---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  RE: Reusing Yeast from big beers ("Timothy Green")
  Re Snapple Bottles---How about Mayonnaise Jars ("Peter J. Calinski")
  doughing in ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Culturing over a flame. Advice wanted (Jon Bovard)
  Cloying Crystal (Nathan Kanous)
  3/16 I.D. beer line (Michael Rose)
  Enamel Fix ("Scott Church")
  Indoor propane use (fridge)
  Crystal Malts and unfermentables (Fred Johnson)
  Sulfate/Carbonate (AJ)
  Hop combos (michael w bardallis)
  re:Hop Combination (Kevin TenBrink)
  Re: Classic American Pilsner update / Keg Conversion (Scott Abene)
  Re: Teflon burning ("Gregory A. Lorton")
  Amazing Regenerating Hop Rhizomes (Rick Theiner)
  Brew Cams (Scott Abene)
  Plate Chillers (Scott Abene)
  Free To Good Home! (Scott Abene)
  Firkins??? (Scott Abene)
  Re: Water / Al / Abstinence / Gap / FGs (Kyle Druey)
  Re: Mechanical agitation ("John W. Rhymes")
  BW yeast too pooped? (rsda)
  Snapple Bottles (Nathan Kanous)
  co2 oops (michael w bardallis)
  re: skunk smell (Peter.Ward)
  Quarterly Blue Moon Wit Discussion (Kyle Druey)
  fermentation temp. (Tom Barnet)


Have you entered a MCAB qualifier yet?


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Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 14:33:48 -0400
From: "Timothy Green" <TimGreen at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: RE: Reusing Yeast from big beers

There is something here I don't understand fully, I have made several
batches of mead that have had an O.G. of well over 1.068. When I made my
next batch, I used the entire yeast cake from the prior batch, hit the must
hard with O2, and stood back when the frementation took off!

Having done this I was quite surprised by Al K's comments:

Al Writes:

I agree 100% that one should not re-use yeast that has made a strong
beer (1.068 OG is a good rule of thumb, but I don't reuse yeast from
             1.060+ OG batches).

If there is a problem with reusing the yeast, please explain to me what it
is. (I am fairly well versed in chemistry, so if it is needed for the
explanation, fire away).

My consern is that I have a large ale (O.G. 1.081) just about finished, and
I had planned to use the yeast cake to make another.

Any help and explaination would be appreciated.

Tim Green

Mead is great...
Beer is good...
(But beer is much faster)




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Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 14:03:58 -0400
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Re Snapple Bottles---How about Mayonnaise Jars

On Thu, 2 Jul 1998 07:59:50 EDT  Tom Puskar wrote (in part)

>Rather than lug all those [snapple bottles]bottles to the recycling place
I was wondering if I
>could use them for my brew.  

[snip]

>All comments would be welcome.

You asked for all comments.  A few weeks ago I was forced to bottle a part
of my batch in Mayonnaise Jars.  Actually they were 1 pint Tabasco Chili
Sauce Jars.  I had delayed bottling until I had enough bottles for a full
batch.  Unfortunately I forgot that the batch was 5 Imperial Gallons not US
gallons.  As I got near the end, I realized I didn't have enough bottles. 
In a panic, I looked around and spotted a few canning jars on the shelf
nearby.  The only thing with lids were the Tabasco chili jars.  I figured
what the heck.  I just put the remainder of the batch in the jars.  It took
three jars.  I didn't even bother to sanitize them since it was late and I
wanted to finish.  I just used the lids that came with the jars.  There was
a noticeable odor of chili in the lids but it was either use them or toss
the last of the batch.  I closed the lids tight and put the jars in a pot
with a rag over the top in case they cracked.  

After two weeks, no problem.  The lids are noticeably convex.  I can't
taste any difference between the "jarred" beer and the bottled beer.  Not
even any chili smell.  I should point out that it was a very strong bitter
beer so that could hide the chili odor. Also, I like my beer lightly
carbonated so I used only 1/2 cup of CS.  Since the batch was closer to 6
gallons, it is very lightly carbonated.  

All in all, I would say it worked, but I will sure try to avoid this in the
future. YMMV.

