---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Hunter Thermostat & Mag. Stirrer ("Keith Christian")
  Dissolved N2 (Montgomery John B DLPC)
  RE: Starter Container ("Mercer, David")
  RE: Starter Container (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Re: Bottle Guidelines for Contest Entry (Spencer W Thomas)
  Cider? ("Bill Rehm")
  RE: lagering idea ("Pickles,Greg")
  RE: Lagering Idea (Wade Hutchison)
  More AHA/AOB stupid tricks (jliddil)
  Stove top beer (Lance Levsen)
  Samichlaus is coming to town! (Thomas Hamann)
  1999 Dixie Cup Results (David Cato)
  Dry hopping: Different quantities with pellet v. whole? ("John S Thompson")
  Dry yeast storage ("John S Thompson")
  Agar Plates (Ronald Babcock)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* The HBD now hosts eight digests related to this and a few other hobbies.
* Send an email note to majordomo at hbd.org with the word "lists" on one 
* line, and "help" on another (don't need the quotes) for a listing and
* instructions for use.


Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. 
**SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
  the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!

Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow"

Back issues are available via:

  HTML from...
        http://hbd.org
  Anonymous ftp from...
	ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests
	ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
  AFS users can find it under...
        /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer

COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org 
  (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be 
  reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless 
  EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests
  CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution
  unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer.
COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the
  author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and
  reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the 
  author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in
  any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally
  appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the
  above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a
  commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their
  newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are
  attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...)

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 06:38:10 -0700
From: "Keith Christian" <kchris1 at lausd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Hunter Thermostat & Mag. Stirrer

				Hi all,

I am having trouble setting my Hunter thermostat.  I 
use it mostly for ales at 65F, but now I want to 
drop the temp to 50-55 for a lager.  Every time I 
reset the temp, it reverts back to 65F.  Perhaps this 
is a sign from the gods not to brew the lager, or I 
am missing something ;-).  I have even tried taking 
out the battery out so there is no memory and still 
no luck!


I would really like to make a mag. stirrer.  Can I 
make one with a computer fan and a dimmer 
switch?  How do you know if a dimmer will work 
fine or damage a spinning device? 

TIA


Keith Christian
Chatsworth CA
{ HYPERLINK mailto:kchris1 at lausd.k12.ca.us }kchris1 at lausd.k12.ca.us



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:29:21 -0500
From: Montgomery John B DLPC <MontgomeryJB at ncsc.navy.mil>
Subject: Dissolved N2


My stout tastes fine, but is visually boring. Can anyone recommended sources
of info for N2 carbonating? Thanks.



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:20:10 -0700
From: "Mercer, David" <dmercer at path.org>
Subject: RE: Starter Container

Dave, you are correct. A magnetic stirrer won't work if you are using a
cider jug with a concave bottom. I use 2L Erlenmeyer flasks. Besides
compatibility with a stirrer, another advantage to lab flasks, at least
Pyrex ones, is that you can boil the starter wort and pitch the yeast in the
same vessel, which virtually assures you are pitching into sterile wort. The
down side is they are expensive. A 2L flask costs about $15. Four liter
flasks, at least in the catalogs I have, cost over $50. (The main reason why
I've never bothered to buy one.)


	Dave Hinrichs wrote:

	With all the chatter recently about stirrers it has raised and
interest in
	me (damn brewing has made me a gadget freak). Anyways my questions
concerns
	the bottom shape of the starter container. Currently I use a 1
gallon cider
	jug (glass) for my starters. The bottom is concave is this a concern
for
	use with a stirrer. If is I am thinking the pump and filter method
my be a
	better route unless I can find a suitable container.

Dave in Seattle.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:50:50 -0500
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Starter Container

>The bottom is concave is this a concern for
>use with a stirrer. If is I am thinking the pump and filter method my be a
>better route unless I can find a suitable container.

