HOMEBREW Digest #2946 Fri 05 February 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  End of St. Pats Thread ("Stanley E. Prevost")
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  Kegging ("Philip Kokoczka")
  Spousal approval - machine gun Kelly (Crispy275)
  Re: beer bullets (Kevin TenBrink)
  More beer bullets (PAUL W HAAF JR)
  Re: Beer Bullets (ctopoleski)
  Re: beer bullets (Joel Plutchak)
  Re:Beer Bullets (Spouses) (smwood)
  Kraeusening and Oxygen ("Alan McKay")
  Oxidation at bottling ("Alan McKay")
  Life Is Good! ("Brian Wurst")
  Ale wife (Vachom)
  Re: Copper in Brewing Equipment (Jeff Renner)
  RE: Bleach shouldn't be acidified (John Wilkinson)
  Pennsylvania "Swankey"? (Mark Warrington)
  oxidation at bottling ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Beer Bullets. (pbabcock)
  Re: beer bullets (Matthew Arnold)
  on rolling the proverbial dice . . . ("Spies, Jay")
  Re. Oxygen in the beer at end of fermentation (Jeffry D Luck)
  Re: Brewing spouses (Tidmarsh Major)
  maximum alcohol, St. Pats and soldering stainless (Eric Dreher)
  Re:Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (Andrew Smith)
  AFCHC (Jonathan Nail)
  RE: Pubs In London ("John Elsworth")
  Re: Momily ("Dana H. Edgell")
  Force Carbonation (Drewmeister)
  foam formation and stand (Dave Sapsis)
  B3 Kettles ("Spies, Jay")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:58:00 -0600 From: "Stanley E. Prevost" <sprevost at ro.com> Subject: End of St. Pats Thread Doug Evans (Vinbrew) defends St. Pats not having a toll-free number. Stan: >Subject: Re: Response to St. Pats >response. Apparently there is an email problem somewhere. I bring this up >only to point out to those having a problem that there may be a technical >glitch somewhere that is not apparent. Things could be resolved a little >easier if she had a toll free number. Doug: How would that help? Quite frankly those 800 numbers are expensive. I've seen St. Pats prices and folks let me tell you, As I am starting my own homebrew business, St. Pats does not have a lot of mark-up on its products. the key to her business is low overhead. an 800 number would add to it. Stan again: It would help by allowing one to have a way to access the supplier when the normal way does not seem to be working. Doug: Is it really going to break you to pick up the phone and pay a dollar or two to resolve a problem? Stan: Maybe not, but if I am trying to resolve a problem which was a mistake on the other end, It shouldn't be my expense. I have a business also, and I understand expenses. I also understand striving to get things right so that I don't incur customer ill will and have to incur expenses to correct mistakes. If there are no penalties for mistakes, there is no improvement. Note: I did not make the original post to bash Lynne, and I don't want it to seem like I am. And Doug, I hope you don't run your business so that it is your customer's responsibility to right your errors, and there will be some. I have been looking forward to patronizing your new business when you get it going. And I intend to continue buying from Lynne also. But there are lots of other shops out there and I will go where it is best for me to go. Regards, Stan Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:21:41 -0600 From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net> Subject: The Jethro Gump Report The Jethro Gump Report >From: "Bonnell, Doug" <DBonnell at BreeceHill.com> >Subject: Materials for Washers and O-rings Buna, Viton, Silicone, Teflon......et al.... These are all common gasket, o-ring, seal materials used in brewing.... at least by me......the other substances, I know nothing about...... Buna seems to be the common offering when buying equipment such as pumps.......(the stats for properties have been previously listed, so I won't bother, you know where to get them)....it works fine...but not as long lasting as ....... Teflon is a high grade performer...except for the fact that all teflon gaskets I have used eventually gather some stains that while easily mobile under a thumbnail, you just can't seem to get rid of....being white, (ass all I have used are) one is continually reminded that there might be a problem coming....I won't buy them anymore.... Viton....love it....and prefer it in all seal applications, like in pumps....high temp and long lasting....it is my preferred substance.... Silicone....my favorite gasket for such as TC clamps, etc.....white in color, and easily stained by iodophor, and other such stuff....it returns to it's original brilliant white after a PBW overnight..... For my money, silicone and viton rule..... >From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net> >Subject: DRY YEAST/Response to Rob Mister Rolfe, I'm happy that what works for you, "works for you." I make no effort to slam any yeast...never have, never will.. I only comment on my own practices, and in the course of doing so, praise Lallemands product, as I have done in these pages of HBD for many years .... But to suggest that ....... >Your post basically gives your slant on the 'touchy subject' >and I think I know where your coming from (as you have a >financial interest in it - as you stated). is