---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  "culuturing" over flame -clarification of previous post (Jon Bovard)
  Cornish Ale ("Mark Ellis")
  Krautulism/Kubessa/Krystal malt ("Steve Alexander")
  Re: Keg Conversion ("John Lifer, jr")
  Flaming cultures... (Some Guy)
  Metallic Taste (Cava Christopher)
  RE basement propane use (Joe Rolfe)
  teflon; Corona/lime; crystal (Samuel Mize)
  Posting recipes on club website (Doug Moyer)
  Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout ("Michael O. Hanson")
  Keg Foaming ("Watkins, Tim")
  Recipes (TPuskar)
  Hoegaarden Wit ("Houseman, David L")
  Fining in the kettle with Irish moss (Dave Humes)
  Crystal and unfermentables (Al Korzonas)
  Crystal and melonoidins (Al Korzonas)
  Torrified wheat / gram scale (Doug Moyer)
  Aromatic (Al Korzonas)
  Indoor Propane, but not the combustion byproducts ("Tim Fields")
  Oud Bruin (Al Korzonas)
  Roller mill gap ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Hops that don't work (Al Korzonas)
  Put a cork in it buddy (Charley Burns)
  Re: Hop Combination (Alan Edwards)
  Plate chillers (Al Korzonas)
  Limes in Corona (Al Korzonas)
  Starter size, yeast anti-microbial properties (mark.mallett)
  Re: Trub (the part on Sanitation though) (Peter.Perez)
  Italian Made SS 304 Kettles? (JLNail)
  How Soon Is OneStep Safe? ("Steven J. Owens")
  RE:Rubber Bottom Kegs (Greg Jessen)
  Fridge, Basements & Propane (AllDey)


Have you entered a MCAB qualifier yet?


NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS:  hbd.org 

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.) 

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. 
**SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL
**ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! 
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
  the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!

For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery at hbd.org

Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org

Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via:

  Anonymous ftp from...
	ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests
	ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

  AFS users can find it under...
        /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 16:10:32 +1000
From: Jon Bovard <jonbovard at geocities.com>
Subject: "culuturing" over flame -clarification of previous post

Greetings to the collective.

Perhpas I was a bit vague when in a previous HBD i described a process
microbiologists use to aseptically use to transfer yeast during culture
growth procedures.

When I said that micro-biologists "culture" over flame. I mean that they
actually transfer yeast from a slant to a starter bottle or a wyeast
pack to a slant..

Supposedly the presence of a naked flame or heat source eg. Bunsen
burner or 4 ring burner etc, creates an aseptic curtain.

Is this true or to what degree is it a myth?

Many Thankyou's
Jon In brisbane
Home of the remaining DUFF beer cans..


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:50:08 +1000
From: "Mark Ellis" <mellis at gribbles.com.au>
Subject: Cornish Ale

Hi All,

Yesterday I cracked open a tube/can of John Davey's Premium Traditional
Cornish Ale made by the Redruth Brewery in Cornwall. Magnificent!!

This is something really different, that I think you should try. Very low
bitterness, but with a completely luscious sweet malt aroma and flavour with
caramel tones and a purposeful touch of diacetyl butterscotch in perfect
harmony with its 4.5% alc/vol. Huge mouthfeel.

Now that it is apparent that I quite like this ale, I was wondering if
anyone else has had drinking and/or brewing experience with this regional
style, as I would love to emulate this ale, but such BIG flavours leave me a
little gun shy in attempting it. Any help would be appreciated.

Mark E. in Oz




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 05:21:52 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Krautulism/Kubessa/Krystal malt

From: "George P. Lohmann" asks re kraut ...

>Is simmering really necessary? Is fermenting kraut really any more risky
>than fermenting beer, wine or yogurt? One of the appeals of homebrew
>(beer or kraut) is that its fresh and unpasteurized.

Yes. The cabbage medium, unlike wort or milk, is never sterilized or
pasteurized.  Wine has the advantage of high initial acidity, high phenol
levels low protein levels and rather high levels of natural yeasts to help
prevent bacterial growth. Kraut normally contains enterobacteria and the
cabbage may have been irrigated with water from a source that includes, for
example, farm runoff.  A kraut fermentation, aside from the brine, has little
to protect it from bacterial infections till the lactic acidity builds up
(slowly). I still doubt that kraut is a likely culprit for serious problems -
but is cold kraut really such a treat?  I like mine warm.
- --
Charlie Scandrett wrote about huskless mashing Mar 19, 1996 -
the pre-kubessa process..
- --
 Charlie also wrote about caramelization  and maillard product in HBD ~3 april
1997 - this note is well worth reviewing re the crystal malt discussion.

