugars and
proteins embedded in its structure.  There are some phenols, and probably even
more silicates attached to the true husk.  The true husk is impervious to water.

Just under the true husk are several distinguishable tissue layers including the
aleurone which is the ultimate source of most of the barley phenols and enzymes.
During a 'reasonable' crush, much of the aleurone and true husk remain bonded
together. The aleurone layer is only about 3 cells thick, and oddly enough the 
aleurone layer cells do not become as degraded as other barley cells during
malting. The phenols are largely attached to sugars, polysaccharides and other
phenols in the aleurone layer.

When the husk is more intact, the water impervious husk and less degraded
aleurone
layers may allow less water access to the included phenols.  When the husk is
shredded, the aleurone is more subject to degradation through mashing, and
phenol
extraction through sparging.

Steve Alexander

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 22:32:34 +1000
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Korma, courmi, coirm - Historic Celtic drink

>Has anyone ever stumbled across information regarding an
>ancient beer made
>by the Celtics called "korma, courmi or coirm"?

No, but I have recipes for Usquebaugh, Bumpo
and Bainnecor. Cor is the Gaelic word for heart.
Perhaps it is similar to Coirm.
But then maybe not.

>Sounds interesting, don't it?

Yes, it DOES.
(Sorry, I abhor poor grammar!)

- --
Brad McMahon
35:01'S 138:44'E
The HBD's southern most brewer?


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 22:09:58 -0500
From: Tony Owens <ivy at fastlane.net>
Subject: Schmidling take him off the digest.

> Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 07:19:40 -0500
> From: Evan Kraus <ekraus at avana.net>
> Subject: Schmidling take him off the digest.
> 
> Take him off this forum !!!!!!
> All he uses this is for his own benefit !!!!
> It is a great sales tool for him !!!!
> GET RID OF HIM !!!!!!

I usually am only lurking around here.  I'm a first time poster to the
digest.  I couldn't let this one slide by.  I'm sure there will be a lot
of other responses to this sophmoric statement.

I wouldn't want to read this rag if someone were able to just "GET RID"
of someone.  I don't always agree with what Jack has to say (ala "stout
taps") but I do like to "hear" what he has to say.  Self promoting,
occasionally.....what if he is?  I've only seen posts by him that
compare his products to other manufacturers.  If the guy that own's
"valleymill" wanted to compare his against Jack, he's free to do that! 
That's what's so great about this forum.

Tony Owens
Fort Worth, Texas

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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:40:32 EST
From: DGofus <DGofus at aol.com>
Subject: Store bought brew

I want to supplement my homebrew supply with store bought brew for my friends
and family that shy away from homebrew. I have come up with a list, if any
body has any suggestions or comments please reply;

1. Sam Adams Lager ( well liked by many )
2. Guinness ( for the adventureous )
3. Bass Ale ( great for 1/2 and 1/2 with the above-impresses the hell out of
'em )
4. Labatts ( Blue, Ice, 50 ale--Beats the Budmillcoors, I refuse to buy)
5. Hempen Ale ( the novelty will get them! )
 
The majority of these people like beer, but are not into hombrew. Please e-
mail your suggestions to:

Dgofus at aol.com

Bob Fesmire
Madman Brewery
Pottstown, PA

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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:56:03 -0400
From: nathan_l_kanous_ii at ferris.edu
Subject: Take it off line!


To those of you who have taken in upon yourselves to attack Mr. Schmidling
in public, grow up!  You have decided to unnecessarily attack him and his
views about life and business for no reason.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  When I read Jack's post, it was
obvious that it was an opinion, not scientific dogma, nor accepted truth.
Just his opinion.  I took it for just that.  I also could have paged down.

One poster (sorry, I didn't collect names) indicated that he was a
physician and very politely stated his opinion.  Take note, he never
attacked Jack and provided an alternative position.  Thank you for your
grace.

The rest of you need to take your personal agendas off line.  I am a health
care professional, as well, and haven't felt the need to support or refute
any of the positions posted.  I don't feel I have to.  If you think
everything posted on the InterNet or any forum within is always true,
you've got another thing coming.  A large percentage of the crap out there,
is just that.

I've wasted enough of my precious time.