Yes, I think it would be a problem, the magnet would wiggle wildly all over
the place, loose coupling and get stuck in some dead zone.  You could just
buy an Erlenmeyer flask, but if you just cannot, you might try a coffee pot,
he squat fat kind you see in doughnut shops, etc.  It has a flat bottom, a
nice plastic high temperature handle, and is made of pyrex (could this be a
poor man's flask?).

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:14:53 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Bottle Guidelines for Contest Entry 

>>>>> "Donald" == Donald D Lake <dake at gdi.net> writes:

    Donald> I've always been curious about the restrictions on bottle
    Donald> types at competition.  Can anyone give me a legitimate or
    Donald> logical reason on why Grolsh-type bottles are not allowed?

Because they don't fit easily into standard 24-bottle cases.  When
you're dealing with hundreds (or for some large comps over 1000)
bottles, having a uniform bottle size can tremendously simplify
handling them.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:23:37 PDT
From: "Bill Rehm" <lwrehm at hotmail.com>
Subject: Cider?

I'm thinking of making some hard cider but I don't know where to start.  I 
have seen some recipes but I'd like more ideas.  Anyone out there have a 
good cider recipe?

thanks
BR

______________________________________________________


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:17:17 -0500
From: "Pickles,Greg" <Picklegr at ams.iix.com>
Subject: RE: lagering idea

>I thought I could recircultate the
>water, using a pump of some sort, through a length of copper tubing
>occupying the freezer of my brew fridge. So, the bath water would leave
>the container via a pump, travel to the freezer, go through about 10 feet
>of copper tubing, and return to the main bath. 
>Would this be feasible? Has anyone tried anything like this? If
>so,please respond.

This is very similar to a portable keg cooler that I built for use on an
annual fishing trip with the guys. I placed two corneys in an ice chest and
filled it with water up to about an inch from the top. I placed a small
submersible pump (the smallest I could find at the local hardware and garden
center - they sell them for fountains) in the chest and connected it via
plastic tubing to a coil of 3/8 inch copper tubing. I just bought a 25 foot
coil and left it coiled the way it came. I placed the coil in a second small
ice chest (one of those over the shoulder types) with a half gallon plastic
milk jug of frozen water and fill the chest with water to cover the coil. I
carved a foam plastic lid for the small chest with a notch for the tubes to
exit from a chunk of 2 inch foam insulation.

I use a Johnson Controls fridge controller to cycle the pump to maintain the
desired temperature. I just put the temp probe right in the water with the
kegs. Yeah, I know it's not supposed to be submersible but I only use it
this way for a few days a year. Its been several years now with no problems
 - if I were building a lagering system I would either coat the probe with
something to protect it or buy a controller with a submersible probe.

Since it is a temporary setup I just throw an old sleeping bag over the top
to help insulate the system a bit better. Sometimes I start off with a block
of ice instead of the jug since it tends to make better thermal contact with
the coil and gets the whole system down to temp quicker - You do have to be
careful about overflows, though. Once the system is at the desired
temperature (usually 50 - 54 degrees F for serving), it holds very nicely on
two jugs of ice a day at about 12 hour intervals. I just cycle the jugs
between the cooler and the freezer.

A system like this for lagering would avoid any fridge/freezer modifications
as well as concerns about the coolant water freezing in the tube when it is
not being circulated. It's really not hard to maintain but it does take a
little discipline to change the ice jugs regularly.



