---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  'Tis the season (Some Guy)
  Christopher Tkach: Where are you? ("Hans E. Hansen")
  RE: Cask Conditioning in Corny Kegs (Jeff Grey)
  peculier (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Mead in Mississauga? (Joe Guy)
  Re: Floating thingys ("Timothy Green")
  RIMS design questions ("Kensler, Paul")
  Overfill ("David R. Burley")
  Old Peculier ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  Re: Centrifugation nonsense (Mark Riley)
  Stove-Top Boiling (greg_young)
  BT & Upcoming Stuff ("Louis K. Bonham")
  Re: Tommyknocker (was Beer in Mail) ("Michael R. Tucker")
  NO SUBJECT ("David T. Peters")
  FW Spicing? (EFOUCH)
  Mash Hopping (Stephen Cavan)
  Koelsch article ("Bryan L. Gros")
  cask ale from cornies (Dave Sapsis)
  BT comments ("Jim Busch")
  Grand Cru and Burner Info (Wade Hutchison)
  Big Thank You ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Cracking Specialty Grains (Kelly S Underwood)
  Dry hopping in the keg (John Wilkinson)
  Jethro on .08/ Roadside Testing/Schreier Web Analyses ("Rob Moline")
  6th Annual Dominion Cup (SJarr93801)




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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:08:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: 'Tis the season

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

As evidenced by that lovely forwarded reply to a misdirected post in 
yesterday's digest, the s-l-o-w digest season is upon us. During the next 
several months, I'd like you all to do something for Karl and me:
 
Before you light the torches, grab the garden implements, and run to the
windmill in which those monstrous janitors are know to be hiding, keep in
mind that we need to sleep, eat, etc., too and did not intend for that
errant bit of spam or whatever to slip through. It's just that, as long as
the queue remains at a day or less, the possibility that we will miss
something exists. 

That said, let's get back to brewing...

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brewing Page              http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html




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Date: Sun, 05 Apr 98 20:09:00 
From: "Hans E. Hansen" <hansh at teleport.com>
Subject: Christopher Tkach: Where are you?

Extreme apologies to the collective.

Christopher Tkach: your Internet provider is rejecting my attempts
to send the Calorie program.  Has you e-mail address changed?
I get the error "address has permanent fatal errors".

Sorry to all for the personal communication.

Hans E. Hansen
hansh at teleport.com




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Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 00:24:34 -0400
From: Jeff Grey <grey at ameritech.net>
Subject: RE: Cask Conditioning in Corny Kegs

George,

I have been dry hopping my beer in my kegs for years.  What you need is
about 2oz of your favorite hops, a hop bag and some sanitized glass
marbles.  Put your hops (whole or plugs, no pellets) in the hop bag with
your marbles.  Rack your beer onto the hop bag & marbles in your keg and
let it sit for about two weeks.  When your draw off your beer it will be
clear with a great hop aroma.

Happy Hopping,

Jeff Grey


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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 07:34:29 +0200
From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
Subject: peculier

Brent sorry I cut your lastname (oberlbk at NU.COM) asked about Old
Peculier of the Theakston brewery,

I have been looking through kg of books to find this beer.
	In The Real Ale Drinkers Almanac (Roger Protz) it says: OG 1058  ABV
5.6 %
Ingredients: pale malt, crystal malt, maize and cane sugar. Fuggles and
other hops, whole and pellets.
Tasting notes: massive winey bouquet of fat fruit.
Palate: toffe and roast malt in the mouth, deep bitter-sweet finish with
delicate hop underpinning.
Comments: a famous dark, vinous, "pass the Stilton "(=cheese) old ale.

What I would try is:
aiming for OG 1058 with: 
5 % crystal malt (dark)
5 % maizeflakes
5 % brown canesugar
85 % pale ale malt

Cascade hops enough for some bitterness and balance with the sweetness
rest at 53 deg.C for 15 minutes
rest at 67 deg.C for 45 minutes
rest at 73 deg.C until J2 neg

I read in Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy (Dave Line 1985):
"good example of an old fashioned ale"
15 litres water
2000 gm dark malt extract
250   gm crushed roast barley
250   gm crushed crystal malt
1000 gm soft dark brown sugar
60     gm Fuggles hops
5 saccharin tablets  (I wouldn't do that)
The extract and the malt grains are boiled with hops for 45 minutes.
Primed with 100 gm black treacle.

I don't have access to Internet (just E-mail).
Greetings from Holland, 
Hans Aikema



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Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 04:52:40 -0500
From: Joe Guy <joeguy at idirect.com>
Subject: Mead in Mississauga?

