---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Evap Cooling? / Wort chill times (Tom Meier)
  Bring Brian Back (Mark Tumarkin)
  Air filtration question (Harlan Bauer)
  more on sour mash pH effects (Teutonic Brewer)
  Glycol Fermentation Temperature Control ("Bruce M. Mills")
  insecticides and hops (Ray Kruse)
  Another AHA post (Rob Hanson and Kate Keplinger)
  Mash Thickness (CLOAKSTONE)
  Who/what/when/where/why ("David Kerr")
  Belgian beers? (larson.jt)
  core of AHA troubles ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  International HomeBrewing Alliance or... International HomeBrewing Association (ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO)
  Tobacco Mosaic & Canning (uhlb)
  the HBD / drip pans / another stupid AHA trick ("Curt Abert")
  demise of the AHA (Marc Sedam)
  Minikeg Carbonation (Dan Listermann)
  RE: Ring Burners Needed - not complete brewstands (John Wilkinson)
  An Alternative to the AHA? (joseph_labeck_jr)
  Help!!! Need article from MBAA Technical Quarterly (Mark Wedge)
  re: drip pans (Jack Baty)
  AHA poll, Minkegs (RCAYOT)
  Maillard reactions/pCooking/boiling ... ("Stephen Alexander")
  beetles ("Stephen Alexander")
  Brian Brew Ha Ha ("Houseman, David L")
  CAP- corn (Paul Kerchefske)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:36:31 -0500
From: Tom Meier <tco at mindspring.com>
Subject: Evap Cooling? / Wort chill times



I just started extract brewing, my first batch was brimming
with fusel oils (higher alcohols?) I assume due to the high
fermentation temp.  My crappy Beer Kit (recent gift) said 
ferment at WARM room temp 70-85 F.  I kept it around 82 degrees
thinking warmer is better. It turned out OK, expect for the
BLINDING headaches after just one glass.

So, the 2nd time I fermented in a small room that stays around
65 deg. F with A/C on 74. 

My question is this - does anyone have any experience in using
EVAPORATIVE COOLING to keep the fermenter at a temperature lower 
than the room temperature?  I don't think I want to bother with
any ice blocks or foam boxes for ale, and running the A/C low
gets pricey here in Alabama when its 95 (and its NOT a dry heat).

I have wrapped the carboy in a clean wet towel and fanned with a
small desk fan.  Seems to get the fermenter about 5 degrees 
cooler than normal.  A temp. probe wrapped in the towel showed 55 deg!
Anyone have luck with this?

I'd appreciate any serious responses.

==========================

also, thought I would share some info
on wort chillers, I just built one to keep from prechilling so much
damn water to get a final mixed temp of < 80 degrees.

Here's my look into how a 50 ft immersion chiller (agitated) 
would work for different tap water temperatures.  Almost all
heat transfer equations are 30% accurate at best, and note
that agitation of the wort (outside of coil) is the biggest
resistance to heat transfer, so pull out that big spoon and
make a whirlpool, it'll cool 3-4 times faster.

Required cooling times for 5 gal. boil (Minutes)

| Final Wort Temps    Tap Water Temps->
V     
	60	62	64	66	68	70	72	74	76	78
105	7	7	7	8	8	8	8	9	9	9
95	9	9	9	9	10	10	11	11	12	12
85	11	11	11	12	13	13	14	15	16	18
80	12	13	13	14	15	16	17	19	21	25

  50 ft, 3/8 Dia, Type 'M' Copper Tubing, 3.5 GPM
  Overall Heat Tranfer Coeff. of 100 BTU/ft2*hr*F (Agitated)
  Based on Non-isothermal cooling formula, from Perry's

I read all those comments from people who are using a submersible pump,
or mag coupled pump for their immersion chillers (really $$ for us
newbies who have yet to justify their expenses)  Well, I found a small
drill pump that works great in drawing water from an icebath to cool
wort below the tap water temperature - a Wayne drill pump from wally
world. At $4.60 its a steal compared to the ice.  Puts out about
1 gallon/min at any head, self primes, if you care.  

Other crap I've found useful, but not widely available
Temp.	SG Correction
60	0
70	0.001
77	0.002
84	0.003
95	0.005
105	0.007
110	0.008
113	0.009
118	0.01
Actual = Reading + Correction

Or for the REALLY precise..
SGC(T)= 62.37-[ -8E-05*T^2 + 0.0037*T + 62.437]/62.37
T[deg F], good for 60<T<120

One other thing that was not immediately obvious to me was 
to mix 3 temperatures of water and get the right temp and volume,
add up the tempXvolume of each one, and divide by total volume
to get the final mixed temp.  Ended up too hot because I didnt
think that one through beforehand and only prechilled a gallon
or so.


=========================================

Check out this recent post...

