---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Beer in Mail (DGofus)
  First wort hopping (Bill Giffin)
  Warming chilled kegs (haafbrau1)
  Homebrew shops ("R.Lewis")
  The Cask of Monte's Cornie (Some Guy)
  Cleaners / Iodosphor scum (Mark Weaver)
  Gravity and age (Jeff Renner)
  dry hopping in corny keg (Paul Edwards)
  Re: BT Koelsch Article (Scott Murman)
  Re: First Wort Hopping (Scott Murman)
  Re: cask conditioning in Corny kegs (Sean Mick)
  Fw: "Old Peculier" ("Peter Junger")
  12th Annual Great Taste of the Midwest<sm> (Great Taste of the Midwest)
  Yeasts for Warmer Climates ("Gregg Soh")
  re: No Hands HLT- heater element insulation ("C.D. Pritchard")
  CO2 cylinder overfilling ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Keg conditioning ("Ray Estrella")
  Centrifugation, ("David R. Burley")
  FWH IBUs ( STEVE   GARRETT)
  An Aussie Thanks! ("Dr. Pivo")
  Skimming off foam during the boil.... (Mark Weaver)
  RE: Moving Hops (erikvan)
  Mineral Salt Experiments / Some Side Issues (Kyle Druey)
  stirring (John_E_Schnupp)




NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS:  hbd.org 

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.) 

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. 
**SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL
**ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! 
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
  the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!

For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery at hbd.org

Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org

Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via:

  Anonymous ftp from...
	ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests
	ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

  AFS users can find it under...
        /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 07:06:40 EST
From: DGofus <DGofus at aol.com>
Subject: Beer in Mail

Does anyone know the phone number for Beer across America? Also, I tried a
brew from Colorado called TommyKnocker Nut Brown(I think). Has anybody heard
of this, can it be bought outside of the state?


Thanks

Bob Fesmire
Madman Brewery
Pottstown, PA
Dgofus at aol.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 07:49:21 -0500
From: Bill Giffin <billg at ctel.net>
Subject: First wort hopping


Top of the morning to yea all,

I have used first wort hopping on 10-15 batches of beer.  All but two were
Pilsners. The two which were not Pilsners were English Bitter beer.  The
only other hop addition was at the boil, no finishing nor aroma hops were
added.  The amount of hops used for first wort hopping was 25g of noble hops.

First wort hopping for the Pilsners was wonderful.  Lot of hop aroma and
flavor, I was amazed that that much hop character would survive a 90-minute
boil, but it did big time.

First wort hopping of the English beers didn't work nearly as well as with
the Pilsners.  I used Hugh Baird pale ale malt for both of these two beers.
 I have wondered if perhaps the protein level in the malt wasn't high
enough to bond with the flavor and aroma oil in the hops.  Or perhaps it
was something else that was missing in the pale ale malt that didn't bond
with the flavor and aroma components.

I have found at least in my brewing that some bittering makes it to the
finished product as a result of first wort hopping.  I estimate that the
utilization is about 8%.  The 8% utilization figure has given me consistent
results compared to beers that were hopped in the more tradition manner.
Right or wrong it seems to give a reasonable estimation of bittering.

Bill 




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:27:12 -0500
From: haafbrau1 at juno.com
Subject: Warming chilled kegs

For some reason, I have a glut of spiced ale.  I have a 3 gal keg, and
several 1/2 gal bottles with carbonators attached. ( I needed the 5 gal
keg it was originally in.) All of this beer has been in the fridge for
some time, but I want to put one of my other kegs in to drink.  Can I
remove the keg from the fridge for a week or three, without causing off
flavors? 
Relax, Have a Homebrew, but keep an eye on your legislators!
Paul Haaf  Somewhere in the Pinelands of So. Jersey
haafbrau1 at juno.com

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:33:29 -0500
From: "R.Lewis" <brew at homebrewbeer.com>
Subject: Homebrew shops