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:51:51 -0400
From: Wade Hutchison <whutchis at bucknell.edu>
Subject: RE: Lagering Idea

The question of whether you could put a cooling coil in your freezer
and circulate cooling water to cool beer for lagering came up over the
weekend.  After checking some numbers, here's some guestimations on
what kind of cooling action you'll get.
Assuming your freezer is at 0 deg F, and you stick a 25 foot coil of
copper tubing (3/8" O.D) in there, and you circulate the water at 2
gallons/minute (easily achievable by a small submersible pump), I get
a temperature drop of (15 minutes of calculations later...) 1/2 a degree F.
Whoops!  The heat transfer coefficient between the air (even forced air)
and the tube is so poor that there is hardly any heat transferred from
the freezer to the water in the tube.  Looking at the coeffients for water,
if you had the coil immersed in (liquid) water at 32 deg F, you could
easily drop the temperature from about 60 F down to 32 with a 25 foot
length of tubing.  Heat transfer from air is almost 300 _times_ slower
than transfer from water.  Hope this helps,
         -----wade hutchison

At 12:14 AM 10/23/1999 , you wrote:
>Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:01:23 -0500
>From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
>Subject: RE: lagering idea
>
> >I thought I could recircultate the
> >water, using a pump of some sort, through a length of copper tubing
> >occupying the freezer of my brew fridge.  So, the bath water would leave
> >the container via a pump, travel to the freezer, go through about 10 feet
> >of copper tubing, and return to the main bath.
> >Would this be feasible?  Has anyone tried anything like this?  If
> >so,please respond.
><snip>
>You may need a small fan to blow over the coil in the fridge to get adequate
>temperature transfer.  Instead, could try placing the coil into a small
>bucket of water (or oil) in the fridge (this will give more surface area and
>should facillitate the heat transfer.

Well, putting the coil in cold water/ice will definitely increase the heat
transfer.

>I would try a finned automotive heater core, or air conditioner core, and
>probably would not need the fan in the fridge.

Either of these suggestions will increase the surface area available for
heat transfer, which will lower the temperature of the water coming out of
the freezer.  I'd use a fan in any case.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:07:07 -0700 (MST)
From: jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: More AHA/AOB stupid tricks



The AOB finally sent out a message to all who ordered the new Fix book.
The person who sent it failed to supress the cc list.  So now we get this.
Now I expect the BofA wil see to it to get on the AHA about this.  What a
slap in our faces. 
Jim Liddil



> Mr. Brown, 
>  
> I  ordered this book in the middle of September.  My credit card was
> billed in the middle of September and I was told that the book would be
> delivered in the middle of October.  Now that it's the middle of October
> you are telling me that the book won't be available until the end of
> November and shipped to me by the third week in December.  That means
> that you will have my money for 3 months without delivering a product.
> This is absolutely unacceptable and I will not tolerate it!  I expect a
> full refund on my credit card until you ship the merchandise.  If you are
> not willing to do so then I am canceling my order. 
>  
> I cc'd everyone on this mailing list in order to urge all of you to make
> the same demand.  They should not be allowed to get away with this.  They
> are earning 3 months interest without delivering our goods!  Let's get
> together on this! 
>  
> Annoyed and $24.95 poorer with nothing to show for it, 
> Rudy Kircher 
> rkircher at epix.com 
>  
> Subject: Your order for Principles of Brewing Science
> 
>  
> Thank you for your prepublication order for the second edition of
> Principles of Brewing Science by George Fix.  As a member of the American
> Homebrewers Association or the Institute for Brewing Studies, you are
> eligible for the special prepublication pricing on this title.  Normally
> $29.95 per copy (plus s/h), your order has been processed at $24.95 per
> copy and you will not be charged for shipping and handling.
> 
> Principles of Brewing Science will published by the end of November.
> Once the title is published, domestic customers can expect to receive
> their books within two to three weeks; international orders may take up
> to four to six weeks for delivery.
> 
> Once again, we thank you for your order and appreciate your continual
> support of the American Homebrewers Association and the Institute for
> Brewing Studies.
> 
> Happy brewing!
> 
>  
>  
>  
> Benjamin C. Brown
> Customer Service Representative 
> Association of Brewers          
> 736 Pearl Street
> Boulder, CO  80502 
>  
> Phone:  303-447-0816 ext. 105
> Fax:  303-447-2825
> email:  ben at aob.org 
>  



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:07:09 -0600
From: Lance Levsen <lance.l at home.com>
Subject: Stove top beer

Re: Stove top beer

> malt extract for a shorter boil.  First, is my assumption correct?  Second, 
> what are the potential draw backs?  And third, are there any other 
> suggestions for avoiding scorching, besides large volume boiling and 
> adequate stirring?

