---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Berliner weiss--stories from the front ("Christine and Marc Sedam")
  measuring fermentation. ("Stephen Alexander")
  storing grain/oil + CO2 = ? ("Stephen Alexander")
  Answers For Anthony Divjak ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  8 Hour Brew Session Yields 1.125 OG BW (Charley Burns)
  Me Too! (Eric.Fouch)
  Who Cares; we should. ("Houseman, David L")
  3/8" vs 1/2" valves ("Stephen Alexander")
  Detroit/A2 AHA 2000 (Brew2K?), Canada & Lallemand (Ken Schramm)
  Re: What are Micrococci? ("Stephen Alexander")
  Only 8 hours?!? (Pat Babcock)
  benzene drums (David Whitman)
  Brewchicks (Eric.Fouch)
  Help me, Dr. Pivo! - More Lallemand success... ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
  Labeling Bottles (Charles)" <Charles.Lunney at Intervet.akzonobel.nl>
  Re: rookie asks (Patrick McVey)
  re: scared brewer (Patrick McVey)
  AHA conference -- survey ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  soy ("glyn crossno")
  Berliner weiss, the morning after (Marc Sedam)
  mass reply:  freeware Tcl/Tk brewer's recipe program (Jim Graham)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 01:40:10 -0400
From: "Christine and Marc Sedam" <sedam at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Berliner weiss--stories from the front

The weather in NC was hot--too hot to be brewing.  I however would not be
denied as I had just read a post in the HBD about making a Berliner-style
weissbier and how said beer needn't be boiled.  Perfect, say I.  As we all
know, the best laid plans...  Here are some of my tales and observations
from brewing this beer.

1)  For god sakes, dough in at 95F and hold for 15-20 minutes.  I forgot
this step and am currently paying the price.

2)  Take heed of the protein rests.  Eric Warner's "German Wheat Beer"
suggests protein rests at 117F, 122F, and 126F.  I chose a 15 minute rest at
117 and a 15 minute rest at 122F.  Based on the excruciatingly long sparge,
perhaps I needed more time here.

3)  The only part of the day that worked was the 5 hour hold  at  145F for
saccharification and lactobaccili growth.  Because it was 101F here today, I
merely hit the temperature and put the mash-tun (aka boiling pot) outside.
I lost ~2F per hour.

4)  I pulled a small decoction for the bump from 145F to 155F for some
alpha-amylase activity.  Clearly I didn't pull enough as direct fire was
still necessary.  Even with a Berliner-style weiss, I'd do a single
decoction (probably from the protein rest to beta-rest).

5)  Posts on the HBD and elsewhere state that 2oz of hops are used in the
mash.  I'll make the suggestion that you should NOT use pellets for this
step.  Again, Warner's book states that the purpose of the hops (other than
the obvious) is to help loosen the mash.  Rest assured, pellets do not help
loosen the mash.  I would suggest that they do just the opposite.

6)  The combination of the above (50% wheat grist, pellet hops, mash out at
160F) resulted in a 2.5 hour sparge for a five gallon batch.  I used my old
trusty Easymasher(tm) installed in a plastic bucket.  Made years of great
beer using this cheapie set up.  Today just wasn't my day.

7)  Because of #6, I found that cutting the mash to avoid channeling is
critical to getting the sugars out of the mash.  I wondered why the sparge
was so clear until I saw a big channel down the side of my bucket.  After
cutting the mash, the runoff reached a more appropriate color.


Grain bill:
4lbs DWC pils malt
4lbs DWC wheat malt
2oz Hallertauer [3.2% alpha] in the mash
cultured yeast from a fresh litre of Weeping Radish Weizen (Manteo, NC)

Since it's early in the am now, I don't know how sour the beer has become.
I'll likely ferment it out and add lactic acid until pH=3.2 to get the
proper acidity if the sour mash doesn't do the trick.  I did get a decent
extraction rate, though.  Wound up with 6 gallons of 1.032 wort.

I figured that since the rest of the posts here lacked depth, I'd try to
save people some of the pain of my experiences.

