HOMEBREW Digest #2950 Wed 10 February 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Oxidation and Yeast Autolysis (Nathan Kanous)
  CAP / Millenium Barley Wine / Bullets / Hop Devil (John Varady)
  Help my barleywine has terminated at 1.038 (Ed Choromanski)
  Horse beer (Jeff Renner)
  Re: High Alcohol contents (Jeff Renner)
  re: too cold lagering (Jon Macleod)
  MCAB woes ("Alan McKay")
  More Autolysis / Brettanomyces and livestock ("George De Piro")
  Re: Dispensing from kegs without a CO2 bottle ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Bottler thingies (Bill Graham)
  Dispensing from kegs without a CO2 bottle (Steven Ensley)
  Hot/Cold Break removal (BioCoat)
  My English Mild ("Michael P. Beck")
  candi sugar, horse blanket (B.R. Rolya)
  re: HLT size (Eric Dreher)
  Boston Homebrew Competition and MCAB 2000 qualification (Ken Jucks)
  Oxygen absorbing bottle caps (Eric Dreher)
  Unfortunate Pairings (Paul Ward)
  Y2K Celebration Ale ("Marc Battreall")
  RE: Dispensing from kegs without a CO2 bottle (A question) ("S. Wesley")
  Rodney Morris Circuitry Design Needed ("Mark Ellis")
  RE: Math challenge, Max Heat Transfer. ("S. Wesley")
  Re: odor in beer (Tom Lombardo)
  Re: More Autolysis / Brettanomyces and livestock ("Stephen Alexander")
  Re: Oxidation of bottled beers ("Fred L. Johnson")
  aeration solution (John Herman)
  Autolysis (Nathan Kanous)
  math challenge (Vachom)
  Beer on Yeast (John Varady)
  oxidation, autolysis ("Paul Niebergall")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 08:21:48 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Oxidation and Yeast Autolysis Another thought about oxidation...don't ignore what happens before you bottle. I've got 5 gallons of Kolsch that was transferred to a secondary a little later than I had intended. The secondary was larger than I wanted. As the beer sat in the secondary (which was too large), I couldn't get to it quickly and it sat there...not fermenting at all...for 2 weeks. After 3 weeks in the bottle, the beer is quite oxidized. Not good. Could this have happened during bottling? It could have, but I have had minimal problems with oxidation in the past. Two brews that I can think of, in particular, oxidized when dry hopped with whole flowers, because of the large volume of air within the flowers. It's really made me hesitant to dry hop anymore. ***************************** Yeast autolysis. George, how can I justify leaving my barleywine in a carboy for 3 to 4 months? Or my strong belgian ales, or anything I want to let bulk age for a while? On the flavor of autolysis, harvest some yeast from a primary or secondary using the "sterile distilled water" technique on the Wyeast page (or anywhere else). Store the yeast for 6 months (mine was in the fridge). Open it and pitch it into some fresh wort. The times that I've done this resulted in MAJOR burned rubber aroma and flavors. If I've got to store yeast like this for long periods, I reculture a small bit and step up to avoid the off flavors. Have a great day! nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:26:23 -0500 (EST) From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net> Subject: CAP / Millenium Barley Wine / Bullets / Hop Devil CAP: I made a CAP a couple of weekends ago using 22% dry instant polenta (5.5 pounds). I decided to to a modified cereal mash, and mashed the 5.5 pounds of polenta with 5 lbs of 2 row from 100F up to 154F over 45 mins, rested for 15 mins, and boiled for 45 mins before adding to the main mash. The result was a very compact grain bed. I could only run my pump for a few minutes without setting the bed. Any way, we all know what a stuck mash is like so I'll skip the details, but I tasted the beer last night. It has dropped from 1052 to 1016 and has a very crisp, pleasant corn character. I'll report back when the beer is cleared, lagered, and bottled. Millenium Barley Wines: I, too, make a barley wine as my first batch each year. The first year I did so, I was thinking how great it would be to drink barley wine the next new years eve. Now, I just make it because it's a great way to celebrate the current new year of brewing. I just wanted to say to all the brewers making a "Millenium Barley Wine" to make something else low in alcohol to celebrate with as well. You don't want to be face down on the carpet when double-naught hits from swilling barley wines all night. Bullets: So long as there is porter to drink, my wife is happy and supportive. Otherwise, I hear remarks like 'Another IPA? Why don't you make something I like?'. I just put the finishing touches on a neon studio on the second floor of our garage for her, so my bullet supply is large enough to finish building the brewery on the first floor this spring. As an aside, now that she has her shop, she plans on making custom neon signs for home brewers. So far, she has made one for fellow HBDer Mike Gasman in NE, and myself. Mine reads "Boneyard Brewing Real Ale" and can be seen in the picture on : http://www.netaxs.com/people/vectorsys/varady/index.html HopDevil: Here is a recipe I was using last winter to attempt a HopDevil clone. I basically wanted to start with a big vienna and hop it like all hell. I didn't choose to use all german malts, but if you want to get close to HopDevil, you should definiately start with german malt. I drank this side by side with HopDevil and while I couldn't get the resinous hop character found the HD, I was happy with the malt profile and happy with the overall beer in general. Name: HopBreath O.G.: 1.066 Style: India Pale Ale I.B.U.: 64.9 Volume: 12.5 Gallons A.B.V.: 6.4% Grains/Fermentables Lbs Hops AAU Grams Min Pale, American 2 Row 13.50 Columbus 12.0 65.00 90 Munich, Belgian 11.25 Tettnanger 5.8 35.00 30 Crystal Light, German 2.75 Spalt 3.5 35.00 30 Tettnanger 5.8 35.00 15 Mash at 152F for 90 mins. Spalt 3.5 35.00 15 Tettnanger 5.8 35.00 0 Spalt 3.5 35.00 0 That's all folks, John - -- John Varady http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady Glenside, PA rust1d at usa.