---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  REPORT: Colorado Brewers Festival (BrewsTraveler)
  broken carboys (Randy Ricchi)
  chiller pre-chillers (Randy Ricchi)
  American Tettnanger Lineage (Alan Edwards)
  Soda Kegs (David Monday)
  Culturing over open flame (David Monday)
  Carboy lime deposits ("Kevin R. Martin")
  Taste of starters; Cooper's Real Ale Malt Kit; One-step sanitizing (Allen Senear)
  RIMS Pumps Magnetic or mechanical drive (Jon Bovard)
  Post fermentation oxidation sources (Dave Williams)
  Wyeast 3068 and beer stability / oxidation / beer and infection ("George De Piro")
  Alcohol 4 sterilization (John Baxter Biggins)
  Dry-hopped Bohemian Pilseners ("Gregory A. Lorton")
  Re: "Jethro Gump Report" (Jack Schmidling)
  re: beginner seeks advice (Tom Lombardo)
  Europe boondoggle (Scott Murman)
  pumpkin brew (Scott Murman)
  CO2 in solution (Michael Rose)
  Going to UK, any don't miss places or unique brews I must (Dan Cole)
  Short Lag Times ("Marc Battreall")


Have you entered a MCAB qualifier yet?


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:26:58 -0600 (MDT)
From: BrewsTraveler at adamsco-inc.com
Subject: REPORT: Colorado Brewers Festival



                        1998 Colorado Brewers Festival 


   The 1998 Colorado Brewers Festival was held in Fort Collins Colorado
   on Saturday and Sunday, June 27/28.  This is 9th edition of this festival
   and is truly the best one in the state for local brewers.

   The weather was on the warm side but Olde Town Fort Collins is the
   perfect setting for such an event.  The historic buildings, the friendly
   mall with bands playing, and the food vendors make the entire experience
   enjoyable (and yes, beer).

   I attended the festival with members of Broomfield's Keg Ran Out Club.
   A multi-club get together was discussed with the Weiss Guys (Loveland
   homebrew club).  I chatted with Palmer Lake's brewer concerning Belgian
   beers, and bumped into old friends Glenn Colon-Bonet (past GABF PPBT
   manager) and Jason Goldman (Spassmacher Brewery).

   This year I found the beers to be better than average and no beer was
   found to have an problems.  Maybe the brewers bring out their best for
   this festival.  

   My personal Best of Show goes to Phantom Canyon's June Bock.  This beer,
   even in 90 degree weather, was outstanding and very enjoyable.  In any
   case I whole-heartedly recommend any of the beers that I sampled and
   suggest you try them for yourself.


   John "The Brews Traveler" Adams
   http://www.adamsco-inc.com/BrewsTraveler

   -----


   Aleopelli Red Ale (3/4)
   Back Alley Brewing Company

   A dry and malty taste and no discernable flaws.  This beer finishes
   clean and somewhat dry.  A nice and drinkable beer.


   Rodeo Stout (3/4)
   Crested Butte Brewery

   Very semi-sweet stout, somewhat dry with a milk-stout like sweetness.
   Nice roasted/chocolate taste.  Clean and refreshing.


   Angry Monk Ale (3/4)
   Redfish New Orleans Brewhouse

   A Belgian Ale with IPA-like qualities.  This beer has the Belgian-like
   phenolic yeast character with an almost ESB-like hop profile (similar
   to my Belgian/IPA).  A unique and interesting and enjoyable sud! 


   10Karat Gold Ale (3/4)
   Tommyknocker Brewery

   At the LoDo festival two weeks prior I tried  their Foolr's Gold Ale so 
   I thought I needed to sample the next step up, the 10K.  Hoppy, clean
   and malty that is light in color and somewhat sweet.  A very pleasant
   and refreshing beer.


   June Bock (3.5/4--Best of Show)
   Phantom Canyon Brewing Company

   A very nice and clean bock.  Slightly hoppier than for style but very
   clean and highly drinkable, even in this hot weather.  An excellent
   beer!


   Annapurna Amber (2.5/4)
   Mountain Sun Pub & Brewery

   Very dark amber in color, this beer is more than an amber but not quite
   a porter.  Hoppy and very malty.  Chocolate malt is evident, clean and
   interesting.


   SP Belgian Ale (3/4)
   Palmer Lake 

   A nice Belgian-style Single.  Very clean and original but not as malty
   as a Dubbel or Trippel,  A very enjoyable beer.


- ---
Brews Traveler(tm)
Copyright 1998 by John Adams


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:33:20 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: broken carboys

My condolences to Thomas Kramer (could you say hello to Cosmo for me?) for
dropping and breaking his carboy full
of freshly pitched wort. What a nightmare. At least you got your wife to
clean up the mess - good plan, cutting your feet just to get out of the
cleanup! :^)

When I go the "shake, rattle & roll" method rather than aerating with my
pump/filter/stone, I place the carboy on a thick throw rug (softer than my
cement basement floor), insert a solid stopper, tilt the carboy until it's
resting on edge, than rock back and forth. You can probably get a more
aggressive shaking going this way rather than holding the whole carboy in
the air, since it requires only one millionth the effort of actually
holding the carboy. And.. you can't drop a carboy that's already on the
floor.