Cheers!
Marc Sedam
"Huisbrouwerij Zuytdam"



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 06:08:14 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: measuring fermentation.

Joe Gibbens writes ...

>The batch I have fermenting now seems to ferment in short bursts.
>Imediately after shaking, CO2 bubbles out of the blow off tube almost
>explosively [...]
>.  Any ideas?

It is extremely unlikely that Joe's beer really ferments in bursts.  The
problem that he has (we all have)  is in measuring fermentation rate.
Accurately determining rate and extent of fermentation is a common problem
in brewing. Shaking releases supersaturated CO2 from solution, much as
shaking a can of Pepsi does - but it tells us little about the rate at which
yeast are producing CO2 (fermenting).

Observing CO2 production, as it passes through a fermentation lock is the
most usual HB method of assessing fermentation progress.  This method only
determines 'evolved' or released CO2.  CO2 in solution in the wort//beer is
not determined.  For 'typical' wort, about 17 volumes of CO2 is produced by
the yeast but during fermentation the wort itself is supersaturated with 1
to 2 volumes of CO2. Absolute temperature, temperature variations, system
leaks, the availability of nucleation cites in the wort and the rate of CO2
production  and probably other factors impact this means of assessing
fermentation.

In the paper 'Monitoring the Production of Carbon Dioxide During Beer
Fermentation' [MBAA TQv32, #3, pp126-131, 1995] measures both the evolved
CO2 and the CO2 that remains in solution for several sizes of fermentation
(from 11L to almost 1000L) and for several yeast and fermentation types.
For both ale and lager fermentation virtually no evolved CO2 appeared for 4
to 10 hours after pitching, while the levels of CO2 in solution increased
almost linearly during this time period from  the very low initial level to
approximately 1 volume of CO2.  Only after the CO2 in solution exceeded the
saturation level (1vol/vol) did CO2 start evolving.  The CO2 in solution
rose to supersaturation levels (up to 2vol/vol) during the peak of
fermentation, and then declined toward the equilibrium value as fermentation
slows and ceases.  The equilibrium value was generally 1.0 to 1.2 vol/vol of
CO2 where the increase (1.2vol) was due to low final fermentation
temperature (10C) and the additional pressure (at depth) in large (1000L)
fermentors.

Overall there was extremely good agreement between the total CO2 produced
(evolved plus dissolved) the level of alcohol, and the drop in specific
gravity - as we should expect.

It is fair to say that evolved CO2 (bubbling rate) is a "lagging" indicator
of fermentation.  Until the yeast *anaerobically* ferment about 2SG degrees
(0.5P) of *apparent* attenuation (about 1vol of CO2 produced) there is no
evolved CO2.  This issue may be the source of much of the confusion about
lag periods.  Also after peak fermentation the supersaturated wort evolved
(released) more CO2 than would be expected on the basis of fermentation
alone since the level of dissolved CO2 declined toward 1vol releasing the
excess.

- --
>From the information that I previously posted on flocculation, it is fairly
clear that flocculation is the effective end of any significant rate of
fermentation and that yeast flocculate as a consequence of their
environmental conditions and genetics. It is not likely therefore that
simply mechanically rousing yeast (particularly lager yeast which go through
a dramatic surface property changes during flocculation) can significantly
impact fermentation.  .Without attacking the root cause of the flocculation
the fermentation cannot reasonably be continued.

- --
All methods of fermentation evaluation *seem* to involve direct or indirect
measurement of the conversion of sugars to CO2 and ethanol.  The paper above
measured CO2 directly using flowmeters and a dissolved CO2 instrument.
Ethanol assays can be performed by gas chromatograph and less directly by
distillation measurement.  Fermentable sugars can be accurately assayed by
high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC).  Hydrometers (very)
indirectly measure the fermentable sugars (and alcohol) along with all other
extract matter in suspension and solution.  Clinitest and other reducing
sugar tests effectively measure the concentration of reducing sugar
molecules (plus aldehydes) w/o respect to their size or fermentability while
missing non-reducing sugars (like sucrose) entirely.  Refractometers measure
the index of refraction of the materials in solution, but the resolution (at
a reasonable price) is limited and the refractive index is impacted by
alcohol, protein unfermentable sugars and even starch in solution.
Polarimetry is another possible tool for fermentation measure - with some
similar limitations.
- --
Guess all I'm really trying to say is that measuring fermentation progress
is not a trivial thing.  Staring at your fermentation lock *after* rousing
tells you little.  Watching it before rousing tells you a bit more - but
still not so very much.