> Eric S.
>ejstur at hotmail.com

 I don't know about the hop tea, but minimizing the boil can't be 
good. The boil does a lot of stuff for your beer besides exracting 
the alpha acids. . . drives off DMS, sanitizes the wort, precipitates 
proteins . . . etc.

I used to brew on the stove and what I did was fold up a couple of 
metal hangers to sit on the element under the brew pot. It worked 
well for me. It didn't eliminate the carmelization, but it did 
minimize it.

- -- 
Lance Levsen, l.levsen at home.com
Web Development, Product Innovation
- -- 
Lance Levsen, l.levsen at home.com
Web Development, Product Innovation
477-3166 (hm), 665-3560 (wk)



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:26:37 +0900
From: Thomas Hamann <tdhamann at senet.com.au>
Subject: Samichlaus is coming to town!

Dearest best mate Brian, did anyone ever tell you that you're
THE nicest guy on the HBD, no no... the nicest guy in the whole
USA, no no... the nicest guy in the world!!!
Next time you're in my neighbourhood you could always drop in 
for a Sami or three, hey mate?
Seeya pal, you're the greatest.



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:29:59 -0500
From: David Cato <dcato at neosoft.com>
Subject: 1999 Dixie Cup Results

With 697 beers and meads, the judges at the 1999 Dixie Cup worked hard to
find the cream of the crop.  In the end, BOS honors were bestowed upon

    Mike Riddle of HOME
    for his Cold Steamy Steam Beer

and

    Tim Nagode of The High Plains Draughters
    for his Mickey Mead Traditional Mead

The Mike Templeton Award, awarded to the brewer who accumulates the most
points at the Dixie Cup, was awarded to Mike Riddle.

The Dixie Cup, awarded to the homebrew club that accumulates the most points
at the Dixie Cup, was retained by the Foam Rangers.

Gulf Coast Homebrewer of the Year, awarded to the homebrewer who accumulates
the most points at the 4 Gulf Coast competitions (Bluebonnet, Crescent City,
Sunshine Challenge, and Dixie Cup), was awarded to Russ Bee of the North Texas
Homebrewers Association.

Complete results will be posted on the Foam Rangers web site,
http://www.foamrangers.com, soon.

Entrants should expect their score sheets and any prizes by November 15.

- -- 
David Cato              1999 Dixie Cup Co-coordinator


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:54:47 -0500
From: "John S Thompson" <jthomp6 at lsu.edu>
Subject: Dry hopping: Different quantities with pellet v. whole?

Hi all.

If you want to achieve a given level of hop aroma, would you use the same
quantity of pellets and whole hops? It seems to me that a given quantity of
pellets would produce a more intense aroma because the cones have been
"crushed" a little more...does that seem reasonable?

Thanks.
John


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:56:13 -0500
From: "John S Thompson" <jthomp6 at lsu.edu>
Subject: Dry yeast storage

Hi all.

Can (should) dry yeast be stored in the freezer? I accidentally put mine in
there for a day before realizing that this may crystallize and damage the
cells. But would this occur if the cells are dry?

Thanks.
John


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:07:20 -0600
From: Ronald Babcock <rbabcock at rmi.net>
Subject: Agar Plates

Someone posted a web address for prepared agar plates for culturing yeast. 
Now this was a while back and haven't been able to come up with the right 
string in the archives. So if the poster or if someone else remembers what 
the address is I would appreciate hearing from you. I think it was from a 
testing lab and was about a $1.50 each.

TIA, Ron


Ronald Babcock - rbabcock at rmii.com - Denver, CO


Return to table of contents

---