>if you continue to insult me
>I will definitely demonstrate how (for the first time) to tear a newbie from
>limb to limb.
>
>Happy Brewing
>Phil Yates.

I like the part where he mentions permanent disfigurement and then wishes us
all happy brewing! What a swell guy, I think he really cares.    

Or how about this thread, now 4 weeks at the top of the charts...

>My /English/ dictionary on
>the other hand defines doctor as a "qualified medical practitioner" or a
>"holder of a doctorate."

I am so glad to be able to have the insightful and useful information
posted here on this forum.  Please keep up the great posts guys!  I am
learning more everyday.  Also, I especially enjoy the ones where people
fight back and forth about science vs craftmanship and call each other
names and stuff.

 -T









Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:44:45 -0400
From: Mark Tumarkin <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Bring Brian Back


A few days ago I got the following message from Brian Rezac, and the
same message then appeared in the HBD--

>Fellow Brewers and Beer Enthusiasts,

>I've been fired...given the boot, axed, bounced, canned, discharged,
>disemployed, dropped, let go, sacked, terminated.  It's the policy of
>the Association of Brewers not to announce such happenings, but I just
>wanted to let you know and to tell you all how much I've enjoyed my
>time at the American Homebrewers Association.  Especially being able
>to work for, and with, such a wonderful group of people...homebrewers.

>Thanks for the ride!

>PS - I'm in the Longmont, Colorado phonebook and I've set up an email
>account at brianrezac at hotmail.com, although I don't know when I'll
>have access to it.  Keep in touch.

>Slainte!
>Brian Rezac

This really is unbelievable. I have only been brewing for about three
years, and have been a member of the AHA from the start. At first mainly
because I wanted to subscribe to Zymurgy. The friend that got me started
brewing had a large collection of back issues that seemed really
interesting. I took the info from one and subscribed/joined (it seemed
pretty much the same thing). I will say that the current incarnation of
Zymurgy is much diminished from the past.

Since then I have become aware that a sizable number of homebrewers have
become 'disenchanted' with the AHA for a variety of reasons such as
Charlie's salary (though personally I say more power to him), tax
issues, and mostly a percieved lack of interest or response from the
powers that be at the AHA/AOB. There have been conflicts with the BJCP,
etc. As I said, I am relatively new to homebrewing so I really don't
know all the background or history, but I certainly am aware of the
widespread sentiment.

In addition, in just the last several years there has been a tremendous
turnover in personnel at the AHA. For a while it seemed like the
functional part of the AHA was just Brian Rezac. Then Paul came aboard,
and between the two of them it seemed that a change had occured.

I met Brian Rezac in 1998, as a direct result of a post to the HBD
asking about who was going to the GABF that year, and suggesting that we
get together to meet each other. Brian wrote me and said it was a great
idea, and he was working on expanding it. Well, he talked to Chris Black
of the Falling Rock and we ended up with the downstairs cigar room at
the Falling Rock as a meeting place. In addition, Brian got beer
donations from Tabernash and a couple of other breweries for us. We had
a great time. Brian and I became good friends. Through him, I also spent
time as a homebrew club volunteer at the AHA table that year, and last
year as well. These are typical of the way Brian reached out and
interacted with the homebrew community.

And I know I'm not alone, there are many homebrewers that I know that
have become good friends with Brian in similar ways. Phil Wilcox, Jim
Brangan, Rob Moline, Mike Bardalis come to mind as well as many others.
Basically, Brian is the kind of person we homebrewers need at the AHA. I
find it impossible to understand why Charlie and the other powers that
be have done this.

It certainly can't be poor performance or lack of work. Any one who was
at this year's National Convention knows how hard Brian worked. It was
obvious throughout the conference. It was also obvious if you ever
called the AHA - at any time- it was always Brian who answered the phone
and helped in any way he could. This year the Natl Convention was in
large part turned over to the member clubs to put on, in large part
because of lack of resources and time on the part of the AHA staff.
Without Brian this will get worse. Not the Convention, the KC clubs did
a great job - I'm talking about the lack of staff and resources at the
AHA. What will suffer next?

At the convention, Charlie talked about the fall off in interest in
homebrewing and the need to bring in new people to rebuild interest in
the hobby. Brian had been doing that all along. His Big Brew program was
a great idea and generated a lot of positive interest in the hobby
accross the country. There are many more examples of the way Brian
worked to help both homebrewers and the AHA. There has been a lot said
about the fact that the AHA is 'member driven.' Is this true, or is it
just lip service? Brian certainly worked for the membership, was that
the problem?