I'd be very interested in accurately measuring fermentation progress in
fermentor, as a process control variable.  Would be very interesting, and
perhaps useful.

Thoughts ?

 -S




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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 07:08:58 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: storing grain/oil + CO2 = ?

Greg Moore -
asks ...

>1) Will the CO2 environment slow any deterioration of the grains and extend
>   the shelf life?  Might it introduce problems?
>
>2) Is there any advantage or disadvantage of storing the grains under
>   pressure (co2)?
>
>3) what's the standard shelf life of most malted grains?
>
>4) Are there any side affects of doing this that I might have missed?

The primary flavor deterioration of grains (not necessarily malt, tho'
probably so) is the oxidation of the oils present (Understanding Natural
Flavors', Piggott & Paterson, Chapman&Hall, 1994).  So one would think that
removing the oxygen *might* have a positive effect.  But see my question
below.

As far as CO2 pressure goes - a little overpressure will help ensure that
the  seals stay sealed.  Pale malted grain can certainly last over a year in
uncrushed form, and the useful practical life is probably more determined by
the storage conditions (such as moisture and humidity) than on the malt.
Dark malts and crystal lose flavor too fast to consider long term storage.

OK - here's a weird one for you all.  A few years back I had a metal 3L can
of olive oil partially filled and I decided, on a lark, to top the can off
with CO2 in order to hopefully prevent oxidation.  I revisited the can a few
weeks later only to find that the can was dramatically crushed and mangled.
Clearly the CO2 had been absorbed or compounded with the oil and the can
crushed from the resulting partial vacuum!!  I've never found an adequate
explanation of what happened here - but it may well effect the answer to
question 1) above.

 -S





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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 22:47:17 +1000
From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au>
Subject: Answers For Anthony Divjak

Anthony,
          Welcome to the HBD. You have certainly arrived in the right place
for answers to your questions but just at the moment things are in a bit of
disarray. Some of our experts are a little preoccupied with matters, some
are out of town and at least one has departed the scene altogether! Things
take a bit to get used to here. Some people have funny names and most like
to tear each other to pieces. But we are really all just good buddies.
Especially as we never have to have a beer together.
         You will find a Mr "S" who I am sure will have plenty of answers
for you. But at this moment Mr "S" is very concerned about who is or isn't
eating his higher level sugars! Mr Burley thinks he knows who the culprit is
but Mr "S" doesn't agree. Mr "S" has spent three digests telling Mr Burley
he is on the wrong track but Mr Burley just won't speak to him. This is
because Mr Burley is out of town which he told everybody but Mr "S" must not
have noticed. Never mind, Mr Burley will be back with us soon (maybe
tonight) and no doubt he will have lots to say to the naughty Mr "S"!
         We did in fact have a Doctor with us but someone found out he
wasn't really a Doctor and so of course he had to leave. Some people have a
first name and only one letter for a surname, you will have to get used to
this. One idiot thought swinging cats and brewing beer at the same time was
a good idea but he was quickly dealt with. This is no forum for amateur
humourists!
        So please bear with us, when everyone has gotten over their
immediate gripe (this includes sexist photos) I am sure you will be swamped
by responses

Cheers
Phil Yates



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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 05:53:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: cburns at jps.net (Charley Burns)
Subject: 8 Hour Brew Session Yields 1.125 OG BW

One of my longest brew days yet. And certainly the longest based on a single
infusion mash.