Hi! I am looking for a place in Mississauga - or at least southern Ontario
 - where I can brew mead. 

I have found a lot of beer and wine brew-your-owns - but not mead.

Any ideas, anyone?





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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:27:43 -0400
From: "Timothy Green" <TimGreen at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Floating thingys

Jay wrote:

>I decided to brew on short notice the other night (extract American
>wheat), and when I transferred the cooled wort to the fermenter, I got
>little or no hot break.  I figured, oh well, I'll just rack in a few
>days.  However, today (2 days later) I have pea to marble sized lumpy
>thingys floating around in the carboy.  I used Irish moss in the boil,
>but have never seen this kind of coagulate.  They have formed a loose
>layer about 2-3 inches deep on the bottom of the carboy.  Will they
>settle out?  How can I rack off of this mess without losing a lot of the
>beer?  Any thoughts?  BTW, yeast was Wyeast Swedish Ale (figured I'd
>give it a try).


The last time I say anything like you describe, I used Brewer's Secret dry
yeast, and 2 days later I had odd shaped things floating in my wort. As it
turned out, the floating material was te yeast! Aside from being a very
agressive  strain of yeast, it floculates in large chunks.
After 4 days I had what you described, 2" deep sludge. When I racked it to
a bottling bucket on day 9, I swirled the primary wort to generate a
whirlpool
effect and then racked to the other bucket. The yeast mounded up in the
center of the bucket bottom and I was able to rack of clear beer down to the
limit of the stopper on my racking cane.
Hope that helps...

Tim Green




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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:09:54 -0600 
From: "Kensler, Paul" <paul.kensler at wilcom.com>
Subject: RIMS design questions

I am starting to plan for expanding my brewing setup to a RIMS-type
3-vessel system, and I  hope to draw from others' experience...  I have
learned a lot from previous HBDs and from several users' web pages, but
I still have a few basic questions about design and construction.

First, my plans:  vessels will be a combination of converted kegs and
15-gallon kettles.  The frame will be 2-tiered with the HLT on the upper
tier, feeding the mash/lauter tun via gravity.  I will use one pump to
recirculate the wort and to pump the finished sweet wort to the boiling
kettle.  I will use flexible tubing (high temperature plastics) where
possible to connect the pump to the various in/out fittings and valves.

1.	Regarding the return manifold in the mash tun:  I have seen
several nice designs for the manifold itself, but not much information
on how the manifold is suspended above the mash.  More importantly, how
is the level of the manifold adjusted to accommodate the varying mash
heights?  Clearly, since I am using flexible tubing the height
adjustment won't be a problem, but how is it suspended at the proper
height while still facilitating the use of the mash tun lid?  I want to
keep the return manifold below the level of the liquid, but not resting
on the grain bed.
2.	For those parts of the system where I will use copper tubing or
pipes instead of flexible tubing, is welding necessary?  Specifically,
have others had problems using only flexible copper tubing and
compression fittings instead of welding the various elbows and pipes
together?  Is there a way to create a leak-proof connection with the
rigid pipes and fittings without welding?  I haven't learned to weld
yet, so I would prefer to avoid the added cost and trouble if possible.
3.	I have seen references to "SwageLock" brand compression fittings
 - what makes these worth the added expense ($12 for a compression
fitting)?
4.	How much should I worry about the percent open area of the false
bottom?  Is it easy to compact the grain bed by using a false bottom
that has a too-low percent open area?


Thanks in advance for the suggestions and input.


Paul Kensler
Plano, TX



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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:13:03 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Overfill

Brewsters:

I'm puzzled by C.D. Pritchards results with his CO2 tank

> When the cylinder was valved into the
>regulator, the cylinder-side gauge needle twirled to over
2500 psig!!!  The
>regulator also got noticably cooler.  Disconnected
the regulator and bleed
>an alarming amount of CO2 *liquid*.

CO2 is in liquid form in the tank and, if so, the
pressure in the tank would be dependent only on the
tank temperature until all the liquid was exhausted. That is,
it is impossible to get a higher pressure in the tank of pure
CO2 whether the tank was half full or completely full.
The tank pressure gauge should read the same.  Also,
if the CO2 is sprayed through a restricted orifice into the
air one does not get liquid CO2 but Dry Ice snow as people
who  have operated a CO2 fire extinguisher know.

I think you should go back to the filler and have him replace
the cylinder, as I have no idea what you have in that tank.
- ----------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  

Voice e-mail OK 


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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:02:14 -0700
From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org>
Subject: Old Peculier

Someone requested an extract recipe for Old Peculier.

Ray Daniels had an all grain recipe in his article on Old Ales in
Zymurgy a while back and included hints on converting it to
extract.

