---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Anton's Lame Stout (Loren Crow)
  RE: Heating-RIMS (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Celis & Hoegaarden Grand Cru's (STEPHEN G STROUD)
  RE: .08 vs .10 (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Brabant Ale Yeast ("Tomusiak, Mark")
  Sanitizer Costs... (Mark Weaver)
  Yeasty Spaten (Mark Weaver)
  Weizen: protein rests and clarity ("Riedel, Dave")
  Open Fermentation ("Eric Schoville")
  Scum, Party Pigs (feldman)
  April Fools Brewing Page ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Re: Picnic Cooler & Smack Pak Split? ("Robert J. Waddell")
  Starter Gravity? (Fred Johnson)
  Chicago malt sources? (Rick Dial)
  homebrew at the Houston County Fair ("Ann Emery")
  New Briess malts (Matthew Arnold)
  Keg Stratification / Psychedelic Brew (Kyle Druey)
  Thin tasting beer ("Hans E. Hansen")
  storing yeast under beer (John Bowerman)
  homebrew cooking - California-cajun steamed mussels (smurman)
  Wine & Brew By You ("JBek")
  H2S / FWH / .08 (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Old Peculier (oberlbk)
  DMS / Hop shoots (George_De_Piro)
  The .08 Chronicles (Paul Ward)
  Soured stout ("David R. Burley")
  Big Brew '98/Horticulture/Home grown adjuncts ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
  RE: Racking Tube and Plastic Hose Water Spots (LaBorde, Ronald)
  RE: Wine & Brew comment (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Local Homebrew Stores (Herbert Bresler)
  RE: No Hands HLT and Parallel Serial Brewing (LaBorde, Ronald)




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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:08:46 -0500 (EST)
From: lorencrow at earthling.net (Loren Crow)
Subject: Anton's Lame Stout

On 3/31/98, Anton SchoenBacher wrote:
>     This has never ever happened to me before, does
>     anybody have some ideas as to why I got such crappy
>     conversion ?

My guess is that it's not bad conversion, but an inadequate sparge. Rye
makes for a very dextrinous wort, making the sugars more difficult to rinse
off the grain. Too, the mash sounds like a pretty thick one (11.25# of
grain in 3 gals of water; 3.75 or 4 gals would have been better), which can
affect conversion, but more importantly does not sufficiently thin out the
wort. So I bet you left a lot of sugars on the grain when you sparged.

Cheers!
Loren


==============================================================
# Loren D. Crow, Ph.D.     ++ Office Phone:  (903) 927-3219  #
# Department of Religion   ++          Fax:  (903) 938-8100  #
# Wiley College            ++                                #
# 711 Wiley Avenue         ++ Email: lorencrow at earthling.net #
# Marshall, TX  75670      ++                                #
==============================================================

The unexamined life is not worth living.
                           - Socrates




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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:25:50 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Heating-RIMS

>From: Fredrik Hjalmarson <fredrik at atri.curtin.edu.au>

>Now, If I use a RIMS with a heater chamber with
>a 2500W low watt density element. Shouldn't it be possible to heat all
>dough-in water and sparge water with that element?

Hi, and welcome to the glorious world of electric heating.  The propane
industry and uncle Sam have rewarded their loyal followers by rendering
their investment in propane tanks obsolete.  I can't think of a better
way to return the favor.

If you use the 2500W element as you suggest, by circulating (by the way,
can anyone explain the difference between circulating and
recirculating),  I guess you can increase the temperature of all the
water until the total temperature loss equals 2500W.  If you have good
insulating in the plumbing, and may need some for the tuns, then maybe
2500W will be adequate.  However,  I think you will be spending a lot of
time waiting for the temperature to rise to your target.

Things would go along a lot faster with a 4500W element.  I use 4500W,
but not in a heating chamber - the element is in the HLT.   I can bring
13 or so gallons to 170F in about 15 or 20 minutes.   From this, you
will need to estimate if your 2500W plus any losses in the heating
chamber and plumbing will suffice.

>Is there any problems to use full power (2500W) when heating the water?
>Suppose I don't need to worry about scorching of the water...

Nah, I boil wort and have no scorching with 4500W!!!!!  The element is
in the boiler.

>That's because if I
>have a 10A limit that gives me 2400W in a 240V system. So, I can't use
>both heaters at the same time...By the way, is 2400W (wort boiler)
>enough to boil a 6.5 gal (24.6l) batch?

I believe you about the 10A limit, but I cannot figure out why it is a
10A limit.  Any wiring, even 14 gauge will be able to make code for 15A,
so what are you using for your 240 circuit?  Telephone wire :>)  ???