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 09:32:43 -0500 From: Ed Choromanski <choroman at voicenet.com> Subject: Help my barleywine has terminated at 1.038 Hi All: I need some assistance/advice regarding my first barleywine. I brewed this baby at the end of Dec and it had an og=1.103. I let it ferment for 1.5 weeks in the primary at 68~70 F (s.g.=1.045 and then transfered to secondary. The secondary went for another 2 week at 65F (1.038). Then I took secondary cold, slowly (3 degrees/day) to about 46F. Last night I took a gravity reading and it was 1.040, the same as when I put the secondary in the fridge. The beer is clear (the clearest I have ever had made) and a good amount of yeast sediment is sitting on the bottom. I used Wyeast London Ale yeast. I was hoping to get the gravity in the 1.018 to 1.024 range but it looks like I am going to add some additional yeast. Any suggestions? I was told that champagne yeast can be added but how do you stop the yeast from lowering the gravity too much (below my desired target)? Can I add more London Ale yeast, or is the alcohol content too much for it? I appreciate you help in this. Regards, Ed Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:32:51 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Horse beer David Houseman <dhousema at cccbi.org> suggested to Crispy: >Perhaps you can combine your wife's hobby with horses and your own brewing >by making Lambics? She just may love that wonderful horsey aroma of >Brettomyces yeast. ;-)) Or skip brewing entirely and use the horse to make American beer. The late Chicago columnist and curmudgeon Mike Royko complained that most American beer tasted as though it had been brewed through a horse. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:22:25 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: High Alcohol contents Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> added more information on high alcohol: >Most common wines in the 20 percent range are fortified. Sherry and >Sake both attain higher alcohol contents up to 20% by using an ability of >the yeast to accomodate. Sherry is made by slowly adding more sugars to >the wine during fermentation. Still more clarification. I've just read the entry on Sherry in Alexis Lichine's _New Encyclopedia of Wines and Spirits_ (1974 ed., OK, not so new, but neither am I) to confirm my recollection that Sherry is fortified, and find that it is except for some for domestic consumption. I can't find anything about the slow addition of more sugars, but that doesn't mean it isn't done. From p. 438 ff: "It is a fortified wine, a wine to which grape brandy is added to bring up the alcoholic content to approximately 15.5% for the Finos and 18% for the Olorosos." ... "When a wine has had its first, tentative classification, it is racked ... tested for alcoholic content, and it this is below strenght, will be slightly fortified with wine brandy - a potential Fino up to about 15%, and Oloroso to about 17% or 18% ... . This addition of brandy definitely separates one style of Sherry from the other." [This suggests to me that these levels may be reached or at least nearly so by fermentation.] ... "Fino is exported at higher alcohol strength to help it travel (18% to 20%, while domestic Fino is 16% to 17%), and this diminishes the bouquet." It goes on to say that through aging, abv in Amontillado and Oloroso may increase from 18% to 24% or 25% [presumably through greater evaporation of water than alcohol through cask walls]. Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion of beer bullets. ;-) Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 09:02:04 -0500 From: marli at bbs2.rmrc.net (Jon Macleod) Subject: re: too cold lagering Good questions Chris. I don't have answers, but have seen fermentation essentially stop around 40F. Sorry, I don't recall the particular lager strain I was using, but has happened on a few occasions. I lager in a particularly cold corner of my basement (walled off). In these cases, after a few weeks, I've moved the beer to a warmer part of the basement to get it back around 50. It fermented fine, though took a LONG time to clear. Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:09:08 -0500 From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com> Subject: MCAB woes Louis, I'd really suggest introducing entry fees. It's nice to have the moral high-ground and all that, but let's get realistic - you need *some* money to run an event like this. I don't think there is anyone among us who wouldn't be happy to pay $5 entry fee, or even $5 if not entering, just to get into the event. By the sounds of things, without fees of some sort, MCAB is doomed. Sorry to be a pessimist ... cheers, -Alan - -- Alan McKay Nortel Networks Norstar WinNT 613-765-6843 (ESN 395) amckay at nortelnetworks.