Already there have been a number of posts on the HBD with overwhelming
support for Brian. A number of people such as Scott Abene and Eric Fouch
have already mentioned the possibility of forming another, more
brewer-oriented and responsive organization. This might be a possibility
 - certainly there are many parts of the homebrewing community  that
might want to participate in such a venture. The MCAB, the HBD, the
BJCP, various brewing magazines other than Zymurgy, and many others. I'm
not saying all of these would be interested, or even that this would be
a good idea - but it is possible. With Brian to head or organize it, it
would be off to a good start.

But that's not my  idea at the moment. I'd like to ask all of you who
know Brian, or of him and his work, to think about it for a moment. If,
like I do, you feel that Brian is the kind of person you want at the
AHA, then write to Charlie, to Bob Pease (AOB VP), to Paul, to all the
members of the AHA board of directors, and let them know how you feel.
Ask them to Bring Back Brian. I know that there are members of the board
of advisors that are HBDrs and I hope feel the same way that we do about
Brian. You are our representatives - please help Bring Brian Back.

Write to:
charlie at aob.org
bob at aob.org
paul at aob.org
ahaboa at aob.org  - the board of advisors

If you are really pissed off about this whole thing, you can ask to have
your membership cancelled and the balance refunded to you. That might
get their attention.

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, Fl





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Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:30:43 -0500
From: Harlan Bauer <blacksab at midwest.net>
Subject: Air filtration question

Hi,

Does anyone have any good ideas for sterile filtering compressed air?
I've built a yeast propagator that incorporates continuous aeration, and
I am not comfortable using unfiltered air.

Please note that I'm talking about a 10-gallon vessel with ~5-gal
innoculum continuously aerated for 12-24 hours.

TIA, 
Harlan Bauer, Head Brewer
Copper Dragon Brewing Co.
Carbondale, IL


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:06:31 -0600
From: Teutonic Brewer <claassen at swcp.com>
Subject: more on sour mash pH effects

Mark Bayer makes a good point.  Although the sour mash will lower the
overall mash pH, the reduction in enzyme life time and activity is fairly
gradual at more acidic pH (compared to a high pH above 6.0 where the
enzymes die off very quickly), so in general you have nothing to worry
about.  The optimal pH is traditionally 5.2 to 5.3, and I'm sure my pale
Hefe-Weizen mash is below that, but I still get my usual 80-85% extraction
rate.

My normal sour mash amounts are 5-8% of the malt bill for a dark lager,
8-10% for a pale lager, and up to 15% for a pale Hefe-Weizen.  The dark
malts help lower the mash pH, so darker beers require less sour mash (see
Ray Daniels' Designing Great Beers on the bottom of page 66 for a good
discussion on the effects of dark malts on mash pH).  In addition to the
sour mash, I practice an intensive water treatment regimen here in
Albuquerque due to the carbonate water (125 mg/l of alkalinity as CaCO3).
I add calcium salts (typically 50ppm calcium) and then either preboil or
use slaked lime (see HBD archives for slaked lime) to knock the carbonate
out.  If you do have carbonate water, the sour mash can be used to
neutralize the bicarbonate and achieve a mashable pH.  I did some back of
the envelope calculations that told me I would need an excessive amount of
sour mash, so I knock a major part of the carbonate out beforehand.

Prost!
Paul Claassen (Teutonic Brewer)
Albuquerque, Chile Republic of New Mexico







Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:27:51 -0400
From: "Bruce M. Mills" <thebrumeister at cyberzone.net>
Subject: Glycol Fermentation Temperature Control

Is anyone using a glycol temperature control system for their fermentor ? I
have a 1/2 bbl stainless steel conical fermentor I am thinking of upgrading.
Did you build or purchase it ? What is the product name, if so? Is the
system automated, and/or digitally controlled ?  Are coils located in the
fermentor, or exterior perimeter? What style of beer have you fermented with
the system, and at what temperature ? What was the cost, and is it worth the
cost and effort ? Would you recommend one ?

Any info would be appreciated.

Bruce M. Mills
Hancock, New Hampshire






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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 05:08:48 -0400
From: Ray Kruse <kruse2 at flash.net>
Subject: insecticides and hops

I don't know if Sevin will kill Japanese Beetles, but if you read the
package label, it is recommended for use on a number of food plants,
with a nominal delay from application to harvesting the plant of about a
week.

Malathion and Diazinon are also food approved pesticides, with a delay
between application and harvest.

If you use one of these, and then delay harvesting the cones for a
couple of weeks after the beetle infestation is over, the hops should be
usable.

You could always boil a few cones to see if there is any odor or flavor
of the insecticide in the hop tea.

Ray Kruse
Glen Burnie, PRMd
rkruse at bigfoot.com

"When you rob Peter to pay Paul, you always have the support of Paul."
          George Bernard Shaw



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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:07:15 -0400
From: Rob Hanson and Kate Keplinger <katerob at erols.com>
Subject: Another AHA post

First, a question: who is Brian Rezac?