It appears that several malt vendors such as DWC describe their crystals as
less fermentable, but .... that begs the question - exactly why.

Steve






Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 05:51:56 -0500
From: "John Lifer, jr" <jliferjr at misnet.com>
Subject: Re: Keg Conversion

Someone asked about converting a keg with rubber bottom to a brew
kettle. I just did this a few weeks ago and would not do it again unless
I was paid big money for the job!  Unless you find a keg with the rubber
loose, It is very difficult to do.  I ended up using an razor/roofing
knife and hammer and wedges to drive between rubber and keg.  About a
good hour of hard work. And you get a rounded bottom keg that will not
sit on a flat surface. Be aware of that before you start.
John
- --
Cornelius Ball Lock Kegs for Sale
See Web page for details.
http://www2.misnet.com/~jliferjr/Kegs/Default.htm




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 06:55:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Flaming cultures...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Jon Bovard of Down Under asks about manipulating yeast over a flame...

The heat of the flame causes the air above whatever you're manipulating to
rise;  thereby floating anything that may have been carried DOWN by the
ambient air up and away. Simple convection. Not sure how "aseptic" that
might be, but it does help to prevent contamination due to fallout (within 
reason, of course...). Being that even a laminar flow hood is "iffy" if the 
interior is contaminated, a propane torch is a pretty cheap alternative.

See ya!

The Man From Plaid in SE Michigan      pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor               janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                           http://hbd.org   
The Home Brew Page                     http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
                   And Yeast-god Wannabe
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:15:38 -0400
From: cavac at stjohns.edu (Cava Christopher)
Subject: Metallic Taste



I decided to brew a very light beer for the summer (this was very light and
very simple - please no mean spirited comments).  It was a simple 3.3 pounds
of extract (pre-hopped) with an additional 1 pound of dry malt extract (very
light).  I boiled two gallons water and added extract (both), then added
about three and a half gallons of cold water; waited till the temperature
dropped a little more, then pitched the yeast (dry, one packet).  It went
into a plastic primary and stayed there too long (active fermentation
stopped in about 4 days, but I left it in there for over three and a half
weeks).  I just moved it to a secondary last night (to clear it for a day,
though it is fairly clear) and I stopped to taste some of it at the end.  It
had a *very* metallic taste, as if there had been metal filings in the
glass.  The beer itself smelled fine and looked fine (no funky growth on the
surface).  I have heard that if left long enough, yeast will start eating
dead yeast cells - has this happened here?  Can the beer be recovered?  Will
the taste go away if I leave it rest for a week or two?  Any advice or
opinions is appreciated.  E-mail me directly or post to the list.



Christopher Cava
Information Tech.
St. John's University
cavac at stjohns.edu




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:49:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net>
Subject: RE basement propane use

In my last post i may have forgotten one small item in regards
to "casual" propane use in the dwelling - insurance.

If you rent or if you own it or if it is your parents house, check
the policy regarding fire hazards.  ours did not cover our particular
usage (commercial brewery) and as such we had to buy an "extra".
it did not cover these type of "rocket burner" type stoves unless
installed by a licensed plumber.  the licensed plumbers i talked to
also did not want to make mods to these burners (even just an add on
saftey device) with out engineering work. again this is from the 
plumbers insurance company.  

Another person (same state btw) i know that started a brewery in the
basement, needed to purchase a commercial quality stove to get
a permit, again installed by a licensed plumber.  his insurance
policy covered this type of equipment which i assume due to the
stove having a "good housekeeping seal of approval".

Again all required permits for other than casual uses, but had insurance
issues that need to be understood before hand.  

sorry i am parnoid of the lawyers
good luck great brewing

joe rolfe



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:09:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize at ns1.imagin.net>
Subject: teflon; Corona/lime; crystal

> From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
> Subject: Teflon burning

> I have heard that burning Teflon will emate Phosgene gas, a deadly
> poison.  So humans could become dead birds.

