---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: 5 liter minikegs, Scotch Ale, calories (KMacneal)
  Iodophor (Nathan Kanous)
  BTF iodophor (Demonick)
  RE: UK Homebrew Digest ("Nigel Porter")
  beer and diet ("Alan Meeker")
  Why are our posts on Deja News? ("Kelly")
  Type of Brewer (Brad Miller)
  Cask ale from a corny (Michael Josephson)
  RE: iodophor (Robert Arguello)
  The Dave Burley Diet ("Mark Nelson")
  Iodophor; Wyeast 1728 (Mike Uchima)
  The Evils of Carbs ("Jason Birzer")
  Re: 5 liter mini kegs (RobertJ)
  can I ferment lager at 45 degrees? (Adam Holmes)
  Fresh Eggs ("Jack Schmidling")
  RIMs ("Ludwig's")
  5 Liter Minikegs (Dan Listermann)


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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 07:09:16 EST
From: KMacneal at aol.com
Subject: Re: 5 liter minikegs, Scotch Ale, calories

In a message dated 12/10/1999 2:16:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
homebrew-request@hbd.org writes:

<< Has anybody had any experience with these things? I was planning on
 purchasing some, but there seem to be problems with leaking taps and warping
 of the kegs. >>

Go back through the HBD archives.  There is a lot of information there and 
some is fairly recent (within the past few months).  Short story, I use them 
and like them.

In a message dated 12/10/1999 2:16:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, Russ Hobaugh 
writes:

<<Also wanted to thank everyone for there comments on the scotch ale
question I posted on.  The overwhelming consensus was to use NO
peated malt, just pale(97%) and malted barley(3%) with a long boil
and wyeast 1728 to bring out the smokiness.>>

I've used a Scotch malt instead of pale in my recipes.  It's slightly darker 
than English Pale.  William's Brewing in CA & Strange Brew in MA carry it.  I 
wouldn't totally dismiss the idea of using peated malt in a scotch ale.  It 
may not be true to style, but it does turn out a nice beer if you're into 
smoky beer.  I've also used the peated malt in a porter.

In a message dated 12/10/1999 2:16:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, Dave Burley 
writes:
<<Carbs are non-fattening, but they do make
you get fat, as thirty or more years of low
carbohydrate diets ( Adkins, Power Protein,
etc.) have pointed out. Here's my analysis
of how beer affects your waistline based on
these principles. The beer belly and the idea
that spaghetti was fattening (from my youth
but not by today's beliefs) are, in fact, reality
and both for the same reason.>>

Calories are calories whether they come from fat, protein, or carbohydrate.  
If you eat more calories than your body can metabolize, your body will store 
them as fat.



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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 08:00:14 -0600
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Iodophor

Hi Russ,
I generally use 1/2 ounce in 5 gallons (U.S.) for 12.5 ppm.  I let 
everything soak in this for at least 15 minutes.  I Fix's AoBT, he mentions 
a specific time for sanitizing agents (I can't remember the technical term) 
but similar to radioactive decay and drug pharmacokinetics you can 
mathematically predict when you've eliminated enough bugs and Fix 
recommends 15 min as a minimum contact time with this dilution.  I also use 
this rinse-free.  Hope this helps.


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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 07:33:14 -0800
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: BTF iodophor


As long as the solution is amber it still works.  Plastic will absorb
the color - this includes buckets and hoses.  Hoses if soaked for long
periods (hours) will get "slimey".  With time this "slimey" will
disappear.  In an open plastic bucket the solution will last for 2-3
days.  Use cold water to mix solution.  Hot water will cause the
iodine to evaporate quickly.

Iodophor is a NO RINSE sanitizer.  That's one of the joys of iodophor.  
Keep an open bucket with a few gallons in it around during brewing
sessions.  Throw all the odds and ends in.  For utensils and such,
soak, shake off excess, use implement, return to sanitizer.  For
carboys, fill with solution (add iodophor, then fill with COLD water),
then let stand as long as you want, minutes to years.  Empty carboy,
let drip dry for about a minute, then use.

1/4 ounce in 2.5 gallons is 12.5 ppm.  Contact time is 2 minutes at
this strength.  Arithmetic will yield the amounts for any volume.  
Here's a useful conversion 1/10th ounce = 3 ml.

Here's more useful conversions:

1 Dash 		1/32 ounce	0.9 ml
1 Teaspoon	1/8 ounce	3.7 ml
1 Tablespoon	3/8 ounce	11.1 ml
1 Pony		1.0 ounce	29.5 ml
1 Jigger	1.5 ounce	44.5 ml
1 Wineglass	4.0 ounce	119 ml
1 Split 	6.0 ounce	177 ml
1 Cup		8.0 ounce	257 ml

Cheers!