I've been reading the posts here in the digest for a couple
of weeks on weather or not you should patronize your local
homebrew store.As a store owner myself I have to agree that I owe it to my
customers to be knowledgeable
and courtious.Why would someone want to come to my store just because 
it's there.I have to earn their business.A good store owner 
will listen to it's customers suggestions,order what the customer wants,
always have fresh ingredients,and know what they're talking about.I can't
expect someone to patronize my store because I am good for the community.
I believe I'm good for the community,but it's up to me to prove it,not the
customer.My patrons come in with their brews for me to taste,not to
schmooze,but to talk brewing.It's the commraderie of the brewing hobby
they want and so do I.Ordering mail order is fine for a brewer,if thats what
they want.Remember
this a dollar and cents world and if a mail order store has great
service,and good prices
than so be it.Again its up to the local homebrew store to earn their
business,they don't
owe us anything.In my area there are several homebrew stores and actually
thats a good thing
for the customer.Competition keeps us all on our toes.The customer winds up
the winner.
Thanks for letting me put in my two cents here.I just cringed when I kept
reading that customers
should schmooze us store owners and they owe it to us to come to our
stores.That would
be nice to think like that.It does'nt happen that way,we store owners have
to EARN IT!
Randy Lewis
Hudson River Brew Supplies
http://www.homebrewbeer.com
       Randy Lewis
"If you can Boil,You can brew"
 http://www.homebrewbeer.com
Hudson River Homebrewbeer Supplies



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:41:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: The Cask of Monte's Cornie

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

George asks about cask-conditioning in a cornie and the implications of 
hops in the brew...

George, I regularly do (did - haven't brewed in a LONG time :-( this. I 
use plug or fresh hops - never pellets! - and put them in a hop bag. The 
bag is sterilized and weighted just as when dry hopping a fermenter. 

Never had a large amount of hop particles come through, but it takes a 
lot longer than that usual one pint to clear the sediment from the bottom 
of the keg. I think the hop bag is retaining quite a bit of it, and you 
get a tad each time you draw beer until it is exhausted - about two 
pitchers worth (gallon). The results have been sublime! SOPP for my A/IPA's 
to get hellatious hop presence.

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brewing Page              http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 12:03:49 -0500
From: Mark Weaver <HeadBrewer at eci.com>
Subject: Cleaners / Iodosphor scum

Dave,


>  I'm not using b-brite for a sanitizer but what's up?
>
Why not just use TSP (Tri Sodium Phosphate) as the cleaner, and
iodosphor as
the sanitizer? While TSP is more "caustic" than B-Brite, it does a
better job
in my experience, and is less expensive.

As regards iodosphor, I have noticed in my cleaning that a lot of small
bubbles
(a foam like substance), collect at the top of the neck of the carboy.
However,
I have never come across this scum that is being described. I use soft
water in
my cleaning, and rinse everything several times to remove and cleansing
agents.
Also, when the foam has settled to the top, I then pour iodosphor/water
into the
carboy to displace the foam. (to completely sanitize the neck). I have
never had
the scum problem.

> Also, regarding idophor scum, I've seen it too. Last night, after
> cleaning a brand new carboy and soaking with idophor. Thin filmlike scum
> floated to the top. What up up with that? I'm wondering whether I should
> just go back to chlorox.
>
Hope that helps.

Prost!
Mark
- --
Mark Weaver - Brewer on the Loose
HeadBrewer at eci.com or
AwfulQuiet at aol.com
75'02 / 72tii / 87 Euro 318
"No, I don't brew heads....."
http://markweaver.com2tom.com/home.html



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 12:20:53 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Gravity and age

Brewers

I thought the original queston about thinner beers with time was an April
Fool gag, because, I thought, the answer was so obvious.  I guess from the
discussion, it isn't, and no one else has suggested what I've always felt
was the explanation.

My beers, regardless of style, typically continue a very slow fermentation
in the keg (or bottle).  Long ago (1979?), I read in Dave Line's Big Book
of brewing that this was due to slow fermentation of dextrins.  Seems to
explain it for me.  Some beers I don't drink up very quickly, and I can
rely on this to keep carbonation going without a CO2 connection.  Sometimes
they even get overcarbonated.  Anyway,  the beers dry out and get somewhat
less sweet (=thinner?, not exactly).  In the short term, this makes the
balance shift toward bitter.  Then with more time, the bitterness will also
age down  It's a race to see which will end up ahead when I finally finish
the keg.