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:53 -0800 From: "George De Piro" <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> Subject: More Autolysis / Brettanomyces and livestock Hi all, Steve responds to my post about autolysis with some of his experiences demonstrating that beer can be kept on the primary yeast for extended periods without autolysis flavors compromising the product. I know from experience that some yeast strains are more forgiving than others. Recently, I made a batch of Imperial Porter, split between two yeasts (Wyeast 1338 and stuff harvested from Deschutes Obsidian Stout). One thing lead to another, and the beer sat on the yeast for 3 weeks. The 1338 was quite autolyzed. The Deschutes was not. More recently, I had a batch of Weizen sit on the primary yeast for 3 weeks. Half the beer was on Wyeast 3068, the other half on yeast from an Austrian brewpub. The 3068 was beginning to pick up autolyzed notes, the Austrian yeast was not. Note, the 3068 beer was not nearly as autolyzed tasting as the aforementioned stout with 1338. All of these beers were stored at about 65F (18.3C) for the entire 3 weeks. I have used a couple of other yeasts that have autolyzed in three weeks' time. I have never had a lager yeast (at cool temperatures) taste autolyzed in three weeks. Steve mentioned that fine Champagne has an autolysis note. He's correct! That is a pleasant way to learn the smell of autolysis. If anybody wants to learn the characteristics of 1338 autolysis first hand, I'll bring some to the MCAB next week and you can decide for yourself if you want to leave your beer on the primary yeast for 3 weeks. I think I know the answer. ---------------------------------------- Dave Houseman writes about the smell of Brettanomyces yeast (typically prominent in Lambic beers and older bottles of Orval, amongst others). He likens the aroma to that of a horse. A while back a friend of mine (who rides horses, lived in Belgium and brews) ranted to me about how Brettanomyces does not smell like horses in the least bit. With this in my mind, I have since paid attention to the smell of horses whenever I have met them. My friend is indeed correct: horses do not smell like any beer I have ever had. Not even close. I will take this even further: After 5 years of working as a volunteer at the Bronx Zoo I can state that I have never smelled ANY animal that made me think, "Who's got the Orval?" I have a theory, which is mine, that Michael Jackson (the beer writer, not the bleach-skinned, squeeky-voiced, mono-gloved pop star) first wrote that Brettanomyces produces horse-like aromas when visiting a Lambic brewery in a less-than-sober state. My guess is that he was biding his time between brewery tours at a barn, petting the horses and enjoying an afternoon restorative. He then made his way to the Lambic brewery and tasted their beers. Confusing the smell on his hand for the smell in his glass, he wrote that the beer was reminiscent of horses. It's stuck ever since. It's just a theory. Have fun! George de Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:20:52 -0500 From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com> Subject: Re: Dispensing from kegs without a CO2 bottle In HBD # 2948 Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> wrote There have been numerous posts lately about trying to dispense from a keg using charge pressure from the carbonating fermentation. <snip> Ideally accumulators have a rubber inflatable body inside and the backside of the accumulator is filled with a pressure of half the working pressure of the accumulator. This might not be necessary and would be difficult to accomplish. My reply: They make expansion tanks for hot water heating systems. They have a built in rubber(?) diaphragm. The nameplate on mine says "EX-TROL expansion tank with diaphragm" It appears to be about 2-3 gal volume. I also appears to have something like a valve on the bottom. I can't see it well because of the location. If it did have a valve on one side of the diaphragm and an inlet on the other (which it does), the inlet could be connected to the keg. Let CO2 accumulate on the keg side of the diaphragm. Pressure relief on the other if needed. As beer is drawn down and pressure decreases, use an air compressor to "pump up" on the valve side of the diaphragm. Just my $0.02. BTW, I may have seen one of these at a Home Depot or Sears Hardware store. Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY 0 Degrees 30.21 Min North, 4 Degrees 05.11 Min. East of Jeff Renner Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:40:14 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Graham <weg at micro-net.net> Subject: Bottler thingies A question for Those Who Bottle - I've spent a fair chunk of change on my brewing setup, but have spent nothing on bottling (except $5 for the old Eveready bottle capper at a garage sale.). I would like to graduate beyond squirting beer into a bottle from a vinyl hose, squeezing it off with thumb and finger when moving to the next. Can anyone recommend a bottle filler? I fill many different sizes, so it would have to account for that. I'm not kegging, so counterpressure doohickies are out. On-line, off-line, it's your call. Thanks - I'll summarize on-line if I get enough responses. Bill - trying to figure out how to convert lead into beer bullets "...the only way to deal with bureaucrats is with stealth and sudden violence." - Butros Butros-Ghali Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:47:48 -0600 (CST) From: Steven Ensley <steve at globaldialog.com> Subject: Dispensing from kegs without a CO2 bottle If you were confident you would not have too much blowoff, or chould buffer it through another corny, how about using the co2 from the next batch to push the current batch out. Another thought I had was throwing a qt of vinegar and a box of baking soda in a corny and use that pressure. Again though you would have to isolate the blowoff somehow.