A while back a poster was collecting silly/dumb things brewers had done. 
Maybe this should be put on the list.

Pete Calinski    


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Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 19:32:47 +0000
From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: doughing in

Someone (sorry I didn't note your name before replying) in today's 
digest noted that the traditional dough-in method is to add water to 
malt, and wonders if adding malt to water might excessively denature 
enzymes.

I mash in a converted cooler mash/lauter tun, and I've always added 
the water first, to establish a foundation bed and keep the false 
bottom or EasyMasher from clogging.  I would guess that everyone else 
out there who uses a single mash/lauter tun (whether cooler or RIMS) 
does likewise.  

Tidmarsh Major
tidmarsh at mindspring.com
Birmingham, Alabama
Tidmarsh Major, Birmingham, Alabama
tidmarsh at mindspring.com
"Bot we must drynk as we brew,
   And that is bot reson."
    -The Wakefield Master, Second Shepherds' Play


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Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:19:21 +1000
From: Jon Bovard <jonbovard at geocities.com>
Subject: Culturing over a flame. Advice wanted

Greetings to the collective.


I met a guy who is a research scientist and avid brewer. These two
always mix well dont they!!

He brews often but hasnt bought a pack of Wyeast in over a year, he just
cultures his own yeast from culture slants. One thing that has always
caused me probs.

One bit of advice he gave for home culturing is to culture over a flame
curtain or close to a heat source. He says that the presence of a flame
or heat curtain is asceptic. I figure that if I culture over my 4 ring
gas burner this could be judged as asceptic??
Any advice, elaboration or criticism of this theory by anyone
microbiologically bent... mucho appreciato!!!

Cheers
Jon in Brisbane
Australia
Home of the remaining DUFF beer cans.


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Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 22:41:48 -0400
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Cloying Crystal

As a bit of a tangent on Jeff Renner's thread of crystal malts, I read
somewhere (don't remember) that aged crystal malts can lend a cloying
sweentess to beer.  I've got a couple of brews that both have what seems to
be a sugar sweetness to them.  One is a high gravity brew, so anything
goes.  The other is an average (O.G. 1.049) APA which has a lingering
sweetness.

Now, I do believe that large amounts of certain types of hops (notably
EKG's) can lend this type of flavor, but I haven't used any in either brew.

Is it possible that "old" crystal malts can cause a beer to have a
lingering sweetness?

nathan in madison, wi
P.S. for some reason I think I read it in one of Fix's writings...please
forgive me George, if my mind fails me


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Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 22:54:26 -0700
From: Michael Rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net>
Subject: 3/16 I.D. beer line

someone wrote;
> More inportant than the length, would be the inner diameter of the
> lines.  Ideally you would want 3/16 ID about 5 foot long.
> This will allow you to keep the beer carbonated and use about 10 PSIG 

NOTE that the tubing has to be *beer line* or something made of the same
material. Other lines(food grade or not) have differing amounts of
friction and will not work properly.

michael rose  Riverside, CA   mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net


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Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 02:38:47 -0700
From: "Scott Church" <schurch at gte.net>
Subject: Enamel Fix

Does anyone know what can be used to fix chips in enamel pots?
I'm sure that many of you "fellow brewers" have encountered the need for
this yourselves.



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Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 06:52:48 -0400
From: fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu
Subject: Indoor propane use

Greetings folks,

 Fred Johnson saw propane-powered floor equipment being used 
inside a mega-discount store, and questions the safety of doing do.

 Having worked extensively in industrial environments, and as a 
refrigeration tech for a mega-discount store chain, maybe I can 
shed some light on the subject. The use of propane-powered 
forklifts, sweepers, floor polishers, etc is quite common in large 
buildings.

 One key is - large. The total air volume in these buildings is 
tremendously greater than in a home or basement. Combustion by-
products from the floor equipment make up a relatively small 
percentage of the total air volume in the enclosed space.

 The other, and perhaps more important key, is ventilation. Your 
local mega-discount store will circulate several tens of thousands of 
cubic feet of air per minute throughout the building, with a minimum 
fresh air intake of about 20%.

