---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Grand Cru (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Foot in Mouth (the Grand Cru Debate cont.) (Golgothus)
  Grand Cru ad nauseum / .08 BAC (Paul Edwards)
  Gravity & Age (Tom Clark)
  Zymurgy burner article (Paul Edwards)
  Hop disease? (Mike Allred)
  re: Keg stratification (Jerry Cunningham)
  floating thingys ("Spies, James")
  Agitation of yeast during fermentation ("George De Piro")
  Splashing Wort / First-Wort Hopping (KennyEddy)
  redundantly reviewing recirculation; local shops (Samuel Mize)
  Wort aeration (Mark Garthwaite)
  RE: Homebrew Shops (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Data point/question for protein rest debate (Paul Shick)
  Re: Carbos and Beer - The Final Word (Spencer W Thomas)
  BT Koelsch Article (elizabeth)
  Two different issues (John E Carsten)
  D.U.I. at any Blood-alcohol Date: ("Lee C. Carpenter")
  Wyeast #2124 attenuation (Denis Barsalo)
  jbek shmoozing (Lewis Good)
  Keg Cleaning ("Rosenzweig,Steve")
  Thin Beer (Troy Hager)
  Grand Cru issues (Steven Gibbs)
  Reynolds Aluminum Tapper (jtf)
  Re: Protein rests (Scott Murman)
  First Wort Hopping (pgarofalo)
  starter gravity ("Ray Estrella")
  Cask Conditioning in corny kegs ("George De Piro")




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Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 23:05:04 -0800
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at stanford.edu>
Subject: Grand Cru

Celis Grand Cru is made with malted barley plus 11% sucrose for an OG of
1.076.  A low mash temperature is employed for maximum fermentability. 
Acetic acid is used for souring.  All of this is from Lenzie Kinyon,
operations manager at Celis.
- -- 
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb


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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 05:23:35 EST
From: Golgothus <Golgothus at aol.com>
Subject: Foot in Mouth (the Grand Cru Debate cont.)

Hello All,

		I have received conformation from Greg Springer (Assistant Head Brewer at
Celis) that the Grand Cru is NOT a white ... it was called a "Trippel" by
Pierre Celis when it was first brewed in Belgium and (since it is no longer
bottle conditioned) Greg thinks it would be best known as a Strong Blonde Ale
now.  It doesn't use any wheat and has the addition of sucrose in the brew
kettle to produce high levels of esters.  He stated that it just won a Gold
Medal in the World Beer Championships as a Triple.  It has an OG of 17.1 Plato
and would need an ethanol-tolerant strain of yeast that produces high levels
of esters.  He recommends only 1/10 to 1/4 ounce of spices to produces aromas
not flavors (for a five gallon batch).  He also stated that the term Grand Cru
is French and means literally "great growth".  It is a legal term for a few
top wine growers like Chateau Rothchild.  It was used by Pierre to signify his
best beer. 
		From Lenzie Kinyon (Operations manager at Celis) through information sent me
by Jeremy Bergsman, it has an OG of 1.076 (though this gives a Brix of 19 not
17.1 Plato.  I would go with the 17.1 as it is from the Asst.  Head Brewer)
and 11% sucrose.  It is also noted that a low mash temp is used to achieve
maximum fermentability and acetic acid is used as a souring agent. 
		The spices are like those used in the White which IMHO is the source of
confusion in my books and in general. So much for becoming a master brewer
overnight ;-) When in doubt ask the source. Again thanx to all who helped
further my understanding of this beer and I'll keep you posted on how the
White I'm committed to brewing turns out (all that wheat extract has to be
used for something  ;-) 

All My Best,

Michael Whitt
Brewster and Wandering Philosopher
Bragi's Brewery
Mobile Al

Golgothus at aol.com
"He who lives by the skull, will die by the skull."


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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:28:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Edwards <pedwards at iquest.net>
Subject: Grand Cru ad nauseum / .08 BAC

Guten dag,

Michael Whitt's lengthy expose' of  American home brewing literature's
references to Grand Cru notwithstanding, those of you fortunate enough to
have a stash of Lindemann's Cuvee Rene Gueze (as I am - about 20 bottles
left) will note that the bottle is labelled "Grand Cru". Last time I
looked, Lambic ain't a belgian wit.

I stand on the side of the line that says "Grand Cru" is a brewery's
designation for a Special Product, not a style. As for American's
Confusion of the Issue, I think it's just that Hoegaarden and Celis are
merely the _best known_ products which have the words Grand Cru on the
label.

********
While I have the floor, allow me to respectfully disagree with my friend
Steve Jackson, who opines that lowering the threshhold for DUI to .08 BAC
won't be a problem for people who aren't driving erratically, as he
believes the cops need probable cause to pull you over.

Here in the Hoosier Heartland, they have a little revenue-raiser called
sobriety check-points, in which _every_ driver of every car passing by is
checked.  Erratic driving or not, you blow over .10 (now), you're busted.
 
