---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  south texas ("Mike Butterfield")
  Re: Cherry Beer (KMacneal)
  LUNAR RENDEZBREW 6 (michael wiley)
  Duvel / Golden vs. Dark Strong (Nathan Kanous)
  Cherry beer (William Frazier)
  Thanks to all the HBD Folks that came to KC (HoppyBrew)
  Stuck fermentation ("Strom C. Thacker")
  Re: Fermentability of Sugars (Al Korzonas)
  Re: Wild Heather Ale and other info (Spencer W Thomas)
  hydrometers ("Stephen Cavan")
  Anyone use the "Automatic" Mill Yet? ("Alan McKay")
  Re: Balling and Plato (Brian_Dixon)
  Brewing Classes, AHA Convention, Cherry Beer (Steve Potter)
  Re: Balling and Plato ("Cris Riley")
  Worging without a net/Mixed up about mash mixers (ThomasM923)


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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:11:43 +0200
From: "Mike Butterfield" <XPBRMB at sugar.org.za>
Subject: south texas

Hi all
In the next few weeks, I will be moving from South Africa to the 
McAllen/Weslaco area of the Rio Grande Valley in South Texas.
Anyone know of any homebrew clubs or supply stores in that area?
Private replies welcome, but I will only be at this email address until 30 
June (the next two days).

Regards
Mike Butterfield
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa


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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:48:55 EDT
From: KMacneal at aol.com
Subject: Re: Cherry Beer

In a message dated 6/28/99 1:29:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
clark at capital.net writes:

<< Does anyone have or can anyone direct
 me to a recipe that includes cherries?  It would have to be an extract
 recipe and not necessarily one that you have tried yourself.  Thank you for
 your help. >>

Charlie Papazian's Complete Joy of Homebrewing has a cherry stout recipe.

Keith MacNeal


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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:55:32 -0500
From: michael wiley <mwiley3 at pdq.net>
Subject: LUNAR RENDEZBREW 6

HAS A YEAR GONE BY ALREADY ????

August 8, 1999.

The Bay Area Mashtronauts proudly present LUNAR RENDEZBREW 6....

Entries due by July 31, 1999

1st Round Judging August 3 & 4...

2nd Round Judging August 7, 1999

All of the pertinent details can be found at:  http://www.mashtronauts.org

ENTER EARLY. ENTER OFTEN. 

COME PARTY "MASHTRONAUT" STYLE ON AUGUST 8, 1999 !!!!!



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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:00:41 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Duvel / Golden vs. Dark Strong

Greetings.  Duvel is a Golden Strong Ale.  Literature states that this
"golden ale" is relatively new to the Moortgart Brewery.  Jackson states
that they had previously made a much darker ale in the past.  Anybody have
experience using the available yeast (Wyeast 1388) in a "dark" strong ale?
Thoughts / results?  Recipe suggestions?  TIA.
nathan in madison, wi




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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:31:10 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Cherry beer

Dave Clark asks for a cherry beer recipe.  Here is a recipe from an old
homebrew book I have;

6 lbs   light malt extract syrup
1/2 lb  crushed pale malted barley
1/2 lb  crystal malt
1/2 oz  stale old hops (1 to 2 hbu)
10 to 12 lbs sour cherries
ale yeast
brettanomyces bruxellensis yeast culture
brettanomyces lambicus yeast culture

The instructions say to ferment the beer in a 4 gallon volume, then add the
cherries and allow a one month secondary fermentation, then rack to a third
carboy for a month to let the fermentation finish.  The recipe suggested
adding the cherries to 1 gallon of water, heating to 160F for a 30 minute
rest to pasteurize with subsequent cooling before adding to the main
fermentation.

This recipe is for a Kriek.  I tasted St. Louis Kriek in Amsterdam this
spring and it was excellent.  You might try Wyeast 3278 Belgian Lambic
blend.  If you don't want a sour beer just use a regular ale yeast and leave
out the bacteria.

        Bill Frazier
        Johnson County, Kansas




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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:42:26 EDT
From: HoppyBrew at aol.com
Subject: Thanks to all the HBD Folks that came to KC

Greetings,

Just wanted to drop a note to all of the HBDers that made their way to the 
AHA Nationals in KC. We had a larger group of people overall then what we 
expected.  I hope you all had a good time. I look forward to seeing you all 
next year in Michigan.

In Brewing,

John R. Weerts


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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:40:44 -0400
From: "Strom C. Thacker" <sthacker at bu.edu>
Subject: Stuck fermentation

Long-time lurker, first time poster.....