Nathan in Frankenmuth, MI

P.S. if you beg to differ with me, do it like a responsible adult, if
private



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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:28:42 -0600
From: "Fogdt, Michael" <MFogdt01 at sprintspectrum.com>
Subject: re: Alcoholism thread

I'm no doctor (and I don't play one on TV or the HBD), *but* having many
years experience dealing directly with recovering people and twelve step
programs, I'd like to throw in my 2 cents, fwiw.

This issue needs to be put into perspective. Alcoholism is a disease. So
is Diabetes. Without insulin injections, we all know what happens to a
diabetic. Who would deprive a diabetic of their insulin? Who would
suggest a diabetic eat a box of chocolates? Unthinkable, isn't it? Of
course, a diabetic taking insulin *could* eat a box of chocolates, or
just one piece. But why? The results could be disastrous. In order to
avoid further complications, that person must learn to accept their
disease and get on with their life with certain *restrictions,* however
uncomfortable. Nobody chooses to be diabetic! We don't blame diabetics
for their disease. Do you know of anyone who chose to be an alcoholic?
Yet, we're quick to pass judgment and blame the alcoholic for drinking
again! It's not about will power. You can't will diabetes/cancer/a cold
away. Get the point?

Another issue to understand is that alcohol (or any other drug, for that
matter) is but one of the many *symptoms* alcoholics exhibit. The
disease manifests itself in many ways, most prominently in the
sufferer's thought processes.  There is no mental defense against
drinking for alcoholics. Alcoholics tend to try to do the same things
over and over (controlled drinking, for instance), each time expecting
different results. Well, the results are always the same - that person
gets drunk! The only hope for recovery an alcoholic has is pure
abstinence. To combat the remaining symptoms, recovering individuals
find that by following a twelve step program of recovery such as A.A.
they can begin to realize a new beginning - without alcohol - and return
to a productive lifestyle. And that benefits all of us!

Lastly, recovering individuals - particularly in A.A. - like to heed the
following: "To Thine Own Self Be True!"
'nuff said.

RETURNING TO LURKING STATUS!

Mike Fogdt - Ann Arbor, MI (just a stone's throw away from Jeff - I'm
feeling the gravitational pull......!)
Go Blue!

 

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 10:36:27 +0000
From: "J.D. Richardson" <mrjames at netsync.net>
Subject: Saranac Winter Wassail  dupe?

Hello.

At our last club meeting, I had the pleasure of tasting Saranac's
'Winter Wassail.' Unlike many spiced brews, this contained no ginger;
I love ginger, but I must say that to my palate, this was one of the
most delicious spiced beers I've ever tasted. It was balanced
perfectly, I thought.

The ingredient list on label says: "cinnamon, nutmeg, orange, and
allspice."

Can anyone give me *quantity suggestions* for these spices for a 5
gallon batch? I know that it's easy to overdo these ingredients. I've
gleaned ideas from the Cats Meow and HBD archives, but would
appreciate advice from someone who has actually brewed a similar beer
several times.

Thanks,

Jim Richardson, The Thirsty Scotsman

Return to table of contents


Date: 03 Jan 1998 08:17:00 -0800
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at vigra.com>
Subject: Re: MIXMASHER  vs RIMS

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to rec.crafts.brewing as well.

>> Jack Schmidling writes:

JS> As promised, I have put together a web page describing the MIXMASHER.

JS> I would prefer public comments on r.c.b. to save having to repeat
JS> stuff ad nausiam in email.

OK, I checked it out and it is a very novel idea.  It DOES implement
some of the benefits of a RIMS system, however, there are tradeoffs.
The biggest one I see, is that the MixMasher trades off simplicity of
implementation for features.  That is the individual brewer's choice
and I will not attempt to counsel which choice to make.  The MM
definitely provides even heating of the mash and even mixing of the
enzymes throughout the mash.  Given Jack's description, what it does
NOT provide is the ability to walk away for the entire duration of the
mash and be ensured that the temperature would be automatically
maintained.  He mentions having to turn on the burner occasionally,
and while some may want to do this, I would not.  However, with the
stirring going on, the possibility of localized heating and uneven
mash during heat additions are overcome.  What it also does not
provide is the crystal clear wort ready for the kettle that a RIMS
does.  Yes, you can vorluff after mashing and turning off the stirrer,
but that is extra work not necessary with a RIMS.  Again, do you want
to trade simpler construction, for more work on your part at the
mashout?  Up to you.