And, I've been pulled over 3 times in 29 years of driving by near-sighted
cops who read my license plate wrong, then pulled me over to accuse me of
having stolen plates. They can pull you over for low tire pressure.

Anymore, I make sure I keep fresh doughnuts in the glove box.

- --Paul Edwards
  pedwards at iquest.net

"Klatu - Barada - Nicto"



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Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 06:47:09 -0500
From: Tom Clark <rtclark at eurekanet.com>
Subject: Gravity & Age

Dave, gravity does cause some fluids to "settle".  Otherwise, a 
centrifuge would not work.

I just got back from Florida and opened up some beers that have been in 
the old root cellar all winter.  A couple of them were quite bitter when 
first brewed but now they have mellowed out very nicely.  I don't 
understand the thread about beer needing to be fresh to be good.  Many 
of my beers improve dramatically with age.  Perhaps I make such lousy 
beer that any change is for the better?

Tom



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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:54:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Edwards <pedwards at iquest.net>
Subject: Zymurgy burner article

I would have to agree with Bill in that the zymurgy burner article left me
a bit, uh, cold.

While raw BTU output might be of some interest, I find it to not be
terribly relevant to my process. YMMV.

when I brew outdoors using propane (rare these days),  I start up the
burner to heat the mash water first thing, thing I set up the rest of the
equipment, and crush the grain.  By the time I do that, even a Superb
burner has brought the water to a boil.  During runoff, I keep the burner
on low to keep the sweet wort hot.  As more wort gets added to the kettle,
I turn up the flame.  By the time I'm done sparging, the wort is boiling
nicely.  I even have to throttle the Superb back a bit.

Nowadays, I use a Superb Burner (jetted for NG) in my (well-ventilated)
basement.  Converted Keg Hot Liquor tank is electrically heated using a
submersible stock tank heater (1200 watts or so) from the farm supply
store and a heavy duty timer plugged into a GFI outlet.  Timer kicks in at
4 am.  When I get downstairs at 7 am, I've got 13-14 gallons of 180 deg F
water ready to go.  If the water's too hot, I mix in a little cold in the
mash tun.  Maybe I'll put a thermostat on the HLT someday...
Sparge process is the same as outdoors.

I thought for completeness' sake the zymurgy article should have addressed
NG burners and more realistic scenarios.  I think I could've come to the
same conclusion w.r.t. speed and gas usage w/o firing the suckers up.

- --Paul E.



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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 05:31:26 -0700
From: Mike Allred <mballred at xmission.com>
Subject: Hop disease?

I was getting my hop garden ready for spring yesterday and I noticed a very
large brain shaped lumpy mass about the size of a bowling ball growing where
my cascades are.  Now,  the cascade is the oldest vine (this will be the 3rd
year for it).  None of my other plants have this type of growth on them.
Is this a normal thing for hops that are planted too close to the surface or
do I have some type of disease that could spread to my other plants?



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Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 08:27:29 -0500
From: Jerry Cunningham <gcunning at census.gov>
Subject: re: Keg stratification

Kyle Druey wrote:

>I have noticed that when I first start pouring from the keg the beer is

>much thicker and meatier than at the end of the keg.  The last gallon
or
>so is much lighter and thinner than the first gallon.

I think this is due to yeast dropping out of suspension. I've noticed
this, too - the end of the keg is much "cleaner" tasting, and definetely
clearer. A totally different beer than the beggining of the keg
(typically 3 weeks earlier). Here's to (sort of) real ale!

- --

Jerry Cunningham   |
DBA                |  gcunning at census.gov
U.S. Census Bureau |




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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:11:25 -0500
From: "Spies, James" <Jams at mlis.state.md.us>
Subject: floating thingys

All -

I decided to brew on short notice the other night (extract American
wheat), and when I transferred the cooled wort to the fermenter, I got
little or no hot break.  I figured, oh well, I'll just rack in a few
days.  However, today (2 days later) I have pea to marble sized lumpy
thingys floating around in the carboy.  I used Irish moss in the boil,
but have never seen this kind of coagulate.  They have formed a loose
layer about 2-3 inches deep on the bottom of the carboy.  Will they
settle out?  How can I rack off of this mess without losing a lot of the
beer?  Any thoughts?  BTW, yeast was Wyeast Swedish Ale (figured I'd
give it a try).

Jay Spies
Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery
Baltimore, MD


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Date: Fri, 03 Apr 98 10:21:23 PST
From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at NOSPAMfcc.net>
Subject: Agitation of yeast during fermentation

Hi all,

Bob has learned that constant agitation of yeast starters will result in 
more yeast growth.  He wonders if this can/should be done in the primary 
fermenter.

Yes, this can be done in the fermenter, but you most definitely don't 
want to!  Constant agitation of the fermenting wort will promote greater 
yeast growth and faster fermentation.  A big brewer tried this a while back,
 and the results almost (or did?) put them out of business!   That's a 
pretty big price to pay for saving some time in the fermentation cellar. 
 It was either Schaefer of Schlitz...Rob, do you remember?

