---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Czech Pils Recipes Please ("Clifford A. Hicks")
  **** Fosters (Andy Walsh)
  koelsch (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  saccades (Jeremy Bergsman)
  re: Mead in Mississauga? (Jason Henning)
  re: overfill (Jason Henning)
  Old Peculier (Tony Barnsley)
  MO Malt/Protien Rest (Chas Peterson)
  Smoky stout / haze in wheat beers / clarification (George_De_Piro)
  mixing batches (Amy West)
  Smoky Stouts ("David R. Burley")
  Split Full Wort Boils (ouch!) (EFOUCH)
  Pollak index: what is it? (Rosalba e Massimo)
  Old Peculier / Grand Cru (Rosalba e Massimo)
  dark grains at mash-out (David Kerr)
  Crisp Mal spec's (Paul Edwards)
  Filling up in Philadelphia (Malty Dog)
  Old Peculier (Brad McMahon)
  Centrifugation and Sugar solutions ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
  Celis White Recipe (Eddie Kent)
  Roadside Testing ("Lee C. Carpenter")
  re: stove-top boiling ("Brian J. Paszkiet")
  Dry hopping in the keg (Jerry Cunningham)
  Two Kettle Boiling ("Rosenzweig,Steve")
  CO2 Overfills/Complaisance (AJ)
  122F rests (Al Korzonas)
  Chimay ("Dr. Dwight A Erickson")
  Splashing wort (Al Korzonas)
  GOTTs vs IGLOOS (EFOUCH)




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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 01:00:30 -0400
From: "Clifford A. Hicks" <simtech at ka.net>
Subject: Czech Pils Recipes Please

I have a pack of Wyeast 2278 Czech Pils and have been wondering what to do
with it (Maybe I'll brew some beer!) I have looked around a little and have
found it strange that there are not many recipes calling for this yeast.
(Perhaps I have not looked hard enough?) I turn now to the vast knowledge of
the HBD membership. Does anyone have any good (extract) pilsner recipes that
would make good use of this yeast? As always, your responses are greatly
appreciated.

Cheers,

Cliff Hicks
simtech at ka.net



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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 16:28:23 -0700
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Subject: **** Fosters

I hear that Fosters is being vigorously marketed in the USA as
"Australian for beer". Sorry, guys, that's wrong : you just can't
understand the accent. They are actually saying "Fosters is Australian
for blah". 

Another brewery here is marketing their new mid strength beer as being a
new kinder beer. Germans find this particularly amusing...

I had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Pivo on his recent trip to Australia.
To give credit where it is due, the mad brewer who forced his family to
wear wet clothes via home malting experiments (and who makes excellent
pilsners) is friend, self-confessed pin head, and HBD lurker Gil Drury
(expose yourself Gil!). We are eagerly awaiting the results of his
future forays into home malting...

Andy in Sydney.



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Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:36:48 +0200
From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
Subject: koelsch

David and/or elizabeth <eaweston at email.unc.edu   Fri, 3 Apr 1998
11:26:04 -0500 (EST)
wrote about the BT Koelsch Article <snip> "I want to know what the
Germans do".<snip>

I didn't read the article in BT because I subscribed today, but I found
in one of my books "Abriss der Bierbrauerei", by Prof. L.Narziss, 1980
some information about Koelsch.
I will try to translate the most important parts. 
Properties: 
OG 11.2-11.8 %         Final fermentation 79-85 %
Color 7.5-14 EBC       Bittering  16-35 BE
pH 4.15-4.4

Mashing in with Pilsenermalt (3 EBC) and some brewers use up yo 20 %
wheatmalt for raising palate and body.
Brewingwater: Cologne has water with hardness of 25 degr. D, of which
halve is bicarbonatehardness. Restalcalinity is 7 degr. D. Most of the
breweries (partly) remove the  temporary hardness.
Mashing: originaly Klsch was made by using infusionmethod. Most of 
the
breweries use the one stepinfusion. The temperatures depend on the
quality of the malt and the desired composition of the wort. As a rule
one strives for the same a-aminonitrogen content as for the light
colored beers (21-23 mg/100 ml 12 % wort).
The malt-water relation and consequently the concentration of the first
wort is dependent of the spargingsystem.
Boiling and hoprate: boilingtime is usually 60-100 minutes. The amount
of hops is nowadays lower than years ago.
The a-acid content of the hot wort is between 70 and 140 mg/L.
The first gift is usually added as extract at the beginning or after 15
minutes boiling.
The second gift is added 10-20 before end of boiling, as pellets or
whole (aroma)hops. Dryhopping is not used (anymore).
Worttreatment: after separation of the trub in the whirlpool or
centrifuge (a coolship is sometimes used) the wort is clarifyd by
(diatomaceous eath filtration or sedimentation).
First fermentation: a yeastslurry of 0.25-1.5 liter/100 liter
(6-40.000.000 cells /ml) is added. The higher the yeast-amount, the less
aeration is used. Fermentation temperature starts at 12-22 degr. C.
Sometimes up to 28 degr. C.
In small tanks sometimes within 12-24 hour new brews are added. In
larger tanks more brews are mixed together.
Main fermentation in open tanks lasts 3-4 days at 14-18 degr. C. Then
the young beer is cooled to 8-10 degr. C.
Yeast can be harvested and used again.
Closed fermentation is done at 18 degr. C at 0.6-0.7 Bar and is finished
in 3 days. The fermentation is carryd on for another day to remove
2-acetlactate. Next a portion of the yeast is removed (centifuge) and
the beer is cooled to approx. 0 degr. C
Lagering: often lagering is for 40-60 days at 4-5 degr. C