I don't recall the exact poison.  Overheated teflon (doesn't have to
be flaming) will indeed emit poisonous gases.  I don't know about the
more modern coatings, I'd assume they are similar chemicals.

It hits birds harder because any poison hits them harder, since their
metabolisms are much faster than ours.  Remember canaries in coal
mines?  Typically, you can overheat a skillet (or singe a washer)
without doing yourself lasting harm, since the concentration of poison
gas will be low.  But your birds may well croak.  If you overheat
enough teflon, you may join them.

 - - - - - - - - - -
> From: Peter.Ward at bankerstrust.com.au
> Subject: re: skunk smell

> In Australia, I have never been served a Corona without a piece of lime
> (or sometimes lemon) stuck down the neck of the bottle. Is the purpose of
> the lime to act as some form of 'de-skunking' agent???

Some say so -- not that it eliminates the skunking but that it covers it
up.  OTOH, a frequent poster told me that it started with use of lime
wedges (generally available in bars) to wipe off the bottle tops after
opening.  I haven't seen any documentation on either theory.

Today it's pretty much a marketing gag -- I was quite annoyed a couple of
weeks ago to have to pull a lime wedge out of a bottle of Negra Modelo.
If I WANTED Two Dogs I would have ordered it.  You can also get unwanted
(by me) lemon wedges with a draft weizen, but at least then it's easy to
avoid the citrusy part of the glass.

 - - - - - - - - - -
Crystal malt -- it seems to add unfermentables (residual sweetness) when
steeped.  Perhaps mashing breaks some of these down to fermentable sugar?

Best,
Sam Mize

- -- 
Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada
Fight Spam: see http://www.cauce.org/ \\\ Smert Spamonam


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:36:26 -0400
From: Doug Moyer <Douglas.Moyer at geics.ge.com>
Subject: Posting recipes on club website

This request goes out to a very specific subset of the collective, the
webmasters of their club's website. All else are welcome to page down.

How do you post beer recipes on your website? Our site is on a UNIX
server. I have made pages based upon SQL queries using Cold Fusion on an
NT platform, but I don't have a clue about using databases or datafiles
on a UNIX server. (As you might guess, I'm not really sufficiently
techie for the position of club webmaster, but I am available!) If you
could give me examples of code, etc., I would greatly appreciate it!

TIA & ciao
Doug Moyer
Salem, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity/
My baby pictures: http://www.rev.net/~kmoyer/


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 10:57:56 -0700
From: "Michael O. Hanson" <mhanson at winternet.com>
Subject: Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout

Hello fellow homebrewers,

Does anyone out there know of or know where I can find an extract-based
recipe that comes out tasting something like Samuel Smith's oatmeal stout?
I know extract is considered inferior to all-grain brewing by some brewers.
 I would agree that all-grain brewing makes better beer when the grain is
handled properly.  However, I have a friend who wants to try to make beer
resembling Samuel Smith's oatmeal stout.  He hasn't had any brewing
experience.  I don't want to show him how to brew entirely with grain yet.    

Thanks in advance,

Mike Hanson





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:12:56 -0400
From: "Watkins, Tim" <Tim.Watkins at analog.com>
Subject: Keg Foaming

Greetings all...

Dave Humes in HBD2757 asked about excessive foaming of his keg lines...

>The beer I have kegged now is a Bavarian wheat, which is
>carbonated to about 3.5 volumes.  To maintain that >level, I have to
>keep about 27 PSI head pressure on the kegs at the 44F >serving
>temperature.  But, if I try to serve at that pressure >all I get are
>glasses full of foam.

Since no one else has addressed this, I'll attempt to here.  Dave
mentioned that he's using a 4' length of 3/16" ID tubing to dispense
with.  Way, way too short of a length here.  3/16"ID tubing will drop
about 3 pounds per foot (or thereabouts, I don't have my charts handy).
You need to drop nearly all of the 27 pounds of pressure across that
line.  My calculations figure that you'd need at least 9' of 3/16"ID
line to drop that much pressure.  In my experience, it's always best to
buy a few feet more than you think you need, and then trim it down to
where it dispenses normally.  Beer line is pretty cheap, so I'd probably
buy about 12 feet of line and start there.

