HOMEBREW Digest #2983 Sat 20 March 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Beer Judges/Competitions ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Cleaning Carboys and the death of home brewing. (Rod Prather)
  Poor Extraction (Jack Schmidling)
  Re: Supporting Local HB Shops?  Do or Don't? (Scott Abene)
  leaving the backdoor, but entering the maibock ("Marc Sedam")
  Lallemand Lag Times (Eric Schoville)
  Re: backdoor dealings (Spencer W Thomas)
  Homebrew Supply Market adnausia ("Donald D. Lake")
  Torrified Wheat: to crush or not? (darrell.leavitt)
  Lager Pitching Temp Compilation (Troy Hager)
  Re: Nottingham Lag Times/Proper use of Dry Yeast ("Philip J Wilcox")
  homebrewing's future (Vachom)
  Garetz ibu formula ("Drew Avis")
  Roots ("Don Glass")
  Demise thread continued. (BsmntBrewr)
  Oud Bruin Netherlands (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Steamy RIMS? (Joy Hansen)
  Chiller Pumps. ("S. Wesley")
  Isolate of Yeast (Tom Franklin)
  Nottingham and sediment on sides of bottles (Matthew Comstock)
  Response to pump question ("George De Piro")
  autoclaving bottles ("Marc Sedam")

Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild's 13th annual Big and Huge - 28 March 1999: Rules and forms at www.globaldialog.com/madbrewers Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow" Back issues are available via: HTML from... http://hbd.org Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer. COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...) JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:09:49 -0500 From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com> Subject: Beer Judges/Competitions Paul Dey mentions variability in competitions, and I'd like to add my own thoughts to his. When getting your score sheets back, take what the judges say and compare it to your own thoughts-- judges are certainly fallible. One thing to think about when you are unhappy with your numerical score, though-- these are subjective, not absolute (regardless of what that chart in the lower left corner says). If you have a beer in a flight of fabulous beers, you'll probably score lower than if your beer is in a flight where every other bottle is infected. When I judge, the first beer almost invariably hits the high 20's unless it is significantly flawed. I don't do that on purpose, it's just that my senses are acclimating. From there, every beer gets judged against the previous beer. Is this one better or worse than the one I just had? And the numerical score will reflect that. That's why, at the end of the flight, the top 3 or for beers are re-examined to insure consistency. We're human, and our taste buds aren't perfect. And, finally, different judges pick up different things. I used to really have a hard time getting DMS-- I just wasn't used to picking it up. Then I met a guy who never missed it-- in fact would claim he could get a little in a beer that I thought was squeeky clean. Some folks have different sensitivities. Just my $0.02. Rick Theiner LOGIC, Inc. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:06:19 -0500 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: Cleaning Carboys and the death of home brewing. On cleaning carboys.... One little trick I use for scrubbing the inside of a carboy. Carboy brushes are quite deficient on the end and you quickly end up scrubbing with the wire tip. Take a cloth or a strip of one of those green scrubber pads and attach it to the end with a wire tie. A tie wrap would be ok too but the cloth needs to be removed for cleaning of the brush. It works great and you don't take the chance of scratching the inside of the bottle. On the demise of home brewing..... Most home brewers started because they found it slightly cheaper to brew their own beer. They preferred the higher quality import and now microbrewery beers to the American domestics. They progressed to all grain because it is cheaper still, once the equipment is paid for. Sure some of us just start because it is interesting. Most began because it was a cheap (or cheaper) drunk and then found the true joy in designing your own beers, researching brew history, etc. Still, if the price of a 5 gallon carboy of beer was nearing $50, the price of two cases of an average import or micro brew, it is doubtful that any of us would be here in the first place and even more doubtful that we would stay. In grain, yeast and adjuncts, it costs around $25 to $30 to brew extract in 5 gallon batches. About 2/3 that or less to brew all grain. It is the cost of a good beer that attracts us initially. Although the joy of brewing is a driving force, if the cost of homebrew was near the cost of store bought, Home Brewing would no longer be a consideration for 90% of us. It is up to the brewshops, the distributors and the manufacturers to keep Home Brewing as a viable hobby. The more desirable it is cost wise, the more new brewers we will attract. For the brew shops, get on line or die. The limited market except in high population areas demands that you increase volume. The internet is the only way to do that. Sure, homebrewing is fun but I think I'll have a (cost effective) beer. