HOMEBREW Digest #2870 Sat 07 November 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  RE: Largering (John_E_Schnupp)
  oregon brew crew (JPullum127)
  Part 2, response to discussion CHILL HAZE (Fred Scheer)
  Part 1, response to discussion CHILL HAZE (Fred Scheer)
  cherries in my stout(hopefully) (Vincent A Dongarra)
  Sugar is as sugar does ("Crossno, Glyn")
  Electric Stove (Richard S. Kuzara)
  Richmond Va Brewpubs (Nathan Kanous)
  Removing the rootlets from malt ("George De Piro")
  Yeast Slurry Storage ("Marc Battreall")
  3-tier rims ("Spies, James")
  Fluid dynamics of a grain bed/Infected Belgians (David C. Harsh)
  Question about yeast nutrient (Brian Pickerill)
  Belgian candi (Stephen Cavan)
  Thomas Fawcett (TF) malts (Jeff Renner)
  Re: More malting questions (Jeff Renner)
  Kegging (David Peters)
  Brew Clubs in Oklahoma (Carl Wilson)
  Beer Pinball (Tim Anderson)
  Classic American Pilsner (Delano DuGarm)
  Oxidation (Eric.Fouch)
  dark candi sugar ("Bayard W. Wenzel")
  pronunciation (Peter.Perez)
  wyeast 1028/cold break question (Andrew Stavrolakis)
  Smoked Brown Ale ("Mark E. Hogenmiller")
  Cold Fermenting ("Kelly C. Heflin")
  HERMS and RIMS (Jeff Pursley)
  Re: Widmer Hefewiezen Yeast (Scott Murman)
  Kit Beer Questions (AKGOURMET)
  Hey Fridge Guy.  A quick Hot/Cold question (Brad Plummer)
  Plastic Quick Connect Source (WayneM38)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:00:15 -0800 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: RE: Largering >>I heard that you can larger beers without the use of a fridge. Is that >>true and how is it done. I would like brew a Pilsner and I will have the >The temperature needs to be steady, and at the optimum for the beer you are >lagering. If you are lucky enough to have this kind of weather, and you are >on good terms with your weather radio, then - go for it! Here's another option that works if you live in a northern climate when the average outdoor temp is at or below the desired fermentation temperature. Build a container that will house your fermenter I used a wooden box, you could make it out of most anything. Install a heat source, I used a light bulb. I hooked the light bulb up to a temp controller used for heating instead of cooling. When ever the temp gets too cold the heat source will come on and provide warmth. I think I used a 100 W bulb. I ferment in glass carboys so I also had it covered to protect it from the light. It should be noted that you should make/use the proper electrical connections/equipment if this device is to be used outdoors. I have brewed a few batches using this warming box without problems. John Schnupp, N3CNL Colchester, VT 95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:06:58 EST From: JPullum127 at aol.com Subject: oregon brew crew thanks to all who responded. the brew crew folks intend to post the collaborator milk stout recipe at their web site within a week for those who asked me to share the info i recieved marc web address is listed below <DIV>Try contacting them through their web page at <A HREF="http://www.patch.com/obc/">http://www.patch.com/obc/</A></DIV> Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:23:05 -0700 From: Fred Scheer <maltster at marsweb.com> Subject: Part 2, response to discussion CHILL HAZE The formation of Protein precipitation is as follows: 1.) PROTEINS - originate from Malt and have undergone a reduction of molecular size. 2.) TANNIN - like compound (polyphenols) which are found in Malt and partly originate from Hops 3.) OXYGEN - plays a part in formation of haze. The most concern must be given to air pick up after fermentation. During the malting process, high molecular protein from barley is converted to higher and medium peptides and to amino acids. For stabilization purposes, the amino acids need to be considered, also the lower peptides, but the higher molecular peptides are the group we are interested in. During the mashing process the amino acids and medium peptides are first dissolved, before coagulation takes place by boiling the wort. The higher molecular proteins are partly coagulated during boiling in the form of the so called "hot break". Another part forms a compound with Tannins (Polyphenols) and is soluble in heat. During the cooling process these compounds become insoluble (cold trub). Soluble, higher molecular, protein - tannin compounds remain in the wort and become insoluble during fermentation and storage. During the process, oxidized polyphenols together with the remaining proteins form new protein-tannin compounds that during the course of time grow into bugger molecules. When beer is cooled, these molecules precipitate as insoluble haze, which later becomes permanent. Storage of fermented beer at near-freezing temperatures (if you do so, you can calculate the freezing point of your beer before) continues the further precipitation of haze-active protein materials. Beers hold for a longer time at lower temperatures tend to be more stable, and also easier to be stabilized. Fred M. Scheer MALT MONTANA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:21:49 -0700 From: Fred Scheer <maltster at marsweb.com> Subject: Part 1, response to discussion CHILL HAZE On Tuesday, Nov. 3, 1998 I saw a posting in hbd about old maltst/doppels/Colloidal Haze. My posting is regarding the colloidal haze, as I think it is a bit more complicated than descriped. The goal of any