---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  More on BS survival (From Kiplinger...) (pbabcock)
  Sanitation comments ("Michael T. Bell")
  Dwarf Hops (ALANDOWDY)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Heat-sanitizing bottles ("Fred L. Johnson")
  beer stone, acids and stainless steel (David Whitman)
  anyone build a gravity system with the 55 gallon drums? (darrell.leavitt)
  25ppm = how many capfuls? (Kevin TenBrink)
  question re: malt extract for bottling (darrell.leavitt)
  HELP : my water really sucks! (Alan McKay)
  Re: Cooling Wort ("Nix, Andrew")
  National Homebrew Day in Cincinnati (Dan Listermann)
  Re: Lawnmower beer (Joel Plutchak)
  Re: Sanitizing Beer Bottles (Jeff Renner)
  (no subject) (Jebbly)
  5th Annual Boneyard Brew-Off ("Brian J. Paszkiet")
  RE: Thames Valley (Steven_Johnson)
  Re: Sanitizing Beer Bottles (Greg Newinski) (GregN124)
  Non-Returnable Bottes and Ramblings (Joy Hansen)
  lagering (John Wilkinson)
  Lawnmower Beer/ Try Ginger (Spencer Tomb)
  Lime/Oxalate/Czech Pils Sulfur (AJ)


Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

2000 MCAB Qualifiers: Spirit of Free Beer! Competition 5/22/99
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(http://www.mtsw.com/hotv/fest.html); Buzz-Off! Competition 6/26/99
(http://www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:23:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: pbabcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com>
Subject: More on BS survival (From Kiplinger...)

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Sorry to turn over some composting mash offal, but, almost on the heels of
our discussion regarding the state of home brewing - in particular, the
survival of brew shops - the Kiplinger Washington Letter (Great little
weekly news summary, for those who don't read it) echoes many of the
points we made, though addressing the broader subject of all retail
business. To wit, they say "Providing good customer service is key to a
healthy bottom line. (Listen up, oh ye who think your customers owe you!)

They offer the following pointers (some of this oughta sound familiar):
o LISTEN To CUSTOMERS!
o Ask for feedback. (Be sure to reread the line above.)
o Beef up service and repair department (this doesn't apply
  directly to our discussion, but could be construed as 
  hiring those WHO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING as opposed to the 
  lowest cost, off the street clerks. A HB shop's "service 
  department can be construed as those who give advice on the
  actual brewing, selection of goods, etc.)
o Make it personal - the EDGE against those low-cost, out-of-
  the-locale suppliers: get to know your customers, treat them
  like a friend (for those who don't know: that means with 
  courtesy, and respect with a hint of familiarity) and they'll
  come back.
o Play an active role in the community. This can be done, by the
  way, without huge outlay of cash. Simply keeping their grounds 
  attractively and "lobbying" that surrounding shops should do the
  same pushed a local small drug store to the fore in Garden City 
  and Belleville, Michigan back in my college day. To the point 
  that he did admirably well against the MAJOR drug chains in the
  area. Rest his soul, he had the concept down pat! (And a boss
  worthy of note. Taught me a lot, and treated me fairly and 
  with respect - as he did his customers.)
o Put PEOPLE WHO LIKE PEOPLE in the frontline jobs. Oscar the
  Grouch is really only good at selling lunchboxes and children's 
  toys...
o Empower employees to help. This doesn't mean you should allow them
  to give away the shop, but an employee should have the power to 
  make right things that went wrong within the shop's realm of 
  control. "I'll give you $$$/Free if I can't beat your best deal" 
  is the gimmicky pinacle of this approach, but there are others. 
  Acts as simple as replacing the <item> that crashed to the ground
  as the customer was trying to put them into the car can cement 
  a relationship at little cost. Free yeast if the batch we gave 
  you the recipe for doesn't turn out. Doesn't have to be to every-
  one all the time either, but careful about feeding someone's 
  persecution complex (Gee, they've done that for X, but not for 
  me...)
o Reward those who make service a priority (Duh!)
o Use technology wisely. This one they actually don't say nearly 
  enough about. One of the greatest turn-offs in this digital, 
  internet age is to go to a site to buy something or get information 
  on something you wish to buy to find a worthless billboard-type web
  site or one that hasn't been updated in a dog's age. Having a web 
  site simply to have one can cost you more business than it creates 
  (Glad I'm not selling anything for how out of date my sites are...).
o Cut customers slack when they need it. This kind of goes hand-in-
  hand with the empowered employee bit, but can be more, too. Let the 
  known customer skate with a promise to pay it later when they come 
  up a bit short at the counter, for instance. Makes it personal, 
  shows you trust and respect them - that you've noticed their support
  of your business.
o Help customers cut their costs. Use the original issue in this series
  to your advantage: help arrange a bulk grain buy. At cost. Why? You 
  enamor those you are helping, help your situation or standing with 
  your vendor through increased volume, and, perhaps, lower your own
  costs by hitchhiking your order on top of their's. You all win. And
  guess whom they're most likely to patronize when their grain bins 
  run empty and the group isn't ready for another bulk purchase. Uh-huh!
o Manage inventories. This is important. Though Kiplinger's approaches 
  it more from the manufacturing/mass merchandising aspect, it holds 
  true for HB shops as well. Having a huge investment in inventory can 
  strangle you faster than kudzu after a hop bine. Yes, it's good to 
  have a large SELECTION, and enough inventory to keep a moderate 
  order cycle vs demand, but watch what moves closely and order 
  appropriately. Be careful to check for customer appeal before 
  bringing in that latest gadget or supply (see the first two items
  in this list for a hint on just how to accomplish that little trick.)