I've been brewing for a little over a year now, and have just passed the
one hundred gallon mark.  I also just joined the AHA, not because of who
worked there, but because I was interested in the magazine, the web
site, the competition program, the information, and of course the dream
of one day attending the Great American Beer Festival (so many
beers...).

The past few digests have been heavy on indignant posts about the
internal workings of the AHA, with a few suggestions of boycott, forming
a new organization, etc.  There have also been a lot of good ideas about
what that organization could be, and how benefits might be structured
(read 'what potential and former members *really* want').

One thing that might be helpful is to put those ideas to work at the AHA
instead of taking your dues and starting another club.  I imagine that
the AHA and their umbrella organization has a pretty extensive
infrastructure that would be costly  to re-create for a new
international club (though I agree that if I lived in another country
than a North American one, I might find the 'American' off-putting).  I
suggest that communities like this one are an important voice that the
AHA listens to, and the experience I've seen on this digest would be a
*great* complement to the AHA.

I've copied this message to Paul Gatza (thanks for your recent post to
the list, Paul), and maybe we can all start some healthful dialog with
the AHA about how members want to
1. Brew great beer
2. Learn about the world's brewing traditions
3. Meet other people who love beer
4, Make hombrewing a legal, vibrant hobby, and a viable business for
local homebrew shops in all fif-- excuse me, all over the world.



- -- Rob Hanson
Washington, DC
- ----

"...They have worked their will on John Barleycorn
But he lived to tell the tale,
For they pour him out of an old brown jug
And they call him home brewed ale."




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:55:04 EDT
From: CLOAKSTONE at aol.com
Subject: Mash Thickness

Re: mash thickness:  my thanks to the "real" scientists in the community.  
For me to claim that appellation would be a travesty indeed!  S. Alexander 
provides data on mash thickness and fermentability.  The puzzle remains a bit 
unsolved for me, though, as I wonder if there is enough of a difference 
between 1.25qt/pound and 1.7 qt./pound - can anyone out there confirm whether 
PU, as an example, mashes in with an extremely wet mash - 3qt./pound?  I 
would love to see Hall's study go further out to this realm, and see the 
results.

The point about thermal mass is well taken.  The postings seem to refer 
though, to availability of substrate-enzyme reactions, with freer mobility, 
etc.  My original point was this: if a thinner mash provides a greater amount 
of energy to the soup, and beta is more heat labile than alpha, then wouldn't 
one expect a more ready denaturing of available beta v. available alpha; the 
discussions of availability (rate of diffusion, etc.) don't seem relevant to 
me.  Of course, I took no courses in kinetics or biochem...so I stand 
courageously ready to be corrected.

Of course, we could just try a trial, as I originally suggested (90 at 145, 3 
qts/pound v. 1 qts./pound, or something like that).

 -Paul


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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:05:04 -0400
From: "David Kerr" <dkerr at semc.org>
Subject: Who/what/when/where/why

Rich Sieben commented:
>you probalby wouldn't know where I am even if I told you, so who
really
>cares about that anyway? silliness isn't it>?

Not too silly - read on.

Joy Hansen then wrote:

>So, use of milky spore (I think this is called BT)  on your property
and
>that of your neighbors will kill off the beetles.

Joy's post did have the phrase "here in Scottsburg" in it - I'm not
keen enough on my geography to
know where Scottsburg is.  Here in MA, BT has been tried by several of
my neighbors in an attempt to
control the Jap. beetle grub's destruction of their lawns.
Apparently, the BT organism doesn't winter
over well in New England, and my neighbors' enviro-friendly actions
went for naught.

Merit is the grub control of choice here.

Dave Kerr - Needham, MA





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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:10:27 -0400
From: larson.jt at pg.com
Subject: Belgian beers?

A friend recently brought me two .75L bottles of beer from Belgium.  I plan to
try them soon, but would appreciate any description available.  One he described
as "dishwater flavor" (Yum).  They are both made by "F. Boon".  One is a
"Kriek", the other a "Geuze".  Any help is appreciated.

Todd
Cincinnati




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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:11:38 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: core of AHA troubles

In #3089 Paul responds in regards to Brian"s dismissal:
>>"Brian was in a probationary period and
unfortunately did not meet the terms of that probation.<<"

How cute, most "probationary periods" are about 90 days,
not 3 years. I makes me wonder who was watching over
him during this period? Why did it take so long to figure out
he was a disorganized liar? Whose decision was it to
remainder out the "Classic Styles" series with no warning
to the homebrew wholesalers or shops? I don't think
that was Brian"s decision. Who thinks that after the devaluation
of $200 worth of my stock that I should risk that with the new,
more expensive, "Classics II" series? 