An example of this is the Irish-American Ale that I posted the recipe for
in Feb. (I think).  This is essentially (from memory) a 1.046 dark red ale
with 20% corn flakes, 7% each crystal and flaked barley, and 2 oz. choc/5
gal., hopped to low 20's by target.  For the St. Pat's party, this was a
somewhat sweet, corn evident, low bitterness ale.  Nice and complex, but
appealing to the Killian's drinkers as well.  Now, only a few weeks later,
it has dried out, and the bitterness is coming forward (may be closer to
mid 20s), as are the chocolate nuances.  It's really tasty and extremely
well balanced.  Kind of like a best bitter, but not richly malty like an
ESB.  I like it even better than before!  (Too much, I had 3-1/2 pints last
evening (TGIF) starting before dinner while I was cooking - I really should
decide if I'm going to have beer before, with or after dinner, or at most
two out of three - all three and I'm wiped out).

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 13:37:43 -0500
From: Paul Edwards <pedwards at iquest.net>
Subject: dry hopping in corny keg

George et al,

I cask condition in corny kegs and serve via beer engine quite often.
For dry hopping in the cask, I use a large SS tea-ball.  It's a sphere
made of fine mesh SS screen that separates at its equator into two
halves.  Each half will hold one hop plug, or one ounce total.  I
sanitize the tea-ball in iodophor or phos acid sanitizer (FSD-34), 
then using "flamed" kitchen tongs, hold it open and put in 1 or 2 
plugs, close it, latch it, and drop it into the corny.

A _few_ bits and pieces of hops will find their way thru the mesh, but
not enough to be noticeable by most people.

If i'm not going to be drinking all the beer up right away and I'm
afraid the beer will acquire _too much_ dry hop character, I just push
the beer over to an empty corny via a liquid to liquid hose, when the
beer has got the hop character I'm looking for.

I got my tea-ball at a specialty coffee/tea shop, but now my local HB
shop carries them.

Hope this helps...

- --Paul


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 13:09:41 -0800
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Re: BT Koelsch Article 


> Perhaps I may be unduely upset, but BT is the only quality brewing 
> magazine of which I am aware which is aimed specifically at homebrewers.  
> I have valued their articles in the past and hope to do so again in the
> future. I just hate to plop down $6.50 and get 8 pages of such poor
> quality material (Ok, the decoction/RIMS stuff more than made up for it).
> Is BT in some sort of editorial crisis??  What happened to Jim Busch?
>
> David

Just to let you know, you're not alone.  I, and I know of more than a
few others, have been questioning the editorial process at BT lately.
Maybe we've just been spoiled, but it definately seems to have taken a
step backwards.  I do like some of the changes, but primarily I'm
concerned about the articles.  It seems that if the authors aren't
able to self-edit their work, then it doesn't get done at all.  I'm
not expecting a scholarly journal, but for a magazine that comes out
every two months, and aims itself at the "high-end" home and
pseudo-craft brewer, I would think that the editorial role would be
highly emphasized, not left to the authors.  No offense to any of the
authors, but we already have Zymurgy if we want to read shobbily
researched columns, factual errors, or poorly-designed experiments.

I guess I've had that on my chest for a while, and had to get it off. 

SM


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 13:22:15 -0800
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Re: First Wort Hopping 


> This thread was an active one, with several folks pledging to carry out
> side-by-side brewing experiments to detail the nuances of the style, but
> not many actually reported back.
> 
> Peter Garofalo

I haven't tried any side-by-side experiments, but I have worked up a
few recipes using FWH.  Best results so far are in a Eam-stay Beer.
One thing I have noticed is that the higher AA hops seem to work
better for FWH, than the more traditional aroma hops.  I've FWH'd with
quite a bit of low AA noble hops and gotten less bitterness than my
numbers would predict.  I've been using an extraction rate of 20% for
FWH, no matter the boil gravity.

Anyone else noticed similar (or different) trends?