uncalled for, Sir....my promotion of their product is a long lived and ongoing fact....research the archives....in fact the work has been done for you.....seek out "Lallemand", "Nottingham", "Dry Yeast," etc as search words in previous searches on the HBD archives..... I praise what works for me.......and will continue to do so.....if I wanted to 'give a slant,' and deny your right to 'know where I'm coming from,' I would not have praised the product in the past, nor would I have disclosed my association..... I apologize for annoying you with any criticism of your comments..... Jethro Gump Rob Moline brewer at isunet.net "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 03:51:03 PST From: "Philip Kokoczka" <philip63 at hotmail.com> Subject: Kegging As a frequent bottler- now trying to becoming a frequent kegger - I have a few questions regarding cornelius kegs (which I picked up for next to nothing): 1. What do you use to lubricate the o rings etc.. on the corny kegs? 2. Is there a source for new beer out tubes for the corny's? (Got a couple of kegs with beat up tubes-had a hard time getting them out to clean because they were all bent up-even a harder time getting them back in). 3. Is there a source where new poppets (the things that the quick disconnects connect to) can be had? (One of the poppet valves on one of my kegs is chipped). Are the poppet threads the same on all corny kegs? 4. Has anyone designed a homemade jockey box that will handle the cooling of beer fron two kegs at the same time? What size (dia. & length) coil did you use? Thanks for your replies. Phil Living in the home of the Jackson Brewing Co. & Original member of the Mug Club. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:53:40 EST From: Crispy275 at aol.com Subject: Spousal approval - machine gun Kelly Scott "Always brew in Plaid" Abene asks "Are there any other brewers out there that are getting positive responses from their spouses. I wonder sometimes, so I just have to ask." He, he, he... My wife does not drink beer and hates the smell of the stuff (particularly when I brewed in the kitchen). About three years ago she and her mother got together and purchased 3 15.5 gallon kegs for me and indicated that I should do whatever it takes to build my brewery in the garage so that the smell wouldn't take over the house. She has her own passion (a horse), and used to look at me with those eyes when she went to the barn for the day, but knowing now that I am probably going to be brewing/kegging/bottling/racking or some other brew related activity, doesn't worry herself about the time HER passion takes. Guess the moral of the story is support your SO's passion (and hopefully that doesn't require both the mall and a credit card, or some guy named Fabio) and give each other the time needed for pursuing these passions. I know this isn't always practical, and sometimes impossible to time together, but for me it works. The other day she was in the basement with me and looked around and stated, "You know, we really should have a wet bar down here." He, he, he... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 05:37:27 -0800 (PST) From: Kevin TenBrink <zzymurgist at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: beer bullets In yesterday's HBD, Scott Abene asked: >>Are there any other brewers out there that are getting positive responses from their spouses. I wonder sometimes, so I just have to ask. C'ya! -Scott "Always brew in Plaid" Abene<<< Not only do I get positive reactions from my spouse, but she is quite willing to help out in the whole process...from mashing to bottling to consuming. If it was not for her, all my beers would be 100 IBU 7-10% ABV monsters. I do consider myself very lucky. Kevin Lansing, MI _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:04:06 -0500 From: PAUL W HAAF JR <haafbrau1 at juno.com> Subject: More beer bullets Here's a twist on the theme. My wife HATES beer, but she doesn't stop me, and that leaves more for me. Even better, she LOVES the smell of the house when I'm brewing. Every few weeks or so, she'll ask me if I plan on brewing soon. How's that for eating my cake and having another in the oven, or is that drinking my beer and having another in the fermenter?! Paul Haaf "Boy meets beer, boy drinks beer, boy meets another beer."- Norm Peterson ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:29:49 -0500 From: ctopoleski at barents.com Subject: Re: Beer Bullets Skotrat writes : "I can't beleive that everyones spouse hates the smell and all... Are there any other brewers out there that are getting positive responses from their spouses. I wonder sometimes, so I just have to ask." My wife grew up in Kent, England and is very familiar with the smell of hops on the vine. She is a big fan of malted milks and the like, so is not bothered by the smell. In fact, if she arrives during the middle of my brewing session, I know she is home by the sound of her "MMmmmmm!" She is not into stout (so these are my private stock), but proclaims that she will try anything that I brew - at least once :-). She is all into my brewing, and while apartment constraints keep me from going all grain, she has suggested that I do a partial mash in