Anyway, sorry to go on about this, but it concerns me. It was interesting 
to see this piece in the Kiplinger Washington Letter so close on the
heels of our discussion. Kind of lent credence to it.

On another note, I was happy to see a bit of expansion in our area
recently with the opening of a new shop in Dearborn (Heights?) and an
inquiry from a beer/wine shop in Warren regarding carrying homebrewing
supplies. This on the heels of one closing (which was personally a bit
painful. They were right on the way home from work.)


See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brew Page                 http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:31:44 -0500
From: "Michael T. Bell" <miketb at airmail.net>
Subject: Sanitation comments

I started in the middle of this sanitation thread, but..........

 In HBD #3014, Joy Hansen writes:

"You might agree that Star san is appropriate as a sanitizer for my
situation.
I must live with the foaming, the cloudy solutions, and check the ph
frequently.  OTOH, Star San solutions might have an indefinite storage

period and could be used over and over until the pH changes?"

Have you tried a product called Oxine.  It is a chlorine dioxide
solution.  Works
very well for me the past year or so.  I remember a small article
about it in BT
some time ago.  I get mine from Bio-Cide in Norman,OK( no
affiliations, etc...except
for the covered wagon in my front yard.  Wife hates it.).

Mike Bell
Mansfield, TX





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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:20:53 EDT
From: ALANDOWDY at aol.com
Subject: Dwarf Hops

A recent article in Zymurgy and a few posts here about buying hop rhizomes 
got me thinking again about how unsuccessful I was finding a source for any 
of the dwarf species here in the US.  All the information I was able to find 
referred to commercial field tests in the UK.  I realize it's probably too 
late in the season but has anyone seen any dwarf hop rhizomes for sale here 
in the states?  Thanks.

Alan Dowdy
Torrance, CA


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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:52:38 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

			The Jethro Gump Report

Nitrogen Heads
	As far as I am concerned, the nitrogen is in solution....And agreeing that
it is 'nearly insoluble,' I have been forced in the past to "nitrogenate' my
stouts  at  LABCO at a much higher pressure than I would normally used for
carbonation.
	In fact, Matt Brynildson, (excuse me Sir, if I spelled it wrong) of Goose
Island in Chicago has done research on this, and spoken  at  MBAA Tech
Conferences on his work, which involves instrumentation to measure dissolved
N2, and dissolved CO2, in his products....
	Incidentally, among his most interesting findings was the fact that, as
measured by Siebel, there was a 10% decrease in IBU's after N2!
	But don't ask me, Al...visit a local brewer (to your area) ......

	My understanding on this matter is that Guinness itself was the major
developer of the N2 phenomenon, decades ago....
	.. as they were in search of a process that would approximate the cask
beer/handpump effect, yet allow them the control from headquarters that was
gained by having a standardized product, with CO2/N2, in the keg from the
brewery....
	Delivered via CO2/N2 gas to maintain equilibrium of gases in the keg, and
to provide the propulsion to force the brew through the restriction of the
'sparkler/breakout' plate that can be seen in every 'Guinness' faucet, they
seem to not only have delivered a successful product, but also a strategy
that has been adopted elsewhere....
	This would provide uniformity in serving, and deliver less waste, as a
similar cask beer might not last a week in a slow sales period. Whereas a
nitrogen fitted keg is good for a longer period.....

	If one looks  at  the Draught Flow cans that serve Guinness, Boddington's and
others, one finds the patented 'process/technique' of widgets, drilled with
a laser accurate hole of 0.6 mm, fitted into the 'tin.' After the brew is
filled into the tin, and before the crown is attached, a dose of liquid
nitrogen is dropped in.....after the heat of pasteurization...this N2 helps
'push' the brew and gases into the widget......
	When the tin is opened.....the effect is obvious.....