The name Klsch (Koelsch) may only used by breweries (approx. 26) in 
or
around the town Kln (Cologne). 
Most well-known breweries are: Kppers (Kueppers), Richmodis, Brger
(Buerger), Pffgen Paeffgen, Dom, Sion. (when ue or ae is used I meant 
u
or a with diaeresis).

Greetings from Holland,  Hans Aikema



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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 00:38:48 -0700
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at stanford.edu>
Subject: saccades

Jethro writes:
> I will tell you that no matter how well you pass
> the other roadside tests...the Nystagmus Test will nail you if you are
> indeed "done"....
>     The officer will ask that you follow an object's travel from  left to
> right and then back, with the object, ( a Pencil, or finger) approx 6-12
> inches from your nose... a normal response will have the suspect's eyes
> smoothly tracking the back and forth arc of motion...whereas the impaired
> suspect will display a  "jagged" eye track....instead of a smoothly flowing
> eye path, the eyes will jump from one position to the next....
>     No amount of practice will conceal this ....perhaps a new party trick to
> try with your friends?

Since the last time I posted the queue length was 0 I'll go slightly off topic
to mention an enhancement to this party trick.  Normal eye movements are
actually composed of one or more very rapid jerks called saccades.  Nystagmus
is a set of unusual saccades that occur in certain conditions, often
pathological.  Try having someone tilt his or her head back and put cold
water in one ear while watching the eyes for a party trick.  This is another
nystagmus.

The tracking test used by the fuzz is (as far as I know) the only type of
task where your eye moves smoothly.  You can control who appears sober
and who appears drunk with this test by the speed at which you ask the
subject to track.  I'll leave the possibilities up to you.
- -- 
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb


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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:17:35 GMT
From: huskers at olywa.net (Jason Henning)
Subject: re: Mead in Mississauga?

Hello-

Joe Guy <joeguy at idirect.com> writes:
 
+ Hi! I am looking for a place in Mississauga - or at least southern 
Ontario
+  - where I can brew mead. 
+ 
+ I have found a lot of beer and wine brew-your-owns - but not mead.
+ 
+ Any ideas, anyone?

How about your place? All you need is a carboy, 12 pounds (a gallon) of
honey, and a packet of champagne yeast. A big funnel is nice too.

I add the honey to the fermentor. Add three gallons of water using the
container the honey came in to rinse all the honey out. Hydrate the
champagne yeast per the instructions and pitch it. Let it rip. Rack once
the fermentation subsides and again as you feel necessary. Don't get in
any sort of a hurry, mead is a slow fermentor (like a couple months) but
worth minute of waiting.

And subscribe to Dick Dunn's excellent forum, Mead Lovers Digest:

+ Use mead-request@ talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests.  When
+     subscribing, please include name and email address in body of 
message.

Most folks like to boil (or at least raise to 160F range) the must.
Since mead is a sideshow at my house, I like to keep it simple and
haven't found boiling necessary. I generally can do a batch this way in
20 minutes including clean-up.

Cheers,
Jason Henning <huskers olywa net>
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
Lacey, Washington

Reality is an illusion that occurs due to the lack of alcohol. - W.C.
Fields

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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:17:27 GMT
From: huskers at olywa.net (Jason Henning)
Subject: re: overfill

Hello-

Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> writes:
 
+ I'm puzzled by C.D. Pritchards results with his CO2 tank
+ 
+ > When the cylinder was valved into the
+ >regulator, the cylinder-side gauge needle twirled to over
+ 2500 psig!!!  The
+ >regulator also got noticably cooler.  Disconnected
+ the regulator and bleed
+ >an alarming amount of CO2 *liquid*.
+ 
+ CO2 is in liquid form in the tank and, if so, the
+ pressure in the tank would be dependent only on the
+ tank temperature until all the liquid was exhausted. That is,
+ it is impossible to get a higher pressure in the tank of pure
+ CO2 whether the tank was half full or completely full.
+ The tank pressure gauge should read the same.  Also,
+ if the CO2 is sprayed through a restricted orifice into the
+ air one does not get liquid CO2 but Dry Ice snow as people
+ who  have operated a CO2 fire extinguisher know.
+ 
+ I think you should go back to the filler and have him replace
+ the cylinder, as I have no idea what you have in that tank.