chill proofing techniques is removal of the protein and/ or Tannin involved in haze formation, or rendering the protein or Tannin molecules so that either is incapable of forming a visible haze. It must be emphasized that all beers are different, and each requires a slightly different treatment for chemical-physical stabilization. The main processing approaches to chill proofing are proteolytic enzymes, protein adsorbents and protein precipitants like Tannin. However, there are also additional ways which contribute to increase the physical stability, such as improved filtration techniques and materials, using of fining agents for accelerated clarification during storage, decreased contamination from iron and copper ions, lowered dissolved oxygen levels at all processing stages, adaption of centrifugation of fermented beers, and last but not least the usage of improved barley varieties for malting. Colloidal stability is enhanced by using well-modified malts that possess sufficient diastase but minimal soluble protein, employing sufficient times for proteolysis during mashing, ensuring conversion before mash-off, controlling the pH of mash and sparge water, employing a vigorous, rolling boil in the kettle, and clarifying wort before pitching and fermentation. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:47:29 -0600 (CST) From: Vincent A Dongarra <vad1 at Ra.MsState.Edu> Subject: cherries in my stout(hopefully) Hi there, I am new to brewing and would like some advice. I have only brewed one five-gallon batch of stout and loved the results, but this time would like to flavor it with cherries. All I have is a basic plastic primary and a priming tank that, I suppose, could be used for a secondary. I already have the malt extract ingredient kit from william's for some more stout. Can I add cherries at the end of the wort boil and just pour them in with everything, or should I sparge them out? I don't have access to fresh fruit, so can I use frozen or canned? Will doing this increase the fermentation time and make my beer taste like plastic from sitting in a bucket for too long? I really hope someone can help me out here, although, to be honest, I like the stout straight just fine thanks in advance Vincent Dongarra Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:49:12 -0600 From: "Crossno, Glyn" <Glyn.Crossno at cubic.com> Subject: Sugar is as sugar does This may be true in brewing. But in baking there is a difference between cane sugar and beet sugar. I have several recipes where you will be disappointed if you use beet sugar. Glyn "Wondering what a real Alt tastes like" Crossno In Estill Springs, TN - --------------- Drink up, my son! May the joys of today be those of tomorrow! May thy goblet of life hold no dregs of sorrow!! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 05:52:22 -0700 From: rkuzara at wyoming.com (Richard S. Kuzara) Subject: Electric Stove <"DARMARHAD" writes <I just started brewing two months ago, so I am really new to this hobby. My <question is: <I brew my wort on top of an electric stove. I think I need a heat ring or a <fire ring. I would appreciate any and all input. Where can one acquire a <Fire ring. I brew on an electric stove and I worry about any top damage due to the long hours of high heat use. Additionally, I wish to concentrate as much heat as possible on the kettle. Therefore, I remove the two electric elements (but not the drip pans) and put a large sheet of tin foil across the two burner areas. I then puncture holes and reinsert the elements. This has three affects: it protects the stove enamel, it concentrates the heat, and it keeps the stove top clean. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 07:22:46 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Richmond Va Brewpubs Going to be in Richmond VA on Nov 16th. Any good brewpubs to check out? Thanks. nathan Nathan L. Kanous II, Pharm.D., BCPS Clinical Assistant Professor School of Pharmacy University of Wisconsin - Madison Office Phone (608) 263-1779 Pager (608) 265-7000 #2246 (digital) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 9:22 -0800 From: "George De Piro" <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> Subject: Removing the rootlets from malt Hi all, Ian asks how to remove the rootlets from his homemade malt, and if it is really necessary to do this. The rootlets contain unwanted protein and will also add weight to the malt (so you will get a lower yield per unit weight). They are relatively easy to remove by putting the malt on a screen and rubbing it with your hands. The delicate rootlets will fall off and go through the screen while the kernels remain on top. If you made a lot of malt it may take you a little while, but mindless work is sometimes pleasant. Have fun! George de Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:32:38 -0500 From: "Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net> Subject: Yeast Slurry Storage Hello All, I just wanted to share some information I have gathered with you all in regards to storing yeast slurries in the refrigerator after harvesting them from the fermenter. With the recent release of the special issue of Zymurgy that is all about yeast I figured the time was right. The info to follow was not exactly based on a controlled scientific experiment that I conducted but more so based on my own observations and experience. YMMV of course. I have a habit