---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re:  Drilled Stoppers (bob_poirier)
  Re:  Solder & Wort (bob_poirier)
  Re: Poldar Thermoprobes/Timers (Jeff Renner)
  Rauch and Rubber (Dan Listermann)
  Acidifying Iodophor, for poor folks ("Marc Fries")
  sour mash conversion ("silent bob")
  3 tier brew tree (Jim Hunter)
  "Diluted mash" question (Doug Moyer)
  reply to: Drilling a rubber stopper, HBD#2845 (Herbert Bresler)
  Some Data (Jim Liddil)
  pH (Danny Breidenbach)
  source for CO2 cylinders (Scott Murman)
  Re: Protein rest two-cents ("Steve Alexander")
  RE: New-brewer questions (Matt Comstock)
  Re: Clinitest Brew Ha Ha ("John A. MacLaughlin")
  sour mash-boont amber (tonja and kevin eichelberger)
  Polder thermometer fix. (Ian Smith)
  RIMS turbulence & trapped air (AKGOURMET)
  Gluten Free "Beer" ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  BIG glass "carboys" (Biggiebigg)
  KROC World Brewers Forum (BrewsTraveler)
  GABF: Trip Report (BrewsTraveler)
  Brewers Olympics (BrewsTraveler)
  valve stems (John_E_Schnupp)
  Pewter... ("Pat Babcock")
  Pewter, ("David R. Burley")
  Changes in AHA Board of Advisors (David Houseman)
  Bottle Fermentation (Keith Busby)
  240V GFI ("Doug Otto")
  Re: Polder Thermoprobes/Timers (Duff Hickman)
  home made carbonators ("Tom & Dee McConnell")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 10:25:03 -0500
From: bob_poirier at adc.com
Subject: Re:  Drilled Stoppers

     Greetings!!
     
     Mark Bayer asks about drilling rubber stoppers, and John Schnupp 
     responds that using a piece of tubing with a sharp end will do the 
     trick, and he is correct!
     
     I got the idea from the book "Brew Ware" (sorry, I don't have it in 
     front of me, and I can't remember who wrote it, or who published it).  
     I took a piece of 3/8" OD copper pipe and cut one end at an angle of 
     about 45 degrees.  Then I used a grinding wheel (or a metal file would 
     work too, I guess) and ground the cut end of the pipe so that there 
     was a sharp , tapered edge running around the inside diameter of the 
     pipe (does that make sense??).  The I drilled a 3/8" hole, about 2" 
     deep, in a piece of hard wood (oak, if I remember correctly) - I 
     pushed the pipe into the block of oak to use as a handle.
     
     It works pretty well!!  I've only used it to bore holes in #9 stoppers 
     (for use with an Erlenmeyer flask for making starters), but I guess 
     you could use it on just about any size stopper (within reason).
     
     The only problem I had was when I wasn't paying attention and bored a 
     crooked hole that came out on the side of the stopper, near the bottom 
     - you've got to keep in mind that the stopper is going to get deformed 
     (squished) while you're boring through it!  Actually, Pete Calinski 
     makes a good point about possibly "freezing" the stopper before you 
     try to drill/bore through it.
     
     Hope this helps...
     
     Brew On & Prosit!!
     
     Bob P.
     East Haven, CT



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Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 10:24:54 -0500
From: bob_poirier at adc.com
Subject: Re:  Solder & Wort

     Greetings!!
     
     I wanted to thank all those who responded privately to my question 
     about the possible harmful consequences of soldering mash & boil 
     manifolds with lead free solder.  I won't die if I solder the 
     manifolds together, but as was suggested by more than one person, the 
     things would be a bear to keep clean!!  So, I'm planning on just 
     "friction-fitting" them together.
     
     I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank the HBD Janitors, Pat 
     Babcock & Karl Lutzen.  They both responded almost IMMEDIATELY to my 
     original post with useful and insightful information.  And, they 
     continued to respond promptly as I kept on pestering them over the 
     course of the next few days!!!  Thanks guys, and PLEASE, keep up the 
     good work!!!
     
     Brew On & Prosit!!
     
     Bob P.
     East Haven, CT
     
     PS - Regarding the concerns about censorship of the HBD, after reading 
     all the posts to date on this issue, though I understand where Steve 
     Jackson is coming from, I personally don't believe that the HBD is 
     going to become a Nazi/communistic-like entity - Pat says he WON'T let 
     this happen, and I for one believe and trust him.  Just my $0.02.



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Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:46:24 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Poldar Thermoprobes/Timers

Christophe Frey <cfrey at ford.com>

>Is
>there a solid digital probe that anyone out there would recommend? I find the
>little dial-type thermometers to be too inaccurate. I do like the pen-type of
>probes (available at Sears Hardware stores for arounf $11-$12), but their
>probe is only 3"-4", so it really can't tell me much more than the surface
>temp or temp's at the probe inlets.

