---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  That Outrageous Sexist Photo ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  Just who IS Dr. Pivo? (part 1) ("Dr. Pivo")
  Just who IS Dr. Pivo, and what is science? (Part the 2) ("Dr. Pivo")
  Re: Zymurgy V22 No4 ("John W. Rhymes")
  AHA vs BJCP Guidelines (David Houseman)
  Re: Sexist photo and dishwashers (Kris G. Mueller)
  re: 3/8" vs 1/2" valves (John_E_Schnupp)
  CAPS ("Frank J. Russo")
  Just who IS Dr. Pivo, and how 'bout them Czech beers (part your hair) ("Dr. Pivo")
  RIMS Controllers and Design (WayneM38)
  strawberry and/or rhubarb (John_E_Schnupp)
  lactose dose for sweet stout ("Thomas O'Connor")
  Mashing 6 row wheat malt ("Michael Maag")
  Water Salts ("Fred L. Johnson")
  Real Trappist (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* Subscribe to the Distilled Beverage Digest
* Send "subscribe" in body of note to dbd-request@hbd.org
* Subscribe to the Home Vintners' Digest
* Send "subscribe" in body of note to hvd-request@hbd.org

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. 
**SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
  the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!

Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow"

Back issues are available via:

  HTML from...
        http://hbd.org
  Anonymous ftp from...
	ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests
	ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
  AFS users can find it under...
        /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org 
  (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be 
  reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless 
  EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests
  CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution
  unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer.
COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the
  author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and
  reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the 
  author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in
  any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally
  appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the
  above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a
  commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their
  newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are
  attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...)

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 20:07:39 +1000
From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au>
Subject: That Outrageous Sexist Photo

Yes Kris,
           Unfortunately Jill got a glimpse of the offending photo as I was
lounging back on the sofa flicking through Zymurgy and musing over what the
little sweetie might be cooking for dinner. That was the end of my night! I
was severely beaten about the head with the offending magazine for having
the audacity to read such outrageous sexist tripe. Then (and with one of my
prized homebrews in the other hand) the dishwasher was ripped
unceremoniously from the kitchen and hurled into the swimming pool (she's a
feisty little piece when stirred) whereupon I was told I could go and fish
it out if I wanted a plate upon which to eat my dinner! Or alternately join
it in the swimming pool. Despite being winter here I opted for the later.
For heavens sake Zymurgy, can't you tone it down a bit?

Genuine SNAG
Phil Yates.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 22:28:25 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se>
Subject: Just who IS Dr. Pivo? (part 1)

I thought maybe I could shut the door on some of the more mundane topics
(HSA and the like).  I thought by finding out that it made no difference
at all whether you treat the wort rough as guts, or treat it gently, 
might be some information worth passing on. 

Boy was I naive.

You see this was a lager I've made a few (hundred) times, and I think I
pretty much know when it is as I like it best, and that's the time I
wondered about.

It has been pointed out that if you ship your beer around to homebrewing
contests (exposing it to heat and agitation, and let it get old) it may
(HSA) have an effect.

Don't know, and don't care.  That's already defining conditions that
aren't good for the beer.  The only thing I can say for certain about a
beer that is allowed to get warmed and shaken (and dare I say... left to
the hands of STRANGERS!) is that it is certain to be in worse shape than
it's twin that stayed at home where it should have been.

Funny thing.  I've been to a LOT of breweries that can make better beer
than me (an accolade I grudgingly, yet finally with true joy release),
yet I can't find a single product in the bottle shop that is better than
what I've got here at home... they just can't get it to me undamaged...
and isn't that why we make it ourselves?

My presumptuosness in assuming that other homebrewers also might be
interested in making the best beer possible, has caused folks here to
call into question my credibility, those of my tasters, and my very
name!

I'm a bit sensative on the subject of my "tasters". You see, they're
all "Dr. Pivo" too, and suffer from the same  extreme dissadvantage...
they were all originally taught to brew by me, or a spin off from those
"students".  I gave a course in brewing in 1987, and whatever I did
right or wrong in teaching it, I am proud to say that none of  those
people brews using my techniques today, and none of them brews like each
other, and I am continually learning from them.  