Dave Line's Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy also had a
recipe (that I'm quoting from memory).  Mind you, the recipe is
for 5 British gallons, a unit first used by the Celts I think, and
its bigger than an US gallon (or maybe that was smaller).
Anyway:

4# dark dry extract
2# brown sugar
1/2# crystal
1/2# black malt
1 oz fuggles hops in boil (60)
 oz EKG at 30 and again at 15
saccharine equivalent to the sweetness of 5 tsp sugar
1/4# black treacle to prime

Some people think that the saccharine was necessary back
when all yeasts were overattenuative dry yeasts.  I've always
used liquid yeast, and always skipped the saccharine.

Every recipe I've seen calls for about two pounds of refined
or invert sugars, or corn syrup.  This may be intended to save
a little money or to lighten up the body a bit and achieve that
"good beer but not great beer" thinness that I associate with all
of the S&N products I've sampled.

I like to use enough Alexanders pale extract to achieve an OG
of about 1.060 (about 9#) plus the specialty malts and make an
all malt beer.  I use a whole pound of crystal, about 1/3 pound
of the black malt, and  pound of chocolate malt.

I have used Target hops as well as Fuggles for the 60 min boil,
shoot for about 28 IBU.

Treacle is a low-refined type of molasses I think, and it is
absolutely necessary for the flavor of OP.  Lyles is the brand
I've seen, Brewer's Resource has it, as perhaps do gourmet
shops and places catering to Anglophiles.  Dave in Dallas
(formerly Dave in Sydney, before that Dave in Bristol --- same guy,
he just moves around a lot) turned me on to his priming by weight
method which I lost, but you can read about it (Dave's page is
sponsored by the HBD at hbd.org).  Since I usually keg, I have
also had good luck stirring about 1/4 # of treacle into the wort
at the end of the boil.

I tend to use Wyeast 1968 a lot, but any good British Ale yeast
should work well.

Good luck,
Randy in Modesto


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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:27:56 -0700
From: Mark Riley <mriley at netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Centrifugation nonsense

Mr. Burley, in his tireless efforts to day-in and day-out consume
5 percent of the bandwidth of this forum, blessed us with:

>I said "simple solutions" will not separate spontaneously
>under the force of gravity and stand by what I said.

Gee, and I thought we were talking about beer here... ;-/

Mark Riley



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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:51:51 -0400
From: greg_young at saunderscollege.com
Subject: Stove-Top Boiling


In attempts to perform a full-volume stove-top boil, I've been trying
different insulation and brew kettle options, but nothing seems to work as
effectively as I would like. Has anyone tried spliting the full volume in
half and boiling in two kettles? Obviously the hops would have to be split
accordingly, but does anyone see any other cons of such a process? Will the
hop utilization suffer? This is my last hope in keeping the brewing process
indoors, so I anxiosly await any feedback--it may result in burner-shopping
in the near future. Thanks...

Greg Young
Philly, PA




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Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 13:49:15 -0500
From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham at phoenix.net>
Subject: BT & Upcoming Stuff

Greetings:

FWIW, here's the tentative list of topics to be covered in the BT
Experimental Brewer columns for the rest of the year:

(1) March/April (now in the mail):    Elements of Analysis: How to Set
Up a Small Brewing Laboratory.

(2) May/June (already written and at the galley stage of production):
Elements of Analysis II: Ten Basic Laboratory Tests.

(3) July/August (being written):    No Sparge Brewing.  Side-by-side lab
and blind taste tests of sparged vs. unsparged beers produced from the
same mash.  This article will also feature a sidebar on the ASBC
Triangle Test, which is the industry-standard method of determining
whether there are perceptable differences between two beers.

(4) Sept/Oct:    Partial Mash v. All Grain.  Conventional wisdom is that
all grain is better.  But logic will also tell you that many all grain
beers may be better because they're brewed by more experienced brewers,
who do things like use wort chillers, pitch big starters, force
carbonate and counterpressure bottle, etc.  What will happen in a
controlled experiment where the *only* variable is that one batch of
pale ale gets about 90% of its points from high grade malt extract?
Will conventional wisdom be borne out by statistics and the ruthlessly
cold razor of the ASBC Triangle Test?

(5) Nov./Dec.: Either:

    (A)    First Wort Hopping.  Split batch experiment, with aroma hops
added pre-boil in one batch, and 15 minutes before the end of the boil
in the other.  Samples blind tasted per ASBC Triangle test.  Also, IBU
analysis of the two -- which hopefully will give us some hard data on
what kind of difference in IBU levels can be expected from FWH
vs.conventional aroma hopping.