of saving the yeast slurry from just about every brew I make even if I have no intentions of using it again. As a general rule I will clean and sanitize (with boiling water) a quart Mason jar and then pour the slurry along with a cup or so of beer from the carboy after I have racked the beer to the secondary into the jar, place an airlock on it, label it with the date and other pertinent info, and set it in the refrigerator at about 40F. I have read in a few of the "older" homebrewing books (NCJH et al) that yeast has been stored like this for up to six months and reused with good results. I have personally never reused these six month old ones but I still saved them, don't ask me why. I managed to gather a collection of 8 as of the other day. I got the idea to see if I could revive them just the other day and that brings me to my quasi-experiment. Out of the eight I had, 4 of them were definitely bad so they went down the drain. The 4 I decided to try to revive are: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch, Wyeast 1318 London Ale III, Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager, and Yeastlab A07 Canadian Ale. They all were from primary fermentations as described above except for the London Ale which was skimmed from the top of a primary open fermentation. They were all from about the same date which was April of this year making them roughly 6-7 months old, and stored underneath the beer they produced at 40F. I carefully decanted the old spent wort off the top of them and poured the slurry into quart Mason jars and added 300 ml of fresh sterile 1.035 hopped wort to each and put on a rubber stopper and an airlock. (In case you are wondering, a #12 stopper is the one for standard size Mason jars). All four were about 60-75 ml slurry volume. The Yeastlab A07 showed the first signs of life within about 6 hours, with the Wyeast 2565 and 2206 following suit a few hours after that. Now, two days later the same three are going pretty good and the Wyeast 1318 has done nothing. This seems odd to me because it was the one from the open ferment which was top skimmings and appeared to be the cleanest looking yeast I had ever harvested at the time. Anyway, I will probably not use any of these to brew with, but just thought the collective might be interested in the results of this minor experiment. THE MORAL OF THE STORY: Yes, you can probably salvage yeast slurry from your primary fermenter and store it away for months on end and reuse it and get good results. However, with the availability of fresh new cultures and the fact that alot of people now have taken up yeast ranching, there is no reason to save the slurry for that long unless you are going to reuse it within a week or so like most brewing texts suggest. Why take chances? Me personally, I have 40+ yeast strains in my ranch on slants so I can't tell you why I saved these for that long. I guess I am just anal when it comes to yeast. But it is fun nevertheless!! Have A Hoppy Day! Marc ======================= Captain Marc Battreall Backcountry Brewhouse Islamorada, Florida batman at terranova.net Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:45:11 -0500 From: "Spies, James" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> Subject: 3-tier rims All - Mark Kirkby writes in concerning a 3 tier rims . . . >>>I can use half height ponykegs(7.5) gal for a HLT and a boiler, and then use the cooler on the middle shelf to mash in. Am I cutting to close on volume/capacity?<<< >>>I can only do 5 gal. batches.<<< You should be fine for 5 gallon batches. However, if you're going to go to the trouble of building a 3 tier system, why not go for 10 gallon capacity. A 48 quart MT should give you enough grain volume for about 26 lbs of grain, enough for 10 gal batches of 1060's beer. Believe me, the "must brew mass quantites" bug *will* bite, and if you use a pony keg for the boiler, you'll be out of luck height-wise for a regular sanke keg with your suggested frame size. >>>is there any reason why the bottom and top levels(the ones with the kegs on them) can't be under each other. This would leave the width of only 2 tiers yet accomplish the goal.<<< I guess you're thinking that the HLT would be on top, the boiler underneath and the MT on the other side for gravity feed purposes. This would work, but I'd be concerned about 1) cramped space between the boiler and the bottom of the HLT, and 2), condensation buildup all over the place if you have a wooden frame. I'd either stick to the stairstep or invest in a small pump (1/100 hp) and arrange the system with the MT on top, the HLT under it, and the boiler out to the side. Use the pump to get mash and sparge water to the MT, and gravity to the boiler. This lets the boil kettle vent freely, and also allows for gravity runoff to the fermenter, if the frame is built correctly. >>>Has anybody ever mounted an electric heating element in a SS keg?