---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Reverse Flow RIMS ("Lee, Brian")
  RE: RIMS ("C.D. Pritchard")
  calories ain't calories, (Dave Burley)
  Those Deadly Carbs ("scott")
  RIMS (Jonathan Peakall)
  FWH, Carbonate, W1728 (james r layton)
  casking in a Corny ("Sean Richens")
  Re: Type of brewer (Charley Burns)
  good spice info (Jeff Renner)
  Kegs, Kegs, Kegs! ("Glen Pannicke")
  Michael Josephson<cask ale from a corny> ("Gary Barbatelli")
  RE: beer and diet (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Hugh Baird going going gone? ("Mercer, David")
  ...New RIMS idea (Jamie)
  sensor placement (The Holders)
  Re: Guinness Foreign Extra Stout ("tantillo at ichange.net")
  RE: Cask Ale from a Corny ("Sherfey")
  Post-fermentation aeration ("Paul Smith")
  Part II - what kind of brewer ("Paul Smith")
  Coopers Sparkling Ale ("Thomas D. Hamann")
  Full Moon brew (Dave Burley)
  Re: RIMS (RobertJ)
  Re: Evil of Carbs (Montgomery John B DLPC)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 05:22:00 -0500
From: "Lee, Brian" <blee at attcanada.com>
Subject: Reverse Flow RIMS


A data point on the reverse flow idea:

I received my brand new pump the other day, and decided to make my first
batch using
the theory of reverse flow through the grain bed. I created a quasi-strainer
type
attachment for the hose that would pick up liquid off the top of the grain
bed out of a small
plastic container drilled with many holes on the sides and bottom, and one
larger hole
through the top for the inlet pipe to fit through.

The end result: the plastic strainer creation sucked so much of the grain
bed to itself it
weighed a couple pounds and quickly blocked most of the flow - essentially
creating a
'compacted bed' around itself. Until this happened though, the results
looked very
good...lots of circulation, and I did not notice the 'tunneling' that Doug
Brown theorized
might happen (HBD #3188), in fact the whole grain bed seemed to be 'in
motion' as if
you were constantly stirring it.

Thus I switched the in and out connections and went to the more traditional
flow through
the bed.

I still think the reverse flow method would be better - but how do we
overcome the
problems of grain pickup by the inflow pipe?

Brian Lee


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:06:03
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: RE: RIMS

Ronald La Borde asked:

>This has me really wondering, how many of you RIMS'ers really know what the
>temperature of  your mash is at.  Most seem to use a sensor at the outflow
>point of the heat exchanger.  But, this is a long way from sensing the mash
>temperature.  How many sense the mash exit temperature?

My controller senses the wort temp at both locations.  The heater is shut
off when the exit temp from the tun is at the desired mash temp. and off if
the temp at the heater exit is 2 degF above the desired mash temp.  No
scorching and no detectable enzyme degradation.  If one only controls based
on the heater exit temp, the mash will take a very long time to reach the
desired mash temp. and will never reach if if one considers heat losses in
the system.


c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net 
http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:37:16 -0500
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: calories ain't calories,

Brewsters:

I have read comments here to the effect that
calories are calories and it doesn't make any
difference what you eat. Sorry, but the
18th century concept that your body is a
Parr Bomb Calorimeter ( thermochemical
apparatus in which calorie content is
measured by burning under oxygen pressure)
is not correct. Your body apparently does
not choose to process everything you eat
( except perhaps carbohydrates). I once
read that if this model were correct, then by
eating just one carrot a day beyond your
calorie output, you would weigh
1200 pounds at 75 years old.
Obviously this model is incorrect. 


It IS true that if you choose the high carb diet
then you MUST also not eat fats, if you
desire to lose or control your  weight.
Unfortunately this has many bad effects,
most of all a severe reduction in protein intake
since fats and protein often go together. Continue
and you will eventually experience a loss of
muscle if you exercise as you are often
instructed. You end up with less lean body
mass and lower metabolism and poorer
health at the very best. And your weight gain
will return faster than ever once you begin to
eat normally. This is the well known Yo-Yo
effect on which so many diet companies
prosper.You can also make yourself very sick.