FYI, I was able to use the 4500W element on a 240V 15A circuit, but not
at full power.  I have a controller using 555 timers with solid state
relays feeding the element.  If I run it at about 90% on,  the 15A SB
fuses hold.  This is enough to boil 13 gallons.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:51:00 -0500
From: STROUDS at cliffy.polaroid.com (STEPHEN G STROUD)
Subject: Celis & Hoegaarden Grand Cru's

IN HBD 2675, Bill Coleman ( Malty Dog) sez:

>  The Belgian term "Grand Cru" is a little misleading.  It's kind of 
>  the Belgian equivalent of "Super Premium." It isn't really a  style 
>  name at all; it basically means the best or strongest product of 
>  the  brewery. I'm sure Michael was thinking of Celis Grand Cru or 
>  Hoegarden  Grand Cru, which are, indeed strong White ales.


While I agree about the 'Grand Cru' term, I think that you are wrong about
either Celis _or_ Hoegaarden Grand Cru's being white ales.  Both are spiced,
yes, but neither contains wheat.  

For references, see Jackson's Pocket Guide (Hoegaarden Grand Cru.....'made
exclusively from barleymalt' and  Celis Grand Cru...'a counterpart to Hoegaarden
GC') and the Celis web page ('Grand Cru....from a mixture of pale malts' [no
mention of wheat).

Steve Stroud
**********
work: strouds at polaroid.com
home: strouds at gis.net
**********



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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:52:01 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: .08 vs .10

>From: Wayne_Kozun at otpp.com

>Will everybody just shut up about the new drunk driving law 

Awh, Wayne, don't you know that when I am told to shut up I just want to
say more. 

The thing about the constricting proposed laws is that it is an
incremental loss of personal freedom.  It is sad indeed that so many
contemporary nitwits give up their freedoms so cavalierly, when others
have fought wars, given their lives, and endured misery to slowly gain
freedom and banish oppression.

What would life be like if you had little or no choice?  Do you dismay
at the blandness of and loss of character of many cities,  all the chain
stores, all the same roads,  the same painted signs, same logos.  If you
did not know where you were located, it would be hard to know by the
sameness, the vapid blandness.

Let the bullies have their way and everyone's whole existence will
someday be this way.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:18:35 -0800
From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak at amgen.com>
Subject: Brabant Ale Yeast

Greetings HBD'rs...once again, I find myself pondering the brewing of a
Belgian or "Brabant style" pale ale, in the style of Special Palm,
Op-Ale or DeKoninck.  The hops I've got figured, the malt I've got
figured, but the yeast - that is the question.  I can't decide whether
to use a typical estery Belgian ale yeast, or something cleaner and more
neutral like a German alt yeast.  It's been quite a while since I've
been able to try the real thing, so it's hard to make a choice from my
foggy memory of the flavor profile.  Any ideas out there?  Anyone who
has been lucky enough to try these beers on their home turf recently,
and cares to venture a guess on yeast type?  I've tried the DeKoninck
strain from Yeast Culture Kit Co, with fairly undrinkable results -
whether this was the yeast, my sterile technique or my brewing procedure
I don't know, but I don't think I'll try it again.  Any information or
wild speculation would be appreciated, 

Mark Tomusiak
Boulder, Colorado


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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:25:58 -0500
From: Mark Weaver <HeadBrewer at eci.com>
Subject: Sanitizer Costs...

Hi all

I know someone was talking along this same thread before, but I recently
noticed some postings in the  AHA forum... people seem to be bitching
and moaning about the cost of sanitizer. UGH! Give me a break! The cost
per use of a "name brand" quality sanitizer is pennies when you get down
to actually using it... Considering that people spend more money on
malt, hops, yeast, water analysis, burners, and kettles, the 50cents one
spends per use on sanitizers is nothing.

Stop whining and fork over the $5.00 for the iodosphor (or whatever you
happen to use, no endorsements here).

Prost!
Mark
- --
Mark Weaver - Brewer on the Loose
HeadBrewer at eci.com
75'02 / 72tii
"No, I don't brew heads....."
http://markweaver.com2tom.com/home.html



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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:32:12 -0500
From: Mark Weaver <HeadBrewer at eci.com>
Subject: Yeasty Spaten

Hello all:

Just wanted to get everyone's opinion on something....

I recently visited the Redding Roadhouse here in CT. I ordered a Spaten.

When it arrived I noticed a distinct and very prevelant lager yeast
aroma
(you'll have to pardon me, I can't for the life of me remember right now

exactly what in lager yeast creates that). Upon tasting it, it was like
drinking
lager yeast slurry out of the bottom of a Ferm., although the beer was
perfectly
clear... (I did that at Cardinal when I worked there, totally by
mistake, I was
spraying out a 40bbl fermenter, and hit the stand pipe just right, the
yeast/water
went right out the manway and all over my face... Pretty funny at the
time) Seeing
as I "think" that Spaten may filter their kegged beer (maybe not?) I
could only
presume that the beer got REALLY hot... As a test, I returned to the
R.R. to
try the Spaten again, no intense yeasty aroma or flavour, just a slight
hint of
one like there should be.... Anyone have any ideas?