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:38:43 -0800 From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> Subject: Poor Extraction Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> "I can't ever recall deciding that the commercially produced malt produced a poor extraction because it was "old or stale." That makes sense as the starch content is not going to change with age. The enzyme level will change with age but it would have to drop dramatically to effect the conversion rate with most modern base malts. "How much moisture can a grain have to effect extraction enough to measure? The obvious answer is any amount will effect extraction "measurement". Since we determine the amount of malt by weighing it, the extraction rate is inversely proportional to the amount of moisture. A 1% change in moisture will produce a 1% change in extraction determination. Between humid summers and dry winters, the moisture content of grain can change by as much as 20%. This puts a severe limit on the ability to even determine what extraction is on a casual basis. I put measurement in quotes because moisture has no effect on the real extraction rate, just our ability to measure it accurately. "If you suspect a problem with your grain, there is a test that you can perform.,.... Your experiment is fun and a good experience but it also happens to be the way I determined that the crush has not much to do with anything when making small batches. It also ignores the moisture content of the malt as a variable as described above. It is "easy" to determine the moisture content of malt. Weigh a sample and then nuke it till it stops losing weight. The difference between bone dry weight and the original weight, divided by the BD weight is the moisture content. "Again, it has been my experiance that the larger portion of the poor extraction problems comes from under milling. Rapid or poor lautering techniques are a distant second. Not sure what "under milling" is but in my experiments, I found the best extraction was with a Corona set to make flour. It was in fact, the only crush that was measurably different. Funny how great minds can not agree on something so simple. For some anecdoatl experience, I was never able to achieve extraction above the mid 20's no matter what I did until I change to DC Belgin malt. It immediately went to the low 30's and has never changed in 5 years. What does this say? It's in the malt folks. Finally, a lecture again. CONVERSION is the ability of the mashing system, process and raw materials to convert starch into sugar. EXTRACTION is the ability of the lautering system and process to get the sugar out of the mash. It is a common error to use the two terms interchangeably. They are two different process and BOTH must be under control to maximize what we really mean.... YIELD. js - -- Visit our WEB pages: http://user.mc.net/arf ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:40:28 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Abene <skotrat at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Supporting Local HB Shops? Do or Don't? Hi all, In some ways I think that many of the local Chicago HB shops have wriiten their own ticket as far as closing because of business pratices and leaching the Homebrewer for every red cent they could grab from them by jacking prices because of a "sellers market". Many of them seem like they could care less about your measley $50 purchase and will not go out of their way to get you items that may be a little harder to come by than "in stock" items. I will not buy many things from the local shops because their prices are so inflated (like 300%+ on kegging and tapping parts that you can buy direct from companies like BANNER EQUIP.). So as a consumer I go elsewhere for the better product service and price. Speaking of consumers... The consumer does not have to buy from any local shop. If there is only one Home Brew shop in a 50 mile radius and they are not that great why should I or anyone else have to buy from them??? It is a "Free Market" and every consumer has a right to buy wherever the hell they want to buy... Locally or on the web. Looking at the web sources for Home Brewing gear just seems like the same as the local shops... There are good one and bad ones. Good deals and bad deals. I personally am going to go to whoever gives me the best possible deal on what I need. But for me there is a catch. I have a local Home Brew shop that I support in the Chicago area (I won't plug it but it is on Rte. 83 and North Ave.) that I use often and always give first shot on things I need. The owner knows that I buy a lot, that I spend money and that I will come back. He goes out of his way to make sure I am happy with his bulk prices and that I return for more spending. That is a good business man and a good business practice. I refer as many people as I can to his store because he is a great guy to deal with. He has the attitude that if I ask for it, he will do his best to get it to me on a timely basis and at a very competitive price. Again, good business practice. He wants my business, he wants me to come back. I would be very upset if he went out of business (I think he has been there for 20 years now). All of us as brewers need to support our local shops that