(some chemist better do some calcs first. I suspect the amounts I just tossed out would blow a corny into next week. last thought I had was to develop a bag like they use in party pigs but for use in a corny. You would have to replace the metal tube with one that could be pushed against the side though. this may be a market opportunity. If someone ran with it I would hope they would toss some of the resultant fortune toward the source of the idea ;) . A variation on this idea would be to hook a bag up to the gas in pipe and adapt a regular tire fitting to a gas in fitting then naturally carbonate the beer then when necessary add pressure to the keg using a tire pump or a trip to the gas station. Since the air would be isolated from the beer by the bag you would not have the problem of oxidation Of course the bag would have to be tough enough that it did not puncture to easy I doubt a kitchen trash bag would be adequate but I may be wrong. If anyone tried this I would like to hear how it works. I suppose some tests could be done pushing water then inspecting the bag so that you did not have to risk the life of the beer till the concept was proven. Another benefit to this method would be that depending on the kind of air pump you used, you would have to work for your beer and might reduce that beer belly some. Steve... >Here's a crazy idea. The answer would be a gas accumulator. A second or >even a third EMPTY keg connected to the first to give a large head space >for the gas to accumulate. Ideally accumulators have a rubber inflatable >body inside and the backside of the accumulator is filled with a pressure >of half Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:34:27 EST From: BioCoat at aol.com Subject: Hot/Cold Break removal I usually remove my hot break and cold break using two pots. Unfortunatly, this is very wastfull, I typically lose a gallon this way. Can I just chill my hot wort and remove both breaks at the same time? Will this be as effecient as removing the two in two steps? Thanks Rick Georgette Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 13:37:10 -0800 From: "Michael P. Beck" <stilts at usa.net> Subject: My English Mild I've two questions concerning the English Mild I brewed last weekend. It is essentially a half batch of Papazian's "Cheeks to the Wind Mild" from TNCJOHB with about 6 more oz. of DME added (had it laying around and wanted to get rid of it before it got rocky). Anyways, it seems to be giving off a sulfurous "stench" (as my girlfriend calls it) reminiscent of rotten eggs. Since the Bass clone also have fermenting away also reeks of sulfur, I'm blaming the Danstar London ale yeast I used. Now for the paranoid delusion, will this smell stick with the beer or will it dissipate in a reasonable amount of time? The second question is regarding the Mr. Beer 2.5 gallon "cask" I have my Mild in right now for secondary fermentation. I've got an idea to use the cask condition the stuff right in the "cask" and dispense it through the spigot on the side. What's the collective's ideas on this? I'd hate to bottle the stuff because mild really is a draught ale IMHO. cheers, mikey. BSSC/121 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:10:26 -0500 (EST) From: br at interport.net (B.R. Rolya) Subject: candi sugar, horse blanket This weekend I attempted to make candi sugar (using directions found in the Archives) but wasn't able to darken the sugar beyond a gold color. Any hints for making dark candi sugar? I boiled approximately 2.25 cups of sugar in 1 cup of water. After a half hour of boiling (and very little color change), I got bored with watching the pot and decided that we would brew with light candi sugar (perhaps the adage should be changed to "a watched pot never caramelizes"). ________ Dave Houseman writes: >Perhaps you can combine your wife's hobby with horses and your own brewing >by making Lambics? She just may love that wonderful horsey aroma of >Brettomyces yeast. ;-)) George De Piro neglected to mention that the Best of Brooklyn prize for the Belgian category will be a well-worn horse blanket :) Think of the great cultures you could get off of it! Actually, I've never noticed a lambic character to my horse's blanket (it gets dirty, it gets smelly, but never has a Brett. character). I am able, however, to barter homebrew (Belgian-style or otherwise) for lessons from my trainer. - BR Rolya New York, NY - BR Triage 212-989-4545 800-966-3516 br at interport.