I have no trouble sticking to any diet. I once
went on just such a low fat diet under a doctor's
care and turned grey, my face sagged, my pep
disappeared and I felt terrible and constantly 

hungry. My long-time Italian barber and friend
refused to take any money for cutting my hair,
because he thought I was dying and didn't
want to get paid to cut the hair of a dead man!
Although he didn't tell me that at the time, I
recognized the fear in his eyes, went home
and tossed out the diet immediately. Because
I knew was really sick, even though I had
followed the diet to a tee. Self-discipline is
not an issue in most dieting, but starvation is.

Exercise during dieting is not to burn extra
calories as is so often quoted, but to build
muscle, so that you end up with a higher
rate of metabolism. Pound for pound, muscle 

burns three times the calories as the same
weight of fat. Higher % muscle = higher
metabolism rate  Weight training is important.
Just walking or running is not so important to 

muscle building, although it does not hurt
to have a healthy cardio-vascular system.

Low carb diets stress a high protein intake
so that you will be able to build muscle 

during the diet and end up with a higher
metabolism rate per body pound at the
you finish this diet. You are never hungry
during these diets. If you are, your carb
intake is too high or you are not eating
enough protein. At the end of the diet
you experimentally determine your
allowed carbohydrate intake and you 

are able to easily control your weight

The message to 3/4 of the population is
a low carb diet works and you will not be
hungry and can eat interesting foods and
stop choking down those interminable
salads as a substitute for nutrition. Stop
feeling guilty. It is not a self-control issue.
Your body is starved for protein and 

carbohydrates make you hungryon these
low-fat diets.

When drinking beer, the alcohol does not
count as a carbohydrate.

Low carb diets are proven to improve high
blood pressure, improve adult onset
diabetes, reduce GURD ( heartburn, reflux),
and increase stamina, especially among atheletes.

I always find it interesting that folks who have 

never tried this diet are the most vocally
opposed, often quoting time worn theories
that have been proven not to work by
millions and millions of Yo-Yo dieters.
Sorry, but you are wrong. Those who really
know it works are those who have tried it.
- ----------------------------------------
Keep on Brewin'


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 07:16:13 -0800
From: "scott" <Cuckold at cornerpub.com>
Subject: Those Deadly Carbs

Sorry if beating a dead horse.  Jason Birzer was chastising Dave burley's
article "The Evils of Carbs":

"You go on about "Avoid this, eat that".  That always bugs me.  I'm a
believer in moderation and eating too much of anything isn't healthy.
I hate the demonizing of food.  It does more harm than good.  Knowing what
goes into your body and knowing how to eat properly is a skill that isn't
taught much in this country.  Too many people look
for "silver bullets" for good health.  It's fairly simple.  Have a well
rounded diet and regular exercise."

I couldn't agree more.  My wife laughs at how we Americans eat.  Everything
has to be big, big, big, or we feel we are being ripped off.  E.g.:  The 5
pound pizza.  Starbucks smallest coffee is called a "tall".  Budweiser
"pounders".

Being in Europe for three weeks this past fall showed me the true results.
In France, the everyday fare was fantastic, to die for.  Meals are more
rounded.  Food quality over quantity (BTW, we did not go hungry).   Wine
with every meal.  Dessert!  However, if you are ever there, look around.
The people are not fat!  I saw more skirts in September in Paris, even in
women to the age of 60.  A far cry from when we came back home to the land
of plenty, and the lard most Americans carry around.    Heard the latest?
"The Bible Diet".  Even Oprah devotes every other show to dieting.

Like Jason says, if you are reasonably healthy, you can eat  ANYTHING YOU
WANT!  Just do so in moderation, and eat a variety of things.  I guess I'm
lucky.  My wife's German, and our refer is full of Swiss/gouda/camembert
cheeses, and sour cream.  We just don't eat it all at once.

Now if you'll excuse me while I go tend to my 10 gallon batch of beer!

Scott
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Salon/3768/Brewery.html




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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:03:57 -0700
From: Jonathan Peakall <jpeakall at mcn.org>
Subject: RIMS


Ron La Borde says:
>> This has me really wondering, how many of you RIMS'ers really know what
>>>>the
> >temperature of  your mash is at.  Most seem to use a sensor at the outflow
> point of the heat exchanger.  But, this is a long way from sensing the mash
> temperature.  How many sense the mash exit temperature?
>
> The reason I am skeptical, is because my setup has the thermometer near the
> bottom of the mash, and the temperature runs 5 to 10 F below the exit
> temperature from the heat exchanger.  You have loss from the plumbing to
> consider.  All the PID's in the world cannot keep the mash within 1 degree F
> if the sensing is at the exchanger outlet.
>
> All of the above is opinion, not proven fact.  What say all.