Maybe it was a good thing to instill in them "these are the principles
of what we're pretty sure of, these are some of the different ways that
"classic" beers are made, and this is some of the stuff that I've found
can trip you up....the rest you're just going to have to figure out what
works for you." 

We were even doing blind tastings during the course, of variables that
we introduced, to see where each might like to head.

Does this sound a bit scary?  That "the truth" might not be a static
concept?

Some of them were creeping around cellars in Czechoslovakia with me as
early as 1984 (though they hadn't begun brewing yet, they sure were
"tasting"!), and I am CERTAIN that they have far more experience than
any schooled tasters at a homebrew meet, in tasting the Classic
"prototypes" of beer at source, rather than judging from the hollow echo
that an exported bottle represents.

Some folks seem to set the "golden standard" of homebrewing through
competitions.  I've mentioned that I don't really see the point.  A few
of the lads have though.  One won the "best lager in the nation" and
another took second as "peoples choice" (the public was allowed to taste
and vote).  I know neither of them enter any more.  I know both of them
have made far better beers than the ones they entered then.

When I first connected up to the "net" and started fishing around for
brewing info, I was a bit shocked.  I kept thinking: "Yes, I used to
believe that too, and I remember which "homebrewing" book, I got it
from."

I found Alan McKay's well organised site, and asked if I might post some
rather "contrary" brewing experiences there (I knew they were far afield
from the homogeneity spouted here).

One thing that I made very clear in the beginning with Alan, and to
which he generously complied: it was not to focus on me as an
individual, but to represent the sort of collected brewing experience in
this part of the world... I was really proud of what these guys did
(admittedly perhaps set off on the wrong foot by me), plus what I have
learned from long standing relationships with German and Czech
brewmasters. 

Another point that I was adament about, was that my curricular and
professional background was not to be brought into it.... You see, I
learned from that first course, that the first people who started
turning out nice beers were an electrician, a carpenter, and a musician,
whereas the people with highly academic backgrounds seemed to get too
tied up in the details, and missed "the big picture".  

I happen to think you can explain some quite complex
theory with simpler language, and familiar analogies.  I also don't
think complex theory is necessary to make excellent beer.  Some of the
local lads don't know the chemical formula for water, but turn out some
very nice beers, are creative, and figure things out on their own that I
can learn from, and have very distinguishing pallates.

In short, you can frighten away some very talented people by diving too
hard into "jargon".

So Dr. Pivo is sometimes "me" and sometimes someone else.... anybody can
borrow the title if they wish.... presuming they have the right
attitude.  Dr. Pivo wasn't even me, when we had our 10 year jubileum,
and someone decided that everyone would be assigned a brass instrument
that they had two months to learn and then perform on stage as "Dr.
Pivo's Tyrolean Orchestra". 

 It wasn't my idea,

and I wasn't Dr.Pivo.... I was just another guy in the trombone section,
with a pair of lederhausen that were too tight around the bum (although
I will admit, I did write the arrangement of the Cream classic "Sunshine
of Your Love"for tyrolean orchestration -- if you can imagine such a
cacophony).

We should have passed out diapers ahead of time.... there wasn't a dry
stool in the house  There is nothing funnier that a bunch of grownups
trying sincerely to do something they can't possibly succeed at.
Curiously, one Czech there had just come up from Ceske Budjovice with a
fresh keg of Budvar to that party... naturally all the lads had their
finest fare there, as well. 

The next day when we cleaned up, the Budvar keg was the only one that
had anything left in it.  I wouldn't take that as any statement about
the quality of the beers there, though.... they weren't judged by a
"trained taster".

Even in Czecho I'm not always "Dr.Pivo".  I wasn't when a brewmaster and
I had a handstand walking contest across the cellar floor (can you
imagine two middle age old farts inguaging in such nonsense?).... There
I am teasingly called the Czech equivalent for "golden tongue", since I
always "taste" which changes they have made since my last visit.