I have to commend you, Jack, for a very nice simple design that
fulfills a good purpose.  I cannot tell when you "invented" it, but
you are may not be the first.  I have seen pictures of Belgian Lambic
breweries with mash stirrers that must go back 30 or 40 years.  As
well, Don Put published an article in BT a while back showing in
detail how to make a motorized stirrer with SS paddles and I saw his
system at his house a year or more before the article.

But all that aside, the MixMasher will never relegate RIMS to the
museum.  There will always be people like me who are not afraid of
more complicated design implementations when they mean that the
resulting system will take over more of the work during use.  In the
case of RIMS, the tradeoff is automatic temperature control and
crystal clear wort ready for the kettle without manual vorluff.

Each of the systems has its tradeoffs and the brewer must decide.
Both of them have many advantages over strictly manual systems, and
strictly manual systems have advantages over both the MixMasher and
RIMS.

dion


- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164                 Email: hollen at vigra.com
                                             http://www.vigra.com/~hollen
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs  San Diego, California

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 08:26:37 +0000
From: "Thor" <thor at valhallabrewing.com>
Subject: Draught Notice, Jan 98

The Draught Notice January 1998, Volume 21  Issue 1

The Draught Board, an AHA homebrew club of San Leandro, CA is proud to
announce its all new electronic newsletter. Since we are using the 
web to publish the newsletter, we thought it would be nice to share 
it with others in the brewing community on the net. In the premiere 
issue, we have endeavored to write a number of articles that may be 
of a broad  interest to brewers and beer enthusiasts. Some of the 
articles may have a regional perspective but hopefully be of interest 
in any case. 

We hope you enjoy reading the newsletter. Constructive comments are
always welcome.  If your interested in writting an article, feel free 
to contact the webmaster at thor at valhallabrewing.com .

Http://www.valhallabrewing.com/dboard/dbnewsl/t9801a.htm

Some of the items in this month's Draught Notice

Brew Quiz.
Multiple choice quiz to test your brewing knowledge. Script gives a
score at the end and posts it to a list of high scores.

Book review
The Hop Atlas. Published Joh Barth and Sohn. A great little reference
book I got for Christmas. A short review of the high points of the
book, review of the contents and some minor problems with the book.
The review might help you decided if its worthy of a space on your
brewing book shelf.

Beer review
Bryan Gros review a bunch of the Christmas beers that were available.
Informative read.

Brewery Review
Tahoe Mountain Brewery, South Lake Tahoe. A short review of the 1 year
old brewpub in the Horizon casino. A must read for those heading off
to ski in the Sierra Nevada mountains. Beer, food and atmosphere
evaluated with a couple of pictures to show you what its like.

Technical
Need a refill of CO2? Ken Koupal writes an article about getting his
cylinders filled at a local Fire equipment shop. Also information on
testing you CO2 manifold for problems. Part of a two part article that
started with making a cool manifold for CO2 to multiple taps.

THOR
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions of the authors do not necessarily reflect the 
opinions of The Draught Board Homebrew club. In addition, we have no 
affiliation nor stand to profit from any of the reviews or articles 
in the Draught Notice and are only an opinion. Our reason for 
publishing this information on the web is to try and promote 
homebrewing as a hobby as part of our club charter.
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Thor's Stainless brewery  at  http://www.valhallabrewing.com/
AHA club The Draught Board Homebrew Club  at 
   http://www.valhallabrewing.com/dboard/index.htm                  

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 08:41:01 -0800
From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net>
Subject: Mixmasher Review

Thanks to Jack S for taking the time to put together a web page showing
us the mixmasher.  What an amazing contraption!  The information
presented on his web page is a good resource for the HBD community. 
Here are a few observations:  

1)  blade mixing

>the kettle for best mixing action. It is obvious when it is mixing
>well. Mash *gushes* up the side and *whirlpools* around to the middle
>where it gets sucked back down.

This seems like a good recipe for hot side aeration.  How can the wort
be prevented from absorbing oxygen during mashing temps with all the
mash gushing up the sides?  Also looks like the mixing chamber is open
to the air while mashing.  I don't have the references at my fingertips
on HSA but it is a well documented phenomenon.  Anyone have some
references on HSA they could post?

2)  temperature gradient

>Because the mash is continually mixed, a thermometer anywhere in the
>mash will accurately indicate the temperature. A simple dial
>thermometer suspended over the side with a piece of wire is all
>that is needed.