There is a difference between making beer and growing yeast.  Which is 
it that you want to do?  As AJ has pointed out, the liquid in a yeast 
starter is not very palatable, so you don't want to mimic those same 
conditions in your primary fermenter.

Have fun!

George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)  Remove NOSPAM from address to reply


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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:39:58 EST
From: KennyEddy <KennyEddy at aol.com>
Subject: Splashing Wort / First-Wort Hopping

Richard Johnson asked about HSA from hastily dumping water into the broth from
a specialty-grain steep.  I would think there is some risk of HSA at this
stage, though perhaps somewhat less due to the smaller volume of wort in
question.  A simple solution is to pour the water onto a ladle or the back of
a spoon which is held just above the wort.  This way the heavy flow is broken
up before it can excessively agitate the wort.

*****

Alan Edwards asks about "First Wort Hopping".  The short answer is that it
involves adding hops to the kettle during sparging.  The higher pH and lower
temperature apparently bind the aroma and flavor compounds to the wort in a
way that survives the boil, resulting in (according to taste tests) superior
flavor/aroma.  The long answer (well worth reading) can be found at
http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer/1stwort.html.

*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:58:12 -0600 (CST)
From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net>
Subject: redundantly reviewing recirculation; local shops

Greetings to all.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CIRCULATING AND RECIRCULATING

I think it's emphasis.  From the usage I've seen, "recirculate" is
used when a device normally runs by flow-through (like a lauter tun).
"Circulate" would also be correct, but "recirculate" emphasizes that
this is not its normal operation.

To some extent it's like "inflammable" and "flammable."
"Inflammable" means enflame-able, burnable.  But it LOOKS like "not
flame-able," so we use "flammable" on gasoline trucks to ensure
against errors.  (Why we don't use "burnable" I don't know.)

ON PATRONIZING LOCAL HOMEBREW SHOPS

I personally drive past two homebrew shops on my way to work.  I
drive past another on the way to the shop I do patronize.  I like the
way Dr. Jeckyll's (Arlington TX) packages bulk liquid malt, I like
their product selection, and I just like the feel of the store.  When
I go there, I generally either deal with the owner (Pat) or his wife
(Margot), both of whom have gone out of their way to be helpful to me.

(The other Dallas shops are OK too -- we're quite lucky.)

Vachom said:
> 	I'm blessed with an excellent homebrew supply shop here in New
> Orleans--an outfit name of BrewHaHa.
[paen deleted]

And Mark S. Johnston said:
> My local supplier
> announced last Monday that they were going out of business.
 ...
> Brew-Ha-Ha, Ltd. RIP.

Same place?  I hope not -- boy, that' s lousy news.

On the other hand, Mark also said:
> To those who complain of the service they receive at their local homebrew
> shop, I can only say: "Be grateful that you have one." 

I disagree -- a bad store can harm the brewing community more than
the absence of a store, driving people away and keeping a good
nucleus of hobbyists from forming.

If there's a decent shop nearby, I feel we should patronize it.  They
benefit and enlarge the local homebrew community.

If there's a shop whose service or advice is consistently bad, and
the owner won't change it, I feel we SHOULDN'T patronize it.  They
harm and reduce the local homebrew community.

Best,
Sam Mize
- -- 
Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada
die gedanken sind frie (per special request)



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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:16:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Mark Garthwaite <mgarth at primate.wisc.edu>
Subject: Wort aeration


	I recall a little while ago someone suggesting the use of a
syringe for blasting air into their stout to create a head similar to that
of Guinness.  That got me thinking....what about using a big syringe for
"injecting" wort to aerate it before pitching?  The only problem I can
think of would be a risk of introducing ambient "nasties" into the wort.
Anyone care to weigh in on this one?

	Also, anyone looking to obtain a nice sized brewing pot might be
well served by checking the papers for going-out-of-business restaurant
auctions.  I picked up an 8 gallon stainless steel pot for $25 at an
auction last week and can't wait to put it to use.  These auctions are
usually during weekdays but I just went over to the auction site, checked
out the kettle, and decided how much I would pay for it.  Then I put in an
absentee bid on it and went back to work.  The auctioneer was authorized
to bid for me up to the amount I was willing to pay.  I wound up getting
it for alot less than I bid too.  I'll bet you could get some other useful
brewing equipment too.

 -Mark Garthwaite
 Madison, WI




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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:25:58 -0600 
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Homebrew Shops

>From: "Mark S. Johnston" <msjohnst at talon.net>

>The bottom line seems to be that there are fewer homebrewers than a few
>years ago, current homebrewers are brewing less often, and those that
do
>are finding alternate sources for their supplies. 

Maybe all the homebrewers are on the HBD instead of brewing!  That can
explain why the HBD has more posts than ever!