Tim in
Lowell, MA


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:51:59 EDT
From: TPuskar at aol.com
Subject: Recipes

Does anyone have or know where I can get a recipe for a clone of Sam Adams
Summer ale?

Thanks,

Tom Puskar


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:56:19 -0400 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Hoegaarden Wit

Kyle Druey was disappointed with Hoegaarden Wit compared to Blue Moon.
While I can't say what he found in that bottle, I can say that
Hoegaarden Wit served on tap in Brussels is very nice.  The differences
in Hoegaarden (and other Belgian wits) compared to Blue Moon and Wit! in
the US is the subtlety of the spices used compared to many
interpretations here.  I actually liked both Blue Moon and Wit! but felt
that the uses of coriander was way over done compared to "the real
thing."  It really created a different beer.  In general I feel that the
best use of spices are when they are subtle and used sparingly.  Often
the descriptions of beers end up leaving one with an impression that's
not really quite on point.  The acidity of wits is again very subtle
compared to how I've seen it interpreted in homebrews.  Doesn't make
them bad beers just if the goal is to emulate the commerical product, go
lightly with spices and the lactic acid.

Dave Houseman  


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 12:49:47 -0500
From: Dave Humes <humesdg1 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Fining in the kettle with Irish moss

Greetings,

The last time I used Irish moss in the kettle I swore I'd never use
it again.  Now I remember why.  I made an America Pale Ale this
weekend and used 4 tsp of Irish moss in an 11 gallon batch.  I
thought this was a fairly modest amount.  What's happened is that I
have this colloidal suspension hanging in the middle of my
fermenters.  Now you might say that's normal and it will drop out. 
But this suspension formed in less than an hour after pitching the
yeast and oxygenating.  Actually, I suspect that if formed during the
cold break in the CF chiller and then just flocked in the fermenters
to the point where it became a well defined, suspended mass.  There
was no CO2 release going on at that point to suspend the cloud. 
Around the cloud, the beer is very clear, even now during high
kraeusen.  The last time I used Irish moss this stuff just did not
want to drop out.  I have much better temperature control now and
might be able to drop it out by crash cooling.  Is this expected
behaviour with Irish moss?  Am I adding too much?  Is it worth the
bother?

Thanks.

- --Dave Humes
Dave Humes                             >>humesdg1 at earthlink.net<<




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:57:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Crystal and unfermentables

Ken writes:
>Obviously a maltster would have more control over the stewing process
>than those of us making crystal at home; I know I have had batches turn
>out distinctly differently with regard to perceptable sweetness, which I
>attribute to temperature.  But in any case, Jeff's point is that even if
>you (or a maltster) made crystal with a high percentage of dextrinous
>sugars, wouldn't they be broken down in a mash just like any other
>existing starch or dextrin?
> 
>Mash regimes that emphasize beta amylase activity should act to degrade
>crystal malt unfermentables, so your point is well-taken.  This may give
>some credence after all to the practice of adding crystal malt at the
>end of the mash (long enough to be incorporated into the wort yet not so
>long as to experience enzymatic degradation, especially since your
>enzymes are pretty much toast at this point).<snip>

Perhaps, but recall there are dextrins called "limit dextrins" which are
not broken down to fermentables by beta amylase.  It has to do with the
branches and whether the bonds are 1-6 or 1-4, but I don't understand
it all well enough to keep this memorised... I suggest looking it up in
George Fix's Principles of Brewing Science.

Last time this came up in 1996 or 1995, I brought up this point and asked
if we can find out what kinds of dextrins and proteins are in crystal
malt, but alas, the question went unanswered.  It seems to me that a
test could be set up quite easily.  If we did indeed do two consecutive
batches where one would have the crystal added at the beginning and the
other had it added near the end, and both were mashed at 150F, we could
measure the difference in FG, if there is one.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:04:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Crystal and melonoidins

George writes:
     The major difference is that crystal malt is rich with melanoidins.  
     This definitely effects the flavor and aroma of the beer thus 
     produced.  The rich, caramel character will add to the perception of 
     sweetness and mouthfeel, regardless of how attenuated the beer is.

Caramel yes, I agree, but I don't taste/smell a lot of melanoidins in
crystal/caramel malts.  If that were the case, you could make decent
Munchner Dunkels, Oktoberfests and Altbiers with simply Pilsner malt
and crystal, but as we both know very well... you *can't*!