<<< Check out the system at http://andinator.com/zymico/zymico.html His HLT has a heater element in it. (plus just a few other gadgets) If you put an electric element in a HLT, though, make sure you talk to folks who know how to wire it before you proceed (if you don't already). I don't suppose that electrocution would be much fun. Jay Spies Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:07:27 -0500 From: David.Harsh at uc.edu (David C. Harsh) Subject: Fluid dynamics of a grain bed/Infected Belgians I'd like to commend the quality experimental work on fluid patterns in a grain bed from John Palmer. As expected, a false bottom over the entire bottom of the tun is best, a point sink drain is the worst. I would suspect that a "U" or "H" or "theta" shape would probably perform (within experimental error) as well as the full false bottom as long as your sparging rate isn't too fast. What hasn't been addressed as a variable is the aspect ratio (Length/Diameter) of the lauter tun. As the height increases (at constant diameter), the problems due to reduced false bottom area become less significanat; as L/D decreases, they become more significant. Commercial brewers have a much smaller L/D than we do (i.e., a room size lauter tun with L/D of .25 or so), and as George dePiro noted, they use uniform false bottoms across the entire tun. On the homebrew scale (a ten gallon Gott with L/D=1 or greater), you can get "good" results with a point source drain. Many people have mentioned getting a "working model" of lautering but you can't do this if ignore mass transfer resistances (both diffusion and convection) in the system. Once we solve it, what do we gain? An extra point of extract? For all the work involved, I'll stick to Narziss' heuristic and enjoy myself. Note: I teach chemical engineering and understanding the interest in the problem. I've toyed with the concept of solving the unsteady-state mass balance equations out of curiosity (I know, top 10 ways to tell you're a geek). If there's really interest, maybe I'll actually do it. It's just that a more efficient lautering won't automatically make better beer. - ---------------- On "infected" Belgian beers- The problem is that many people don't know the difference between a non-Saccharomyces yeast strain and a bacteria. Then there's the use of indigenous microflora (that's probably not the right terminology) for fermentation of lambics. This combines with the fact that many Belgian beers have flavor profiles that are not inconsistent with infections in other styles such as sour, acidic, phenolic etc. So someone tastes a Belgian ale, knows that the flavor profile was desired by the brewer, they conclude it is "intentionally infected". It's just the wrong terminology. Dave Harsh Cincinnati, OH Practical Joke on John Glenn: When the space shuttle lands, everybody put on ape suits. Pass it on. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:37:05 -0500 From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill) Subject: Question about yeast nutrient I have some yeast nutrient (I think it's di-amonium phosphate) that I bought for stuck fermentations and have never used. Now I am wanting to make my first mead and the stuff looks and smells pretty nasty. Not surprisingly, it smells like amonia. I know the smell wasn't that strong when I bought this about 2 years ago, and it was a dry light brown powder. It hasn't turned to goo or anything, but it's moist kind of like brown sugar in consistency. This is stored in a relatively dry location (not a basement) so I am not sure if there is some mosture pickup (it's in a small zip lock) or if the chemical is breaking down somehow. So, is this still OK to use? I would just buy some more but it's over 100 miles to the nearest homebrew shop. I have looked everywhere on the web for mead info and nobody talks about this stuff going bad. Thanks, - --Brian Pickerill, Muncie Malt Mashers, Muncie, IN Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:21:38 -0600 (CST) From: Stephen Cavan <cavanst at duke.usask.ca> Subject: Belgian candi Although I agree with the observations that have been made that all refined sucrose is the same no matter the source, this only applies if the refining is very pure. I recall from school chemistry that refined table is sugar is one of the purest chemicals available to people, and on this point Belgian Candi differs. My Belgian candi is 95% sucrose, so what is the remaining 5%? How does that affect the end result? I know two fanatical Belgian brewers, one of whom grew up there, and one who visited long enough to become fanatical. They both insist that table sugar does not work, that it lacks something. They are looking for nuances and perhaps that is the answer. Nuances are by definition small touches. That 5% unknown is a small touch, but to some a critical touch. Some people don't notice that nuance and would waste their money looking for it. In a similar way, a British Bitter made with Maris Otter has something for me that the same beer brewed with Harrington 2-row lacks. I notice that nuance, but many people don't. My thoughts anyway, Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:35:43 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Thomas Fawcett (TF) malts "George De Piro" <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> asked: No, but as I am interested in malted oats for recreation of a midieval recipe, I am looking into them. They have a web page: http://www.fawcett-maltsters.co.uk/welcom.htm BTW, based on my experience with 50% home malted oats in a 1.096 unhopped ale (the aforementioned midieval recipe), I would suggest that malted oats really do add an oily mouthfeel. About 10w40 in the case of this particular brew! No kraeusen in the fermenter, however, so a lower level than 50% would seem to be a good idea for head retention in a conventional modern brew. There is one brewery in UK which makes and exports to the US an oat malt stout, which they claim is unique. In my search for malted oats, I checked with several maltsters in US and UK and came up empty. Arcadian Brewery in western Michigan makes an oat malt stout which uses Engllish flaked oats that are referred to as malted on the bag, but communication with the mastster made me doubtful. They said they had no enzymatic power. I think Fawcett's malted oats would be a nice ingredient at, say, 10% in a stout. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:51:04 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: More malting questions Home maltster Ian Lyons <ilyons at science.adelaide.edu.au> asks >Most of you won't know that when malted grain gets to you it has had the >tufty rootlets removed! Question is: why is it removed? (my guess is >that they contain lots of (irrelevant) proteins and little starch). And >what is the technical term for tufty rootlets. I think it is because they are just messy trash. Very dusty. The proper name is "culms." From OED: culm 4, var. come sb.2 1940 in Chambers's Techn. Dict. 215/1. 1953 Word for Word (Whitbread & Co;) 17/1 Culms (or Coombes), the rootlets which are sieved from the malt at the end of the malting process; they are used for poultry and cattle food. And: come koum, kum, , sb.2 Now chiefly dial. Also 5 pl. comys, 7 coom, 9 coomb, comb. [Known only from 15th c., but app. cognate with mod.G. keim in same sense, and thus repr. an OE. *cm:-OTeut. type *kaimo- in ablaut relation to *kmo-, *kmon-, whence OHG. chm, chmo. It has app. been sometimes confused with prec.; cf. come v. in sense 14. ] The radicle of barley or other grain which in malting is allowed to develop to a certain point, and is then dried up by the process of roasting, and afterwards separated from the malt. In earlier quots. the acrospire was perhaps included. C. 1440 Promp. Parv. 89 Comys of malte [1499 commys], pululata. 1615 Markham Eng. Housew. ii. vii. (1668) 171 You shall rub it [the Malt] exceeding well between your hands, to get the Come or sprouting clean away. 1615 Markham Eng. Housew., ii. vii. (1668) 171 The falling off of the come or sprout when it is throughly dryed. 1671 Grew Anat. Plants i. i. 3 In Corn [the Radicle] is that Part, which Malsters, upon its shooting forth, call the Come. 1783 Ainsworth Lat. Dict. (Morell) i. Come, small strings of malt. 1872 Oliver Elem. Bot. ii. 279 The sprouted radicles (called coombs or chives) are broken off and separated. 1888 W. Somerset Word-bk. s.v. Combings, In the process of malting each corn of barley grows a very distinct root-called combings or combs. I'll bet that's more than you wanted to know! Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 11:53:58 -0500 From: David Peters <dpeters3 at ford.com> Subject: Kegging I am in the process of setting up kegging operations. I have procured a freezer for lagering. This limits me in the space available for dispensing. I do not have the room to set a separate refrigerator for dispensing along with a bar in the basement. So, along with the freezer that I bought used came an old Pepsi dispensing unit. Chiller and all included. I plan to set up the kegs under the bar, run them through the Pepsi chiller and dispense them from the bar. I would appreciate any feedback on 1. The system as described 2. Leaving kegs at room temperature (68-70) 3. Pressure required to dispense in these conditions 4. Has this type of setup been used successfully 5. Other words of wisdom on the suggested system TIA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 11:09:52 -0600 From: Carl Wilson <carl_w at prodigy.net> Subject: Brew Clubs in Oklahoma I'm looking for any brewing clubs in Oklahoma, and southwestern Oklahoma in particular. Any help would be greatly appreciated. carl_w at prodigy.net Carl Wilson Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:11:24 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Anderson <timator at yahoo.com> Subject: Beer Pinball This is a bit wide of topic, so I'll be brief. A pretty good, FREE pinball game from Dommelsch Bier, with a beer theme: http://www.dommelsch.nl/flipper/flipper.html Knock down beer bottles, hit bar stools, etc. Good graphics, decent action and sound. As far as I can tell (my Dutch isn't very good) they don't send you any beer for a high score. tim (In no way connected to Dommelsch. Haven't even tried the beer.) == Please ignore the advertisement below. Thank you. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 13:06:53 -0500 From: Delano DuGarm <dugarm at mnsinc.com> Subject: Classic American Pilsner Gordon Strong asks: >Are there any credible commercial versions of this style (particularly >in the midwest)? One of the perks of judging (and brewing for that >matter) is getting to sample these little-known styles. But I'm looking >for examples that might be more accessible to non-brewers/judges. One example might be Saranac's new "Traditional Lager." I get some grainy corn sweetness from it, though I think the hopping a bit low. The only place I've found it is in the Saranac 12 beers of Christmas 12 pack, though. Delano DuGarm Arlington, Virginia dugarm at mnsinc.com Return to table of contents