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 13:08:34 -0600 From: Eric Dreher <ericd at reliantdata.com> Subject: re: HLT size Dave Hinrichs asks abot HLT size in a 10 gallon brewery: I'd have to agree that it can be done with a 10 gallon (That's what I'm using) especially if its on a burner. I usually heat the mash, then heat the sparge during the mash. I've actually been using ~ 10 gallons of sparge water so I've been heating 6 or so, start to sparge and then add the last 4 gallons to the HLT, heating it as I sparge, but then again I don't sparge as a continuous stream. This allows me to heat the four gallons as I go. Given a choice though, I think I'd use a 15 gallon as part of my plan is to jump to one when possible. Eric Dreher Austin, TX Fins to the left! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:33:35 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Jucks <jucks at firs3.harvard.edu> Subject: Boston Homebrew Competition and MCAB 2000 qualification I am again announcing the Fifth Annual BOSTON HOMEBREW COMPETITION to be held on February 27, 1999 in Boston Mass. This competition is sponsored by and run by the Boston Wort Processors. Entry deadline has been set as the 20th, and must be received by that date. This competition will again be one of the early Qualifying Events for the 2nd year of the Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing (MCAB) that many of y'all have been reading about on this forum so this is your early chance to qualify for the MCAB finals in year 2000. This competition is also part of the New England Homebrewer of the Year series. We draw many Master and National rank BJCP judges to this competition each year! All BJCP categories are too be judged. As a reminder, the MCAB 2000 substyles are as follows: (1) Classic American / Pre-Prohibition (BJCP 1(D)). (2) Czech / Bohemian Pilsner (BJCP 2(A)). (3) Kolsch (BJCP 3(D)). (4) Strong Bitter (BJCP 4(C)). (5) Scotch & Scottish Ales (BJCP 5 (all substyles) & 11(B) (Strong Scotch Ale)) (6) APA (BJCP 6(B)) (7) California Common / Steam Beer (BJCP 6(C)). (8) IPA (BJCP 7) (9) Vienna (BJCP 9(B)) (10) American Brown (BJCP 10(D)) (11) Barleywine (BJCP 11(D)) (12) Imperial Stout (BJCP 11(C)) (13) European Dark Lager (BJCP 12 (all substyles)) (14) Hellesbock/Maibock (BJCP 13(B)) (15) Robust Porter (BJCP 14(A) (16) Sweet Stout (BJCP 15(A)) (17) Strong Belgian & French Ales (BJCP 17 (all substyles)). (18) Lambic (BJCP 18(B)) All of the information anyone needs to enter the competition or to judge in the competition can be found at http://www.wort.org, including entry forms, bottle labels, judge registration forms, dropoff and mail-to info, etc. I encourage all of y'all who are interested in this competition to obtain your information through this channel. For those of y'all who don't have web access, e-mail myself (Ken Jucks, jucks at cfa.harvard.edu) with your e-mail and snail-mail addresses and I will get you the required information ASAP. Thanks and good luck brewing!! Ken Jucks Coordinator for the 1999 Boston Homebrew Competition jucks at cfa.harvard.edu 617-496-7580 (w), 781-276-7985 (h) http://www.wort.org <-- See this site!!! *** Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 13:39:40 -0600 From: Eric Dreher <ericd at reliantdata.com> Subject: Oxygen absorbing bottle caps I've gotten some "oxygen absorbing" bottle caps supposedly to prevent oxidation. It is said that Celis and some others are using them now. It is said that you do not sanitize, even more so, don't even get them wet. I was told to cap and then tilt the bottle just to get the beer to touch the cap and thus "activate" the oxygen absorption. I haven't actually bottled much until recently and I believe I've been producing much better beer than in my past of bottling, so I can't tell if my beer is being *saved* I suppose its a pretty darned easy experiment for me to try. Say, use two types of caps and see what different temperatures and storing times do to the beer? Anybody else used these caps...found them to be worth the dollar extra per gross, not that a dollar is much but it is almost a third more expensive. Eric Dreher Austin, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:20:37 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Ward <paulw at doc.state.vt.us> Subject: Unfortunate Pairings I like beer. A lot! I also like a lot of food. My favorite dining experiences seem to always involve one of Greg Noonan's restaurants - either the 7 Barrell Brewery in West Lebanon, New Hampshire or the Vermont Pub and Brewery in Burlington, VT. Last night I ate at the latter. While waiting for my appetizer I had a pint of hand drawn IPA - very good although not up to what I usually have from their draught system. Might have been the bottom of the cask, I don't know but this was still an enjoyable quaff. I've been spending way too much of my precious free time watching the Food Network on TV and tried pulling a 'David Rosengarten (sp?)' by matching a beer to a food. I was hungry, and adventursome. I ordered the Jamaican jerked chicken. Hmmm,...what to order with it. I could have had another IPA, but I don't get to the big city too often, so I thought I'd try something else. The Silk Ale sounded interesting, but not all that different from the IPA I just had. There was still some of their Fest beer left (or holiday ale, I'm not quite sure) - kinda late in the season for specialties. They had a lambic (Plambic, I guess), but sour is not one of my favorite taste profiles. I have had their red ale before, and it's a very good beer, but it still falls into that pale ale grouping. That left the Chocolate Oatmeal Stout to