Prost!
Mark
- --
Mark Weaver - Brewer on the Loose
HeadBrewer at eci.com
75'02 / 72tii
"No, I don't brew heads....."
http://markweaver.com2tom.com/home.html



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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:46:14 -0800
From: "Riedel, Dave" <RiedelD at dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
Subject: Weizen: protein rests and clarity

Amidst the great protein rest debate, we are still seeing the
occasional post on "What mash schedule for a weizen?"
Here's a datapoint from my recent experience with a
Bavarian Weizen.

Grain Bill:  (Canadian Malting)	60% wheat malt
				40% barley malt

20 mins  at  115-112 F	(attempt to increase ferulic acid)
8 min rise to 123 F	
10 min  at  123 F		(true protein rest, albeit short)
9 min rise to 150-151 F
60 min  at  150 F		(sacc. rest to conversion)

The sparge and runoff went smoothly (no sticking)- 17 min
recirc, 90 min sparge.  The collected wort was boiled for 90 
mins with a 1/2 tsp addition of Irish moss at 15 mins to go.  
The wort was whirlpooled and runout via a copper manifold 
at the perimeter of my converted-keg bolier with the 2 oz of 
whole hops acting as a filter bed.

SG  1.050
FG  1.013
Bottle conditioned to approx. 3.3 volumes of CO2.

The resulting beer, despite 40% wheat, is the CLEAREST
beer I've ever made.  The head retention is very low for a
wheat beer, but it's not unacceptable- sort of like a typical
continental lager.  The beer spent nearly 45 mins in the
protein degrading range.  It seems (at least for this grain
bill) that this was an excessive amount of time, as I was 
aiming for a cloudy, big-head weizen.

I'm tempted to conclude (for this batch) that the low temp
rests resulted in my very clear product.  However, the 90
minute boil is the longest I've ever done and the Irish Moss
was a first for me (though I've used it since).  If Kunze, via
Gerorge dePiro, is correct when he says protein rests may
lead to *more* haze, then where was it in my case?

I speculate that it was eliminated during the recirc phase.
I noted lots of break material in a recent batch using DWC
pilsner malt with a short protein rest.  Perhaps careful
recirc and runoff procedures (maybe coupled with a brief
protein rest) play a larger part in haze reduction than the
actual mash schedule itself.  Comments?

cheers,
Dave Riedel
Victoria, BC, Canada



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Date: 31 Mar 98 12:24:45 -0800
From: "Eric Schoville" <ESCHOVIL at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Open Fermentation

In response to the open fermentation questionnaire:

1.  What type of container do you use (SS, plastic, glass, other) 
and how big?

I use a converted 15g SS keg.  To convert it, I cut out a circle 
that is the right size for a stock pot lid.  See my web page below 
for more info on keg conversion, fermenters, etc.

Do you have any type of drain valve?  No

2.  Is there any special care needed for the fermenter?

There is no special care needed for the fermenter.  In fact, it is
much simpler to care for than my carboys, because I can reach in 
and scrub to my hearts content.  To sterilize, I either use iodophor 
or steam by putting a small amount of water in it, putting the 
lid on and then heating on my three tier.

The only disadvantage is that 12 gallons of beer in a SS keg is 
heavy!  Of course with my Arnold Schwartzeneggeresque physique 
it poses no problem, but for all of you girly men out there, you 
might need some help!  Seriously, it takes two to lift this thing 
into my chest freezer when it is full.

3.  The Kraeusen head is supposed to provide a protective layer 
but does anyone cover the fermenter?  If so, with what, when, 
and for how long?

I cover the fermenter with a stock pot lid.  There are no gaps, but 
it is definitely not airtight.  Depending on the OG of the wort, 
I leave the wort in the fermenter for 5 to 10 days.  After the 
kraeusen has subsided, I rack to closed secondaries (glass) for 
secondary fermentation.  I used to use Mr. Varady's garbage bag 
method out of initial paranoia, but have since found it to be 
unnecessary.

4.  Where do you ferment?  I guess I mean how clean of an area 
does one need to be successful?

I have fermented in my garage with no problem at all.  My garage 
is not filthy, because I hose it down during every brew session, 
but it certainly is not super clean either.

5.  Do you skim the dirty head?  Nope.

6.  Do you crop the yeast?  

No, but I do often reuse the primary by racking the new wort 
on top of the yeast cake of the previous batch.  This works 
really well.   I have done about three batches with the same 
yeast with no noticeable ill effects and could probably do 
more, but brewing four or five ten gallon batches in a row 
poses some logisticalproblems with fermenters.

7.  Are there any yeast strains that seem to be better suited 
to open fermentation?

I have used Wyeast 1968, 1335, 3056, and 2278 off the top 
of my head.  All seemed to work well.  The 3056 really gave 
me some nice esters in my dunkelweizen, but I don't know if 
open fermentation contributed to this or not, because I did 
not do a side to side comparison.  (Do I see an experiment
forming?)  The 1335 performed admirably; I really like this 
yeast.  For yeasts like 1968 that may/may not require 
additional agitation, it is really easyto sanitize a SS spoon 
and gently lift the yeast cake off the bottom of the fermenter 
during fermentation.

8.  Do you rack the beer to a secondary?  If so, when?  

See Q 3.