Date: 6 Nov 1998 13:08:00 -0500 From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com Subject: Oxidation HBD- The last few brews I have submitted for evaluation and contests have been dinged for oxidation flavors. I must have a high tolerance for oxidation flavors (even though I have picked it up at a few micros, and publicly announced it in this forum), because I don't pick it up in my own fresh beers. I recently tried a few bottles of 1+ year old light brews I brewed a while back and had sitting around. Sure enough, I could taste it now (carboardy, sherry like flavors), when I couldn't pick it up when the beer was younger. So that got me to looking at my process to find the possible sources. I don't think I have HSA problems, as I don't transfer the mash, splash or muck about much with the mash. Recirculation and sparging is done with care, as is transfer to the boil pot. My Great HBD Palexperimental Ale also got nailed for oxidation (I couldn't taste it) and that was minimal sparge, and no transfer to secondary. The only thing I can think of is the bottling step (OK- I think about sex a lot, too). I don't try to minimize the little bit of gurgling that takes place when I use my bottling wand (I know, I know- take off the skirt, and start kegging......I will someday). Anyway, I wonder how important that little gurgle gurgle is. The last two batches I bottled I did things a little differently: I prepared the priming solution as usual, and instead of transferring to a bottling bucket with the primings, I used a syringe to get the required amount of primer into each bottle. I know that bottle priming isn't exactly cutting edge, and takes a bit longer, but by using a solution, the bottling wand no longer gurgles when I fill the bottles. What are our thoughts on this as oxidation avoidance behavior, and where else in the process might I look for reducing oxidative opportunities? Eric Fouch Bent Dick SherryShop Kentwood, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:28:27 -0500 (EST) From: "Bayard W. Wenzel" <biomorph at moloch.mse.tay.dec.com> Subject: dark candi sugar Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> said: Now, if you are making a dubbel and want a darker candi sugar, you have the choice of caramelizing some table sugar yourself, or buying some. As posted a few days ago, doing it yourself and getting the degree of caramelization just right is tricky, so buying the real thing might be the best way to go. in my experience, caramelized sugar and dark candi sugar are not the same thing. if you taste the difference between dark candi sugar and light candi sugar, you'll note that the flavour difference is very subtle (at least for the candi sugar i've acquired in the past). caramelized sugar, on the other hand, has an intense flavour. the closest thing i've found to dark candi sugar is jamaican burnt sugar, this black syrup that's kinda like dark candi sugar extract- all the flavour and colour, much less of the sweetness. i think that, if you mix this stuff with cane sugar it'll give you what you want. the right amount for a dubbel is probably in the neighborhood of 6 tablespoons for a 5 gallon batch (along with a pound or so of cane sugar), but take note- i have not tried this much. proceed with an adventurous mindset. as for making caramel, i found a recipe for such in 'the joy of cooking', which was reasonably easy to expedite. and downright tasty! i won't use it for brewing, but it sure makes a nice snack. -bayard Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:58:17 -0500 From: Peter.Perez at smed.com Subject: pronunciation If someone here wants to make some money, write a book of nothing but beer and brewing world related terms, and how to correctly pronounce them. I can't tell you how many times I mispronounced trub and wort when I first started. Then you get into the German and Belgian words... ...forget about it. I have never seen such a book, and I imagine that I am not the only one who would buy one. Pete Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 15:13:55 -0500 From: Andrew Stavrolakis <andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu> Subject: wyeast 1028/cold break question Hi all, Seeking a bit of advice on a couple of questions: First, I brewed an ale last night using wyeast 1028 London Ale. It's the first I've used the yeast. I popped the package Tuesday night, fully swelled by wednesday AM so I pitched into 16 oz 1.020 starter, Thursday AM I pitched that into a full quart starter. Starter at this time smelled great, beery and bready. Thursday 10:30 PM or so pitched the kreusening quart plus starter into the beer. Starter had an evident green apple aroma (acetylaldehyde, no?) Pitched anyway. I believe that this is a normal fermentation byproduct undesirable in high levels. So my question is whether this is a sign that the finished beer will excessively display this characteristic? Assuming (for now) it is not evidence of infection what could be done to minimize it? Is this a normal characteristic of the the yeast? Second, I've noticed on many occasions little break material in the wort after using my immersion chiller to bring it down to around 75F. This in about 20 min. Then, after moving to the carboy and pitching yeast, and shaking vigorously, lo and behold about an hour later we see huge globules of break settling out. How come I didn't see it in the pot? Does the aeration of the wort promote coagulation? Do most of you wait an hour for break to fully form and settle to move to another container for fermentation? This seems to happen with all kinds of different grain bills, but the net