 The above factors keep the overall concentration low. Most homes 
don't bring in *any* fresh air. Combustion by-products will very 
quickly accumulate to dangerous levels in a home or basement. 
Please ventilate well and use a good CO detector at home. 
Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo
fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu


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Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 16:44:17 -0400
From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Crystal Malts and unfermentables

I've been reading the thread on the unfermentables in crystal malts and
wish to remind us that Cara-Pils is considered one of the crystal malts.
What is done to make it contain a high proportion of nonfermentables and
what prevents the enzymes in the mash from converting the dextrins in this
malt to fermentable carbohydrates?   Or have I been using Cara-Pils
incorrectly by simply including it for the full mash?
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina





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Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 08:41:50 -0400
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Sulfate/Carbonate

David Humes wants confirmation that 18 grams of gypsum are required to
increase calcium content of 6.5 gal of water by 170 ppm and sulfate by
about 400 ppm. That's what I get when I do the sums except that the
sulfate goes up by 416 ppm.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Peter Calinski asked if it is possible to determine bicarbonate from his
water report which does not list it. Yes, the bicarbonate can be
determined from the alkalinity. Divide the alkalnity by 50 and multiply
by 61. Thus the reported alkalinity of 80 ppm implies bicarbonate of 100
mg/L. The pH of 7.9 also says that there are small amounts of carbonate
(0.0037*80 = .3 ppm as CaCO3 or .42 mg/L) and carbonic (.028*50 = 1.42
ppm as CaCO3 or 1.2 mg/L) in the water. Thus pH and alkalinity give the
whole carbonic,bicarbonate,carbonate picture  under normal circumstances
with these being the situation in which nothing other than carbo species
contributing appreciably to the measured alkalinity.





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Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:34:43 -0400
From: dbgrowler at juno.com (michael w bardallis)
Subject: Hop combos

Larry asks:

"In order to try a thread of a different type, I thought I'd ask for 
peoples' various tried and true hop combinations."

Larry,

One of the most interesting combinations I've used in recent years is in
my Polar Beer, brewed every year for a polar bear swim event in Tawas Bay
in lake Huron. It's a Duvel knockoff (sorta), using domestic ingredients,
approx OG1.070, 40 BU. Each of three hop additions, 60/20/2 min., is
divided 50/50 between Cascade and Northern Brewer. I don't remember the
logic behind the original selection of these varieties, but the effect is
pretty cool. The beer is only very subtly citrusy, much less than you'd
expect from 1 oz. of late addition Cascade, and a hint of candylike
sweetness similar to that contibuted by Centennial. Blind tasters
identify Cascade, but are surprised at the amount, and never peg the N.B.
at all.

Mike Bardallis
Chillin' in Michigan

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Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 12:50:19 -0600
From: Kevin TenBrink <tenbrink at jps.net>
Subject: re:Hop Combination

Ahhh-- finally a topic of which I have some knowledge!
My favorite hop combinations so far are:
- --2 oz 14.8% Nugget boil
- --2 oz 6.5% Cascade flavor
- --1 oz 10.7% Centennial Flavor
- --1 oz each Centennial and Cascade dry hop
- --wyeast 1056

another good hop is columbus
try:
- --1.5 oz 16.9% Columbus boil
- --1.5 oz 16.9% Columbus flavor
- --1.0 oz 16.9% Columbus aroma (5 mins)
- --1.0 oz 16.9% Columbus dry hop
- --wyeast 1056

or you can try a yummy combo for lagers with:
- --3 oz 4.9% Crystal boil
- --2 oz 4.9% Crystal flavor
- --1 oz 4.9% Crystal aroma (5 mins)
- --2 oz homegrown ??% Saaz dry hop
- --wyeast 2237

I have really enjoyed the beers I have made with the above hopping
schedules, I prefer my ales to have at least 80  IBUs though, so you may
want to take this into consideration when adapting these schedules for
your own use.

Kevin in Salt Lake City...soon to be moving to MI




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Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 14:11:03 -0500
From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>
Subject: Re: Classic American Pilsner update / Keg Conversion

Hey all, 

I just wanted to say thanks to Jeff Renner for writing The Classic American
Pilsener article and for helping me to realize how great this style is. 