My opinion on a converted keg as an open fermenter is that it is 
superior to closed fermenters with blow off tubes because it 
costs less per gallon of capacity and is very easy to clean and 
sanitize.  It can also handle large batches.  

Thanks,

Eric Schoville in Flower Mound, TX
	drinking good beer in Oakland, CA

http://home1.gte.net/rschovil/beer/3tier.html
Minor updates were made last week.




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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:03:51 -0500
From: feldman at lexmark.com
Subject: Scum, Party Pigs


Brian notices a scum forming in his bottles which he used Iodophor to
santize.  I also have witnessed this.  At first I thought it may have been
an infection.  Beer tastes fine with no overcarbonation.  I ruled out the
infection.  I am noticing something that almost looks like a film on top of
the beer in the bottles.  It doesn't look nice, but I would also like to
know what it is.  I plan to bottle a porter some time this week.  I will
sanitize my bottles in the following manner.  1/3 Iodophor, 1/3 Iodophor
with pre-boiled water rinse and 1/3 of the bottles with a bleach solution
and a pre-boiled water rinse.  I will report back with results to find out
if the "film" appears in this batch.

Also a note on the Party Pig To Go package I posted about.  It turns out
after looking at the Pig in a box it has a crimped metal piece holding it
together.  After buying a replacement part it does not seem to be a good
deal to me especially because I already have kegs, but thanks to the
responses I got I did not waste my money on the Pig in the Box.  Thanks.

Bobby
B.O.C.K. Member
(Brewers of Central Kentucky)




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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:14:05
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: April Fools Brewing Page

Looking for a way to oxygenate and chill your wort *really* fast and at the
same time?  Check out the annual homebrewers' April Fool Page at:
http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/moocow.htm

Enjoy!



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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:14:15 -0700
From: "Robert J. Waddell" <rjw at dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: Picnic Cooler & Smack Pak Split?




 taylorf at fcis.com (Forrest Taylor) asks:
> Subject: Picnic Cooler
> 
>I would love to have a double picnic cooler to serve my corney kegged beer
in the summer. Unfortunately I could not afford it and the divorce my wife
would serve me with if I purchased it. Does anyone have a parts list for a
homemade picnic cooler? I was thinking about using copper coils and cobra
head taps to save money. How do you clean it?
>
I think Forrest is talking about a "Jockey Box".  Superior Products has all
of the components available for sale individualy.  Their URL is:
www.superprod.com
Rapids Wholesale Equip. Co. also carries the componants and their URL is:
www.4rapid1.com
They both sell beer line cleaner, too.

On to my inquiry:  I bought a smack pack of the #3068 Wyeast last week and
smacked it on thursday.  It was dated 2/28 so I figured it would take
several days to swell.  The next day it was swelled up tighter than a drum
head.  I brewed on Saturday, and when I went to pitch, it had split a seam
on the side.  This was the first time that I've used the new XL size packs,
and it started the batch in 12 hours without using a starter.  I oxygenated
with pure O2 and I've read that I should get a longer lag time, but a
higher population because of the saturation.  Has anyone else had a smack
pack split?  I went ahead and pitched it because of the CO2 escaping should
have kept any beasties out.

RJW

                      I *L*O*V*E* my [Pico] system.  'Cept for that
                      gonging noise it makes when my wife throws it
                      off the bed at night.
                      Women...
                                         --Pat Babcock

          *** It's never too late to have a happy childhood!  ***
********************************************************************
RJW at dimensional.com      / Opinions expressed are usually my own but
Robert J. Waddell       / perhaps shared.     ICQ #7136012
Owner & Brewmaster: Barchenspeider Brew-Haus   Longmont, Colorado
********************************************************************
                    (4,592 feet higher than Jeff Renner)


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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:58:17 -0500
From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Starter Gravity?

I have never heard an explanation that made much sense of what the
optimal gravity of a yeast starter  culture should be nor any data to
indicate that the gravity of the starter matters.  If the purpose of the
culture is merely to increase the number of the yeast cells, and the
growth of the yeast occurs before fermentation, then what difference
does it make if the gravity is 1.02 or 1.05 (or whatever).  In other
words, I have never seen the data that indicate that you grow more yeast
in normal gravity starters than in low gravity starters.   So why use
the extra malt for a higher gravity starter?

I know many have said that one should optimally start the yeast at the
same gravity as that of  the wort into which they will be eventually
pitched, but I have never heard a reasonable explanation for why this
matters in yeast growth.  I suspect this is another one of those myths
that are never challenged.  So here's your chance to flame back!

(I know there is such thing as gravity shock, but I thought that
occurred in going from gravity extreme to the other.)
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina





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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:54:46 EST
From: aa8jz at juno.com (Rick Dial)
Subject: Chicago malt sources?