OR

    (B)    Use of Vitamin C as a Preservative.  Before the advent of
vacuum evacuation botting lines, vitamin C was a common additive in
bottled beer to retard oxidation.  Since few craft brewers (and no
amateur brewers) can afford state-of-the-art bottling lines, could this
"obsolete" but inexpensive technique help your beer -- especially beer
that may be subjected to rough handling and temperature fluctuations?
Side-by-side tests of treated vs. untreated samples of the same beer
over a period of time and under varying conditions may give some
interesting data.

For 1999 -- The HBD Palexperiment (probably several articles and column
pieces, depending on the results of the experiment), Headspace vs.
carbonation levels, analysis of how the common IBU formulas stack up vs.
actual IBU data, home ultrafiltration / microfiltration of mead, and
whatever else I -- or you -- can think and write up.

Ergo, if anyone wants to help, lemme know.  I'd particularly like a few
of you to run replications of the All grain v. partial mash and FWH
experiments, especially with differing styles of beer, so that we can
have more data on which to base our findings -- whatever they turn out
to be.  And always, if you have an experiment that you want to run and
write up, lemme know -- if it's good, I'll happily ask Deb to push some
of my stuff back to accommodate a guest column, or if it's really big
then it might even be a freestanding feature article.  And you even get
paid a few bucks if your stuff gets published!

Finally, a word on the latest round of BT bashing.  Regardless of the
veracity of the complaints regarding the Kolsch article,  I can tell you
that the editors of BT do read the HBD and are committed to producing a
high quality publication.  An example: I recently passed along to BT a
comment by Dr. Farnsworth that he had used a recent (1997) BT article in
his brewing technology course at UTSA as an exam question ("Find the
errors in this article").  Rather than get angry or insulted, Deb Jolda
(BT Managing Editor) did the right thing -- she quickly got in touch
with Dr. Farnsworth to get his thoughts on how to improve their
editorial process.  (One upshot of this is that Dr. Paul will be
reviewing some BT articles to help catch things that might creep in the
late in the editorial process.)  Certainly, nobody is perfect, but the
folks at BT *do* listen to your comments and take them *very*
seriously!  So rather than just complain about it, why not do
something?  If you're an expert in a particular area or field, write BT
and volunteer to peer review upcoming articles in your area of
expertise.

For myself, if you ever find *anything* amiss in any of my columns, I
urge you to write BT (or me).  Because I'm not a professional scientist,
I'm doing my best to make sure that the information in my columns has
been blessed by ordained ministers of the High Order of the Scientific
Method.  Indeed, my first two columns -- on lab stuff -- have each been
reviewed by no less than four experts (folks like George Fix, Paul
Farnsworth, Jim Liddil, George DePiro, and Katie Kunz).  Nevertheless,
when I screw up -- and I'm sure I will -- I'll be more than happy to
admit it.

Regards -- Louis K. Bonham



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Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 14:53:47 -0400
From: "Michael R. Tucker" <mtucker at frii.com>
Subject: Re: Tommyknocker (was Beer in Mail)


>Does anyone know the phone number for Beer across America? Also, I tried a
>brew from Colorado called TommyKnocker Nut Brown(I think). Has anybody heard
>of this, can it be bought outside of the state?

Tommyknockers is a brewpub/micro I believe in Idaho Springs.  you could get
their number by dialing 303-555-1212.  If Idaho Springs isn't in that area
code, then its in the 970 area code.

I thought their beers were OK- but they had a ways to go before they could
match New Belgium or Odells (also Colorado micros).

Of course, I had the Tommyknockers back when they first opened a couple of
years ago now.  :-)


- ---
Michael R. Tucker
http://www.frii.com/~mtucker
mtucker at frii.com


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Date: 06 Apr 1998 14:54:07 -0400
From: "David T. Peters" <dpeters3 at ford.com>
Subject: NO SUBJECT


to:post@hbd.org

Subject: Brewing Frig

I have been given the green light to purchase a keg refrigerator.  But, I am
in a quandary.
I want to be able to serve cold beer and do the occasional lagering in the
same refrigerator.  I would like to have at least 2 or 3 on tap and 1 or 2 in
lagering.
Am I asking too much?
What are the different things I should be considering when first determining
what kind of a frig or chest freezer is best and what do I need to
incorporate into the design?
Where should I look for the related FAQ's.
We are also planning to refinish the basement in the fall.  So, I have time to
incorporate this in the basement planning if I get something going.  I have the
bar area set aside, but must decide how much room is required for all the
necessary equipment.
Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

REGARDS,  DAVID T. PETERS         PROFS ID: DPETERS3
CW170 NA BODY CONSTRUCTION LEADER
VEHICLE OPERATIONS RM E-1004      MAIL LOCATION:  RM E-1750
E-MAIL: DPETERS3 at FORD.COM         PHONE: 248-6444  FAX: 592-239


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Date: 6 Apr 1998 14:56:21 -0400
From: EFOUCH at steelcase.com
Subject: FW Spicing?