I decided to try an all malt 5 gallon barleywine with my little 54 qt mash
tun. I only wanted first runnings but of course that's not possible with
such a small mash tun (could have used Sapsis' tub on Sunday). 

  1.00	lb.	Crystal  20L             
  2.50	lb.	Cara-Vienne (22L)
  2.50	lb.	Munich Light             
 18.00	lb.	GW 2-Row 
  1.00	lb.	Malted Wheat                    

I mashed in with .9 qts per pound of grain, just trying to keep the total
volume inside the mashtun. I made it with about 1.5" of freeboard so I know
that I can use even more water next time. The mash was so thick that it took
a good 10 minutes to completely dough in. Even at that there were widely
varying temperatures in the tun, all the way from 135F to 156F. Amazing. I
let it sit for 10 minutes and stirred it up. Still had variations but they
were from 145F to 152F. My target was 152F, so I figured this was as close
as I'd get.

After an hour I ran out about a gallon of first runnings to set the grain
bed. I didn't want to recirculate that much sugar so I ran it through a fine
mesh nylon cloth instead and dumped it directly into the kettle. Dropped in
2 gallons of boiling water to stabilize mash at 158F. I wanted 165F but
there wasn't enough room left in the tun. Then sparged for about 1.5 hours,
mash temp never exceeding 172f.. Ended up with 9 gallons of 1.068 wort.
Since my target was anything above 1.110, I knew I had a lot of boiling to do. 

It took about 30 minutes to get up to boiling (and boil over of course).
Then I boiled it for 90 minutes before taking a gravity reading. I had about
7.5 gallons at that point somewhere around 1.085. Popped in the bittering
hops and boiled for another 70 minutes. Dropped in the finishing hops and IM
and boiled for 10 more minutes. After chilling it came out at 1.125, almost
exactly 5 gallons.

The question I have is, will that extended boiling time screw up the
barleywine. I boiled it very hard and it got much darker from when it
started. I'm not sure if that's due to condensing it or carmelization
(probably some from both). I'm just wondering if such an extended boil time
will be a problem. I had a TON of break material in the primary.

Charley



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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:02:00 -0400
From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com
Subject: Me Too!

>Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:53:19 +1000
>From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au>
>Subject: Dr Pivo Returns To Say Goodbye
>
>To All Who Read The HBD,
>         It would seem that Dr Pivo has decided to give this forum a miss
>and say farewell. I personally am sad to see this happen.

Me Too!
Dr. Pivo- tell the truth:  You're impending absence doesn't have anything to
do with some personal e-mails recieved from one Kyle Druey, does it?  He's
been looking to notch his keyboard again!

But seriously- stick around.

Eric Fouch, PDTL
"..but you never know, until you know."
                                                -Dr. Pivo




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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:30:17 -0400 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Who Cares; we should.

Aleman says "...Homebrewing is about practical brewing, and who
cares what the Commercial brewers do, the biggest one doesn't even make
decent beer. What works in our setups, works for us, and thats [sic] the
bottom
line, even if the theory says that it shouldn't...."  

While I may not want to brew clones of the largest breweries (excluding
Guinness of course), these companies do us a service, though perhaps not
highly appreciated.  Products developed for the large breweries find there
way to the micro and homebrew markets (e.g. I believe PBW was first
developed for Coors).  Research such as Labatts Ice Brewing has very
practical applications, as pointed out by George Fix, in stabilizing
homebrewed beers.  Homebrewers can learn from the major breweries lessons in
quality control and consistency.  We're all part of a continuum from
homebrewer, brewpub, micro, regional and major breweries.  

Dave Houseman



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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:17:43 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 3/8" vs 1/2" valves

St.Pat's asks about 3/8" vs 1/2" valves on kettles,

I've just been through this recently after adding a pump and two new kettles
I now live with a mix of 3/8" and 1/2" fittings.