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 10:32:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu>
Subject: Data point/question for protein rest debate

 


Hello all,

	I have a question/data point to add to the protein rest debate. 
I recently bottled half a batch each of a Vienna and a Dortmunder that
I brewed two weeks apart, two + months ago.  The grist for the Vienna was
mostly DWC Pilsener and Munich, with small amounts of Vienna, light crystal 
and carapils.  I had planned on a 135F-153F step infusion, but overshot and
ended up doughing in at 140F.  Since so many have posted about how 
unnecessary protein rests are, I wasn't worried and plunged on, pitching the 
10 gallon batch with a nice starter of Wyeast 2206 Bavarian.  Two weeks later, 
I racked the Dortmunder onto the yeast cake from the Vienna primary.  The
Dortmunder grist was mostly DWC Pils, with smaller amounts of DWC Munich
and carapils.  This time, I followed a 131F-155F schedule, hitting both 
rests on the nose.  Hopping schedules were pretty similar between the two
brews, with some Liberty FWH, Perle for bittering, and Liberty and Saaz
somewhat later in the boil, all whole hops. My plan was to bottle condition 
5 gallons of each after a one month lagering, and to keg, force carbonate 
and CP fill the other 5 gallons of each after 2-3 months of even colder 
lagering (a "seat of the pants" experiment comparing long term stability 
for bottle condition vs. keg/CP.) The punch line is that at bottling time, 
the Vienna was awfully cloudy, while the Dortmunder was crystal clear.  Since 
nearly everything else was identical for the two batches, this might be 
considered a data point in favor of a rest at 135F or below for fighting haze. 
Yes, I know, it's only one data point, but it does fit in well with what I've 
seen over the last few years, both with Briess 2-row and various European Pils 
malts.  Have others encountered haze problems with a 140-150+F mashing regime, 
or with a straight infusion with DWC Pilsener malt?  Would the "anti-protein 
rest" crowd care to comment?  

	My thanks to those who responded privately to my question about
sulphur aromas in a pale ale.  Also, sorry, George De Piro, about muddling
up your last name.


   			Paul Shick 
 			Basement brewing in Cleveland Hts OH

 



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Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 11:12:12 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Carbos and Beer - The Final Word 

See also my calculator page in JavaScript at

http://realbeer.com/spencer/attenuation.html

=Spencer


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Date: 	Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:26:04 -0500 (EST)
From: elizabeth <eaweston at email.unc.edu>
Subject: BT Koelsch Article

Greetings all,

I have been away from this forum for about 2 years and am happy to see
that the HBD is still the same valuable resource it has always been.  Keep
up the good work, folks!

Now, regarding the above mentioned BT article...is it my imagination, or
was this Koelsch article the worst "Style" column to date?   There is
literally no discussion of traditional Koelsch brewing techniques!  Not
even one intimate look at a brewery, or discussion with a brewmaster.  I
mean, shouldn't such source mateial be the natural starting point for an
article like this?--the basis from which to proceed?  Forrest Williams
seems more intent upon telling us how *he*, as a brewer, would go about
duplicating this style, than how the brewers of Cologne proceed. 

On even basic points (mashing, boiling, fermentation, conditioning),
Williams only offers his advice regarding duplication.  He mentions his
brewery, his process, his speculation.  Why should I care how *his*
brewery makes it Koelsch-style ale, I want to know what the Germans do.
One forms the opinion that while in Cologne, he never asked any
questions.

To compound this, it also looks as if no one took the time to edit his
article.  This prompted be to email the following letter to Mr
Williams in order to gain some clarification.  Unfortunately, I
have not heard back from him and I would appreciate any comments
which you HBDers could provide regarding my questions.

Perhaps I may be unduely upset, but BT is the only quality brewing 
magazine of which I am aware which is aimed specifically at homebrewers.  
I have valued their articles in the past and hope to do so again in the
future. I just hate to plop down $6.50 and get 8 pages of such poor
quality material (Ok, the decoction/RIMS stuff more than made up for it).
Is BT in some sort of editorial crisis??  What happened to Jim Busch?

Here's the letter.
Peace,

David
- -----------------------
Dear Mr Williams,

I have just finished reading your BT column on Koelsch-style beers, and
was hoping that you could clarify several points.

The first minor point, I assume, is simply a result of editorial
oversight. On page 38 you state:

"This fermentation regime...effectively retards ester production and
generates a faint fruitiness."

Since esters are produced solely by yeast, and these same esters produce
fruitiness, this sentence could be seen as self-contradicting.  Would I be
correct in speculating that your point would be better clarified by adding
an "only," following the "and?"

The next point is a bit more confusing.  On page 42, you discuss mash
thickness:

"A thick mash will reduce the temperature stability of some enzymes and
dilute enzyme substances and the products of enzyme action.  A thick mash
will help to stabilize enzymes..."

First, I am completely uncertain as to what you mean by "enzyme
substances"-- I have never heard/read this phrase before and would
appreciate any clarification.  Second, how does mash thickness affect
enzyme stability?  I am aware that thickness can affect enzyme efficiency,
and that thicker mashes will produce faster conversion rates. (Am I also
correct in assuming that "thick" in the first instance should have been
"thin"?)  Finally, after having established that a thick mash is
preferable (again, I assume this is what you meant), why then recommend a
"loose mash?"