I know that digital is neat, and I have a nice one from Control Co. that
has temperature alarms, nice for letting me know when my mash water is hot
enough, etc.  But the thermometer I use most is a long stem, large dial
analog one from Williams Brewing.  The digital ones display a change only
every few seconds, whereas the dial one responds continually, albeit with a
lag.  This lag is actually good - as I "stir the mash" with it (no stirring
occurs, of course, with a skinny probe), I get kind of an integral of the
varying temperatures across the different parts of the mash.  And boy can
they vary, no matter how much I stir with a paddle, it seems.  The other
thing is that I find analog displays more useful (I hate digital clocks and
speedometers for the same reason).  I really don't need to know if this
particular portion of the mash is 154.3F, as a matter of fact, it probably
isn't, at least not to that degree of significance.  I just need to know if
the mash as a whole is about right.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:12:53 -0400
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Rauch and Rubber

I have to confess that I am a smoke fanatic.  I have been using Graham
Wheeler's recipe for Schlenkerla for years now.  It is 98% rauchmalz ( I
use Weyermann's) and 2% chocolate malt.  It is great!  I tend to look at
some other so-called rauchbiers as a bit limp wristed, but that my taste.


To do a sane job of boring rubber stoppers you need a core drill -
something that does not try to chew up the center of the hole.  These are

easy to make.  All you need to do is sharpen the outside end of a tube 
and,
with a little liquid hand soap, it goes right in and it makes a cute 
little
slug that you can play with in your spare time.

Think of making a rotary knife.  The tubing can be found at any hobby 
shop
in 1/32" graduated sizes under the K&S Engineering brand name.  Cut off
about 3" and chuck it into your electric drill.  Take a file and stroke 
the
tube while it turns in the drill until a sharp edge is formed on the
outside of the tube.  Now to bore a hole, you just dab a bit of liquid 
soap
on the spot that you want a hole and apply your homemade core drill.  You

may find that only going in half way and retracting to relubricate makes
the job go easier.  I use a drill press which my life would be hell
without.

Dan Listermann   dan at listermann.com

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Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 09:47:38 PDT
From: "Marc Fries" <q_mech at hotmail.com>
Subject: Acidifying Iodophor, for poor folks

   I bought some vinegar (a.k.a. dilute acetic acid; $0.99 for a litre), 
and added about a third to the seven gallons of water required to fill 
my fermenter-carboy.  I added the required dosage of Iodophor to this to 
sanitize, and I'd like to report that it works just fine.  When I went 
to sanitize my 5 gallon carboy for the same batch, I realized that I had 
run out of vinegar.  I cut up one and a half limes (containing ascorbic 
and citric acids) and sqeezed those into the carboy with the Iodophor.  
Unfortunately, my financially-challenged self lacks the equipment to put 
any sort of serious measurements to all this, but my batch of brown ale 
is healthy and clear just prior to bottling.  I'd have to say that this 
works!  Now I'll score some pH test strips and do it right next time...!

Marc D. Fries

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 10:07:18 PDT
From: "silent bob" <holdenmcneil at hotmail.com>
Subject:  sour mash conversion

Hello all!

George De Piro wrote about his experience with a sour mash.  He said 
that after an overnight sourmash, he attempted to raise the temp into 
alpha amalase range, and that the remaining starch did not convert.  
George suspected that this was due to the pH becoming to low in the 
course of the mash.  While I agree that a low pH will inhibit and mabey 
even denature alpha amylase, I think that heat and time are the more 
likely culprits in destroying the enzymes.  Alpha amalase is only good 
for a couple of hours tops above about 148 degrees.  This combined with 
being at the sour mash temp overnight probably destroyed all of the 
enzyme.

This is just my guess on what was going on, and the main point, which is 
not to count on good conversion after an overnight sour mash is well 
taken.  Also, as anyone who has smelled day old spent grain knows, 
lactobacillus will survive alpha amylase rest temps, and so holding out 
a portion of unconverted mash is unnecessary.

Just some thoughts,

Happy brewing

Adam 

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:06:06 -0700
From: Jim Hunter <hunter3 at llnl.gov>
Subject: 3 tier brew tree

In HBD 2842, Tom and Dee wrote:


> I am trying to find something on the Web that I once found, did not
> bookmark, and now need to find again.  It was a 3 teir brew tree with
> (at least one of) the arms that could be raised up and down.  Seems that
> the one I saw used a come-a-long to move the keg/burner up and down.  If
> I can find that then I could boil at (almost) ground level and then
> raise the keg up to empty into fermenter.  Figure that will clip off
> about 30" of height requirement. 
> 
> Anybody know what the URL is for this?


You might be referring to what's called the Brew Tree. It is a dual
column frame that has a winch on the mash tun side for loading and
unloading. Its designed to hold 1/2 bbl converted kegs or accommodate a
unique kettle shape. You can get it with kegs also. I have owned one
for several years now and find it very effective.