  You see in business it is always the manager that is responsible
for what goes on with the "line", but it is always the lower schmuck
that is held responsible; you know, the old "shxt rolls downhill"
adage and "the cream rises to the top", well sometimes turds float too.
  Then Paul says,
>>"But it is because I work for the members
that I had to make a change to protect the interests of the members who
entrust us with dues to promote the hobby of homebrewing ..<<"
  Well it hasn't happened for years and you're seeing the result.
  So you see that I am not _all_venom and have at least one constructive
concept; put the club only competitions back on a regular schedule, so
brewers know that Weiss is Nice is July, Best of Fest is October, Stout
Bout
is January...etc. So brewers can brew to a plan ahead of time from year 
to
year and participate. If you want something to change or some "other"
category put it at the end of the cycle so, again, the brewers have 
notice.
Oh yeah, and make sure the judging points get registered, it won't work 
if
the "organization" gets its' money and the judges get screwed.

   Just a little pissed in Pittsburgh...
        N.P. (Del) Lansing
  


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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:25:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO <skotrat at yahoo.com>
Subject: International HomeBrewing Alliance or... International HomeBrewing Association



Hi, 

I would be interested in hearing from clubs and homebrewers about the
possibility of starting the International HomeBrewing Alliance or...
International HomeBrewing Association. 

I may be wrong. I may be nuts but I really believe that a true grass
roots effort and alliance amongst homebrewers is out there wanting to
come out. 

Lemme know. 

 -Scott
===
ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT
Scott Abene <skotrat at mediaone.net>
http://skotrat.dynip.com/skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page)

"The More I know about beer politics, The more I wish I made 120k"
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:45:05 -0600 (MDT)
From: uhlb at cobank.com
Subject: Tobacco Mosaic & Canning

I'd not heard of the tobacco mosaic issue with using nicotine as a garden
poison.  I've been using this method for years with stale pipe tobacco and
not had a single problem.  OTOH, I've not really used it for aught in the
nightshade family.  Perh. it's an issue with the cheaper products such as
cigarettes (wh. are mostly chemicals and paper IIRC anyway).  Or perh.
I've just been lucky.  Maybe I'll plant a tomato to see...
  BTW, an interesting bit of trivia is that tobacco is fermented during
its aging process.  Snuff (real snuff, not Copenhagen) is fermented a
second time.

Dave Burley seems to think that I can at low temperatures.  Actually, I
don't can at all.  What I had meant to convey was that you can reheat
canned green beans by immersing the can in water and bringing to a boil.
For some reason (I have a theory or two, but they're prob. nonsense), this
results in green beans which taste _almost_ fresh.  Not nearly as good as
real green beans, but much better than normal dumped-out-of-the-can beans.
I first learned this trick when I went to the National Jamboree at Fort
A.P. Hill in Scouts.
  And no, the can does not explode, as some of my aquaintance seem to
believe.

So I'm afraid that the life insurance policy wouldn't do you much good
Dave:-)

Bob Uhl




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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:54:54 -0500
From: "Curt Abert" <abert at flanders.isgs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: the HBD / drip pans / another stupid AHA trick

Greetings!

Jim Kingsberg expressed his view of the HBD:
> The HBD is serving basically two types of homebrewers; the
> newbie and the scientist.  There will always be rants unrelated to brewing
> and they will generally die quiet deaths.

Yes, there are newbies, and there are hard-core brewers who *love* the
scientific aspects of brewing, but there are many others in between.  There
is certainly place for all, including recipe givers, gadgeteers, those who
search for historic beers, etc.  The range of discussion topics is vast,
although
summertime usually means less talk about actually brewing (like this post!).

- -----

Adam Holmes asks about drip pans...

I purchases a stainless drip pan for use with my 3-tap keggerator.  It
was only $25, and does not have a drain.  I decided it would be easier
to clean a drainless tray than try to rig up something to deal with a tray
with a drain (like I want to have a bucket of stale beer in the fridge...).
It can hold quite a bit of foam and drips, and really isn't any big deal to
clean.  I usually wash it once a week (with my 'normal' usage), or after
a party.   Mine doesn't seem to get smelly.  Actually, the drips usually
dry up and there isn't any mold growth.  Of course YMMV.

- ------

Yet again, the AHA seems to do us all a dis-service, and fires Brian
Rezac, the only one at the AHA who really seemed to even *care*
about the homebrewing community at large.  Paul, who used to post
here and seemed to genuinely care about the community, towed the
company line in defending Brian's release.  I sure hope Jethro knows
what he is getting into, and more power to him if he can promote
change for the better (but I'm not going to hold my breath...).


For those who may not know...
YMMV = Your Milage May Vary, meaning your results may be different
than mine.  It is just an abbreviation that used to be used *alot* on a
kinder and gentler HBD.

Cheers!