I use an RTD probe (hooked to a PID) in my mash tun, which is supposed to
read the average temp over the length of the probe, which in my case is
22". I have a couple of digital and regular food type thermometers, and
have done a lot of fooling about with them in the mash and have come to the
conclusion that with a properly running RIMS that there is less then 1
degree thermoclines in the mash. The moment you stop the pump, however,
thermoclines of several degrees appear rapidly.  I have always wondered
where folks put their probe. What's the consensus?


>Nature of the RIMS. With a RIMS, you don't know whether you have
>homogeneous mash temperature (unless you use a mixer). My SHMS allows
>complete control over the mash temp with no question what the the mash
>temp is and also the temperature boosts are quick and precise.

With any system you don't know until you check. There seems to be a lot of
"This system is best" kinda thing going on in the RIMS thread. There are,
as the saying goes, many ways to skin the cat. And so many factors, can you
be *sure* that one way is better then others? I know enough about beer to
know that there is a hell of a lot more to know. All I can say about my
RIMS is that after much tinkering (which I enjoy) it makes fabulous beer
that I can reproduce easily.  It has strong points and weak points, but it
is reliable. I think the same could be said for any well constructed mash
system.

********************************************

"I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from
them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and
the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves."
 -- John Wayne

********************************************



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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:08:34 -0600
From: james r layton <blutick at juno.com>
Subject: FWH, Carbonate, W1728

Louis Bonham has gallantly taken the First Wort Hopping ball and is
dashing toward the end zone. I'd just like to second (or third) Jeff
Renner's suggestion to extend the FWH soak time to 1 hour prior to boil.
There _may_ be something going on during this time period which affects
utilization one way or another.

For the record, I like FWH (in the styles I've tried it). I believe it
results in a nicer hop flavor. I also believe that it gives a smoother
hop bitterness, not less hop bitterness. The question which initially
caught my attention requested info on how to estimate the utilization
factor for a FWH addition. Louis' experiment should provide a foundation
for a more correct answer to that original question. 

There was a question a while back on salts which could be used to raise
the carbonate content of brewing water. I've been using sodium
bicarbonate (good old baking soda) for this purpose. As far as I can
tell, it works fine. Any comments?

 Mike Uchima asked about Wyeast 1728 and smokey flavor. I've used this
yeast in a couple of Scottish Exports, fermented around 63F, with only
pale ale malt and roast barley in the grain bill. I've never detected any
smokey character in these beers. A couple of competition judges said they
tasted a slight smokiness but I think they were reaching because the
style guideline they were using mentioned it.

Jim Layton


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:38:44 -0600
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca>
Subject: casking in a Corny

I just did my first this way, and my major piece of advice is to do it. 
Those with experience must have more to say, but I can vouch for the
possibility of success on the first try.

If you have the type of keg where the spear ends in the centre of the
bottom, instead of a little dent along the side, you will have to figure
something out to get all of the beer out by gravity.  I took a gas-in tube
from an idle keg and stuck it in the beer out hole.

I primed with 1/4 cup glucose and 20 mL of pre-dissolved isinglass (the
kind that sometimes comes with a wine kit), but no dry hops.  I vented the
pressure for two days, then let it sit.  It took a week to clear.

I didn't really control the "breather" pressure.  I vented pressure if the
dispense was too vigorous, and added a "shot" of gas if I was about to pull
a vacuum.

Now that I'm below the relief valve, I'm dispensing with air, just as an
experiment.  It's already closer in flavour to a pint in a pub than
anything else I've made.

Cheers!
Sean


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:13:37 -0800
From: Charley Burns <cburns99 at pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Type of brewer

Combination of anal scientific and pragmatist.
 
 I start out a brew session being extremely careful and endup just getting
it into the carboy with yeast. Sometimes I get lucky and don't infect it along 
the way. It usually has something to do with how much homebrew I've been 
sampling along the way. Or scotch. Or port. Or...
 
 Charley (posting from new email client that hopefully will go out as text only)

I was gone for awhile but I'm back now...
 