try. I'm old enough to know all about assumptions, but I still make them anyway. I assumed that a chocolate oatmeal stout would be a sweet stout (hey, chocolate's sweet, my oatmeal is sweet, some stouts are sweet). I shoulda asked. Sweet it was not. It was a very good stout, great mouthfeel, but definitely a strong dark grain profile. This would have been a great beer to sip by a fireplace, or to dawdle over when looking into a lover's eye's. It was NOT the beer to match with jerked chicken. Was I naive to assume a chocolate oatmeal stout would be sweet? Probably. Would it have been a good pairing with the jerked chicken if it was sweet? I dunno. All I know is that there was a definite battle going on between my taste buds and I was the loser. Are there any other beer/food pairing that should be steered away from? Anyone else ever have a gastronomic failure? Enquiring palates want to know. Paul in Vermont paulw at doc.state.vt.us - -- According to government height/weight charts, I'm seven and a half feet tall. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:37:27 -0500 From: "Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net> Subject: Y2K Celebration Ale Hello All, I am planning a simple barley wine (my first btw) using malt extract and some steeped grains. I am almost exclusively an all grain brewer but thought it would be simpler to use extract because I am only making a 2 gallon batch to bring in the new millenium. My question refers mainly to the yeast; I was going to use Danstar's Nottingham Dry (also a first for me) because of what I have read regarding it's alcohol tolerance and it dry taste characteristics. The OG will be about 1.100 and was wondering if a single 5 gram packet will suffice or should I use two for a total of 10 grams? I plan on brewing it this week and then aging it until New Years after the ferment is complete. I have an extensive liquid yeast ranch with 40+ strains available but have heard that the dry yeast's give pretty good results. What are some opinions or suggestions from the gang? Thanks in advance, Marc Have A Hop, Hop, Hoppy Day! ============================ Captain Marc Battreall Backcountry Brewhouse Islamorada, Florida batman at terranova.net captainbrew at hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:45:12 -0500 From: "S. Wesley" <WESLEY at MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Subject: RE: Dispensing from kegs without a CO2 bottle (A question) Having read the janitor's post explaining that KARL thinks I'm an ASS for trying to post with a spamproofed e-mail address I now know why two of my earlier posts on this subject got lost. I still have a question about this idea of trying to save or use CO2 from primary fermentation for use in dispensing beer, so I'll ask it again: Does anyone have information from a reliable resource which discusses the impact of pressure on fermentation? Specifically, Is there a point at which the fermatation activity of yeast will be significantly impacted due to increased pressure, and if so when? I have heard that this supposed effect is one of the reasons the yeast in naturally carbonated soda does not ferment all the sugar in the soda and produce alcoholic soda (I realize most people chill the soda after a few days). This effect is one of the reasons I suggested trying to dispense by fermenting a few quarts in a second soda keg to produce CO2 and feeding periodically through the dip tube. Regards, Simon Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:05:55 +1100 From: "Mark Ellis" <mellis at gribbles.com.au> Subject: Rodney Morris Circuitry Design Needed Hi All, Could one of you kind soul assist me in locating a copy of the original Rodney Morris RIMS circuit design etc etc. I am looking to work from the ground up and my brother-in-law is a very enthusiastic electrician. Thank you all very much. Regards Mark Ellis Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 06:34:13 -0500 From: "S. Wesley" <WESLEY at MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Subject: RE: Math challenge, Max Heat Transfer. Dear Rod, A few years back I spent some time fooling around with the equations for a counterflow chiller. I was able to come up with a model which worked passably well, but unless your calculus (differential equation solving) skills are in good shape you are probably better off trying working this one out through experiment. If your goal is to maximize the rate of heat transfer there are three critical issues for the type system you describe. They all center on preventing the concentration of cooler water around the coil which in turn reduces the efficiency of heat transfer. It is possible to show mathematically that this effect is much more important than say reduced conduction because of thicker walls, or using a material which doesn't conduct heat quite as well as copper. 