Curt Abert
Champaign IL


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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:02:31 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: demise of the AHA

I, too, canceled my membership to the AHA some years back.  This
was mitigated by two factors and confirmed by two more:  (1)  I
never did understand what the "Association" did anyway.  All I
ever got from them was Zymurgy and offers to buy more stuff...oh
yes, and a coaster.  Besides, the advent of Brewing Techniques
provided a publication with more interesting information to me
personally (No, I'm not totally objective on this one as I've
been published in BT; I did have a subscription for five years
before the article was printed, though.)  (2)  That god-awful
"special" issue of Zymurgy titled "Why We Brew."  I didn't pay
for a magazine to tell me why other people brew.  I could care
less.  Give me information I could use in my brewing or tell me
WHAT other people do, but not why unless the why is related to
the what.  The fact that they spent a full 17% of my subscription
on such a topic (more appropriate for a "free" forum like the
HBD) made me immediately cancel my subscription since the value
was totally non-existent.  (3)  After canceling my original
subscription I won another year's subscription in a competition
[killer barley wine, by the way].  I never received one copy.
When the competition organizer called the AHA, he was told the
situation would be repaired that day.  I never received one
issue.  It's a terrible day when an organization which is
supposed to support homebrewing can't even live up to its
commitment to provide a prize in a homebrewing competition.
Finally (4)...When the old issues of the "Brewing in Styles"
series went out of print, I've been told (yes, it's third hand,
but a reliable source) that the AHA sold these books for between
$1-$2 to a giant mega-mega book store (I'll give you two
guesses...) to get rid of old stock.  They weren't even offered
to the homebrew store community on the cheap to promote sales.  I
know of several HB shops who refuse to carry any of the new BiS
books or Zymurgy because of this complete betrayal of the AHA's
roots.  Do you think the AHA could have survived if local
homebrew shops didn't stock Zymurgy?  Would readership have ever
grown?  I think not.  The demise of the AHA is its own fault
through lack of leadership (3 directors in the last 4-5 years!!)
and failure to know its audience.

If Paul Gatza's assertion that Brian couldn't handle the
administrative aspects of his job is true, get the man some
help!  If Brian is winning back support of the AHA (I admit his
presence on this forum *almost* made me participate in Big Brew)
then you need to let him loose where he's succeeding and find
assistance where he needs help.  It's how you manage an
organization.  Just from seeing his posts here, it's clear that
he was not totally incompetent and a little effective management
could have worked wonders.  When promising employees don't live
up to expectations the blame must be shared with management.  The
AHA should ask itself how it could help its employees instead of
simply firing them when they don't meet all expectations.  BTW,
as a non-profit, can't the AHA's financial records be requested
by any of it's members???  Just a thought.

BTW, I fully support a new grass-roots homebrewing organization
and am willing to provide whatever services/ support that I can
to the endeavor.

Cheers!
Marc Sedam



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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:59:56 -0400
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Minikeg Carbonation

Jeff Hall ( hallj at targen.com ) writes to complain about the carbonation
levels that he is finding in his 5l minikegs.  I really like the size of
these kegs and think that they have a great future in homebrewing.  They
are perfect for the homebrewer who wants to dump bottling, but cannot
dedicate a whole fridge to 5 gal corny kegs.  There are some severe
problems with the system.  The kegs can over carbonate and bluge.   This
does irrepairable damage to the keg.  For about a year we have been
marketing "Phil's Relieph Bung" ( no stinking trademark symbol needed).  
It
is a minikeg bung that has been modified with a pressure relief valve 
built
into it.  The kegs bluge at about 60 psi.  The Relieph Bung is designed 
to
vent around 30 psi and close at about 20 psi to protect the keg.  Please
note that the Bung is not  meant to control carbonation levels, it is 
there
to protect the keg.  


I use one tablespoon of corn sugar per keg to carbonate.  This has always

served me very well. If more carbonation is desired, more sugar could be
added, but I would not do that without a Relieph Bung.

The other severe problem with 5l mini kegs is the taps.  The German taps
are expensive, fragile and not very reliable.  They can leak and are 
easily
broken.  Starting next week we will be introducing the "Philtap." ( 
again,
no stinking trademark symbol required)  It is constructed of plated brass

and copper with a detachable plastic 12g CO2 dispenser ( the kind used to

inflate bike tires).  It has a very low profile requiring only an inch of

space above the keg when operated vertically.  The dip tube is curved so
that it can be operated horizontally for an even lower profile so that it

will fit on a lower shelf of your fridge for enhanced spousal
acceptability. The faucet is the common, proven picnic tap.  They should 
be
priced somewhere between the two German taps.

Ask your local retailer to call us!