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:34:01 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: chiller pre-chillers

Randy Miner asked about chilling beer with 82 degree tapwater. I use an
immersion chiller, and when I want to get the beer down cooler than the
tapwater, I use another chiller as a pre chiller, just as you proposed. I
set the first (pre) chiller in a plastic bucket, the second chiller in the
wort.  Once the wort is down to around 100 degrees, I dump the ice, along
with some water for convection purposes, into the plastic bucket holding
the pre-chiller. Works great.





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:46:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com>
Subject: American Tettnanger Lineage

Has anyone heard anything more about the debate over if American
Tettnangers are really from the German noble Tettnanager?

I was ordering some from Freshops yesterday, when the (very
nice) guy on the phone let me know that there was some debate
about it.  There is a write-up in a recent Brewing Techniques
(second to the latest issue?) about it; but I cannot find my
copy and didn't read that article.

Apparantly, it's lineage was questioned; someone did some
analasys of the oils and found it to be much closer to Fuggle
in its chemistry.  But the US has been brewing with this breed
for years now!

This is very interesting.  Can anyone share the info from the
BT article?  Does anyone have even more information than that?

Finally, does anyone know of a mail-order place where I can
buy some imported German Tettnanger cones to do comparisons
with?

Thanks!
 -Alan in Fremont, CA


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:51:40 -0700
From: David Monday <dmonday at thegrid.net>
Subject: Soda Kegs

Dear Digest Readers,
I just got a line on some used soda kegs (5 gal, 7-Up types)  at  $20
each.  If anyone else is interested, e-mail me.

Dave in N. Cal.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:24:18 -0700
From: David Monday <dmonday at thegrid.net>
Subject: Culturing over open flame

Another humble experience and opinion:

In hospital microbiology labs I have worked, the practice of flaming the
culture tube mouth before and after inoculation or subculture has not
been the standard protocol.  While this was standard procedure in
college, I have to admit that I have seen no measurable increase in
culture contamination by not "flaming"  the culture tube mouth.

Further, I believe some concern exist with the "open-flame" actually
increasing the turbulence of  unsterile air around the culture medium,
resulting in increased risk of introducing a contaminant to the culture
medium

My advice is to stick with what works.  If your incidence of culture
contamination is rare, you are probably doing things as well as needed.
If you are seeing an increase in your contamination rate, then look at
things such as :  Minimize air drafts, disinfect you work bench well
with 10% bleach (1part to 9 parts H2O made fresh) for 10 - 15 min.,
flame your transfer loop before and after inoculation with organisms,
avoid breathing on your open petri plates or tubes, do isolation plates
before a final subculture onto your growth media used for inoculation of
your starters, etc.  You can also incubate your home-made plates and
slants for a sterility check before using for your culture work.

Hope this helps answer some questions.

Dave in N. Cal.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:06:54 -0500
From: "Kevin R. Martin" <kmartin at creston.heartland.net>
Subject: Carboy lime deposits

Hello fellow brewers,

It is good to see interest in "other than mainstream" beers increasing. 
The more people that get involved, the more we will all benefit.  I
recently went to Brewfest in Des Moines, Iowa.  There were 50+ brews to
sample.  I found a Stout that was excellent.  It was Black Dragon Stout, by
a brewery in Des Moines (I can't remember which one right now, but if you
know, please chime in, because they deserve the credit).  It prompted me to
get a "second sample."

I recently left water in one of my carboys for several weeks.  When I
emptied it, I found that there were little lime deposits all over the
inside, especially toward the bottom.  I thought for a while about what to
do.  I remembered, from my days as an Engineer for Bunn-O-Matic coffee
brewers, that they used to clean lime deposits from tanks & etc using white
vinegar.  I shared an office with an Engineer that had worked for
Bunn-O-Matic for 30+ years.  He told me that he put a pot full of white
vinegar through his coffee brewer about every 6-months to get rid of lime
deposits.  Afterwards, he would flush the coffee pot with 15-20 pots of
water.

I heated about a quart of white vinegar in a saucepan until it was hot to
touch, and dumped it into my carboy.  I then sloshed it around for a while
and waited.  In about 5 minutes, the lime deposites were gone.  

I just thought that I would pass this along for anyone who didn't have the
opportunity to work with someone who could advise them of white vinegar's
ability to remove lime deposits.

Best of brewing to all,
Kevin R. Martin
kmartin at creston.heartland.net 


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:52:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Allen Senear <senear at yahoo.com>
Subject: Taste of starters; Cooper's Real Ale Malt Kit; One-step sanitizing

Kyle Druey in HBD 2764 asked:

I am interested in everyone's opinion on the issue of how a yeast
starter may possibly affect the taste of the finished beer.  

