HOMEBREW Digest #3152 Sat 23 October 1999

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  R.E. Caramel flavor in Fuller's ESB ("Campbell, Paul R SSI-TSEA-A")
  RE:Bottle Guidelines for Contest Entry ("Donald D. Lake")
  Starter Container (Dave Hinrichs)
  Explosive O2 ("Nigel Porter")
  Hop Tea & Scorching ("Eric Sturman")
  Fullers Flavor, ESB from Ashburn malt (RCAYOT)
  O2 Hazards/Missing Mg (AJ)
  Sake rice ("Steve Blanchard")
  Question: Munich Malt : Diastatic Power ? (darrell.leavitt)
  RE: lagering idea (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Home Malting:  advanced steeping technology (Clifton Moore)
  Hops Cleanliness and Martha Stewart (Bob)
  Details - variac, Mg, silica/carbon ("Sean Richens")
  Hey!  I scored 16 Sami's! ("Brian Dixon")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:24:48 +0200 From: "Campbell, Paul R SSI-TSEA-A" <Paul.R.Campbell at is.shell.com> Subject: R.E. Caramel flavor in Fuller's ESB Oh I guess I can't resist this one.... I've played around with my FESB recipe now for far too long. I still maintain that you want to use as close to the brewery ingredients as possible so pale malt, flaked maize and british crystal malt would form the grain bill (90%,7%,3% as discussed here just prior to the big bang). I left the discussion looking into the caramel addition which Fuller's also disclosed in the Real Ale Almanac, but there was some speculation that this would purely affect colour rather than alter the flavour profile. I'm not convinced. I do know of one brewer who was cloning a mild in which he perceived a caramel flavour. His approach at emulating this was to add home made caramel along with the primings (in a keg beer). He reported good results; see UKHB842 onwards to see the posts by Graham Smith on the subject. I also found the following dotted around net-space: - ------------------------------------------------------------ Ammonia Caramel EC No. E150c Positively charged, in powder and liquid form. Suitable for beer, petfoods and general food use. - ------------------------------------------------------------ Porterine " the addition of Porterine. This dark syrupy liquid was composed of extract, dextrose, and other nonfermentables and had a color rating of 940 L (10). Brewers added Porterine to the pilsner wort not only for color adjustment, but also to approximate the qualities of porter that otherwise required the use of various other malts not often found at a brewery geared toward American pilsner production. To have maintained stocks of those malts would have been too expensive. Porterine gave these breweries the opportunity to keep costs down and yet cater to the popular demand for porter." Note that the above isn't directly related to caramel, but I feel that it is a related subject i.e. brewery use of combined flavour and colour additives..... - ------------------------------------------------------------ D.D. Williamson Caramel Coloring CARAMEL COLOR NO. 300 CLASS III This product is typically used in the brewing industry because of its guaranteed stability in beers. It has, however, found applications in several segments of the food industry. SPECIFICATIONS COLOR INTENSITY 80 - 90 (1) COLOR SRM 9,400 - 10,500 (2) SPECIFIC GRAVITY at 60F (15.56C) 1.365 - 1.375 BAUME at 60F (15.56C) 38.8 - 39.6 WT. PER GALLON, LBS. at 60F (15.56C) 11.37 - 11.45 pH, AS IS 4.2 - 4.8 VISCOSITY, cps at 68F (20C) MAX. 15,000 COLLOIDAL CHARGE POSITIVE SULFITE LEVEL, PPM <25 BEER CLARITY BRILLIANT (1) FOOD CHEMICALS CODEX METHOD - ABSORBANCE OF 0.1% W/V SOLUTION at 610 NM THROUGH A 1 CM SQUARE CELL ON BECKMAN DBG SPECTROPHOTOMETER X 1000. (2) ASBC METHOD. Packed in bulk totes, 55 gallon plastic drums, 5 gallon pails and 4 X 1 gallon case packs. Produced in accordance with 21CFR73.85. - ------------------------------------------------------------ As I'm *still* in the process of buying a new house I have not tried to use any of this information for my own batches of ESB. Usual disclaimers apply; haven't tried it; Don't guarantee it etc. I would suggest making up different batches of caramel in differing colour intensities and trying these out on bottles of your favourite ESB recipe (added along with the primings). Note that the bottled Fuller's ESB has a higher abv than the keg beer. The higher carbonation (2.5 volumes?) of the bottled variety also has an impact on the dry hopping aroma. Regards, Paul Campbell Aberdeen Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:11:07 -0400 From: "Donald D. Lake" <dake at gdi.net> Subject: RE:Bottle Guidelines for Contest Entry I've always been curious about the restrictions on bottle types at competition. Can anyone give me a legitimate or logical reason on why Grolsh-type