As a last point, on page 43 you talk about yeast:

"...thorough aeration and a cast-out temperature around 68F (20C) will
ensure a minimal lag time and an accelerated respiration phase."

Now, based upon what I have read regarding the biologic process of yeast
(for example, in Tracy Aquilla's excellent article in the March/April
'97's BT, or in the many discussions carried out in the Homebrew Digest),
yeast do not respire in wort, regardless of the concentration of oxygen
(that is, as long as glucose concentrations exceeding about 0.4% (w/v)).
Furthermore, reading Aquilla's article one would conclude that the
relatively crisp/clean Koelsch style would benefit by *not* aerating the
cold wort (pp. 56-57).  Do you have some research to the contrary?

Thank you for your time,

David Rinker



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Date: 03 Apr 1998 10:36:07 -0600
From: John E Carsten <John.E.Carsten at oklaosf.state.ok.us>
Subject: Two different issues

Thank those of you who have sent private
 e-mails on my post about "UPS, Alcohol and
 Minors".  However, reading them, I think some
 of you might have been under the impression
 that I was chiming in on the .08 thread.  This was
 a separate issue entirely.  This bill, H.R. 3537,
 deals SOLELY with the UNFAIR prosecution,
 fining and possible imprisonment of delivery
 service (read: UPS, etc.) employees for delivering 
alcohol to minors.

The .08 problem is a different issue entirely.  It is
 included in the federal transportation appropriations
 legislation.  First, I DO NOT THINK IT SHOULD PASS.

But unfortunately, I think it has a good chance.

As I said about the other bill, this is a "feel-good" 
piece of legislation.  But the .08 legislation also 
is tied to federal highway building funds.  That
 could spell disaster for the anti-.08 crowd (read:
 us and reasonable people like us).  Federal 
highway funds are big-business in congress. 
 There are number of unreasonable laws which
 have been pushed through by holding
 transportation funds hostage.  (FYI, that's how we 
got Bill Clinton's 100,000 new police officers).

At any rate, this .08 deal is primarily a Senate creation.
  The Senate Transportation Bill, passed a couple of
 weeks ago, contained it.  One promising bit of news
 is that the House version of the transportation bill (which
 should come up for a vote in the next couple of weeks)
 DOES NOT contain the .08 provision.  That's good for us.

Since the 2 bills are wildly different, they will have to
 go to a joint House/Senate conference committee
 to reconcile the different versions of the bill.  In an
 environment like that (as you can imagine) things
 that people were previously committed to, are
 bargained away for other things that they are 
more committed to.

If the .08 provision does not have significant 
support from the Senate appointees to the 
committee, they may trade it away for the extra 
few million dollars that they are trying to cram into
 the bill.  The downside is that they may be committed
 to it, and force House members to accept it so that they 
can get something they want.  Right now, we are just 
going to have to wait and see (AND WRITE YOUR 
CONGRESSMAN AND SENATORS).

You know, writing this, I've just realized how screwy the 
world in which I work is.

This time I will issue my apology for the long post ONLY to 
those HBDers from places other than the United States. 
 It appears my brewing brethren in the colonies has an interest
 in the legal issues which affect our craft.  For those of you from 
other countries, I believe your computers (like those we buy 
in America) are sold with keyboards.  On the keyboard you 
will find a little arrow pointing down.  As with your television 
remote control ... if you don't like the content of the program, use
 it to find something else.  That's why it's there.

Cheers
John


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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:04:00 -0500
From: "Lee C. Carpenter" <lee at brew-master.com>
Subject: D.U.I. at any Blood-alcohol Date: 



     I think we are forgetting what is really important in this .08 debate.
Unless you are involved in a vehicle accident and taken to the hospital,
where they will automatically do a B.A.C.(blood-alcohol content) test, there
is only one thing that stands between you and the handcuffs...the field
sobriety tests. I've been a street cop for 19 years and enjoy drinking beer
a lot more than I enjoy arresting drunk drivers.
    The smell of alcohol on your breath is not sufficient to make an arrest
unless your state is .00. There has to be other factors such as erratic
driving or...failing the sobriety tests. My point is that since we're
talking about being charged with D.U.I. when you are only .08, and I agree
most regular beer drinkers could still emulate Jim Rockford's driving
maneuvers at this reading, you need to protect yourself. How? Practice the
standardized field sobriety tests at home! I'm not joking. Have two beers,
then retire to your garage or basement, and do the heel-to-toe. Do the
finger-to-nose. Lift one of your legs at a 45 deg. in front of you and hold
it there as long as you can. Say the alphabet starting at letters other than
'A". These are the tests you will most likely be administered. Drink two
more beers and try them again. Then two more, and so on till you reach the
number of beers you periodically drink when you still feel confident to
drive. Give yourself a chance if you ever find yourself in that position.
Know how your body reacts to the tests after a certain amount of beers and
you may be able to compensate.
    Remember, you could be driving perfectly at .08 when some wingnut blows
the stop sign and hits you. When the Police get their the wingnut tells the
cop, "yea man, I blew the stop sign, but smell his breath! He's been
DRINKING, man! He shouldn't have even BEEN on the road!" Just what you need,
right? I've seen alcoholics nearly pass these test at a B.A.C. of over .25,
and I've seen young once-a-month drinkers fail them horribly at .08.
    When you've had a few, CONCENTRATE on your driving. Probable cause is
needed in all D.U.I. cases. If the aforementioned wingnut hits you, tell the
Officer, "yes sir, I've had a few beers, but I'm not impaired." Then
illustrate the "practice makes perfect" cliche as you ace the tests and wave
buy-buy to the wingnut as he's handed his citation.
    I'm not trying to undermine and enforcement of D.U.I. laws, I just want
people to have a fair chance.