We are admonished to make large starters, up to 1 gallon at times, then
pitch this into the wort.  Maybe your starter's are different, but my
starters taste like Corona without the lime (puke!).  When I think about
it, it has to alter the taste of the beer in some way.  What do y'all
think?


	I too had wondered about this question, having read about how awful
starters taste (I never actually had tried tasting one).  However, I
recently did an (inadvertent) experiment that alleviated my concerns. 
I built up a starter of Wyeast 1056 (American Ale), but was unable to
brew when planned, so the starter spent an extra six days in my
basement doing whatever.  When I finally was able to brew, something
looked a little funny about the culture, and I was concerned about an
infection.  Since I was going to pour off most of the "beer" and
replace it with new food (DME in water), I decided I would taste a sip
to see if I could detect anything grossly wrong with it.  To my
surprise it was actually tasted pretty good.  This was hardly a great
beer (unhooked, of course), certainly not something I would serve to
company .  But it was reasonably refreshing, so I ended up drinking
over a pint, rather than a sip, as I slaved over a hot stove brewing
the beer this starter was intended for.  (By the way the re-fed
starter culture worked just fine.)
	After thinking about this experience I think I have an explanation. 
To make a started we dump some yeast in perhaps a pint or two of
pretty basic wort (DME in H2O, no hops), let the yeast grow and
ferment for perhaps 12 to 30 hours; then maybe repeat the cycle.  At
this point what do we have? A very "green" beer (made from a very dull
wort).  Of course it tastes lousy.  We ferment, bottle and age our
beers for periods of weeks to months each, before we think they are
really good, and I suspect that most of know from sampling at various
times that the beer really does improve with age.  I certainly have
been disappointed at bottling time with a couple of beers that turned
out to be pretty damned good a month later.  I suspect that if any of
you were to have sampled your prize winning whatever after only a day
in the fermentor you would not have liked the results.
	Maybe in the future I'll always start my starters early, with a pinch
of hops, and enjoy my starter beer while I brew the big batch....

***

Now for a question:

	Does anyone know exactly what the recipe for the malt extract in
Cooper's Real Ale Malt Kit is?
	One of my early (and very successful, at least with me) extract brews
was an "ESB" using the liquid malt  extract in Cooper's Real Ale Malt
Kit, along with some DME, Crystal malt, additional hops and Wyeast
1968 (Special London ESB).  Turned out great, a rich and complex brew,
at least to my uneducated palate.
	I am now moving towards all-grain brewing, starting out with a
3-gallon Gott cooler I found in a Thrift store for $3, and a slotted
copper tubing manifold (Thanks to Ken Schwartz for plans from your web
page!) that would allow me to do at least a partial mash.  I had this
together about the time I realized the ESB was getting low, so I
decided I would try doing this as a partial mash brew, replacing the
Cooper's extract (expensive!) with grain, mostly US 2-row pale malt
with additional Crystal and a touch of chocolate malt (this was a
fairly dark beer - probably outside AHA standards, but I don't really
care), and additional (especially bittering) hops (I had found a web
page that had IBU's for a lot of hopped extracts, not Cooper's, but
all in the ballpark.  I put together a recipe that came pretty damned
close - same color, OG, bittering - but some element was missing.  My
"clone" was perhaps 90% as good for 60% of the cost  -  not bad but
I'd like to do better next time.  I know I could experiment, but I'm
not really sure what to try, and random walks can take a long time to
get to unknown goals....

***

Steven Owens asked in HBD 2761 asked about sanitizing dishes with
One-Step while camping.  In the river rafting community this is a
critical issue.  Although we may carry or filter drinking water, doing
so for dish-washing water just isn't feasible.  And if you are several
river days away from the nearest road and the only person with the
knowledge and skills to get your boat there, getting sick just isn't
an option.  So the standard trick with the people I have boated with
(both on private trips and commercially) is do the final rinse (after
washing with detergent) with bleach - a couple of ounces in a bucket
of cold water, then let the dishes air dry; any traces of bleach will
have evaporated long before the next meal time.  Using this method, I
never tasted any residues of bleach, and I've never seen anyone suffer
from water-born illness, although I've seen plenty of sunburns, insect
bites, infected cuts (presumably from exposure to the same water),
dehydration, and hangovers...

***

	As a relative newbie and first time poster (no need to greet me,
Sam), I would like to thank all who contribute to HBD, especially the
recently maligned techno-mavens.  A lot of the stuff was over my head
at the beginning, and I still page down thru a lot  (I have the
scientific background that would allow me to understand the gory
details of water chemistry, but right now I just don't care to be
bothered; I just want my water to be big, fast and challenging
white-water).  But I have learned a tremendous amount from HBD - far
more than from the 3 or 4 books I have read.  When I started brewing a
few months ago, I thought that I might possibly be trying all-grain
brewing in few years, but couldn't have imagined I would be ready
actually be successfully mashing grain at this point.  I was never
intimidated from posting by any aspect of the tone of the discussions
on HBD.  It simply is basically my style to listen quietly when I
first encounter a new activity or community (I guess I could say I'm
shy), and that as a rank beginner I had lots of basic questions about
everything but I very rapidly  learned that the basic questions were
being asked and answered frequently enough on HBD by others that there
was no need for me to ask.  Thank you all...