Can any one in the Chicago area recommend a source for malt? (Briess,
Munton, etc.) A good friend makes the 400 plus mile round trip monthly
which is about as often as he stops by for homebrew. In an effort to
relieve his guilt I told him to pick up 100# of malt so as to save the
shipping cost. From my source to West Mi. shipping is about 33% of the
grain bill. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Tigers and Cubs in October.
private e-mail fine
tnx
Rick
aa8jz
Whitehall, Mi.

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]



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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:45:32 -0000
From: "Ann Emery" <annemery at means.net>
Subject: homebrew at the Houston County Fair

An open invitation to homebrewers to compete for the Master of the Malts
award at the Houston county Fair in Caledonia MN.  Fair dates are August
19-23.  Drop a line to P.O. Box 91 Caledonia, MN for more information.



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Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 05:36:14 GMT
From: marnold at netnet.net (Matthew Arnold)
Subject: New Briess malts

Does anyone have any experience using Briess' new Ashburne and Bonlander malts?
According to the specs on their website, they appear to be highly modified
two-row Vienna and Munich malts, respectively.

My question is, has anyone out there used these for making continental beers?
German malts are available to me, but expensive. Belgian malts are only
slightly less expensive. Briess is readily available (I'm only an hour away
from Chilton) and pretty cheap. Of course, if it's vastly inferior, it's not
worth it at any price.

My local brewshop doesn't carry either one yet, but I know they could get it in
a moment's notice. Any thoughts? Someone posted a while back that George Fix
said in "Vienna, Oktoberfest, Maerzen" that using domestic Vienna or Munich was
basically anathema. Would those same comments apply here? I suppose the only
way to know is if the man himself has tested these malts.

Enquiring minds want to know!
  Matt (enquiring a little too much for his own good in Northern WI)


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Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 11:13:38 -0800
From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net>
Subject: Keg Stratification / Psychedelic Brew

HBDers,

I have noticed that when I first start pouring from the keg the beer is
much thicker and meatier than at the end of the keg.  The last gallon or
so is much lighter and thinner than the first gallon.  Seems like
gravity takes effect and pulls the heavier ends (technical term) toward
the bottom to be consumed first.  Funny how gravity does that.  Has
anyone else experienced this or is it just my imagination?

**********

>they now carry "acid malt"...
>Dood! That's, like, malt from the sixties, man! Timothy Leary malts.
>Oooooo! Lookit the colors! Groooooviiiiiiieeeeeeeeeee
 
Fir sher dude, some acid malt wood be bitchin in my hemp beer so I cun
cetch a totally radical buzz.  Wo, time to git vertical, gnarly El Nino
set comin in.  Godda jam, see yu dudes tubin thru the green room...

Jeff "Doobie" Spicolli
Ridgemont High 
Surf Team Captain and Rad Brewer
Huntington Beach, CA


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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 98 22:50:52 
From: "Hans E. Hansen" <hansh at teleport.com>
Subject: Thin tasting beer

Some of my beer batches turn out kinda thin.  I know the usual
causes, but this puzzles me:

	Two batches, the same except for the type of hops.  Batch
1 turned out great, with a carmelly malty flavor, but batch 2 had little flavor.
No off flavors or aromas, mind you, but just very little flavor at all.
The finishing gravity was the same for both (1.012), and the color was
similar.  These were English Bitters, made with Laaglanders dry extract
and substantial crystal malts (2 lbs per 5 gal).  Both used Edme dry yeast.
Technique was the same, although I don't think I get as much goodness
from the crystal with my 30 minute soak as you guys get by including it 
in your 1 hr+ mashes.  Even so, why the difference?


Hans E. Hansen
hansh at teleport.com




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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 06:15:28 -0800
From: John Bowerman <jbowerma at kfalls.net>
Subject: storing yeast under beer

In HBD 2676 Bruce Taber wrote:

> For the past few years I have been storing yeast under beer for
periods of
> up to 9 months without problems.  I have read many opinions that
this is
> impossible....... go figure.

I don't remember the details (OK, I admit it, my mind isn't  ...
uhhh ...) but I seem to recall that within the last few years a
couple hundred year old English wreck was discovered on the bottom
of the English Channel.  Among the cargo was a quantity of beer
sealed with cork and wax.  Researchers were able to revive and
culture dormant yeast cells from the beer.  The point is, given
the environment (cold, dark, thermally stable, etc.) some of the
yeast cells were still viable after a protracted stay in .....
beer.  It just goes to show, as soon as you think you've go Mom
Nature figured out, she pulls an end run on you.  Ain't the old
broad grand?

John Bowerman
Klamath Falls, OR
jbowerma at kfalls.net



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Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 00:00:25 -0800
From: smurman at best.com
Subject: homebrew cooking - California-cajun steamed mussels


It's been a while since I've been able to do some homebrew cooking,
mainly because I couldn't time my trips to the grocery store to
coincide with the delivery of fresh mussels.  Which brings us directly
to the first thing you'll need for this recipe - fresh mussels.
Mussels are like lobsters, in that they are cooked while they're still
alive.  Any mussels that have opened before being cooked should be
discarded.  Your local fish monger should be able to tell you about
the freshness of the mussels.  Don't be afraid to ask.