support us. I think a Local Homebrew shop simply cannot be everything for this brewer. I buy what I can from my local and outsource the rest from other sources (you can not get a pound of hops from most local HB shops for instance). My local guy understands that he can not give me "Hoptech" prices on leaf hops. but he has stepped up his Leaf hops and lowered some prices on them to make sure others keep buying. That is what you are supposed to do as a HB shop owner. Be competitive and watch the market and change to fit it as time goes by. I guess my point is; Give your local shop first shot at what you need and if they can't get it or beat others prices then let them know. Don't just stop using them. The insight you as a brewer and consumer give them may just help them to give you a deal, sell some supplies and stay in business. C'ya! -Scott "PLAID PLAID PLAID" Abene === ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT Scott Abene <skotrat at mediaone.net> http://skotrat.dynip.com/skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) "The More I know About Cathy Ewing, The More The AHA SUCKS" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:43:02 -0500 From: "Marc Sedam" <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: leaving the backdoor, but entering the maibock Hi Pat: Two clarifications: (1) I didn't intend to insinuate that the HBD was suggesting people head out to their local brewery/pub to buy grain. I was, however, surprised at the number of people who seemed to think the practice was just fine. I've read many of the posts and find the Digest to be full of reasoned and interesting discussions. Where is the FAQ, anyway? (2) The assumption that was never elucidated on either side of the discussion was that the "back door" buyers never asked the local shops to organize a group buy. We have never been approached by the clubs to do these bulk orders--had we been asked we'd be more than happy to set up a special deal and accommodate needs. This is one area where better communication benefits everyone--before the next trip to the brewery, ASK your local shop if you can arrange bulk orders or pre-buy as Dan Listerman suggests (a wonderful idea, by the way). On the other hand, the shops (I know you're out there) can be more pro-active in offering these services before it becomes an issue. We do offer more than just homebrewing supplies for sale (cigars and...high-end audio), and that's a concept that will help others survive. Lord knows I've been in crappy shops--although I've never seen a $35 carboy!!!. I was in a shop in NJ that kept their leaf hops in cookie jars on the store shelf; great for lambics but not much else. That being said, if the shop is competent and helped nurture your hobby you should help nurture the shop too. Touchy-feely, I know. I've put more than my 2 cents in on the topic and I'll cease now. Now that that's done (from me at least), I'm looking for a good recipe for maibock. I can't find Richman's book anywhere, and I knew there was a recipe in there. I've got the basics down (OG- 1.065, low to moderate IBUs) but I'm looking for any nuances to make it exceptional. I'm doing a no-sparge, dual beer session (one maibock, one German pilsener). Any suggestions or recipes that worked are appreciated. Marc Sedam UNC-Chapel Hill Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:43:57 -0600 From: Eric Schoville <eschovil at us.oracle.com> Subject: Lallemand Lag Times All, Has anyone used any of the Manchester dried yeast that was available at the MCAB? I used four packets of it in my last batch, and fermentation did not begin for two days, so I added a couple of the packets of the London yeast, and it started within a couple of hours. I have a suspicion that the Manchester yeast is not viable. I did rehydrate in 104 degree F water before pitching. Eric Schoville Flower Mound, TX http://home1.gte.net/rschovil/beer/3tier.html Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:08:58 -0500 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: backdoor dealings >>>>> "sedam" == sedam <sedam at bellsouth.net> writes: sedam> whining...it's real life business. How do you think a sedam> restaurant would do if you could bring your own ingredients sedam> and just have them cook it? Wrong analogy. We're not bringing ingredients into your shop to brew beer. The right one is: How do you think a grocery store would do if a bunch of consumers banded together and bought food directly from the producers and wholesalers? This happens all the time. They're called "buying coops." What the consumer loses in the deal is convenience. You have to actually plan ahead. IF we had a local HB shop that would coordinate bulk buys for us, we wouldn't have to do it ourselves. But we don't. The two local "shops" are both sections within larger "beer and wine" stores. Even if the buyer for the homebrew section wanted to do it, his store management won't go for it. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:48:53 -0500 From: "Donald D. Lake" <dake at gdi.net> Subject: Homebrew Supply Market adnausia I can't take it anymore.....all this whining about the alleged demise of the local homebrew shops. Homebrew shops are failing for two simple reasons. 