---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Solder & Wort (bob_poirier)
  Additional Kunze comments / Oops! ("George De Piro")
  Re: Malt analysis and cloudy beer from munich malt/Kunze Komments (Steve Jackson)
  Whirlpool question ("Spies, James")
  RE: Virtual Homebrew Club ("Houseman, David L")
  Homebrew Festivals (Dan Sullivan)
  mashing and coolers ("Czerpak, Pete")
  You can use copper (John Palmer)
  homebrew competitions (Vachom)
  re: Secodary fermentation: Is it really needed for a Stout? (Mark Tumarkin)
  Re: Lead (John Wilkinson)
  Re: Infected Beer! How do I save some of it? (Tim Anderson)
  reply to: Fermentap Contraption, HBD#2842 (Herbert Bresler)
  Cincy Brewpubs (Jason Hartzler)
  Brewing clip art (Doug Moyer)
  kolsch (Randy Ricchi)
  storing hops/film on beer/starter questions (Al Korzonas)
  fresh hop usage; Safale yeast (Randy Ricchi)
  Back from Lost Wages ("Pat Babcock")
  Back from GABF (Mark Tumarkin)
  Clinitest Truce Declared (Louis Bonham)


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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 07:54:04 -0500
From: bob_poirier at adc.com
Subject: Solder & Wort

        Greetings!
     
        I'm building a copper manifold for my mash/lauter tun AND my 
     boiling kettle.  I plan on sweating all the copper pipe and fittings 
     together using LEAD FREE solder.  Considering the environment the 
     manifolds will be subjected to (low pH of the mash & wort [compared to 
     my tap water]), is there any chance of potentially harmful substances 
     being leached out of the solder during the mash and boil??
     
        TIA!
     
        Brew On & Prosit!!
     
        Bob P.
        East Haven, CT



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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998  8:42 -0800
From: "George De Piro" <George_De_Piro at berlex.com>
Subject: Additional Kunze comments / Oops!

     Hi all,
     
     Steve A. wrote a very thorough review of the Kunze work, _Technology 
     Malting and Brewing_.  I would like to add a point or two.  Steve 
     pointed out that the index is inadequate because it usually does not 
     list every page on which the search word is found.  I'll take his 
     comment a step further and complain that often you cannot find common 
     terms in the index at all!  Want to know something about dextrins?  
     Look in the index...damn!  Not listed!  How about melanoidins?  Again, 
     no luck.  There are countless other examples.  These things are 
     actually discussed in the text but seem to have avoided listing in the 
     index.
     
     My next comment is a positive one:  the sections on malting are very 
     thorough, and there is even a little bit on home malting near the back 
     of the book.  I really appreciate the sections on homebrewing and 
     malting, however brief.  Certain other brewing luminaries have been 
     heard to say disparaging things about homebrew (and even micro brew), 
     so to at least get favorable mention from a noted professor is quite 
     nice.
     
     There is one point on which I have to question Steve, though:  $200?!  
     I paid $138 at Siebel, and heard that I could have saved $10 at 
     Amazon.com.  Has the price jumped that much in 8 months?
     ----------------------------
     Dave S. points out that I mistakenly wrote "11% total N" instead of 
     "11% total protein."  Damn it, Dave, I'm a chemist, not a, uh, 
     um...sh*t, I guess I should have caught that!  A barley with 68.75% 
     total protein might find a market niche with weightlifters and other 
     athletes, though.
     
     While I appreciate being called a "bastion of solid information" I do 
     indeed make plenty of errors.  I just do reasonably well at keeping 
     them off the air!
     
     Have fun!
     
     George de Piro  (Nyack, NY)


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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:21:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Malt analysis and cloudy beer from munich malt/Kunze Komments

In HBD #2842 (Oct. 6, 1998), Steve Alexander wrote:

>>>>
Steve - be careful when pulling the blankets off such blanket
statements.
Kunze 2.9.1 states "Dark Malt(Munich type) - To produce dark malt all
the
conditions which lead to the formation of aroma-producing Maillard
products
(melanoidins) are favoured.  These include  at  processing barley with a
higher
protein content, [...]".

