---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  (Fwd) Bending SS ("Keith Christian")
  re: Prickly question... (Dick Dunn)
  Kegging ("Rick Wood")
  SAB buys 'first Pilsner on earth' ("Braam Greyling")
  Dunkelweizen ("Fred L. Johnson")
  Re: Dunkelweiss ("Dave Humes")
  Re: Dunkelweizen Grain Bill? (Jeff Renner)
  More adventures in cereal cooking (Paul Shick)
  Salt Lake City (Brian Morgan)
  Cobalt blue bottles (Chad Petersen)
  keg momily (MVachow)
  BT issues wanted and available (Dave Burley)
  Re.: Looking for Framboise recipe ("Sean Richens")
  re: Bending SS tubing ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Mini-kegs vs bottling ("Matt M. Smiley")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:53:25 -0700
From: "Keith Christian" <kchris1 at lausd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: (Fwd) Bending SS


- ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:           	Self <keith>
To:             	weg at micro-net.net
Subject:        	Bending SS
Date sent:      	Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:02:57 -0700


Bill,

I understand you want to bend some ss.  My brother has a tube 
machine which can bend 1 inch ss, flare it and put fittings on the 
ends!  I am not sure what all you want to do, but I may be able to 
help.

Let me know

Keith Christian
kchris1 at lausd.k12.ca.us


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Date: 7 Oct 99 23:36:10 MDT (Thu)
From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: re: Prickly question...

Re prickly pear, Dave Burley wrote:
> If you are going to handle them for cutting or
> crushing, the time honored way is to stick a
> fork in one and hold it over a gas flame to
> burn off those little spines which will live in
> your hands for weeks if you don't pay attention
> to this...

Absolutely!  Do not even think of messing with these things until you get
rid of the thorns.  They are barbed so as to embed themselves and work into
your skin in a way you will never believe until you experience it...in this
case, vicarious experience is the best.

> Otherwise, bring out your peeler or knife, as the skin
> undoubtedly has some healthy tannins and a
> vegetal taste - taste it - and would inferfere with
> the delicate nature of the fruit and the pyment mead.   

Not true.  (Dave said he hasn't made a mead from PP; I've made several.)
The skin isn't a problem overall.

> As with any fruit, I would suggest you use some
> pectic enzyme to prevent having a cloudy wine
> and to improve your extraction from the fruit.

Again, not a problem.  It's particularly interesting since I know I've seen
some sort of prickly-pear jelly, but as far as I can tell there is *no*
pectin in these things...I've cooked 'em for hours, pressed out the juice,
and made sparkling-bright mead without any pectinase.

Note, btw, that I didn't ferment on the fruit.  I extracted juice, then
cooked the fruit to extract more juice, etc., then fermented with the
juice.  This works, and as far as I could tell (by tasting free-run juice
beforehand against pressed juice after cooking) didn't make a difference.

> Also recommended is adding an 1/8 tsp of
> sodium or, better, potassium metabisulfite
> directly to the fruit fo each 5 gallons of wine
> you will make. If less than that, make up
> a solution of 1/4 tsp of metabisulfite and
> divide it by 10. each 1/10 will be sufficient for a
> gallon. The main purpose is to keep the fruit
> from undergoing oxidative browning while you
> prepare it and the fermentation gets started.

Also not needed, not a problem.  I don't know, but I suspect this is
because there's negligible tannin in the fruit.  I've had it stay pink-
to-purple (like the color of a very young red wine) for a long time.

Oh, and Dave's right that you don't want a strongly attenuative yeast.
It wants a bit of sweetness--I'd say 0.5-1.0% residual sugar, if you can
calibrate that with your tongue.

> Can you say Pretty Pink Prickly Pear Pyment
> three times after a few glasses of it?

Ouch!  I wouldn't say "pyment" (except for the alliterative value) but if
you can say that after a *few* glasses, you must have small glasses.  When
I made my first PP mead, it earned the name "Sunset Seduction" from the
color and the effect (not [necessarily] sexual, just seductive).  After 12
years, that one has faded a bit but is still special.
- ---
Dick Dunn          rcd at talisman.com          Hygiene, Colorado  USA
   ...Don't lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools.