I think it's a myth that 1/2" is technically preferable.  The pump vendors
suggest using the 1/2" in order to preserve orifice size - but the plastic
mag drive pump heads don't have anything like a 1/2" ID size - in fact the
two I've measured are closer to 3/8" ID. Also  they suggest throttling back
flow with an outlet side valve anyway.  IMO 3/8" (full orifice) is perfectly
adequate for a 15gal kettle size.  55gal or HERMS may be another story.

One advantage of the 1/2" fittings is availability.  The
DIY/Lowe's/Home_Depot/Ace type mega-hardware stores carry fewer and fewer
3/8" MIP/FIP fittings, barbs and other necessities as time goes on.  Also
some places charge a premium for 3/8" fittings and valves making them as
expensive as 1/2".

>In Austin, there is no way you can open a 3/8" valve for any counterflow
>using tap water as coolant.  then again, our tap water runs as high as 75F
>and is over 60F all year.  I'm curious about the water temp and associated
>cooling rates for you michiganders and other yankees.

In Northern Ohio my muni water runs from a seasonal peak very close to your
75F down to very near the freezing point (at most 34F) in mid-winter.   They
attempt to bury the tap pipes from the water mains deep enough to avoid
freezing, but every now and then ...  I could CFC several times the wort
flow rate in January than in August, but saving 5 or 10 minutes off a brew
day for 6 or 8 months of the year isn't worth very much, particularly since
CFC chilling requires virtually no attention once started.

If both sizes of fittings were equally available I'd opt for the 3/8" - the
valves have more useful range particularly in the lauter tun.  As it is, I
think 1/2" has an edge on availability that is becoming harder to ignore.

nice to help St.Pat's instead of the other way around for a change,
 -S




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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:45:51 -0400
From: Ken Schramm <Ken.Schramm at oakland.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Detroit/A2 AHA 2000 (Brew2K?), Canada & Lallemand

Robin, et al;

The issue of the Lallemand Scholarship has an intersting sidebar.  The
Scholarship will be awarded at the 2000 AHA conference in the Detroit/Ann
Arbor area. One of the selling points making Detroit attractive to the AHA
was that Detroit would be closer to Canadian brewers, perhaps close enough
to attend, especially for those who live along the 401 Windsor/Toronto
corridor,as pointed out by a CABA officer.  Attending the conference is
cheaper for AHA members by an amount greater than annual dues, making it
more attractive to be a member than not. Join the AHA, attend a great
event, and be eligible for the scholarship.  Such a deal.  As with KC, the
goal will be to keep costs down, to provide as much valuable information as
possible, and to honor the magnificent social heritage of beer making in
North America and around the world.  Here in Detroit, we love Canadians.
Any country that lends us Stevie Y, Brendan Shanahan, Chris Draper and Lord
Stanley for a couple of years is OK with us.  Plus, we can get Don Cherry
and Hockey Night in Canada. And maple leaf creams and MacIntosh's toffee.
We're lucky.

The reception of the membership to the event put on by Alberta Rager and
the KC brewing community has been very favorable.  The AABG, FORD club and
other Detroit area clubs, however, are not amenable to being outdone by
mere Kansas Citians, no matter how much we respect and like them (that is a
friendly poke, Alberta).  I guarantee that the Ann Arbor smokers will be
pumping out smoked salmon and pheasants, and the brew kettles will be
steaming in anticipation of a serious conclave. The AABG is throwing down
the gaunlet to the CBS, the Maltose Falcons, the Boston Wort Processors,
Hop Barley and the Aler's.  And every other club out there worth their
salt.  Come to MoTown and show us how it's done.  I'll bet the CABA could
teach us a thing or two.  We can host an educational party with the best of
'em, and I hope that the brewing proletariat will give serious thought to
attending.  Or risk missing the best beer celebration of the new millennium.

Dan McConnell and I might even be convinced to do a presentation on mead.

Ken Schramm
Troy, Michigan
Close enough to Jeff Renner to meet him for a beer (preferably his)




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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:45:38 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: What are Micrococci?