	I'd be hard pressed to change my views....I understand that my use of very
cold temps...and higher than normal pressures, does in fact allow me to
saturate a brew with nitrogen......

	And Adam..."silent bob" <holdenmcneil at hotmail.com> seems to hit the nail on
the head with what I thought was an extension of the obvious contents of the
bubble wall theory...
	Yes, the contents of the brew do dictate many of the properties that aid
head retention....but the fact that nitrogen might fill those bubbles, and
that this space is somewhat equivalent to the content of atmospheric
air....lends further credence to the concept of reduced bubble coalescence,
secondary to similar gasses on both sides of the wall....

	An excellent question for the Siebel staff, yes?

MR JOY.......
	Jethro wishes to apologize for any incorrect reference to Ms. Hansen....it
was never my understanding that she was a he....though whether she is a
he...or he is a she...or he is using her account....or she is...??
	OH, well lets call you Happy Hansen!!
	All I can say is that I must have been sober  at  the time......!

	BWRT....your experiences regarding iodophor and precipitates, I am very
sympathetic...for I have experienced these myself....past readers over the
years would have seen this....
	But, I disagree that the possession of a commercial CIP would make a
difference to the precipitate....I have often observed it before CIP....It's
the water, yeah?

	With, again, all respects to Mr. Fix, I would suggest that you contact
Charles Talley of 5 Star directly with your hopes that <<"OTOH,Star San
solutions might have an indefinite storage
period and could be used over and over until the pH changes?">>

	Mr. Talley is the Chief Chemist for 5 Star, is easily approachable, and as
the designer of the stuff, I would suggest he be a reputable advisor in
addition to Mr. Fix. His address can be found within the 5 Star website, I
am sure.......

	BTW, 10/60 is 10 minutes.......(2/24 is 2 hours....4/7 is 4 days.....2/12
is 2 months...etc...yes?)

Dr. Pivo....
	He's Right........
	Though he shot a few too many......Just my 2 cents.....

And While We Are On The Subject!!!!!
	George DePiro....that ....that....that.......%^$ at ((*^%%...

	I am pleased to announce that George is about to....no, it has been coming
for some time....convert from amateur to professional brewing...as the Head
Brewer for a concern in Albany, New York...the Evan's Brewing Company....a
re-birth of a family legacy...commercially to be known as the Albany Pump
Station.......opening date yet to be announced.....
	Take it from me....there's medals up there in Albany....
	Good brewing, George!

WOI Radio Brewing Show...
	Screwed up again....the show is on Thursday......2.29.99....640 AM,
10:00-11:00 am CST....

Phoenix......
	See ya there! I will be part of the Toast from Phoenix......Sorry, I can't
carry a carboy back on the aircraft!

Anheuser Busch....
	Being a major employer in Littleton, Colorado...and whether or not there
are brewers/employees directly affected.....(How could you not be) and
especially if there are....
	My prayers are with you.......

Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
brewer at isunet.net
Lallemand Web Site
jethro at isunet.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"



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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:37:46 -0400
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Heat-sanitizing bottles

Richar Kuzara states that baking his bottles in the oven at 275F or 250F for
30 minutes is causing his bottles to break.  I have baked my bottles for
over two years at 350-375 for an hour and a half and let them cool overnight
in the oven without disturbing them.  I have done this for over two years
without a single broken bottle.
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA


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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:10:35 -0500
From: David Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Subject: beer stone, acids and stainless steel

Dr. Pivo has his phenomenology correct, but his chemistry leaves something
to be desired:

>Beer stone is just the little hard dry deposits that are left behind
>from any aspect of the beer making...
>...
>Beer stone is divided into "inorganics" (principally carbonates... the
>same stuff as the white fuzz on your faucet if you have high carbonate
>water)

Beer stone is the phrase used to describe deposits of calcium oxalate
resulting from brewing, not carbonates.  However, they can be removed with
acids as Dr. Pivo suggests.  I see essentially no fizzing when removing
beer stone with acid, which one would expect if it was a carbonate.  

Not just any acid will do; to remove calcium oxalate you want to choose an
acid whose anion forms a soluble calcium salt.  (HCl, acetic and nitric are
OK, but sulfuric and phosphate won't work).

I think the technical term for the ORGANIC residue from brewing is "gunk",
not beer stone.

>Since most industrial stuff is made of stainless, the acid of choice is
>often "Nitric acid" since it is what is called a "reducing acid" , and
>"pickles" the stainless, giving it a corrosion resistant surface.
>

Nitric is an OXIDIZING acid.  Mixing it with other cleaning agents under
the assumption that it was a reducing agent could lead to some extremely
dangerous mixtures. But Dr. Pivo is correct that nitric acid will help
maintain the corrosion resistant surface of stainless steel (by oxidizing
the metal to produce a passivating oxide layer).