So if you slow the blade down to eliminate the mash gushing and hot side
aeration, you probably end up with a temperature gradient in the mash.
No actual mashing data was presented on the web page so this is just my
own conjecture at this point.  Seems like you will need to add a
variable speed drive to the motor to find the optimum mixing speed.

3)  baby sitting

>Human intervention is required to monitor and adjust the heat source
>but I really doubt that many RIMS users go to a football game after
>setting up a mash. Surely, half the fun of using it must be *watching
>it work*.

A well designed RIMS will not need *continuous* monitoring during the
mash.  I love to sit down, get off my feet, and watch football while I
am mashing with my RIMS.  One time after boosting to 158 F I left the
house to get a coffee at Starbucks.  Came back 40 minutes later and the
mash temp was 158.4 F.  The fun for me is knowing that the RIMS is doing
exactly what I want it to and I don't have to watch it or touch it.

4)  imprecise temperature rests

>I generally can get through a 60 min saccharification step by
>turning off the heat when it gets to the temp I want and turning
>it back on (very low) about half way through. By the time the hour
>is up it is *starting to climb* toward the mashout temp. You can
>fiddle all you want but I find this works well enough for my purposes.

It is alot of fun to use your RIMS and set the exact temp you want to
rest at and not have it budge while you go off and watch your football
game.  Seems like you will continually be trying to add thermal
infusions into your mash to overcome heat losses with the mixermasher.  

5)  comperable expense

>The motor output speed is 30 RPM. As motors are *expensive*, I
>estimated this requirement by timing hand stirring and hooking The
>gear-motor I use was purchased from Granger for about *$90* but if
>you only want to make one, they are available on the surplus market
>for $10 or so.

Seems as if RIMS and the mishmasher have comperable expenses, and both
can be made cheaper using surplus stuff.  Perhaps the mixermash would
end up costing more than RIMS after you buy the motor ($90), fan speed
controls ($25), a decent calibrated thermometer with a thermowell ($60),
and a 10 gallon SS Polarware mash mixing chamber ($160).  Of course,
this assumes you buy new, surplus would be lower.

In summary Jack S has generated a good solution to eliminating the
problem of "stirring until your arm falls off".  This brewing gadget
will be a good addition for some brewers.  In my opinion, this
system will not produce the same level of mash process control as RIMS
for the reasons listed above.  I don't see the mixmasher replacing RIMS
anytime soon the way it is presented now, and I will not be tossing my
RSMS to go build a maxmixer.  For me the process control is one of two
things that makes beer making fun, the other of course is beer drinking
:>).  Lets hear more from some of the HBD RIMS experts: Dion, C.D.,
Evan, Keith, etc.  Thanks again to Jack S for sharing this info with us. 

Kyle Druey
RSMSing in Bakersfield, CA

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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 14:43:09 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Food Grade.

Brewsters:

Curt Sutliff says:
 =

> In Charlie P's book he discusses assembling a "zapap" lauter tun from
> two "food grade" five gallon buckets.  How does one tell if one of thes=
e
> ubiquitous white pails is actually "food grade" as they all seem to be
> made of HDPE with various markings molded into their bottoms.

I got mine by going to a local caterer and asked him to give me a couple =
of
those 3-5 (?) gallon food vessels they use for potato salad and such at a=

party and then throw away.  I returned some of the first brew as a thank
you. BTW a soldering iron makes a much more rapid method of getting holes=

in the bottom, with smooth sided holes a real plus, than a drill.  My fir=
st
time around I even used a soldering *gun* and made great big holes which
worked fine, since it is the bed, not the holes which do the filtering. I=
f
you have a gun, wrap a large piece of copper wire, like house wiring
diameter, ( now where is Kyle Drury's table of wire diameters?) to the en=
d
and use that to make smaller holes.  Larger holes do take longer to get
clear and I typically recycled a gallon of wort before clearing.  OTOH, I=

rarely had a stuck sparge with this system as I recall.  Another problem
with this system is the large holdup of wort in the bottom ( about 1/2
gallon) which spreads out the cloudiness. To reduce this holdup volume an=
d
maintain your sparge temperature, seriously consider a cooler set up with=
 a
coil in the bottom leading to the outlet as a viable option. A hacksaw wi=
ll
do a good job in slicing the tubing. Any soldering should be with non-lea=
d,
silver solder. Lead the wort to the bottom of receiving vessel with a hos=
e
stuck onto the drain valve to minimize HSA =