Micrococci are gram positive cocci which appear in groups (pairs, tetrads
etc), they are non-motile, non-sporulant, non-encapsulating, bacteria which
can also ferment carbohydrates and some are anaerobic!  One member of the
genus is staphylococcus which can cause wound infections.  Another is
'Sarcina' which does NOT include pediococcus, but instead is a rather large
(3u) aerobic cocci.

They should not be welcome inhabitants of your beer bottles, but they are
also not the worst you have to fear either.

 -S




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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:54:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com>
Subject: Only 8 hours?!?

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

cburns at jps.net (Charley Burns) sez...

> Subject: 8 Hour Brew Session Yields 1.125 OG BW
> 
> One of my longest brew days yet. And certainly the longest based on a single
> infusion mash.

Crimony! My TYPICAL brew day is eight hours! And that's not even for a
barley wine. I guess I can use the term "slow brewed", huh? :-) 

 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brew Page                 http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 10:51:19 -0500
From: David Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Subject: benzene drums

Randy Kinsman is worried about residual benzene in used SS drums:

>I saw the 50U.S. gal drums and was instantly in
>love.  As you have probably guessed, there is a catch.  They originally
>contained benzene.  As soon as I found that out I became very
>concerned.  Their rep.(RCB's) assured me that they were completely
>usable because the stainless would not be etched by the solvent and that
>they had sold many of them for brew kettles.  I spent hours reading
>about the health dangers of benzene and worked myself into quite a
>lather.  Can any of the highly educated brewers out there convince me
>that this drum can indeed be made safe for use in the brewing process?

Benzene IS nasty stuff, and nothing I say here should be construed as a
guarantee of safety.  If you get cancer 10 years from now, don't send your
lawyers...if you try this, you're on your own. 

With that disclaimer, I think you can substantially reduce the amount of
residual benzene in the drum by just boiling some water in it.  (!)  

It turns out there is a binary azeotrope in the benzene-water system, so
that if you fill the drum with water and boil it off, the vapor is
substantially enriched in benzene relative to the composition of what's in
the drum.  You can use this to scrub out benzene in the drum which is
accessable to the water.  Presumably any benzene in there that ISN'T
accessable to the water isn't going to get in your beer, either.  I suggest
fill the drum as high as practical, get a good rolling boil and evaporate
it down to half the original volume.  Discard the remaining water.  Repeat
this fill/boil/discard twice more, and the drum should be substantially
benzene-free.


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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:55:00 -0400
From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com
Subject: Brewchicks

HBD-
>Here are a sampling of the responses I received for my comment on the
>housewife photo in the new Zymurgy. I think they are very
>dissapointing. How can we expect to get women interested in homebrewing
>if they are met with sexist photos in the leading magazine and sexist
>comments on-line?

Fred's comment somehow got a no-show.  He still wants that picture.  For
his.....archives.
What constitutes a sexist photo?  Actually if you look at things historically,
all us brew guys should be commended for brewing in the face of tradition.
Outside of the occasional sexist jab by our beloved Dr. Burley calling us
"brewsters" indescriminatley, basically referring to the historically correct
gender of brewers, that being female, we guys are allowed a little latitude in
our attitude, since we are comfortable enough with our gender and sexuality to
undertake the hobby of homebrewing.  I mean, If I were the size of Rosie
Grier, I could comfortably take up crosstitch without fear of manly ridicule,
casue I could pound anyone who made fun of me.  Being of small stature but
stout heart, I choose to chance the ridicule of those familiar with the
tradition of brewing when they call me a brewster, insulting my manhood.  Do I
cry "FOUL!" and put on a skirt?  NO!  I refuse to let a "Politically Correct"
society suggest that I can be a brewer, but I can't look at a picture of a
woman in a stereotypically domestic setting, and am I less of a sensitive
human being because I am not offended?
I Think Not!


Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
Kentwood, MI
"..but you never know, until you know."
                                                -Dr. Pivo

P.S. Chicks who brew are cool!



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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 10:43:09 -0500
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton at iastate.edu>
Subject: Help me, Dr. Pivo! - More Lallemand success...