Although having a high protein content isn't equatable to low quality,
it does
speak to Silent Bob's point.
<<<<

When I made my original comment about blanket statements re: Munich
malt, I was referring to Silent Bob's point that specialty malts often
were made from six-row barley. My point was that while some North
American maltsters may indeed make Munich malt from six-row, European
maltsters generally did not. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Because of the action of amino acids in forming melanoidins, I
understand that starting with high-protein barley for making Munich
malt is generally beneficial. I don't fully understand how this
affects the "end result" in terms of the protein content of the malt
that is shipped to the consumer. The topic is something I certainly
wouldn't mind learning more about.

I'm assuming that enough of the protein is "consumed" during the
process of making Munich malt that the protein content is either
sufficiently reduced or converted to MMW and LMW proteins by the time
the malt is in the consumer's hands that a protein rest is generally
not necessary. As I mentioned in my original post, that has certainly
been my experience with Durst's Munich malt. Whether that holds for
Munich malts from other Continental maltsters, I don't know.

 -Steve in Indianapolis 
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:22:36 -0400
From: "Spies, James" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us>
Subject: Whirlpool question

All -

I'm in the process of converting a keg to a boil kettle, and had a
question about trub removal.

I know that many people build circular manifolds around the outer edge
of the keg, whirlpool briefly by stirring, and then siphon from the
edge.  Others use a scrubbie-type thingy to strain the wort (though with
hop pellets the utility of this method is debatable).  I was thinking
along another line -- trub *removal*.

Assuming one has a fixed center siphon positioned about 1/8" - 1/4" from
the bottom of the keg center, and assuming that one uses hop pellets,
couldn't an extended whirlpool using a stirring device ala C.D.
Pritchard's neato stirrer (http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/boiler.htm) be
used to get a nice compact cone of trub-y crud which could then be
sucked out through the siphon like a double-wide in a tornado?  The
concave bottom of the keg would even seem to enhance cone formation.

You would theoretically lose minimal wort this way, and the stirrer
could be immersed along with the chiller to sanitize it (an immersion
chiller instead of a c-flow chiller would be best for this type of
setup, because it would get some of the cold break as well).  By
motorizing the stirrer, and covering the pot while whirlpooling (routing
the stirrer through the lid), you could have as long of a whirlpool as
you like, and get a great little compact cone.  I know my hand-stirred
whirlpools never last more than a few minutes, even when I whip the hell
out of them.  If you could really speed it up, some aeration of the
cooled wort would take place as well . . .

Anyone have any comments on this system, or is anyone using something
like this who could comment on its effectiveness??

TIA,

Jay Spies
Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery
Baltimore, MD


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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:01:25 -0400 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: RE: Virtual Homebrew Club

Gail Elber asks about Virtual homebrew clubs?  So how about HBD, where
you sent your post?  Seems to me that this has all the comraderie,
sharing, knowledge, fun, personalities, infighting and cliques of a
club.  Just send your $10 dues to ...

Dave Houseman



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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 08:29:43 -0700
From: Dan Sullivan <brewlawz at napanet.net>
Subject: Homebrew Festivals

In HBD #2842, Brandon Brown asked:

> I was wondering if anyone has been to a homebrew festival, 
> what is the atmosphere like, etc?

Uh, from what I can remember, Saturday was like a backyard bar-b-que
with 300 of my closest friends.  Blue sky, mid 80s.

26 clubs, about 700 gallons of homebrew, 3 bands, speakers were Fritz
Maytag, Russ Wigglesworth, Martin Lodahl and Byron Burch.  Closed to the
general public, no commercial beers.

Very civilized, but then beer has for centuries been the cornerstone of
civilization.  It was way civilized, yes.

Cheers!

Dan


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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:00:25 -0400 
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: mashing and coolers

Are there any suggestions as to mail order companies (phone or web
addresses are good) that sell cylindrical style picnic coolers for
mashing??  I would prefer the round variety to minimize cooling effects
for better temp control.  Any comments on extraction comparisons between
cylindrical and rectangular type coolers are also welcome.  I hope to be
brewing all grain soon and have yet to decide which to use and find a
supplier of the cylindrical type. 

Pete Czerpak
pete.czerpak at siigroup.com


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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:21:54 -0700
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: You can use copper

Jim writes:
I am modifying a 1/2 barrel into a brewing vessel and everything I've
read calls for stainless fittings, etc.  Please tell me I can use
copper.

Yes, you can use copper.  You will want to rinse it thoroughly after use
and you should make your fittings able to be disassembled, but you will
not suffer any significant galvanic corrosion problems and any copper
that does dissolve will be scrubbed out by the yeast during
fermentation.  Do not use caustic or bleach based cleaners with copper.