1) Good circulation of hot water in the HLT. 2) Turbulent flow of water through the coil 3) Good circulation ot the mash around the coil in the mash tun. It is amazing how important the turbulence is. (you should be fine with the flow rate you describe.) I find that my CFC chiller is most efficient when it is running flat out. (I chill 18 gal of beer to 68F in 10 min using about 45 gallons of 53F water) The efficiency drops significantly if I try to run it a lot slower. One other comment. Have you measured the flow rate that your pump can provide through a long thin tube? I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out why a pump rated at 5.0 GPM was putting out less than half that. I finally came to the conclusion that it was the 50' of 1/2" tubing under open discharge. Your situation will be different since you are recirculating. Hope this helps, Simon Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 05:30:10 -0600 From: toml at ednet.rvc.cc.il.us (Tom Lombardo) Subject: Re: odor in beer Marc Hering writes: >Subject: odor in beer? > >Greetings Homebrew gurus, > >I am having a bit of a wierd problem that noone I have asked can seem to >figure out, >my last batch was a strawberry ale (kind of a mishmash brew,,,mostly using >up things I had left over) and while it tastes just fine, (hint of >strawberry but not too overpowering) it has a really bad odor.I used >Dextrine malt and 2 row barley. Light Drymalt Extract, Cascade and Saaz >Hops. I threw 6 lbs of fresh strawberrys into my secondary fermenter >(after >heating them to 150 for about 10 min or so then letting them cool down) >and >I used about a cup and a half of dry malt extract instead of botteling >sugar. >I am still trying to learn and I will admit that there are things that I >probably should know but don't. Can anyone point me in the right >direction? >or at least tell me what I did wrong? I've noticed that Saaz hops have a distinctive "aroma" that some might call an "odor". I brewed 3 "pilsner-style ales" (I don't yet have a lagering fridge), and in all 3 cases I thought I had an infection. I brought it to my HB supply shop and the owner said, "No, that's the hops". Later I tried a Pilsner Urquell (from a freshly tapped keg, not a green bottle), and there it was again. Personally, I'm not fond of it. One man's aroma is another man's odor, I guess. Tom in Rockford IL (100 miles NW of Al K. - I thought we needed a new reference point.) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 06:53:52 -0500 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: More Autolysis / Brettanomyces and livestock George De Piro responds that I respond that he .... >The 1338 was quite autolyzed. The Deschutes was not. This doesn't entirely surprise me. I've had a remarkable number of problems with WY1338 recently that defy explanation, perhaps autolysis is a part. Under the proper conditions a very nice yeast, but in my experience - finicky. I think the kernel to carry away is that if you are expecting autolysis aroma to always be reminiscent of a set of Goodyear GTX's you should be very surprised that it may sometimes smell more like a toasty Moet & Chandon Brut Imperial. Loss of head is an early sign of autolysis to watch for. > Brettanomyces yeast [...] He likens the aroma to that of a horse. [...] > I have a theory, which is mine, that Michael Jackson [...] > Confusing the smell on his > hand for the smell in his glass, he wrote that the beer was > reminiscent of horses. It's stuck ever since. It's just a theory Wine writers sometimes refer to the smell of brett as 'horsey', but also 'barnyard', 'leather' and most often 'earthy'. I don't think any of these are a 'ringer' of a description, but I too have a theory which is mine. Horses working hard will sweat considerably and the saddle pad and will soak through. The combination of the earthy smell of dusty paddock or barn, acrid butyric sweat and wet leather aroma does for me have some association with brett (among other things) - still it's not a common experience for most people today and aroma/flavor associations should be accessible. Somewhere I saw that M.Jackson described the aroma of CO2 as "vegetal". Can anyone explain this ? I don't get vegetal from CO2. S- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 07:34:49 -0500 From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Oxidation of bottled beers In a recent thread, we have been discussing the liklihood of air introduced at bottling oxidizing our homebrew, especially with some discussion of the potential (or lack therof) of yeast to prevent oxidation. Much thanks to George De Piro and Steve Alexander for adding to this discussion. As a tangent to that discussion and independently, the issue of yeast autolysis has also come up, and George again has contributed to our understanding of this, warning us of off flavors that can easily be contributed by autolyzed yeast from the primary in a few weeks time. I have a question, especially to George since he seems to have some first-hand knowledge of this: How is storage on the cake of yeast in the primary any different than storage on the cake in the secondary or in the bottle? And if yeast autolysis is such a problem, how can one produce a decent bottle-conditioned beer, such as a barleywine or any other big beer, that is supposed to REQUIRE some aging to produce its characteristic flavors? - -- Fred L. Johnson Apex, North Carolina USA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 08:18:28 -0500 From: John Herman <johnvic at earthlink.net> Subject: aeration solution I figured out a solution to my air pump foaming problem. What I did on Sunday was transfer the cooled wort to a bottling bucket through a strainer. I did my aeration, since a bucket has more headspace, foaming was less of an issue. When the foam did get high, I knocked it down with a santized spoon. After the prescribed aeration I pitched the yeast and aerated for