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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:21:17 -0500 (EST)
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: anyone build a gravity system with the 55 gallon drums?

I am interested in knowing if anyone has built a gravity/ or partial gravity
system with the 55 gallon drums?
 ..Darrell
leavitdg at splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu


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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 05:18:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kevin TenBrink <zzymurgist at yahoo.com>
Subject: 25ppm = how many capfuls?


Joy wrote:
>> Idophor solutions at 25 ppm with a contact time of
5 minutes are effective. Interestingly, when the ppm
idophor increases above 25, the effectiveness of the
sanitizing decreases.  More is not better!<<

So I ask:
How many capfuls of BTF in 5 gallons equals 25ppm?
Somewhere along the way I picked up 1 capful for each
gallon, so hopefully this is close.

Kevin
Lansing MI
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:29:23 -0500 (EST)
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: question re: malt extract for bottling

I recently brewed an all grain stout, dry stout I believe (4 lb Halcyon,
3 lb Munich, 2lb flaked barley, 1 lb roasted barley, 1 lb flaked oats, 3 cups
rice hulls, 1 lb chocolate malt, 3/16 lb Sauer (acid) malt.
2hr at 155, og= 1.048, fg=1.020)

after 6 days things seemed to have stopped....perhaps not...so I decided
to bottle...using 1 1/4 cup wheat dme....used wlp004 Irish Ale yeast at
end of boil by the way...

now I got curious and opened a bottle 2 days after bottling and it really
shot out all over the place.,..is it likely that the yeast had
not stopped...and I made  BIG mistake by bottling so soon?  and , if so,
what can I do besides being ready for a HUGE head?

By the way...it tasted wonderful...so I would like to salvage...

perhaps I just need to wait??

nervously awaiting the the advice of you experts...

 ..Darrell
leavitdg at splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu



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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:37:32 -0400
From: Alan McKay <amckay at ottawa.com>
Subject: HELP : my water really sucks!

Hi folks,

Firstly, if you are reading this in r.c.b then please copy replies to my

email amckay at ottawa.com since I'm still very much in moving mode,
and may not have much time to be checking the newsgroup.  HBD
folks don't bother, since I can come back and check that any time
on the web page.

As you all know, I moved last weekend.  But my water in my new
place is horrible!  It tastes rusty.  There is a water softener there,
and
I bought salts and put them in, but there is no difference yet.  Maybe
the thing isn't turned on or something, I don't know.  Or maybe it's
set to only go off once a week or something.  I'll have to dig into the
manual and see what's what.

I know I have to get the water tested to see exactly what's going on,
but aside from that what else can I do?

I'm considering getting a water distiller or something.  Anyone know
if that's possible, and how much it costs?  Like one of those machines
that produce the bottled water you buy in drug stores.

Man, this is really, really depressing ...

cheers,
 -Alan




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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:01:09 -0400
From: "Nix, Andrew" <anix at bechtel.com>
Subject: Re: Cooling Wort

<Snip from Dan's Post>
>From a thermodynamic point of view this is very
inefficient.  They are starting out with a small thermal mass ( say 2.5
gallons) with a high temperature differential in a conductive vessel. By
pouring it into cold water, they now  have to cool a large thermal mass,
with a low temperature differential ( about 110 F) in an less conductive
vessel.  This operation can take 5 hours. <SNIP>

Dan, what do you mean by high temperature differential??  Differential from
the pitching temperature???  As for the thermodynamics, mixing is a direct
contact process...heat transfer and equilibration to the mixed temperature
in the presence of some mixing is nearly instantaneous.  The point here is
that you need the enthalpy of each fluid.  The formula here is: m1*h1+m2h2 =
m3h3 where m is the mass of the fluid and h is the enthalpy of the fluid.
For simplicity, we can assume the wort to be liquid water, so the enthalpy
of say 200F water (cools from boiling to 200F very quickly by natural
convection) is 168.09 Btu/lb with a specific volume of 0.12445 gal/lb....if
we put the cold water in the freezer and let it get to nearly freezing,
let's say 35F, the enthalpy is 3.0460 Btu/lb and the specific volume is
0.11983 gal/lb.

So...if we mix 3 gals of water at 35F with 2 gals of wort at 200F, we should
get:

3 gal cold water/0.11983 Gal/lb = 25.035 lb cold water and 2 gal hot
wort/0.12445 gal/lb = 16.071 lb hot wort

25.035 lb*3.046 Btu/lb + 16.071 lb*168.09 Btu/lb = (25.035 lb+16.071
lb)*h3......solving for h3 we get....67.572 Btu/lb which is a mixed
temperature of 99.5F.