Jim Hunter




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Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 13:39:43 -0500
From: Doug Moyer <shyzaboy at geocities.com>
Subject: "Diluted mash" question

All mighty collective,
	On this fine Friday afternoon, I am in the process of brewing a nice,
big stout, using a technique and recipe that I used a couple of months
ago. (The results were terrific!) I am using the "diluted mash" variant
of the no-sparge mash, taken from a BT article by the (recently
maligned) Louis Bonham.
	Here is the question. In a normal fly-sparge, many have recommended
that the sparge last about 45 - 60 minutes. Accordingly, I am used to
reducing the flow from the mash tun to a bare trickle. Is this necessary
with the no-sparge technique? As long as the filter bed is set, can you
increase the flow? Everything that is coming out is already in the
liquor, and you are leaving the rest in the grain. Obviously, the answer
(if I get one) won't impact today's brewing session, but I may just do
it again. What say you?
- -- 

Brew on,
Doug Moyer

Star City Brewers Guild:
	web:	http://hbd.org/starcity
	list:	mailto:starcity-list at hbd.org

Pix of baby Keira Moyer (and my brewing setup):
	web:	http://www.rev.net/~kmoyer


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Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:48:01 -0400
From: Herbert Bresler <bresler.7 at osu.edu>
Subject:  reply to: Drilling a rubber stopper, HBD#2845

Peter J. Calinski commented on Drilling a rubber stopper, a question
originally posted by, Mark A Bayer (Boeing).

>what's the approved method for drilling a rubber stopper?
>do i use a drill bit

The proper way to get a clean hole in a rubber stopper is with a cork
borer.  This is essentially a hollow tube of the desired size that is sharp
at one end.  The blunt end either has a TEE that is gripped in your hand or
a fitting that goes in your drill.  Steady drilling and pressure is applied
to get the hole cut through the stopper.  You get a nice clean hole (and a
little cylinder of rubber left inside the borer).  The important point is
that the cutting edge should be smooth like a carving knife, not jagged
like a drill bit or a bread knife.

Drill bits shred rubber stoppers because they are meant for wood or metal.
They are designed to chip away material, not cut it cleanly.  You will
never achieve a clean hole in a rubber stopper with a dril bit.  A small
hole saw perhaps will work, but it is still less than ideal because of the
jagged serrated cutting edge.

You can make a cutter yourself by sharpening the end of a piece of pipe of
the diameter that you want your hole to be.  You can also buy hole cutters
made specifically for stoppers from scientific supply houses, but they are
expensive.  A set of 9 manual cutters costs about $100; a set of 8 borers
for a drill costs about $135.  A less expensive and less time-consuming
alternative is to buy pre-bored stoppers.  Thay are available at many home
brew shops, via mail order, or through scientific supply houses.  You
should expect to pay about $1 each, give or take a few cents.

Good luck and good brewing,
Herb

[reference: Fisher Scientific supply catalog 1998/99] .....no affiliation,
yadda....




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Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 10:59:30 -0700
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu>
Subject: Some Data

I tested a bottle of 1998 SN Bigfoot the other night and let my wife do the
determination.  It came out at 1%.  I also test an imperial stout and it
was at <1/2 >1/4% after 3 weeks in the fermenter.  Oh I did this using the
Clinitest.  FWIW Bigfoot is bottle conditioned and I was able to get viable
yeast from the bottle.  So if there was anything fermetnable by the strain
SN uses the bottles would likely be overcarbonated somewhat.  Now let's all
have a rampant discussion about clinitest and see if Al and Dave can really
restrain themselves.  

Jim


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Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 14:26:06 -0400
From: Danny Breidenbach <DBreidenbach at nctm.org>
Subject:  pH

Looking for recommendations:  
What sort of pH papers are good for use in brewing?  Source to buy them?
How does one read a pH paper after it's immersed in dark, sticky mash liquor?  
Does pH vary through the depth of the grain bed?  Stir well and take a sample
from the top?
Anyone have any experience with the Texas Instruments Calculator-Based
Laboratory?  Would the Vernier pH probe work to check the pH of the mash?

I'm thinking about finally paying attention to water chemistry a little bit, so
what sort of tools do I need?

Thanks,
- --Danny
brewing away in Ashburn, VA
 


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Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:22:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: source for CO2 cylinders


I'm probably going to buy myself a keg setup for X-mas, and I was
wondering if there was a good source for CO2 cylinders and gauges.
I'm wondering about both $$ and safety issues (certification, etc.).  I
can't imagine that there isn't a commercial outfit that specializes in
gas that could provide a new setup with all the safety checks for a
reasonable price.  Anyone been down this road?

 -SM- 

P.S. I have a list of topics and posters that I feel are a not
sufficiently contributing to the S/N ratio.  Who do I send it to for
consideration?


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Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:52:04 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Protein rest two-cents

Charles Rich writes ...

>After 80 minutes at 138F the resulting wort lacked coaguable protein, not
>even much foam during the boil and no cold break just solid cloudiness,
>even after ferment.  After four weeks of cold conditioning I tried clearing
>a sample with gelatin and another with Polyclar.  Both helped, but the
>Polyclar more and it noticeably reduced the objectionable flavor.