John Palmer
metallurgist
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/



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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:41:02 -0500
From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us>
Subject: homebrew competitions

Brandon:

	I encourage you to attend a homebrew festival/competition in your great
city.  As I'm sure you know, there is a lively, tradition-steeped
brewing community in Chicago.  I think you'll find a homebrew festival
quite a bit different from your description of the GABF (never been
myself) but not without some of the elements you didn't particularly
enjoy in Denver.  
	First, at a homebrew festival, you'll find that almost everyone present
is invested (with varying degrees of experience) in brewing.  I strongly
encourage you to serve as an apprentice judge or steward at a festival. 
You can learn a lot about beer styles and brewing techniques by serving
in one of these capacities where the conversation is necessarily about
brewing.
	Homebrew festivals are also an excellent place to meet people from many
walks of life.  My wife and I are both independent school
administrators; we could easily spend all of our time teaching,
coaching, meeting with parents, attending school events, and all with
pretty much the same kind of people.  Yet we, like you, live in a city,
New Orleans, with an extraordinary variety of people, cultures,
traditions.  I've found homebrewing and homebrewing festivals to be an
excellent common ground for meeting people from all kinds of backgrounds
and for broadening my appreciation of the city (and other cities, for
that matter) and its people--from investment bankers to cabbies to
teachers to dilettantes.  
	You will, however, find one of the same elements that you didn't find
particularly charming at the GABF.  That is, some people at homebrew
festivals drink a lot, in an all-day kind of way.  Obscene, profane
behavior is universally frowned upon, but I've been to festivals where
things got a little, shall we say, boisterous in a jolly kind of way. 
If that's not your bag, you might want to go to the festival in the
early part of the day.  Most festival organizers ask for an entrance
fee, either to get in the door or to enter a beer for competition.  Once
inside the event, however, festival goers are typically presented with a
kind of beer Nirvana.  Organizers often get the local micros to provide
free kegs of beer which flow non-stop and get local restaurateurs to
provide free or dirt cheap food.  There are also often lots of homebrews
available for tasting.  All of this beer is hard to resist, and some
people don't or don't intend to.
	One of the best things about the local homebrew festival here it that
it's held not in a sterile hotel conference facility but in the
Deutsches Haus, a venerable old building on the outside, so gruesomely
re-appointed with faux wood paneling and linoleum on the inside that I
find myself immediately (and fondly) transported back to the VFW halls
of my Michigan youth.  This place also boasts an extraordinary and
dangerous array of German beers on tap.  I couldn't resist a draught
Optimator or two at last year's festival.  Beers at the regular
Deutsches Haus taps went for a nominal few bucks; outside in the patio,
a local micro (Acadian Brewing) that brews excellent German lagers was
pouring an unlimited torrent of their helles bock--free.  Luckily, I had
only come for the awards.  These were definitely NOT all-day drinking
kinds of beers nor were they resistable. 
	I enjoy going to homebrew festivals.  I don't choose to go all day--my
schedule doesn't permit it nor do I trust myself around so much good
beer--but they're fun and potentially very educational; check one out.

Happy brewing,

Mike 
New Orleans, LA



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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 12:54:11 -0400
From: Mark Tumarkin <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Secodary fermentation: Is it really needed for a Stout?

Darrell wrote :  "I have been experimenting, as of late, with
peat-smoked grain, and
presently have a Smoked Stout (more dry than sweet, I hope) in the
primary.
 And, I was wondering if , once I make sure all of the yeasties have
stopped their good work (without which, we'd be very sad) can I not just

bottle?  I suppose I'll get more stuff on the bottom of the
bottles,..and I
suppose that I can under do the amount of corn sugar, just is case ....
Any thoughts?"

Yes, you can bottle directly from the primary. After, of course, being
sure that your fermentation is complete. (ha! I'll bet at least some of
you thought I would insert a reference here to methods for determing
fermentation completion - uh, uh, I ain't gonna go there). Racking into
a second vessel for additional fermentation will leave a lot of the trub
behind and also help clarify the beer as additional time passes. But it
is not necessary. If you are careful racking the beer into your bottling
bucket, you shouldn't end up with any trub in your bottles. Just keep
the end of the tube enough above the cake of  trub so that it isn't
picked up. If you use clear tubing you can see it get cloudy when you
get too close to the bottom. Stop racking when it gets too low, you will
leave a small amount of beer behind, but very little. The residue in
your bottles should  be yeast only, with little, or hopefully no, trub
or break material.