I wasn't even Dr. Pivo when I sat in in the orchestra that his son
played drums in.... the son who has now grown up, gone on, and is nearly
finished with his "fermentation technology" five year engineering degree
in Prague. 

At some breweries there, I am "Dr. Pivo".  I was at the opening of a
brewery, where I was asked to pose before a newspaper photographer
beside the brew master.  The photographer passed us a piece of paper to
write our names on, and when the brewmaster saw me write my name, as
"Dr. Pivo", he was no slower. 
Yep, we were published in the newspaper as "Dr. Pivo and Ing. Chmel
(Engineer Hops)".  Now THAT guy had the attitude, and can borrow the
title any time.... except now he has his own.

No, I think "Dr: Pivo" is a collection of the antithesis of "librarians"
of the HBD.  We all kind of like to "find out" what's really going on,
and they believe in the printed word. We are irreverent, curious, and
irrascible, and I believe that's how our beers taste..... I find their
writing dogmatic, and condescending.... I hope their beers don't reflect
that.

GAWD, we need a lot more good beer in this world.




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 13:34:55 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se>
Subject: Just who IS Dr. Pivo, and what is science? (Part the 2)

A repetitive theme here, seems to be just how important the invocation
of "science" is when talking about just making beer at home.

I happen to think that it's "real" important.

Unfortunately, the major (and vocal, and dominant) part of this forum
seems either ignorant of, or has decided to completely ignore everything
that "science" is based on.

Quite frankly, as I mentioned above, I think there is far too much
delving into razz-a-matazz words, which can intimidate the
non-initiated, without it ever GOING anywhere.

The first part of science, doing the background research, and then
formulating a "hypothesis" is done here ad infinitum (albeit it seems to
be a teeny-tiny collective library in which one can do a literature
search).  But the job is not done until one has designed a way of
testing the theory (and making sure you are really finding out what you
think you are), and then DOING THE BLOODY EXPERIMENT!

It just never goes that far here... at least not amongst the most band
consuming.

In the midst of my most vitriolic, and physically ill feeling moments
about what some of the individuals of this forum has done, and is doing
to a hobby I am passionately attached to.... I read:

>  large yeast experiment - conclusions posted
 
by one called Dave Whitman.

I stand on a far corner of the planet and applaude you, sir.

Why is there not more of this stuff done?  Why does the "gang of four"
never have a single data point, EVER? Why does a neutral figure (Louis
Bonham) have to come in and settle a most boring argument and bickering,
when each of these lads could have figured out the answer themselves if
they spent just half the time they spend preaching from their keyboards,
playing with their beers in an organized manner?

beats me.

I guess that is what kind of "gripes" me about the most frequent
posters.  They never try and find anything out, or test anything, but
just spout their opinions. Are you truly that little curious? 

The shining exception to this is AJ De Lange, who actually "measures"
things, and even measured a chemical at one third of the level I
reported (to my embarrassment).  I have no reason to doubt my original
source on that, nor do I have any reason to doubt AJ's measurements...
he gives me an impression of being impeccably honest and sincere.   I
would just LOVE to have AJ and his test tubes stuffed into my rucksack,
the next time I do a Czecho cellar wandering, or even poking around in
my own cellar ("and in this room we have...").   I bet we could find out
all kinds of neat stuff!   What I wouldn't like to see AJ do, is get
embroiled in one of these "wars of the personality"...you seem too noble
for such base behaviour. Leave that to fools like me, who seem to
continually have his lance pointed at some windmill or another.... 

Hell. I'm still trying to teach that dog, my friend "Pavlov" gave me, to
stop drooling on my thigh every time the phone rings.... and if that
hound doesn't catch on soon, I may have to borrow Phil and Jill Yate's
"Wombat prod".

What I have long thought, is all these people who are brewing out there,
and these homebrew clubs, could create a GREAT opportunity to find out a
lot of things about brewing beer, just by being a bit organised about
how you set up some experiments.