Are you sure you meant to say melaniodins and *crystal* malt?

Al.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 13:12:18 -0400
From: Doug Moyer <Douglas.Moyer at geics.ge.com>
Subject: Torrified wheat / gram scale

Dearest collective,
	I ask and ask and ask, and offer nothing in return. Please forgive my
audacity. One day I may grow a point, but for now I am quite
flat-headed.
	Yesterday I brewed Jeff Renner's ginger wit recipe, with a couple of
variations forced upon me by limited supplies. Our local homebrew store
had a sack of Briess torrified wheat (lot # GE09A-A), which I used in
place of the soft, white, winter wheat that Jeff called for. I was under
the impression that torrified wheat was like the puffed wheat you might
find in Sugar Smacks and other breakfast cereals, whereas this stuff was
visually identical to the malted wheat that Jeff was selling (I don't
recall the maltster). Could someone please tell me what torrified wheat
is and the pros and cons of using it? (Obviously, I have already used it
yesterday, but for future reference....)
	Jeff's recipe called for 5 g. freshly ground cardamom (among other
things). I was probably lucky to get +/- 50% accuracy weighing the
cardamom with my 18 oz. mechanical diet scale. Where can I get a decent
(not necessarily certified accuracy) scale for measuring these amounts
without paying an arm & a leg? Back in college, I had friends with
questionable sources of income that could probably get one for me, but
now.....

Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Salem, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity/
Pictures of my baby: http://www.rev.net/~kmoyer/


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:16:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Aromatic

Brian writes:
>and Aromatic (is this a "crystal" malt?)

No... it's like a very dark Munich malt.  It *must* be mashed.  See
my article "What makes Munich malt different" in the Library at The
Brewery website.

Al.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 13:24:59 -0400
From: "Tim Fields" <tfields at his.com>
Subject: Indoor Propane, but not the combustion byproducts

If this point was made relative to the "using propane indoors" thread, I
missed it.  The byproducts of combustion are only one of the hazards. 
If I recall correctly, propane is heavier than air. If you have a leak
somewhere in the system, the propane gas will tend to "puddle" in a low
spot in the room, creating an explosion hazard.  This is one reason why
propane tanks are not supposed to be stored indoors.  There was a long
thread on this subject awhile back - chk the hbd archives for all pov's
if interested.
- -------------------
Tim Fields
    Fairfax, Va
    tfields at his.com ... www.his.com/tfields


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:26:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Oud Bruin

Dave writes:
>I am looking for help in formulating a recipe. I
>have consulted Cat's Meow and Gambrinus' Mug. I also consulted Pierre
>Rajot's book and Phil Seitz' Brewing Belgian Beers. There seems to be some
>variation in recommendations. For example, use of crystal Malt ranges from
>1/4 lb to a full pound (sorry for the anachronistic units but they are
>comfortable). Yeast recommendations are all over and include recomendations
>for pedicoccus and Brett cultures. What about contaminating my equipment
>with this stuff. Some include the red ales as a subset. Oak is also a
>consideration. Seems pretty complicated! Do the  Rodenbach beers fall in
>here? Alexander seems pretty wonderful.

Yes... most consider Rodenbach to be a Flanders Red Ale, but technically
it is an Oud Bruin.  In my opinion, what separates a Flanders Brown
from a Flanders Red is that the latter has a lactic sourness.  I judged
an Oud Bruin to be Best of Show at a competition and, after the awards,
I asked the brewer (Chris Nemeth) what was his recipe.  He said it was
the Phil Seitz recipe, followed to the letter.  I've looked at the Seitz
recipes and endorse them strongly.  I'm not sure where you can get these
recipes anymore, maybe at The Brewery?  Alas, Phil is no longer with us,
having left this land for that better place we all dream of... BELGIUM!

By the way, Alexander is just Rodenbach Grand Cru with cherry syrup added.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:20:29 +0000
From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Roller mill gap

I was browsing through a copy of Lutzen & Stevens'  _Brew Ware_ at a 
bookstore this weekend and noticed that in the plans for a roller 
mill, they recommend a setting of .050 inches for milling 2-row 
American malt (Briess, I think, but I'm not positive).  I use a 
PhillMill, which uses 1 roller and a plate, so I can't measure the 
gap, but I just adjusted and eyeballed it until the crush looked 
about right.