Dan Listermann   dan at listermann.com      72723.1707 at compuserve.com

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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:15:51 -0500
From: John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: RE: Ring Burners Needed - not complete brewstands

Brett wrote,

>I have been searching the internet and emailing suppliers and hb shops
>looking to buy only the cast ring burners and hoses w/regulators for adding
>to my new brewstand. But so far no luck finding them as loose parts. Any
>recommendations or sources people know of for these things?

I, too, had a hard time finding a burner but finally stumbled onto them at
a propane gas supplier in East Texas.  I had looked all over Dallas and found
what was purported to be a 170,000 btu burner but wasn't.  They had both kind
at the East Texas propane dealer and that guy knew a hell of a lot more than
the guy at the grill specialty store in Dallas.  Cheaper too.  Look for a
rural propane supplier.  Those guys seem more familiar with propane burners
than the fancier city stores.  At least around here.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas



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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:16:17 +0000
From: joseph_labeck_jr at email.com
Subject: An Alternative to the AHA?

Hi, folks;
	During the last round of AHA complaints (last year?), I had 
posted a comment about us folks of the HBD being a possible 
nucleus for a new organization.
	I got a couple of people who said they felt very much like I did. 
They didn't have the time or where-withal to devote to the task, but 
were willing to help.
	I think the time has now come to fish or cut bait, stand up and 
be counted or forever hold our peace, s--- or get off the pot. One 
thing has recently changed. I have even less money than I did back 
then (which wasn't much), but I have LOADS of time, since I just 
lost my job. I'm willing to work for a new, grassroots, member-
driven organization.
	I'd like to hear from Brian about his termination. Having just 
gone through it myself, I can sympathize. And I realize that his 
perception of the situation may be very different from what we get 
from Paul Gatza's post.
	I think it's time we do something, instead of complaining about 
what isn't being done.
Joe Labeck - die-hard extract brewer



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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:13:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Wedge <markwedge at yahoo.com>
Subject: Help!!! Need article from MBAA Technical Quarterly

I was reading through some back issues of Brewing Techniques last night
and came across an article in the Gleanings from the Field column that
I am interested in.  It is an item about Continuous Specific Gravity
Monitor. It says that the article is in the MBAA technical Quartely
35(2), pp. 78-83(1998).
I was wondering if anyone has this and can get me a copy of the
article.
Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in Advance

Mark A. Wedge

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Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:50:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jack Baty <jack at wubios.wustl.edu>
Subject: re: drip pans

> 2) How do you maintain your drip trays?  Do these things get smelly fast?
> 
> 3) Anyone ever make their own drip tray?  I'm looking for cheap first and
> beauty second.
> 
> Thanks,
> Private email OK
> 
> Adam Holmes

I made my own drip pan based, I think, on an idea on got from the homebrew
digest quite a while back.  My drip pan is simply a plastic trough used
for wetting wallpaper.  The pan is about two feet long, five inches wide,
and five inches deep.  It's on the floor under my two taps.  It's big
enough that it could handle several more.  What's special is that it's
got a one-inch layer of rock salt in the bottom of it.  This seems to keep
drips and spills from growing mold or bacteria.  Plus, it doesn't smell.

I've been using this for well over a year now.  I've only changed the salt
once and that was when I found that my brother-in-law had been pouring the
foam out of his glass into the trough so he could get a full pint.

Jack Baty
St. Louis MO


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Date: 23 Jul 1999 14:53:19 -0400
From: RCAYOT at solutia.com
Subject: AHA poll, Minkegs

     first to the AHA question.  The AHA serves one very important function 
     and that is the focal point of various homebrew clubs, and some 
     homebrew contests.  beyond that, nothing I can see that would benefit 
     me, and little else to benefit a new homebrewer.  A new brewer would 
     be better served by joining a local homebrew club.  That said, if 
     there was an organization that would take up the club and contest 
     organizing efforts of the AHA, and focus on helping people brew better 
     beer, heck, I would join even without a useless magazine!  I certainly 
     hope that the advertising efforts about homebrewing have an effect, we 
     are having a hard time keeping our clubs membership stable, never mind 
     growing!
     