SM


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:17:28 -0800 (PST)
From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick)
Subject: Re: cask conditioning in Corny kegs

I have had the best success using a muslin "hop bag" loaded with 1/2 oz.
plug of East Kent Goldings for a cask ale or cream ale in my corny keg.
Since these were whole hop flowers, none of the leaf matter escaped the
muslin bag. I simply threw the plug in a bag (unsanitized, ooh scary!),
tied the end, and dropped it in my corny after it was filled. Seal the lid
quickly (I believe someone posted in the past about CO2 foamage spilling
over if you don't close up the top right away, nucleation sites and
all...), force carbonate or condition with brewing sugar of choice. My
friend Peter uses the same method with a beer engine (ala the BYO article
from months past). God results, from my tastings. 1/2 oz-1 oz. of a mild
hop like EKGs seems best (per 5 gallons), while a little less of Cascade
will suffice. Cascade will be grassy at first, but mellow with time. I
wonder if you steep the cascade in warm water to remove chlorophyll & some
tannins, would you get a better end result for dry hopping? Worth
experimenting, I think. After all, we want hop oils, which will be leached
out with the alcohol, right? Maybe I'm thinking of THC and that other
"herb" that gives our noble hop such a bad reputation ;-)

 -Sean




Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 00:48:09 -0800
From: "Peter Junger" <pjunger at direct.ca>
Subject: Fw: "Old Peculier"


- -----Original Message-----
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
To: Peter Junger <pjunger at direct.ca>
Cc: janitor@hbd.org <janitor@hbd.org>
Date: Saturday, April 04, 1998 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: "Old Peculier"


>Peter,
>
>Please send articles for publication in the Digest to post@hbd.org. Thank
>you.
>
>See ya!
>
>Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
>Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
>HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
>The Home Brewing Page              http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
>
>
>On Sat, 4 Apr 1998, Peter Junger wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear Janitor:
>>
>> In an attempt to help your co-respondent requesting information on "Old
>> Peculier" I submit the following.
>>
>> A good brewing buddy and old Yorkshire hand told me of the Theakston
brewery
>> where this noble beverage is made.  He approximates it in bottles but
tells
>> me he has never quite got the same effect as the cask conditioned.
>>
>> The description he likes quoting is from Michael Jackson's pocket book on
>> beers:
>>
>> "Never mind the spelling "Old Peculier" xxx(1.058 - 60) is a strong dark
ale
>> with a sweet richness that is positively embracing in the
cask-conditioned
>> draught.  In bottled form, it is as satisfying as a chaste kiss.  If it
is
>> chilled, so is the kiss."
>>
>> Hope it helps
>>
>>
>> Pete Junger
>>
>



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 06:51:25 EDT
From: greattaste at juno.com (Great Taste of the Midwest)
Subject: 12th Annual Great Taste of the Midwest<sm>

Subject: 12th Annual Great Taste of the Midwest
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:43:55 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <199803301743.MAA05700 at web01.globecomm.net>

The Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild 
proudly announces the 

12th Annual Great Taste of the Midwest<sm>
August 8, 1998
1-6pm
Olin-Turville Park
Madison, Wisconsin

The Great Taste is one of North America's longest-running craft beer
festivals.
(as far as we know, only the GABF is older.  The Oregon Brewers Festival
is one year younger.  does anyone know of a craft beer event with a
longer history?)

Even if it's not quite the oldest, we think it's the best.

Enjoy your beers outdoors in a relaxed lakeshore setting without having
to wait in endless queues for your next sample.  Spread out on the grass
or under a tree with friends as you enjoy your beers.  Listen to
musicians strolling through the park.  This is what beer tasting should
be!

The Great Taste features more than 350 different beers from a maximum of
90 breweries and brewpubs from throughout the region.  For your $18
ticket, you get a commemorative tasting glass (look for something pretty
spectacular this year!), festival program booklet, door prize entry, and
(most important) as many different 2 ounce samples as you can responsibly
consume during the event.  NO beer tokens or tickets!!  We want you to
educate yourselves about the different beers and not let having to
pay-per-beer discourage you from trying an unfamiliar style.

Tickets for the event go on sale May 1.  Checks for $18 per ticket should
be made payable to:
Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild

Your order must also include a self-addressed-stamped-envelope.  Tickets
will be mailed after your check clears.