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax orders
demonick at zgi dot com

FREE SAMPLES! Enough for three 5 gallon batches. Fax, phone, or email:
name, shipping address (no P.O.B.) and phone number. (I won't call - 
it's for UPS in case of delivery problems). Sorry, lower 48 only.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:00:18 -0000
From: "Nigel Porter" <nigel at sparger.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: RE: UK Homebrew Digest

The UK Homebrew Digest is alive and well. To subscribe in digest 
form send mail to:

list at ale.co.uk

In main body of message type:

digest uk-homebrew

This should subscribe you to the digest vesion of the list. Alternativly 
visit http://www.breworld.com/homebrew/  and enter your e-mail 
address in the box that asks for subscriptions to UK Homebrew list.

The breworld (http://www.breworld.com) site is also worth a visit for 
a browse on brewing and beer related things.

Nigel


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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:04:20 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: beer and diet

Dave Burley posted a lengthy message yesterday on beer and various dietary
concepts. Unfortunately, much of this information was either misleading or
downright wrong. It would take far too much space (especially since much of
it is off-topic) and time to respond to all these inaccuracies so I won't
clog the digest by doing so. Much of this was hashed out earlier on the
digest and anyone who's really interested in the details can check them out
by searching the archives.

As far as beer goes, most of the calories are actually coming from the
ETHANOL not from residual carbohydrates (except for some of the sweeter
styles). Ethanol has more calories than either protein or carbohydrates,
almost as many as fat.

In general, the main factor in weight gain/loss is the balance between total
calories eaten versus total calories burned.

 -Alan Meeker
 Baltimore, MD




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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:15:26 -0600
From: "Kelly" <kgrigg at diamonddata.com>
Subject: Why are our posts on Deja News?

x-no-archive=yes

I was just on DejaNews doing a search on myself to find some old posts I
needed to reference.  Much to my suprise...MANY of my posts to this mail
list was listed as being posted to rec.crafts.brewing!!!!!!!!!  Why is this
being posted to a USENET group?  I never saw a notification of this....

Kelly


A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention,
With the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.



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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 08:31:15 -0800
From: Brad Miller <millerb at targen.com>
Subject: Type of Brewer

	I think that I would fall into the "Alcoholic Brewer" range.  I
brew about 1.5 times a week and between my roomates, "friends" and I this
almost covers it.  Sometimes we do run out though.  Then the "friends"
don't come around as much until the kegs are full again.


Brad

"Beer, it's what's for dinner."



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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 08:48:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Josephson <blackcatbrewing at yahoo.com>
Subject: Cask ale from a corny

I'm about ready to take the logical next step in my
pursuit of the perfect ale: serving it from a cask.
The "cask" in this case will be a 5 gallon corny keg.
I have a rather promising ESB in the carboy and will
acquire the kegging setup this weekend. I can hardly
wait. 

My plan, at the moment, is to rig up something that
will hold the keg on its side, with the base elevated
slightly. Then serve via gravity dispense, with just
enough CO2 (how much?) to keep the oxygen out of the
beer (I know that CAMRA would disapprove, but I'm not
going to drink 5 gallons in a couple of days, no
matter how pleasant the thought, or the beer, may be).

So, all of you real ale fans out there who are serving
their ales from the "cask," Any tips or tricks you'd
like to pass along? Any gotchas I should be aware of?
Respond privately or to the digest as you see fit.
I'll post a summary of any private responses.

Cheers,
Michael Josephson
Black Cat Brewing
Minneapolis, MN
St Paul Homebrewers Club:
http://www.users.uswest.net/~gdhipple/SPHBC/SPHBC.html
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.


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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:26:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com>
Subject: RE: iodophor

On Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:45:16 -0500
"Russ Hobaugh" asked the following about Iodophor:

= I recently purchased a bottle of BTF Iodophor from my
= homebrew shop.  The only directions on the bottle state to use
= 1/4 oz(1capful) for 2.5 gallons.  Anyone know what strength
= this would be?  I was told to use either 12.5 ppm or 25 ppm,
= but how long of a soak in each dilution?  Also, how much
= would I use just to mix up a gallon at a time.  And finally, how long
= does this last.  I have only used One-step up until now, but found
= that was not economical to use, and had no shelf life once mixed.



One capful into 2.5 gallons makes a solution containing 12.5 ppm of
titratable iodine.

To make one gallon of working solution at 12.5 ppm add 3.75 ml, (a teaspoon
is 5 ml)

Recommended "contact time" is 60 seconds.