the kitchen. She has already given me the go to price out all grain systems and components for when we get a house in the near future. She even hinted that she would like to make the next batch of pale ale with my supervision (remember that she is English and therefore is a hazard in the kitchen). So, I think there are many spouses out there who enjoy us enjoying ourselves. I only get in trouble when I plan four weekends of brewing straight or leave stray carboys/bottles/buckets/miscellaneous crap in our foyer. Cj TwoCat Capitol Homebrewery Washington, DC Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:40:30 -0600 (CST) From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: beer bullets Scott "Skotrat" Abene asks: >Are there any other brewers out there that are getting positive responses >from their spouses. I wonder sometimes, so I just have to ask. I have it fairly good, too. Not only am I the main cook in the family so I don't have a problem getting "her" kitchen dirty, but she only gets irked when I brew too many malty beers in a row-- she's a confirmed hophead. Now, taking too many weekends off to go judging does use up beer bullets fairly quickly... - -- Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu> About a six hour drive south-southwest of Jeff Renner Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 07:51:36 -0700 From: smwood at us.ibm.com Subject: Re:Beer Bullets (Spouses) I too have a spouse that is very much into my homebrewing efforts. Shoot, if it wasn't for her giving me a 'get started' kit for X-mas 3 years ago, I might not have ever taken up the hobby. She loves the smell of malt and hops during brew day and is usually by my side offering a helping hand if needed. And now that I am (finally) getting geared up to start all-grain brewing, she's helping me find the equipment I need at swap-meets or the paper so we can proceed to the next level together. Ok.... thats enough (you get the idea).... this is getting too mushy........ keep brewing! Steve Wood Tucson, AZ. P.S. - this digest is the best daily source of info (IMHO)! Thanks to all (janitors and contributors) for keeping this alive. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 09:56:15 -0500 From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com> Subject: Kraeusening and Oxygen Leslie Michael Patrick asks : My question to all is whether this minute amount of oxygen will cause staling flavours or will the krausen beer quickly absorb this oxygen? The latter. cheers, -Alan - -- Alan McKay Nortel Networks Norstar WinNT 613-765-6843 (ESN 395) amckay at nortelnetworks.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:00:58 -0500 From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com> Subject: Oxidation at bottling Fred L Johnson writes : "However, I question if introduction of a small amount of air into homebrew is really as much of a problem as I've heard lately (even from George De Piro, whom I REALLY hesitate to question)." I'm with you 100% Fred. This is a good example of what Jack Schmidling calls a "momily", or what I see as an example of someone wrongly applying mega-brewer "rules" to the homebrewer. Happens all the time, and even the most respected brewers do it. Even Dave Miller, who was once the king of oxygenation fear-mongering, has since changed his views on the matter to be more in line with what you and I believe. cheers, -Alan - -- Alan McKay Nortel Networks Norstar WinNT 613-765-6843 (ESN 395) amckay at nortelnetworks.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:03:49 -0600 From: "Brian Wurst" <brian at mail.netwave.net> Subject: Life Is Good! ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO sez: >I can't beleive that everyones spouse hates the smell and all. I know that >the time involved in brewing bugs my family from time to time so I started >brewing bigger batch sizes so I would be brewing less often. > >Are there any other brewers out there that are getting positive responses >from their spouses. I wonder sometimes, so I just have to ask. My wife loves the smell and that's all...she's got a celiac disease that prevents her from drinking any beer. Her only complaint is when I brew on weekends (or weeknights) when she and the kids are home, since it takes me away from the family. Luckily, I work at home (and very little at that) so I have lots of time to brew. Happy Trails! Brian Wurst brian at netwave.net Lombard, Illinois "Faced with the choice of changing one's mind, and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everybody gets busy on the proof." -John Kenneth Galbraith Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:12:33 -0600 From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us> Subject: Ale wife Say, Scott, your wife got any sisters? Someone needs to devise a "brew test" for homebrewers to administer to prospective mates BEFORE the wedding--kinda like the Colts test Steve Guttenberg's fiancee has to pass in the movie "Diner." Sure would save a lot of conflict later. Mike New Orleans, LA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:51:33 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Copper in Brewing Equipment "Timmons, Frank" <Frank.Timmons at alliedsignal.com> tells us of catsup tasting different when made in stainless steel rather than copper and: >I once talked to an old brewmaster from Schlitz who swore that the >beer produced in stainless steel is inferior to that produced in copper. I >couldn't believe him then, but maybe he was right. Could be. A similar problem occurred in the bourbon business when all stainless steel column still began to replace the old copper ones. It seems the copper removes some unwanted, bad tasting sulfur compounds. Now, the distilleries with ss stills put scrap copper - old screens, pipes, etc., in them. (_Classic American Whiskies_ by Waymark and Harris, p. 63-64, and _Bourbon_ by Regan & Regan, p. 217-218. No QDA here!) Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:55:53 -0600 From: John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: RE: Bleach shouldn't be acidified Rick Theiner wrote, among other things, in HBD #2945: >1. HOCl (predominently existing at acid pH's) is a strong oxidizer and >quite corrosive. >2. HOCl is easily degraded by organic material-- i.e. soils and >bacteria. At higher pH's there is a "reservoir" to create new HOCl (as >HOCl exists at an equilibrium balance). Thus the HOCl, once >deactivated, will be replenished-- that won't happen if you've forced >the equilibrium all the way over and there's no -OCl left. This makes >contact time vs. concentration a bit more dicey as you're not completely >sure what you're working with. >3. Disinfection is quite complete at higher pH's (with proper contact >time)-- so there's really no reason for an acidified bleach. >4. If you aren't careful, it is dangerous. I can't question the chemistry involved but I wonder at the logic of #2 and #3. HOCL being easily degraded by organic material is mentioned as if that is a problem but then #2 goes on to say that there won't be any left for replenishment if all is converted at the beginning of the process. This implies that HOCL is desireable. What if there is no more replenished if there is a larger amount to start with? Isn't degrading organic material what it is supposed to be doing in the first place? As to #3, shortening the time of disinfection would seem to me to be a plus. Wasn't that one of the objects of acidifying in the first place? As I said, I don't question the chemistry as I am certainly unqualified to do that but I wonder about the other points. What am I missing? John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - john.wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:04:43 -0500 From: Mark Warrington <mark.s.warrington at usa.dupont.com> Subject: Pennsylvania "Swankey"? I was checking out the 1902 brewing text "American Handy Book of the Brewing, Malting and Auxiliary Trades" by Robert Wahl and Max Henius (Second Edition, 1902) which is available online at: http://hubris.engin.umich.edu:8080/Wahl/ I found the following entry under American Specialty Beers on page 779: ********************************************************** PENNSYLVANIA "SWANKEY." This beer has a local reputation in some parts of Pennsylvania, and is still brewed in Allegheny. It may also be classed as a temperence beverage, containing but little alcohol. Its name is probably a corruption of the German "Schwenke." The material employed is malt. Balling of wort, about 7 percent, hops about one-half pound per barrel, and a flavoring condiment like anise seed. The malt is doughed-in at 167 deg. F (60 deg. R.), and the mash held at 154 deg. F (53-1/2 deg. R.) until inverted. The hops are boiled one to two hours, the condiment about 30 minutes. The pitching temperature is about 61 deg. F (12 to 14 deg. R.). The beer is run into puncheons as soon as the Krausen begin to fall, is allowed to spurge out, and is topped up every few hours, until the Balling of beer is about 5, when the beer is racked into trade packages and stored at about 61 to 63 deg. F (12 to 14 deg. R.), until it has raised sufficient life, when the beer is cooled to about 42 to 45 deg. F (5 to 6 deg. R.) and marketed. ************************************************************* Having just recently moved to Pennsylvania this caught my eye! Has anyone any info on this drink? Is it something like Malta, watered down? Is it still brewed by anybody? Has anybody tried to homebrew it? I think I will try to make it this spring just for fun. Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:12:58 -0500 From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com> Subject: oxidation at bottling By the time this gets into the HBD, I suspect there will already be quite a bit of discussion, but I'd like to throw in on this as well: >From Fred Johnson: > However, I question if introduction of a small amount of air into homebrew is really as > much of a problem as I've heard lately (even from George De Piro, whom I REALLY > hesitate to question). With CP filling, it is, of course, quite a concern, but also minimized by the purging of the bottles which is SOP (we're all agreed, right?). But on bottling conditioning, the yeast has to go through the same population building exercise that it did at time of the initial fermentation (when we want oxygen). We need oxygen then because it helps the colony to build new yeast cells properly, so a little oxygen in the bottles (a LITTLE!) should help with bottle conditioning, wouldn't it? Can't wait to see the responses over the next few days... Rick Theiner LOGIC, Inc. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:32:36 -0500 (EST) From: pbabcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com> Subject: Beer Bullets. Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... The lovely Kim, ale-wife to yours truly, *HATES* the smell of brewing. So much so that eshe gave me permission and carte blanche to purchase the pico system which, in recent times, has languished in my brewery unused. Kim loves just about every kind of beer to varying degrees. The hoppier the better, she says. Malty beers and grain-bittered beers are amongst her least favorites, and she has absolutely no tolerance for smoked beers of any sort. She is my partner in our sampling of beers from around the world. And she's a Lambic freak.She loves to bottle, and considers it "quality time" together. (Personally, could do without the bottling, but: hey! Why not?) A series of events at work has prevented my brewing for the last couple of years (for which Phil Wilcox has been known to chide me...). Now, Kim keeps telling me "You WILL brew this year." To top that off, SHE wants to brew a batch or two herself (Hmmmm. Competition for the pico system might become a problem in the future. Will she need to earn beer bullets from her hubby? Hmmm. This could get ugly...) Heck! She's even joined the Fermental Order of Rennaisance Draughtsmen homebrew club, and supported my becoming president this year! PLUS, she complains nary a whimper when I spend hours upon hours at the PC maintaining the Digest, its pages, my pages, and AOL's beer & brewing section. So: Ha! says I! Be jealous! There is none to compare to MY brewing partner! (I feel sorry for some of my brethren for whom beer bullets are not enough. Hell! One guy I know has to earn beer bazooka-shells just to DRINK some...) See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 16:30:23 GMT From: marnold at ez-net.com (Matthew Arnold) Subject: Re: beer bullets On Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:26:46 -0500, you wrote: >I can't beleive that everyones spouse hates the smell and all. I know that >the time involved in brewing bugs my family from time to time so I started >brewing bigger batch sizes so I would be brewing less often. > >Are there any other brewers out there that are getting positive responses >from their spouses. I wonder sometimes, so I just have to ask. My wife is quite supportive of my brewing habit. One boilover I had on the stove was a near-death experience, but other than that I haven't had any problems. Since I went all-grain, I bought a cajun cooker (aka my portable flame-thrower) and boil in the garage so that problem has been eliminated. The funny thing is, she is more mechanically inclined than I am. She built the arbor on which I'm growing EKGs (I guess they're now Oconto Falls Goldings [OFG] but that doesn't have the same ring to it). She's also planning to build a stand for my newly acquired MaltMill out of some spare 2x4s we've got lying around. Most of my fellow homebrew club members are amazed to find out that the beer I "have" to brew for my wife is not a Raspberry Wheat (ack!) but a stout or some similar thick, dark beer. Our only beer conflict is that I'm a hop-head and she prefers the malty styles. Fortunately, I like a good Dunkel or Doppelbock as much as the next guy so everything is swell. As a matter of fact, she requested that some sort of thick, dark beer be ready for consumption after she gives birth to our second assistant brewer on or about May 1. I think I can handle that . . . > -Scott "Always brew in Plaid" Abene . . . she _might_ divorce me if she found me around the brew kettle in a kilt. OK, she wouldn't divorce me, but she might shoot me. Later, Matt - ----- Webmaster, Green Bay Rackers Homebrewers' Club http://www.rackers.org info at rackers.org Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:32:17 -0500 From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> Subject: on rolling the proverbial dice . . . All - In HBD # 2942, Vernon Land wrote: >>>I have violated many "sanitation rules" in my short career as a home brewer and still haven't managed to get an infection.<<< Hmmm. Vern, you gonna get it eventually. If the masses will remember, I was the poster who advocated repitching umpteen times, because I'd never gotten bitten by it. Faithful readers will remember that I just did. My "what's that taste" post in a recent HBD was triggered by an acidic taste whose source I couldn't identify. I finally narrowed it down to a yeast problem. The repitched yeast cake had picked up a stray bug, and it had managed to work its way into the colony, spoiling about 4 batches of beer in the process. I had to dump over 6 cases of IPA and APA gushers. The horror, the horror . . . I'm not advocating extreme anal-retentive surgical glove industrial autoclave pseudo-sterility, but just a little careful attention to sanitation can dramatically reduce your chances of disaster. Dumping your own beer is not among life's little pleasures. Trust