I recently experienced my first ever stuck fermentation.  The beer is a
German alt, based on Al K's recipe.  Here are the recipe and details for a
6 gal batch:

10lbs Czech light Munich malt
1lb Weyermann melanoidin malt
3/4 t CaCl2, split evenly between the mash and sparge (brewing water is
very soft)
Mashed 75 minutes at 156 degrees -- iodine test confirmed conversion
Ph in mash looked ok (5.2-5.3), though it's hard to tell with the test
papers I have
1oz Spalt pellets, 8.1%, boiled 60 min.
2oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh plugs, 4.8%, boiled 60 min.
OG = 1.062 (volume in primary = 4.75 gallons, so I will dilute with
preboiled water to reach 1.052)
2qt starter of Wyeast 1338 pitched at high kraeusen at 70 degrees
Oxygenated wort with pure O2
Fermented at ~68 degrees
SG at one week = 1.032

Fermentation took off quickly (less than 5 hours).  By the next morning (15
hours), there was a constant stream of bubbles coming out of the airlock.
By that evening, about 24 hours after pitching, the kraeusen had begun to
fall back and activity was much slower.  By the following morning (approx.
36 hours after pitching), all apparent activity had ceased.

At one week, I racked to another carboy ( SG = 1.032) and pitched a new 2qt
starter of ale yeast (cultured from a local brewery, I believe) at high
kraeusen.  I realize that I am technically underpitching, but much less so
than with other beers I have brewed in the past.  The oxygen setup is also
relatively new to my process, and that should have helped.

Now, at the 10 day mark, there is still no activity.

This is my first experience with the 1338 yeast.  Any thoughts on why this
might have happened?  Any remedies or suggestions for rescuing this beer?
Strom Thacker
Newton, MA


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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:26:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Re: Fermentability of Sugars

Dave writes:
>[DRB -Note the use of the term SG
>in the following table and not FG,
>since I assume these measurements
>were made on commercial beers,
>not the end of the fermentation in
>which the term FG would be appropriate.]

I think you may be reading more into this than was meant, but this
is a minor point... just wanted to point out that I'm free to
not believe your "spin" if I choose to.

[snip]

>Lager yeasts do in fact remove all the
>oligosaccharides ( including malto-triose and
>malto-tetraose) if given a chance ( see numbers
>7, 11 and 12).

I think this is a big leap and nowhere did I read anything to
imply this.  There are many more oligosaccharides than just
maltotriose and maltotetrose and I didn't read anywhere in
this table or supporting quotes that all other oligosaccharides
were consumed by the yeast.  I think you are jumping to
conclusions here, Dave and I don't agree.

>I would interpret numbers for
>Lagers 8, 13, 14 ,15 as either an ale yeast was
>used  ( this was (is?) a not uncommon practice
>in the UK) or the fermentation was terminated
>after the primary fermentation by chilling and
>filtering. This is a common brewery practice
>today, as you know, especially with the
>0.45 micron filters being used.

Lagers are filtered almost universally, but ales in the UK
are far less likely to be filtered.  *Most* aren't, especially
what's called "Real Ale" or "Cask-conditioned" ales, because
*BY DEFINITION* they are unfiltered.

>What does this mean? Commercial ales are
>not always fermented to dryness. Sugar(s)
>is added after the fermentation in some styles.
>Given time, lager yeasts *can* totally remove
>all of the oligosaccharides including malto-triose
>and malto-tetraose, nevertheless,

Again, you are jumping to conclusions.

>commercial lager brewers do not always
>allow the beer to ferment to dryness.

I will agree with you there and although I didn't say anything earlier,
I do believe that Clinitest data from filtered lagers is of marginal
interest and really shouldn't be considered to be datapoints in
support of my side of this disagreement.  My contention is with bottle-
conditioned commercial beers and unfiltered homebrewed beers.

Al.


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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:29:38 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Wild Heather Ale and other info 

Paul Campbell writes (relaying info from a BBC show):

    Wild Heather Ale (makes 30 pints) 
    ---------------------------------
    Ingredients: 

	 2.5 kg milled pale malted barley 
	 250 g milled crystal malt 
	 cold water 
	 small pieces of fat (animal or vegetable) 
	 8 large handfuls heather flowers 
	 2 handful bog myrtle leaves 
***      ^^^^^^^^^
	 2 teaspoons baker's yeast or beer yeast 
	 1 level teaspoon sugar or honey per 750 ml bottle 

>From my experience, this is a huge quantity of bog myrtle (myrica
gale, aka "sweet gale").  I usually use a few grams at a time of the
dried stuff.  I assume they're talking fresh leaves here, which are
usually less potent than dried, but still...