Without being too cavalier, if it is white polyethylene you can probably
use it.  Most white buckets of HDPE are colored with calcium salts or mos=
t
likely TiO2 which are both food safe.  Stay away from re-cycled plastic a=
nd
things other than polyethylene as they may contain some monomer which can=

taste bad or even be harmful.   After a hot, strong bleach rinse followin=
g
a soapy detergent wash, rinse with very hot water and fill it with very h=
ot
water and allow it to cool. If the water has a bad taste, relative to a
sample of hot water you let cool in a glass at the same time, don't use t=
he
container. =


In general, it is good advice to use plastics rated for food use, like
coolers and food containers.

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 15:15:13 -0500
From: GTKF at softhome.net
Subject: Re Mixmasher

Does any one remember the AutoMash? 

Developed by a California Co. It was marketed before RIMS. It had a
motorized mixer on the lid. It also had neat computer controls to maintain
temperature with a double boiler?

Seems like Jack simplified/adapted this idea.

Anyone know if the AutoMash is still made?

Fred S

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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:54:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Heiner Lieth <lieth at telis.org>
Subject: DONT take JS off / Web information content

In HBD #2600 Evan Kraus <ekraus at avana.net> shouted re:Schmidling take him
off the digest.

>All he uses this is for his own benefit !!!!

Oh.  Are we not allowed to use this forum for our own benefit (I don't
recall reading that in the HBD rules)?  As a homebrewer I benefit all the
time. Personally I wish that every professional in brewing and its allied
industries would attempt to benefit here the way that Mr Schmidling does. 

>It is a great sales tool for him !!!!

The rules of this forum are that you are not allowed to advertise here.
There are no rules against using this forum as a sales tool.  

We all "know" advertisement when we see it; perhaps your definition is
different from mine, but I haven't seen any ads here.  Quite frankly I've
marveled at the restraint of so many on this forum who I know are in the
business as professional brewers/vendors/suppliers/shop-owners etc.

I think this forum is (and should be) a great sales tool for anyone that
makes a great product. If the product is merely good or inferior then it
gets quick critical review here from anyone that wants to speak out.
Drawing attention to a product in the HBD is very dangerous for a company
because even "faint praise" can hurt you here. 

Most of us HBDers look for that sort of critical information. Let's not shut
it out.

>Take him off this forum !!!!!!
>GET RID OF HIM !!!!!!

The best way for you to avoid reading JS's stuff is to PgDn when you see his
name. The next best way is to unsubscribe yourself (although I wouldn't
recommen it).  JS is a regular contributors here that provides useful
information; removing him from the HBD would be a mistake.

Disclaimer: Personally I have no affiliation with Schmidling or his company
or his suppliers. I don't know him or necessarily agree with him.  I'm also
pretty sure I have none of his products, but might aquire some in the
future.  I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV.
 
- --------------

I do however, have some experience with "information" on the Internet,
particularly web pages and e-mail discussion groups. I think that perhaps
some folks reading the HBD have the mistaken impression that what is
available to be read here is fact.  

Information on the web must generally be treated as unsubstantiated
information.  For every bit of information you find there you must treat it
like fiction until you can prove to yourself, based on the credentials of
the author or the sponsor of the information, that the information has the
characteristics you seek (Is it correct, unbiased, true, up-to-date, ...?).
This is particularly important if you intend to apply the information.  But
note: the burden of using web-based information is on the reader/user, not
the author.  

The burden of the author is to maintain her/his credibility. You might
assume that every author takes this burden as a serious responsibility, but
you would be mistaken.

So if a recovering alcoholic, or anyone else for that matter, browses the
HBD (for whatever reason) and finds some information there, and choses to
verify its credibility by using him/herself as a guinea pig, then that is
not the fault of any author on the web (even if it is deliberate
misinformation).

Dealing with information credibiilty appears to be an age-old problem, not
limited to the internet. Graham Wheeler in the same HBD writes
"Unfortunately, Pytheus was laughed at because his people did not believe
his fanciful stories of the congealed sea (pack-ice), chunks of solid sea
bigger than his ship (icebergs), or that the sun never set in the far north,
among many other discoveries that his Mediterranean contempories found
laughable."  I guess if they had had the internet back then, then someone
would want Pythues taken off-line to prevent others from the danger of
running their ships off the edge of the earth.