If you are sure fermentation has stopped you won't need to lower the
amount of priming sugar. Just exactly how much to use in the first place
is another issue, but 3/4 of a cup is a standard amount if you don't
want to calculate the exact amount necessary for a certain CO2 level
needed for a particular style.

Good luck with the Smoked Stout, sounds yummy.

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL



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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 98 12:19:26 CDT
From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Re: Lead

Tim Green wrote:

>Just because lead shot has been used for hunting for many years, as one
>person has pointed out, does NOT make it safe.

I pointed out the hunting connection and did not mean to imply that lead
was not toxic.  My point was that a few pellets were unlikely to add enough
lead to worry about.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com


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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:39:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tim Anderson <timator at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Infected Beer! How do I save some of it?

Kenneth Sullivan said this here stuff:

> Subject: Infected Beer! How do I save some of it?
> 
[deletia]
> I brewed St. Pats brown ale extract kit and made the mistake of
trying to add 
> some water to the secondary.  THe water must have sucked some
nasties in with 
> it and now I have about 3 colonies of 'mold' growing on the surface
:-(
> 
> Does anybody out know if I can siphon out from underneath the
surface and
> salvage a large portion of the beer?   Should I assume that the
infection is 
> throughout the beer and must be tossed?
> 
> The beer had fermented out when I added the water,  now the colonies
are 
> really funky looking and gaining mass, but just on the surface.
> The large colony is about the size of a dime.
> 
> I added water to a different batch and it's just happy, no infection.
[more deletia]

First, be sure it's really an infection.  If it's an "old penny" brown
kind of color and not too thick and not hairy, it's probably yeast. 
This would be a good thing.

I've added water, as you described, without problem.  But I've also
had a couple of infections over the years.  There weren't any
floaties, just ovecarbonation and a truly horrible, nasty taste and
smell.  Now if I need to top up, I boil and chill first.

tim

==
Please ignore the advertisement below.  Thank you.

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:42:31 -0400
From: Herbert Bresler <bresler.7 at osu.edu>
Subject: reply to: Fermentap Contraption, HBD#2842

CHUCK MORFORD asked about opinions and experience with the "Fermentap
Contraption"
>I was wondering if any of you are using the "Fermentap" valve and stand,
 >and what are your general opinions?

Chuck,

I tried to use the Fermentap a few times, but found it more trouble than it
was worth.  I always ferment in glass, and I thought the concept was a good
one -- invert the carboy in a stable stand and use it like a conical
fermenter.  Harvest yeast.  Get rid of trub.  Transfer with gravity instead
of having to syphon.  Sounded great, so I tried it.  Spent roughly $30 for
it and the stand and plastic syphon tube required.  I thought it did not
work very well.

The main trouble is that the neck of a carboy is not steep enough to make
trub and yeast removal really work.  Another problem is that the CO2 outlet
is way up inside the carboy and not accessible for cleaning.  Even though
the little plastic filter thingy was in place, I have had the CO2 outlet
become clogged with debris from the krausen.  If my regular air lock
becomes clogged or contaminated with krausen gunk, I just pull it off and
put on a clean one -- very easy.  I also found the valve assembly difficult
to keep clean and difficult to access (under the carboy inside the
ring-stand).  The manufacturer also says that you can use the bend in the
plastic tube as an airlock, but active fermentation blows the liquid out in
a matter of a few minutes.  This means that you must connect a piece of
tubing to the outlet and put the end in a bowl of water for an air lock.
I also did not like manipulating (inverting) a carboy full of wort with the
Fermentap on top; it's more that just a little unwieldy.

This is not to say that it is impossible to work with.  With perseverance
you could probably get it to work (and even harvest CO2 for purging air
from your secondary).  I know of one home brewer who loves the Fermentap.
For me, the whole contraption is just too complicated and too cumbersome,
and IMO it doesn't work all that well.  YMMV.

I'm back to good old air lock (or blow-off tube when needed).  I get my CO2
for purging from a CO2 bottle and regulator.  I have no trouble syphoning
brew.  All these things are simple and familiar.  The Fermentap was not
simple or familiar, and I found it was taking away some of my enjoyment
that I get from home brewing.

