HOMEBREW Digest #3142 Tue 12 October 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  NA (RJ)
  Re: Proper ball valve size? (RobertJ)
  New Style Guide ("Houseman, David L")
  KilnCoffee (Nathan Kanous)
  Re: Lagering (Jeff Renner)
  oxidation in Kegs, filling piggies ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Pumpkin Beer (Calgarey Penn)
  RE: Boinking  Minikegs (LaBorde, Ronald)
  looking for kegs ("jim williams")
  Prickly Pear mead (John Wilkinson)
  lagering and suckback ("Bayer, Mark A")
  Walk In Fridge ("Dr. Pervo")
  I need to know ("Larry R. Renegar")
  Re: Ball Valve Size and Keg Help (phil sides jr)
  Re: keg momily (smurman)
  Refractometers ("Sieben, Richard")
  SUDS question (Terry)
  Goose Island Anniversary Ale (Jim Kingsberg)
  3g soda kegs rule (Tombrau)
  Bohemian Pilsner ("John W. Thomasson")
  Pipe/tube size for kettle or mashtun, etc. ("Mr. Joy Hansen")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:54:44 -0400 From: RJ <wortsbrewing at cyberportal.net> Subject: NA Hello, I'm looking to make a low or no alcohol all-grain beer... I've been brewing for a number of years and have quite a bit of background in brewing. However, a friend who is mildly diabetic asked if I could brew such a beer. I suspect that in addition to brewing a high dextrin wort that I'd either have to have a special yeast that could assimilate some sugars in a cold respiration mode into some CO2 and some flavor compounds... Or, I could brew & ferment a standard beer and then heat it to ~160F before force carbonating to evaporate the alcohol. If anyone has had any experience making beers as such, I'd be interested to hear from you. RJ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:34:36 -0400 From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com> Subject: Re: Proper ball valve size? Jay White <jwhite at snip.net> wrote Subject: I'm busy trying to organize the proper components to set-up a 2-tier brewery using converted Sanke kegs (HLT & BV) and a Polarware (MLT). My question is if the Polarware kettle (MLT) has a 3/8" ball valve should my keg also be modified to have a 3/8" valve or could I use a 1/2" valve? Is there any restriction or benefit of either, especially since both are going to be located on the upper level tier and my pump will have to move liquids between the two vessels? 3/8" or 1/2" will make little difference other than the speed of flow. Assuming a mag drive pump the key is to have more restriction on the outflow side. this will prevent cavitation. If you want maximum flow (doubt if you would need it), without cavitation and assuming a 1/2" pump inlet & outlet you should use 1/2" full port valves on both inlet & outlet Also, what about tubing diameter, I've got reinforced 1/2"? Reiforced would work fine. If you use 1/2" with 3/8" valves you again will have to insure the outflow is more restricted than the inflow Bob: Precision Brewing Systems URL http://pbsbeer.com/pbscat.html Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:52:17 -0400 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: New Style Guide While the HBD was off the air, the BJCP adopted a new style guide which is available in Microsoft Word and PDF format on the BJCP web site, http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/style-index.html. This same style guide will be used by the AHA as well, simplifying the tasks of competition entrants, judges and organizers. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:55:51 -0500 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: KilnCoffee Hi All, I've gotten the itch to brew a porter or stout. I've used the MFB Kilncoffe malt in small amounts in a couple of beers. I was wondering if anyone has used this malt as the primary roasted malt in a porter or stout....or "other". Any feedback on this roasted malt would be appreciated. TIA nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:22:11 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Lagering Steve Jones has problems with air and the contents of his airlock being pulled back into the carboy at the end of the diacetyl rest when he's chilling to lagering temps. Several thoughts. First, if you use a "triple ripple" air lock and fill it no higher than midway on the lowest ball, it shouldn't pull any liquid back. Secondly, the diacetyl rest may not really be necessary - it depends on the yeast. Third, if you keg, you can run it into the keg at this point and seal it, then release pressure during the lagering period if it becomes excessive. Forth, if you really manage the ferment and keep head space to a minimum, the might be enough continuing gas production to keep positive pressure. This is tricky as you have noticed because as the green beer gets colder, its capacity to hold dissolved CO2 increases and will likely prevent any positive pressure. However, if you have a bit of extract left going into the lagering, which is proper, you might achieve this difficult balancing act. I myself don't use a diacetyl rest (which, of course, knocks out a bit of dissolved CO2 itself since the beer can hold less at the warmer temp.). I most often run the beer into a keg and seal it at this point, then pressure rack it off the sedimented yeast into the serving keg at the end of the lagering. This way it becomes naturally carbonated during the lagering. Besides, it seems that lagering proceeds more quickly under pressure. Of course, you have to make sure you don't have too much extract left when you seal it. If bottle bombs are no joke, imagine what a keg bomb would be! Sometimes I just leave it on the yeast if it's not going to be moved and will be consumed quickly. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:58:02 -0400 From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> Subject: oxidation in Kegs, filling piggies Rick, Do you purge the air out of your kegs before filling them? If not, leaving this large of head space can intoduce enought O2 to the beer to bring out stale cardboarding flavors, much quicker than necessary. I fill my kegs with Idophor water and push it from one keg to another, thus leaving the keg full of CO2 and sanitized. Before use it tip it upside down and use a key to depress the air valve. that will blast out any water left after drying. Tip #2 I counter pressure fill my piggies too! It takes either a #13 or #11 stopper (Special Order) Ill have to look. It is a 2 person job though. Its really difficult to maintain the pressure and keep the CPBF from popping off the keg, but with practice and a thick glove its ok. (it takes a while, and my hand gets cold) I also put an extender of platic tubing on the fill tube of the filler. I also use the CO2 tank to pop pig bag inside. Just insert the air in stem of the bulb into your co2 line and tighten with a hose clamp. usually about 20psi will give you the little Pop! your looking for. Again on the oxidation thing, burp your piggy right away to expell any air that may have been trapped during assebmly. Phil Wilcox Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:15:39 -0500 From: cpenn at interaccess.com (Calgarey Penn) Subject: Pumpkin Beer Hello everyone, My wife finally talked me into buying pumpkins for Halloween decorating, and of course, I thought about using one of them after Halloween to do a brew! Does anyone have a g ood receipe for pumpkin beer? I want to use dry malt, so I need to know how to prepare the pumpkin and incorporate it into the brew. Thanks in advance. Calgarey "Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it." Goethe "Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it." Goethe Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:13:34 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Boinking Minikegs Hello again everyone! Hey, I thought this was a respectable digest, no more talk about 'Boinked kegs' around here, please! :>)) Let's face it, those minikegs would not be my first choice for a kegging setup. Look at it this way: One can enter a room two ways 1) walk through the open doorway (best way). 2) walk through the wall (difficult way). I like to think of minikegs in a similar vein, the hard way. Sure, there will always be fringe devotes who will be happy with minikegs, but life is too short to fight this dragon. Ease up, give yourself a break, and get the 5 gal. soda keg setup. And as far as fitting in a regular fridge, many will tell you the solution is to get a 3 gal. soda keg. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:09:06 -0800 From: "jim williams" <jim&amy at macol.net> Subject: looking for kegs Hello, yesterdays post on scrounging for kegs got me thinking. Does anyone know of anywhere in the SF bayarea-Sonoma or Napa counties, that would be a good place to start looking? I'll need 1 to start, but eventually 3. Thanks, jim ps e-mail is fine, oh, and I'm cheap, so.... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:02:20 -0500 (CDT) From: John Wilkinson <John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com> Subject: Prickly Pear mead The recent discussion of prickly pear mead has me interested in trying one. I saw a lot of prickly pear with ripe fruit in west Texas the first week of September when I was hunting there but did not have any pliers with me for picking or a suitable container for holding them without getting the stickers all over me and the inside of my son's Explorer. I don't think he or his family would have appreciated the later. I have a neighbor with some prickly pear which bore a lot of fruit last year and thought I would ask him if I could have it this year if I had a good recipe. Dick Dunn wrote of making pp mead and I wondered if he would share a recipe? He also wrote: >Note, btw, that I didn't ferment on the fruit. I extracted juice, then >cooked the fruit to extract more juice, etc., then fermented with the >juice. This works, and as far as I could tell (by tasting free-run juice >beforehand against pressed juice after cooking) didn't make a difference. Was the juice first extracted cooked, too? How did you cook the fruit? With added water or the first extracted juice? John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:42:31 -0700 From: "Bayer, Mark A" <Mark.Bayer at JSF.Boeing.com> Subject: lagering and suckback collective homebrew conscience_ steve jones asked how to prevent contraction of