Mussels are usually cooked with beer in Belgium by steaming them in
gueze.  There are a couple of great pictures of gueze-steamed mussels
in Michael Jackson's Beer Companion.  Unfortunately, most of us don't
have access to large volumes of gueze, and those of us who might,
probably don't want to spare any for cooking.  I used a lemon ale to
steam the mussels, and this worked so well I don't think I'll ever
switch.  If you don't have a tart flavored beer handy, try using an
IPA, or maybe a hoppy pilsener (or pilsner even).

This recipe is (loosely) on a per person basis, so multiply by some
factor depending on how many people you're cooking for,

1/2 - 1 lb. mussels (including shells)
1/4 - 1/2 lb. ground beef, or cajun hot sausage, or linguica, or ????
(if using a sausage, cut it into pieces before cooking)

1/2 - 1 cup diced onion
1/2 - 1 cup diced celery
1/2 - 1 cup diced tomatoes
2-3 diced garlic cloves
2-4 diced *hot* chile peppers (this dish should be a little spicy)

salt 
pepper 
cumin

The mussels may, or may not, have a thin black strip of hair near the
joint which looks like a mustache, but is called a beard.  This needs
to be removed before cooking.  Some fish markets remove it for you.
If it's there, just cut or scrape it off.  The mussels should be
rinsed before cooking (one of the reasons to discard open ones is that
they're usually full of mud).

Cook this in a large pan or shallow pot which has a tight fitting lid.
Cook the meat, vegetables, garlic, and spices over medium heat until
the meat is cooked thoroughly and the veggies turn translucent.  Add
about 1 cup homebrew, and turn up the heat a little.  Throw in the
mussels, and cover.  Steam over medium-high heat for 5-7 minutes.
When you're done, the mussels should be wide open.  Discard any that
haven't opened.  You should also have a fair amount of sauce when
finished.

Serve in a large, shallow pasta bowl, with the meat and veggies flat
on the bottom and the mussels scattered on top.  Pour the juice from
the cooking pot over the top.  Serve with the same beer you steamed
the mussels with (naturally), a bowl for holding the discarded mussel
shells, and a good hearty, crusty bread for soaking up the sauce.  A
good Russian rye or similar bread really works well.

It's a little more work to plan out when to make this dish, but it's
well worth it.  If you like spicy mudbugs, then this is the type of
food for you.

Enjoy

SM (aka cookin' smurman)



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Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:35:33 -0800
From: "JBek" <JBek at mindspring.com>
Subject: Wine & Brew By You

From: JBek <JBek at mindspring.com>
To: post@hbd.org <post@hbd.org>
Subject: Wine & Brew By You
Date: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 12:32 AM

Sorry guy's, but I'm gonna have to go with Al on this one...

Having started homebrewing in late 1996 after a trip to Seattle, I became a
Wine & Brew By You customer for a brief period of time.  I never dealt with
the late Mr. Mctyre, but did run into him several times.  For the most part,
I have dealt with Lewis.

I consider myself an accomplished intermediate brewer.  Having gone through
a brief stint as an extract brewer, I quickly moved on to all grain brewing,
13 gallon boils, and a chest freezer with multiple kegs. My most recent
brew, an Isar Hefeweizen (ala Eric Warner; author German Wheat Beer) came
out fantastic.   Wine & Brew By You was not the result of this growth.  The
internet, homebrew webpages, brewing books, and bulletin boards like this
are to blame.  :)

My first homebrew kit was, however, from WBBY and Lewis sold it to me.  And
yes, I did get the corn sugar answers, I was recommended to use dry yeast,
and dme wasn't good because it clumps when you add it to water.  Lewis also
told me that All grain was more of pain than it was worth.   When I insisted
on buying grain, I was given old grain.  (It doesn't move very well if your
not trying to sell it).

As my knowledge grew, I learned that liquid yeast is better, a starter is
preferential, a dme is good, and of course corn sugar is not.  Eventually, I
moved on to a Ft. Lauderdale area brew shop ( a 40 mile drive) for my
supplies and Lynne, of course, at St. Pats.  The advice I received from the
latter two was worlds apart from that I received at WBBY.

>From time to time I did pop into WBBY to check up on things and taste a
sample or two.  Not because I wanted Lewis' advice, not because they had
fresh ingredients (they never have since I've been brewing anyway), but
because Lewis is a funny guy.  Prior to my move to California 8 months ago,
I was a member of MASH (Miami Area Society of Homebrewers) and Lewis was as
well.  Mr. McTyre had passed away 6 month's prior and his daughter had taken
control of the store.  I do think that Lewis was largely influenced by old
Craig and alot of the advice I received from Lewis was based on this
influence.  But,  you can't fight the tide of progress.  As time goes on and
homebrewing becomes more science than conjecture, homebrew shops like WBBY
either fade away or progress forward.  I think Lewis at WBBY is attempting
the latter.  He is a nice guy and even though I didn't get great prices or
great advice during the time when I really needed it, they were there and I
think there trying to improve.  So, let's give  Lewis a chance to turn
things around and put this one to bed.