Dave, you missed the point. The tank was completely filled with liquid
co2 at a much lower temperature. The lower temperature was most likely
due to moving liquid co2. The tank probably cooled 30 degrees or more
during filling. When the tank reach room temperature, the liquid co2
expanded. With no co2 vapor to be displace with liquid, exceedingly high
psi was the only possible outcome. This is precisely why there is a
pressure relief valve opposite the threads. BTW, I've heard that the
safety valve is set at 2500 psi, so CD was only a few psi away from
seeing his tank empty in 5 minutes. And that will cause the dog to stain
the rug!

On a similar note, those large LP tanks you see on farmsteads have a
temperature dependant chart on them to determine how full they can be
filled. The cooler the ambient temperature, the less they can be filled.

- ------

Thanks everyone who gave me great advice on souring my stout and
'insulting' water heater connections. HBD continues to the best forum on
the Net.

Cheers,
Jason Henning <huskers olywa net>
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
Lacey, Washington

Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself
a pleasure. - Ambrose Bierce


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Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:20:16 +0100
From: Tony Barnsley <Tony.Barnsley at riva-group.com>
Subject: Old Peculier

Hans Aikema Wrote

>In The Real Ale Drinkers Almanac (Roger Protz) it says: 
>OG 1058  ABV 5.6 %
>Ingredients: pale malt, crystal malt, maize and cane sugar. Fuggles and
>other hops, whole and pellets. 
>Tasting notes: massive winey bouquet of fat fruit. 
>Palate: toffee and roast malt in the mouth, deep bitter-sweet finish
with >delicate hop underpinning. 
>Comments: a famous dark, vinous, "pass the Stilton "(=cheese) old ale.

>What I would try is:
>aiming for OG 1058 with: 
>5 % crystal malt (dark)
>5 % maize flakes
>5 % brown cane sugar
>85 % pale ale malt

I would drop the maize and add 1-2% Black malt

>Cascade hops enough for some bitterness and balance with the sweetness

Not sure about the cascades, ideally aim for 24 IBU's with Fuggles which
S&N uses predominantly in OP

>rest at 53 deg.C for 15 minutes
>rest at 67 deg.C for 45 minutes
>rest at 73 deg.C until J2 neg

Pale ale malt - skip the protein rest. The beer is dark enough that any
haze will not be noticeable. Mash for 90 Minutes at 66C then mashout.

>I read in Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy (Dave Line 1985):

My copy is a good 6 years earlier than this (1979)

>"good example of an old fashioned ale"

<recipe Snipped>

And an excellent recipe apart from the vast quantity of sugar, I
normally replace the sugar with additional extract to get the gravity.
Its very close in character to OP. As you say don't use the Saccharin,
Homebrew yeasts of the time (circa 1979) were notoriously attenuative,
Modern ones are not (to the same extent) I've used Wyeast 1084 (house
yeast) with a good deal of success in that recipe. I would like to try a
Yorkshire style yeast at some time.

Randy Erikson is right about the "Good beer not great beer", but
suggests finishing hops, which are not really necessary. Certainly the
black treacle IS required.


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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:14:35 -0400
From: Chas Peterson <chasp at digex.net>
Subject: MO Malt/Protien Rest

HBDers -

Just wanted to pass along a data point on Maris Otter Malt.  I used this
malt as the base for an ESB this weekend; this variety was from Beeston.
It performed just fine, but as I've stated here before MO malt from this
maltster is incredibly easy to overcrush.  My first few attempts with it
resulted in stuck sparges and tremendous balling at dough in.  If I go easy
on the gap setting on my Valley Mill, I get great runnoff and normal
efficiency.

As for the protien rest debate (a favorite of mine!), I have switched to
the 135F rest over the past 18 batches or so.  I can definately say that
this switch has resulted in beers with greater body.  But they are also
take a bit longer to clear.  So I guess I'm supporting both points.  My
preference is to deal with a little cloudiness, enjoy a more satisfing
beer, and simply wait for the sucker to clear for presentation.

For foam retention, I have found that it is largely dependent on my water
supply more than anything else.  I had tried just about everything --
skipped protien rests, torrified wheat, wheat malt, cara-pils malt, etc to
cure my headless wonders.  But the best cure seems to be just substituing
about 1/3 to 1/2 of my water with distilled.  Course, this is particular to
my regional supplier, and YMMV.

Chas Peterson
Laytonsville, Md
- ------------------------------------


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Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:32:21 -0700
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com
Subject: Smoky stout / haze in wheat beers / clarification

     Hi all,
     
     I tried posting some of this on Saturday, but it didn't seem to get 
     through...hmmm.
     
     Kelly writes in to say that his stout is oddly smoky, and wonders if 
     he should not crush his specialty grains.
     
     There are two reasons that your beer may be smoky:  too much roasted 
     malt/grain or an infection, most likely with wild yeast.
     
     If the cause is the first reason, the answer is NOT to stop crushing 
     the grain.  Rather, use less of it; you'll save money!  I have found 
     that my stouts can take on a ham hock quality when the roasted grains 
     get up over ~12% of the grist.  This flavor,while not quite 
     unpleasant, is certainly a bizarre addition to a stout.
     -----------------------------------
     Somebody wrote in to Saturday's digest (sorry, I can't remember who) 
     saying that the haze in wheat beers is predominantly caused by the 
     nonflocculent yeast used.
     