Allen Senear
Big Water Brewing 
Brewing in Seattle and Rafting in the  Northwest  (and waiting for the
next Grand Canyon permit)





_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 16:53:49 +1000
From: Jon Bovard <jonbovard at geocities.com>
Subject: RIMS Pumps Magnetic or mechanical drive

Greetings to the collective!

Here in Australia people with RIMS systems are as rare as rocking horse
dung. So in my pursuit of a decent RIMS pump I seek the wisdom of the
HBD.

>From my research it seems that the factor which makes this baby so
expensive (300 bucks Aussie) is the magnetic drive. A friend swho is
also a potential RIMS'er tells me that I "dont need a magnetic drive",
"dont waste your money", "you can get away with it cheaper" "use an
internal mechanics pump" etc etc..(unfortunately I disagree)

MY QUESTION IS: What are the necessities of a magnetic drive in a RIMS
system, besides H.S.Aeration (which can be debated of course!)

Ive found a pump with the following specifications

Totton Brand nc/10:
*head 2.2m
*throughput 10.2Litres/minute (non-variable speed)
*Magnetic drive
*temp -20C to 85C
*food grade plastic

I know a guy who uses one and he's happy with it. Unfortunately Im not
excited about paying 300 bucks for one...damn Aussie dollar.

Many thanks
Cheers
Jon Bovard
Brisbane australia
Home of the remaining DUFF beer cans


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 06:48:57 -0400
From: rdavis at gator.net (Dave Williams)
Subject: Post fermentation oxidation sources

George De Piro responded to my question about sherry flavors in my beer
stored at room temperature (Thanks George).  George thinks that the problem
is post fermentation oxidation and suggests some potential problems.  Jeremy
Bergsman (in a private reply, thanks Jeremy) suggested that the problem was
oxidation caused by air left in the bottle during CP filling.  I'd like to
address these likely sources and ask about some other possibilities.

<  Some likely places to look:
>     
>     1.  The connection between a solid tube and a soft tube (i.e., where   
>         your tubing meets a bottle filler or racking cane).
No, That's not it.  All connections are tight.

>     2.  Splashing of the beer into a carboy or bottle.
I'm pretty careful to avoid splashing.  I start the siphon slowly and don't
let it go full blast until the end of the hose is well covered in beer. 

>     3.  Stirring in the priming solution.
None of the affected beers were primed.  All were force carbonated.

>     4.  Excessive headspace in the bottle.
The headspace has been about 1" or so.  Just the amount that is left after
removing the C.P.filler.  Some bottles gushed between extraction of the
filler and capping, so this may not be an issue either.

>     5.  Suck-back through the airlock when cooling a carboy.
Possible.  I crash cool all of my ales either in the primary after
fermentation is complete or immediately after racking to secondary (when the
headspace is all air anyway). 

So, how much air does it take to cause a problem?  Not much apparently.  I
thought that I was taking sufficient care to avoid O2 in the beer.  There
are a couple of other possible sources of aeration that I'm wondering about. 

 First, after racking the beer (in the kitchen) I carry the secondary
downstairs to the garage where my fermentation fridges are.  Though I try to
be careful, some sloshing does occur.  In future batches I'll bubble CO2
through the beer after racking to purge the headspace.  Second, to start my
siphon, I have been filling the racking cane and hose with tap water and
then allowing the water to run into the secondary.  My water comes from a
well which uses an air space in the storage tank  to maintain pressure.  A
lot of gas goes into solution.  My hot water is kinda effervescent.  It only
recently occured to me that the dissolved O2 in the 4 oz. or so of water in
the racking cane and hose may be contributing to the problem.   I've started
siphoning the water into a glass and then putting only beer into the carboy
or keg.  

Does this sound like I've now got all of the bases covered?  How A.R. do I
have to be?  I'd like to hear from some award winning brewers on whether
they go to such extremes to prevent oxidation.  After all, the sherry flavor
defect doesn't occur in my beer when it is kept refrigerated.  The only
reason that I'm agonizing over it now is that I want to enter some
competitions and I'm concerned over  stability during travel.  Thanks.

Cheers,
Dave Williams
Newberry, Florida




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 11 Jul 98 09:53:47 PDT
From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net>
Subject: Wyeast 3068 and beer stability / oxidation / beer and infection

Hi all,

"Lord Peter" writes in about a few topics.  One is the stability of beer 
brewed with
Wyeast 3068 (Weihenstephen Wheat).  He, like others amongst us, has 
noticed that
beers brewed with this yeast lose their heading ability and body over 
time.  Peter has been
lucky; my Weizens never last 3 months without me noticing the effects of 
3068's autolysis.