Tidmarsh Major
tidmarsh at mindspring.com
Birmingham, Alabama


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:49:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Hops that don't work

Larry writes:
>I've found 
>certain hop combinations work better than others for various 
>styles, and I'm sure other brewers have too.
> 
>For example, one combo I've found to be particularly good is Perle 
>(bittering) and Ultra (aroma and dry hopping) in English pale ales 
>(33 IBU) using Wyeast 1007. It provided an incredible hop nose like 
>nothing else I've ever tried.

First, I'd like to mention that, while you may love the hop nose
of this combination, Ultra was developed as a Hallertauer replacement
and contains some Saaz in it's lineage (which explains its low
alpha levels and peppery/spicy aroma).  To me the Saaz heritage
is obvious in the aroma.  This can be criticised by some judges
in an English Ale which typically has the resiny aroma of Goldings
or the rustic/woody character of Fuggles.  What I mean is, if you
like it, *great*, but it could be considered out-of-style by some.

As for hops that work/don't work... the only hop-related beer problem
that I had was a Bohemian Pilsner that I foolishly tried dryhopping
with Czech Saaz.  Right hop, wrong method.  It didn't smell *anything*
like a Bohemian Pilsner after I dryhopped it!

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 98 12:07 PDT
From: caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns)
Subject: Put a cork in it buddy

I know a lot of us brew outdoors, but do you also store your equipment out 
there? I've left my mashtun and kettle on the back patio for 2 years now and 
never had a problem. Well, except for that time when my dog tried to eat the 
mash tun, but thats another story.

I get a little lazy sometimes when it comes to clean up, especially the 
mashtun. A couple weeks ago I decided to really give it a good cleansing. 
Soaked it for a few days and then scrubbed it super clean. Cleaned out the 
copper tubing manifold (its not soldered so comes apart for cleaning). So, 
when it came time to make an Oktoberfest this weekend I knew the beer would 
come out clean tasting. Especially since I broke down and actually purchased 
a fresh Wyeast smakpack (instead of begging a local brewpub for some 
slurry). I had a 2 quart starter going strong at pitching time.

Anyway, following the recommendation of a brewer the other day, I stabilized 
the temp of the strike water in the mashtun just prior to doughin. Hit the 
initial rest of 135F perfect. Pulled first and second decoctions and nailed 
rest temps both times. Man, this brew was really looking good.  Of course 
when its 90F outside in the shade, its not very hard to hold rest temps even 
in a poorly insulated mashtun.  Then came the sparge.

No problem, got my new half barrel kettles, stacked up high enough to let 
gravity do its thing and started the recirc. Only the cloudy wort came out 
but wouldn't go back in! I always let the first runnings out into a bucket 
with a spigot built into it. I shut off the mashtun drain when the wort runs 
clear, anywhere from half gallon to 1.5 gallons depending on grist. This 
time it was less than a gallon to produce clear wort. Then I raise the 
bucket with first runnings above the mash tun, attach a tube from the bucket 
to the inlet side of the sparge water sprinkler and let gravity take over. 
This time it didn't. Hmmmm. Somthing plugged up the copper tubing.

I got a wire hanger and tried to ream out the copper tubing - didn't work. I 
got a paper clip, straightened it out and tried jiggling it into the little 
bitty holes in the tubing where the water comes out over the grain bed. 
Nothing. Finally, I blew as hard as I could into the copper tubing inlet. 
All of a sudden it cut loose and splattered something against the inside 
wall of the mashtun - splat! I looked at the holes in the tubing and 
something slimy was hanging out of it. Pulled it out and put my glasses on. 
UGGGGGHHHH! Earthworm! I think I got it all rinsed out before any went into 
the mash, but what they heck. You know what they say about guys that eat the 
worm at the bottom of the tequila bottle - forget Viagra man, eat the worm!

My advice to anyone storing your equipment outside is, put a cork in it 
buddy (any open ended tubing). You never know what may crawl inside otherwise.

Charley (babysitting a big - 1.075 - fest) in N. Cal.



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:57:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Hop Combination

Larry in New Orleans writes:
> Another favorite is Chinook (bittering) with Cascade (aroma and dry
> hopping) in an IPA (45 IBU) with Wyeast 1056. In addition to my
> brew, I've tasted several brewpub offerings with these hops and
> they were pleasant brews as well.
 