1.) Darwinism. Everyone survives in the boom times, even poorly-run businesses. True successful businesses (actually businessmen) always find a way to maintain and increase market share. Others do not keep up with changing conditions because they lack business acumen and are unable to do things differently. If you study history, you will find that free markets are quite efficient and will effectively weed out the weak (for the better in the long run). No, there won't be a lack of supplies and no, prices will not go up. 2.) Lack of industry organization. The homebrew industry is in the infancy stage of the business life cycle. It has not yet developed real leadership, marketing, or membership. Mature industries have strong associations. In my personal industry (investment advising) we have a very strong organization for dealers (National Association of Securities Dealers), however, it has not made my business any less competitive. The same rules of #1 apply to us as well. Many advisors have left my industry saying it's too competitive and it's harder to make a living than it used to be. I'm sure almost everyone can say the same about their own job/business/industry If I had to assign a quantity to the two reasons, I would guess that 90% of the problem can be attributed to #1 and only 10% to #2. With that being said, I feel confident that there will continue to be a good homebrew store for me in Orlando, if only because they seem to be good businessmen. Don Lake, VP Registered Principal American Municipal Securities, Inc. dlake at amuni.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:02:50 -0500 (EST) From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu Subject: Torrified Wheat: to crush or not? I have heard that Torrified Wheat is good for head retention. Should it be crushed? I have thought not, in that it has no shell/ husk. ...Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:41:24 -0800 From: Troy Hager <thager at bsd.k12.ca.us> Subject: Lager Pitching Temp Compilation HBDers, A few weeks ago I asked some questions about chilling, pitching temps, and lag times with lagers. I received many responses and here is a rundown of what people said: _______________________________ First question: > Noonan suggests, "Where practical, it is advisable to separate the > chilled wort from the cold break in a settling tank." p.170 > > Q: How many of you find this "practical" and do it? Some said they usually do rack off the break material and felt better about pitching the yeast into "cleaner wort." Some said they always rack off trub when pitching directly on a yeast cake (from a previous beer). Some said that it is a good idea but only makes a minor difference. Don't sweat it... One person mentioned that they ferment in a conical and have drawn off the break material after settling but have gotten so little that the effect of doing so seems small. He also mentioned that there may be some reasons to let it sit on the break material during fermentation... _______________________________________ My other questions had to do with chilling: > Q: Do I pitch the yeast at 60F and then throw it in the fridge to drop the > temp? Or do I drop the temp in the fridge first and then pitch the >yeast. (The > danger here is obviously longer lag times - as we all know, one of the > major causes of bad beer.) All noted the need to pitch a huge amount of yeast (suggestions ran from a 0.5 gal up to a 2 gal starter!). _________________ Pitch and Drop Camp: Some felt that it was ok to pitch high (60F) and let drop in the fridge to proper temps - feeling that the only time the yeast produce fusel/diacetyl was during fermentation (which directly opposes what Noonan says...) That it was only important to get it down low for the fermentation- that it was not so important for the lag time. __________________ Drop and Pitch Camp: Some said they always drop the temp overnight and then pitch the yeast in the morning. They make sure to be *very careful* with sanitization and have had few problems with infected beers because of longer lag times. Some thought that the longer lag times were not to be worried about, and if I can quote one brewer: "It isn't the lag time that is the problem. The problem is wort spoiling bacteria reproducing in your wort. Cold temperatures will slow their reproductive rate to a level where they will not (in my experience) harm the beer flavor." Some thought it was very important to pitch the yeast at the proper temperature and never pitch over 50F. The thought is that since this is lager yeast, even a short time at warm temps might be detrimental to the finished beer flavor. That the first hours of yeast growth are indeed very critical. People in this camp also worried about problems with a quick temp drop - feeling that shocking the yeast with a drop of 10-15 degrees during a short period of time is detrimental to their viability. Along with this line of thinking is the necessity of keeping the starter(s) at the proper temps as well. There were a few that chill down to the pitching temp by recirculating ice water through the chiller using a pump and a cold liquor tank. This method shortens the lag times and gets you down into the proper temps to pitch the yeast