me. Personal aside . . . Ray Kruse -- I don't wanna hear about Murphy, pal . . . ;-) Jay Spies Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: 04 Feb 1999 09:30:51 -0700 From: Jeffry D Luck <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com> Subject: Re. Oxygen in the beer at end of fermentation Pete Calinski raised some interesting questions about O2 getting into the beer, mostly related to the property of gasses that causes them to try for equilibrium even across a barrier. (I'm sure there's a fancy scientific name for that but I don't know it off hand.) I think the factor that wasn't considered is time. (QD Alert here...) The O2 and CO2 will balance eventually, but I think the time scale is more like a couple years. This is certainly a concern for us winemakers - I've had my dandelion wine under a fermentation lock now for 16 months. Another factor is that CO2 is heavier than O2, and so in a closed system with both gasses, the O2 will tend to rise to the top. This keeps it, for the most part, off of the wort. Add to that the fact that in happy yeast are putting out lots of CO2. Any O2 that comes into the fermentor would tend to rise to the highest level, i.e. the top of the fermentation lock, and with the CO2 pushing up from the bottom, the O2 would come out of the lock first. There's also a slush factor to consider. In even the most careful environment, a few gazillion O2 molecules are going to come in contact with the wort anyway. Some oxidation of the beer always occurs, but we're trying to keep this to a minimum. Well, that's my $0.02. - -------------- Ok, I tried to refrain, but it's getting ridiculous. Cold water freezes faster. That's all there is to it. Forget the web sites and the scientific mumbo-jumbo and TRY IT YOURSELF! Take two paper cups, label one hot and another cold, fill them with hot and cold tap water and stuff them in the freezer. Then check 'em every 15 minutes. If that doesn't convince you, I have some lakeside property in southern Florida that you may be interested in... great prices.... Sheeesh, some people will believe anything! Jeff Luck Salt Lake City, UT - USA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:02:13 -0600 From: Tidmarsh Major <ctmajor at samford.edu> Subject: Re: Brewing spouses Scott notes his ever-supportive wife and wonders why all the spouses he ever hears about don't like brewing. My wife, too, is wonderfully supportative and even participates from time to time. In fact, starting to homebrew was her idea after tasting a friend's strawberry ale. She doesn't have a great deal of patience for the long full-mash brewday, but she enjoys making extract batches. We split batches between mash and extract, and everyone's happy. We even have half the shelves in our kitchen 'fridge removed to make room for a Corny keg. Tidmarsh 'considering brewing in plaid but still a bit cautious about the implications' Major Birmingham, Alabama PS--Claire really _likes_ the smells of malt and hops. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:47:08 -0600 From: Eric Dreher <ericd at reliantdata.com> Subject: maximum alcohol, St. Pats and soldering stainless I read somewhere that a fermented drink can only produce a maximum of 13-15% alcohol (without the futher distillation or such). I don't know for fact that this is true, but thinking of the strongest beers in the world, they're around that level. But I'm wondering why this could be true. I'm sure there is a good reason, anybody know? A friend said something about a port yeast being able to survive in 20% alcohol so I was guessing that maybe yeast can only take so much of its own excrement :) (Old saying: You can only take so much sh*t ) Secondly, I feel I'm lucky enough to live in Austin where St. Pats is located. Never had any troubles with them and I buy everything there that I can't get from Home Depot. I was thinking the other day how it was good for me that they're here because my Wyeast packets are always damn fresh, usually stamped with a date less than a week old. The other day I smacked two Bohemian Lager packs and they were both bursting at the seams after 3-4 hours. I've read/heard about letting them get 1 inch thick...I've always let then get so that they're almost cylindrical. Pitch into some sterile wort and its bubbling furiously come an hour later. Happy young yeast. Lastly, I've been building my 3-tier setup lately...got a keg, cut off the top and had been struggling with the idea of having a local shop weld my drain or use some bulkhead fittings. I found Eric Schoville's page ( http://home1.gte.net/rschovil/beer/3tier.html ) in which he has Scott Dornseif's tips on soldering stainless. So I thought I'd give it a try (although I seem to have difficulties just soldering copper). Well last night I cut my drain hole and made a perfect tight fit of the copper nipple. Cleaned the seam up nicely and gave it a shot. Got the soldering done in a few minutes and it worked like a charm. So now in my experience, soldering stainless to copper has been easier than copper to copper. So thanks, to these two for this suggestion and tips, as well as everybody who offers their ideas and tips out there. Fins Up! Eric Dreher