Just to reiterate the point, gelatin and polyclar, natural protein and
unnatual protein analog, can't help very much in reducing uncoagulable
protein.  One of the odder haze treatments, adding phenolics, *might* help,
but then again you said this beer was already too tannic and the method
difficult.  Adding papain or other proteolytic enzymes to the beer could
have helped too.  Tho' I usually don't think it's useful, Irish moss in the
boiler might have been beneficial.

>Normally I'm with Kunze, but 45C-50C sounds whacked for optimal
>*proteolytic* conversion, are you sure he doesn't mean peptiditic
>degradation?

No. Kunze doesn't speak to this (as far as I've read), but M&BS cites the
lower temp range (50-55C) as giving the highest levels of permanently
soluable nitrogen (non-coagualable amino & polymers, and the higher range
(55C-60C) as giving higher levels on non-formol(non-amino or polymer)
permanent nitrogen, probably nucleaic acid nitrogen.  It's generally held
that the lower range works best for peptidases and the upper for proteases,
but it's a very mixed picture.  I think Fix PoBS used 45-50C and 40C-60C for
the two.  Throw the 'off pH' into the picture and I'd hesitate to even guess
what acts at 58.8C.

>I don't know Steve it kinda walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

If it was a duck (polypeptides) then why was the beer so tannic ?  The
phenol-polypeptide complexes a re a *LOT* less flavorful than tannins.  So I
feel that it looks like a duck(haze), but tastes like a yuck(tannin) and the
explanation it far from obvious.

I'm with Fats Waller on this one - "One never know - do one ?".

Steve Alexander




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Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:15:26 -0400 
From: Matt Comstock <MComstock at shepherdcolor.com>
Subject: RE: New-brewer questions

Thanks a lot for all the responses to my new-brewer post.  I am impressed by
the number of people that helped me with my questions.  The only way I could
probably receive this much help with these type of questions is if I was
part of a brew-club.  Speaking of which, does anyone know of an active group
in the venerable brewing city of Cincinnati?

Thanks again, all.

Matt



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Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:56:56 -0400
From: "John A. MacLaughlin" <jam at clark.net>
Subject: Re: Clinitest Brew Ha Ha

In HBD #2845 Ronald La Borde <rlabor at lsumc.edu> wrote in part: 
> What if someone gets tired about hearing about our beloved RIMS?

Well, I wouldn't have volunteered this if he hadn't asked, but I AM 
tired of hearing about his beloved RIMS.  The main reason I don't 
complain about those posts is that they remain reasonably courteously 
worded.  I figure that as long as the RIMS fans treat each other well 
there's a good chance they'll treat the rest of us well also.  And I 
find significant consolation in the knowledge that I can skip what I 
prefer to skip.  

If posts are to be limited to what interests everyone there will soon 
be none that interest anyone.  

What concerns me about the Clinitest thread is not that it became 
sterile and repetitious but that it became abusive.  Verbal abuse is 
often a precursor of a closed fist, and regardless of what else it 
may do (pound a table, punch a nose, etc.) a closed fist is always 
evidence of a closed mind.

I am no fan of censorship either, but I have observed that the fruits 
of freedom are sweet only when freedom is combined with discipline; 
freedom without discipline is license.  


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Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 17:36:01 -0500
From: tonja and kevin eichelberger <tkeich at falcon.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: sour mash-boont amber

I've heard that the folks down at Anderson Valley Brewing in Boonville use
a sour mash in producing their Boont Amber, and was wondering if anyone out
there had any experience with sour mashing an amber ale? I would like to
try this style of beer, and not having tried the beer itself or the
process, would appreciate any input. Has anyone tasted boont, what were
your flavor impressions?

Respectfully,

Kevin Eichelberger
Lawrence, KS



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Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:04:36 -0600
From: Ian Smith <isrs at cmed.com>
Subject: Polder thermometer fix.


Steve recently had problems with a Polder. I did too but I now have 3 that 
all work perfectly. Here is the problem for anyone that is interested. 
Water gets into the joint where the wire joins the >probe. Next time it 
happens put the probe in the oven at 300 F for 30 >minutes (not the 
connector though - leave it outside the door seal).
>
>To solve the problem - buy 18" of teflon heat shrink just larger internal 
>diameter than the outer diameter of the probe. Slide it over the probe and 
>also over the wire. Use a heat gun and shrink it. It should make an 
excellent >water seal. I also used a bit of silicone calking to make sure 
as well.

Ian Smith



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Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:50:37 EDT
From: AKGOURMET at aol.com
Subject: RIMS turbulence & trapped air

I'm gradually piecing together a RIMS setup and I've come up with some
questions about valves and tubing.  My system will consist of a picnic cooler
mash tun, a magnetic drive pump, 1/2" copper pipe and flexible tubing, and a
HERMS-type coil in the sparge tank.  To monitor the temperature, I was
thinking about sticking the stem of a dial thermometer through a rubber
stopper and then sticking the stopper in a copper T-fitting inline.  One
thermometer would be at the mash tun outlet and another would be inline near
the return manifold.  There would also be 1 or 2 ball valves inline.