     This is not really true.  It must be remembered that most commercial 
     wheat beers are filtered to remove the primary fermentation strain, 
     and then dosed with a highly flocculent lager yeast.  The haze is 
     indeed caused mostly by protein-tannin complexes.
     
     In fact, part of the reason homebrewed (or nonpasteurized) wheat beers 
     get clear and headless with age is because proteolytic enzymes from 
     the yeast degrade the proteins responsible for heading and haze.  Last 
     night I opened a 6-month old bottle of my own dark wheat and found it 
     to be clear and headless (it was once hazy and had good head 
     retention).  Microscopic examination revealed the presence of live 
     (and dead) yeast, but unless the bottle was swirled to suspend the 
     yeast, the beer was crystal clear.
     -----------------------------
     Thanks to all who have responded to my cask conditioning question.  
     There is a slight problem, though:  I wasn't clear in my first post!
     
     My confusion about this stems from a video I saw of an English brewer 
     dry-hopping and fining firkins (I think it was Bateman's).  Hop cones 
     were added to the firkin, sans bag, along with the Isinglass.
     
     How is it that the hops don't clog the plumbing at the pub or end up 
     in the patron's glass?  Is there something about firkin plumbing I 
     don't know (not unlikely)?  This has lead me to think that it may be 
     possible to dry hop in any keg without a hop bag, but I can't see how.
     
     Using a hop bag (as all have suggested) will work fine in a corny keg, 
     but how would you retrieve it from a firkin?
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)


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Date: Tue, 7 Apr 98 08:26:48 EDT
From: awest at george.m-w.com (Amy West)
Subject: mixing batches

I've made one batch of a beer that has a) not enough hops aroma
'cause I screwed up the hopping and b) a lower volume than I
expected.  It's now sitting in the secondary fermenter.  I'm
thinking of doing another batch following the same recipe
and then mixing the 2 after the second batch goes through
primary fermentation.

Has anyone else done this?

Is this an okay idea, a bad idea, or a really bad idea?

- ---Amy West


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Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:12:26 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Smoky Stouts

Brewsters:

Kelly Underwood says:

>My question are:  Has anyone else experienced these smokey
>stouts?

Smokey tastes comes from phenols generally.  Did you adjust
the pH to a too alkaline value in the mash which could solubilize
a lot of phenols? I recently sent some Sweet Irish stout and
a Scottish brown ale to another HBDer and he detected a
smokiness in the finish of both of them. The unusual condition
was that these were both brewed with a several generations old
Yeast Labs Whitbread yeast.  Any possibility that you did also? 



Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  

Voice e-mail OK 


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Date: 7 Apr 1998 09:13:11 -0400
From: EFOUCH at steelcase.com
Subject: Split Full Wort Boils (ouch!)


HBD-
Greg ponders 'bout boiling in two pots...

I routinely do split full wort boils on a gas range.  I have a 5 gallon
stainless and a 3 gallon ceramic on steel.  I plan to get a second 5 gallon
stainless and stay on the stove top for a few years more.
Problems:  Only the five gallon pot has drain manifold, so I either siphon
into the 5 gallon from the three gallon, or dump it (gently) in to get the
benefit from the drain manifold.  When I get the second stainless 5 gallon,
I'll install a drain manifold in it also (slotted copper- it even works
{slowly} with hop pellets on the current Palexperiment).
I split the hops additions between the pots.  Sometimes I put the bittering
hops all in one, and the aroma and flavor hops in the other.  I wonder what
kind of effect this has other than utilization?

Prost!  Wassail!  Shut up and have another beer like a man!

Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
Kentwood MI


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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 15:32:05
From: Rosalba e Massimo <rosamax at split.it>
Subject: Pollak index: what is it?

Hi!

Some friends of mine were about to buy some bulk liquid malt extract. They
noticed that there are some different types with a different *Pollak*
index. Does anyone know what this index means? Looks like it could be
related to diastatic power. Besides, are there any advantages in using
diastatic malt extract if I am not going to do partial mashes, but just
steep the specialty grains? And are there some disadvantages anyway?
TIA and cheers

Massimo - Genova - Italy
http://www.split.it/users/rosamax/
Italian & International Beer Page



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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 15:30:31
From: Rosalba e Massimo <rosamax at split.it>
Subject: Old Peculier / Grand Cru

Hi!

If you search last year or 1996 HBD archives, there where many posts
debating Old Peculier recipes; the starting point was Dave Line's, the
recipe was tuned and the last version was (I think) by Ken Schwartz; one of
the key ingredients was molasses.
Hope Kenny doesn't mind if I repost it:

5 lb 2-row British Pale Ale malt ( at 80% eff) or 3.5 lb pale DME
8 oz black patent malt (steep 30 min  at 155F if using DME else mash w/pale
malt)
8 oz chocolate malt (ditto)
1 lb demerara sugar (add to boil)
4 oz treacle (add late in boil to help preserve aroma)
1.5 oz Fuggles (4.5%) 60 min (no finishing hops)
Wyeast London
2 oz lactose (added to secondary during racking form primary)

65 deg F in glass primary 1 week, 65-70F in glass secondary till still &
clear.
Kegged & force-carbonated.