For something different, try using Chinook as aroma hops!
 
I had a *lot* of Chinook hops left over from my garden and decided to
try them out as aroma hops.  They have a nice flavor/aroma.  I enjoyed
the results (so did my friends ;-).  I even dry hopped with them on at
least one occasion--it was very good.
 
 -Alan in Fremont, CA


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:24:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Plate chillers

Scott writes:
>is there a Prof type plate out there that can chill say 30-35 gallons of hot
>wort and bring it down to say 65f quickly? 

When you say "plate chiller" I presume you mean the type where a stainless
steel tube is embedded in a lump of aluminium...

I don't think this kind of chilling device is what you want for cooling
boiling wort.  Firstly, it have very slow throughput.  At best you'll
get a rate about even with filling a glass of beer, because that's what
the plate was made to do... chill beer just before dispensing.

Secondly, the tubes are rather narrow and it wouldn't take that much
to clog them.  Either a bit of hop suddenly, or protein buildup over
the years.

Thirdly, they are expensive.  I would recommend either immersion (my
first choice) or counterflow (Hart's did the best in the Zymurgy test,
I believe).  I prefer the immersion chiller because I can readily
see the cleanliness of the surface that touches the beer and I can
sanitize it by simply dunking it into the kettle a few minutes before
turning on the chill water.



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:50:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Limes in Corona

Peter writes:
>In Australia, I have never been served a Corona without a piece of lime
>(or sometimes lemon) stuck down the neck of the bottle. Is the purpose of
>the lime to act as some form of 'de-skunking' agent???

Alas, we have the same silly custom here.

I've heard this story regarding the origin of the lime in Mexican beers.
Whether it's true or not is up to you to decide, but it does make for
a good story...

The story goes like this:

There are a great many unpaved roads in Mexico and when you order a
beer in a rural bar, sometimes you get a bottle and sometimes you get
a can.  You rarely get a glass.  If you get a bottle, no problem.  If
you get a can, it's very likely to have a layer of dirt on top.  To
avoid drinking this dirt, the locals have made a habit of cleaning the
dirt off the can with the closest thing available: a slice of lime,
a plate of which is on the counter for the tequilla drinkers.  Clean
the can and toss the lime in the garbage.  A couple of Madision Ave.
types were down there (lost, no doubt) and saw the locals monkeying
around with limes on the top of their beercans.  "This would sell
in the US!" they said and the custom of putting limes in Mexican
beers was born.

A related story (which is more likely to be true) is that the brewer
of Corona had to hire a bunch of workers to *manually* remove limes
from bottles with coathangers because their bottling line was unable
to remove the limes from the returnable bottles.

Legend?  Truth?  You decide...

Al.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 20:45:22 +0000
From: mark.mallett at bbc.co.uk
Subject: Starter size, yeast anti-microbial properties

Most brewing books say starters should be of large enough volume
 to get the fermentation going rapidly. Two alternate reasons are 
 commonly cited
a) You don't want too much yeast growth as this can spoil the flavour,
b) A short lag time reduces the chance of infection.
The first line seems understandable, but the second seems to lead to 
 yeast having
anti-microbial properties, is this so. I presume it is the CO2 given 
 off, that keeps
bugs outside the fermenting vessel. Any other ideas?


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:02:21 -0400
From: Peter.Perez at smed.com
Subject: Re: Trub (the part on Sanitation though)

Vern writes:

"Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 18:27:23 -0400
From: vland1 at juno.com (Vernon R Land)
Subject: Trub


Sanitation notes:   I once lost my rubber air lock grommet in my pail
trying to jam the air lock in, I went fishing in the wort with my arm
almost up to my shoulder.  I expected an infection but it never happened.
 Seeing this, I then experimented with bottling.  Since bottling is the
biggest PITA associated with this hobby, I skipped the chlorine soak and
simply rinsed with our excellent local  tap water, no infected bottles
after 200 tries.  Perhaps I'm just lucky or maybe we worry a little too
much about killing every last bug."

I have often been suspect of this as well, thinking that our forefathers
probably didn't have One-step and Iodophore, and I am sure they must have
made some pretty good beers.  I know I have been a little less 100%
sanitary with the turkey baster here, a funnel or two there.  And my beers
turn out great.  And I suspect I am not the only one.  Curious what others
have to say about this.