Austin, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:23:58 -0800 From: asmith at apollo.org (Andrew Smith) Subject: Re:Sierra Nevada Pale Ale Larry O'mahoney ask: "Anyone notice any recent changes in Sierra Nevada Pale Ale? On the plus side it seems to have a little more hoppiness and mouthfeel than in years past. But now it give me a wicked headache. That never happened before!" A friend of mine works for Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. I asked him about the above and in the course of a half-minute conversation, he said that they hadn't changed the hopping rate, but that they're always trying to improve the mouthfeel. As for the hangover, he said, "Well, higher alcohols..." but didn't have anything specific to say about that. Personally I'm rather tired of SNPA, but I visited their brewery a couple of weeks ago and loved the harvest ale and the rauchbeer that they have available in the taproom, among other brews. Apparently, they may be planning to open a new small brewery as an addition to their present setup, where they will brew special, experimental beers. Last week I posted a question, to which I received no response, so I have to assume that it wasn't clear, though Jim Busch partly answered it. It's a general question about brewery yeast, really. The traditional breweries all have their own unique yeasts, which presumably developed initially from wild yeast (I'm talking centuries ago, now) and I'm guessing that they selected yeast from the good batches to repitch. Then Mr. Pasteur came along and told them how to make better selections of yeast, leaving the unwanted bacteria behind, and they continued their yeast strains by repitching and reculturing. Now, homebrewers, brewpubs and microbreweries use these strains which are commercially available for their own brews. My question is: do many microbreweries select develop these yeasts so that they end up with what is their own proprietary yeast? How do they do it? Have any homebrewers done this? I would guess that it's a very skilled area, but there's quite an appeal in a yeast that you've adapted yourself to give good results in your own brewing equipment and with the types of beers that you brew. Any comments on this? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:37:58 -0800 (PST) From: Jonathan Nail <jnail at boom.dvdexpress.com> Subject: AFCHC Anyone know when the next America's Finest City Homebrew Competition is to happen in San Diego? I thought it was in Fe"brew"ary, but I haven't seen or heard anything regarding the competition. Thanks! **Jonathan** Homebrew and Linux, creativity and freedom all in one package! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:39:42 PST From: "John Elsworth" <elsworth at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Pubs In London Just a follow-up to a response to a request for worthwhile pubs to visit in London. When I lived there, my favorite drinking area was West London (eg. Hammersmith to Richmond), although it is not so convenient as the city for most tourists (on the way to Kew Gardens though). If I had to recommend one, "The Dove", which is right on the banks of the Thames on the Hammersmith/Chiswick border, would be high on my list. It serves Fullers, and the brewery is a stone's throw away. I spent many an evening there - and some lunchtimes (Brian, Gavin, Bob, Leighton, Sue - anyone out there!). John Elsworth Hamden, CT ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:44:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Dana H. Edgell" <edgell at cari.net> Subject: Re: Momily js asserts that it is a momily that warm water freezes faster than cold Scott Kaczoroowski asserts it is not and cites a web page with scientific references I will have to disagree with Scott and back the claim that it is a momily based on the following points... 1) The website itself noted that the effect was probably only good when the bucket (or icecube tray) was an insulator and evaporation dominates. Many icecube trays are metal and obviously conduction of heat would be more important in these cases. Thus the momily would be false at least sometimes. 2) The website is for 95C water whereas jack was talking about *warm* water (probably at the temperature that comes out of the "hot" water tap of a kitchen. The mass and thermal losses due to the effects of evaporation will be much less here. 3) The website was discussing buckets of water not ice cubes. As the surface to volume ratio of a bucket is much smaller than an ice cube tray, this too improperly downplays the importance of conduction in freezing *ice cubes*. 4) I had never heard this momily until a couple of years ago from my wife. I immediately tried a simple experiment in our freezer using hot and cold tap water and small plastic containers. The cold water froze first. Just my personal data point. 