This is just an example, but this is the way you would do it.  However, the
assumption here is that the specific heat (basically enthalpy/unit temp) is
equal to that of water.  Data may be available on the ratio of specific heat
of wort vs. water at certain temperatures.  You could use this type of
analysis to determine how much cold water to add to a set volume of nearly
boiling wort to equilibrate at a desired temp, but iterating will be
necessary.  The values for enthalpy and specific volume at different temps
(and atmospheric pressure) can be found in engineering tables for compressed
water on the web somewhere.  I have a shareware program here if anyone is
interested.


Andrew C. Nix
Frederick, MD



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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:13:21 -0400
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: National Homebrew Day in Cincinnati

For anyone who might be in or around Cincy this comming Saturday, you are

invited to help the Bloatarian Brewing League and the Cincinnati Malt
Infusers celebrate national Homebrew Day on Fountain Square.  For fans of

old sitcoms, this is where the fountain that reads "To the People of
Cincinnati" in the opening of "WKRP in Cincinnati" is.  Real class, huh? 
 


We will be brewing from about 11:00 AM to around 3:00.  For the Cincy
impaired, Fountain Square is on 5th Street between Vine and Walnut, just
east of the Fritz Mondale Memorial Bus Stop.  


As Cincy's Rock Bottom is on the Square, there is talk of ajourning there

to discuss the offerings.

If you have any questions, give me a call at (513) 731-1130 or drop me an

E-mail.

Dan Listermann       72723.1707 at compuserve.com

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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:04:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Lawnmower beer



"Harry Ewasiuk" <shogun at ccinet.ab.ca> asked:
>Being new to homebrewing, I have heard the expression "lawnmower beer".
>What is it and what defines a good example of this? I am getting thirsty
>thinkin about this...;-)

And Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> responded:
>It means a light, usually pale, thirst quenching beer that hits the spot
>on a hot summer afternoon (I suppose summer is about a week long up where
>you are) when you've been mowing the lawn.  Something that also wouln't
>endanger your safety operating machinery.  A standard commercial North
>American lager would be an example of this...

   That's certainly the standard definition.  Personally, my
definition of lawnmower beer can be stated in one word: Barleywine!
   Here's the rationale.  When doing yard work on a hot summer day,
it's fairly easy to get a little hot and thirsty.  Alcohol is not
a good thing to use to rehydrate your body.  For that, water (or
even better, fresh lemonade) does a great job.  Quenches the
thirst and rehydrates the body.  Drink it during and immediately
after mowing that lawn.  Then, late in the afternoon when all the
yard work is done and the lawnmower (I swear by the good ol' dependable
human-powered variety; even the sound of one is relaxing, a nice
contrast to the power-driven snarl that's all too common today) is
resting comfortably in the garage, nothing hits the spot better
than a homebrewed barleywine, sipped while relaxing and viewing
the fruits of your suburban labor.
- --
Joel Plutchak <plutchak at uiuc.edu>
Drinking lawnmower barleywine in East-central Illinois



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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:40:00 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Sanitizing Beer Bottles

rkuzara at wyoming.com (Richard S. Kuzara) baked his bottles to sanitize and
some broke and asked:

>has anyone been successful
>sanitizing in the oven and what is wrong with my procedure or what is the
>suggested oven procedure?

I don't do it as much as i did years ago because I keg nearly everything,
but I did do it with success.  The key is to anneal the bottles by slowly
cooling to avoid differential stress in them.  This is easy for me since I
have a 28"x36" stone hearth electric pizza oven with 6" insulation.  I lay
the bottles on their sides several high (like cordwood) and heat it to 225F
or so, then leave it overnight to cool.  In a regular home oven, you may
need to gradually reduce the heat over several hours.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:35:11 EDT
From: Jebbly at aol.com
Subject: (no subject)

I am looking for some details on Irish Red Ales.  I have not found much 
information on this "style" and wonder if it is, in fact, an official style 
of ale.  I want to know the characteristics and guidelines for brewing as 
well as some recipes (all grain) that will point me in the right direction.  
My only examples are Greg Noonan's Burley Irish Ale (VT Pub and Brewery), 
Trout River's Red Ale or Boulevard's Irish Ale.  Although they seem to be 
milder than pale ales and esb's I find them better than most english mild 
ales.  They don't seem to have the low alcohol level of milds or ordinary 
bitters either.  Does anyone have any personal knowledge on them or know a 
good reference I can refer to?

Also, I posted a question several months ago but got no response so I'll try 
again with this one:  I am thinking of putting together a rims but have a 
major concern.  How does one keep the temperature constant?  Right now I put 
my mash tun in an insulated box I built and can keep the temp constant for 90 
minutes (+ or - 1 degree) which I think is pretty good.  My initial feeling 
is that, with no insulation and only a burner to maintain the heat, the 
temperatures can flux greatly.  What gives?  Is there some great trick to 
this, is it easy or is there an art than needs mastering here?