HBD-

I don't suppose this technique would work for spices like coriander and
orange peel, eh?  Probably not a good idea in styles where you don't want a
lot of hop flavor and aroma?

Not that I probably still won't try it.  A Wit that's FWH and FW spiced?
Maybe the hops'll bind the other spices into the aroma.

It could happen!

Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
Kentwood MI.

P.S. Dave Burley- It's commendable how you handled Mr. Clark's supposition
with Kid Gloves.  Nice to see the HBD operating in civility.


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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:09:50 -0600 (CST)
From: Stephen Cavan <cavanst at duke.usask.ca>
Subject: Mash Hopping

This talk of First Wort Hopping and De Clerck's idea of steeping hops at
50C gave me the idea of adding the hops to the mash itself. The real
benefit here (if it works) is that the annoying pellets won't clog my
system when I rack from the hot break, and I won't have a ton of hops
holding back wort either.

Has anyone tried Mash Hopping? I did this yesterday and will report back
in a couple of weeks with the results.

Cheers, Steve



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Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:24:51 -0700
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com>
Subject: Koelsch article

in HBD #2679, elizabeth <eaweston at email.unc.edu> writes:
>Now, regarding the above mentioned BT article...is it my imagination, or
>was this Koelsch article the worst "Style" column to date?   There is
>literally no discussion of traditional Koelsch brewing techniques!  ...

How good you consider this article is, of course, your opinion.
I've noticed, however, that different authors have different goals with their
articles.  Some trace the history of a style.  Some describe the current
state of a style.  Some address how to brew a certain style.

If you're interested in the history and current practices of brewing in
Koeln, then I'd suggest writing to the editor or Martin Lodahl and asking
him for such a column.

I've written in recently to ask for a column reviewing stouts and their
substyles, so we'll see if they bite on that one.

  - Bryan

Bryan Gros	gros at bigfoot.com
Oakland, CA
Visit the new Draught Board homebrew website:
http://www.valhallabrewing.com/~thor/dboard/index.htm

Q. In your opinion, what is the single most common error
           that I am likely to make, as a taxpayer?

   A. In our opinion, that would be having "light" beer in your refrigerator.
                                          - Dave Barry


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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:38:15 -0700 
From: Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov>
Subject: cask ale from cornies

George asks about  developing real ale at home using a cornie can as a
faux-firken.
Indeed it can be done.  Here's my method.

Rack beer to corney either from finished primary or from secondary.
Prime with apprpriate level of glucose, which for me is half a cup.  Add
sack o' dry (whole) hops.  Let condition a week or thereabouts.  I
dispense using a gravity feed arrangement where the corney is inverted
and you dispense from the gas in fitting. Rig up two fitting
attachements -- one for gas in, the other for dspense. The breather line
connects to out fitting and the dispense connects to the in fitting.  I
use a small in-line plastic valve with barbed ends on both sided for the
breather tube.  It emulates a spyle adequately.  I use a short reach of
tubing with a cobra head for the product line.   I use an old plastic
pail with a convenient hole in the side near the bottom to invert the
keg in. I put this on top of my beer fridge, becuase I don't want to
have to bend over to get me pint!  I run the dispense line out the hole,
while mounting the valve-cum-spyle at the rim of the pail.  I bit foamy
at first, it settles down quite nicely then you have to breath the cask
to let er drain. I have not found it neccesary to  fine the beer, as the
gas in tube provides a standpipe from which you are pouring, and the
yeasts I use for these types of beers tend to flocc well. I close the
valve when not in use.  

Obviously, you want to consume the beer within a reasonable amount  of
time, given your own conditions and tastes.  I find that the beer really
gets good after 2 days open, and then starts a relatively quick dive.  I
find my three gallon corney well suited for a weekend with a little
helps from the wife and friends.  I go with the fiver when she's out of
town.

Cheers, and thanks to the reponses regarding my quest for real real ale
in London.
- --dave, sacramento


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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:53:08 +0000
From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com>
Subject: BT comments

>  It was either Schaefer of Schlitz...Rob, do you remember?

I would bet on Schlitz.