result is I always seem to end up with large amounts of break material in my fermenters. BTW, sometimes I use irish moss, sometimes I don't. I'm thinking perhaps I should add it earlier in the boil than the usual last 10 minutes or so. Also, my beers *always* have chill haze. Thoughts? Private email is fine, your choice. Thanks to everyone for answering my questions when I have so little to offer in return! - --Andrew andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:30:38 -0800 (PST) From: "Mark E. Hogenmiller" <hogenmiller at yahoo.com> Subject: Smoked Brown Ale To the Brewing Collective: About a year ago in Phoenix, Arizona I had a brown ale at the Coyote Springs Brewing. This brown ale had a nice faint residual smokiness. This brought on the idea to try to replicate this beer. I have in mind a base of a solid English Brown Ale with some peated smoke malt added to give it this nice smooth smokiness. How much smoked malt is recommended to give it a background of smoke and not end up being a British Rauch Bier. Mark Hogenmiller hogenmiller at yahoo.com Merrimack Valley Brewer exiled in Southern Maryland _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:59:59 -0500 From: "Kelly C. Heflin" <kheflin at lucent.com> Subject: Cold Fermenting I'm doing my first "real Lager" this week. Put it in the fridge right after pitching a very active cold yeast starter. I've got it in the fridge at between 45 & 50 degrees. I bought a fridge controller. The fridge is rarely on due to the outside air temp. I'm worried it could easily get too cold in there. It was down to 43 early this morning inside the fridge. I've heard of using a light bulb to warm up the inside... Any tips on this.. Also the ferment is going very slowly. I suppose this is normal, I've never had any luck at all with cold ferments, but I never tried it with a cold grown starter before. It has a great looking thick foamy head, but the bubbling of the airlock is rather slow. I guess I wont know till I take a sample. kelly Kelly C. Heflin kheflin at lucent.com (732) 957-3055 Room 2B-409 200 Laurel Ave. Middletown, New Jersey 07748 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:41:54 -0600 From: Jeff Pursley <JPursley at Tulsa.E2M.net> Subject: HERMS and RIMS I'm new to the HBD and I love it. After three years of extract brewing I am considering the leap to all-grain. Therefore, I read with great interest the postings about all-grain brewing systems. So, if the many experienced and learned brewers will suffer my ignorance: what is HERMS-RIMS??? Jeff Pursley Brewing in the land of 3.2 Beer Tulsa, Oklahoma Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:57:13 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: Re: Widmer Hefewiezen Yeast I wrote: > >I don't believe this is true. Widmer has been very proud of using > >their Alt strain and keeping it in the bottle. I've cultured from the > >Widmer Hefeweizen bottle, and used it in several brews all with great > >results. > This goes back a couple of years, so they may have changed but I doubt > it. According to Kurt Widmer, they DO add a different yeast to their > Hefe. > > Brett Gober Brett, either you're memory is lapsing, or Kurt has been talking out both sides of his mouth. From the Widmer web page (www.widmer.com), and the words of Kurt Widmer ... "We like the profile created by leaving our Hefeweizen unfiltered and natural. We bottle and keg our Hefeweizen right from the fermentation tank and believe this allows you to taste more of the bier's unique flavors." "Our yeast came from Germany and is a Bavarian Alt bier yeast." "I simply went over there, reviewed my brewing plans with a director (Prof. Dr. Geiger); he recommended one strain plus the strain of Zum Uerige in D|sseldorf. I gave him a check and they sent it by air to Portland." Like I said, I've had great success with this strain, as have many others. It's quickly becoming one of my favorites. -SM- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:09:35 EST From: AKGOURMET at aol.com Subject: Kit Beer Questions Bill Wible asked: >How does one figure out hop usage when using one of these kits? Assuming >you can obtain a bittering measurement in a useable format, do you count >that just as bittering and still add your own flavor/aroma hops? Do you >reduce hop usage all around? >Has anyone used a Brewmaster Stout kit? Any advice? I own a homebrew supply and use up old kits quite frequently. They're great for a quick, easy batch of beer. I have not used the Brewmaster kits, but I'd do it the same as any other. My standard procedure is to use 2 cans (6-8 pounds total), boil for 20-30 minutes, and add aroma hops to the final 5 minutes. I find the bitterness level is adequate with what's in the kit. Light to medium bitterness, I would say, depending on the kit style. However, the boil will drive off aromatics, so additional flavoring/aroma hops are required. I usually use 1 - 1.5 ounces for the last 5-10 minutes of the boil, and sometimes dry hop. Bill Wright Juneau, AK Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:15:33 -0600 From: Brad Plummer <big-wing at jump.net> Subject: Hey Fridge Guy. A quick Hot/Cold question Hi, Forrest (and other refrigeration brewers). A question for you, if you please. Some background: I am ramping up for brewing season. In the past, I lived in Houston where I didn't have to worry about low temps in the garage. I had an old