My questions have to do with trapped air and turbulence around these fittings
and other areas in the loop, such as the ball valves and if I decide to use
3/8" tubing for the heating coil when the rest of the tubing is 1/2".  Does
the entire loop need to be completely purged of air?  Will it purge by itself?
If there is a small amount of air and turbulence around the T-fittings or the
ball valves, what effect will that have on the wort?  Seems like necking down
would be ok, but what about going from 3/8" into 1/2" pipe?  I guess it would
depend on flow rate and the amount of backpressure.  What has been the
experience of other RIMS users?

And finally, are full-port valves worth the money?  What if I use 3/4" valves
with 1/2"-3/4" fittings on either side?   That should provide the same flow
rate and would be less than half the cost of full-port.  

Thanks.

Bill Wright
Juneau, Alaska
akgourmet at aol.com



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Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 23:05:32 -0700
From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com>
Subject: Gluten Free "Beer"

Brad asks about gluten-free beer in HBD 2846.
 -snip-
 ...she is almost totally gluten intolerant,
and cannot have any beer, even though she likes it.
They asked whether there was anyway around it.
 -snip-
Dave Miller has a mead ale as well that we recommended as an experiment.
Has anyone tried making a gluten-free beer? 
Any ideas?
 -snip-

I currently have on tap 5 gallons of small mead made from 3 lbs of generic 
honey and 2 gallons of cranberry raspberry juice cocktail, perhaps similar 
to Miller's mead ale.  Yeast was Wyeast 1056.  Must was oxygenated when 
cool.  Yeast nutrient was used, as well as chalk to buffer our very soft 
water.  Fermentation was complete within a month and it fermented dry.  
This is a wonderful beverage IMHO.  It is tart, with strong fruit and 
subtle honey.  I could only call it ale in a very general  and perhaps 
ancient sense, since it contains no malt or hops.  A hoppy small metheglin 
could easily be formulated.   I doubt mead contains any gluten, but the 
lady should of course consult her doctor before taking any risk.  If  
interested, I could give more recipe details.  Wassail!
 -Grant
Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei
Des Moines, Washington, USA


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Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 04:08:54 EDT
From: Biggiebigg at aol.com
Subject: BIG glass "carboys"

Did my eyes decieve me, or did someone mention recently that they were using
some sort of large (twenty gallon???) carboy for fermentation? If i begin
brewing larger brew lengths, what is the most reasonable way for me to
continue using a standard size fridge for fermentation? also...what is the
largest size i can fit into a "standard fridge? should i use ss pots with lids
and some sort of makeshift blowoff? 

im NOT going to try to either move or manually oxygenate anything larger than
six gallons...im assuming i will need a pump. but the questions remain...what
is the most reasonable and workable way to brew a larger brew length and still
use "fridges" with thermostats for fermenters?

thanks in advance for any help!

Jim Huskey
Salina, Kansas


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Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 10:58:57 -0600 (MDT)
From: BrewsTraveler at adamsco-inc.com
Subject: KROC World Brewers Forum


                    4th Annual KROC World Brewers Forum

Even competing head-to-head with the first public session of the GABF, the
4th annual Forum was a success. Two exceptional speakers presented at the
forum. The Craft Brewer Institute President, Ray Daniels presented:
"Arsenic and Brown Malt: The Long Life and Hard Times of Porter," and Brad
Kraus, head brewer at Wolf Canyon Brewing, presented a lively discussion of
"Brewing Alt Beers."

Ray Daniels provided a very humorous and informative speech on Porters,
style origins, marketing, and their evolution. Ray discussed how both
maltsters and marketeers evolved the style from its beginnings in the early
1700's to its demise in the middle of the 1800's.

Porter production in the late 1700's was the second most capital-intensive
business to start up (second only to banking). To properly age the earliest
style porter, the beer was blended and aged in huge vats, seventeen times
larger than anything in use today. Porter production was so celebrated and
the vats so large that their grand opening in the late 1700's included
dinner and dancing for 200 people -- in the vat itself!

Ray also told a story of when one of these vats broke open spilling its
contents of porter. The rushing beer immediately killed eight people but
numerous more were injured as people rushed to the scene to consume the
fine porter flowing in the streets!

Brad Kraus told stories of his travels to Dusseldorf, Germany to sample Alt
beer and understand its variations. Brad talked about the processes used by
brewers to craft their alts, the style differences amongst breweries, the
evolution of the style, and a few good beer drinking stories.

During one of Brad's visits to Dusseldorf he was outside a pub, and a
police car came screaming up lights flashing. The police officer jumped out
of the car and grabbed an empty keg. When asked if it was an emergency, the
officer stared "Of course it is, it is 10 minutes before shift change and
we are out of beer!"