Dr. Pivo, I would like you to email me personally at this address to answer
a few quick questions about making "true-to-style" czech pilseners.

I am just now after nearly six years of brewing getting the proper lagering
equipment, and want to get some more opinions on how to do pilseners on the
homebrew scale.

Here's the address, and don't be shy.

jkenton at iastate.edu

Thanks in advance.

- --------------------------
An all extract barleywine pitched with two packets of london danstar yeast
at 2:30 sounded off at 8pm (shooting airlock seven feet to the ceiling of
my basement, covering a short piece of ductwork with "spooge." Very
explosive ferment, and a further testimonial to using the Lallemand
products according to the instructions on the packet.

Jeff Kenton


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Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:39:45 -0400 
From: "Lunney, C (Charles)" <Charles.Lunney at Intervet.akzonobel.nl>
Subject: Labeling Bottles

Something that's come up between me and some other homebrewers around here 
(central Iowa) is the subject of labeling bottles.  Some of the people I
know use the
paper and milk method, others use sticky labels, and some just write
directly on 
the cap.

A friend of mine had been using 1" round Avery labels that he bought at an
office 
supply store.  He would write the name of the beer on each label, then stick
it on 
the cap after bottling.  This seemed to be a pretty good way to do it.  You
don't have 
to worry about cleaning the label off the bottle, because it gets thrown
away when 
you open the bottle!

I came up with an improvement on this method.  I use my PC and HP inkjet
printer to 
print them out.  The labels come on a small (1/4 sheet) page, 15 labels per
sheet.  
I've got an MS Excel spreadsheet formated to print to this.  This allows me
to 
(neatly!) get the beer's name, date of bottling and my own homebrewery name
on 
each label.  I just slip the sheet into the printer's built in envelope
slot, and print it!
Repeat as often as needed to label the batch (3-4 sheets for a 5 gal batch).

It's been a big hit with the other brewers I know.  

If anyone wants a copy of the Excel spreadsheet, I'd be happy to e-mail it
to them.  
Just a little something I thought might help out!

Chuck Lunney
Looney Bin Nanobrewery 
lunneys at earthlink.net



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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:14:12 -0400
From: Patrick McVey <mcveyp at kingman.com>
Subject: Re: rookie asks

1) Your aftertaste is the 21 days sitting on sedimentation. Get a siphon
hose and move your primary to a secondary fermentation vessel. Cleanliness
is the key to consistent results.
2) I get more consistent results when I bottle by boil & cool the priming
sugar in a pint of water and add it to the bottling bucket first. The sugar
in each bottle can get too much in one bottle and not enough in another.
Some bottles won't carbonate properly, others will overflow in dramatic
fashion (gushers).
3) Use quality ingredients which you can obtain from mailorder brew
suppliers of which there are many. Hmmm, can a U.S. brew supplier mail to
Canada?
4) Make it your mission to clone a recipe for your favorite beer. Keep
notes, be scientific. Control the process.
Good luck - stick with it!
Patrick in Arizona



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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:26:43 -0400
From: Patrick McVey <mcveyp at kingman.com>
Subject: re: scared brewer

Randy,
Look at any steel drum construction, the only place the benzene could hide
would be in the rolled edge at the seam. Once that's cleaned, the benzene is
out. You might do a sacrificial water boil in there after a thorough
cleaning. Benzene is aromatic and it will boil out if it hasn't soaked into
foreign material not cleaned from the drum. I had a similar dillema as to
how to clean all the cutting torch slag from my SS beer keg brewery. I had
great results with a cleaner called "Barkeeper's Friend." Its like
Ajax-BonAmi cleaner without the chlorine chemicals. Its a good abrasive
cleaner. I also use Trisodium phosphate (TSP) on cornelius syrup kegs.
However, I would be very careful with any cleaner until I knew the benzene
concentration had been sufficiently diluted out, then I would go for a
thorough, high ration scrubbing. Many years ago I made a Texas BBQ (cut
lengthwise 55gal petroleum drum). I used a whole bottle of Dawn dishwashing
liquid on that drum to get it clean.