By the way, the S. Florida brewing scene has nothing on Northern California.
You guy's have alot of catching up to do!
Hey Darryl, if your out there:  What's up!?!

And by the way, someone please answer Lewis' yeast question.

John




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Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 01:03:09 -0800
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at stanford.edu>
Subject: H2S / FWH / .08

I have an alt that has a large amount of H2S in it.  I fermented it
at 58F for 5 days, then transferred and moved it slowly down to 42F.
It has been there for about 2 weeks now and the H2S doesn't seem
to be decreasing (no more scrubbing going on I guess).

The yeast is the alt yeast from Head Start, which seems to throw
a lot of H2S but otherwise seems like a nice yeast, if a bit clean
ester-wise (maybe something for you warm temperature "lager" brewers).

Can anyone suggest a remedy?  I'm thinking of kegging it and doing
several cycles of carbonate/purge.

BTW FWH works great with this style (I used all Spalt for 55IBU
with half FWH and half at 60').
==================================
To anyone who thinks that the .08 movement is not neoprohibitionist,
I ask you to consider that it is legal to drive and talk on the
phone, drive and shave, drive after being awake for 36 hours straight,
or just plain drive even though you are a terrible driver, but if
you have concentration X of EtOH in your blood you are a lawbreaker
no matter how good your driving is in that state.  That being said,
as a 170 pound person supposedly I would need to have about 3 drinks
in less than 2 hours to be over .08 and I know I would hesitate to
drive in that state.
- -- 
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb


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Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:13:12 -0500
From: oberlbk at NU.COM
Subject: Old Peculier


A friend of mine recently asked me if it would be possible to duplicate Old
Peculier.  I have been scanning the net and looking through tons of books
to find huge discrepancies with this beer.  One book claims that it is a
brown ale, the next and old ale, the next a strong ale, and the next a
scotch ale.  So, I am nowhere near coming up with a recipe.  First, does
anyone know what style of beer Old Peculier really is?  Secondly, does
anyone know of an extract recipe to duplicate this beer?

Brent Oberlin
oberlbk at nu.com




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Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:55:57 -0800
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com
Subject: DMS / Hop shoots

     Hi all,
     

     Al K. is indeed correct; DMS can be produced and reduced during 

     fermentation and aging, but to a much smaller degree than inadequate
 

     boiling/slow cooling can cause it.
     

     I have a question:  I've read that hop shoots can be cooked and 

     consumed.  My hops are loving this late March heat wave we're having
 

     here in southern NY (although my beer is hating it).  In 48 hours 
some 

     of them have grown 8 inches!!!  I wasn't ready for this yet!
     

     I will soon be trimming the excess shoots.  How big can they be 
before 

     they are no longer good for cooking?  Any recipes?  I figured I'd 
just 

     saut them in a little olive oil with some garlic.
     

     Have fun!
     

     George


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Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:28:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Ward <paulw at doc.state.vt.us>
Subject: The .08 Chronicles

I always seem to weigh in with my opinion at about the time a thread
is beat to death and someone feels the need to yell, "enough
already..."

 .08 legislation really has very little to do with drunk driving. 
that is NOT the true purpose of such legislation in the United
States, or elsewhere in the world, I suspect.  I live in Vermont, and
we have .08 laws.  We also have random roadside checks and mass
roadblocks.  I work in the criminal justice field, and in the past I
spent 7 years in active law enforcement including patrol activity.

When Vermont adopted the .10 legislation years ago, they needed to
increase the State Police numbers to 'enforce' this tough drunk
driving initiative.  Since we adopted the .08 standard a year or two
ago we have been inundated with the number of 'new criminals' who had
been law abiding citizens under the old standards.  There is now a
major initiative in our legislature to once again increase the size
of the official State Police force in order to deal with all these
new criminals (many of whom are out of state tourists and skiiers -
hey, they have the money or else they wouldn't be here, right?).

Crime is big business in Vermont.  The number of people under
official supervision is growing by leaps and bounds.  2 beer inmates
locked in our holding cells; 17 year old juvenile offenders who dare
be caught with cigarettes, these are my meat and bread.  I benefit from it,
it's put my son through college, bought my house, etc.  Thanks.

The State grows heavy in Vermont.  Beware our fate! (I feel like Jacob 
Marley's ghost).

Paul in Vermont
paulw at doc.state.vt.us

- -- 
According to government height/weight charts,
I'm seven and a half feet tall.


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Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:29:08 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Soured stout

Brewsters:

Jason Henning is planning on preparing three gallons of
soured beer, storing two in the freezer and adding one to
four gallons of good beer.