Heiner Lieth.


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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 18:05:30 -0400
From: "David L. Thomson" <dlt at ici.net>
Subject: Lable Making Software

Hello fellow beer lovers,
I am looking for a Computer program that make lables for my bottles.. I
have windows 95 . I would appreciate any suggestions be they freeware
web sites or purchased from a software company.
Thanks
Dave Thomson

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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 14:58:46 -0800
From: Dave Hopf <ibis at cnw.com>
Subject: Kettle Mashing

I have been kettle mashing for some time and have come up with a good
method that eliminates the tedium usually involved with the simpler
mashing systems. You don't need expensive equipment to make good beer -
the benefit of expensive equipment is a more controlled process that
hopefully involves less labor.
 
Keep in mind that the more equipment that you use, the more items you
have to clean, maintain, and store. Complex brewing setups often contain
hard-to-clean areas that threaten the quality of your beer - even 
mashing is subject to infections, according to Noonan.

When the only equipment involved is a plastic bucket, a slotted copper
manifold, and a stainless steel brew pot, the complex process of all
grain brewing is greatly simplified allowing the brewer to concentrate
on details that make better beer instead of the usual barrage of
mechanical details and refinements.

Kettle mashing can produce beer of equal quality to any other method of
mashing when one is willing to adapt to it - as opposed to insisting
that the method adapt to one's particular brewing ideology and style.

The oft repeated concern that kettle mashing is labor intensive is not
necessarily true when properly implemented. While it is not an automated
process that allows one to flip a switch and come back 3 hours later to
cast the yeast, it does not require your constant attention either. I
usually check in on the process every 15 or 20 minutes while doing
something more entertaining in the meantime. 

The key to kettle mashing is a proper manifold that will fit into your
brew pot and allow it to act as a mash and lauter tun. I use a device
made from half inch copper pipe that is conceptually a racking cane
attached to a slotted octagon manifold. This device fits into the brew
pot and the racking cane portion allows the wort to be siphoned from the
grain bed. I chose this device over the more common false bottom/drain
valve arrangement because I don't like to cobber up a good brew pot with
shutoff valve appendages.

To kettle mash, start with 2 gallons of hot water and add grain and
additional water as needed. The goal is to create a mash that is as
stiff as practical yet can be easily stirred. The ideal mash will have
perhaps a half inch of liquid on top of the grain when you let it
settle.

Put the brew pot on the stove and heat it to 140F, stirring occasionally
so as not to scorch the kettle. Then let the mash rest for an hour,
stirring occasionally. If the temperature drops more than a couple of
degrees, apply heat as needed. 

After an hour or so, insert the manifold, start the siphon (careful not
to burn your mouth) and drain the wort into the plastic bucket.
Depending on your malted grain, you may want to throttle the flow so
that the suction does not cause the grain bed to compress. When the
liquid begins to flow crystal clear, dump the cloudy wort back into the
brew pot so that the final liquid you collect is clear.

While it is draining, go do something more interesting. After all the
liquid has drained from the brew pot, add more hot water to the grain so
that it can be easily stirred and bring the grain to a boil. How long
you boil is up to you - I have had no problems or off flavors boiling
for 15 minutes. Turn off the heat, restart the siphon, but recycle the
siphoned liquid back to the brew pot until it is brilliantly clear
before collecting it in the plastic bucket with the original drainings.
Sparge with additional hot water. It is important to understand that the
first draining contains active enzymes while the second drainings
contain a significant amount of starch that was freed by boiling. By
combining the two drainings, you will achieve complete starch conversion
simply by letting the liquid in the bucket set for a half hour or so.
Use Iodine to verify complete starch conversion, and adjust the specific
gravity by adding water as needed. 

Now, dump the spent grain from your brew pot, wash it out, dump your
fresh wort into it, and put it back on the stove to begin the
boiling/hopping process which I won't bother describing.. 

I provided these instructions to communicate a concept only - If you use
different mashing temperatures or are predisposed not to boil the grain,
don't have a cow, man. The instructions are only an example on how to
kettle mash, not to tout incidental techniques.

Dave

- -- 
MAILTO:ibis at cnw.com
http://www.cnw.com/~ibis
01001001010000100100100101010011

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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 16:07:11 -0800
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Re: MIXMASHER vs RIMS 



> As promised, I have put together a web page describing the MIXMASHER.
<snip>
> I would prefer public comments on the HBD to save having to repeat
> stuff ad nausiam in email.
> 
> js

OK, you asked for it...