Send orders to:
Great Taste of the Midwest / MHTG
Post Office Box 1365
Madison, Wisconsin  53701-1365

If you have any questions not answered here, send them to the same postal
address with an SASE or to GreatTaste at juno.com (the Badgerspace address
will expire at the end of April)

Proceeds from the event benefit Community Radio WORT/89.9 FM, Madison.

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino, Vice President
Madison Homebrewers & Tasters Guild
and the Great Taste of the Midwest<sm>
            http:// www.globaldialog.com/madbrewers

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 04:21:15 PDT
From: "Gregg Soh" <greggos at hotmail.com>
Subject: Yeasts for Warmer Climates

Questions questions! What would we do without the HBD? It's always been 
a great help to those just starting out. I've got another one for those 
in the know:

I brew in a very warm climate, so I use a chest freezer with a 
thermostat. It is always 85F - 90F, majority of the time ~86F. Wanting 
to brew more at a time than just a single 5 gallon batch that will fit 
into the freezer, I was wondering if anyone knows of yeast strains that 
are suited to these high temperatures that don't throw off wild flavours 
at that. I was contemplating Brewtek's 'Australian Ale' strain that's 
described as more forgiving at warm temps, but even then, at 86F? Anyone 
opinions?

Thanks,
Gregg

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 08:24:51
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: No Hands HLT- heater element insulation

huskers at olywa.net (Jason Henning) asked how to insulate electric water
heater elements used in a HLT.  Assumming we're talking electrical
insulation of the terminals:

First, I stole the idea, along with several more from gadget savy Ken
Schartz (THANKS Ken!) and added a bit.  Details are on the electric boiler
web page (via URL in sig. line below).  Short version:  Get a PCV pipe cap
that's about the same size as the fixed hex. faced "nut" on the end of the
heater element.  Too tighter is better than too loose.  If needed, chisel
notches into the inside of the cap that'll accept the nut on the element.
Saw 6 or so axial kerfs about 3/4" deep into the cap measured from the open
end of the cap.  Apply cap to the end of the element and clamp it into
place with a hose clamp positioned over the nut.  If you're not like me and
don't constantly improve gadgets, skip the kerfs and hose clamp and fasten
it in place like Ken does with some silicone sealant (details at his great
page:  http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy).

Two caveats: 1) The Natl. Electric Code say is that exposed noncurrent
carrying parts must be grounded.  The PVC cap renders the element's nut
"nonexposed", *BUT* I use a grounding lug made from slit, opened and
pounded flat Cu pipe under the metal nut.  IMHO, this is *mandantory* if
one uses a metal container for the HLT.  2) A GFCI is also mandantory.

Finally, the stirrer in the HLT that Kyle uses in his No Hands HLT is a
great addition.  Details on how to make a bit different one are on my
boiler page.  


c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net 
http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 08:57:14
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: CO2 cylinder overfilling

Just had my CO2 cylinder filled.  Actually, OVER-filled, and by an outfit
that refills millions of cylinders a year no less!  My usual SOP with
propane cylinders is to crack the cylinder valve before connecting the
regulator to purge dirt or anything that might clog the regulator.
Unfortunately, I skipped it in this case since the cylinder didn't sit
around and the outlet looked clear.  When the cylinder was valved into the
regulator, the cylinder-side gauge needle twirled to over 2500 psig!!!  The
regulator also got noticably cooler.  Disconnected the regulator and bleed
an alarming amount of CO2 *liquid*.  Fortunately the regulator still works
but it sure behaved strangely as it was trying to pass the liquid CO2.
Much more importantly, it didn't explode.  

YMMV since the amount of "overpressure" is a function of amount of vapor
space in a cylinder (volume above any dip tube) and and the temps. of the
CO2 during filling and later as it warms and the liquid expands.  From now
on, I'm gonna 1) tell the filler to underfill it and 2) crack the valve
immediately after a cylinder is filled and again before it's connected to
the regulator and maybe even periodically during transport.  When the hydro
is done, I'm going to replace the valve with one with a longer dip tube.


c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net 
http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:42:52 -0500
From: "Ray Estrella" <ray-estrella at email.msn.com>
Subject: Keg conditioning

   Hello to all,
George De Piro asks,

>I have been considering cask conditioning at home in corny kegs.  I've
>seen brewers dry hop and cask condition beer in firkins.  Can this be
>done with corny kegs?  How is it that the hops don't clog the valves
>or end up in the drinker's glass?