the carboy headspace from sucking airlock liquid into the carboy during the cooldown from diacetyl rest to lagering. unless you can provide some means of positive mass flow to the headspace, via a second hole in your stopper (and a co2 source, for example), maybe you should consider not installing an airlock, or just continue using treated water and ethanol, as you say you already do. if you have kegs, you could also transfer the beer to the keg at this point to start the lagering. i usually totally remove the airlock and replace it with plastic wrap that's been sprayed with a 70% ethanol/30% water mixture. then i rubber band it over the top of the carboy, after purging the carboy headspace with co2 and spraying the ethanol mix around the outside of the neck of the 'boy. after the carboy has come to equilibrium at a colder temperature, the plastic wrap sometimes shows the volume contraction by being very slightly "sucked into" the opening. i normally include a boiled piece of aluminum foil over the top of the plastic wrap, just as a second physical barrier. it's never been necessary, so far. alternatively, you could construct a "bigger" airlock, by running a length of tubing from the top of the carboy to a bowl of sanitizer solution. this could be a smaller hose attached to the inner tube of an airlock, for example. but, before you do this, consider how you will guarantee the relative sterility of the air inside the tubing. ideally you would be able to purge it with co2, or you would have enough co2 outgassing at the moment it is installed to dilute its contents. a dual-drilled stopper is a great thing to have when it comes to purging carboys with co2. or, you may figure that at lagering temps, a few cc's of unfiltered air isn't going to do much damage, since the beer is going to be at such low temperatures from that point until it is served. by the way, those of you who are using no sanitizer in your airlocks should consider how sanitary that approach is, after active fermentation is over and gas production stops. ethanol is pretty cheap when you contemplate the miniscule amount needed to protect 5 gallons of your hard-earned brew. i personally feel that if you've done everything right up to the point where you're ready to lager the beer, and it's going to stay cold from that point until it's served, you've got to screw up pretty badly to end up with a final product that's noticeably infected or oxidized. brew hard, mark bayer stl mo Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:50:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "Dr. Pervo" <skotrat at yahoo.com> Subject: Walk In Fridge Hiya, I put together a page about my walk in fridge construction if anyone is interested in taking a look see... If'n yer gettin' bored an all. http://www.skotrat.com/brewrats/walkin.cfm I am open to comments about this monster. Oh Yea.. If you have not yet sent a donation to the HBD... Please get on it. Thanks! C'ya! -Scott ===== ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT Scott Abene <skotrat at mediaone.net> http://www.skotrat.com (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) "The More I know about beer politics, The more I wish I made 120k" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:20:56 -0400 From: "Larry R. Renegar" <longrange at rez.net> Subject: I need to know I am brewing a Dunkelweiss. The OG was 1.054. I used Whitelabs WLP 300 pitched at 70 degrees. It had a lag time of 22 hours. The first day the temp stayed about 70 to 72 degrees. The naxt morning the wife covered it because the temp was down to 65 degrees. I got the temp back up to 70 to 72 degrees. The next couple of days the temp got up to 74 to 76 degrees. Will this excessive temp be a problem? Also, I racked to my secondary when the fermentation had slowed and the fermentation has slowed to almost nothing. The SG at racking to secondary was 1.030. With this strain of yeast should I just leave it in one fermenter for the whole duration of the fermentation and bottle or should I use a secondary? Thanks, LRR longrange at rez.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:25:07 -0400 From: phil sides jr <psides at carl.net> Subject: Re: Ball Valve Size and Keg Help Jay White asks: >I'm busy trying to organize the proper components to set-up a 2-tier brewery >using converted Sanke kegs (HLT & BV) and a Polarware (MLT). My question >is if the Polarware kettle (MLT) has a 3/8" ball valve should my keg also be >modified to have a 3/8" valve or could I use a 1/2" >valve? Is there any restriction or benefit of either, especially since both >are going to be located on the upper level tier and my pump will >have to move liquids between the two vessels? My experience has been that in order for my pump to work the way I need it to, I have 1/2" on everything on the inlet side of the pump, and 3/8" on the outlet side of the pump. Actually, I throttle the pump with a 1/2" ball valve attached directly to the outlet but I reduce it to 3/8" immediately. When I first set everything up, I had 1/2" throughout and found that the pump would not build sufficient pressure on the outlet side to turn my sparge arm consistently. Just my personal experience... Everyone's setup and methods are different so YMMV. rnrduyck <rnrduyck at mnsi.net> writes: >Any info on how to >keg beer and how to clean this type of keg would be a great help. It is 'nearly' impossible and definitely impractical for a homebrewer to mess with Sankey kegs. Notice I said nearly because I am sure someone reading the HBD either does it everyday or has done it in the past ;-) Get some Corny kegs Rick, they are cheap and easy to use. Phil Sides, Jr. Concord, NH - -- Macht nicht o'zapft ist, Prost! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:03:10 -0700 (PDT) From: smurman at shell5.ba.best.com Subject: Re: keg momily > Although my research was not extensive, I could find no equipment suppliers > who offer 2 or 2.5 gallon pin or ball lock kegs. I don't doubt Scott that > they exist; I've just never heard of them. Three gallon kegs, on the other > hand, are readily to be found; they seem to run at about 3X the price of 5 > gallon kegs. At 8.5" in diameter and 17" in height, a 3 gallon keg would > occupy space in your fridge in roughly the same way three six packs of tall > boys stacked on top of each other might; move your shelves accordingly. In > most top/bottom fridges that would allow you one more narrow shelf for the > cheese. > > Mike I'm sure you can think up many reasons why such a set-up might potentially not work, especially when you've never actually tried it, but I prefer to keep an open mind and find ways I can make it a workable reality. 3 gal kegs are readily available, don't take up as much space as you imagine, and don't cost nearly as much as you think (who pays $75 for a used soda keg?!!). 2 and 2.5 gal kegs are harder to come by, but a request to your local shop owner to keep an eye out for some would likely produce surprising results. Once you have them, their lifespan is virtually infinite. I have 2 kegs in my fridge and plenty of room for food and drink (including bottled beer) for two people, one of whom doesn't drink more than an occasional sip. I'm glad you're happy with your mini-kegs or bottles, or whatever you're using, but just because you've never tried something doesn't mean it won't work. Why would you try to persuade someone against something when you have no experience with it? -SM- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:41:24 -0500 From: "Sieben, Richard" <SIER1 at AERIAL1.COM> Subject: Refractometers I have been thinking of investing in a refractometer (temperature compensating) to take gravity readings instead of the good ole hydrometer. Does anyone else out there use one of these? Any recomendations? Also, is there an easy Brix to S.G. conversion? TIA Rich Sieben Island Lake, IL home of nothing notable Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:46:20 -0400 From: terry at brewfellows.com (Terry) Subject: SUDS question I am in the process of upgrading my brewery from 5 gallon all grain to 2 barrel all grain. I multiplied the ingredients for 5 gallon by 12 and entered them into SUDS 4.0 and the IBU's are coming up way low. I am assuming this is some glitch in the program because I can see no reason for this drop off in IBU's, the gravity of the wort is the same, the boil time and temperature are the same. but this got me to thinking. Can I simply multiply my existing recipes by 12 to get a 60 gallon batch? Thanks Terry Terry White Brewfellow's Fermentation Services http://www.brewfellows.com Better Living Through Fermentation Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:24:54 -0500 From: Jim Kingsberg <fugowee at theramp.net> Subject: Goose Island Anniversary Ale Hello brewers, brewsters and Dave Burley.... Just wanted to point you to those with access to the above brew. Unbeleeeeevable! Its an ESB, dry hopped and I love it. Open a bottle and the hops aroma hits you....hard. Unfortunately, I have no affiliation with the brewery except.....well support your local brewery and this one too. Keep on brewing! Jim Kingsberg Fugowee Brewery Evanston, IL Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:01:50 EDT From: Tombrau at aol.com Subject: 3g soda kegs rule Greetings Brews Brothers I love my 3gal kegs. I rack into a 5g keg with priming sugar and transfer to a 3g keg and bottle the rest. A 10" piece of racking cane fits in the cobrahead spigot and makes for easy bottling (oxymoron). Also, for keg to keg racking place racking cane piece between the two cobraheads, tap the kegs, open spigots and voila, nice and easy,counterpressure transfer. I also have balanced the freezer/fridge temp to accomplish 68f in the fridge and 40f in the freezer. You get the picture, fermenters in the fridge, 3gal keg in the freezer (sideways,out tube down) for serving through the tap in the side of the fridge. Easy. On my spray nozzle on my sink, I cut the hose, inserted a T fitting with an out corny fitting attached. This makes for easy filling of a keg with water or rinsing a keg turned upsidedown in the sink. Just plug on the fitting and turn on the water. I had an extra gott 10g water cooler (aka: mashtun) that I rigged an out fitting and tube to the factory spigot, dropped in a full and ready