David Rinker writes about a recent Koelsch article in BT:

> From: elizabeth <eaweston at email.unc.edu>
> Subject: BT Koelsch Article

> Now, regarding the above mentioned BT article...is it my imagination, or
> was this Koelsch article the worst "Style" column to date?   There is
> literally no discussion of traditional Koelsch brewing techniques!

While "worst" is somewhat harsh and subjective, I do agree that the 
article missed the mark that I wanted to read about and thats some 
insider information on the German traditions and practices that 
make the real Koelsch what it is.  The problem is that this kind of 
inside information is hard to come by, and even harder if you are an 
American without contacts within the industry.

> One forms the opinion that while in Cologne, he never asked any
> questions.

Or more likely, no-one was offering answers!

> To compound this, it also looks as if no one took the time to edit his
> article. 

Im sure that there was considerable editorial participation in this 
as in  all BT articles.   At least in my experience there was always 
significant editing that took place, mostly beneficial but there are 
always differences between authors and editors, fact of life.

> (Ok, the decoction/RIMS stuff more than made up for it).

But I really wish they had rerun the decoction experiment with better 
yeast performance and blind analysis.  Still, a very decent effort 
and very interesting read and I look forward to more of Louis' work, 
this is not easy and is really a labor of love.

> What happened to Jim Busch?

Im still here!   Seriously, I had a very nice run with BT and enjoyed 
being able to write a bit about this great hobby/craft/profession.  
The BT folks, and Deb in particular, are fine decent people to work 
with who struggle with all the same pressures that the rest of us do 
(schedules, cost, deadlines,  growth, personnel turnover, redesigns, 
etc).  We all make mistakes, I sure had a few clunkers that made it 
in print under my column and I felt terrible every time I caught one 
(funny how you can read the thing 100 times but the first time its in 
final print that one Doh! jumps right out at you!).    BT has been 
decent enough to leave the door open to future articles, should I get 
past my current writers block (and deadline aversion) and find 
something that interests me enough to sit down and focus again.  In 
the meantime Ill fritter away my time doing rocket science and the 
occasional pilot brew for Victory Brewing.

Prost!

Jim Busch


"A Victory for your Tastes!"


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Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:17:57 -0400
From: Wade Hutchison <whutchis at bucknell.edu>
Subject: Grand Cru and Burner Info

>Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 05:50:46 EST
>From: Golgothus <Golgothus at aol.com>
>Subject: To Further Confuse the Grand Cru Debate...

Well, as I believe has been stated before, Grand Cru is a style 
modifier, borrowed from wine makers, where you have to go through
some application process to get the appellation.  FWIW, the 
Brassiere de Paris (sp?) has a "grand cru" ale, that is more
like a saisson or bier de garde, although no style is indicated on
the bottle.  Rodenbach is definitely a red ale, or Flander's red, and
the grand cru is just the aged, unblended form of the red.  If you like
either of these two beers, try the "Alexander" Rodenbach, which is
tart, and cherry, and somehow subtlety different than a lambic, but
still very similar.

>
>Hello again from the newbie who started the Great Grand Cru Debate...
>
>		I don't know any of this for sure but here goes. In the four books that I
>have: 1.) The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing, 2.) Dave Miller's Homebrewing
>Guide, 3.) Homebrew Favorites (a recipe collection) and 4.) Homebrewing for
>Dummies (Which I definitely needed :-) ), the information I can come up with
>at this time states that the Grand Cru "Style" of ale is a Belgian White... I
>have found no other reference to a Grand Cru being anything else (though the
>Rodenbach Grand Cru which Malty Dog (Bill Coleman) states "is an entirely
>different style, the Flanders Red, which is usually combined with Oud
Bruin in
>competition style" and I don't doubt him at all, 

- -----break-----

A few words on the Zymurgy burner article - I read the article with
interest the 
week after I got the magazine, and thought - 'Ok, where's the bottom line?' 
Which, of course there was not.  In doing this kind of comparison, I'd be 
interested in the efficiency of the burners, or how well they used the
propane 
to actually heat the water.  No where in the article was there any calculation
of efficiency, although all the data required was there.  So, I fired up
excel and ran the numbers through.

First of all, none of the burners ran at their rated BTU output, if you just 
look at the amount of propane used times the heating value for propane.  The 
best two were the Cache Cooker and the King 90 PK, which ran at just over
93%.  The absolute worst was the Fyrbrewer, which ran only at 52% of rated
capacity (rated for 170,000 BTU, the output was only about 89,000 BTU).  When
you take the next step, and see how efficiently the burners transferred this
heating output to the water being boiled, the Superb comes out on top with a
39.5% efficiency of gas burned to water heated.  the King 90, with the jet 
burner design, came out the worst at 13.7% efficiency.  The King 90 sure can
burn the gas, but it can't effectively transfer that heat to the water.  The 
fastest water heating rate was the King 84, which used 143,000 BTU/hr of gas
to heat the water at about 32,000 BTU/hr, for a 22% eff.