right away. One person also suggested to put a stirrer in the kettle while chilling to reduce chilling times. _______________________ So, that is the gist of it. Thank you all for your suggestions!!! Happy lagering! -Troy Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:00:59 -0500 From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> Subject: Re: Nottingham Lag Times/Proper use of Dry Yeast From: Philip J Wilcox at CMS on 03/18/99 05:00 PM On the 500 gm bricks of Danstar/Lallemand's Windsor and Nottingham yeast one can clearly read the brewpub/brewery recommendation of 60 grams per barrel. This equates to roughly 10 grams per 5 gallons. A standard packet is only 7 grams? Why? I don't know. But, if you are like Ken Swartz (whom I'm sure only did that the one time ; ) and thousands of other homebrewers and only pitch one packet on a 5 gal batch you are under pitching. This 10 gram figure has been confirmed not only by our own beloved Jethro Gump, but also the very highly esteemed Lallemand yeast guru Clayton Cone, who spoke at the MCAB. 70% of the ideal pitch rate is not horrible, we all know that it will work, but when combined with A. not aerating, B. not hydrating/temperating the yeast, and C. not having enough nutrition in the wort you get long estery lag times. The local brewpub uses 2 of these 500 gram bricks per 15 bbl batch which figures to 66 grams per barrel. 110% of the suggested pitching rate. Without any in-line aeration they get an active kickoff in 2-4 hours. The variation seems mostly to be from 1. Which beer they are making 2. The original gravity of the beer 3. The temperature of the fermentation. Interestingly enough the do not "temperate" the yeast to the wort. The simply sanitize the packages and scissors, open the manway, cut them open and sprinkle the yeast over the first 2 bbls of wort in the fermentor. They make pretty good beer. They also have temperature and pressure controlled fermentors and a DME plate filter to filter the crap out the beer before serving.... We can make up for our lack of equipment by Fixing the A. B. C.'s from above. A. Aerate the crap out of your wort. Shake--Rattle and Roll your carboys, Drop from pail to pale, or Oxygenate with pure O2 for best results. B. Hydrating/Temperating the yeast properly. Dry yeast need to be hydrated properly before they can go to work. This is best done in warm water without sugar. It is theorized that hydration in wort creates too high an osmotic pressure on the cells causing some yeast cells to implode thus reducing your pitching rate. In other words. The yeast is trying to intake water and exclude the dissolved sugar into the cell through the cell membrane all at once while it is in a weakened state. Occasionally a tree gets stuck in the damn, the damn breaks and kills the cell. I use a cup of water at 104F in a 2 qt pyrex measuring cup. I sprinkle on the yeast and let this stand for 10-15 min with paper towel over the top of the container. I then start lowering temperature of the rehydrated yeast by slowly adding a half cup of chilled oxygenated wort to the yeast every few minutes while I continue to clean up the brew session. This continues until I have roughly equalled out the temps +/- 7F of the yeast and the wort. Upon which time I pitch the yeast. C. Proper nutrition in the wort. At the MCAB Clayton Cone talked about the importance of other elements besides FAN that yeast need for proper nutrition. To maximize the yeasts nutritional need Lallemand developed a "Yeast Energizer" for use in the wine, mead and beer industries. This is the same product that is sold by G.W. Kent in homebrew shops under the same name. He recommends its use in fermenting beers, and mentioned that major breweries like LaBatt and Guinness (qda, I don't have my notes with me) use tons of this product a year. I shamefully haven't brewed since I returned from the MCAB, and thus can't report on its usefulness. I will take care of that this weekend with my 6 grain stout. My question about the new use for this product is when should one use it? The obvious answer would be just add it to the chilled wort. However I theorize that adding the yeast energizer after hydration ie. during temperation might be more effective. After all you are adding the same amount of energizer to the same number of yeast cells, only you are reducing the size of the random pool for the yeast to randomly absorb the energizer from. Anyone with knowledge otherwise? Would energizer at this high a concentration for that short of time be problematic to the yeast? Phil Wilcox Poison Frog Home Brewer Warden - Prison City Brewers In Jackson, MI 32 Miles East of Jeff R AABG, AHA, BJCP, HBD, MCAB, ETC., ad nauseam... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:05:55 -0600 From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us> Subject: homebrewing's future Pat asks for ideas to save homebrewing. Here's my take on such ideas. Seems to me that homebrewing has a kind of crucial threshold: the point at which that intial faddish interest either takes root and becomes a true interest or fades away to nothing. This is the point the homebrew supply business (and the craft brewing industry for that matter) has reached. Nearing the end of the start-up kit market (I'd be very interested to hear from supply shop owners what percentage of last year's gross was made up of such sales), homebrew supply shop owners are watching their customer base dwindle to the small group of hobbyists who've graduated from that kit their brothers-in-law or spouses bought them for Christmas a few years back and those first few batches of horrifying swill made from the kit supplies that came with it. It's a resourceful group, and the suppliers will have to respond to their desire for a wide variety of competitively priced, high quality raw materials and tools. It's a small group too, and, just as in the craft brewing industry, a bunch of good supply shops will bite the dust because there just won't be enough of us to support them all. I'm guessing that the vast majority of posters to the HBD have crossed that homebrewing threshold. To help save homebrewing, we'll first have to accept the fact that our numbers are going to get smaller and that the hobby will become more arcane, not entirely unlike the model train hobbyists a recent poster mentioned (how many shops in your area cater to model train hobbyists?). More importantly, we should help others cross that threshold by inviting them to our clubs, by making the club endeavors more purposeful and inclusive, by providing free demonstrations or classes, by encouraging others to join a brew session or to check out the HBD, by inviting them to our local homebrew competition, by helping them haul out that start-up kit collecting dust in the basement (right next to the fly-tying kit, the fly rod and the cigar humidor) and brew a decent batch of beer. I'm convinced it will be a grassroots endeavor. I'm also convinced such an endeavor is already at the heart of homebrewing anyway. I'm betting that almost every one of us can name a couple of people who were crucial to our understanding and enjoyment of homebrewing, who helped us cross that theoretical interest threshold. Time to return the favor by helping another brewer along. Mike New Orleans, LA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:46:18 PST From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> Subject: Garetz ibu formula Greetings brewers, As a fun programming exercise I'm working on an IBU calculator using the three popular IBU estimation formulae (Tinseth, Garetz, and Rager), based on the excellent info in the Hop Faq: Norm Pyle's Hops FAQ http://realbeer.com/hops/FAQ.html#units Ok, so Tinseth and Rager are fairly straightforward. I'm having trouble understanding Garetz, though, and I'd appreciate input from anyone with insight into this formula. The hop faq says (in part): Garetz Method CA = GF * HF * TFHF = ((CF * Desired IBUs)/260) + 1 (... and then go on to use CA to calculate IBUs...) Note: this process is iterative, since it contains a term (HF) based on your goal IBUs. You must guess at the final result, do the math, and rerun the process, each time adjusting the value downward. It takes a little practice, but can be done. - --- end quote Ok, so is the idea to seed the formula with a dummy IBU (as Desired IBUs), and then re-do it with the calculated IBUs substituted for the Desired IBUs several times? How many times? Should my algorithm test for something like (abs(desired IBUs - calculated IBUS) < 1) or similar to end the loop?Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on this. Regards, Drew ps - I'd be happy to share my C++ code for a hop object including the different IBU calcs for anyone who is interested. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:40:35 PST From: "Don Glass" <deglass at hotmail.com> Subject: Roots I am completely new to homebrewing and I am looking for some information/advice: Is it possible to brew in medicinal roots with beers? If it would be possible: 1. at what point in the brewing process would you add such a thing, and in what form (powdered, crushed, etc.)? 2. what kinds of beers would be best to add them? Any responses or suggestions would be welcomed. As I said, I am completely new to homebrewing, so if I have asked an idiot question, you know why. Thanks deglass at hotmail.com Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:21:53 EST From: BsmntBrewr at aol.com Subject: Demise thread continued. Upon the suggestion of a fellow HBD-ite I have submitted the following thoughts, that I recently posted on the AOL boards related to the "Demise" thread, for your consideration. Brewers, I have been following the "demise" thread with interest. Here in Roanoke, VA we are just now experiencing the so called "wave." Our only brew shop, now 3 years in operation, has doubled his square footage. The shop will also be carrying commercial examples of brews for general consumption in a couple of months. The owner only recently left his regular job to got full time at the shop. Roanoke is a medium sized pleasant place with over 1/4 million pop. (could be much more, that was a figure I heard years ago) in the city and burb type areas. I explained the demise discussion here on AOL to him and pumped him for info without being to intrusive. He related that the summer of 98 was better than the Xmas season of 97. He kept running out of equipment kits! I would