I do like the carboy ring-stand, though, it makes a great carboy drying
stand.

Good luck and good fermenting,
Herb




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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:16:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Hartzler <jehartzl at mail.ilstu.edu>
Subject: Cincy Brewpubs

Anyone with any recommendations for Brewpubs, Microbreweries, Microbeer bars
in Cincinnati.  I had asked before, and made it to BrewWorks last year,
which was a fine establishment.  But much to my dismay, they have closed
(someone told me the building is being turned into a Chuck E Cheese of all
things).  Please email privately.  Thanks,
jeh



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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 18:03:21 -0500
From: Doug Moyer <shyzaboy at geocities.com>
Subject: Brewing clip art

Folks,
	I am trying to make up business cards and flyers for our local homebrew
club, and accordingly need a logo. Does anyone have any good sources on
the web for quality clip art related to brewing? (Glasses of beer, hops,
barley, etc.) I would prefer some bold black and white images or line
drawings.
	FWIW, I promise not to use the clip art in any commercial fashion....
- -- 

Brew on,
Doug Moyer

Star City Brewers Guild:
	web:	http://hbd.org/starcity
	list:	mailto:starcity-list at hbd.org

Pix of baby Keira Moyer (and my brewing setup):
	web:	http://www.rev.net/~kmoyer


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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 19:10:59 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: kolsch

There's been a lot of discussion about altbiers lately, but what I'd like
to know is what is the preferred fermentation temperature for kolsch?  I'm
thinking 68 - 70 F, but now I wonder if kolsch yeast is like alt yeast,
which is able to tolerate much cooler ferm temps. Anyone?



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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:14:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: storing hops/film on beer/starter questions

Since there appears to be a little lull in the HBD, I'll take this
opportunity to catch up on a number of topics that I've been storing
away, waiting for others to answer.

Bill writes:
>        I know of an area near where I live that has many wild hops
>growing, and it looks like they need to be harvested. I used some last
>year and was reasonably happy with the bittering/taste/aroma. Since little
>of my brewing is judged by professionals, I have plans to brew many
>batches of beer with these hops.
>        The problem is how to store them so they can last up to a year.
>The best solution, in a general sense, would be to harvest, and then
>compress the hops into "chunks" of maybe 1-3 oz's, and seal them in
>freezer bags.
>        So, how can I compress these hops? And, what is the best way to
>seal them up?
(snip)

Freezer bags are nothing more than High-density Polyethylene (HDPE) and
storing hops in them is not much better than a paper bag (okay, a lot
better, but still far from good).  If you can smell the hops through
the bag, air is getting in and aromatics are getting out.

Freshops in Philomath, OR (they have ads in all the HB magazines) will
sell you oxygen-barrier bags, but you will need a heat-sealer to seal
them.  I've got a cheap vaccum sealer from an appliance store, but
for even less money ($20), Walgreens will sell you a "Eurosealer" which
will work (although sometimes it requires you to go pretty slow).

Alternately, you can simply use a glass jar with a gasketted lid (like
a Mason Jar, for example).  Personally, I purge the oxygen out of the
bags with CO2 before sealing.  Any air you trap inside the bag will
eventually degrade the hops (although far less than using an HDPE bag).

One HBD poster (years ago, suggested making plugs out of whole hops
by using a plastic pipe and (I believe) a wooden plunger.  You might
consider that in addition to the oxygen-barrier bags or glass jar.

***
Joe writes:
>To: Peter Perez
>     The thin film on your porter is a contaminant, the
>dreaded Acetic Acid Bacteria,"Acetobacter".  It's the same
>stuff that turns wine into wine vinegar.  Your beer will
>slowly get sour.  If you ever wanted to make Kosher Dill
>Pickles, you need that bacteria to get it to sour.

Not necessarily.  Many benign yeasts and some mildly unpleasant
moulds will also look like this so.  If the beer is getting
sour, then Joe is probably right and I think the beer is
probably a loss.  However, those benign yeasts will do nothing
other than give you an unsightly ring-around-the-collar in
the bottle.  Most don't change the flavour/aroma of the beer
noticeably.

***

David writes:
>Question  the first
>If wort for a starter that has been aerated by vigorous shaking is
>then sealed in bottle and sterilised in autoclave, pressure cooker or
>canner is the effective aeration affected by the process?
>I suspect not, because the oxygen has no where to go unless some of
>the components of the wort are oxidised in the heating process.?