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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 14:51:39 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at umich.edu>
Subject: AHA conference -- survey

For those who attended the KC conference: was it a significant negative
that the hotel was not near anything else?  Or did you never leave the
hotel nor want to leave the hotel, anyway?

If you did not attend the conference this year, but might attend next
year in Michigan, I'm also interested in your response.

Please respond to me, not the HBD.  This info will help us in planning
the year 2000 conference.  Please put the word "survey" in the subject
line, to aid me in sorting out the responses from the rest of my e-mail.

Thank you.

=Spencer Thomas (spencer at umich.edu), Ann Arbor MI (-6,0,0 Rennerian)


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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 14:40:21 -0500
From: "glyn crossno" <crossno at tnns.net>
Subject: soy 

Having acquired 3 lb. of flaked soy, I am wondering if anybody has any
experience brewing with soy?  Thoughts?

Glyn Crossno
Estill Springs,  TN



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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 16:22:34 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: Berliner weiss, the morning after

So I woke up this morning to check on the weiss.  When I put it
to bed last night I didn't bother chilling it down (I know, DMS
a-plenty) thinking that the extra time through the "lactobacillus
temps" would be better for the not-to-sour wort.  I put the 135F
wort in the chest freezer set at 60F and, at the same time, put 2
gallons of water in the freezer.

The next morning...OK, it was five hours later...I mixed the 2
gallons of 32F water in with the 4 gallons of 1.052 wort.
Bingo!  6 gallons at 1.033--my target gravity and batch size.
The cold water also brought the temp of the wort down to 66F.  A
healthy starter was pitched and the batch was aerated with the
dregs of a bottle of pure O2.  For good measure I rocked the
bucket vigorously for 10 minutes as well.

The wort was pleasingly tart, but with room to spare for
continued souring.  It was moderately clear, but looked as if
that might disappear with aging.  I'm fermenting at 62F to
maximize yeast performance while minimizing continued
lactobacilli activity, an idea (again) gleaned from Warner's
"German Wheat Beer" book.  Once reaching terminal gravity I'll
crash cool the ferment to stop both yeast and "lacto" activity.
It seems important to store this beer cold or it will continue to
sour.  I have lots of gadgets in my closet, but a flash
pasteurizer isn't one of them.

In the end I think this will be a worthy summer brew.  If the
southern US continues to reach triple digit temperatures I may
only be able to wait a week.  :-)  BTW, Warner claims that this
beer will store indefinitely (at cooler temps, I presume) and
improves measurably with age as the acidity and wheat yeast
flavors mellow and meld together.  I'm sure the keg won't last
that long, but we shall see.

Cheers!
Marc Sedam
"Huisbrouwerij Zuytdam"

P.S.  For those who want a summary of the "best" Berliner-style
weiss practices I discovered during this endeavor, e-mail me
privately and I'll respond.



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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:29:33 -0500
From: Jim Graham <jim at n5ial.gnt.com>
Subject: mass reply:  freeware Tcl/Tk brewer's recipe program

Thanks for all of the replies....  Based on the shape of my incoming
e-mail since Saturday, it seems there is definitely a lot of interest
in this beastie.  If the HBD moderators don't mind, I'll send a quick
announcement here when I have something more substantial.  If nothing
else, check back at my web page (http://www.gnt.net/~n5ial) every now
and then.  It will probably start out with only a small subset of the
desired features, and grow from there (exactly the way JStrack worked
out).

For all of those who have offered to test on various platforms, thanks
for that, too!  I'll keep your e-mail addresses handy and let you know
by e-mail when there's something to test.....

Later,
   --jim

- -- 
73 DE N5IAL (/4)        | DMR: So fsck was originally called something else.
jim at n5ial.gnt.net       | Q:   What was it called?
ICBM / Hurricane:       | DMR: Well, the second letter was different.
   30.39735N 86.60439W  |       -- Dennis M. Ritchie, Usenix, June 18, 1998.



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