Bottom line: the 35,000 BTU burner (the Superb that Bill mentions below) 
may be the slowest to heat the water, but in terms of efficiently using 
propane gas, clearly comes out on top.  In my opinion, it did not deserve
the disparaging remarks that the testing team gave it.  I use this burner for
boiling, as does Bill, and am completely satisfied with it.
The second choice would be the Cache cooker, at 25% eff. or the King 11 Pk
at 29.%  
The Fyrbrewer is clearly lying to us about the capacity
of the burner - it's really a 90,000 BTU burner, and to boot was the 2nd worse
in terms of gas efficiency (after the Kink PK 90)  

If anybody wants further info on where and how I got these numbers, let me
know, and I'll post the analysis procedure.

>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 18:00:52 -0500
>From: Bill Giffin <billg at ctel.net>
>Subject: The Best in Burners
>
>Top of the morning to yea all,
>
>I read the article published in Zymurgy on burners with a bit of interest
>until the author of the article stated that the means of testing probably
>wasn't appropriate to come up with any conclusions other then gas
consumption.
>
>The conclusion stated in the article on the Superb PC-100  "A more
>practical use for the burner would be an outdoor alternative to your
>kitchen stovetop for a small-scale, extract brewing setup."  Is pure
>nonsense!  I have used the Superb 35,000 Btu burner for over 7 years and
>brewed in excess of 200 batches of all grain beer with this burner.  After
>I had used the Superb for 15 or so batches I got an 170,000 Btu burner and
>used that for a few batches then went back to the Superb as it was superb
>to the higher out put burner.
<snip>
>Is Zymurgy so desperate for articles that it will allow any bit of crap to
>be the cover story?  
>

I wouldn't say crap - but certainly an incomplete article.

>Bill

- -----break2------

Another error that I saw in this Zymurgy was in the Q/A in the beginning
where Amahl Turczyn, I believe, answers a question about partial pressure
of O2 and diffusion.  Partial pressure _does_ indeed depend on the overall
pressure.  Partial pressure of a component is defined as the mole fraction
of that component (fraction based on moles, not mass or volume) times the
overall pressure.  So 10 mole percent of O2 at 100 psi has a higher
partial pressure than 20 mole percent O2 at 1 psi total pressure.  I'm 
not sure that was clear from his answer.

Sorry to go on so long, I've been thinking about this for two weeks.
	-----wade

	whutchis at bucknell.edu
	Wade Hutchison, College Engineer
	Bucknell University, College of Engineering
	http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~whutchis


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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:20:15 -0400
From: "Philip J Wilcox"<pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: Big Thank You





From: Philip J Wilcox at CMS on 04/06/98 05:20 PM

Greetings All,

I'd like to take a little bandwidth to thank the HBD for all the help and
inspiration you have given me in completing my 2-tier system. I feel like a
proud papa! Special thanks to Marty Tippon, Jeff Kane and Dion Hollenbeck
for their incredible web pages on building their systems. Special thanks to
the  Ann Arbor Brewers Guild and members Carrick Legrismith and Dave&Mike
from PICO for providing valuable experience actually Using these wonderful
devices. Special thanks to my welders Jeff Gier and Andy Thulin.  And
finally to Pat Babcock for allowing to steal part of his ubiquitous
phrase....

~I love my new 2-tier system, except for that gonging noise it makes when
my wife hits it with the volkswagon!!!~

Tours and samples are always free at:
The Poison Frog Home Brewery
Phil Wilcox - Brewer.




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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:06:27 -0400
From: underdog63 at juno.com (Kelly S Underwood)
Subject: Cracking Specialty Grains

Greetings All!

	The last couple of stouts that we have brewed in our homebrew
club have had a rather pronounced smokey flavor to them.  Since it was
not our intention to create a Rauchbier we asked around to see if anyone
had any suggestions as to what may be causing this and ways to prevent
it.
	A local micro suggested that we not crush our dark specialty
grains (chocolate, black) they apparently do not.  Another was to add the
specialty grains in at mash out, not to include them in the full mash. 
Some of our members think that this seems reasonable, others are quite
skeptical.
	My question are:  Has anyone else experienced these smokey
stouts?  Does anyone have any experience with either of the suggestions
presented to us or a reason as to why they may be the way to go or not?

Thanks.