Thanks in advance

Dave Grommons
Jebbly at aol.com


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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:36:21 -0500
From: "Brian J. Paszkiet" <bpaszkie at ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: 5th Annual Boneyard Brew-Off

The Boneyard Union of Zymurgical Zealots of Champaign, IL 
would like to announce our upcoming 5th Annual Boneyard 
Brew-Off taking place June 11-12, 1999.  We will be judging 
all 1998 BJCP beer, mead, and cider categories.  This is an 
AHA sanctioned competition as well as a qualifying event for 
the Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing (MCAB) II (see
http://www.hbd.org/mcab for more details).  Points will also be 
awarded for Midwest Homebrewer of the Year.

The main judging will start at 9:00 am on Saturday, June 12th.  
Standard AHA rules apply: we will need three unmarked 
10-16 oz brown or green bottles, with bottle ID forms attached 
to each bottle with a rubber band, a completed entry/recipe 
form, and $6 for each of the first entry, $5 for each subsequent 
entry from the same brewer(s).  Entries must arrive between 
MAY 26 and JUNE 5, 1999.  We will accept walk-in entries 
from judges at 8:15 am on the day of the competition 
(June 12th) as long as the completed paperwork and fee arrive 
by June 5th.

Our special category again this year will be the "No One Gets 
Out Alive High-Gravity Brew-Off".  In this category, we will judge 
any beer with a starting gravity over 1.070 purely on the basis 
of drinkability and octane.  For this category, we only require 
two unmarked 6-16 oz brown or green bottles.  We will allow 
any high gravity style, but if you wish the beer to be also judged 
in another category, you must separately enter it in that category.  
No fortification is allowed.  The winners in this category will not 
be eligible for best of show, but will receive a special award.

Entries should be sent to:
Boneyard Brew-Off
c/o Piccadilly Beverage Shop
505 S. Neil St.
Champaign, IL 61820

For additional information, contact the competition organizer 
Brian Paszkiet (bpaszkie at uiuc.edu or (217) 352-2438(H) or 
(217) 333-9033(W)).

Forms and rules are also available on the World Wide Web at:
http://www.uiuc.edu/ro/BUZZ/contest5.html
Online entry and judge registration will be available in mid May.

Brian Paszkiet
BUZZ President  



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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:27:34 -0400
From: Steven_Johnson at ccnotes.ccity.com
Subject: RE: Thames Valley



Brian asked about others experiences with Thames Valley yeast.  I have used 1275
quite a bit, in fact it is my favorite yeast for English bitters.  Recently I
tried using 1275 on an Imperial Stout, OG 1.110.  It was a 3 gal batch and I
used the yeast cake(Thames) from a 5 gal batch of brown ale. It took off like a
rocket! However, after 3 weeks in the primary, and a week of no airlock
activity, I checked the gravity, the yeast pooped out around 1.060. I tried
rousing the yeast by gently swirling the carboy, 3 times a day for 5 days, but
this was not successful.  Since I pitched such an immense yeast cake and
aireated the wort, and it still pooped out, I came to the conclusion that this
yeast is just not alcohol tolerant enough for high OG worts.

Steve J
Head Brewer and mopboy of Pocoshock Brewery
Proud member of The Weekend Brewers HomeBrew Club, Chester VA




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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:43:57 EDT
From: GregN124 at aol.com
Subject: Re: Sanitizing Beer Bottles (Greg Newinski)

I sanitize my bottles in the oven.  I fill the oven with the bottles, place a 
jelly roll pan on top of the element and put some boiling water in the pan.  
Heat oven at 180 - 200 for an hour or so.  This builds a lot of  steam which 
sanitizes the bottles better than dry heat.  Then after they have cooled I 
remove the bottles and set a sanitzed cap on each one right away.  You must 
allow them to cool slowly. I started doing this when I felt my dishwasher 
wasn't getting hot enough anymore.  Haven't had any problems so far.

Greg Newinski


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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:44:18 +0000
From: Joy Hansen <happyhansen at scronline.com>
Subject: Non-Returnable Bottes and Ramblings

Richard recently wrote about non-returnable bottle damage from oven
sanitizing.  

I'd also like to know more about the composition of non-returnable
bottles. Anyone got any thoughts on their composition? 

Is it possible that the structure of the non-returnable bottle is
damaged during the heating process. Are heat sanitized non-returnable
bottles that don't break immediately likely too fail when the brew
pressure builds up or they receive a small bump?

In the mid-sixties, when I was washing glass beer bottles, frequently,
the complete bottom of the bottle would separate and give me a nasty hot
shower.  This was the type of wash tube that extended to the bottom of
most bottles and the valve was in the bitter-end of the tube.  For some
reason, it still seems like a more efficient bottle washing wand because
it doesn't remix the old dregs with the comings.  Are there HBD readers
still using a bottle washing tube that extends to the bottom of the
bottle?  If so, I'd appreciate knowing where and if it can be purchased.