On the page is: 

"Mashing in an inslulated cooler requires no stirring but you are
stuck with one mash temperature and complicated step mashing/resting
is impossible."

Really?  Don't you think you might have gone just a little over the
top with this statement?  From one who mashes in an insulated cooler
(aka Gott/Rubbermaid) - doing so requires stirring, and you can have
as complicated a step program as you'd like.  In fact, there's no
reason I couldn't simply ADD your mixi-mashie to my insulated tun. I
wouldn't want to, but I could.  How this stirring affects the beer
vs. how a RIMS pump would I'll leave to others who have more
patience. 


SM
(3 blocks from the Gordon Biersch yuppie brewpub)



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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:07:26 -0700
From: "Bret A. Schuhmacher" <bas at healthcare.com>
Subject: What is this hop?

Hey homebrewers,

I've got some hops in my freezer that I didn't label... Is there any
test I can perform at home that will at least tell me the Alpha
content?  There's probably nothing that'll help me figure out their
real type (cascade, perles, centennial, whatever), but if I at least
knew what their alpha content was they wouldn't be a total waste.

Thanks for any tips on classifying these things.

Rgds,

Bret
Bad Dog Brewery
Montrose, CO

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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:00:44 EST
From: BernardCh <BernardCh at aol.com>
Subject: Call (PLEAD) for Judges, 1998 Hail to Ale

The Music City Brewers, Nashville, Tennessee's AHA registered homebrew club is
proud to announce that they are the host club for the 1998 Hail to Ale, AHA
Club Only Competition, to be held Saturday, January 31, 1998 at Boscos
Nashville Brewing Company in Nashville, Tennessee.

This is a call, (PLEAD actually) for JUDGES as well as stewards for this
event!

The 1998 Hail to Ale competition features the Classic English Pale Ale (5-a),
India Pale Ale (5-b), American Pale Ale (6-a), American Amber Ale (6-b), and
American Wheat (6-c) styles.  

Because these are the best beers the respective clubs have to offer, the
quality of beers is expected to be very high.

BJCP experience points will be awarded and lunch will be provided for judges
and stewards.

While no formal pub crawl is planned for the weekend, following the BOS
competition members of the Music City Brewers will be available to lead an
informal pub crawl featuring stops at Boscos, Blackstone, Big River, Market
Street, and other establishments in the Nashville area.

If you are interested in judging, please email me at BernardCh at aol.com for
further details.

Note to BJCP judges in the Mid-South:  If you recieved an invitation to judge
and have tried to contact me at the evening number, please use the number in
the letterhead or the daytime telephone number.  The few brain cells I had
left when I began homebrewing have apparently been destroyed.  The evening
telephone number in the body of the invitation is wrong.  Sorry for the
inconvenience.

Those of you that have already indicated you will be attending will receive an
information packet in mid Janaury.

Chuck
BernardCh at aol.com
Music City Brewers, Nashville TN - Music City USA
32.974 x 10E6 inches south by west of the center of the HB Universe

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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 01:05:26 PST
From: "Gregg Soh" <greggos at hotmail.com>
Subject: Another Slow/Non Starter

Dear All,
I'm having the well known beginner's lagged fermentation. There's lots 
of advice about how I should warm it up a bit and let it start and 
slowly bring it down again, but it's been 72hrs since I pitched the 
yeast. I aerated my cooled wort, rehydrated my dry Yeastlab Bavarian 
Lager yeast at 85F and then when the wort and yeast were about 75F 
pitched it (I used two packets of yeast) and then brought it down real 
slow to 65F hoping for some activity, after which I would have brought 
it down to lower Lager temps. It's still at 65F and all I have is a 
thick yeastbed and small clumps of yeast floating on the surface and no 
vigorous bubbling in the airlock to speak of. So what do you think? 
Should I dump the lot and start again?

Gregg

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 11:13:40 -0500
From: "Kevin W. Aylor" <kwa2r at removeavery.med.virginia.edu>
Subject: WTB: Cheap chrome beer taps

I'm looking for a place to buy cheap chrome beer taps.  Any suggestions?


Thanks 

Kevin
- ----------
Remove "remove" from address to reply.


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---