OG = 1.044
FG = 1.011

(dark malts are suggested to be reduced)

I brewed last year an extract version at a higher gravity (OP is about
1054-1057 if I remember, so I used up to 6 lb Liquid Extract) that turned
out well. Apart some variation on hops and yeast, I used roasted barley
(instead of chocolate) amd black malt; although I reduced the quantity to
about 7 oz. each, their flavour was a bit too much, so next time I would
use roasted+chocolate and reduce to 5-6 oz. 

#################

Grand Cru is not a style of beer, sometimes it designates the top beer of a
brewery, sometimes it is just a fancy name. 
Rodenbach Grand Cru is the aged unbleded Flemish Red
Hoegaarden GC is not a white (no wheat according to M.Jackson), although it
could have some similarities to the Hoegaarden Wit (spices, same yeast?)
I know also for example S.Denise GC which is a generic "Abbey Style" Ale,
and some others.

Ciao!
Massimo - Genova - Italy
http://www.split.it/users/rosamax/
Italian & International Beer Page



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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 09:35:59 -0400
From: David Kerr <dkerr at semc.org>
Subject: dark grains at mash-out

Just a couple of data points - I've not had the "smokey" effect as
described, but inadvertently (once) and deliberately (batch #2) added my
black patent and chocolate malts to my porter at mash-out with very good
results - a much mellower, rounder brew.
Dave Kerr - Needham, MA
"Be good and you will be lonely" - Mark Twain


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Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:46:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Edwards <pedwards at iquest.net>
Subject: Crisp Mal spec's

All,

Crisp malting has a web site (http://www.crispmalt.com) where they list
"typical" analyses for their products.

Has anyone been able to get specific lot analyses from Crisp or any of
their distributors?

- --Paul
  pedwards at iquest.net




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Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:15:33 EDT
From: Malty Dog <MaltyDog at aol.com>
Subject: Filling up in Philadelphia

I and a friend of mine will be visiting Philadelphia from New York City to
attend Split the Skull III at Sugar Mom's. I've been to the beer bars
in Philly a few times in the last couple of years, and in addition to
Sugar Mom's we plan to attend:

Copa II
Monk's
Curve de Notre Dame
Brigid's
Dickens Inn
Dock Street
(Possibly) Sam Adams Brewery.

Are there are other places anyone from the area can 
recommend? I've heard of some place called 
"the 700 Club" but the address I wrote down is incorrect.

Any additional places (including addresses) in the immediate
Philadelphia area-we will be travelling by foot and/or bus-I 
didn't think of would be welcome.

Thanks!

Bill Coleman
MaltyDog at aol.com


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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 23:57:35 +1100
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Old Peculier

People here seem to be quoting Dave Line's
recipe a lot. My experience is that it is not
that close to Old Peculier. It is a nice old ale
but not that similar to the original brew. Line
is fairly out of date, but is a good source for
ales that are no longer produced.


Get the best recipe from Wheeler & Protz's
Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home. This book is my bible
for British Ales. Hi Graham!

This is close to Graham's recipe, but buy the book
for the best of over 100 others...


For 23 litres (5 Imp. Gallons/6 US Gallons)

2kg Light Liquid Malt
1kg Light Spray Malt
500g Golden Syrup (or other invert sugar)
500g Dried Corn Syrup
620g Crystal Malt
120g Black Malt
30g Challenger, 35g Fuggles (boil)
25g Fuggles (Finishing)
1/2 cup Treacle for priming.

The treacle is absolutely essential to get the right taste.

Cheers


- --
Brad McMahon        Adelaide, South Australia         
brad at sa.apana.org.au   
PGP



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Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:30:55 -0500
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton at iastate.edu>
Subject: Centrifugation and Sugar solutions

Ahhh, something I truly know about...

There is a practical use for gradient sugar solutions, other than for
producing a black and tan!! In my former life as a biologist, the use of
sugar gradients was a valuable tool for separating plant cell fractions.
The centrifugation vessel is loaded with a linearly descending sugar
solution from (say) 60% down to 10%. That is, the 60% solution is on the
bottom and the 10% solution is on the top. Loading the vessel with ruptured
plant cells and centrifuging produces bands of specific plant parts at
specific densities. There are tables to explain which fraction is held at
which density/gravity/layer.

Thus very small, but very dense plant pieces (organelles) could be
separated from very small, yet less dense pieces (organelles). The process
is speeded up tremendously by centrifugation. The sugar gradient is
undistrubed (obviously or the process would not work).