  I keg all my beers, with the exception of Belgian Triples and
Biere de Gaurdes.  But big beers like Strong Scotch Ale, Barleywine,
English Strongs, etc. are not the kind of drink I need 5 gallons of in
the fridge.  So all of those styles I keg, carbonate, and condition for
3 - 6 months in the basement.  Then I CPF into 12 and 22 oz bottles,
and put them back in the basement.  Refrigerate a couple at a time.
  To dry hop in the keg without getting hop particles, get one of the
small hop bags from your favorite homebrew shop, sanitize by boiling,
add hops and a couple of marbles.  (Boiled along with the bag)  Tie a
piece of 4 lb fishing line to the bag.  Place bag in keg about two thirds
down, and hold in place by closing the keg.  The gasket will hold it, but
the line is will not cause a leaky seal.

Ray Estrella   Cottage Grove   MN
ray-estrella at msn.com

****** Never Relax, Constantly Worry....have a better Homebrew ******






Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:36:11 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Centrifugation,

Brewsters:

Tom Clark says:

>Dave, gravity does cause some fluids to "settle".  Otherwise, a 

>centrifuge would not work.

No doubt centrifugation allows insoluble matter which has
a material density greater than the solvent or hydrated
matter (like proteins) which isn't really dissolved to be spun
down.  These would separate spontaneously under the
force of gravity, given time and centrifugation just hurries it up.

I said "simple solutions" will not separate spontaneously
under the force of gravity and stand by what I said.

We had some confusion a year or two ago about "heavy"
gasses supposedly settling out of gaseous mixtures and
I didn't want anyone to get the impression that such a
spontaneous separation due to gravity is possible in
either case for such mixtures.

It is possible for gases having a higher density than air
to settle to the floor if they have never been
mixed into the air and likewise for hydrogen to rise to the
ceiling in an unmixed stream.  This requires a non-turbulent
flow ( sort of like pouring extract syrup carefully into water
and finding it puddle on the bottom)  of these gases to get
this kind of potentially dangerous set of conditions. But
spontaneous separation they do not do anymore than
extract syrup settles out after being stirred in.


Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  

Voice e-mail OK 


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun,  5 Apr 1998 12:40:37, -0500
From: sdginc at prodigy.com ( STEVE GARRETT)
Subject: FWH IBUs

I too am a proponent of First Wort Hopping. I love the integral hop
flavor imparted to the beer. I use it not just for pils, but 
virtually 
every type of beer I brew. I love the flavor of East Kent Goldings
that has been FWH'ed into my E.S.B's.

To avoid too-high IBU bitterness calculations for FWH, I enter a 
fake 20 minute boil time to my recipe calculator program.
Does this sound about right? 
How do others handle this problem?
Does anyone have some experimental data?

Cheers!
Steve Garrett
Sdginc at prodigy.com
Englewood, CO 80112



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 20:04:12 +0100
From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se>
Subject: An Aussie Thanks!

I have been to Australia many times.

I particularly like the people and the fact that it is a BIG country
that people have not managed to completely screw up yet (though there
are folks working very hard on that project at this very moment).

One sore point for a person of my interests, has been the beer,
however.  Particularly in the "post-Bond era" (an industrial magnate who
included breweries among his acquisitions), have the commercially
available beers become frighteningly homogeneous.... high alcohol,
highly carbonated, low in bitterness (and that derived from a varietal
that I have affectionately titled "Pride of Ringworm"), and nonexistant
malt flavours.

This visit, however, I took the time to visit, and taste, what
homebrewers, and the surviving microbreweries are doing, mileage be
damded.

I can only constitute that "BREWING IS ALIVE AND WELL, AND LIVING IN
AUSTRALIA".... ....but rarely available to the public.