For any of you that think American Lagers have always been whimpy I
challange you to make a beer in the classic American Pre-Prohibition style
and see if you still feel the same. I lay all my cash on the fact that you
will fall in love with this delicate style like I did. 

you can find my recipe for Pre Pro Pils in Karl Lutzen's Gambrinus Mug
archives (Cuz I never put it in my own for some reason) 

http://brewery.org/brewery/gambmug/recs/112.html 

I also feel that the BJCP and the AHA should look into making this style an
accepted one. 


Someone wrote:

>I have  the chance to get a couple of beer kegs with the black rubber
>bottom.  Can this be removed to make boiling pots? If so, how and is
>the keg still stable?  

I believe that the rubber coating is just that... once you remove it (which
is not fun at all) you have your standard SS sanke style keg. And they a
very stable.

C'ya!

 -Scott "Brew Free Or Plaid!" Abene





################################################################
#                     ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT                        #
#                Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>                 #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) #
#                                                              #
#                                                              #
# "The More I know About Cathy Ewing, The More The AHA SUCKS"  #
################################################################
 



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Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:57:56 -0700
From: "Gregory A. Lorton" <glorton at cts.com>
Subject: Re: Teflon burning

In HBD #2759, Ron LaBorde wrote

> I wish I could supply references, but from memory only, a long time ago,
> I have heard that burning Teflon will emate Phosgene gas, a deadly
> poison.  So humans could become dead birds.
>
> Teflon is safe as long as it is not burning. 

Teflon is polymerized tetrafluoroethylene (C2F4).  Teflon is duPont's
tradename, the official chemical name is polytetrafluoroethylene (sometimes
referred to as PTFE).  Teflon doesn't contain any chlorine compounds, so it
won't decompose to phosgene (COCl2), but then fluorine compounds are
arguably worse than chlorine compounds from a health perspective.

Teflon is very inert under normal conditions.  It doesn't readily burn, per
se.  However, at high temperatures it will decompose to produce some very
dangerous compounds.  According to "Hazardous Chemicals Desk Reference"
(2nd edition), "The finished polymerized compound is inert under ordinary
conditions... When heated to above 750F it decomposes to yield highly toxic
fumes of F-."  (The F- (ionized fluorine) in air is a really nasty
compound, for bird, humans, and any other animal in the vicinity.)

Greg Lorton
Carlsbad, CA


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Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 17:20:39 -0400
From: Rick Theiner <logic at skantech.com>
Subject: Amazing Regenerating Hop Rhizomes

> Apparently, a local rabbit found it to be a tasty treat too and left 
> only a leaf. This was about three weeks ago and I haven't seen any new 
> activity from this one. Is my rhizome ruined?

I doubt it.  I would definately stay vigilant about protecting it,
though.  A story of my own:  The local squirrels found my rhizomes to be
interesting although untasty.  They would bite off a piece of bine then
leave it-- and the shoots kept on coming.  When I returned from the
hardware store with my wire to make a tent so that the hops could have a
chance, I discovered that one of those ****ing squirrels had dug up one
of the rhizomes and shredded it, leaving only a third of it intact.

Needless to say, I was pretty unhappy, but replanted the rhizome in a
desperate hope that my Mt. Hood hops would come after all.  And about 3
weeks later, a new shoot appeared.  Amazed the hell out of me.

Hope this reassures you.

Rick Theiner
LOGIC, Inc.
LOGIC at skantech.com


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Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 16:28:07 -0500
From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>
Subject: Brew Cams

Hiya, 

About 8-9 months ago I got a free TEKRAM Digital Web Camera kit from work
(one of the Downsides of being a webmaster for a major Computer Wholesaler I
guess). I put the thing up and started broadcasting my image and such across
the internet while I was in my Homebrew Chatroom. 

After about a month I started broadcasting my brewing session over the web
so the regulars in the chat could see and point out what I was doing wrong... 

I thought that it was kind of cool. I got a friend a freebie Cam and he
started broadcasting his brewing sessions over the web a couple of months
later. Well then... Another of my chat regulars bought a cam and started
doing the same thing. 

So what the hell is my point??? 

Here's the deal. There has been mention of a couple of other brewers on here
that also have cams and are either brewing online with them or simply
setting up Carboy cams.. 

Who are you? 
Where are you?
Are you brewing live accross the web?