M&BS as I recall says that Stout manufacturers use about
3-5% of Soured beer. That's more like  a half cup  of  soured
beer to a gallon (128 ounces/gallon X 0.03 = 3.86 oz). An
easier way is to prepare a separate batch using just malt
extract or a mini mash with a cup of malt.  Add a tablespoon
of malt to this mash at 100-110F in a thermos overnight and
you will have a soured beer to add and not waste good beer.
Alternatively if your sour mash smells a little vomity ( occasionally)
and you don't like that, just use commercial lactic acid to dry it out.
My experiments show that lactic acid comes to about 0.1N
in this souring process so you can figure it out how much
88% Lactic you need to add. Once in Ireland some decades
ago, I tasted a serving of that Black Brew that's Good for You
and it had been unmistakenly soured with a beer that had
this undesirable spoiled character.
- --------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  

Voice e-mail OK 


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Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:02:04 -0600
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton at iastate.edu>
Subject: Big Brew '98/Horticulture/Home grown adjuncts

Howdy, just a couple quick questions. If anyone in the Ames, Iowa area is
planning to participate in Big Brew '98, please email me. I would be
interested in getting a site registered in Ames.

Hop rhizomes? Anyone interested in selling hop rhizomes, or taking
something in trade, please help a brother. The quarantine out west is
killing my pocketbook ($3.00-4.00 each). In the interest of not violating a
federal quarantine, no inquiries from the state of Washington will be
accepted (sorry).

Ahh, this spring weather has got me thinking about gardening. Any
suggestions about home-grown adjuncts?

Thanks,

Jeff

- -------------------
Jeff Kenton		brewer at iastate.edu
Ames, Iowa		jkenton at iastate.edu	(515) 294 9997




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Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:05:09 -0600 
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Racking Tube and Plastic Hose Water Spots

>From: MIchael Cukrow <mcukrow at nac.net>

>Is there a better way
>to dry them so I don't end up with these? 

I was annoyed by those spots also,  during a local winemaking class I
asked the teacher (a retired chemist) about this and he said "rinse it
with a small amount of alcohol,  and shake, then drain",  darn if it
didn't work!  The alcohol absorbs the water and when you drain it all
goes out.

Recently, I have tried StarSan and I soaked the hose in it and hung it
up to dry and I noticed NO spots inside.  I haven't tested this out
enough times to say that the spots will not appear - but It looks like
the foam residue eliminates the spots.

So I wonder if anyone else has noticed this with StarSan.   The
directions in the homebrewer's kit say that the foam left behind will
coat and continue to provide sanitation.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:13:37 -0600 
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Wine & Brew comment

From: "Robert A. Black" <rblack at aoml.noaa.gov>

>Concerning the opinion of Wine & Brew expressed in response to a simple
question
>......
>While the problem described by Mr. Korzonas could well have happened,
eight
>years have elapsed, and it is ridiculous that this problem has been
brought
>up in response to Mr. Good's question. It is absolutely unfair to blame
Mr.
>Good for any shortcomings with the previous management. In my view, it
is
>up to the customer to seek redress of grievances within a reasonable
time.

When you acquire a business and keep the name, you inherit all the
benefits as well as the liabilities.

Not rocket science, common sense.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:37:08 -0500
From: Herbert Bresler <bresler.7 at osu.edu>
Subject: Local Homebrew Stores

I don't have any specific experience with the homebrew store in Miami that
precipitated the current thread, but I can offer a suggestion to improve
the level of service from your homebrew store, wherever you are.

If you are having trouble getting the attention, help, friendship and
service that you feel you decerve from your local homebrew supply shop, try
taking them a bottle or two (or three...) of your homebrews.  Evaluate them
together.  Talk beer and brewing with a homebrew in your hand (and in
theirs), and I'll bet the level of service will improve.  They will
understand that you might know a thing or two about brewing, and that you
could be a word-of-mouth advertiser for them every time someone tries one
of your excellent brews and asks, "Where do you buy your supplies?"  You
might also gain new insights into your own brewing from someone who just
might also know a thing or two about brewing.  That's what this forum is
all about; why not extend it to your real life interactions (not just these
virtual ones).  Give it a try.

Support your local brewery
and homebrew supplier!

Good brewing to you all,
Herb
bresler.7 at osu.edu
Columbus, Ohio




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Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:44:53 -0600 
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: No Hands HLT and Parallel Serial Brewing

>From: huskers at olywa.net (Jason Henning)

>I'm hoping to be able to
>do two batches at the same time and then start the next batches as the
>equipment is freed up. Parallel serial brewing (at it's best).

More than Parallel serial brewing,  what you have is:

   Dual synergistic parallel redundancy

Nice!

>A question to those using water heater elements, how are you insulting
>the connections? I've been  just leaving them exposed but there's got
to
>be an easy way to make this safer. I tried a 4" square box in between
>the element and the keg but created leaks.

You can insult the connections by cross threading the screws.  You can
insulate the connections - hmmm:

  I must confess my connections are also bare and exposed.  I figured,
well I have enough sense to not touch them.   Well, xxxx happens.   I
was sponging off some water spills and the sponge got near the terminals
and I got a thrill.  So always be careful and realize things unexpected
can happen.

  I can suggest two methods:

  1) use a PVC cap slotted and held on with a hose clamp

  2) use a shaving cream cap and silicone it on

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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