What does this have to do with beer?  Beer will most probably not "settle
out" (i.e. higher sugar concentration at the bottom) due to gravity alone,
simply because there was no initial physical action producing a gradient in
your keg. (Or did the initial poster use a gradient maker to fill the keg
in question?) Turbulent flow assures that sugar solutions will equilibrate,
even over a very short time interval (warming or cooling the filled vessel
will also rapidly destroy a gradient). The process of maintaining a
gradient works better in very small vessels like the centrifuge vessels
mentioned above, and would appear to me to be nigh on impossible to
maintain in a large vessel (beer bottle or larger). Let's not even consider
the processes involved with introducing a gas into the gradiated liquid...

One more reason to pay attention in that Botany 101 class...

Jeff

- -------------------
Jeff Kenton		brewer at iastate.edu
Ames, Iowa		jkenton at iastate.edu	(515) 294 9997




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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 09:32:50 -0500
From: Eddie Kent <ebk1 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Celis White Recipe

This past weekend , I toured the Celis Brewery in Austin.  The tour was
not very informative, but the sampling after the tour (half an hour of
all you wanted- if you take advantage of this bring along a designated
driver like we did) made it worth the time.  It was funny how the tour
guide who didn't really understand the process of making beer ignored
the 6 pallets of cane sugar behind him when pointing out the pale 2 row
malt and Texas Winter Wheat in the grain room.  When I asked him about
it, he quietly told me they use it to raise the alcohol level in their
Grand Cru (which he described as a special event beer or the best
produced  of a given winery or brewery -  not a style). This was right
next to the food grade garbage cans full of ground orange peel and
coriander.

I was wondering if anyone in the collective has had any luck replicating
the Celis White.  The only recipe that I could find was from St. Pat's
in Austin:

6 lbs. Pilsner
3 lbs. Flaked Wheat
1.5 oz. Hallertau
1 oz. Tettnang
White Yeast (Wyeast 3944)
1 t. ground coriander
1 oz. ground orange peel

I know from the tour at Celis, that they only use Willamette and Saaz
hops and say the yeast is a proprietary strain.  Anyone had any luck
culturing this yeast from Celis White since its unfiltered.  I am also
curious as to when to add the spices to the boil (last 5-10 min)? Anyone
that has a recipe that's worked for them, I'd appreciate ! (By private
e-mail or post)

Also anyone wanting to tour the Celis Brewery, the tours are Monday
through Saturday at 2pm and 4pm - no affiliation I just like their beer.




- --
Eddie Kent
Houston, TX
ebk1 at earthlink.net

As for drinks, we shall have to make some beer.
                   -Father LeJeune, 1634-




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Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:45:48 -0400
From: "Lee C. Carpenter" <lee at brew-master.com>
Subject: Roadside Testing

Rob Moline wrote:

 ...the Nystagmus Test will nail you if you are
indeed "done"....
    The officer will ask that you follow an object's travel from  left to
right and then back, with the object, ( a Pencil, or finger) approx 6-12
inches from your nose... a normal response will have the suspect's eyes
smoothly tracking the back and forth arc of motion...whereas the impaired
suspect will display a  "jagged" eye track....instead of a smoothly flowing
eye path, the eyes will jump from one position to the next....
    No amount of practice will conceal this ....perhaps a new party trick to
try with your friends?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Following up on my sobriety testing post I will say that I did not mention
the Nystagmus test for two reasons. First, as Rob correctly sites, it is
infallible. Secondly, it is not widespread as of yet. If you run up against
an Officer using this tactic, when he asks you if you have any physical
problems which would impair you during the sobriety tests (which he should
ask), tell him, "yes sir, I have jumpy eye syndrome".:)


I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast.
 A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank
 her. What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch?
        --W.C. Fields






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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 11:23:39 -0500
From: "Brian J. Paszkiet" <bpaszkie at ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: re: stove-top boiling

Greg Young indicated that he has problems with doing full wort boils on his
stove top.  For some time now, I have been using a large (8.25 gallon)
enamel-on-steel canning pot for my brews.  This pot is very large in
diameter such that when placed on the stove, it covers two of the four
burners on the electric stove that I use.  With the two burners set on
High, I can achieve a rolling boil of 6.5 gallons of wort in about 30-40
minutes.
Hope this helps,

Brian Paszkiet
Boneyard Union of Zymurgical Zealots (BUZZ)
Champaign, IL



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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 13:40:46 -0400
From: Jerry Cunningham <gcunning at census.gov>
Subject: Dry hopping in the keg

I put whole hops in (sanitized) old pantyhose, and tie it to the dip
tube. How far down depends upon your drinking rate & how long you want
to dry-hop. No particles. No problem.

Burp,

Jerry
Annapolis, MD




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Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:05:14 PDT
From: "Rosenzweig,Steve" <Steve_Rosenzweig at wb.xerox.com>
Subject: Two Kettle Boiling

Greg Young in HBD2681 asks about splitting the boil:

Until I moved outside with a 10 gallon pot and two burner propane 
 setup, I used to regularly split the boil between two 5 gallon SS pots 
 on the stove inside.

At first I put a lot of effort into roughly making the OGs of the two 
 pots the same by mixing from one to the other several times with a 
 quart pyrex so that splitting the hops evenly would yield similar 
 utilizations - then I realized that I really didn't know why the heck 
 I was doing that!  Theory is good, but practicality comes into play in 
 my brewery!