Brad was kind enough to have brought along a party pig of his Alt beer.
This exceptional sud later was awarded the Great American Beer Festival
silver medal in the German-Style Brown Ale/Dusseldorf-Style Altbier
category!

Local homebrew supply stores and breweries donated over $1000 in raffle
items, door prizes, and giveaways. The beer, brewed by KROC club members
and donated by local breweries, flowed freely and no one in the room went
home empty-handed.

In addition to many beer enthusiasts and amateur brewers in attendance the
professional community was well represented: Fred Eckhardt, Rob Moline,
Brian Rezac, and Coors' Dr. Beer: Keith Villa. Making an appearance later
in the evening were Charlie Papazian, Bill Seibel, and Bosco's Chuck
Skypeck.

- --
Copyright 1998 by John Adams
Brews Traveler(tm)



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Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:25:54 -0600 (MDT)
From: BrewsTraveler at adamsco-inc.com
Subject: GABF: Trip Report


                  17th Annual Great American Beer Festival

The Great American Beer Festival (GABF) is a week of fun in which anyone
may sample excellent beers from around the entire nation and a week of
seeing old friends and making new acquaintances. This year's GABF was
another fantastic beer vacation that started on the Saturday before at the
2nd Annual Brewers Olympics at the Lonetree Brewing Ltd. and ended late
into the night one week later at the Falling Rock Tap House.

As a member of the Professional Panel of Blind Tasting (PPBT) staff not
only do I get to be part of the GABF behind-the-scenes, but I get to become
good friends with many of the brewers. The usual suspects were in
attendance: Fred Eckhardt, Ed and Carol Stoudt (Stoudt Brewing), Geoff
Larson (Alaskan Brewing) and many others. The PPBT managers for the past
fours years, Glenn and Jean Colon-Bonet, also stopped by to say hello.

The first official kick-off of the fest was the Judges Orientation and
Reception at the Rock Bottom Brewery. Rock Bottom brewer Bill Smith treated
many of us to his special ancient-style specialty wheat. According to Bill
this brew was based on an old Summerian recipe. It had a lovely
coriander-like spice character and was very enjoyable.

After catching up a bit with Alex Vigil (Gluek Brewing) and Ken Scheirberg
(Oldenburg Brewing), a few of us headed over to the Bull and Bush to sample
Patrick's Barley Wine and his soon-to-be-awarded Big Ben ESB, yummy! To
rejoin our friends we headed over to The Falling Rock Tap House for a
Paulaner Salvator night cap!

Wednesday was the first day of judging and in the spirit of tradition (a
long tradition) a hang-over was in order. Our morning session was
German-Style Wheat Ales followed by Munchener Helles in the afternoon.
Nothing gets you back on your feet faster than starting the morning with
the hair of the dog!

Wednesday evening was the Brewers Gathering over at the LoDo Music Hall
Event Center. We got a head start by visiting Chris Black (Falling Rock Tap
House) and had a few beers from his stock for a little pre-party libation.
Stoudt Brewing brewed a special Marzen, and I got my first chance to sample
it with both Ed and Carol. I talked with Sean Franklin (Roosters, Yorkshire
England) about his recent fishing trip to the North Platte. I also said
hello to Peter Camps (Celis) and Pierre Celis.

After the gathering we headed back to the Falling Rock (for a post-party
libation) for a Spaten Oktoberfest. We finished the night at our hotel room
with Tom Hail (The Sandlot), Patrick Dobolek (Bull and Bush), and Ralph
Koch (Kaltenberg Castle) consuming Heavenly Daze India Pale Ale and other
beers from the day's judging.

Thursday morning's judging sessions included Rauchbier followed by some
very nice Barley Wine (Anchor's Old Foghorn and Avery's Hog Heaven) which
put me in good spirits for that night's big event. After a quick bite to
eat, I went over to the KROC World Brewers Forum with Ray Daniels (Craft
Beer Institute) and Brad Kraus (Wolf Canyon). Brad brought a party pig of
his Silver medal winning Alt Beer which is mighty tasty. Bill Siebel
(Siebel Institute of Technology) and Charlie Papazian (Association of
Brewers) made a brief appearance before doing the Stoogie and Stout party
at the Rock Bottom.

Friday morning was our only session with the Bock beers. After three days
of GABF, I finally arrived at Currigan Hall. I attended the Business of
Beer session followed by the Friday evening public session. I chatted with
Institute for Brewing Studies Russ Schehrer Award winner Garret Oliver on
the way to the hall. After only nine hours of drinking at the fest, the
PPBT party was next on the agenda with hundreds of different beers,
smoked-salmon, and a variety of delicious mead furnished by Glenn
Colon-Bonet.

Saturday was the first day I got more than five hours of sleep but without
haste I headed over to the AHA Members-only session. I led a small but
dedicated group on an AHA beer tour of Oktoberfest where we sampled all
three medal winners including the Gold medal winning Norwester's
Oktoberfest as well as many close contenders. I talked with Chuck Skypeck
about his Steinbier and his breweries in Tennessee. The afternoon session
blended into evening and before you know it it was last call.