Back in Feb. of this year Hubert Hangofer posted an excellent 
explanantion of this phenomenon,
which he found in a Weihenstephen technical lecture paper.  In short, 
Weizen yeasts tend to
autolyze readily.  While you may not taste this autolysis as the classic 
Vegemite manner, it
does effect the beer.  The proteolytic enzymes released by the ruptured 
yeast cells break
down proteins, reducing head and mouthfeel and clarifying the beer.

I am surprised that Peter didn't find this happaning in both halfs of his
 batch.  He does not mention
filtering out the 3068, just cold conditioning.  After 3 months of 
contact with 3068 every
Weizen I have made suffers from autolysis damage, regardless of storage 
temperature.  He is
a lucky guy!

Peter postulates that Dave Humes' problem is not wild yeast, but the 
above mentioned "3068
syndrome."  The problem with this theory is that Dave said that his beers
 are degrading in a really
short time (1-2 weeks, if I remember correctly).  Even I have better luck
 with 3068 than that!
- ----------------------------------------
Lord Pete also talks a bit about sherry-like oxidation, saying,

" Tannins are responsible for the formation of these oxidation reactions.
Use PVPP."

While oxidized tannins do contribute to haze, they aren't responsible for
 the formation of most
staling compounds.  Oxidation of alcohols, fatty acids, and isohumulones 
to aldehydes are perhaps
the most commonly noticed of the staling reactions.  Trans-2-nonenal has 
a very low flavor
threshold, and can range in flavor from papery to leathery, depending on 
its concentration.
There are other aldhydes present in stale beer, too.  See Scott Bickham's
 excellent article in
_Brewing Techniques_  Vol. 6, #2 for more details.

These reactions are typically fueled by molecular oxygen or by oxidized 
melanoidins.  In fact, I
have this memory that the tannins may actually serve to protect the 
beer's flavor stability by being
oxidized, thus preventing the oxidation of other compounds.  If you then 
remove the tannins (by using
PVPP or somesuch), the beer will have good colloidal stability (low haze)
 and good flavor stability
(assuming you don't get more O2 into the beer after removing the oxidized
 tannins).

This memory is a bit vague, though.  Somebody else feel free to chime in,
 with corrections, if need be.
- --------------------------------------
Steve Alexander says:

"Only after the sugars and several critical amino acids are depleted and 
the
alcohol level is fairly high does beer become nearly uninfectable by 
bacteria,
yeasts and molds."

Statements like this always frighten me, because it may make some believe
 that they can be lax
in their sanitation around fermented beer.  This is not true.

Yes, the fermented beer is much less hospitable to many bugs than 
unfermented wort, but it is
far from invulnerable.  Wild yeast will gladly take up resisdence inside 
your keg of bright beer,
and they'll invite their friends the Pediococci over for a party.  Things
 will get ugly at such an
event, with some guest making popcorn, forgetting about it, and burning 
up some plastic
cookware in the process (get it?  butter and phenols, sorry, sorry).

Have fun!

George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)


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Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:04:05 -0700
From: John Baxter Biggins <jbbiggin at mail.med.cornell.edu>
Subject: Alcohol 4 sterilization

>JGORMAN at steelcase.com
>
>Has anyone ever used rubbing alcohol to sterilize their brewing >equipment?

I'm pretty sure this is a thread that you can stick a fork in 'cuz it's
done, but in my research (tissue culture),sterility is paramount (comes
in handy when I want to work w/ & culture my yeast!)

To sterilize, we spray and wipe down everything w/ 70% Ethanol (EtOH). 
This is roughly the combo found in household disinfectants like Lysol. 
The high EtOH concentration is disinfecting, but more inportantly,
ethanol, an organic solvent, dissolves organic residues which can
contaminate.  Also as important, the 30% water dissolves most inorganic
salts which can also contaminate, so especially for sterilizing the
brewing equipment, 70% EtOH + flame (70% EtOH is still *very* flammable)
is the best way.  70% Rubbing alcohol (isopropanol) will also do the
trick, but EtOH is a neutral odor/flavor (and is what your yeasties are
making anyway!)  Denatured EtOH (spiked w/ methanol and other poisons to
prevent ingestion and alcohol levies) is available at most drug stores
or hardware stores...or if you know a chemist or biologist who works w/
it on a daily basis.

Just restarted brewing again & luvin' every minute of it.  

Goin' to Portland, Ore in a week.  Hope to see some of you there.

John Biggins
Cornell University Grad School of Medical Sciences
Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center
NYC


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Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 10:02:12 -0700
From: "Gregory A. Lorton" <glorton at cts.com>
Subject: Dry-hopped Bohemian Pilseners

OK, we all now know that Dave MILLER said to dry hop his pilseners in
"Continental Pilsener".  But it just so happens that Dave LINE also said to
dry hop his version of Pilsner Urquell in his book "Brewing Beers Like
Those You Buy".  But Dave Line only uses a little bit (1/4 ounce of Saaz in
4 gallons) added to his primary fermenter (and ferment for 21 days!), while
Dave Miller calls for 1 1/2 ounces of Saaz in 5 gallons.