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Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:35:14 +1000
From: "Rick Wood" <thewoods at netpci.com>
Subject: Kegging

Hello All,

I wanted to comment regarding the ongoing discussion about kegging,
specifically  minikegs and soda kegs.

I started out using bottles and didn't like all the work and didn't like
priming.

I then got a minikeg system and used it for several years.  I really like
them, but I to had problems with leaking cartridges and didn't like priming.

I then got a party pig.  I really liked it as well but didn't like the pouch
and didn't like priming.

I then got a soda keg system and I really like it as well.  I especially
like the carbonation control and speed that I now have, but I don't like the
size.  I have a brewing frig but use it for beer storage and fermentation as
well.

My routine is now to ferment the beer in a 6.5 gal carboy.  I then secondary
in a 5 gal carboy.  At the end of secondary I transfer the beer into three 5
gallon kegs (two kegs with 4-4.5 gal each and 1 keg with the remainder (2-3
gal).  I usually make 10 to 11 galons of beer at a time so primary in two
6.5 gal carboys and transfer to two 5 gallon carboys for secondary.  The 5
gal carboys are usually filled up to the neck.  I transfer to three kegs so
as to have good head space for easy carbonation.

I then carbonate with carbon dioxide for 2-3 days.  Then I do a combination
of things.

1.  I usually leave some beer in the soda keg (the one holding 2-3 gallons)
and serve from it first.
2.  I usually fill 1 - 2 doz of Grolch bottles.
3.  I fill one or two Party Pigs
4.  I fill the remainder in minikegs.

Step 2-4 are done by counterpressure filling the appropriate receptacle from
the soda kegs.  The process works great but is obviously more work than
leaving in soda kegs.  The advantage is that I have a variety of containers
for a variety of purposes.  I have the soda kegs out of my brewing frig and
ready for the next fermentation before all of the beer is gone! and I only
have to store beer in the family frig for a short time.   Works great for
me.

Rick Wood
Brewing on Guam



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Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:04:39 +200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azona.com>
Subject: SAB buys 'first Pilsner on earth'

SAB buys 'first Pilsner on earth'
London  South African Breweries gulped down the two top breweries in
beer-loving Czech Republic on Thursday and said it would propel the famed
Pilsner Urquell brand into premium export markets.
In a deal worth up to $630 million by 2001, the world's fourth largest
brewer edged out its rivals to take control of Pilsner Urquell and 
Radegast.
It was SAB's biggest acquisition since its listing on the London Stock
Exchange in March and made it the leading brewer in central Europe, 
doubling
annual production.
PILSNER BRAND STRONG IN EUROPE
The prize was Pilsner Urquell, a golden lager cherished by Czechs as a
national treasure since 1842 and copied by brewmasters around the world.
Analysts and investors liked the look of SAB's Czech buys and said the
strategy to promote "the first Pilsner on earth" would probably succeed, 
at
least in Europe.
"I think it will work in certain markets," said Colin Davies, analyst at
Goldman Sachs.
"The brand is known reasonably well in the UK and particularly in markets
like Germany, Hungary and Poland."
SAB will pay $321m for 51% of a joint venture with Nomura Securities, the
Japanese investment bank which bought the two breweries over the past two
years and is merging them.
Put and call options will enable SAB to achieve 100% ownership by June 
2001
for a further $308m.
At 1310 GMT SAB's stock price was up 2.4% in London at 563 pence.
SAB said the latest acquisitions meant the group's earnings split was 
about
70% from inside South Africa and 30% from outside. SAB wants to lessen its
dependency on the domestic market and its goal is a 50-50 split.
SAB's group corporate finance and development director, Malcolm Wyman, 
said
the Czech buys had certainly not exhausted its warchest.
"This is the first significant step since we came to London and is not the
end of what we were intending to do," he said.
NOMURA MAY STAY FOR THE BEER
The South Africans already have operations in Hungary, Poland, Romania,
Slovakia and Russia. Pilsner Urquell and Radegast give it 44% of the Czech
market.
The country has the highest annual per capita beer consumption in the
world - 160 litres (285 pints).
Analysts said SAB had paid a full price due to competition in the auction
process from Dutch brewer Heineken NV.
Nomura has the option to keep a minority stake in the joint venture after 
it
helps SAB settle in at the breweries and obtain approval for the
 sale from the Czech authorities.
But Davies said it was almost certain Nomura would yield its 49 percent
stake to SAB.
"Ultimately Nomura's a bank rather than a brewer," he said.
Pilsner Urquell has been made in the same brewhouse in Plzen (Pilsen) 
since
its birth. SAB promised to keep standards high and not to undermine 
Pilsner
Urquell's "traditional heritage".
Randall Dillard, the chairman of Pilsner Urquell and managing director at
Nomura International, said "hand on heart", there was no risk to the 750
jobs at the two breweries.
"(They) already operate to European levels of efficiency per employee but
their labour costs are one quarter of those of Germany," he said.