Please email me ( skotrat at wwa.com ) with the cam addresses and a brief bio
of your Brew Cam sites. I would love to put together a www page solely for
"Brew Cams" and possibly even start a Homebrew Cam WebRing or something.


Thanks much peoples.

C'Ya!

 -Scott "I hear Charlie P has someone else brew his Homebrew For Him" Abene



################################################################
#                     ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT                        #
#                Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>                 #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) #
#                                                              #
#                                                              #
# "The More I know About Cathy Ewing, The More The AHA SUCKS"  #
################################################################
 



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Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 16:34:42 -0500
From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>
Subject: Plate Chillers


Hmmmm, 

I am looking into the idea of using a Cold plate type deal to chill my beer
when it is coming out of my Boiler. 

is there a Prof type plate out there that can chill say 30-35 gallons of hot
wort and bring it down to say 65f quickly? 

Maybe someone ("The Al", "The Gump"?) could point me in the right direction
for this kind of info.

 -C'ya!

 -Scott "How's that Plaid Carboy in your Basement Doing Babcock?" Abene 

################################################################
#                     ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT                        #
#                Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>                 #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) #
#                                                              #
#                                                              #
# "The More I know About Cathy Ewing, The More The AHA SUCKS"  #
################################################################
 



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Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 16:45:30 -0500
From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>
Subject: Free To Good Home!

Heya, 

I have a 7.5 gallon Zapap style lauter-tun/mash tun that is collecting dust
from 3 years of not being used and I bet it would love for a nice kind
Homebrewer to come save it from the corner of my basement. It is the
standard plastic bucket type deal with plastic valve. 

Hmmm, you guys ever notice that ZAPAP spelled backwards is PAPAZ? I bet
somewhere in the Complete Joy of Homebrewing there are three 6's together too!

I also have at least 10-20 cases of bottles free to a good home. My only
condition is that they be used and not gather any dust like they are now. 

I am in the Chicago Metro area and prefer they go to someone near me that
can come pick them up and I may even throw in my CORONA mill that I haven't
used in 2 1/2 years for nothing too! 

If you are interested drop me an email ( skotrat at wwa.com ) and I will make
arrangements with you. This stuff would be perfect for someone just starting
out with all grain and hey!

IT'S FREE!!!!!

C'YA!

 -Scott "I hear Jethro enjoys sheep now and again" Abene




################################################################
#                     ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT                        #
#                Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>                 #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) #
#                                                              #
#                                                              #
# "The More I know About Cathy Ewing, The More The AHA SUCKS"  #
################################################################
 



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Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 16:58:18 -0500
From: Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>
Subject: Firkins???


Hey all, 

Friday morning July 3rd, I woke up and found two 7.75 gallon Firkins sitting
on my front porch. 

Still I have no idea who left them there... I really don't have a clue. All
I know is that I can use them for kegging and that is all that matters.

Is there anyone on the digest that can identify these type of kegs and tell
me that they are indeed Firkins?

I have posted pics that I took with my webcam and you can see them here:

http://beatles.andinator.com/~skotrat/equipment/firkin/775bot.jpg

http://beatles.andinator.com/~skotrat/equipment/firkin/775side.jpg

http://beatles.andinator.com/~skotrat/equipment/firkin/775side1.jpg

http://beatles.andinator.com/~skotrat/equipment/firkin/775top.jpg

Does anyone know where I can find fittings to tap them? 
Does anyone know where I can get a hold of a wrench to fit the valves so I
can open and clean them?

These things look much like the "Golden Gate" Keg I used for a hot liqour
tank for the last 2 years if that helps but they are stamped "Anhueser
Busch". I didn't realize Bud ever used kegs of this style... 

Thanks and 

C'YA!

 -Scott "Hmmmm Plaid" Abene

################################################################
#                     ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT                        #
#                Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com>                 #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) #
#                                                              #
#                                                              #
# "The More I know About Cathy Ewing, The More The AHA SUCKS"  #
################################################################
 



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Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 04:37:17 -0700
From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Water / Al / Abstinence / Gap / FGs

Dave Humes asks for some opinions on water treatment:

1.  Add salts to the mash only to adjust the pH, don't waste your time
adding salts to the sparge water.  To lower the pH use lactic acid, it
is much easier to work with than salts.  Only use CaCO3 to increase the
mash pH.  Remember how much CaCO3 (or other salts) you added and the
volume of the mash water, this will be important later on when you are
trying to hit your target ions.