go in the shop one day and see 20 true brew kits stacked up in the middle of the shop to return a week later to see them gone with more on order. He reports that he has a steady stream of "newbies" flowing in as well as old timer types that haven't brewed since the seventies. Also this hb shop owner is a good guy. Yesterday he could have sold an equipment kit to a guy but suggested he read a little first and sold him a book instead. I liked that and that attitude will keep people coming back. Further bucking the trend, we will hopefully have a brew pub built from ground up in the near future. Roanoke County's Attorney is a members of our club and reported to us that the owners of a couple of other pubs in VA and GA have had land rezoned for one. Our first brew pub went under years ago. Homebrewers trying to run a restaurant with no experience, their menu was weird and beer erratic. I know there is pessimism out there about the future of the HB industry but in our local its hard to comprehend with the growth we are having, are there other areas experiencing this growth? The solution, I think, is to be active in your clubs, and your clubs active in your community. Preach, Teach and Indoctrinate whenever and where ever you can. Well, at least talk it up to your friends when they are having one of your brews. Doing what ever we can as individuals and clubs combined with operations like Brewing Techniques (BT) and there new marketing efforts we can keep the supply side of the industry thriving. BT has also started, on a small scale, to offer clubs some perks. Could BT be an emerging force in the organization and promotion of home brewing, where others have seemed to fail or stagnate? i.e. AHA? I don't know. One last thought, the industry may change and shift and disappear in some areas but home brewing will never go away. You have 7000 some years of history behind the craft for a reference. Opinions and thoughts anyone? Brew On! Bob Bratcher Roanoke, VA Latitude 37.239885 Longitude -80.004174 (not even close to Renner) Star City Brewers Guild http://hbd.org/starcity http://members.aol.com/bsmntbrewr Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 07:34:06 +0100 From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com> Subject: Oud Bruin Netherlands Brewers, John Varady (#2982) expresses my opinion about the Westvleteren beer. The question about Oud Bruin he mentioned was (I thought) about Dutch Oud Bruin. This is not a Flanders Brown. Most of the big breweries in the Netherlands brew an Oud Bruin. It's a bottom fermented low alcohol, dark beer, which is often artificial sweetened. I will look for a recipe. A few ## ago I asked if there are ideas about the possibility to clone a (winning) recipe. And sharing info about recipies. Until now I got no answer. Greetings from Holland, Hans Aikema Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 03:08:57 -0500 From: joytbrew at halifax.com (Joy Hansen) Subject: Steamy RIMS? - ------------------------------ Kyle Druey wrote on the Subject: Steam RIMS Hi Kyle, I'm always looking for better ways to operate my equipment, a home built keg based RIMS. Salvage pressure cookers are easy to come and are inexpensive. Application might be a reasonable alternative to electric heating elements which has inherent problems. If you could resolve a few issues for me, I might be in the market to change my system. How you control the temperature of the mash in the immediate area of the steam inlet. At first consideration of your described process, there would be a large volume of the mash exposed to brief but very high temperatures. Temperatures possibly high enough to destroy the enzymes within seconds? With the RIMS water heater exchanger, the IO temperature difference is near 2 degrees, although it's been quite a while since I made a determination. What are your measured the temperatures in the mash at different distances from the steam inlet? With motorized stirring and electric heat RIMS circulation, there's a variation of temperature throughout the mash of 2 degrees. Do you use rapid speed motorized mixing; or, is the nozzle moved rapidly through the mash? With other heat systems, direct flame, HERMS, and electric heating elements (RIMS), the effort is to reach a mash temperature as quickly as possible without overshooting the set temperature. Thus preserving the enzymes to do their work. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:04:05 -0500 From: "S. Wesley" <WESLEY at MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Subject: Chiller Pumps. Dear Alan, I haven't checked the serial number, but I think I bought the same pump from the same place. My setup begins with a slotted ring made of 1/2" copper tubing around the bottom of the kettle. A compression T from the ring feeds 1/2" tubing through another set of fittings in the kettle wall to a ball valve. More 1/2" tubing runs from the valve to the pump which is mounted on a little cart which also holds the chiller. I put a "T" on the output of the pump with valves on the other two ends of the "T" one valve goes into the chiller and the other is used to prime the pump The reason you need to put the pump first is that it is not self priming, further these pumps