Several years ago, I brewed a "Bohemian Pilsener", following Dave Miller's
recipe to the letter.  In a side-by-side comparison with a pretty good
bottle of Pilsner Urquell, there was not much similarity at all.  The dry
hops in my beer gave a pronounced grassy character to the beer.  (At the
same time, this was before I realized that Dave Miller's recipes seem to be
based on an extraction efficiency that is unattainable by my system.  His
recipe for a 1.049-1.050 OG left me with a 1.041 beer.)  Since then, I've
never used dry hops, and I've been more satisfied with the results.

Greg Lorton
Carlsbad, CA


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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:51:22 -0700
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Re: "Jethro Gump Report"

Who or what is Jethro Gump and why does someone name Rob Moline
post it?

js
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Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 13:29:24 -0500
From: TomL at ednet.rvc.cc.il.us (Tom Lombardo)
Subject: re: beginner seeks advice

>From: IAN FORBES <IFORBES at BCBSCT.COM>
>Subject: A beginner seeks advice
>
>I am very interested in becoming a home brewer.  In the hope of starting
>off on the right foot, I was wondering if I could get some advice
>regarding the purchasing of a starter kit and the associated required
>equipment.  I have taken a look at quite a few homebrew supply houses
>on the web, but it is hard to tell if the advice they are giving is good
>advice or if it is advice that is only meant to sell the products they are
>carrying.  Any and all advice is much appreciated.  One other question -
>I do have the opportunity to purchase a "True Brew Maestro Series kit"
>(includint the folowing equipmemt; 1) The True Brew Handbook 2)
>Primary Fermenting Bucket & Lid, 6.5 gal. 3) Bottling Bucket with Bottling
>Spigot-6.5 gal 4) Rack & Siphon Set including: a) True Brew Spring
>Bottle Filler b) 4 feet of Flex Tubing c) 24 inch Curved Cane & Racking
>Tip d) Tubing Clamp e) Tube Holder 5) Hydrometer 6) Double Lever
>Capper 7) Bottle Brush 8) 3 piece Airlock 9) C-Brite Sanitizing Cleanser
>10) Fermometer) for around $10.00 - $15.00.  Would this be a wise
>choice?

$10 - $15 for ALL that?  Is it new?  If there are no scratches in the
plastic, then go for it.  Now with a fraction of the money you saved on
the regular price of all that stuff, go buy yourself a copy of
"Homebrewing, Volume 1" by Al Korzonas.  (Read the HBD for a while and
you'll begin to recognize that name.)  Great beginners section, and enough
advanced material to keep you happy when you've got some more experience. 
No affiliation, just a happy reader.

Tom Lombardo in Rockford, IL
TomL at EdNet.rvc.cc.il.us




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Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:36:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Europe boondoggle


Hello all, I'm back from my whirlwind tour of Europe and other points
right of North America.  Had a blast, even though the U.S. World Cup
team played like crap.  Buy me a pint, and I'll tell you all about it.
Did do a fair amount of beer sampling, and thought I'd relate some
impressions.  I didn't drag along my hydrometer, and the last thing I
thought of asking the fair maiden pumping my beer was, "so... is that
dry-hopped with EKG?", so don't expect any hard data like O.G.'s,
IBU's, etc.  We just drank and partied, OK?

London (and I suppose the rest of the UK) has the most amazing pubs
I've seen.  There's literally one on every street corner, and they all
have a ton of character and local appeal.  The only back-asswards
thing is that they close at 11PM, which for a boy from Cali. who
doesn't even go out until 11PM, was somewhat of a disappointment ("Let
me get this straight.  You've got really cool pubs, with great beer,
but as soon as everyone is loosened up and having a good time, you
close them?")  The hand-pumped, cask-conditioned, served at cellar
temperatures "bitters" were also something totally unique, and equally
amazing.  There's nothing we have in the States that comes even close
to preparing you for these brews.  They are all low-moderate strength
brews, and it took at least 3 until you could feel much effect.  There
was little hop bitterness at all, despite the usual monicker "bitter",
which took some explaining to my traveling companions who were
expecting Sierra Nevada (like I said we have no comparison here).
Despite the fact that they're barely carbonated, they still exhibit a
good head.  I think much of it is due to the method of pouring.  Many
exhibited a strong taste, which I can only attribute to the yeast.  It
is a similar flavor to what we get in Boddington's here in the States,
only not as pronounced.  Not every beer had this flavor, but a decent
percentage did.  We did encounter one infected cask.  I sampled
Greenalls, Worthington Red Shield, Tetleys, Theakstons, Smyths,
Fullers Pride, Directors (Courage), Adneys, and Newcastle.  My
favorites were the Fullers, and the Directors, but really I enjoyed
them all immensely.  The Newcastle you get over there is absolutely
nothing like what we get here, unless we got some bad bottles and
kegs.  It's distinctly sour, somewhat like an Oud Bruin.