Pete




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:35:18 EDT
From: JLNail at aol.com
Subject: Italian Made SS 304 Kettles?

Greetings all!

Saw an add for the Italian made stainless brew kettles with spigot at a pretty
good price. Question: What is the difference between 18-8 gauge and 304 gauge?
In the photos the 304 looks like a pretty sturdy and reliable gauge of
stainless, but you can never tell with internet photos. And unless my local
brewshop carries these new kettles yet I can never tell in person. Anyone
using these particular kettles (comes in 50 and 100 litre sizes), what do you
think? Or how about the difference in gauge of stainless?

Thanks!

Jonathan
"You can give a man a beer, and he will waste an hour. Teach him to homebrew
and he will waste a lifetime."


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:22:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff at netcom.com>
Subject: How Soon Is OneStep Safe?


Hi folks,

     Just subscribed and this is my first post.  I've been brewing for
about 6 years now, off and on, mostly the smaller 5-gallon stovetop
batches, mostly the easier veryverydark beers.  Starting to
contemplate scaling up a bit.  We have some acquaintances who own bars
and we're thinking about edging into the brewpub arena, on the tiniest
imaginable scale of things.  Sort of a femtobrewpub, more for the fun
of it than anything else.

     The reason I sought out the homebrew mailing list on this
particular evening: how soon is one-stepped dishware safe to eat off
of?  I'm going camping in a couple weeks and I was thinking about
taking along some onestep to make cleaning up after eating a bit
easier.  This is not "roughing it" - we're going to be at a campground
with faucets, etc, but we can't really trust the water.  I'm hoping
onestep might be a convenient way to sterilize any nasties in the
water.

     I know onestep biodegrades and is safe in two weeks, but how safe
is it two hours after you set the plate aside to dry?  Twenty minutes?
Twelve hours?

Steven J. Owens
puff at netcom.com
puff at rt1.net

(P.S. Anybody going to Pennsic?)







Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:48:28 -0600
From: greg at mcn.net (Greg Jessen)
Subject:  RE:Rubber Bottom Kegs


While poking thru my favorite Scrap Yard I spotted a few kegs I think they
were AB
possibly Michelob. They had a black rubber bottom that went up about 1/4 of
the way up.
I thought I had hit on a good deal as I wanted to make a bigger boiler.
Sadly when I
pried off the rubber part they were rounded on the bottom with no ring or
chime so they wouldn't stand up without the rubber piece. I passed on those
and later found some standard
all Stainless ones . It was worth waiting. I would check to see it there is
a metal chime before I bought one with rubber bottom on it.


             Greg Jessen   Billings Montana   greg at mcn.net





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:58:42 EDT
From: AllDey at aol.com
Subject: Fridge, Basements & Propane

Oh Forrest and others,
My whirlpool estate series fridge is running lots more than it should, me
thinks.  Sure, ambient is 76 at 2200 MDT but it hasn't stopped since I've
plopped down (approx 20 min).  The temp controller is set at 47...during
winter months it was holding this nicely and cycling at a relaxed frequency.
It now reads 48.6 and I haven't opened it in a long time (except to quickly
make sure the sensor was submerged).  The sensor is sitting inside in a glass
of veg oil.  I wonder if its protesting the lack of beer inside?  Little
thermal inertia...IMFR?

Are there any guidelines as to how often to expect this fridge to cycle?  Will
the compressor die gracefully and simply leave my hops in the freezer warming
one day soon? I once had a fridge guy come look at a fridge..he charged me $35
bucks (wouldn't take homebrew that infidel) to simply tell me it probably
needed re-charging.  Can one (or two) do this for for a reasonable rate?  Or
is it time to pick a new, used fridge?

Oh, I've brewed happily in my basement with propane for years.  I totally
agree with the recent post stating its probably not wise and mucho precautions
apply.  I have three open windows, fans, and a CO detector.  And I store
outside and check for leaks before every batch.  Still, someday I'd prefer
nat. gas or outside tanks with permanent piping.  I eat red meat.

No wasted band width here.

Please don't welcome me Sam...I've been lurking forever and feel plenty
welcome.

Paul
Cheyenne, WY 


Return to table of contents

---