My present bottle washing technique isn't accepted by most home
brewers.  When I pour a brew (bottle conditioned), I rinse the bottle
and let it drain.  Then I put the bottle on the bottom shelf of the dish
washer and let it go through the complete cycle with sani-dry.  No
breakage at this point.  

Before reuse, I rinse the bottles with the newer shorty bottle washer,
and immediately thereafter rinse with Star San.  I leave the bottles on
the bottle rack tower for 15 to 20 minutes.  I soak my caps in Star San
for about 5 minutes and remove the caps from the sanitizer and leave
them inverted on a paper towel.  I fill the bottles via a standard brass
filling tube and place a cap on each bottle as it is filled.  I like
beer foam to fill the air space. Many times there's enough CO2 in the
brew to accomplish this.  

I'm not really concerned about the "Monica effect" blessing my bottled
brew and the lack thereof might be the dishwasher surficants.  Don't
know for sure.  

Now, why was it that I started kegging my brews .  .  .

Ciao,              Joy"T"Brew




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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:00:29 -0500
From: John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: lagering

I have read in HBD of slowly lowering the temp of the beer after a diacetyl
rest.  Why?  The only reason I can think of for not crash cooling is to prevent
shocking the yeast and dropping it out.  But isn't it done at this point
anyway?

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas


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Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:58:01 -0500
From: Spencer Tomb <astomb at ksu.edu>
Subject: Lawnmower Beer/ Try Ginger

Jeff:
Thanks for the suggestions on making a thirst quenching brew.

I have made two batches of a similar  light gravity beer to the one you
posted except that I added lemon peel and grated fresh ginger root 1/4 cup
and 1/2as I cooled the wort.  I covered the pot and put it in an ice bath.
I returned the condensate on the cover to the pot.

I do not have the final gravity at hand but I think it was less than 1.042.
 I used a Cooper's  extract and re pitched a Nottingham yeast from our
brewpub.

The results were very refreshing.  The second batch was better and did not
last 5 weeks from the brew date!  In the first batch, I made the mistake of
getting some of the white part of the lemon peel and that gave a bitter
taste. 

I would like to know others experience with Ginger Beers.

Spencer Tomb

Jeff Renner Wrote:
It means a light, usually pale, thirst quenching beer that hits the spot on
>a hot summer afternoon (I suppose summer is about a week long up where you
>are) when you've been mowing the lawn.  (Snip) My personal choice would be
a light Classic American Pilsner (CAP).
>
>It's easier to brew a lawnmower beer with all grain, but there are some
>very pale extracts.  I'd keep the gravity no higher than 1.042, bitterness
>24 IBU maximum, if making an ale, use a fairly neutral yeast (such as
>Chico/American liquid or Nottingham dry).  Mash at a low temp for good
>fermentability, or if using extract, avoid Dutch dry extract as this is not
>fully fermentable.  A good choice for liquid extract would be Alexander's
>(also sold by William's under their label).  Heresy here - using 10-20%
>corn sugar (or rice if mashing) can make it drier and more refreshing.




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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:49:50 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Lime/Oxalate/Czech Pils Sulfur

A couple of people have requested that I post details of decarbonation
by lime treatment. To do this it is best that you know the temporary
hardness of your water which means that you must know its hardness and
alkalinity. If the hardness is greater than the alkalinity the temporary
hardness is equal to the alkalinity. If the alkalinity is greater than
the hardness, the temporary hardness is equal to the hardness.
Nominally, you will be able to remove all but about 50 ppm as CaCO3 of
alkalinity. More can be removed by adding supplemental calcium.

To know whether your treatment has been effective you need to know post
treatment alkalinity (and preferrably hardness as well). Thus I believe
you need to obtain test kits for these two parameters. Such kits come
from a number of manufacturers, are fairly inexpensive and are not
difficult to use. The success of the method requires that pH be
monitored so suitable test strips will be needed.