France really has some crappy beer, but that was actually a blessing
in disguise.  Being so close to Belgium, every bar had Belgian beers
on tap.  Switzerland was similar, except they at least have a good
lager brewer (Feldschloshan?).  Being a lover of Belgian ales, and
being able to sample them fresh from a tap, I was in hog-heaven.  My
mates however, weren't so happy.  I tried to get them to taste what I
was drinking, but their usual response was "that tastes like clove" or
"it's cloudy", and then they'd just shake their heads as I grinned in
response "yeah, ain't it great?".  I drank a lot of Abbaye du Leffe,
which is a blond strong Belgian ale, with the typical phenolics.
After a couple of liters of this, even Flemish starts to make sense.
Eventually, I had to switch to mainly the wit biers (pour soul, eh?)
in order to be coherent the rest of the afternoon.  In one bar, I was
served a 1/2 liter of Hoegaarden in a glass that was at least as big
as a kitchen sink.  It took two hands to raise it.  I sampled Blanche
de Maastricht, Blanche de Namur, and Erdinger Weisbier, as well as
many others whose names I didn't catch.  It got terribly confusing.
None of us spoke French, so I would just ask for the Blanche, or
Blanc, or "white", and hope they would understand me.  They always had
one variety on tap, but as we moved through Switzerland, they were
more often German wheat beers rather than Belgian wit biers.  I could
only assume that they refer to both as "whites", even though we
pedants separate them into distinct styles.

Austria seems to be solely lager drinking land.  For the most part, we
drank light lagers, although I don't think I would call them either
pilseners, or pils style.  Closer to pilsener though.  It was hot and
mid-summer, so I would imagine in the dog days of winter more
stronger, darker brews are consumed.  I remember trying Gosser from
the bottle, and Zwiekl and Stiebl on tap.  Wien also had some new
brewpubs, but they were calling them traditional biergartens.  I
ventured into Wieden Brau off Wiedner Hauptstrasse, and Salm Brau,
next to the Palace Belvedre.  It was amazing how similar they were to
American brewpubs, with the exception that they served lagers instead
of the common ales here.  Instead of a bitter or pale, stout, porter,
and seasonal brew, they had Helles, Maerzen, Dunkles, and seasonal
brew.  I tried the Helles, Maerzen, and the light summer lager, and
found all to be good.  Our friends in Wien mentioned that recently the
drunk-driving blood-alcohol limit had been lowered to 0.05%, and that
many brewers were lowering the strength of their beers because people
were drinking less.

Europe in general, is oblivious to the American microbrewery
revolution, as you'd expect.  Almost everybody still associates
American beer with Bud and Millers (one ad referred to MGD as "the
taste of urban America").  It was strange to see people paying
$6/bottle for Bud in London, while we were going crazy for the the
draft bitter.  Many wanted to brag about the strength of their beers,
and wondered how us wimpy Americans were handling them.  They were
fairly disappointed when I told them that we don't drink Bud, and in
fact have beers in America of equal strength to theirs, and of more
varieties than you can shake a stick at ("where did you learn to
pronounce Maerzen and Dunkles?  You know what a Blanche is?").  Every
country has their own version of Budmilloors though.  In England it
was Carling.  In France it was Kronenburg (well, anything really).  In
Austria it was Schwechtbier, or something like that.  In Spain it was
Cruzcampo.  Granted, these weren't as bad as Bud, but they were still
cheap, watered down, light lagers that the majority of people drank
all the time.  Bad beer taste and economies of scale aren't the sole
province of America, so don't feel so bad about our legacy of
Budmilloors.

One thing I really hope will catch on here in the States, is every
glass over there has a line to mark the volume you are buying, whether
it was 25dl, 33dl, 50dl, or 1l.  I did see people return beers that
weren't filled to above this line.  Here in America, people are paying
a premium for "pints" that are actually only 13 oz. (steal a pint
glass from your local pub and try it for yourself).  I don't know how
we can get this practice started, but I wouldn't be adverse to even
seeing a law enacted.  I would also like to see the smaller 25dl
(about 8 oz.) size catch on here.  It's nice to have a small beer with
lunch, or in the afternoon, or whenever really, without getting too
hammered.  I doubt it would be popular with the macho, American
power-drinking crowd though.

Anyway, it really sucks to be back, but it's good to see that the HBD
hasn't changed a bit.  I'd also like to thank Jeff Kenton's wife for
not allowing her husband to keep that ugly, old stir-plate.  I can
only hope that Jeff brings home a beat-up cylindroconical fermenter
next.

SM




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Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 20:06:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: pumpkin brew

Someone wrote (sorry, I've been catching up on back digests on the
web, so I don't have my usual email stuff) that pumpkin will add
basically no fermentables and no flavor to a pumpkin brew.  I don't
think this is accurate.  Pumpkin should add between 10 and 20
points/lb/gallon, depending on the source.  It will also add a very
nice color and flavor contribution.  I think there could be two
reasons for the variable results with pumpkins.  First, many folks use
actual pumpkins, which will vary quite a bit in terms of flavor,
starch content, etc.  Second, most don't use nearly enough pumpkin; a
few lbs. of pumpkin in 5 gal. of beer ain't going to do diddly, except
give you a little orange tinge.