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Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 07:26:38 -0400
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Dunkelweizen

Phil Sides asks about converting a weizen to a dunkelweizen by 
substituting Munich and/or Vienna for Pale or 2-row in his weizen
recipe.

I brew a hefeweizen that is 60% wheat, 40% Munich (6.5L).  Having a
final color of about 7 SRM, it is not a Dunkel.
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA


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Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:29:26 -0400
From: "Dave Humes" <humesdg1 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Dunkelweiss

Phil,

Unless your Munich is really dark, you are not going to get the roasted malt
character and color you want.  Vienna is even lighter.  I did a weizenbock
with 40% Munich and 60% malted wheat back in February.  I was hoping for
some level of richness in color and maltiness beyond a standard weizen.  It
was a little darker than usual, but definitely not dark enough to be
considered a dunkelweizenbock.  Now, if you are using decoction, you MAY get
enough darkening, but I doubt it.

I did my first dunkelweiss a few months ago and I used some roasted malt to
achieve the required color depth and roasted malt character.  Here's the
grain bill.  The estimated final color was 11.4 Lvb.

24.1% German Pils, 1.6 Lvb
60.24% German Wheat malt, 1.8 Lvb
9.64% German Munich, 10 Lvb
6.02% Schreier Carmel 60, 60 Lvb

It was a little lighter than required for the style, but that was
intentional.  I was doing a split batch comparing two weissbier yeasts and I
didn't want the dark malt character to overpower.

Hope this helps.

- --Dave





> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 02:11:23 -0400
> From: phil sides jr <psides at carl.net>
> Subject: Dunkelweizen Grain Bill?
>
> A question for the German Wheat experts...  I have been brewing a Weizen
> that is quite good with the following grain bill (10 gallons):
> 10# Wheat Malt
> 9# Pale Malt
> 1# Six Row
>
> I want to try my hand at a Dunkelweizen now and my thought was to to
> leave the Wheat the same and replace the Pale and Six Row with Munich
> and Vienna.  If this is a viable option, what quantities should I use?
> Also, light or dark Munich or both?
>
> Phil Sides, Jr.
> Concord, NH
> - --
> Macht nicht o'zapft ist, Prost!
>




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Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:43:40 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Dunkelweizen Grain Bill?

phil sides jr <psides at carl.net> wrote:

>I want to try my hand at a Dunkelweizen now and my thought was to to
>leave the Wheat the same and replace the Pale and Six Row with Munich
>and Vienna.  If this is a viable option, what quantities should I use?
>Also, light or dark Munich or both?

Durst and perhaps others make a Dunkelweizenmalz, or dark wheat malt, which
is more or less a Munich made from wheat.  You might try up to1/6 each
Munich, dark Munich and 2/3 dark wheat, or include some Pils, Vienna and/or
pale wheat, depending on how dark you want it.  Dunkelweizen made with no
chocolate, crystal or, God forbid, black malts are far more authentic than
those made with them.  Then of course the next step is a Dunkelweizenbock.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:03:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu>
Subject: More adventures in cereal cooking

 

Hello all,

	Just a couple of quick comments on cereal cooking, a
thread that recurs here from time to time.  I started by following
Jeff Renner's instructions on cooking corn grits and corn meal,
then did a bit experimenting, and I've got a few conclusions to
pass on.  As you might recall, Jeff has suggested adding about one
pound of malt to every three pounds of corn, resting at 158F for
a bit to get some conversion, raising to boiling to get full
gelatinization, then adding to the main mash (along with other
low temperature fiddling, which he considers more optional.)