single-door fridge with a Johnson external thermostat. Life was good. I only brewed ales. No sweat. I stopped brewing for a while and then moved to Austin (Texas). I caught the brewing bug again and since I kept all my equipment, I thought it would be an easy re-entry. After several months I plugged the old fridge in and found out it had gone South. It was really ratty and it found a new home at the local dump (legally, of course). I was torn between replacing it with another old refer or going the new, small chest freezer route. Yet I ramble on. Anyway, I bought a new. 7.2-c.f. chest freezer. I plan to build a collar on it to lift the lid so I can get one carboy and two cornies in it (I use cornies for secondary ferments). I installed the Johnson external thermostat and again, all was right in the world. That is until the temps in the Austin area started to dip. Hey, 45F is cold for Texas. :^) I'm getting ready to brew this weekend and the garage chest freezer is showing an internal temp of 65F, and dropping. The Johnson is set at 68 and it had been holding that just great, as long as the outside temp was higher. I was a good boy and searched the archives before posting this. I found some HBDs where you had made some comments on thermostats and even went so far as to recommend the Ranco ETC-111000-000. I went to the Grainger web site and found the thermostat but there is no detailed description. Finally. The Question: Does the ETC thermostat handle two outputs? One for electrical power to the freezer and the other for a heat source? Am I woofing up the wrong tree? What to do? What to do? Please sell me a clue. Do I need two thermostats: One 'Open on rise' and the other 'Close on rise'? What can I use as a heat source? Remember, it is a small cavity. Thanks, in advance. Brad Plummer Georgetown, Texas Brewing, Shooting, and Motorcycling. My wife thinks I have too many hobbies. Funny. So do all my girlfriends. :^) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:53:21 EST From: WayneM38 at aol.com Subject: Plastic Quick Connect Source Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:38:41 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: RE: Pumps and Plumbing Dave writes: <<<Wayne (WayneM38 at aol.com) relates that he uses quick disconnects, norprene high temp hose and braided (I assume again high temp hose).>> Dave: The 3/8 ID braided outlet hoses are thick walled, food grade, rated at 170 degrees. Home Depot at .65/ft. All three hoses are connected to the pump side with hose barbs and ss clamps. The working-side hose ends have the female body connector. All other ball valves/fittings have male insert connectors to save a few $. They are less expensive. (Just a side note, that 3/8 braided hose slips over the smaller tube end of one of those orange carboy caps and makes for minimum wort exposure when pumping cooled wort from brew kettle to carboy. No fruit flies diving into fermentor. Just snap it on the carboy and pump away into the sealed fermentor.) <<First I'd like to ask him to post the specifics of these quick disconnects (where he got them, how much they cost, etc.). >> Connects were purchased from Moving Brews. Check my post, satisfied customer, etc. Sorry don't have their web info at finger tips, but a web search will get you there. Complete connects were approx $14-$18 each. Check web site for price and connector list. Bought pump there too. Owner Bill Stewart was very helpful. I used high temp (250 degree) connectors for the intake and brew kettle, regular temp (170 degree) for all others. They are interchangeable. I selected high temp connects for brew kettle and norprene hose for the pump intake for a few design reasons: I use boiling or near boiling water/ wort to sanitize pump, hose and HERMS coil during my brew day. I enjoy making beer but do not want to compromise safety for a few extra dollars. I waited until budget allowed the high temp connects. Plus it is a hobby. Ever price a graphite fly rod? Second, I see the garden hose variety connectors suggested all the time. I have worked as a horticulturist for the past 20 years and my biggest soakings using watering equipment came from this type of connector popping apart. The RIMS pumps we use only develop about 10 lbs of pressure, but with 200 + degree liquids? Call me chicken.... I don't like them for that application. The final reason for using this type of connector is that it does not clog with grain bits and offers little flow resistance. Air or hydraulic type connectors have an internal shut off design that can trap particles and not close completely and extra parts reduce flow. The plastic quick connectors work great. I can set up my transportable system in a few mins. Fast, easy to clean, have replaceable O ring, don't leak and are made in the good old US of A. You can not buy them at Home Depot so they are 'relatively' expensive. Down side of this type of 'flow through' quick connector is just that. They do not shut off when you disconnect them. A ball valve must be installed when there is any fluid pressure on the other side of connector. Design your system fitting placement accordingly. I brew outside so a few drops on the back walk are not a problem. Ants love wort!! Add these connectors to the '1001 ways to design a RIMS brewing system' book. Wayne Big Fun Brewing Milwaukee Return to table of contents
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