Kelly Underwood
Millstone Mashers
Gales Ferry, CT

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]



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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 98 18:42:32 CDT
From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Dry hopping in the keg

George DePiro asked about experiences dry hopping in Cornelius kegs.
I have done this a few different ways with various results.

The first, and most successful way, was to place a scrubber on the end of the
out dip tube with a hop bag tied over that.  Whole or plug hops are then dropped
into the keg.  After a couple of weeks I usually transfer the beer to another
keg with a transfer tube between out fittings.

I have also put plug hops in a hop bag and dropped that into the beer.
Once when I tried this the bag came open and the hops clogged everything.  I
then pulled the out dip tube and placed a scrubber covered by a hop bag over
the end as in the first method.  I then transferred to another keg.

The other keg I tried the hops in the bag approach a lot of hop particles
escaped the still closed bag even though I used plug hops.  It had been in
the beer several weeks.  I fished out the hop bag and did the same as in the
second case.  The beer then settled out clear.

I think I will try putting the hops in a hop bag (tied securely) and hang it
from a thread slipped under the lid.  After a couple of weeks I can grab the
thread, remove the lid and pull out the hop bag.  As I say, I haven't tried
this yet but if it doesn't work I can always recover as in 2 & 3.
One thing about the first method, it is a lot easier way to use whole hops
for dry hopping than in a carboy.  I don't think I will ever use whole hops
in a carboy again.  It is a real pain trying to stuff all that greenery
through the small carboy neck.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com


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Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 00:58:54 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: Jethro on .08/ Roadside Testing/Schreier Web Analyses

           The Jethro Gump Report

 .08....
    Heard a lot about it, and have lived in lands where .05 reigns...but
also heard on the radio lately that the House put it "on hold
indefinitely,"...so, it doesn't seem problematic  at  this point.....
    Have not found any other reference to this outcome anywhere else, and
upon speaking to the editor of a major brewmag about it...he stated that he
could only find one reference on the web in this regard, by a MADD style
group.....that stated that "the ETOH lobby has the government it paid
for...."
    Seems that the press doesn't follow up on their own leads......

    But the Wall Street Journal reported on 31.03.98 that the California
Division of Highways states that "nearly half of California's fatal highway
accidents are caused by sleepy drivers...."                     Test
sleepiness.......yeah , too right.....

Roadside Testing...
    Having endured many...and been given a break by a few officers ....(Ta
to NSW Police and Tallahassee PD) and having spent not a few years in the
Intensive Care Business....I will tell you that no matter how well you pass
the other roadside tests...the Nystagmus Test will nail you if you are
indeed "done"....
    The officer will ask that you follow an object's travel from  left to
right and then back, with the object, ( a Pencil, or finger) approx 6-12
inches from your nose... a normal response will have the suspect's eyes
smoothly tracking the back and forth arc of motion...whereas the impaired
suspect will display a  "jagged" eye track....instead of a smoothly flowing
eye path, the eyes will jump from one position to the next....
    No amount of practice will conceal this ....perhaps a new party trick to
try with your friends?

Schreier Malts Web Page...
    I regret to inform you...that I have been informed that the Schreier Web
Page will only carry Average Analyses.....not the full pages of actual
analyses.....
    Sad.....
    Understand that I am a firm believer in Schreier/DWC .....I
still just cannot believe that there are yet no maltsters on line with
their data easily accessible.....But Jethro predicts that this is only a
matter of time....soon, sooner than you think, ALL maltsters will have their
data out there....
    However, I am also assured that Schreier customers, no matter how small
a volume you buy will be able to acquire the full info on your malts... by
calling Schreier with your lot numbers........the trick for homebrewers
buying from a homebrew shop seems to be getting your lot
numbers.............
    Again......sad.....


Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
Court Avenue Brewing Company,
Des Moines, Iowa.
brewer at ames.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"












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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:50:01 EDT
From: SJarr93801 <SJarr93801 at aol.com>
Subject: 6th Annual Dominion Cup

The James River Homebrewers are proud to announce the Sixth Annual Dominion
Cup Homebrew Competition.  The competition will be held May 16 in conjunction
with the River City Beer Festival in Richmond, Virginia.  All homebrewers are
invited to enter, with entries being accepted now through May 9, 1998.

Entries will be judged in ten style categories with ribbons and merchandise
awarded to the Best of Category winners.  The Best of Show winner will also
receive an engraved Dominion Cup.

The Dominion Cup is sanctioned by the American Homebrewers Association and
BJCP.  We still have a couple of openings left for judges seeking points.

For an entry packet with complete rules, send email to
steve.jarrett at alliedsignal.com or this originating aol address.

                                                               Steve


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