	First, if you use larger size corn grits (like the
organic degermed grits from a health food coop,) be certain to
do at least a 45 minute boil, after whatever lower temperature
rests you start with.  The larger diameter grits seem to take a 
lot longer than finer corn meal, and the extraction suffers 
dramatically if you try just a 20-30 minute boil.  Jeff has 
informed me that Wahl and Henius documented this near the turn 
of the century, and it seems unlikely that we need to have lots
of repetitions of this particular experiment.  Second, be very 
careful if you use corn meal from the opposite end of the spectrum:
very fine corn meal (like Quaker) can be a lautering nightmare, if
used in large quantities.  I used 4 pounds of Quaker fine corn meal
(half yellow, half white) with 15 pounds of two row and Munich, trying 
to make 11 gallons of serious CAP.  After adding the cereal mash to 
the main mash (raising from 148F to 156F,) and resting for a while, 
I started recirculating the wort with my pump and encountered a
pretty nasty set mash.  If you lauter by gravity, a set mash is 
a bit inconvenient, but some patience is all that's really required.
If you do a RIMS type recirculation and pump the sweet wort to the
kettle, a set mash is a serious headache.  Have you ever seen 3/4
inch ID tubing (with SS mesh reinforcement) collapse?  I'm awfully
glad that I finally sorted out a good support system for my false
bottom, or I'm certain it would have caved in.  In any case, I suggest
large granule corn meal (maybe even polenta) or grits, if you're
doing cereal cooking with a pump lautering system.

	Despite some occasional bumps, cereal cooking is really
quite fun, and I heartily recommend it to those who make CAPs and
CACAs.  

   			Paul Shick 
 			Basement brewing in Cleveland Hts OH

 



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Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:29:28 -0400
From: Brian Morgan <brian.k.morgan at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Salt Lake City

Hi, all -
   I am considering a relocation to Salt Lake City (from Cincinnati),
and wondered if anyone has any recommendations for homebrew shops out
there?  I'm afraid that Listermann would be just too far to drive!  And
while I'm at it, brew pub recommendations in SLC would be appreciated,
as well.
   Also, I'm planning on picking up some soda kegs (I've been bottling
everything so far).  Are there any pros/cons on pin-lick vs ball lock?
    Thanks!
       Brian
      brian.k.morgan at worldnet.att.net



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Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:21:58 -0700 
From: Chad Petersen <Chad.Petersen at wwu.edu>
Subject: Cobalt blue bottles

Ed,
 E-Z Cap, a manufacturer in Canada makes them but your supply store can
order them for you.  I just purchased 2 cases of the 1 liter size for my
trappist that is hanging out in the secondary...  They are beautiful.
Chad
The URL is: http://www.ezcap.net/

 -


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Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:45:33 -0500 
From: MVachow at newman.k12.la.us
Subject: keg momily

Although my research was not extensive, I could find no equipment suppliers
who offer 2 or 2.5 gallon pin or ball lock kegs.  I don't doubt Scott that
they exist; I've just never heard of them.  Three gallon kegs, on the other
hand, are readily to be found; they seem to run at about 3X the price of 5
gallon kegs.  At 8.5" in diameter and 17" in height, a 3 gallon keg would
occupy space in your fridge in roughly the same way three six packs of tall
boys stacked on top of each other might; move your shelves accordingly.  In
most top/bottom fridges that would allow you one more narrow shelf for the
cheese.  Side by side fridge owners would likely have a better shot at
encountering that sunny smile of spousal approval.  If your fridge is deep
enough, I guess you could lay the keg on its side hoping your lid seal
didn't leak, the dispensation pressure, after all, being subject to human
error because the CO2 is not hooked up.  Once the beer level has fallen
below the dip tube, however, you'd have to stand it up.  And, as one poster
put it so nicely yesterday, nothing says love like a CO2 tank sitting next
to the fridge.  So, yes, I guess you don't *absolutely* need an extra
fridge; to say so would be a momily.  Better to say that the exigencies of a
great many homebrewers' lives make an extra fridge synonymous with kegging
beer.  