2.  Add flavor ions to the boil.  The only important flavor ions are
sulphate (up to 300 ppm) and chloride (up to 200 ppm).  Sodium is only
advisable with chloride (salt), and then only less than 100 ppm for
each. Ignore the use of CO3, Ca, and Mg as flavor contributors, their
effects are negative or nil.  This same line of reasoning should be used
when trying to interpret recipes of famous brewing waters, ignore
Ca/CO3/Mg, focus on SO3/Cl/Na.
 
3.  The ions added to the mash will be diluted by the amount of the mash
water divided my the post boil volume.  Add more ions as needed to the
boil to correct for the amount that has been diluted.  Use the post boil
volume as the basis when calculating the amount of ions to add to the
boil (doh!).
 
4.  Use an activated carbon filter to treat your brewing water.

Aluminum:
The only negative Jeff Renner forgot to mention regarding aluminum
kettles is that they are not as tough as SS (they scratch and dent
easier).

Chimay Red:
Greg Lorton gave me some tips on form when making my beloved Chimay Red,
but he forgot to mention the recipe.  I have heard some comments about
warning folks from "bannana headaches" when making this brew.  How do I
avoid this?
 
Gap Settings:
JackS implies that the need for an adjustable nip when milling grain is
a
myth.  If this is true, then the fine/coarse difference as an indicator
of malt modification and extract potential is a useless measure.  I
guess brewers have been duped by this measure over the last 50 years. 
Another brewing momily busted...  I guess I'll have to throw out my
adjustable mill along with the wort chiller.
 
Knock Out Sludge:
Thanks the the HBDer (forgot the name) who gave us the tip to use the
kettle knock out sludge for reading the OG.  Pour it out in a glass and
let it settle over night, then take your reading.  Adding on to this
idea, I think I will starting taking FGs when pouring the first glass
from a freshly tapped keg. That first pint or so from a new keg is
always (for me) cloudy.
 

Kyle Druey
Bakersfield, CA


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Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 19:18:42 +0000
From: "John W. Rhymes" <jwrhymes at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Mechanical agitation

> From: Michael Rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net>
> Subject: Mechanical agitation, posting idea
> 
> John Rhymes writes;
> > Mechanical agitation and heat -- any energy input -- will greatly 
> > accelerate oxidation and other adverse reactions in your beer.  If 
> > you are able to keep your beer in a cool and consistent environment, 
> > any flaws in the process are less likely to become evident.  If your 
> > beer is subjected to agitation and heat, any flaws will all too 
> > quickly become evident.
> 
> I understand the damage heat can do to beer, but I don't understand how
> mechanical agitation can do damage. Anybody care to explain this?
> 

I'm not sure if agitation alone at low temperature would have a 
meaningful effect.  I do believe that, at a given temperature, 
agitation will accelerate reactions.

The best example that comes to mind is isomerization of hop resins in 
the boil.  A vigorous boil will give better hop utilization than a 
slow boil.  The temperature is the same, but the physical movement of 
the wort promotes the reactions.  I've also seen references to 
magnetic stir plates being used to increase yeast growth in starters, 
with claims of "up to 10 fold increases".

I would like to hear from the hard-science folks.  Am I off base 
here?  I've tried to find an authoritative reference, either pro or 
con, but I've not found anything that addresses the point.

John W. Rhymes -- Birmingham, Alabama
jwrhymes at mindspring.com


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Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 20:46:46 -0400
From: rsda at istar.ca
Subject: BW yeast too pooped?

There have been a couple of posts about the dangers of using a barley wine
yeast for further brewing purposes. Perhaps if these had been posted earlier
I wouldn't have brewed 2 subsequent batches and obviously wouldn't be
posting now. 

Anyway for what it's worth here are my observations with Nottingham ale yeast.