 
 


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:56:28 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: good spice info

Brewers

I think this page may have been mentioned in HBD before as I have
bookmarked an older URL for it, but I wanted to bring it to your attention
again, especially for those interested in details about spices that may be
used in brewing (such as grains of paradise, which I have used in my ginger
wit).  It is a very detailed site that can occupy a curious mind for some
time.

Gernot Katzer's Spice Pages
http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katzer/engl/index.html

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:55:29 -0500
From: "Glen Pannicke" <gpannicke at email.msn.com>
Subject: Kegs, Kegs, Kegs!

OK, it's my turn to crow!

Being recently engaged I now know one of the reasons why I decided to marry
this woman.  Aside from the fact that she takes an active (sometimes too much)
role in my brewing activities, this beautiful creature has given me a dual 5
gal corny system for my birthday.  I will soon be joining many of you HBD'ers
who enjoy the benefits associated with corny kegs.  So here's my first stupid
question regarding them:

Has anyone had any success in attempting to use a CIP/SIP-type system for the
automated cleaning and sanitizing of homebrewing vessels such as fermenters,
bottles, kegs and brewing vessels?    Archive searches on this topic were
scant, but I'm sure they're out there, so private e-mails from any one with a
successful system in place are welcomed.

As for 5L mini-kegs I can only speak from my own experience (which has been
good).

Carbonation of mini-kegs is critically dependent upon 2 things - headspace and
priming sugar.  I have found that a 1 inch headspace provides reasonably
consistent carbonation when 5 gal (19 L) is batch primed with 100 g(approx.
5/8 cup) of dry malt extract, or 100 ml of honey.  I can't find my notes on
dextrose priming, but Papazian's recommendations for kegging are good.

I have only had 2 batches which were overcarbonated causeing massive foaming
of the first 3 or 4 glasses.  I mean ALL head and no beer!  I suspect a number
of factors may have come into play: the attenuative properties of the yeast
used, variabilities in the fermentability of the priming sugars and innacurate
measurement of the headspace.  I solved the last problem by using a permanent
ink marker to mark my bottle dispenser 1" below the top of the keg and filling
to the mark.  Use of a flashlight helps to see inside helps ;-)

I also suspect the tap as well.  Knowing that the Germans are fond of a
generous head on their beer, I think the German-designed tap promotes head
formation during dispense.  Of the two batches I have had foam problems with,
one was definately over carbonated.  I think the beer shower at tap time was
enough to prove it (but I smelled nice).  The other one was very dextrinous
and dry hopped.  I believe both are foam-positive.  Possible beer/tap combo
here.

To seal the kegs I leave the bungs wet with Iodopor to ease the bung in place,
turn the bung a little once it's in place and then tap with a rubber mallet to
seat.  I've re-used the same bungs at least 8 times so far without leaks.
Time to change 'em out.  $1/bung is not a lot to prevent flat beer.

To prevent leaks once tapped, I use a dab of KY jelly on the tip and neck of
the CO2 cartridge (leaving myself open to jokes about greasing up with KY and
boinking).  Don't use vaseline as any petroleum based lubricant will degrade
natural rubber seals (if they exist).  I tried lithium based grease without
incident, but just don't like the idea...

I have also found better seals are made with the CO2 cardridges that have a
dimpled tip as opposed to the ones with flat tips.

As for the tap, get the metal one.  It will survive the inevitable drop from
the counter to the floor when you're seing double and the guys are screaming
for more.

Other than my observed 2 out of 13 batches having minor foaming problems
(which I probably could have avoided if I was thinking properly) and the 1 or
2 / dozen CO2 cartridges not sealing properly, I have been very pleased with
the minis.  That's 26 individual fills so far (for those who are counting)
since I keg half and bottle half of each batch.  You really can't beat it when
space is at a premium or when you want a travel-friendly put-up.  They even
fit nicely in those new insulated picnic bags designed for cans.  I cut a hole
in the top of one to accomodate the tap and fill the dead space with ice
packs.

I hope I have been able to help rectify the bad rap minis have gotten over the
years.  Even with having the new corny system on hand, I plan on sticking with
them for medium sized put-ups of light lagers since they save space and can be
easily kept on hand during the summer months when the last-miniute partys and
picnics are planned.  Everyone will love you for it.

PS.

Kelly,

"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention, with
the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila."