The working solution will "last" about 24 hours.. depends on many factors

I recently wrote an article on iodophor and interviewed the General Manager
of BTF Iodophor
as part of my research. You can see the article at:

http://www.calweb.com/~robertac/iodophor.htm

Robert Arguello
robertac at calweb.com


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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:27:28 -0500
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: The Dave Burley Diet

In an otherwise well-written message, Dave Burley says:

>"Carbing up" before a long race is why
>an American hasn't won a marathon in decades
>and "hits the wall" when the glycogen (small
>amount of stored carbs in the liver) runs out.
>If the body is in a fat burning mode, through
>utilization of a low carb diet,  there is
>ample body fat to carry a runner through a
>marathon, even if he is skinny.

Among other things in Dav'e message (eg, the "fact" that the body needs
loads of protein to prevent sagging faces) this is pure hogwash, with a
little bull malarkey thrown in.  The reason why an American hasn't won a
major marathon in the '90s has nothing to do with the high-carbohydrate diet
that elite athletes the world over eat.  We're just slower.  When we lose
marathons, we don't hit the wall.  We just don't finish as fast as the
average Kenyan.  Dave's "logic" is of the "If A happens in America, and B
happens in America, then A must be caused by B" type.  This type of logic is
what sets up myths for later de-bunking.  It's purely fault-ridden.

Also, if "the body is in a fat burning mode" there is absolutely no way to
sprint past those pesky Kenyans and win major marathons.  The body is much
more efficient at burning carbs than burning fat.  And, in fact, burns carbs
first when highly aerobic activity is involved.  That's why those 5 minute a
mile marathoners are sucking down Gatorade rather than raw eggs and
hamburger meat during their 2 hour marathons.  Btw, hitting the wall has
*something* to do with your body starting to burn fat, but more to do with
electrolyte imbalances due to sweating out sodium and other minerals.

Lastly, glycogen might well be stored in the liver, but is also stored
locally in muscle tissue.

- ---

Mark "In My Mind I'm Kenyan" Nelson
Atlanta GA


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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:14:55 -0600 (CST)
From: Mike Uchima <uchima at enteract.com>
Subject: Iodophor; Wyeast 1728

Russ Hobaugh asks about Iodophor:
 
> I recently purchased a bottle of BTF Iodophor from my
> homebrew shop.  The only directions on the bottle state to use
> 1/4 oz(1capful) for 2.5 gallons.  Anyone know what strength
> this would be?  

I believe 1/4 oz in 2.5 gallons is 12.5 ppm iodine.

> I was told to use either 12.5 ppm or 25 ppm,
> but how long of a soak in each dilution?  

I don't time the soak; I just throw all my stuff into a bucket of Iodophor
when I start, and leave it soaking until I need it.  Except for carboys,
which I rinse out with Iodophor solution, invert, and allow to drip-dry.

> Also, how much
> would I use just to mix up a gallon at a time.  

Just scale accordingly... should be 2/5 capful for 12.5 ppm (just eyeball
it). 

> And finally, how long
> does this last.  I have only used One-step up until now, but found
> that was not economical to use, and had no shelf life once mixed.

The iodine seems to evaporate after a day or two.  Keeping it tightly
covered should prolong the shelf life.

 ...and, regarding Scotch Ale recipes:
 
> The overwhelming consensus was to use NO
> peated malt, just pale(97%) and malted barley(3%) with a long boil
> and wyeast 1728 to bring out the smokiness.

Is it just me, or are there others who have *never* gotten a smoky
character from 1728?  If this yeast is in fact capable of producing a
smoky character, it must be at temperatures I don't normally ferment at. 
(I typically ferment ales in the mid- to high-60s.) 

- --
== Mike Uchima == uchima at pobox.com ==



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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:57:30 -0500
From: "Jason Birzer" <longshot at pressroom.com>
Subject: The Evils of Carbs

>From Dave Burley's rather long message:

"Carbing up" before a long race is why
an American hasn't won a marathon in decades
and "hits the wall" when the glycogen (small 
amount of stored carbs in the liver) runs out.
If the body is in a fat burning mode, through
utilization of a low carb diet,  there is 
ample body fat to carry a runner through a 
marathon, even if he is skinny.

That's a wild, speculative statement.  I think it has more to do with 
genetics and numbers than that.  Isn't is harder to burn fat anyways? 
I do agree that "carbing up" is overrated, but that is well 
established.  Also, the suppliments I take during a race have carbs in 
them, and they seem to help.

You go on about "Avoid this, eat that".  That always bugs me.  I'm a 
believer in moderation and eating too much of anything isn't healthy.
I hate the demonizing of food.  It does more harm than good.  Knowing 
what goes into your body and knowing how to eat properly is a skill 
that isn't taught much in this country.  Too many people look 
for "silver bullets" for good health.  It's fairly simple.  Have a well
rounded diet and regular excersise.  This hasn't changed.  Your health 
reasons for diabetes might be true, but that doesn't apply to me.  (No 
family history of it.)