Some of the high points were a home brewer who did one of the best
knockoffs of a German Pils that I have ever tasted (mind you he tripple
decocted, and his kids now have to hang their clothes out on the line,
because daddy has burnt out the family clothes drier, drying his 5 kg.
sacks of self germinated malt..... now THAT'S my kind of fanaticism!),
and the microbrewer who used the "wrong" malt, the "wrong " yeast sort,
"wrong" mash and fermentation schedule, and still made a quite pleasant,
and reasonable representation of a Czech pilsner (I'd heartily reccomend
visiting the "Wig and Pen" in Canberra and tasting Mr. Pass's creations
if you are in the area).   I guess it just goes to show that when you
know what you're doing, you're taste buds might be a better reference
than all of the existing literature.

In short, I found the brewers there presenting a refreshingly "down to
earth" attitude, and given the materials they have to work with (there
are very strict quarantines on imported plant material), I was surprised
to see how far some people had extended their productions, particularly
when I compare with similar tasting trips to their North American
counterparts, who seem to have an unlimited supply of raw materials
(perhaps therein the problem(?)).

I would just like to extend a very public "thank you" to all who allowed
me to enter into their brewing world there, and express my
congratulations to the creativity and perseverence that I was exposed
to.

Dr. Pivo


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 17:14:11 -0700
From: Mark Weaver <HeadBrewer at eci.com>
Subject: Skimming off foam during the boil....

Fellow Brewers,

Hi all. Thought I might run this buy everyone:

Does anyone know of any detrimental effect to skimming
off the foam that collects right before and right after the boil
starts? It seems to have a lot of grey proteins / other matter
from the sparge...

Thanks!

Prost!
Mark
- --
Mark Weaver - Brewer on the Loose
HeadBrewer at eci.com
75 '02 / 72 '02tii / 87 Euro 318
"No, I don't brew heads...."
http://markweaver.com2tom.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 16:56:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: erikvan at ix.netcom.com
Subject: RE: Moving Hops

In HBD #2678, Andrew Avis asked:

>It's spring, so I suppose a flood of hop growing questions is not far 
>behind.  I'm pleased to post the first one: I'm moving, and I'd like to 
>take my cascade hop plant with me.  Is it wise to dig up the plant before 
>any growth is visible, or should I wait until the vine has started to 
>grow?

I too am moving, and decided to pull up my hallertaur and cascade hops.
Here in San Diego, the season starts early, so they both had growth 
already. From what I seen, they are doing fine, existing growth and all. 
I put them into 5 gallon pots, and will transfer them when I buy my house. 
I also purchased more rhizomes, some with mininal growth, others with none 
yet, and they also went into 5 gal pots. In other words, I don't think it 
really matters, just make sure you get thick root sections, each containing 
1 to 2 buds. Doing this will ensure proper transplanting. By the way, be 
careful with that cascade, the quarentine this year has made the Cascade a 
"rare" find(I took four transplants of mine).

Good luck,

Erik Vanthilt
erikvan at ix.netcom.com

Check out the:
The Virtual Brewery
Http://www.netcom.com/~erikvan/brewery.html





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 03:57:57 -0700
From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net>
Subject: Mineral Salt Experiments / Some Side Issues

I decided the only way I was going to answer my questions regarding the
flavor contributions of various salts was to do some testing.  I was
stuck at my mother-in-law's house for a long weekend and decided to pick
up a couple of 12 packs of Bud and check it out.  My procedure was
simple, mix various amounts of salts into a bowl with a known quantity
of Bud and then taste to identify the flavor contribution.  I tested a
neutral beer (straight Bud), a bitter beer (added hop oil to Bud), and a
sweet beer (added table sugar to Bud). Here is a summary of my findings:

Sulfate
Neutral Beer - I mixed about 50 ppm of gypsum at a time into the beer to
note the effects.  The salt was not even noticeable until about 75-100
ppm at which point it provided a fullness to the beer.  At 150-200 ppm
the beer started to dry out, and at 250-300 ppm the beer was very dry
and slightly minerally.

Bitter Beer - The bitterness was very rounded, smooth, and less sharp at
150-200 ppm of gypsum.  Values higher than 250 started to make the beer
taste minerally and less bitter.