Love the tagline.  Killed a case of homebrew empties for target practice one
afternoon.
Bad hillbilly - go sit in the corner!

Glen

================================
Millstone Alehouse
alehouse at homepage.com
http://alehouse.homepage.com
================================



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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:08:27 EST
From: "Gary Barbatelli" <garybarbatelli at hotmail.com>
Subject: Michael Josephson<cask ale from a corny>

You'll probably need to cut down a spare dip tube to gas side length.
A pressure tester with a needle valve (St. Patrick's of Texas-$12.25)
will allow you to moniter pressure and vent excess.Blanket pressure
should be VERY LOW, 1 psi if you can manage it. Temperature between
52 & 58 F. Cheers!

______________________________________________________


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:55:47 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: beer and diet

From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>

>Dave Burley posted a lengthy message yesterday on beer and various dietary
>concepts. Unfortunately, much of this information was either misleading or
>downright wrong.

 ..snip..

>As far as beer goes, most of the calories are actually coming from the
>ETHANOL not from residual carbohydrates (except for some of the sweeter
>styles). Ethanol has more calories than either protein or carbohydrates,
>almost as many as fat.

>In general, the main factor in weight gain/loss is the balance between
total
>calories eaten versus total calories burned.

I for one do think that Dave's message on beer and dietary concepts, to use
an old hackneyed phrase, 'hit the nail on the head'.  It is clear to me that
he is from the "Sugar Buster's" school of thought, and so am I.

How do I know, real life experience!

Answer this: If Ethanol has most of the calories, why does non-alcoholic
beer still have about the same calories as regular?	

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:03:51 -0800
From: "Mercer, David" <dmercer at path.org>
Subject: Hugh Baird going going gone?

My local homebrew shop is buying up sacks of Hugh Baird malt because, the
owner tells me, they are pulling out of North America and will no longer be
available in the US or Canada.

Anybody else heard this?

If true, it's not the end of the world, I suppose. There are other good
British malts out there. But HB pale ale malt was a house malt in my
brewery, and I'd hate to see it go.



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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:58:17 -0800
From: Jamie <jamie at pub-sf.com>
Subject: ...New RIMS idea




> On 10/08/99 Terry Stinger wrote:
> 
> I have been working on a new design for a RIMS heating chamber. So
> far this is only in the design stage. I haven't started to build it.
> The recent descussion regarding counter-flow heaters (which I have built,
> tested, and replaced - pictures available upon request).  I believe
> Louis Bohnam mentioned a brewer that is using oil (turned out to be glycol)
> as the heating fluid.
> 
> >From this, I was thinking about a new type of heating element.
> The design is quite similar to the older wort chillers, the one's with a
> copper
> coil inside of a 8" PVC shell.  But here is the catch, what if the shell was
> filled with OIL (maybe even motor oil - very affordable) and an electric water
> heating element was mounted into the end of the shell. The heating element
> could be just a cheap one from your local hardware. I think the element
> would have to be the surface mount kind instead of the screw-in type.
> 

Awwwww man!  Just when I thought I had a new and original idea...  Looks
like everything has been invented at least once already...  :)  Actually
what your thinking of is called a recirculating bath, and is used in
various
scientific/pharmaceutical/laboratory environments.  The real deal has a
heating
and cooling circuit in a bath of water, and a coil is passed through the
bath to
heat/cool your liquid of choice.  They look really slick, and can be had
from
places like Cole Parmer for $1,000 - $2,500.

I'm in the process of putting together just such a contraption (as time
permits - 
eg very slowly)  I've got a 12" long peice of 4" CPVC pipe as a
container, and 
a 1500W electric immersion heater that I salvaged out of a scrap yard
(Watlow
solid St Stl ~8" long, 1/2" dia,) about 20' of coiled 1/4" OD copper
tube to run the
proto-wort through, and an Omega PID temperature controller w/a Type K
thermo-
couple for control.  When assembled it looks kinda like a plastic
version of a
nuclear bomb from a James Bond flick...  :)

I don't have the numbers handy, but using water as the filler medium
between the
coils and the heater removes any scortching problems, and the heat
transfer is
enough to heat up the wort in one pass at about 1 litre/min (using some
modified
heat exchanger calculations)  I haven't taken the thermal mass of the
grain into
account, but it shouldn't take too long to bring it up to speed,
especially if you 
mix the grain bed.