Lee C. Carpenter
Landisville, PA




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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:17:39 -0500
From: Denis Barsalo <denisb at cam.org>
Subject: Wyeast #2124 attenuation

Lagerers,
	I brewed a Bohemian pilsner on St. Patrick's day using an all-grain
recipe. Everything went as planned, I got the extraction I expected and I
pitched a healthy starter of Wyeast Bohemian Lager to a 1.055 wort  at  15C
(59F). As the krausen developed over the next 24 hours, I slowly lowered
the temperature until I got down to 9C (49F) a little over 48 hours after
pitching.
	The ferment was quite active the whole time. Today (April 3rd), I
decided to rack it to a secondary seeing how it has been fermenting for
over two weeks. I was suprised to see it was only at 1.034! Does this seem
normal to you? Should I keep the secondary at a warmer temperature, like
around 59F or so for a few days to try and lower the SG, and give it a
diacetyl rest or just keep it in the cold room at 49F for a month or so and
be patient? I was hoping to bottle this beer before May 2nd, since I plan
to enter it in a competition. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Private e-mail OK.

Denis Barsalo




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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:17:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Lewis Good <winenbru at icanect.net>
Subject: jbek shmoozing

It is not called shmoozing it is called pride in your brewing. Simply put
if you are proud of your brew you will share a beer with the folks at your
homebrew shop (every once and a while). It seams as though the brewers that
bring in a brew are ones that make better beer in the first place. I bet
you would bring in a beer if it was spoiled and ask what's wrong.So why not
a good one besides it makes a shop owner or employee feel good about thire
service.


- ---------------------------------------------
Lewis Good
Wine & brew By you INC.
5760 bird road
Miami FL. 33155
ph# (305)666-5757
Fax#(305)667-4266
Email winenbru at icanect,net
web site http://www.icanect.net/winenbru/
- ---------------------------------------------




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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:32:21 PST
From: "Rosenzweig,Steve" <Steve_Rosenzweig at wb.xerox.com>
Subject: Keg Cleaning

In response to Mark Swenson's question on keg cleanliness in HBD 2678:

Assuming that you get the used corny from a dealer with some sort of 
 soda syrup still in it, you want to dump that out and probably replace 
 all of the rubber o-rings; the small ones on the in/out fittings and 
 the large one as well. You may even want to replace the ones at the 
 top of the liquid and gas tubes, but I did not.  O-rings can typically 
 be obtained through your local HB shop or mail order if necessary.

At first I just boiled the heck out of the original ones until I got 
 around to ordering a set of new ones.  I detected no off flavors from 
 using the original ones, and keep them around as spares if necessary, YMMV.

If you are using Pin Lock style corny's make yourself a pin-lock keg 
 tool as described by myself below, or more recently in BT.

*********************
From: Rosenzweig,Steve
To: 'HBD'
Subject: Pin Lock Keg Tool
Date: Friday, February 16, 1996 2:09PM

This may not be a revelation for anyone, but I was quite pleased with myself 
for adding to my gadgetry . . .

I use the pin lock style soda kegs for my brews, and have always had trouble 
getting the darn pin lock fixtures off so that I could clean.  My trusty 
crescent wrench would work, but only after much effort and possible damage to 
the fixture (such as popping one of the dang metal nips off - which I did!). 
 My grandfather's voice kept ringing through my head "the right tool for the 
job" or some such nonsense . . .  But then I saw in a recent issue of Zymurgy 
that someone was selling a socket for removing the pin lock fixtures for 
about $15.  Now, I'm way too cheap for that, and upon further review of the 
picture in the write-up, I saw that it was just a 13/16" deep well socket 
that had notches in the end to allow the metal nips to fit through.  

Since I didn't already have that particular type of socket . . . off to the 
hardware store I went.  A 13/16" deep well socket (spark plug style) was 
about $2.50.  I took it home and used a 4" hand held grinder to cut some 
notches in the correct pattern (four notches in the corners of the hex 
pattern - two across from each other, and two next to either one of those)- 
and viola! a new gadget for the brew box!

Nothing against those folks selling the tool for $15, I'm sure lots of people 
may not have the time, tools, or inclination to make their own gadget, and 
would gladly pay for the completed part.  Not I.