Some brewers report psychotropic effects from bog myrtle.  I am
enclosing a post I made to the HBD in 1993 with some details.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)


Posting 2: Extracted from file:  1230
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 93 12:29:21 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Sweet Gale (Bog Myrtle)

Today, I was reviewing some books on brewing before taking them
back to the library, to see what I might want to copy for my files,
and re-encountered this passage from Odd Nordland's _Brewing and Beer
Tradition on Norway_  I should note that the quotations come from
questionaires filled out by Norwegians about their knowledge and
recollection of old brewing practices.

    The important part played by the grut of Central Europe ... has
    already been discussed  From the fourteenth to the seventeenth
    century, the most important ingredient of this mixture of dried leaves
    and spices was bog myrtle, Myrica gale, which will here also be
    referred to as pors [presumably the Norwegian name].

    The bot myrtle was an important plant in medieval Norway, being
    mentioned as early as in fourteenth-century laws. ... rent for
    farms could be paid in bog myrtle ...

    ... bog myrtle occurs as one of the plants that could be used
    for flavouring ale: `To add a strong flavour to the ale, and to
    make it heady, pors was put into it.  ... It was gathered in
    autumn, and the leaves were also taken.' `When this plant was
    used, the ale was strong.  It went to one's head.  They spoke of
    having a "Christmas head".'

    ... In northern Hordaland, small quantities of pors were added to
    the Christmas ale until the turn of the century.

    ... `The ale was flavoured with hops mixed with pors.  It was
    slightly yellowish, and had a fresh, sweet taste.  It was said
    locally that when one drank much of it, it was strongly
    intoxicating, with unpleasant after-effects.'

    ...

    That bog myrtle produces a special effect when added to ale is
    ... well documented in our material, and in earlier sources ...
    Linnaeus ... mention[s] the especially intoxicating effects ...

    ... Does bog myrtle possess the properties that were once ascribed
    to it...? ... chemical analysis has revealed no such properties.
    [One writer] is inclined to believe that there must be some
    substance in the bog myrtle that has the effect described.  But he
    is also open to the suggestion that the belief in a special effect
    gave rise to an increased consumption [that] produced effects of
    the kind described. ... The solution of these problems would ...
    require a compleicated analysis, and as it is of little practical
    value to find the cause of the alleged headaches of bygone ages,
    the question will probably remain unsolved.

 ...

=Spencer



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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:59:14 -0600
From: "Stephen Cavan" <paddock_pd at qlo.com>
Subject: hydrometers

Richard Lehrl asked about hydrometers. There was some mention that a
fellow named Balling invented the unit in 1843, but I would hasten to
make a slight correction. The ancient Greeks invented this thing and
called it a "baryllion".

I'm sure some one will fill in the proper details here, as I am more of
a classicist than early modern, but it seems to me the hydrometer came
into use about 1780. Its use combined with the therometer lead to the
end of Porter brewed from 'blown' or 'brown' malts. The most popular
design in England was that of Twaddle, while Beaume's was used widely on
the continent.

Stephen Cavan
Dept of Classics
University of Sask


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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:40:40 -0400
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com>
Subject: Anyone use the "Automatic" Mill Yet?

Hi folks,

I see there is a new mill out for us homebrewers.  There is a
picture and description of it at the St Pats website at :
http://www.stpats.com/mills.htm

>From the site :
"Excellent new mill made by commercial mill manufacturer. 
 Adjustable steel rollers (both ends). Hand crank easily driven 
 by electric drill. All metal construction including hopper and 
 side plates. Base made of hard plastic. Best homebrew mill 
 ever made. Grains are crushed, not ground, for minimal flour. 
 Includes 5 gallon pail."

Does anyone have any experience with it, and can offer some
comments on how good it is?  Admittedly it's a bit pricey at
$169.50, but it sure looks like a great mill.  Anyone know
who this "commercial manufacturer" is?

cheers,
 -Alan

- --
Alan McKay
OS Support			amckay at nortelnetworks.com
Small Site Integration		613-765-6843 (ESN 395)
Nortel Networks
Internal : http://zftzb00d/alanmckay/
All opinions expressed are my own.