     Mini-kegs:Jeff Hall asks about mini-kegs.  Well my experience was 
     mixed, I liked them for a while, but outgrew them.  I liked the 
     convenience of having a large format container at bottling time to 
     save time and energy.  I also liked the beer I got from the keg, but 
     several things needed to be done.  the first is get the better keg 
     regulator/dispenser, there IS a difference between the Stainless and 
     the plastic!  Second is the need to relieve the pressure, and 
     dispense into a pitcher.  I found that if you just open up and 
     dispense into a pitcher, then let the foam subside, it would have a 
     reasonable amount of carbonation, and seemed to taste better than 
     the bottled version.  (I always had trouble with that, how can 
     container size effect the taste of the brew?  Is it surface to 
     volume?  Is surface hazardous to beer?) anyway, this works, 
     especially if you are serving more people like at a party.  I found 
     that the cartridges worked for pushing out beer after the initial 
     perssure wore off, and a little for keeping th ecarbonation in the 
     beer, but it is not the same as having the control of a real 
     pressure regulator on a keg.  when I got my kegs, I have never 
     bottled since!  I couldn't say that I never wanted to bottle when I 
     had mini-kegs.  Good luck.  In fact, I have recently been thinking 
     of resurecting my mini's I have found out that the "carbonator" fits 
     the threads on my mini regulator, so next homebrew club meeting, I 
     can take 5 liters and have it under CO2 (from my kegging system, and 
     bring a single cartridge for dispense aid), and keep some pressure 
     on the beer a while.  I usually take a half gallon of beer in a 
     growler (half gallon jug!) to the meetings, which works okay, but 
     has a very short life, and after about an hour, if there is any beer 
     left, it is pretty flat, and about then, I asm wishing I had brought 
     it in a mini!
     
     Roger Ayotte



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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:37:41 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Maillard reactions/pCooking/boiling ...

Some Sci Content - page down anyway.

Someone said ...
>An easy way to boil things under pressure is to fill a Mason jar all the
>way with water, then place in a pot of water and bring to boil.

The point of pressure cooking is NOT to achieve head pressure
at 212F and thus prevent a boil as this method does, but to reach
a controlled elevated temp (~35F higher at 15psig for example).

When treating wort this way  maillard reactions which produce flavor active
compounds (including many described as 'malty') occur at a significantly
higher
rate at higher temp as I posted in the archives.  If you provide a boil at
these
elevated temps, the flocculation and hops utilization are amazing too.

- --
Steven Smith asked about pCooking extract/partial mash.
Haven't tried it, but there is no good reason to think it would not be
effective.

- ---
It appears that there are good reasons to expect better maillard results
from a thick pressure cooked decoction pull !! Something I haven't tried
yet.

Microwave and steam heating of baked cooks never achieves the proper
combination of moisture and temp at the surface of baked goods to create
Maillard products. Interesting that  pCooking wort is as effective as it
is.-
since the saturated water condition is not ideal either.

It's just conjecture at the moment, but I suspect that 'baking' or pressure
cooking
dampened and acidified malt *might* be a lot more effective at creating
desirable
malty flavors even than pressure cooking wort.

So why doesn't munich or melanoidin malt solve the 'malty sandwich' quest ?
Maybe freshness is the issue.  A lot of the flavor compounds are volatile.
Anyone
who has made crystal or dark malts at home knows the major aroma decline
that take place in a matter of days or weeks after kilning.

 -S






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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:31:09 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: beetles

>So, use of milky spore (I think this is called BT)  on your property and
>that of your neighbors will kill off the beetles.

I looked into this a while back.  BT - (Bacillus Thurengensis) is rated as
INEFFECTIVE as a control for Japanese beetle grubs by several state
departments of agriculture.  Several have web sites.  It's probably just an
expensive waste of time & effort in Ohio,KY and several surrounding states.
It caused only a small drop in infestation levels in one long term study.
This product is heavily hyped locally tho'.

Best use for j.beetle traps - gifts to your neighbors.
 -S




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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:02:42 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Brian Brew Ha Ha

It's amazing how some people on this forum just have to sound off on things
when they don't know the facts.  Do you just like to see your thoughts in
print?  When the AHA had problems in organizing the NHC in Boston, some
folks here took them to task!  When there were a number of competitions
without BJCP points recorded, the AHA got the worst of the comments.  But
when Paul took corrective action, again there's stupid calls for boycotts.
Let me ask those that want to stumble about in the dark what they would do?
The AHA staff is down to two full time people (although there is some
support staffs in the AOB).  Organization isn't working out like it is
supposed to be.  So what do they do?  Can't afford to hire more people.
It's an unfortunate business decision that Paul took but a courageous one.
Personally, I really like Brian as well.  He's the sort of people we want in
the hobby and in the AHA.  But if the AHA is to help their members by
providing the services you want, then they have to have the ability to staff
accordingly to make that happen.  Get all the facts, then think about it
before sounding off....

Dave Houseman


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Date: 23 Jul 99 17:44:22 PDT
From: Paul Kerchefske <fritz6 at netscape.net>
Subject: CAP- corn

  I usually take notes on things I might need to use at some time,but I 
can't
recall what type of corn is preferred in a CAP. Being a northerner corn 
grits
are not very popular around here. I looked at the grocery store and what 
I
found was hominy -white grits (instant), next to oatmeal in the cereal 
isle. I
have also found ground corn meal. I also have access to regular flaked 
corn
for brewing. Thanks,Paul.

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---