Not an earth shattering revelation, but if it saves a few kegs and or scraped 
knuckles, I've done my good deed for the day.
*****************************

Take the liquid and gas valves off the keg and remove the dip tubes.  
 Rinse out the keg as best you can, spraying from a garden hose, or 
 better yet one of those bottle rinser thingys. Use a flashlight to see 
 if there are any hard to remove spots inside the keg and clean them 
 with a plastic scrubby. Perhaps even soak it in warm/hot water with a 
 cleanser of your choice (non-soap based).

Use a small screw driver or a pick to remove the o-rings from the 
 valves.  Put the valve rightside up on a hard, flat surface and punch 
 out the inner poppet using a small screwdriver or a punch tool.  Do 
 this carefully so as not to bend the legs of the poppet - you want it 
 to fit right when you reassemble it.  I typically hand rinse all of 
 these small components, then boil them for 5-10 minutes to make sure 
 they are really clean (including the keg cover and the big o-ring.  
 When you reassemble the fittings, make sure that your hands are clean 
 (boil them for 5 min?) and put the o-rings back on, turn the fitting 
 upside down and put the poppet back in place the same way you removed it.

To sanitize the keg you can use a weak bleach solution for a short 
 contact time (15 min) to avoid pitting the keg, or iodophor for the 
 same time or more (for those financially challenged that have access, 
 go to a farmstore and get udder wash for $12/gal rather than $6/pint 
 at the HB store (do not get iodophor that contains lanolin!)
Because of its size, I end up sanitizing the liquid tube in the 
 iodophor and the gas tube in the boil with the rest of the fittings 
 and o-rings.

I rinse after the iodophor sanitization, then let the keg drip dry a 
 few minutes upside down.  Replace the tubes, crank down the fittings 
 with the pin  lock tool, set the cover and large o-ring aside to dry 
 also.  Optionally, you can purge the keg prior to filling with CO2.  
 After siphoning in your beer, it usually helps to make sure the the 
 cover, large o-ring and the area of the keg at the top that comes into 
 contact with the o-ring is dry (I've danced with the devil and used 
 clean paper towel to insure this, so far with good results.)  This 
 seems to get a better seal, especially if the cover fits somewhat 
 loosely , or the keg is slightly dented at the top.  Attach the gas in 
 and blast some CO2 in, if you don't hear alot of hissing, and it seems 
 to hold pressure, you probably have a good seal and can force carb the 
 keg at your leisure!

There are lots of other ways to go about cleaning and kegging, and they 
 all get us to roughly the same place with varying levels of effort and 
 results.  As with everything else about home brewing - take everyones 
 advice then do whatever works best for you and your system!

Stephen
Brewing in Ontario NY - outside lovely Rochester!





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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:00:30 -0700
From: Troy Hager <thager at bsd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Thin Beer

Hans E. Hansen writes:

" Some of my beer batches turn out kinda thin.  I know the usual
causes, but this puzzles me:	Two batches, the same except for the type
of hops.  Batch
1 turned out great, with a carmelly malty flavor, but batch 2 had little
flavor.
No off flavors or aromas, mind you, but just very little flavor at all.
The finishing gravity was the same for both (1.012)."

I too, have had trouble getting the body and sweetness up in my brews. I
have tried using carmel, munich, and vienna malts and have upped my mash
temps to 158F, but still my beers have dropped to 1.012-1.015 and have
little body or malt sweetness to them.

Has anyone else experienced this? Maybe one of the gurus can take on the
subject of body, mouthfeel and malt sweetness???

TIA!! Brew along sweet doggies...  8>)


Troy A. Hager
2385 Trousdale Drive.
Burlingame,  CA  94010
259-3850




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Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 11:14:07 -0800
From: Steven Gibbs <gibbs at lightspeed.net>
Subject: Grand Cru issues

M. Witt stated in HBD#       that:
"it as a "style" now, as some of the-better-informed-than-I  have done
the
same. I suppose the easiest thing to do is get in touch with the brewers
of
"Grand Cru" and see if they are willing to tell us the basic ingredients
of
their respective brews (i.e., wheat or not) and go by the AHA style
guide for
our own brews ... what you put in is what it is, I think...
                Much thanks to all who helped me to understand what I
could about the whole
thing ... perhaps someday we will be able to get this all straightened
out,
till then I remain...

Michael Whitt"

I am not a commercial brewer of Belgian Beer but I have been studying it
and I can say generally that while German and English styles tend to be
strictly followed by most of the world, it is the Belg. brewers and
their styles that seem to bring out the extreme artist or creative
aspect of this noble brewing endevour. The Grand Cru is but one type.

While it is not strictly speaking a style, it is part of a legal
classification "Catagory S (Superior)" with an OG of 1.062+ (15.5+
Plato).  The catagory has a profile of OG 1.063-1.095; FG 1.012-1.022;
apprarent degree of attenuation: 70-80%; real degree of attenuation:
55-60%; reducing sugars (as maltose): 1-2.5%; acidity (as lactic acid):
0.2%; pH: 3.9-4.3; bitterness: 5-9 HBU (per 5 gal. or 20-50 IBU); color:
3.5-20 degrees L.; alcohol: 5.5-9.6% w/v, 7-12% v/v; CO2:1.5-3.5 vol.