Mike
NOLA


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Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:08:32 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: BT issues wanted and available

Brewsters:

I would like copies of BT volumes 1 thru 4 all issues except
 I have Vol 4 Number 5,

I am missing Vol 5 number 1,

I have an extra copy of Vol 5 number 3 if anyone wants it.

Name your price or we'll exchange.

Thanks,

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley

Dave_Burley at Compuserve.com
864-287-9713 phone and fax

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Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 19:07:22 -0500
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca>
Subject: Re.: Looking for Framboise recipe

If you're trying to replicate a Framboise lambic without doing the
practical degree in Microbiology, I heartily recommend cranberries.

They're cheaper than any other berries, they're available frozen, and best
of all they're so sour that they eliminate the need for lactic acid.

I suggest about 2-3 kg per 5-6 US gallons (yeah, mixed units).  I thaw them
in a bucket of water, then add 2 g metabisulphite and activate that by
adding 1/4 cup lemon juice.  Hold your breath, the fumes are severe!

I then crush them and toss them in at the end of the boil.  They stay in
for the duration of primary fermentation.

The best recipe is something pale with residual sweetness - either OG 1060,
or mash at 158 F, or add maltodextrin.  It takes about 2 months of bottle
aging for the harsh oxalic acid bite to fade, but then it tastes great for
2 years or more.  Oh, and to clean the bottles let them soak with some
bicarbonate to get the scum off.  And keep the calcium down because calcium
oxalate crystals are really sharp and liberate a lot of CO2 when you pop
the cap.

Good luck.

Sean



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Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 23:36:35
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: Bending SS tubing

Bill Graham posted:

>The question is- how can I bend 1/2" ss, .035 wall thickness to
>approx. 90 deg. with a 4 - 6" radius? It can be done: my keg conversion
>kit from SS in Seattle has a tube bent that way. I cant't do it by hand
>because it crimps. Can anyone reccommend a tool or somebody in the Denver
>metro area who can do this?

I've not worked with SS in that size, but packing copper tubing with sand
and sealing the ends allows for tight bends without crimping.  

Filling the tuning with a low melting temp. alloy might be worth a try.
Some melt at < 212 degF.  Small Parts ( http://www.smallpartsinc.com/ )
sells them.


c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net 
http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/



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Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 19:50:25 -0500
From: "Matt M. Smiley" <msmiley at UTMB.EDU>
Subject: Mini-kegs vs bottling


I started out brewing with mini-kegs (I call them keglets) because I got a
good deal on a bunch of them. (Wal Mart was clearing out keglets of
Warsteiner for $5 each). Generally, I fill two of them and bottle the rest.
That cuts the bottling work in half.

I've been quite pleased with their performance. No, you can't carbonate the
beer with the CO2 tap because I don't think the keg will withstand the
necessary high pressure. I naturally condition the beer in the kegs using a
75% version of the dextrose solution called for in bottling.

The point of the CO2 tap system is that you can keep a tapped keg of beer in
your fridge for much longer than those tapped with a simple air pump system.
The beer doesn't deteriorate when you use CO2 to drive it from the keg (but
will with air). The high-end tap is worth the extra bucks. When I drink my
beer at home, I drink it out of bottles. When I take my beer somewhere else,
I bring a minikeg and the CO2 tap. This is much more convenient to transport
than a Corny keg system.

The best way to acquire keglets is to buy them full of beer. You can get a
full one at a liquor store for only a buck or two more than the empty ones
cost at a home brew supply shop. The only difference is in the bung. German
breweries put a non-reusable bung with a rigid plastic skeleton in their
kegs that has to be broken up carefully and removed (A medium-sized pair of
Channel-Locks works well). Replace it with the <$1 all-rubber bung available
thru most homebrew shops and you'll be all set.




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---