to drink 3g keg, ice and small co2 tank and regulator (i use an old oxynater tank and regulator charged with 100psi co2 for dispensing-it takes 2 tanks to empty a 3g keg). This setup makes for a great tailgate party. Who would guess it were fresh homebrew pouring from this construction style water cooler. When people first see this setup, they think i just poured beer in and it is gravity feeding out the spigot. NOT. Easy portability. As you can see my vote goes to the trusty soda keg. Did I use the word "easy" too much? May all your racks be o2 free!! Tom Moench Devout tinkerer and wannabe beer engineer Mench5 at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:03:48 -0500 From: "John W. Thomasson" <jwtjr999 at flash.net> Subject: Bohemian Pilsner Hi all, Boy, am I glad the HBD is back! That was like having to quit smoking cold turkey (again). What are you supposed to do with your hands while you're at work??? ;^} Many thanks again to our esteemed janitors for their efforts in getting the server back up and running. I'm planning to make my first attempt at a Bohemian style pilsner this coming weekend (10/17). I'd like for this to be fairly close to style, plus, I went to a bit of trouble to obtain some Czech Moravian Pils malt and imported Saaz. Never having tasted the genuine article (in good condition), I have little to go on aside from the published style guidelines. BTW, did anyone ever submit questions to/get answers from the Doc Pivo "ask the Czech master brewer" thing? Not wanting to ask "how on earth do you brew a Czech beer?", I emailed a request to be copied on responses to submitted questions, but never received anything. Here's the recipe I'm considering for a 5 gallon batch: 9# Czech Moravian Pilsner malt Decoction mash: 20' at 140F 90' at 154F 10' at 168F 70 minute boil: 2 oz 3.9% AA Czech Saaz - FWH 1 oz 3.9% AA Czech Saaz - 30' 1 oz 3.9% AA Czech Saaz - 10' Wyeast 2278, 2 gallon starter OG 1.050 (85% efficiency) FG 1.015 (per guidelines) 43 IBUs (ProMash) 3.4 SRM (ProMash) Some of my questions/assumptions: 1. With a 100% Pils grist, I'm concerned about maintaining proper body in the finished beer. The published attenuation for 2278 is 70-74%. My experience is toward or beyond the high end of the range with any given strain, thus my concern for over attenuation. I need to keep it around 70%. Will a 154F sacc temp suffice, or is a higher temperature indicated? Lose the 140F rest, maybe? What about the addition of some carapils? 2. Any comments on my proposed hop schedule from the experienced Pils brewers? 43 IBUs is over the upper limit per BJCP guidelines (40), but within the upper limit of AHA guidelines (45). (I'm not afraid of the style police, but these guidelines and a distant memory of stale, light struck PU are all I have to go on here...) 3. In my experience with decoction mashing, 90% of the flavor benefits are obtained from the first decoction, 9% from the second and 1% (negligible) from the third. A triple is out of the question, and I wonder if there is any point in a double. Comments? I'm really only interested in flavor contribution from the decoction; the (slight) increase in extraction efficiency from multiples just isn't worth the time and effort, IMHO. 4. This will also be my first time to use 2278. I know that a small amount of diacetyl is desirable in this style. So, should a D-rest be employed? What about fermentation temps? Wyeast mentions in their product description that a small amount of sulfur is produced during fermentation, but dissipates with lagering. I assume the normal 8 weeks lagering at 32F is appropriate. 5. My water is very hard and high in carbonate. For this style, I think it would be better to go with distilled water and adjust with mineral salts. Has anyone treated distilled or RO water to approximate a Pilsen-type profile? If so, I would appreciate hearing about how you did it and what the result was. Any experience using Calistoga mineral water for this style? Sorry for the long post (read: "how on earth do you brew a Czech beer?"). All info, including individual data points, will be appreciated. Private email is fine. TIA, and Cheers! John Thomasson The Seven Bucket Brewery (Actually more than 7 now, but name recognition, you know...) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:22:39 -0400 From: "Mr. Joy Hansen" <joytbrew at patriot.net> Subject: Pipe/tube size for kettle or mashtun, etc. Jay White. I started with 3/8 tubing and reasoned that 3/8 ball valves would be just fine. However, finding ball valves with 3/8 inch ID proved very difficult. Half inch ball valves seem to revel in using 3/8 or less openings. I'm now trying to use 1/2 inch copper pipe and 5/8 inch valves that have a 1/2 inch opening. The imported valves seem to have the smallest openings. The domestic, if you can find them, are much closer to the line ID. Cost is certainly a factor and might force your decisions. I recommend welding 3/4 couplings, or what ever they are called, to the keg. This way, you'll never be sorry for choosing a small size that you can't change. Joy"T"Brew Return to table of contents
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