Now before I get further off topic, beer can be fattening due to 
carbs.  If you take too much, the body needs some place to store it.  
Of course, too much of anything is a bad thing.  Someone mentioned 
calories, but that is true of any soda you drink as well.

I just have my one a night and that's usually it.

Jason Birzer


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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:28:26 -0500
From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com>
Subject: Re: 5 liter mini kegs

Antonio-Sven wrote: 

Has anybody had any experience with these things? I was planning on
purchasing some, but there seem to be problems with leaking taps and warping
of the kegs.

IMO Corny kegs and CO-2 tank are much better but are more expensive and
will require a lot more room in the fridge. 

When using 5 ltr kegs you should be aware of a few things: 

1. Fill level is critical for a consistent carbonation. 
2. Over carbonating will cause kegs to bulge.
3. Seals sometimes  leak - a little glycerine on the rubber helps to
prevent this.
4. Sanitization requires a bit of care espescially drying. 5. They have a
limited life.

Being aware of the above and taking some care should allow you to get good
use from 5 ltr kegs




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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:19:52 -0700 (MST)
From: Adam Holmes <aaholmes at lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Subject: can I ferment lager at 45 degrees? 

I want to make a lager but my brother's fridge is in his cold garage.  
The highest temperature it can maintain is 45 degrees F.  I would use 
WyEast Bohemian Lager (#2124).  I've used this yeast with good results 
at 55 degrees.  I'll be brewing with him over the holidays.  We don't 
have time/energy to make a heating apparatus to get the fridge temp up.  
Thus, my only question is:    Can I ferment a decent lager at 45 degrees? 

Thanks,

P.S. I downloaded the All Advantage view bar to my computer at work.  It =
is not too annoying and I am contributing money to the HBD every minute =
I am surfing the net.

Adam Holmes
Cell and Molecular Biology
Colorado State University
aaholmes at lamar.colostate.edu


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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:44:12 -0600
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Fresh Eggs

I enjoyed the scientific dissertation on hard boiled eggs.  Unfortunately, it
was all for naught because, as someone we all know and love  once said, "it
depends on what your definition of the word is, is.  In this case is, is the
word fresh.

Prior to discovering the dehydrator trick, I had found that if fresh eggs were
kept in the fridge for 30 days, the peelability is about 7 on the 1-10 scale.
For 100% pealability, it took about 3 months.

As I am starting with and defining as "fresh", eggs that are still warm from the
hen, this information says more about how fresh store eggs are than about the
process for cooking them.

Bottom line is, if you have no trouble peeling "Fresh Grade A Eggs", they have
probably not been "warm" for several months, at the minimum.

js

PHOTO OF THE WEEK  http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm
HOME: Beer, Cheese, Astronomy, Videos  http://user.mc.net/arf


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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:27:29 -0500
From: "Ludwig's" <dludwig at us.hsanet.net>
Subject: RIMs

Ron La Borde says:
> This has me really wondering, how many of you RIMS'ers really know what the
> temperature of  your mash is at.  Most seem to use a sensor at the outflow
> point of the heat exchanger.  But, this is a long way from sensing the mash
> temperature.  How many sense the mash exit temperature?
> 
> The reason I am skeptical, is because my setup has the thermometer near the
> bottom of the mash, and the temperature runs 5 to 10 F below the exit
> temperature from the heat exchanger.  You have loss from the plumbing to
> consider.  All the PID's in the world cannot keep the mash within 1 degree F
> if the sensing is at the exchanger outlet.
> 
> All of the above is opinion, not proven fact.  What say all.

Nature of the RIMS. With a RIMS, you don't know whether you have
homogeneous mash temperature (unless you use a mixer). My SHMS allows
complete control over the mash temp with no question what the the mash
temp is and also the temperature boosts are quick and precise.

Dave Ludwig
Flat Iron Brewery


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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:52:22 -0500
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: 5 Liter Minikegs

Someone with an absurd name posted the following:

<Has anybody had any experience with these things? I was planning on
purchasing some, but there seem to be problems with leaking taps and
warping
of the kegs.>

I happen to have an interest in these kegs.  They are a great size for
homebrewing, but until recently the above problems usually made them a
disapointment.  The warping problem - technical term "boinking" - would
usually cause the kegs to self distruct.  For about a year now we have 
been
producing a product called "Phil's Relieph Bung" that is a conventional
minikeg bung modified with a pressure relief valve which vents at a
pressure about half that required to "boink."  It is an inexpensive
investment to protect your investment in the keg itself.

The German taps leak and are very fragile.  Going to the higher priced
metal one only gives you a somewhat less fragile tap - it still leaks. 

Check out the "Philtap" at listermann.com.  It is very durable and, if I
did my work well, should not leak.  Further it will work sideways as well

as vertically for low height requirements.  This gives it high spousal
acceptability as it easily fits into any fridge, even on a lower shelf.


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