I ran a test of it about a month ago, and it worked pretty well with
just a water
filled cooler (no grain till I get it working right)  Only problem I had
was that 
the heater was screwed directly into the top cap (removable), and the
top 1" or so
wasn't in the HX medium, and got hot enough to <ahem> melt the CPVC. 
While you might
think *DuH*, typically on those heaters the top 1-2" is dead space (not
heated)
so you don't have to worry about it.  Since mine was a salvaged item, I
had no
way of knowing it was a special order...  Oops.  I don't know how an
electric
hot water heater element would fare, but I would think that there'd be
similar
problems.


I'm currently machining a Stainless extension to drop the heater down
far enough 
that it's fully immersed, and will give it another try over the
holidaze.  Another 
option would be to use a copper/stainless pipe instead of PVC/CPVC, but
that isn't
cheap, and youd want to insulate it.

Jamie

- -- 
People who drink light "beer" don't like the taste of beer; they just 
like to pee a lot! 
 - Capital Brewery, Middleton, WI 

          <----    http://www.pub-sf.com    ---->


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:51:21 -0800
From: The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com>
Subject: sensor placement

Ron asks about sensor placement in PID (proportional, integral,
derivative) temperature controlled systems.

I agree with Ron, and that's why I have the sensor in my RHEMS
(Recirculating Heat Exchange Mashing System) underneath the false bottom
in my mashtun. You might get a bit of drift in the temperature at first
while the controller tries to figure out the loop, but it settles right
in. 

I've heard that in the Brew Magic systems you actually have to calibrate
the controller offset, so it seems that maybe they have the sensor in
the wort stream exiting the exchanger. Any Brew Magic owners out there
that can comment on this?


Diligently spelling out the acronyms, 

Wayne Holder


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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 00:46:55 +0000 (/etc/localtime)
From: "tantillo at ichange.net" <tantillo at ichange.net>
Subject: Re: Guinness Foreign Extra Stout

A recipe for this stout can be found in Protz and Wheeler's "Brew Classic
European Beers at Home".  Protz and Wheeler tend to underestimate the hop
utilization so you might want to recalculate the hop additions.  There are
probably other clone type recipes published either on paper or on the web.


Tony Tantillo 

tantillo at ichange.net




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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 07:35:52 -0500
From: "Sherfey" <sherf at warwick.net>
Subject: RE: Cask Ale from a Corny

Michael -
I serve via handpump from a corny, and have found that the best pressure is
very little pressure.  My gage doesn't read that low, and when I add
pressure I just crack the valve and then shut it off.  The handpump doesn't
like pressure and will leak with anything over ~1.0lb.

The most important thing with this setup is temperature.  If the temperature
rises, you'll lose dissolved CO2.  I stand the corny inside a homemade
styrofoam box with ice on top (a 2 liter soda bottle) and a towel to cover.
It helps that I have a cool basement year-round, but in the heat of summer
all-weekend parties this thing works just fine as long as the ice is there
to keep the temp around 55-60F.

Your gravity setup will be somewhat simpler.  You could probably use a
picnic cooler and replace the drain with a valve hooked to the keg's gas
fitting, using the liquid line as gas line.

Cheers!
David Sherfey
Warwick, NY


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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 07:40:10 -0600
From: "Paul Smith" <pksmith_morin at msn.com>
Subject: Post-fermentation aeration

Hello all - recently, after a series of stuck fermentations, repitched with
yeast from my brewery.  The yeast has a beautiful profile - clean, fruity,
and, under normal oxygenation and temperature ranges, performs like a charm.
Enter simply splashing wort into my (converted keg) fermentors, and a high OG
(16, 17, and 21.5), and the yeast pooped out a couple degrees P early.

Though terrified of post fermentation aeration, in talking with one of our
cellarmen, an interesting point came up and I'd like the opinion of the HBD
community.  Provided I racked the beer into a new vessel, reintroducing air
with a population of fresh yeast slurry is no problem, according to the
cellarman, as the new yeast will rapidly consume it in its respiration cycle.
Following this logic one would want to deliberately avoid overpitching to
ensure yeast undergo significant growth (and thus O2 uptake).  There are only
two problems I see with this:  (1) the yeast remaining in suspension from the
first vessel will freak with the introduction of O2, and may undergo mutation
(thus, no repropagation from this batch); (2) alcohol toxicity may stall the
new yeast, coming straight from the friendly confines of a Brinks propagator
into beer.