I had intended to write a three part article as an aid to people who
would like to do this kind of stuff.  The first would be some general
principles about how to set up experiments, and look at the results. 
The second was to describe how to set up a "triangle test" (easy to do,
and a "great" "homebrewing club" project). The third would be a "crib
sheet" where you could look  up your number of tasters, and then see how
many of them had to correctly identify the odd beer out, before you had
a "significant" difference.  I finished the first one last year, and
just haven't gotten the ol' "thumb out", for the other two, so I guess
I'll just have the first one up now.... suggested "links" will take you
no-where. For the curious, it's at...
http://www.bodensatz.com/homebrew/columns/jirvine/science.html

I actually quite enjoy some of the "Biochemical meanderings" done here,
as I think Biochemistry is a noble true science.  I cringe when people
begin a "Brewing Science" pontification, because these industrial
sciences just aren't that solid.... and why should they be?

Imagine this:

"Hey Boss.  I think I have figured out a way to considerably improve the
flavour of our beer.  Of course, it becomes a bit less stable, so we
won't be able to ship it so easily, and shelf life will be dramatically
reduced.  Oh yeah, it takes a lot longer, is more labour intensive, and
requires more costly raw materials as well.... but it really does
improve the flavour of the beer."

Yeh.  I bet that guy is just going to get funding money dumped on him.

The guy who WILL get funded, is the guy who "proves" that the cheapest
method "just happens" to make the best beer.

And this will create (a tiny little) rack of literature that all says
the same thing, and may have no relevance at all to making the "best"
beer.

Funny thing.  I've been to many breweries that make better beer than I,
but I can't find anything in a bottle shop that I enjoy as much as my
own.... the people who make the GREAT stuff, just can't transport it to
me.

I thought that this was a self assured assumption that was the driving
force behind most serious homebrewers.... beer is a fresh product.

Apparently not here.  I think the HBD might be more appropriately
titled: AIBTH ("Applications of Industrial Brewing Techniques at Home").

I can even imagine some regions in the world where if I was living in
close enough proximity to some breweries, I probably wouldn't brew
myself.

Curiously, the most vocal of the HBD contributors, seem to be isolated
(if I understand the addresses correctly) to a quite tiny little
geographic region in the north east of the United States..... my
experience has been that that is NOT one of the areas where the beer is
so good it would make me give up brewing.

I guess they know everything about brewing... except how to make it, or
their results are being kept a commercial secret.




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 15:18:31 +0000
From: "John W. Rhymes" <jwrhymes at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Zymurgy V22 No4

Gerry Blalak asks:
 
>  Am I the only one who read a condemnation for the HBD, 
> rec.crafts.brewing, The Brewery and all the other pages and forums we hold so 
> dear (and, by association, ALL OF US) in the quotes from Heller and Papazian 
> in Sperazza's article swiped from Great Lakes Brewing News to fill the pages 
> of the otherwise dying Zymurgy?!?

You may not be the only one, but I've got to disagree with you.  A 
novice looking on the Internet for homebrewing and seeing heavy 
discussions of RIMS, enzymatic pathways, and such (not to mention the 
Clinitest debates) could be overwhelmed.  The complex topics that 
interest advanced brewers could, as Heller says, scare away novices 
and "boggle people's minds".  Papazian notes that many of the forums 
are "very sophisticated" (damn him for his impudence! ;-)  The only 
real condemnation I saw was for "virtual" homebrew suppliers on the 
Internet who exist only as a web site and a phone number.

The HBD probably is less novice-friendly now than it was when I 
started brewing in 1993.  It has evolved into one of the best sources 
of technical information on the Internet.  Is this a bad thing?  I 
think not, because there are many more sources of basic information 
now than there were in years past, and a lot more advanced 
information available.  We just need to make sure that we do make 
everyone feel welcome.

>  And Papazian with his "grass roots" comment - didn''t the HBD website 
> admonish the AHA to get back to their roots YEARS AGO? It seems to take a 
> brick through their window in the form of a perceived general decline in all 
> things brewing to wake them up. 

Your comments on Charlie P's clueless response to Seth Auger on the 
mini-mash were right on target.  He wasn't paying attention to what 
was really going on.  Likewise, the AHA has been asleep at the wheel 
in the past, but we do need to recognize that there are signs they 
are trying to get on track.  We need to keep providing "constructive 
feedback", and recognize that there are benefits to having a national 
group to speak for the hobby.