need to be gravity fed, and MAY not work as well if you try to get them to suck up over the side of the kettle. The way I prime the pump is to close the valve to the chiller and open the valve on the stem of the "T" until wort starts to flow out. I then close this valve, turn on the pump and then open the other valve. I really don't think you will get away with trying to use the pump on the output of the chiller for this reason. With the pump you will be able to get more turbulent flow and the rate of heat transfer will go up. Obviously you will need to run your chiller water faster too. The problem you may experience is that now your beer is spending less time in the chiller and even though heat is leaving the beer faster the dramatically reduced time you will get with the pump will result in the beer coming out warmer. There are three ways around this problem. 1) run the coolant water even faster 2) run the pump slower 3) get a longer chiller. Good Luck Simon Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 05:02:29 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Franklin <tommfranklin at yahoo.com> Subject: Isolate of Yeast Hi All, A scientist friend of mine has given me a Petri dish with an isolate of lager brewing yeast. (No other specifics were given.) While I'm not set up for Lagering, I wouldn't mind making an experimental 3 gallon batch of Steam/Common with it. My only question is: How do I transform what's on the Petri dish into something I can use in my Homebrew? Responses from those with either theoretical knowledge or practical experience are welcome! tom == Tom Franklin Raleigh, NC http://www.imagineradio.com/mymusiclisten.asp?name=tomfranklin _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 05:05:09 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com> Subject: Nottingham and sediment on sides of bottles Greetings I finally tried Nottingham in a two pale ales. I used Wyeast 1056 in the same recipe about 3 months ago. The latest batches were replicates with the exception of one using only a primary and the other including a transfer to a secondary. The experiment is still going (bottle conditioning) so I'll report later my observations. Lately Rob Moline, Ken Schwartz, and others, have talked about Nottingham. I'll pose a question. After about a week in the bottle, both of the above batches were less hazy - settled - but seemed like there were larger clumps settled on one side of most bottles all the way up to the neck. If I swirl slightly these clumps move and then finally fall to the bottom of the bottle. So I did this to all bottles and now all look 'normal.' Anyone noticed this type of behavior - yeast sticking to the side of the bottle? I did not notice this with the 1056 batch. And these recent batches taste fine, too - not infected.... Has anyone else seen this (another entry in the 'Yeast Life History Library')? Thanks, Matt Comstock in Cincinnati. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 9:16 -0800 From: "George De Piro" <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> Subject: Response to pump question Hi all, Alan McKay asks whether or not it is OK to connect 3/8" pipe to a 1/2" pump inlet. He has been told this is a bad thing to do. The information he received is correct, it is a bad thing to do. The pump can be starved and the risk of cavitation will be greater (because of the increased vacuum in the pump head). Cavitation makes short work of impellers, and the lack of liquid around the entire pump shaft will greatly increase wear (there is no lubricant in a magnetically coupled pump other than the liquid you are pumping). For those of you that are wondering what cavitation is, it is the state where the liquid in the pump is boiling because the pressure in the pump has dropped below the vapor pressure of the liquid. This causes major erosion of the impeller (at Siebel they make a point of showing the students an impeller that has been eaten away by cavitation). I'm sure you'll hear from people that say they have been running their pump like this for ages, and you may get away with it because of the relatively light usage the pump will get. It's technically incorrect, though, and you risk damaging the impeller and the pump head. Pushing the wort through the chiller is a good option. Even if the chiller pipe diameter matched the pump's, I would rather push the wort through the chiller than pull it. The chiller presents a lot of resistance to flow, and you could starve the pump if you run the pump faster than the liquid can run through the chiller. Pushing it through the chiller negates this concern. Have fun! George de Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:22:38 -0500 From: "Marc Sedam" <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: autoclaving bottles Tom: The only problem with leaving the labels on is that they're near impossible to get off after one autoclave cycle. As long as the bottles are clean on the inside, cover the tops with a small piece of aluminum foil and you're all set. Easiest sanitation there is. Cheers! Marc Marc Sedam University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Return to table of contents
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