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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:01:22 -0700
From: Brian_Dixon at ex.cv.hp.com
Subject: Re: Balling and Plato

[snip]
> I would be interested to know a little bit about Balling, but can't find any
> information about him. Does anyone know at least his fill name and
> birth/death dates?
> Thank you
> Richard

Can't give you birth/death dates, but my research for my article on calibrating
hydrometers (BrewingTechniques) showed his full name to be Carl Joseph Napoleon
Balling, and he produced his tables in 1843 (and they included errors ... that's
why Plato made new ones.)

Brian



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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:12:07 CDT
From: Steve Potter <potter_s_l at hotmail.com>
Subject: Brewing Classes, AHA Convention, Cherry Beer

On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Wayne writes>
>Steve Potter will no doubt point out that this fall, Milwaukee Area 
> >Technical College will be offering a Brewing Certificate Program.

Gee Wayne, I didn't realize that my status as unofficial cheer leader for 
the MATC brewing program was that transparent...now where did I put those 
pom-poms 8^).

Actually I don't have any more information on the Certificate program, but I 
do have the dates for the weekend workshops and the internet classes.

Workshops (held in West Allis, WI)
Sensory Evaluation II, Advanced Workshop - September 25
Brewing Calculations for the Commercial and Home Brewer - October 16
A Day in a Microbrewery - November 6

Internet Classes
Malt - Sept 13 through October 29
Water - September 13 through October 29
Hops - November 1 through December 17
Yeast - November 1 through December 17

For more info check out the web page at
http://online.milwaukee.tec.wi.us/foods431/promopage.htm

I just got back from Kansas City and I must say that it was a great time.  
The KC clubs did a great job.  The beer was flowing like...well like beer.  
There were many good seminars and you just couldn't help learning a lot 
given the expertise of those who attended. For those of you with a sense of 
humor check out the AlK picture in the gallery area at www.hbd.org/1stdraft 
 - yes that is a Clinitest assay being done.

Dave Clark inquired about an extract recipe for cherry beer.  I don't have 
one, but I can give you a few clues about New Glaris Belgian Red.  Start out 
with a recipe for a good flanders brown.  Ferment it and then stuff your 
secondary full of as many crushed cherries as will fit and pour the flanders 
brown over.  Finish fermentation.  Drink and smile.



_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com


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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:31:42 -0500
From: "Cris Riley" <crisriley at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Balling and Plato

I'm no expert, but a little searching revealed the following:

It appears that Balling's full name is Carl Joseph Napoleon Balling often
referred to as C J N Balling.  I found one reference to K J N Balling.  Not
surprising that Carl might have been spelled with a K.

It also appears that he was a Czech physicist.  And possibly published a
book or paper titled "Die Bierbrauerei".

Hope this helps.

~cr~





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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:00:54 EDT
From: ThomasM923 at aol.com
Subject: Worging without a net/Mixed up about mash mixers

In honor of Tim Anderson I am going to disable the AOL spell checker just 
this one time. 

I read with interest Joy Hansen's post concerning his mixing device. It seems 
to be more of a wort mixing/scraper kind of device than a mash mixer; very 
innovative nonetheless. One thing I wanted to respond to was the price he 
paid for his motor. I'm sure he had his reasons for purchasing that motor, 
but there are a couple of surplus mail-order places I know of that have gear 
motors for quite a bit less than the 80$ that Joy paid.

They are:

Surplus Center
Lincoln, NE
(800) 488-3407

C and H Sales Company
Pasadena, CA
(800) 325-9465
http://www.candhsales.com

I've purchased items from both places and have been pleased with the items 
and the service.

I was initially going to write this post to recommend a motor in the C and H 
catalog for anyone that was looking for one to build an inexpensive mash 
mixer with. It is a 55 RPM gearhead motor with 20 inch-pounds of torque for 
$7.95 (stock # ACGM7800). In order to boost the torque and reduce the speed 
you would need to gear it down a bit. In the same catalog there are miniature 
chain sprockets that will fit the shaft of this motor, along with the 
corresponding roller chain. This would add another $6.00 to the price and 
give you a speed of 33 RPM with torque of about 33 inch-pounds. Chain driven 
mash mixer...cool! And cheap.

Then it dawned on me. I have no idea how much torque is needed to mix the 
average mash. 33 inch-pounds might not be enough. So---I'd like to ask anyone 
that has set up a mixing system to share with the rest of us some details 
about your system like:

Torque in inch-pounds (or foot-pounds) or HP of motor and gear ratio
Approximate area of mixing device
Maximum size of mash
Ratio of water to grist
Any problems encountered

If anyone has experimented with different mixing blade shapes, that info 
would also be useful.

Thanks in advance,
(spell checker back on overdrive)
Thomas Murray
Maplewood, NJ


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