bottles are not allowed? Don Lake dlake at amuni.com Lake Water Brewery (wholly-owned subsidiary of Canal Water Beverages Incorporated) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:07:39 -0500 From: Dave Hinrichs <dhinrichs at quannon.com> Subject: Starter Container With all the chatter recently about stirrers it has raised and interest in me (damn brewing has made me a gadget freak). Anyways my questions concerns the bottom shape of the starter container. Currently I use a 1 gallon cider jug (glass) for my starters. The bottom is concave is this a concern for use with a stirrer. If is I am thinking the pump and filter method my be a better route unless I can find a suitable container. Thanks so much *************************************************************** * Dave Hinrichs E-Mail: dhinrichs at quannon.com * * Quannon CAD Systems, Inc. Voice: (612) 935-3367 * * 6101 Baker Road, Suite 204 FAX: (612) 935-0409 * * Minnetonka, MN 55345 * * http://www.quannon.com/ * Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:07:14 +0100 From: "Nigel Porter" <nigel at sparger.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Explosive O2 >" A problem I see with O2 addition via Oxygenator, is that this is >quite explosive and most people don't realize that potential. Maybe >most brewers don't smoke - I hope so. >John" The main thing to remember is not to use grease or oil on any of the regulators or pipework you use with O2. O2 can cause sponstanious combustion in contact with these. Apart from usual safety measures to be considered when using presure vessels, O2 is pretty much harmless. Nigel Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:34:25 PDT From: "Eric Sturman" <ejstur at hotmail.com> Subject: Hop Tea & Scorching Hello everyone, I brew on an electric stove and am concerned about scorching lighter colored beers. There have been questions posted about "hop tea" and I don't recall ever seeing any responses. I would assume this to be boiling hops without malt extract until the alpha acids are extracted from the hops, then adding malt extract for a shorter boil. First, is my assumption correct? Second, what are the potential draw backs? And third, are there any other suggestions for avoiding scorching, besides large volume boiling and adequate stirring? Thanks, Eric S. ejstur at hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: 22 Oct 1999 08:45:26 -0400 From: RCAYOT at solutia.com Subject: Fullers Flavor, ESB from Ashburn malt William Frazier discusses the flavor of Fullers ESB recently, and offers up some recipies: "After eight attempts the 5 gallon recipe settled in as shown below; Maris Otter 45.6% Munich Malt 45.6% Cara Vienne 4.1% Cara Munich 4.1% Roasted Barley 0.5% (use enough grain to give an OG of 1050 to 1060)" I would like to add that there is no way I can possibly concieve of a beer made with ~50% munich malt tasting ANYTHING like Fullers! Munich is way too malty! I would say that the beer described above would be very good, delicious, etc, but not anything like a Fullers. Fullers, when I get it around these parts (Pensacola Florida) is good, but has less malt than what I immagine from this recipie. (more like a Bock malt profile!) By the way, I am nearly ready to keg my ESB form 100% Ashburn malt from Briesse: Grain:100% Ashburn Malt OG: 1.055 Yeast: Wyeast American Ale #2 Hops: Cascades, Styrian Goldings 1st wort hopping, Cascades, Hallertau finish. 40-45 IBU (depends if you take hop form into consideration) Very nice fermentation1 Wyeast American Ale#2 is a very robust yeast throwing up a large crop of yeast on top! It is not very attenuating, but so far has lent a fair amount of fruitiness. right now, the beer is in the secondary, and I am debating on what to do: 1. dry hop or not? There seems to be a good hop flavor from both 1st wort hopping and finish hops, but the fresh AROMA is not as prominent, and besides, didn't I want to highlight the MALT characteristic? Hmmmmmmm 2. Make some REAL ALE, I kept 1/2g of wort aside to prime with, I could transfer to another carboy, add the 1/2g, add some fresh yeast, wait till it starts to take off, and then keg it, keep the keg at fermentation temperatures, and monitor the pressure. Vois'la real ale! Hmmmmmm 3. Just keg the sucker, force carbonate it and drink it up! Hmmmmmm. I'll let you know what I do, and how the beer comes out! Roger Ayotte Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:36:00 -0500 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: O2 Hazards/Missing Mg While discussing the hazards of compressed O2 I think it well to mention that compressed oxygen carries with it all the hazards associated with any compressed gas of which the greatest is probably that the cylinder will be improperly secured (it should be chained to the wall) so that it can fall over with the potential to snap off some part of the regulator assembly. It then becomes a rocket which can do substantial damage to people and property. Oxygen carries its own especial risks in that it is a powerful oxidizer. One must be particularly careful to prevent it from coming into contact with oils, solvents etc. which can spontaneously combust (is that a verb?). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * John Schnupp posts Calcium hardness 45 mg/L as CaCO3 Total hardness 61 mg/L as CaCO3 and asks why magnesium isn't reported. The info is there as total hardness is the sum of calcium hardness and magnesium hardness. Officially, other things which react in simple hardness tests such as strontium and iron do not count in calculating hardness thus if your water authority uses the usual EDTA based tests this simple relationship may lead to small inaccuracies. If the lab uses AAS or a similar selective technique then Mg calculated from this relarionship will be accurate because the lab will have measured Mg and Ca, converted the values to hardness, added them and reported this as the total. Anyway, your Mg hardness is 61 - 45 = 16 ppm as CaCO3. This is equivalent to 3.9 Mg/L magnesium ion (and the 45 ppm as CaCO3 is equivalent to 18 mg/L calcium ion). John also writes >The water reports are >free and I don't feel like sending a sample out and paying >for additional testing. I don't think I have converted a single brewer with the following prosytalization but I keep trying: For what I'd charge for a water test (about $30) you can buy very nice little kits that will allow you to test for total and calcium hardness (from which you obtain magnesium hardness as above). The kits typically do 50 - 100 tests. Finally, John mentions that the "help information" says Mg is best kept at 10 - 30 ppm. There are lots of beers which have magnesium at levels much higher than this with which there is good news and bad news. The good news is that elvevated levels of Magnesium in drinking water has been associated with reduced risk of cardiovascular disease. The bad news is that it can give you the trots. It also imparts a sour/bitter quality at high levles. The level in this water is not problematical with respect to brewing or dunny trips nor will it probably grant you extended longevity. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:54:54 PDT From: "Steve Blanchard" <steve_blanchard at hotmail.com> Subject: Sake rice Dave Burley made reference to the type of rice used for sake: <Use ? Rose ( ??) rice as it is a <high quality short grain rice grown <here in the US and close to the actual <rice used in sake manufacturer, just <not so highly polished. I believe it is <the rice used by US sake manufacturers <after they polish it to their specifications. I believe he was referring to "Calrose" rice which is also a great tasting rice for eating as well as "drinking". ______________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:06:43 -0500 (EST) From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu Subject: Question: Munich Malt : Diastatic Power ? Date sent: 22-OCT-1999 14:03:46 I mashed in this afternoon, and forgot that I was out of 2 row...so I brewed a stout using Fawcett's Munich (8 lb) as the base...along with 1 lb malted oats, 1 lb Roasted Barley, 1 lb Special B, 1/4 lb Black Patent. My question is whether the Munich can convert the others? ..Darrell <Terminally INtermediate Home-Brewer> _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/Darrell Leavitt _/ _/INternet: leavitdg at splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu _/ _/AMpr.net: n2ixl at amgate.net.plattsburgh.edu _/ _/AX25 : n2ixl at kd2aj.#nny.ny.usa _/ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:01:23 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: lagering idea >I thought I could recircultate the >water, using a pump of some sort, through a length of copper tubing >occupying the freezer of my brew fridge. So, the bath water would leave >the container via a pump, travel to the freezer, go through about 10 feet >of copper tubing, and return to the main bath. >Would this be feasible? Has anyone tried anything like this? If >so,please respond. Yes, you could use a submersible aquarium pump (about $25) to circulate. Place the pump in the water with the carboy, and use two tubing runs to and from the fridge. You may need a small fan to blow over the coil in the fridge to get adequate temperature transfer. Instead, could try placing the coil into a small bucket of water (or oil) in the fridge (this will give more surface area and should facillitate the heat transfer. I would try a finned automotive heater core, or air conditioner core, and probably would not need the fan in the fridge. You can also use a thermostat to power the pump on/off and controll the temperature. In the winter, you can also heat the fermenter, if desired, by just circulating with the pump in the fermenter water bath. The pump produces enough heat to warm up the water. You may need some antfreeze in the water, by the way. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:19:10 -0800 From: Clifton Moore <cmoore at gi.alaska.edu> Subject: Home Malting: advanced steeping technology It has come to my attention that there is a buzz in the malting industry concerning the use of inoculates in the steep water. In much the same way as a healthy yeast pitch has a competitive advantage over undesirable microbes in the wort, I can easily imagine the advantages of having 'helper bugs' in the malting process. Suppression of contaminant blooms and consumption of organic waste byproducts come to mind as two beneficial prospects of such a technology. So dear readers, what is the state of the art here? Are any of you able to provide references, first hand knowledge, or wild ass speculation on just who these 'helpers' might be? As always, Clifton Moore Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:39:25 -0700 From: Bob <bob at urbanartifacts.com> Subject: Hops Cleanliness and Martha Stewart Friends of the Brew... Thanks to whomever advised us about the Martha Stewart show- this week on Hops. Being a confirmed HopHead, and lover of that floral/citrusy profile of Cascades, I was pleased when I heard she would be visiting a Cascades growing farm. The images were wonderful and the hops looked great. The interview was nice and all was well, except it left me with a question or two. It seems as if the hops grower mechanically strips the cones off the vine (bines?) and then dries them overnight in a heated environment, then bales them up in a huge bale- (hop sack?), then off to the brewer, or the processor for packaging... but my question is- are they ever cleaned- and if not- does this imply that those of us who like to dry hop are possibly getting some random but perhaps deletrious dried insects? what about chemical fertilizers or insecticides? any srange but useful chemicals used there? What about bird droppings, or mites, or small furry animals, or fruit flies- remember fruit flies, or Japanese Beetles, or whatever? Any one care to venture an opinion of the purity of the product we throw into our otherwise pure fermenting beer? Bob in Texas. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:08:57 -0500 From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> Subject: Details - variac, Mg, silica/carbon Hmm... lots of little things I know just a little about: The variac used to control an electric motor has to be rated "for inductive loads" . It also has to be the right kind of motor but that's more elekatricity than I've ever digested. I'm too lazy to do the math on John E Schnupp's water, but I can see that the Mg content will be less than 20 ppm (total hardness - Ca hardness). If I had the energy I'd work out the bicarbonate, but I'd be surprised if your pH is higher than 7.5. Large breweries worry about their malt getting "slack" i.e. absorbing moisture but half the damage is that their volumes are large enough it messes up their heat balance calculations. The best thing to do is to find a suitable measuring container and determine the volume of 1 lb. of malt (when you've just bought it). Remember that malt is traditionally measured in bushels, so you're not doing anything wrong by reading recipes as "lbs dry basis malt". Living in New Hampshire, you won't have trouble if you buy malt at the beginning of the winter and use it up in a season! "Lagering Idea" will have to wait. I want to do something similar - using a pumped glycol loop to use the big refrigerator with the blue roof and the light that goes out around 6:00 pm during brewing season. My sweetie is most tolerant of my using the front room as a walk-in lagering fridge but it would be nice to be able to close the window in January. I'll take this as a shove to doing the math and post my results if and when I figure it out. TTFN brewers and brewsters! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:22:06 -0700 From: "Brian Dixon" <briandixon at home.com> Subject: Hey! I scored 16 Sami's! I thought the stuff was gone ... until the local grocery store found a hidden case under other beer in his walk-in cooler. It's the original Samichlaus Brown (1997). I got the last 16 ... too bad only 15 are left! Brian Return to table of contents
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