A few of the PPBT staff then grabbed a quick bite of Sushi and downed a
Kirin Black. After this we went to, where else, the Falling Rock. I downed
an Erdinger Weissbier with Dayton Canaday (Alaskan Brewing) and said my
good-byes to all of my friends until next year.

Every year this event gets better and better. The number and variety of
beers increase, are higher quality, and the parties non-stop. Years and
years of training is involved to reach this level of achievement.
All-in-all I devoted more than 70 hours to beer drinking or beer drinking
activities. Be forewarned, this pace is only for professionals and do not
try this on your own. Until next year, Prost!

- --
Copyright 1998 by John Adams
Brews Traveler(tm)



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Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:31:10 -0600 (MDT)
From: BrewsTraveler at adamsco-inc.com
Subject: Brewers Olympics


                       Second Annual Brewers Olympics

The 2nd Annual Brewers Olympics is an event that I would like to see more
beer enthusiasts -amateur and professional- be involved with. The reason we
drink and brew beer is to have fun, and this event exemplifies this
behavior.

The Colorado Brewers Guild sponsored event was held at Lonetree Brewery's
parking lot. Lonetree, High Point, Bull and Bush, and Avery beers were
available as well as porter-soaked brauts. Everyone that attended,
participants and observers alike, enjoyed the drink, food, and of course,
the events.

This year's participants were Avery Brewing Co., the Birko Corporation,
Bull and Bush Brewhouse (two teams), and Lonetree Brewing Ltd.

The Olympics consist of eight different events, the winner of the most
events winning Best of Show. Lonetree Brewing nearly swept the competition
taking 5 of the 8 categories and winning Best of Show.

The events and winners:

Keg Catapult: Each team sees how far they can toss an empty keg. This event
was taken by the boys from Lonetree.

Barley Bag Relay: A relay-style race but instead of passing a baton, a sack
of grain is used. The Avery team took this event.

Spray Wars: Each team fills a beer cup from a distance of 5 feet. Best time
wins. Winner: Lonetree Brewing.

Mini Mash Movement: With only a small spoon, teams must move 5g of spent
grain while holding a beer, no messes allowed. A very controversial event
due to the "Avery Grab" which explains why they took the honors.

Dolly Dash: Each team maneuvers a full keg on a hand truck through a slalom
course. Lonetree takes the gold!

Braille Pale Pour: A brains over brawn event. Teams have to fill 6 cups to
the a pre-determined line while blind-folded. Lonetree again!

Jack and Back Race: Using a lift, a pallet, two kegs, and one team member
surfin, each team must do the slalom track without losing anything. The
Bull and Bush team #1 take this honor.

Death by Foam: Each team member needs to fill a pitcher of beer to the top
with no foam allowed (and yes the beer was extremely foamy). Foam may be
removed with a small spoon, no pouring off allowed. Lonetree is pulling
away from the pack with the gold in this event.

I would love to see this event grow to include homebrew supply stores,
homebrew clubs, and professional brewers. This event would make an
excellent finale to the week of beer at the Great American Beer Festival
where the business of beer is just plain fun.

- --
Copyright 1998 by John Adams
Brews Traveler(tm)



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Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 10:49:03 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: valve stems

>A question for you: have you stored beer in these for more than a week
>or two?  Does the rubber of the valve stem (which is probably butyl,
>certainly not food grade and rather icky-smelling) impart any aroma
>or flavour to the beer?  What if you store it on its side (so the beer
>actually touches the rubber)?  Can this extract any unpleasant or
>perhaps even dangerous compounds from the rubber?  Chemists?

Shouldn't be a problem if you purchase the metal (chrome plated brass)
ones.  I wouldn't be surprised if you could find stainless somewhere.
There are small gaskets for these metal valve stems and you could always
cut your own gaskets out of some food grade material.

The metal valve stems are usually sold as *high performance* parts.  They
are held in place with a nut.  I've used them many times in soda bottles
and each of my kegs has one installed in the lid.  I've never had any
problems that I could pin on the valve stem.  OTOH, I've never stored my
beer for extended time in the PET bottles and my kegs are vertical in my
fridge.  If you are a doubter, a quick trip to the auto parts store would
be in order.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 15:09:47 -0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Pewter...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Pewter is an alloy of  tin with antimony, copper and lead. The 
quantities of each can vary. I believe that pewter is not approved 
for food-handling utensils in the US, but I may be wrong. Generally, 
though, you don't see much pewter in the housewares section these 
days...

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan          pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor            janitor@hbd.org
AOL FDN Beer & Brewing Maven        BrewBeerd at aol.com


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Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:18:40 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Pewter,

Brewsters:

Paul Haaf says "doesn't pewter contain lead?"