The above information comes from the best book I have found on the
subject of Belg. Beers, "Classic Beer Style Series-Belgian Ale" written
by Pierre Rajotte. If you haven't read it, you really should if you are
at all interested in Belgian Beers.

The Cat."S" beer leave a tremendous amount of room for the individual
brewers interpretation. I would not doubt that some use wheat and try to
more closely approach the wit style, but I don't think that is that
common. Most all of the commercial examples are very different but
Rajotte says they do have a few things in common. Most are bottle
conditioned and have high CO2 levels, and even though most Belg. beers
are lightly hopped, this catagory is the most hopped of all the
catagories.

There is also another technique mentioned my Rajotte which contributes
to some Grand Cru's distint taste and that is to have the proper
microflora introduction. He state that in this way the GC is like many
of the Oud Bruins in that they brew the GC recipe and let it properly
age for a year and then brew it again and blend the old with the new to
taste. Bottom line is be creative and make your own recipe to your own
taste.
Happy Brewing
Steve Gibbs   
(also brewing in somewhere in Bakersfield)



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Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 16:40:36 -0500
From: jtf at carol.net
Subject: Reynolds Aluminum Tapper

I found (and bought) a "Reynolds Aluminum Tapper" at a flea market today.
I have never seen anything like it.  It holds 2&1/4 gals, and has some type
of internal CO2 cylinder.  Has anyone got any information about this
product?  I wonder if there are parts available.

Please respond to the digest or by e-mail.

Tom jtf at carol.net



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Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:55:35 -0800
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Re: Protein rests 


Big George de Piro wrote:
>      
>      Dave Reidel writes in to report that he has made a clear, poor-head 
>      wheat beer.  He rested at ~113F and 122F (45C and 50C).  He asks if 
>      this contradicts Kunze, because he used a protein rest and got 
>      unusually clear beer.
>      
>      Actually, what Dave did supports Kunze, and it supports my preaching 
>      about losing protein rests.

But George, you can't simply ignore those of us who are using protein
rests and do not produce hazy beer, and get great, long-lasting head
formation.  There are just so many variables involved, that blanket
statements will only lead to problems.

Just as a point of clarification, I think the haze in weizen brews is
usually the result of the yeast still being in suspension, not the
result of chill haze or some other mashing carry over.  Weizen beers
are served fresh, and the weizen strains are almost pathological
non-floccers.

SM


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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 20:43:04 -0500
From: pgarofalo at juno.com
Subject: First Wort Hopping

In HBD #2678, Alan Edwards asks:

<I've read several posts that mention this, but must have missed
something.
<What exactly is First Wort Hopping?
<What is it supposed to do for the beer?

Finally, a thread worth reviving!

First wort hopping involves the addition of a portion of the hops charge
(usually the "flavor" or last 30-minutes of the boil additions) to the
runoff from the lauter tun. The hops are left in the kettle throughout
the boil, and though the IBU contribution is significant, the bitterness
is of a "softer" nature.

I am an ardent practitioner of first wort hoppping, and what it does is
this: adds the most intense hop flavor you'll ever taste. It is also
(debatably) responsible for a boost in aroma, or so some folks say. I
usually cover up any such effect with dry hops.

This thread was an active one, with several folks pledging to carry out
side-by-side brewing experiments to detail the nuances of the style, but
not many actually reported back.

Anyone care to update?

Cheers,

Peter Garofalo
Syracuse, NY

_____________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 20:16:47 -0600
From: "Ray Estrella" <ray-estrella at email.msn.com>
Subject: starter gravity

  Hello to all,
Fred Johnson says,

>I know many have said that one should optimally start the yeast at the
>same gravity as that of  the wort into which they will be eventually
>pitched, but I have never heard a reasonable explanation for why this
>matters in yeast growth.  I suspect this is another one of those myths
>that are never challenged.  So here's your chance to flame back!
>(I know there is such thing as gravity shock, but I thought that
>occurred in going from gravity extreme to the other.)


  Do you mean, like going from a 1.025 starter into a 1.060 wort?
Personally I start my yeast off the slant, or SDWYS vial, into a 1.030
mini starter.  That is pitched to a 1.045 starter that is bumped up once
or twice more at the same gravity.

Ray Estrella   Cottage Grove   MN
ray-estrella at msn.com

****** Never Relax, Constantly Worry....have a better Homebrew ******







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Date: Fri, 03 Apr 98 23:22:29 PST
From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at NOSPAMfcc.net>
Subject: Cask Conditioning in corny kegs

Hi all,

I have been considering cask conditioning at home in corny kegs.  I've 
seen brewers dry hop and cask condition beer in firkins.  Can this be 
done with corny kegs?  How is it that the hops don't clog the valves or end 
up in the drinker's glass?

If anybody out there has actual experience doing this, I'd be interested 
in reading about it.  Thanks!

Have fun!

George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

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