5) even the website points out these problems with the momily. >Thus experiment and theory agree that hot water freezes faster than cold >for sufficiently high starting >temperatures, if the >cooling is by evaporation. Cooling in a wooden pail or barrel is mostly by >evaporation. In fact, a >wooden bucket of water >starting at 100C would finish freezing in 90% of the time taken by an >equal volume starting at room >temperature. The folklore >on this matter may well have started a century or more ago when wooden >pails were usual. >Considerable heat is transferred >through the sides of metal pails, and evaporation no longer dominates the >cooling, so the belief is >unlikely to have started from >correct observations after metal pails became common. So while the statement "ice cubes freeze faster if you use warm water" might prove correct for near-boiling water in a very large plastic tray, I don't think it is generally true and so must be considered a momily. Beside, if you want small ice cubes, just use less cold water! Does anyone believe that, for the same *finishing* volume, warm water will freeze faster than cold? :-) Dana Edgell - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dana Edgell Staff Scientist edgell at far-tech.com FARTECH, Inc. (619) 455-6655 5820 Miramar Rd., Suite 211 (619) 450-9741 fax San Diego, CA 92121 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:51:45 -0500 From: Drewmeister <drewmstr at erols.com> Subject: Force Carbonation Not to beat this thread to death, but I have had a huge foaming problem of late and want to know what mosat people are doing to force carbonate. I kegged this beer in a 3 gal corny, cranked the pressure up to 40 lbs, rocked it till it quited (sounds like a baby huh??), then put it in the fridge. I took it out cold the next day and rocked it some more until it stopped then put it back. I left the pressure on it for 2 days, the relieved it, dropped the gas pressure to around 15, and served. FOAM, FOAM, and nothing but FOAM. The foam eventually turns into beer. But the beer is nearly flat. IS this due to the highly carbonated beer losing it's CO2 in solution as it drops in pressure going through the gas line (which is rather long). Should I just decrease the length of my gas line, or does something else in the process sound funny??? Foaming in Frederick.... Drewmeister drewmstr at erols.com http://www.erols.com/drewmstr/flyfish.html Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:26:15 -0800 From: Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov> Subject: foam formation and stand Bill Macher ponders whether bubbling N2 through an airstone would give Guinness like foam. It is important to recognize that two separate issues are working: foam formation, and foam stand (i.e., persistence). Foam stand is predicated on the initiion of bubbles. In some cases, simply pouring a highly carbonated beer will create lots of foam by gas breakout from the dissolved CO2. A great example is Duvel. Duvel aslop has excellent foam stand. Foam stand is enhanced by a number of factors (commonly called foam positive agents), where hop resins and certain medium sized proteins are often considered paramount. Other compounds contribute both positively and negatively. A main point in generation of the really chiffon like foam of Guinness is how it is formed. This leads me to Bill's post. While bubbleing the N2 gas into his cup might prroduce lots of foam, it is not similar to the widget in the can, or the draft through a Guinness tap. The widget is full of beer, not gas, but it is under high N2 pressure. Upon opening, it squirts out through the pinhole opeing in the widget. Similar shear forces and resultant gas breakout (hence bubbles) occur as draft is forced through the sparkler disk in Guinness tap. Note: Jeff Renner's ingenious little pocket beer engine -- it likewise forces the beer out through a small hole, creating prodigious foam. N2 is desireable to drive the pressure side, because it avoids overcarbonation. Once the foam is formed, you are at the mercy of the beers component foam postive and negative factors. No doubt the high beta glucan and protein content of the flaked barley used in Guinness mashes helps here. It is also interpesting to note that quantification of foam stand reveals its elusive nature: the ASBC method basically requires standard shaking in a standard vessel, then pouring into a second standard vessel, and measuring the time to foam dissapation. Thus, those interested in that elusive great foam should look at the processes in the tun and kettle affecting foam stand properties, and on dispense issues related to foam formation. Don't forget, clean glass is important as well. Those that suffer from too much foam are encouraged to get bigger glasses and remain patient ;-> cheers, - --dave Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:50:13 -0500 From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> Subject: B3 Kettles All - Patrick Finerty asked about opinions of Beer Beer & More Beer's kettles. Since Santa didn't bring me a shiny new brewpot for Xmas, I'm off on my own search. I spoke with a B3 rep, and they said that the kettles are Italian and have an Easymasher-esque (my language) ball valve / spigot assembly welded to the pot wall. There are no inside threads, and the valve is not removable, so you're pretty much stuck with what you get. They can customize, but that somewhat defeats the purpose of the good price, now don't it ?? Jay Spies Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
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