The good thing about that was that it really got me to think about how 
 OG calculations work; split pots, pre-boil, post-boil, mash 
 efficiencies, all that good stuff. Ray Daniels book was a great help 
 too.   Now I don't monitor the process nearly as much, but I have a 
 fairly good sense as to what is going on at each stage.

Being inherently lazy, and under the guise of reducing HSA (which never 
 seemed to be a problem anyway), I stopped mixing between the pots 
 preboil and let the OGs fall where the may.  Then I split the hops 
 roughly between the pots - say the first 3.5 gallons were at 1.050 and 
 the last 3 .5 were at 1.030, I might toss in 2/3 of the hops to the 
 first pot and 1/3 to the second.  Heck, I only use a cheesy $1.99 
 scale to measure out the hosp anyways - I'd be more accurate to count 
 the darn pellets!

The only pain was that it took 1.5x the time to do the chilling - with 
 only one immersion chiller, but at least the pots were of a size that 
 I could then dump the wort through a funnel into my carboy.  I tried 
 that with my first batch in my 10 gallon pot and nearly busted a gut!  
 Now it takes forever to drain from the big pot into a couple of 
 carboys through the EZ masher spigot (seriously thinking of putiing in 
 a 1/2" ball valve!)

So the moral of the story is that yes, a two pot boil is fine - 
 whatever works for you and your system is certainly good enough until 
 the upgrade bug bites you!

Stephen in Ontario NY



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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 13:33:19 -0500
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: CO2 Overfills/Complaisance

It is entirely possible to overfill CO2 cylinders - I've done it myself.
The usual method of acheiving this is to take all the steps you go
through to get a complete fill and perform them on a partially full
cylinder. The only way to be really sure is to weigh the cylinder before
and after filling making sure it is at its tare weight before starting.
Equally good, but wasteful of gas, is to empty the bottle completely
before taking it to be filled. One of the neatest tips I've gleaned from
HBD over the years is to put a partially full cylinder in the freezer
for a while and then remove it. The walls will warm faster than the
liquid and you can estimate the liquid level by looking at the
condensation on the outside of the cylinder walls.

RE: Dave Burley's comments on this subject. The unduly high pressure is
realized because a complete fill is most easily realized by cooling the
bottle to be filled which causes the liquid filled into it to occupy a
small volume. CO2 liquid expands quite a bit as it warms. A complete
fill allows some headspace for the liquid to expand. I don't know what
the exact number is but it makes sense that a 5# bottle ought to be able
to hold 5# at the critical temperature where the volume is the greatest.
5# of CO2 occupies .1525 cu ft at that temperature so let's say they
allow 10% margin and make 5# bottles with a volume of  0.1677 cu ft. Now
let us suppose that we fill this bottle with 7.5# of CO2 at 39F. This
much CO2 has a volume of only 0.134 cu ft so it would easily fit into a
0.1667 cu ft bottle. Now let the bottle warm. As it does so the liquid
expands and in so doing compresses the gas in the head space. When this
liquid is compressed enough it condenses into gas.  At about 76F the
liquid will have expanded to fill all the headspace and the bottle will
contain no gas. If the liquid is warmed further it cannot expand and the
internal pressure within the liquid skyrockets as the liquid is
virtually incompressible. At this point the safety disc blows. As I
recall they are set for 2500 - 3000 psi. This is a spectacular and loud
event but nothing gets damaged unless the gauges get bunged when the
bottle falls over.

C.D. mentioned that the bottles we use have a dip tube. Cracking the
valve to let liquid escape to the point where gas starts to be emitted
is obviously a good way of making sure that the bottle is not overfilled
but one needs to do this several times as the bottle warms because as it
does the volume will increase and cover the end of the dip tube again.
Note that the liquid does not exit as liquid but as dry ice "snow". It's
much better to weigh the bottle. Do this when it's empty and write the
tare weight on the bottle. It's then a simple matter to determine how
much the bottle weighs after the fill but if the filling station over
does it and the disc blows in the back seat of your car while you are
taking it home to weigh you are going to have your heart in your throat.
The filling station should be checking on this for you but as C.D. noted
that's not always the case.

It is more likely that you will get less than 5 pounds rather than more.
Most places take the bottle as you give it to them, hook it to a siphon
bottle through a cryo transfer tube, open the valves and let the liquid
flow. As I mentioned earlier, to get a complete fill you need to cool
the target cylinder, admit liquid, close the valves, let the transferred
liquid cool and then open the valves again. A bar supply, homebrew
supplier or bar will not usually go to this trouble. After all, the less
they transfer per fill, the less they pay for gas and the more often you
come back.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*

Several people have suggested that since the 0.08 thing isn't being
debated we can all heave a sigh of relief. Take a page from the gun
peoples' book. Remember that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
We have lost so many liberties without even knowing it was being done to
us  because while were busy  with our jobs, families, and hobbies (and
you know which hobby I mean) the special interest nuts were working full
time to make sure that we are compelled to live  proper (as they define
it) lives.