The reaction being exploited is:

Ca++    +  Ca(OH)2 + 2HCO3-   --> 2CaCO3 + 2H2O

Here's the procedure:

1. Add 1 tsp of chalk for each 5 gal of water being treated and stir.
This serves to provide nucleation sites for the chalk (CaCO3) that will
be precipitated.
2. Multiply the temporary hardness of the water (in ppm as CaCO3) by
0.74 and then by the number of liters of water (3.78 liters to the
gallon) to be treated to get the approximate number of grams of lime
required.
3. Increase the result from Step 2 by 20%, place that amount of lime in
a beaker or other container with enough water to make a slurry. If the
temporary hardness is not known, make a slurry of a couple of teaspoons
of lime in water and go by the pH values given below.
4. Add the slurry to the water in increments, stirring and checcking the
pH after each addition. Use larger additions at first, then smaller
ones. Shoot for a pH between 9.5 and 10 and try to get there fairly
quicky.
5. After reaching the target pH range continue to stir and monitor pH.
It will drop as chalk precipitates. Continue to add small amounts of
slurry to keep the pH in the 9.7 - 10 region.
6. After all the chalk has dropped, the pH will continue to fall as CO2
from the air dissolves  but the rate will be much slower. This is your
signal to stop adding slurry.
7. Let the water sit for a while to let the chalk settle. During this
time CO2 will continue to dissolve bringing the pH down. Don't wait too
long or the precipitate will begin to dissolve again. pH 9.6 or so is a
good value at which to decant the water from over the precipitate.
8. Measure hardness and alkalinity to see how you did.

To increase the effectiveness of decarbonation add as much of a calcium
salt as you think you can stand before proceding as above. As a
guideline, 2 millimoles per liter of your favorite calcium salt amounts
to an addition of 200 ppm as CaCO3 calcium hardness. This will be in
addition to the hardness already in the water. Remember that hardness is
generally good and alkalinity generally bad for brewing though there are
always exceptions. Given this, one of the advantages of this trick is
that it compensates for the calcium lost in getting rid of the
alkalinity. After treatment the amount of hardness will be approximately
the sum of the original and added hardnesses minus the original
alkalinity. Alkalinity can be gotten down to the 20's by this method.

"Split Treatment": Some of you may be familiar with the so called split
treatment used to remove excessive magnesium with lime.  I have modified
this scheme to make it more effective at magnesium removal. In the
conventional implementation 2/3 of the water is treated with lime to the
point where the pH reaches 12. This causes magnesium hydroxde gel to
precipitate. The clear water is decanted and the remaining third of the
volume added to neutralize the excess hydroxide by means of the
bicarbonate ions in it. Obviously only 2/3 of the magnesium ions are
attacked. My modified "split" treatment doesn't split and attacks the
magnesium in the entire volume:

1. Procede as in the procedure above but continue to add lime until pH
12 is reached.
2. After insuring that the pH is stable at 12 let the Mg(OH)2 and CaCO3
settle.
3. When the water clears, decant to another vessel.
4. Add some chalk to serve as nucleation sites. Stir to allow additional
CaCO3 to precipitate.
5.While stirring aerate (as with an aquarium bubbler). Continue aeration
until pH falls back to pH 9.6. You are using the world's huge supply of
free acid - the air.
6. Allow to stand while precipitate settles and then decant.

The best source for lime for this purpose is "pickling lime" used to
adjust the pH of some types of pickles. It is found at stores that sell
canning supplies and is most likely to be found during the fall canning
season. If you contemplate using quick lime, be sure you know how to
handle and store it safely.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* *

A couple of questions on Dr Pivo's post. I've always understood
beerstone to be calcium oxalate (in fact one of the reasons for wanting
to replace calcium lost through decarbonation is to make sure that there
is plenty available through to the fermenter to precipitate oxalate thus
preventing oxalate haze). I've also always thought of nitric acid as a
strong oxidizing agent. I thought it passivated stainless by forming an
oxide layer thereon. ???

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Marc Sedam writes about sulfury Pils and Maibock using Wyeast 2278
(Czech Pils). You, Sir, are making lager beer. Enjoy it! Quips aside, a
fellow in my brewing club (BURP) once described this strain as "Smells
like a paper factory" (sulfur dioxide is used to bleach paper). I'm
surprised you didn't notice anything during primary which is when it's
really strong. What you are experiencing now is called "Jungbukett"
which DeClerk (or rather his translator) gives as "beer stench". One of
the reasons for lagering is to give this stuff the opportunity to take
flight. Venting the lagering vessel will help. What might work even
faster is to pressurize to say 20 - 30 psig CO2, let it sit for a couple
of days, then bleed the pressure (gradually so the beer doesn't explode
into foam and come rushing out the gas port) and repeat this cycle a
couple of times. The escaping CO2 should scrub out the SO2 faster than
just venting the gas produced by the yeast during lagering. Caution:
high pressure is reported to inhibit yeast so maybe you dont want to be
so dramatic as the numbers I just gave. You could pressurize to 10 psi
and bleed to 5 if you are worried about this.

Interestingly enough in view of some recent discussion of the
participation of copper in oxidation reactions in beer is that elemental
copper will fairly quiclky catalyze the oxidation of this sulfite to
tasteless sulfate. I don't recommend this treatment for you beer as
other things get oxidized as well (the beer turns dark).
- --
A. J. deLange
Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.




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