You are right... it wouldn't.  In an open boil, the oxygen "boils"
off because as the water warms, it will hold very little dissolved
oxygen.  If you boil it under pressure, I believe that quite a bit
of that oxygen will stay in solution and oxidise the wort (bad).
Then again, when you sterilise wort in a pressure cooker, you don't
seal the containers until they are partly cooled down.  Otherwise,
the containers (which are made to hole a partial vaccum, not pressure)
will burst.

>Question the second
>Where in a starter at high krausen are the majority of the yeast that
>we desire for pitching?
>In the foam?
>In the liquor ?
>In the sediment?
>in other words should one carefully decant off the supernatant and
>then just pitch the sediment/cake or should one give the lot a good
>swirl and pitch everything?

At high kraeusen, some of the yeast will be in each of the three.
A highly-flocculent, true "top-fermenting" ale yeast will have more
of the yeast in the foam and less in the liquor (liquid) and sediment
(most of the sediment will be dormant or dead yeast).  With a lager
yeast, most of the live yeast will be split between the liquor and
sediment.

When the yeast starter is at high kraeusen, generally I would recommend
swirling and pitching the whole lot.  To get the benefits of a BIG
starter without adding a lot of spent wort to my beer, I often make up
a big starter (like two or four liters), let that ferment out so all
the yeast settles, pour off the spent wort the day before brewing and
add 500ml of fresh wort to get the yeast into top condition for brewing
day.  This way, I have the equivalent of 2 or 4 liters of yeast, but
only throw in 500ml of partially-spent wort.  Mind you, you can't let
yeast sit around like this (fermented out) for a long time.  I try to
time it so that the yeast just settle shortly before brewing, so they
sit idle for no more than a day.  This gives the fastest starts and
the most healthy ferments (fewest unwanted byproducts like acetaldehyde,
diacetyl, sulphur compounds, etc.).

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/


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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 19:21:50 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: fresh hop usage; Safale yeast

After reading about Safale yeast a few weeks ago, I thought I'd try it out.
Although I almost always use pure liquid yeast cultures, I'm always on the
lookout for good quality dry yeast for those times when I just don't feel
up to building starter cultures.

I was also intrigued about using hops fresh from the vine, without drying
them first. I decided to brew my "Fallfest Harvest Ale" using fresh hops
for flavor and aroma (20 min & 10 min additions) and pitching with Safale
yeast.

I made two batches, both six gallons, both 1.064 OG, 41 IBU's ( I used
German Northern Brewer for bittering).  One batch I used 4 oz by wt. of
fresh picked Cascade at each of the two late additions. The other batch I
used the same amounts, but of Tettnang.

The hop character is quite a bit like Michael Jackson described it in his
web site article about the English brewery that does the same thing. Fresh,
lively, sort of a citrus tang. Very nice, not harsh at all like I feared.

The Safale yeast was a really nice surprise, too. I'd say it has the same
flavor characteristics as Wyeast 1056, although it's not as attenuative. My
beers both ended up at 1.018, and I mashed at 150 F dropping to 146 over a
90 minute period. Y1056 would have taken that wort down to 1.014 or 5, in
my experience. The Safale fermented really fast at 65 deg F, after a not
too quick lag time, and then dropped quite bright in a few days.

I'll definitely use it again for american pale ales. 



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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:28:11 -0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Back from Lost Wages

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Well, Kim and I are back from our vacation in Las Vegas. We had a 
blast! We were told of a few brew pubs by the Northwest agent on our 
way out of the state. Too bad! We only knew of one: The Holy Cow. Let 
me tell you about THAT experience...

Saturday, 10/3, Kim and I decided to walk from the Imperial Palace
down to the HC for a bite of lunch and to sample their brews. We
arrived  at about 12:40, and were greeted by a "waiter" within a
reasonable amount of time. 

"Smoking or non?"  he asked.
"Non, please"
"Sorry: we have no nonsmoking tables available. Perhaps you'd like to 
sit near the bar?"
"Sure! That'd be fine."