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Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:33:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: 122F rests

Dave writes:
>This is exactly why I hold at 122F to reduce the beta glucans
>and VLMW proteins to produce clarity.  I hold about
>15 minutes at 122F heat up at 1 degree per minute
>and go to 135F where I hold for 30 minutes before mashing
>in boiling water and heating to the desired saccharification.I
>do this for Pilsners and occasionally for pale ale malts
>depending on the grist.  I never have any heading problems
>and my beers are always clear despite low temperature
>protein rest nay-sayers' comments.

I'm afraid I must comment on this again.  I've even had a few
despirate emails from confused HBD readers on this post from
Dave.  This is completely contrary from what I've experienced
in my personal brewing AND to what Dr. George Fix has written
in his first book Principles of Brewing Science.  I believe
that there is even contrary data in Malting and Brewing Science.
The clarity I agree with, but unless you are malting (and
undermodifying) your own barley or adding unmalted barley or
wheat to all your recipes, I seriously doubt that your
head retention is up to par with this kind of mash schedule.
An all Pale Ale malt beer mashed like this will be thin and
headless.

Beta-glucan rests can be done at much lower temperatures if
truly needed.  It is also important to note that beta glucanase
is very heat labile (easily denatured) and therefore you must
use malt that was kilned very cool for a beta glucanase rest
to be of any use.  I believe someone posted in the HBD that
Pale Ale malts do not have enough beta glucanase left in them.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com

My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running):
     http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/


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Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:25:08 -0700
From: "Dr. Dwight A Erickson" <colvillechiro at plix.com>
Subject: Chimay

Greetings great brewers !
I'm looking for a Chimay recipe. I have a couple "kinda" recipes, and
am particularly
interested in what yeast to use.
Help will be greatly appreciated (now and at drinking time).



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Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:29:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Splashing wort

Ken writes:
>Richard Johnson asked about HSA from hastily dumping water into the broth from
>a specialty-grain steep.  I would think there is some risk of HSA at this
>stage, though perhaps somewhat less due to the smaller volume of wort in
>question.  A simple solution is to pour the water onto a ladle or the back of
>a spoon which is held just above the wort.  This way the heavy flow is broken
>up before it can excessively agitate the wort.

I wrote Richard privately and said that I suspect that the space over the
gallon of 170F water was probably mostly water vapour.  That is why I
feel splashing was not a big problem.  As for using a spoon or ladle to
break up the flow, I believe that would be worse, actually.  The splashing
of the pouring water would cause it to have *more* surface area and therefore
pick up more oxygen (if there was oxygen there to be dissolved).  I feel
that pouring at such a rate that causes a smooth (laminar) flow would
cause the least amount of oxygen to be dissolved into the water (and then
subsequently the wort).

Then again, have you considered that tapwater has a lot of dissolved oxygen
in it?  My water report lists DO as 8ppm.  So, by adding cool water to
the steeped grain solution, you are adding oxygen whether you splash or
not!

A better way, I feel (although NO book currently says to do it this way),
is to bring your total boil water to 170F, gently remove a gallon for
steeping the specialty grains and then gently transfer the liquid from
the steeped grains back into the main kettle.  This way, you are not adding
dissolved oxygen to your steeped grain solution.  In fact, this way you
can continue to heat the main water up to boiling and even begin adding
your extract (after turning off the heat to minimize scorching, of course)
*while* your specialty grains are steeping.

Alternately, you can steep the grains in the kettle and then later (after
removing the grains) add *boiling* water from another kettle.  Heating
the water reduces the amount of oxygen that will dissolve in the water
and therefore boiling removes essentally all dissolved oxygen.

Why not use all 2 or 3 or 5 gallons for steeping the grains?  Because
the pH of the steeping water will be much much too high if you try using
more than about a gallon of steeping water per pound of crystal malt
(dark malts can handle more water per pound and still be at a reasonable
pH).  What's wrong with a high pH (just for completeness)?  A high pH
will extract far more polyphenols (tannins) than a low pH.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com

My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running):
     http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/


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Date: 7 Apr 1998 15:56:31 -0400
From: EFOUCH at steelcase.com
Subject: GOTTs vs IGLOOS


HBD-

Due to a recent windfall (I sold my '77 Ramcharger), I have $200 burning a
hole in my pocket.  Since I less recently lost out on the oppurtunity to
purchase a 10 gallon Gott (with HDPE stamped prominently on the side) for $33,
the only othe 10 gallon coolers I can find are the yellow Igloos.  They are
not stamped with the material type, and the brochure inside said "Not for use
with hot or steaming fluids" (and says nothing about simple solutions).
Correspondance with the Igloo help line has left me want for information.

Does anybody else use the yellow coolers?  Does anybody have a mail order
source for the yellow Igloos or the orange Gotts?  I found the yellow ones at
Gordon Food Service for $40.  If I can avoid paying the $7 stoopid tax, more
beer money for me!

TIA, FWIW.

Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
Kentwood, MI


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