The general thrust of the article was that the hobby overall is in a 
state of decline.  The best way for us to ensure the viability of 
homebrewing is to bring in new brewers, and there is no better 
introduction than to give them a chance to brew with an experienced 
brewer.  We need to keep our ears open and volunteer to help out 
folks who are getting started.

 

John W. Rhymes -- Birmingham, Alabama
jwrhymes at mindspring.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 17:13:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Houseman <dhousema at cccbi.org>
Subject: AHA vs BJCP Guidelines

Curt Speaker asks why the two guidelines are different.  Good question.
Basically I believe it was just interpretation of the styles, after all the
classic examples of the styles speak for themselves no matter what we may
say.  But there are lots of examples of most of the styles, so some
variations must be accounted for.  Otherwise the guidelines would just be
the specs for one example for each style and competitions would have brewers
only trying to get close to that one commerical example.

But help is on the way.  By way of a status report I can say that the BJCP
Style Guide Committee is close to completing a new, complete rewrite of its
style guide.  Hopefully these will be ready to vote on by the BJCP Board
within a month or so at which time it's expected to be posted on the BJCP
web site.

Also, at the AHA convention in Kansas City, the AHA, through its Board of
Advisors, has agreed to accept the new BJCP Style Guide for their use in
Sanctioned Competitions and the National Homebrew Competition for 2000 and
beyond, once these have been accepted by the BJCP Board.  

We also expect to have annual (or bi-annual) updates that will begin at the
end of March and conclude by October 1st of each (every other) year.  So we
expect this style guide to be a living document that will change as the
hobby changes and styles become popular homebrew styles or fall out of favor
or as more information is available to update the existing styles.

Just remember that this is only a status report and that it's not beer soup yet.

Dave Houseman
BJCP MidAtlantic Representative
AHA Board of Advisors



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 18:42:28 -0400
From: Kris_G._Mueller at umit.maine.edu (Kris G. Mueller)
Subject: Re: Sexist photo and dishwashers 


Here are a sampling of the responses I received for my comment on the
housewife photo in the new Zymurgy. I think they are very
dissapointing. How can we expect to get women interested in homebrewing
if they are met with sexist photos in the leading magazine and sexist
comments on-line? I think the worst part about the article was on the
next page was "Mr. Perfect 50's guy" enjoying the beer that his wife
cleaned up. Do we need to reinforce these stereotypes, or should we
work to change them. Its not about PC hypersensitivity for the sake of
something to do, but to watch out for overt sexism, and to welcome
women into homebrewing. Wasn't it also strange that the very same
magazine held an article about a successful businesswoman/brewer?
Shouldn't there be some consistancy?

mikey at swampgas.com (Michael A. Owings)"Nah -- I thought she was kinda
hot..."

Bill_Rehm at DeluxeData.com  "Why can't people just lighten up!  It's just
a picture in a magazine, I'm sure many women have used dishwashers!"

I really hope that you were kidding. If not...just another thing for
the hyper-politically correct crowd to get all worked up  about. I
guess I could get just as upset everytime I see a commercial or
advertisement for a male underneath his car changing his oil. Afterall,
there must be a bunch of women in the world that change their own oil.
More people need to follow Charlie P's view on life--RELAW, DON'T
WORRY, HAVE A HOMEBREW!

Kris,
Pull down your PC sensitivity antenna and relax will ya?  Have a great
4th!

Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but I thought these points needed
to be made.
Kris Mueller
kris_mueller at umit.maine.edu



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 17:30:34 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: re: 3/8" vs 1/2" valves

>> Why would I want a 1/2" valve?

>While I don't use pumps personally, my understanding is that most mag
>pumps want to be fed by a pipe of the same diameter as the pump inlet
>- -- usually 1/2". Obviously there are ways around this (like using a
>grant with a 1/2" outlet) but I would imagine having a 1/2" outlet on
>the kettle would be more convenient.

As long as the outlet is smaller than the inlet then the pump (assuming
it is magnetic coupled) should be ok.