Like many, last year I said I wouldn't do a pumpkin brew again, but
now I'm once again considering it.  What I do is use the canned
pumpkin (actually it's acorn squash I believe) they sell for pumpkin
pies.  I use about 2-1/2 to 3 lbs. of pumpkin for each gallon of beer,
and your basic 6-row, although I think 2-row would be fine.  Yes, this
will not sparge worth a damn, so you better have rice hulls and some
way to cut your pumpkin bed.  I also let the mash sit at the
sacc. temperature for about 90 min. in order to convert all the
pumpkin starch (it's basically a big potato).  I'm always amazed how
well it does taste before I spice it.  In fact, if I do make it again
this year I may not spice it at all.

SM


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Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 00:30:19 -0700
From: Michael Rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net>
Subject: CO2 in solution

There has been several posts recently about CO2 not staying in solution
in beer. I don't have an answer. But on a related subject; I recently
tried a sports drink called *All Sports.* Its like Gatorade. The texture
of the bubbles (CO2) is different than any other carbonated product that
I've drank. Does anybody else sense this texture difference?
 
      Michael Rose   Riverside, CA    mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net


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Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 07:57:30 -0400
From: Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net>
Subject: Going to UK, any don't miss places or unique brews I must

I am heading off to England for a week, and am wondering if there are
any don't miss pubs, breweries, etc. that I should spend an afternoon
at.

I am planning on spending 3 days in the Lake District (Lancaster), 2
days in Edinburgh (within walking distance of Prince street) and 2
days in London (off Belgravia road in the Victoria section of London),
so any suggestions for great places in any of those areas would be
appreciated.

I'm also looking for suggestions for beers that I should bring back
home with me. Does any UK brewery still make a "true" IPA, or is the
style only an American one now?


TIA,
Dan Cole
dcole at roanoke.infi.net



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Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:21:38 -0400
From: "Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net>
Subject: Short Lag Times

Hello All,

Just wanted to report some data points on my recent experiences with a
number of different yeast strains. I have alot of information I have
gathered on different properties of yeast strains (from the same lab)that
display the same characteristics and similar taste profiles, but that will
be the subject of a future post once I have more info.

For now, I want to report a recent discovery regarding lag times. In the
past, my lag times would be what most would consider normal, usually in the
8-12 hour range. The routine I use for propagating yeast starters is pretty
much always the same regardless of whether I begin with a new package from
the lab or from one of my farm slants (of which I am proud to say has grown
to over 30 individual strains!). I almost always step up my starters in
250/500/1000/2000 ml increments. Most of the time I will match the SG of the
starter wort to close to the SG of the beer I intend to brew. I use extra
light DME with a few whole hops thrown in for good measure. The only thing I
do that deviates from what I consider the norm is that I do not use an
airlock that restricts the flow of air to the starter. What I do is either
place aluminum foil over the top with a rubber band, or use a triple ripple
airlock with a piece of alcohol soaked cotton jammed in the top. Well, on to
my point........
I made up a starter the other day using Wyeast #1272 American Ale II from a
new package using the above procedure as normal. Built it up to 1500 ml over
a three day period. At pitching time I would normally aerate the wort for at
least a half hour, but this time I did not because I broke my last aerating
stone. So instead I poured the starter into the carboy and splashed the 80F
wort into it pouring it through a sanitized nylon screen. Got a pretty good
amount of foam of course and had to stop pouring a few times to let it
settle. Well, after that was done, I left it sit and came back 2 hours later
and the foam was gone but guess what was there, a nice 1-2 inch bubbling,
rising ever so slowly head of krausen. (Yes, krausen, I know the difference
between it and foam). I never have experienced such a short lag time since I
started brewing, even in my early days with rehydrated dry yeast! Especially
considering that I did not aerate the wort or starter. Hmmmm.....

I can't explain this at all but wonder maybe if certain strains of yeast
have less inherent lag times than others? Or maybe this was just a fluke and
I finally hit it just right regardless of my "other than normal for me"
procedures.  Anyway, the beer is happily fermenting along in the primary and
I am looking forward to the finished product to see what Wyeast #1272 is all
about. This particular recipe is an IPA using exactly the same recipe as my
"Matecumbe India Pale Ale" that I posted a few months back boasting it as a
Liberty Ale clone. The difference of course being the yeast strain. It is
supposed to be similar in characteristics to Yeastlab A07 & Brewtek CL260.

The Brewtek strains will be the subject of my next post trying to find out
why three of their strains all display this particular flavor profile that
resembles some type of wood (not oak). My friend dubbed a recent California
Common that I made as "Redwood Common". More to come on that one.

Regards,

Marc

=======================
Captain Marc Battreall
Backcountry Brewhouse
Islamorada, Florida
batman at terranova.net
captainbrew at hotmail.com



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---