Kim and I sat there for 15 minutes waiting for a menu. The bar is
outside of the dining area of the pub. Apparently, being off their
turf put us out of their mind, too. Finally, we went back to the
entrance to the pub area to accept a smoking table. It didn't appear
that anyone was smoking in the restaurant area, and we figured we'd
be safe. There was a table for four and three or four small tables
(for two) open in the pub proper. 

"Can I help you?"
"We decided to take a smoking table after all."
"I'm sorry, we have nothing available.
"WHAT?!? There's an open table right there!"
"But what if a group of four come in? Where will I seat _them_?"

Regardless that there were still the two-seat tables remaining, I was 
aghast: "Fine. We'll take our money elsewhere."

Good beer or not, Kim and I left never to return. Ever. I doubt that
the beer - no matter how good it might be - could possibly get the
foul aftertaste of this "service" out of my mouth...



See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan          pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor            janitor@hbd.org
AOL FDN Beer & Brewing Maven        BrewBeerd at aol.com


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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 21:05:02 -0400
From: Mark Tumarkin <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Back from GABF

I got back yesterday from the trip to Denver for the GABF, and even
after all that quality beer time, one of the first things I did was to
go online and get the HBD. It was great to have a bunch of them waiting
to go through. Much better than those few times, like that day last
month, when there were problems and No Digest. Are we addicted, or what?
Thanks to you all for the HBD, especially The Janitors.

And thanks to Brian Rezac for his hospitality at the GABF. I know some
of you have bad feelings towards the AHA, but Paul, Brian, and the rest
of the folks at the AHA sure did a great job with the GABF. It was a
great place to share phenomenal beers with friends, I enjoyed meeting
some of you for the first time, and renewing acquaintance with others of
you.

The beer was incredible. Too many to sample all of them but I gave it my
best shot. It's amazing how some beers stand head and shoulders above
the rest, even with palate fatigue. Just a few of my favorites - Bell's
Two Hearted Ale from Kalamazoo Brewing, nobody asked me but it was my
personal choice for BOS, even though it only took a Silver for IPA.
Centennial flavor that just didn't quit, over a deep malty base.
Hearthside Wheatwine from Steelhead Brewing  - took Gold for Other
Strong Ales. Truly outstanding, not even out done by Bearded Pat's, the
Gold for Barleywines (and itself a great brew).. The Liberty Ale was as
fresh and crisp as I have ever had it, and Sierra Nevada's Harvest Ale
made with lots of fresh, undried Cascades. Interestingly, it had very
little grapefruit character. I'm not usually a fan of fruit beers, but
there were some spectaculr ones - New Glaurus' Raspberry Tart, Thunder
Canyon's Gold winning Bees 'n Berry, and Luna de Miel (actually a
raspberry meade from Bluegrass Brewing - it was entered as a fruit beer
but disqualified). I better stop now, or I'll just keep going, I haven't
even mentioned the great porters, the malty stouts.  The GABF was a
chance to celebrate some of the truly inspired (and inspiring) brewers
out there.

And another high point for a Florida boy was driving up to the Rocky
Mtns National Park and hiking among the turning Aspens and having a
lightly falling snow frost everything white. Spectacular!

So many beers, so little time.

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL







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Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 21:30:10 -0500
From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net>
Subject: Clinitest Truce Declared

Hi folks:

For all of you who have wanted to see a cease-fire in the never-ending HBD
Clinitest jihad, your wish is granted.

I am please to announce that Dave Burley and Al Korzonas have agreed to a truce
in their often-animated HBD discussions on Clinitest.  Under the terms of the
cease-fire, which was brokered by the HBD Steering Committee, I am working with
both of them to come up with an agreed testing methodology, and then I will be
doing the testing independently of them and writing the results up for my BT
column.  (If there are any of you who wish to run the tests in parallel with me
so that we have additional data points, please drop me a line.)

My price of admission for doing this, however, is that both Dave and Al agree to
cease posting on this subject in the HBD until the experiment is completed and
the results are released.  Further, each of them have given the HBD Janitor the
plenary authority to cancel posts from either of them that violate the cease
fire.

The Steering Committee has been concerned that the level of acrimony
accompanying this debate had reached counterproductive levels, but as we have
stated repeatedly we do not want to censor any beer-related posts and will
resort to censorship as a very last resort.  In this case, our arrangement will
hopefully resolve the issue productively while returning the HBD to a somewhat
more relaxed (and collegial) tone.

Louis K. Bonham
lkbonham at phoenix.net
Member, HBD Steering Committee



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