Apr 30:- rehydrated original dry Nottingham and added to 1/2 l starter
May 2 :- brewed IPA (1.070) - used original starter - good activity within 2
hours - ended at 1.014  
May 22:-brewed BW (1.096) - 2nd generation -crazy activity within 2 hours -
ended at 1.018 -  split yeast crop in 2
June 20:-brewed porter (1.060)  - 3rd generation - good activity within 2
hours - ended at 1.015
June 28:-brewed IPA (1.070) - 3rd generation- good activity within 2 hours
 -ended 1.016 

In other words, nothing unusual. Was I lucky or?

Stuart



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Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 20:17:09 -0400
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Snapple Bottles

Tom Puskar asks about using spent Snapple bottles.  I use them to pressure
cook starter wort.  Just 1/2 fill them and pressure cook them.  When I'm
stepping up from a slant, I move from a test tube, to a partially filled
Snapple bottle...really.  Already sterile, just aerate, pitch the starter
and put on a stopper and airlock.  Voila'
 
Nathan in Madison, WI


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Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:24:51 -0400
From: dbgrowler at juno.com (michael w bardallis)
Subject: co2 oops

Reading my previous post on keg dispensing pressure, I realize that I
goofed:

"As an example, if you want to maintain 2.5 volumes at 40 deg F., you'll
need to put about 12 psi on that baby, plus a little extra to push the
beer out, say 2 psi. (it don't take much)"

Aaack! That extra pressure would just boost co2 volume further. The thing
to do is set the regulator to 12 (or whatever gives the right co2 level,
and see how fast the beer comes out. Too fast? Add more pressure drop in
the form of longer, or smaller ID, dispense tubing. Bar-type faucets give
more restriction than "picnic" taps, as well. Too slow? Same adjustments
in reverse. 

Mike "clear beer, murky advice" Bardallis
Allen Park, MI

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Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:40:37 +1000
From: Peter.Ward at bankerstrust.com.au
Subject: re: skunk smell


In HBD #2756 Samuel Mize writes:

>Corona is famous for skunking.

>It's an OK cheap beer in Mexico, I understand, if you get it fresh.  Some
>people in the USA have acquired a taste for it with mild skunking, and
even
>think it tastes "wrong" if they get a fresh one.

In Australia, I have never been served a Corona without a piece of lime
(or sometimes lemon) stuck down the neck of the bottle. Is the purpose of
the
lime to act as some form of 'de-skunking' agent???

Peter Ward




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Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 08:22:49 -0700
From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net>
Subject: Quarterly Blue Moon Wit Discussion

Well folks, its probably time once again for the quarterly Blue Moon
Belgian Ale discussion and how bad or good it is versus the "real"
thing. 
I had the opportunity to purchase a bottle of the Wit aficionado's holy
grail, Hoegaarden Wit, aka the real thing.  I cracked open the treasured
bottle, poured it into a champagne flute, and gathered in a sip.  I
thought, "Blue Moon would taste just like this if you doped it with a
little lactic acid".  From the coveted Hoegaarden I couldn't taste any
spices, no curacao orange peel, and a very subtle acidic finish.  

The beer was very good mind you (would rather sip this than swill a
Corona), but it did not live up to the hype.  I know, you could say that
the bottle sat on the shelf in the liquor store for umpty ump months, at
an umpty ump temperature, under the fluorescent lights, blah blah blah. 
I am sure it is a totally different beer on tap.   The beer did give me
an appreciation for a lactic bacteria produced finish (has an acidic
lactic bite), versus a lactic acid finish (has a lactic acid tang).

So here's to Blue Moon Wit, and maybe a few drops of lactic acid in the
glass.

Also tasted Grimbergen Triple.  Wow, was this a treat!

Kyle
Bakersfield, CA


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Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:09:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Barnet <barnets at physics.auburn.edu>
Subject: fermentation temp.


Hello all,

	i have recently started making lager beers and have noticed that 
fermentation seems to be much slower than with the ales i've brewed in the
past.  i realize of course that temperature is a significant parameter 
here, but i thought that the lager yeast is supposed to be at home at  
cooler temperatures, (say 50-60 F).  is this something that is quite 
normal or am i simply underpitching? (i'm using wyeasts and pitching 
when they swell to what appears to be maximum capacity).  should i be 
making a starter?  thanks.  tom barnett.   


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