I used 1/2" valves because it's harder to find 3/8" stuff (especially
solder connection stuff).

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Dirty Laundry Brewery
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 21:13:43 -0400
From: "Frank J. Russo" <FJRusso at coastalnet.com>
Subject: CAPS

Greetings Brew Buddies!!

By the way my subject line is referring to the Classic American Pilsner not
the closure on the bottles.
Question is: When cooking corn, be it flaked maze, corn meal or corn grits,
what am I trying to accomplish?  I have seen a number of discussion of how
long to cook but not the reason for why.

Can someone help me here?

Frank Russo
Havelock, NC
FJRusso at Coastalnet.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 04:04:58 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se>
Subject: Just who IS Dr. Pivo, and how 'bout them Czech beers (part your hair)

So, perhaps I sound a bit bitter?

You bet.  Bitter as hell. Brewing and everything associated with beer
has always been quite pleasant to me.... but it is not a pleasant
experience argueing about "nothing" here.  An interesting topic recently
came up (the use of sucrose in brewing) that I have some interesting
information on. 

The stuff on using it in the boil, I've got from some
commercial users (they even managed to slip it past "golden tongue"
without it being correctly identified, and there are some VERY famous
brands that had done it unbeknownst to me).

The stuff on using it as a priming agent I got from another "Dr. Pivo". 
This one was a Dutchman working in Switzerland, so I never got to taste
his stuff, but his simple yet ingenious little experiment implies that
your priming agent can have PROFOUND effects on final flavour.

Do you think I want to present this information in detail here?

Why.... this is not written in any homebrew books, so I'm sure would
raise a storm of argumentation.

No thanks.

Anyway.  One thing the librarians have been extremely successfull at, is
making people feel like they walked into a strange playground and kicked
the ball over the fence.  These children have already decided that they
don't want anyone else in the game, and I'll just join the ranks of
those that said "ok, this is just not productive".

I would like to say that there is a fair amount of worthwhile
information coming in here... it just gets smothered in the worthless
crap and the bickering.

Some of the best stuff is "incendental"... like getting real numbers on
chloride ion concentrations for stainless corrosion from a metalurgist,
or advice from a "fridge" guy on how to get the most out of your unit.

I am about to bow out of here, and would like to stretch out a big
"thanks" to those worthwhile contributors, and especially the very
gratifying personal email I've received, which I have been so rude that
I haven't managed to respond to all of.

I thought in parting, I might be able to offer a "service" to you.  I
think it might be fairly well known by now, that I have been in and
about the brewing scene for quite a while, but since my first visit to
Czechoslovakia in 1983, my heart was sort of won over by that style ("Ah
yes, now I get it!  All of those flavours that other beers were just
hinting at, are here in force, and in balance!").

I have since enjoyed a very intimate and confidential contact there and
it makes me walk a bit of a knife's edge sometimes.  Is this "general
brewing knowledge" or "in house secrets"?  Should it be shared or not?

I get a fair ammount of private email with questions where somtimes I
just plain don't know the answer, and sometimes I don't know if it is
something I can divulge.

On previous trips, I've offered my services as an emmisary for both HBD
and RCB to take specific questions there.  I've done what I could in
that way, but still puts me in a funny position when chatting "are they
telling this to me, or are they telling this to be passed on?"

I've got a better idea!

Why not ask them yourselves?

I got one of these the other day

> This is a little surprise for you! This is a one letter with perfect
> englisch for you from ing. Chmel from Czech republic.  So, this is my
> question. I will be in Sweden from 17.7.1999 to 1.8.1999 and the question
> is, if it is  posible visit you for some days in your home. I want test your
> super-beer and bring some beer from the best brewery in Czech - of course
<snip>

And the very next day I got a call from another brewmaster in Czecho who
is coming to visit (we can call him Sladek Jedeno) and he will be
arriving on this coming Tuesday (99-07-06).

So what I thought would be nice, was if you have any questions you want
answered directly about how to make Czech beer, why not send them to me
as a private email?  I've not asked either if they are willing to take
part in this, but they are pretty generous people and passionate about
good beer.