another hour. I kept the wort covered and kept my spoon in a bleach solution. JH Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 08:16:52 -0500 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Autolysis I posted regarding George DiPiro's comments on oxidation / yeast autolysis and said: > You ask: "Yeast autolysis. George, how can I justify leaving my > barleywine in a carboy for 3 to 4 months? Or my strong belgian ales, > or anything I want to let bulk age for a while?" George said: > You store beer 3-4 months in the primary?!? I inadvertently left people with the impression that I left beer in the primary for 3 to 4 months. NO, I DON'T. It was in the secondary. George indicated that in a secondary, it is more like a giant bottle. Once you've gotten the beer off the "spent" yeast and cold break, etc. it is safe to bulk age the beer. It's that huge yeast cake and "gunk" that is a problem. Secondary aging is fine. Also, I mentioned the use of a carboy for secondary with too much headspace leading to oxidation. This is why many HBD posters prefer to secondary in corny kegs. Purge with CO2 and no risk. I think I'll look for some more cornies...don't cost that much different from carboys. nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:27:40 -0600 From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us> Subject: math challenge The ten foot coil will reach Chicago roughly 15 nanoseconds before the sparge tank where it will promptly sign a one-year contract with the Cubs who figure the coil's got a better shot at throwing runners out than Scott Servais. Mike New Orleans, LA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:53:15 -0500 (EST) From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net> Subject: Beer on Yeast Steve asks: >Anyone else care to comment on whether they do or do-not detect flavor >problems from keeping beer on yeast beyond 3 weeks ? I often leave my beer on the yeast for 3-6 weeks before bottling, skipping a secondary vessel entirely. I find that I get clean, clear beer that carbonates within 2 weeks and has very little bottle sediment. I have never noticed any "meaty" or "rubbery" aromas from this practice and would certainly discontinue it if I did. My '99 barley wine will likely remain on it's yeast bed for 2 months (although it was racked once after fermentation completed) and I don't anticipate problems. Later, John - -- John Varady http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady Boneyard Brewing The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program Glenside, PA rust1d at usa.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 09:06:06 -0600 From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: oxidation, autolysis Greetings; Peter Calinski writes about oxygen invasion theory: >Here is a mind game....{snip}. therefore, the concentration of O2 in the >wort in the fermentor will be the same as if the wort were open to the air. >Where have I gone wrong? A couple of things to keep in mind: Brewing beer is not at equilibrium. CO2 bubbles forming in the beer agitate the beer and help keep O2 from going into solution. the flow of CO2 out of the airlock forms a convection current directed out of the fermentor. I don't think that partial pressure theory applies under these circumstances. I don't have references to back me up, but here goes anyway. Over the last 15 years I have bottled over 2000 bottles of beer (VERY conservative estimate). Everything I have ever brewed has been bottled. I have never purged my carboys, bottle bucket, or bottles with CO2. Initially, I used a cheap bottling wand that splashed around quite a bit. then a few years back I bought a Phil's Philler (that's right, the one that actually INJECTS air through a tiny hole located near the input end). Guess what? With only one or two minor exceptions, my beers never show any signs of oxidation. I have several barley wines at different ages. One batch is 4 years, 5 months old at this posting. Only now is it starting to pick up the slightest hint of a sherry-like aroma and flavor. Definitely oxidation starting to kick in. Actually, assuming is doesn't get too bad, it almost enhances the flavor. I guess this means that I have crossed the street over 2000 times without looking and have not got hit - must by an alley or a residential side street. One caveat: Most of my beers are stored at relatively cool cellar temperatures and they consumed within about 12 to 18 months. Oh, and please do not write me about my inferior taste buds. As I am sure even George DP would agree, off-flavors due to oxidation are some of the easiest defects to identify. Steve Alexander writes about yeast autolysis, or his lack of observing yeast autolysis. I couldn't agree more. I used to worry and rack all my beers to a secondary fermentor. Now, with the exception of a few previously mentioned barley wines, I rarely if ever do. Most of my beers sit in the primary fermentor until they are ready to bottle. And due to my busy schedule, sometimes the primary fermentation stage is prolonged to six weeks or more. Six weeks in a primary fermentor on the original yeast cake?? Recipe for autolysis?? Nope, I have never detected any off flavors that I would attribute to autolysis. I guess I found yet another side street Brew On, Paul Niebergall Return to table of contents
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