Sweet Beer - At 150-200 ppm rounded out the sweetness and higher than
250 made the beer less sweet and minerally.

Chloride
For all three beer types (neutral/bitter/sweet) at about 100-150 ppm it
increased the fullness of the beer and rounded out the flavors.  I used
calcium chloride for this test.

Sodium
I found no redeeming qualities for this ion (except as salt). In all
cases, if the concentration was higher than 100 ppm it made the beer
minerally, somewhat metallic, and almost bitter.  Perhaps the problem is
that I used baking soda (NaCO3) and I tasted the effects of carbonate
also.  I did use salt also (see below) and found similar results, that
if Na was > 100 ppm it had a negative effect on beer flavor.

Salt (Sodium + Chloride)
I only tested this in the neutral beer.  Every salt addition will add
about 3 units of chloride and 4 units of sodium.  I found than when
sodium was 100 ppm and chloride was 75 ppm the flavor contribution was
very good.  Helped to increase the fullness of the beer, round out
flavors, and add a slight saltiness.  When I was a kid my dad used to
add a little salt to his budmilloors - he indicated that it made the
beer taste better and that his dad and grandfather used to do this too. 
For my testing, when the concentrations were greater than 100 ppm it
resulted in a minearlly/bitter taste.

Calcium/Carbonate/Magnesium - I did not test for the taste effects from
these ions (although, perhaps I did and did not know it).

Summary:  I could not detect any ion at concentrations less than 75 ppm.
Sulfate in concetrations of 150-200 ppm can be used to smooth out the
bitterness and sweetness of a beer.  Almost all beers might benefit from
the rounding effects of 75-100 ppm of chloride.  Sodium should be
avoided and be limited to less than 50 ppm in any beer.

It would be interesting to perform the same tests for different color
beers, sour beers, malty beers, and beers with differing gravities. 
Maybe I will save this for another weekend at the mother-in-law's house.
Disclaimers:  YMMV so do your own testing, and Smoky the Bear says that
in order to avoid HBD flames consider the following:

1)  I measured the salts in grains with a shooter's reloading scale
(accurate to 0.1 grains).  This is not a lab quality instrument.

2)  Taste perceptions are subjective, and my tastes my be more or less
sensitive than yours.

3)  The salts I used to represent each ion may not be the best way to
evaluate their flavor effects.

4)  Bud may not be the best type for a neutral beer.

5)  Mixing the salts in cold beer may not have enabled them to dissolve
adequately, although I did mix vigorously.

6)  I do not know the ion profile of Bud.
************************

Side issue #1, I picked up a bottle of Rolling Rock along with the Bud
to try and identify different defects:

Acetaldehyde (Bud) - Yep, it sure is there, the aroma and slight taste
of
freshly cut green apples.

DMS (Rolling Rock) - I smelled my mother's house on St. Paddy's day: 
the
smell of cooked cabage.  I found this smell/taste so disgusting in beer
that I had to pour it out.
***************************

Side Issue #2 - Looks like the great HBD protein rest debate is still
rolling along.  I asked Louis Bonham if he could do some protein rest
tests for his BT article to maybe get some real data on this issue. He
indicated he was going to look into the feasibility of these tests.
Until then I guess we will just have to keep quoting our favorite xpurt
and go by what works for each of us in practice.  To be continued I'm
sure...


Kyle Druey
Bakersfield, CA


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 16:21:00 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: stirring

>Instead of the aeration stone, how about adapting John's flask
>stirrer to work with a carboy, or, with a plastic bucket, for that
>matter?

I don't see any reason why it couldn't be done.  In fact I seem to
recall someone mentioning that did something similar after they
accidentally pitched their stir magnet along with the yeast.

I just did a batch in which I continuously stirred and aerated the
starter (sorry Al but I already had this yeast started when I
exchanged notes with you).  I can't say that I got more yeast than
normal but the lag time did seem a lot shorter.  I pitched at
about 1400 and by the time I went to bed at 2300 there were bubbles
coming out of the blow-off tube which was submerged in iodaphor water.

I want to make a few procedural changes but I seemed to get a
better yeast crop by using the aerate/stir method than my previous
method of aerate and airlock.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200




Return to table of contents

---