It would be kind of nice for me to avoid being the "filter", and they
can decide what they want and do not want to respond to.

So "Sladek Jedeno" is very old in the brewing game and knows what's gone
on from the most classic "hands on" methods, to the latest advances
within the industry.

"Ing. Chmel" is relatively young, and can probably still crunch a
differential equation for you if you have to.

They have the same classic schooling separated by a few decades, and
come from two different brewery traditions.

So if you think up something you want to know just send it on.... all I
can do is ask them.

I will warn ahead of time, that I can't guarantee that all things will
be treated seriously.... you see, there's quite a bit of "Dr. Pivo" in
these clowns too, and I'm sure we'll be spending most of our time
ransacking my cellar and behaving like idiots.

In closing, I'd like to leave you with one of my creations (I hate to
use the word "invention", somebody just MUST have discovered this before
me).

It's the "moon" ASCII....

(*)

Dr. Pivo, in all of its forms.

PS I have included none of the names of any of the other Dr. Pivos,
either my "tasters", or brewmasters,  as I'm quite sure they do not want
to be included here.

(now let's see, I've just racked 250 liters...I did half
strictly anaerobically, and the other half "normal", put one of each in
the 8C room, and one of each.......................................


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 22:47:14 EDT
From: WayneM38 at aol.com
Subject: RIMS Controllers and Design

<< Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 10:24:28
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: RIMS Controllers

Jonathan Peakall posted:
>Are there functional and or quality problems with RIMS?

"C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net> replied:
The only chronic type problem I have had is low recirculation flow.  In my
system, the mash dT/dt between rests is proporational to the flow, hence,
low flow yield longer delays in acheiving the desired mash temp.  Worst
case was about 1/2 degF/min.

IMHO, the biggest hurdle in going the RIMS route, is the time and cost of
making one.  OTOH, if you're a tinkerer and like fooling around in the shop
and "gadteering", the time consideration is actually a plus.

>No-one seems to talk much about it here.

Maybe 'cause they've been discussed so much in the past?  Much
info/opinions are available via an archive search via hbd.org or 
hubris.engin.umich.edu:8080/cgi-bin/dothread
YMMV, but, my RIMS was cobbled together with no knowledge other than what
I've read in the HBD and on the web and a lot of advice and help from
others who preceeded me-  THANKS guys!!!
c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net 
http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/  

 >>

Good points re: RIMS construction C.D. Pritchard.

For those who dare, the above information is the key to a successful RIMS (in 
my second year of RIMS experience). You need full flow circulation.  That 
means minimum piping and hoses, fewest 90 degree fittings, no radical 
plumbing for the low psi. magnetically coupled pumps, vessels on same level, 
a system matched pump and a well designed manifold or false bottom. My choice 
was a Heat Exchange MANifold RIMS system (HE-Man RIMS).  Choice of direct 
fired heating, an electric water heater element chamber or a heat exchange 
manifold coil will depend on the scope of your resources and can all work 
well.

My last two RIMS batches were the first back to back brews without design 
changes or additions to the system since I started brewing with my RIMS. I 
have stored my propane torch and solder back on the shelf where they belong 
instead of next to the RIMS work area. 

C.D. Pritchard, how can you tell when you are almost finished with your RIMS 
project?
On your last trip to the hardware/supply store you spent less than $5.00 on 
RIMS parts...

I too would like to thank all who have shared info and encouragement in this 
forum on building one of the best homebrewing toys someone could have.

The journey is the reward. (With a nice homebrew or two along the way)

Wayne 
Big Fun Brewing
Milwaukee


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 00:38:43 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: strawberry and/or rhubarb

Jesters,

Has anyone ever brewed a strawberry rhubarb beer?  I've been kicking
this idea around.  I searched the archives and there's not much about
rhubarb.  One or two reported they tried it a couple of years ago but
not much in the way of follow-up.  The recipes at Cats Meow doesn't
have anything for rhubarb.  Maybe this is a combo that just won't work
in beer, who knows?