Old pewter ( like in Paul Revere's day) was an alloy containing
lead, but as far as I know, all modern U.S. pewter does not have
lead in it.
- -------------------------------

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  

Voice e-mail OK 


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Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 19:53:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Houseman <dhousema at cccbi.org>
Subject: Changes in AHA Board of Advisors

There have been some changes with member representation at the AHA.  These
have been posted on the AHA's Member Only web site but it seems to me that a
broader audience should be made aware of them.  In fact, I thought that
someone who had read these would have already commented on this forum.
Maybe they did and I missed it?  

At the AHA Conference in Portland this Summer, the Board of Advisors and the
AHA voted to amend the By Laws of the Board of Advisors to make it's
membership elected by the AHA membership as a whole.  We also increased the
number of Board of Advisors members.  These new seats, and the current ones
as they become open, will be filled by votes of the AHA membership.
Nominations for the Board of Advisors to fill the current vacant seats are
open.  All AHA members can go to the Members Only section of the AHA web
site to find the BOA By Laws governing these elections.  BTW, although we
voted these changes in July, the By Laws themselves required a waiting
period after the final changes were made to them and were voted on to become
effective.  They were then posted on the web site.

In addition to the AHA members now having elected representatives to the
Board of Advisors, the Chair of the Board of Advisors is now a full voting
member of the Assocation of Brewers Board of Directors.  So that the AHA
membership now has representation on the Board of Directors of the AOB.  

These are real, substantial and positive changes for AHA members.  Paul,
Brian and others at the AHA are committed to continuing these sort of
changes and making the AHA more responsive and responsible to its members.
This is only the begining of changes.  Members should go to the Members Only
section, read new By Laws, and send nominations for BOA to any of the Board
members or to the AHA.

Dave Houseman
Member, AHA Board of Advisors 



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Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:19:04 -0500
From: Keith Busby <kbusby at ou.edu>
Subject: Bottle Fermentation

What are the pros and cons of secondary fermentation in the bottle? I take
it that using a second yeast at bottling could produce a more complex beer
and improve aroma? Is there only a point in doing this with high gravity
beers such as tripels? And what kind of quantities are we talking about
for, say, a 5-gallon batch? Added with priming sugar at bottling? Is there
any danger of exploding bottles? Gushing? I am assuming regular
fermentation in carboys would be complete at bottling.

Keith Busby


Keith Busby
George Lynn Cross Research Professor
Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies
University of Oklahoma
780 Van Vleet Oval, Room 202
Norman, OK 73019
Tel: (405) 325-5088. Fax: (405) 325-0103


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Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 18:22:09 -0700
From: "Doug Otto" <dotto at calweb.com>
Subject: 240V GFI

As mentioned in a couple other posts, I'm in the design phase of my version
of a HERMs.  From research I've been doing and listening to others I'm
considering running the lauter tun heater on 240V to help maintain a steady
temp.  I'm planning on using basic water heater hardware to do the job for
me.  What concerns me is the lack of a ground leg on your standard 240V
outlet here in the US.  Because of the liquids involved and the amount of
metal hardware, I'd like to run GFI on the circuit but have never seen such
an animal for 240V.  I know that for all intents the neutral leg is the same
as ground, but is that good enough and are there GFI breakers available for
240V?

Thanks - (hoisting a pint)

- --
Doug Otto
Sacramento, CA
dotto at calweb.com



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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:11:39 -0500
From: Duff Hickman <duff at unix.tamu.edu>
Subject: Re: Polder Thermoprobes/Timers

HBD,

I also had one of these thermometer/timers start to give wacky readings
after 1 or 2 uses.  I think the problem is that they are designed for use
in roasts, etc that are in the relatively dry environment of a heated oven.
Assuming that you have the same model as mine, the upper end of the probe
is just crimped onto the shielded wire and not sealed.  I think in the hot,
humid environment of a steaming mash or a pre-boil wort, water vapor works
its way into the probe, shorting out (changing the resistance
characteristics?) of the thermocouple inside.

To test this theory and attempt to remedy the situation, I stuck the probe
into an oven and heated it to 300F to dry it out.  Sure enough, around 230F
(by the oven's temp gauge) the readout temp on the Polder went nuts for a
few minutes and eventually came to rest at the correct temp.  Now, before
each brew session, I dry it out in this fashion.  It appears to work OK
now, but I don't think I'd advise a friend to buy one.

YMMV.

 -Duff


- -------------------------
Duff Hickman
College Station, TX
- -------------------------




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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 19:09:49 +0100
From: "Tom & Dee McConnell" <tdmc at bigfoot.com>
Subject: home made carbonators

seems to me that using the car tire valve stems is a good idea, but 
I share Al Korzonas' concern for the non-food grade rubber.  
But...... it would seem that one could coat the inside of the lid (and 
all but the tiniest of air inlet hole in the valve stem for seemingly 
obvious reasons!) with RTV or other silicon cement for a protective 
layer.  agree? disagree?

either way, we could all have a pint and not worry.

Tom & Dee McConnell (tdmc at bigfoot.com)
Littleport, Ely, Cambridgeshire, UK


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---