Lots of people report good results using strawberries.  I'm wondering
about how much rhubarb to add.  Maybe the rhubarb would be too sour.
Another option I thought about was strawberry watermelon.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Dirty Laundry Brewery
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200




Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 09:27:10 -0400
From: "Thomas O'Connor" <toconnor at nehealth.org>
Subject: lactose dose for sweet stout


Happy 4th, All,
Forgive the elementary question...but as I said to my high school 
girlfriend..."This is my first time..."
What would you gifted sweet stout-makers out there recommend as the proper 
amount of lactose (I have powder) to use in a recipe for a Mackeson's-like 
stout (5 gals.)?  In the boil?  In the keg prior to force-carbonation and 
bottling?  I tried to "RTFM", but the "FM" is sparse.  The old BT article 
says little, and Prof. Lewis' book "Stout" has only one recipe that calls 
for a KILO! at bottling.  It may be right... 
Many thanks (Go raibh maith agat),
Thomas J. O'Connor, III, M.D.
Rockport, ME


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 12:24:59 -0400
From: "Michael Maag" <maagm at rica.net>
Subject: Mashing 6 row wheat malt

I am brewing a Weizenbock using 7 lbs of Breiss 2 row ale malt (because I
need to use it up), and 7 lbs of Breiss 6 row wheat malt.  This will be my
first mash with something other than 2 row ale malt.  Will a simple infusion
mash at 150F work?  Would the beer benefit from a step mash?  (My mash tun
is direct fired)  Haze would not be a problem in a Weizen.
My  water has a total hardness of 164 and 150 ppm calcium.  When  I mash ale
malt I boil and cool the water it to precipitate bicarbonate, decant,   mash
in at 150F then add calcium carbonate for a pH of 5.4
 So, is a step mash needed, or will 150F do the job?
Cheers,
Mike 8*)  In the Shenandoah Valley



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 23:35:35 -0400
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Water Salts

For the water experts:

Great efforts are often made to duplicate the water from various
regions of the world in order to duplicate the famous beers made in these
regions. Typically the ion concentration of the water in the region of
interest is cited as the appropriate water to use in brewing the beer in
question.   However, reproducing the brewing water is not simple since many
of the salts are rather insoluble in water and therefore must be added to
the wort during the boil.  The problem is that the ion concentrations in the
wort after the boil are higher than the ion concentrations in the starting
watter.  Thus the ion concentrations in the finished beer are NOT the
concentrations of the local water.

It seems apparent that if one is trying to duplicate the ion concentrations
of a beer from a particular region, one must know more than just the ion
concentrations of the water in the region of interest.  Rather one needs to
know the ion concentrations of the finished beer OR the degree to which the
wort volume was reduced during the boil for the particular beer being
duplicated and add the appropriate amount of salts to the kettle based upon
the post-boil volume of the wort.  Ion concentrations in finished beers are
rarely (never?) published and the degree the wort was reduced during the
boil of commercial beers is probably next to impossible to obtain.  What's a
homebrewer to do about this?  How about some references to ion
concentrations of FINISHED beers?
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 07:09:31 +0200 
From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
Subject: Real Trappist

Beerlovers,

The new Trappist Brewery in the St. Benedictus Abbey (De Achelse Kluis) is
located in Hamont-Achel in Noord-Brabant, Belgium just at the border with
The Netherlands. In the direct neighbourhood the breweries: Budelse,
Dommelsch, Martens, De Dool.

So there are 7 Trappist breweries now.
1.	Scourmont Abbey with Chimay beers
2.	St.-Sixtus Abbey in West-Vleteren
3.	Notre Dame de St.-Remy in Rochefort
4.	Westmalle Abbey
5.	Orval
6.	De Achelse Kluis (with Westmalle yeast) since Feb 6, '99 (capacity
10 Hl brews). 2 beers now: 4 degr. and 6 degr. Open daily 11-17:30 except
Monday. At the moment only beer from tap.
7.	In The Netherlands De Schaapskooi with La Trappe beers (part of
Bavaria concern)

Greetings from Holland, Hans Aikema
http://www.cybercomm.nl/~aikema/index.html



Return to table of contents

---