What say ye?



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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 07:52:33 -0600
From: "Paul Smith" <pksmith_morin at msn.com>
Subject: Part II - what kind of brewer

Forgot to mention what kind of brewer I am.  In cycles of every weekend, till
the fermentors are laid down.  I'm very interested in isolating out every
characteristic I can think of, so I undergo trials with various parameters -
e.g., standard 2-row v. SMC Pale v. SMC Special Pale v. Maris, Pipkin, etc.
Similar for hop varieties, additions (IBU's from the whirlpool v. at beginning
of boil, etc.) yeasts, and mash techniques and schedules.

BTW, I recently changed my sparge technique to "burst sparging" from
continuous sparging, and realized a tremendous leap in my brewhouse
efficiency - 85% to 93%.  Rather than maintaining a constant ~2# column of
water on top of the grain bed, I allow the column to get quite low, then
"dump" up to 3-4" on top of the bed.  You do have to watch your pressure
differentials - but thus far I've experienced no problems either with a stuck
or free flow lauter.  My understanding from Kunze (and talking with brewers I
work with) is that this is common practice in a great many breweries.

BTW, I like beer, too!



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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 00:20:52 +1000
From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au>
Subject: Coopers Sparkling Ale

Have got a recipe here out of Lutzen and Stevens' book "More Homebrew
Favourites", the recipe is by Craig D. Amundsen in Minnesota.

19 l batch
120 min. boil
sg - 1.058
fg - 1.016
5 weeks in primary (!?!?!?)

4.54 kg 2 row pale
454 g crystal (40 L)
454 g white table sugar
14 g POR pellets 11% fwh
43 g POR pellets 11% 120 minutes
Yeast Lab AO1 Aust. Ale yeast
1 cup (275 ml) corn sugar to prime

Add 7.1 l of 60 deg water to cracked malt, rest for 40 mins.
Add 3.3 l of boiling water to mash, stir until temp. settles at 69 deg.,
rest for 90 mins.
Heat to 77 deg. and rest for 10 mins.
Sparge with 19 l of 77 deg water and add 14 g of POR as soon as kettle
bottom is covered. 
Bring to boil, add remaining POR and sugar and boil 2 hours.
Chill, pitch and aerate well.
Ferment at 16 deg, prime with corn sugar and bottle.

Hope it works for you Phil, let us know how it compares.
Is there any one else out there who has attempted an all grain clone of
South Australias flag ship beer, and is it widely available in North
America?
THOMAS D. HAMANN
Photographer, Brewer and Tenor!
Box 53 Hahndorf  5245 
South Australia
AUSTRALIA   (still a dopey constitutional monarchy)
Telephone  +61 8 8388 7780


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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 10:00:18 -0500
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Full Moon brew

Brewsters:

In addition to Odd and Even numbered days
providing a good excuse to brew,
December 22, 1999 will be the first full moon
to occur on a Winter Solstice in 133 years
and will be the only one in the next 100 years
or so. The moon will appear about 14% larger
than at its apogee since this full moon occurs in
conjunction with its perigee with earth. The
earth  is closer to the sun also during winter
and will make the moon 7% brighter. As the
Scots might say on this night "'tis a Braugh
Breckt moonlect nect t'necht, an' yurr awright
if ya ken".

The last time this happened, December 21, 1866.
the Lakota Sioux staged a devastating
retaliatory raid on soldiers in the Wyoming
territory at night.

Sounds like a good excuse to brew instead
of going to that crowded mall! Maybe a
"Full Moon" Scotch Ale or for those not
PC challenged, a "Pale Face Ale" or
a "Lakota Lager".
- -----------------------------------------------------
Keep on Brewin'
Dave Burley

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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:45:17 -0500
From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com>
Subject: Re: RIMS

"Ludwig's" <dludwig at us.hsanet.net> wrote:
Nature of the RIMS. With a RIMS, you don't know whether you have
homogeneous mash temperature (unless you use a mixer). My SHMS allows
complete control over the mash temp with no question what the the mash
temp is and also the temperature boosts are quick and precise.

In my experience I would certainly agree with the above. The temperature
must be taken in the mash and the mash must be stirred. However, I find
that intermittent stirring is more than adequate until you do approach mash
temp. During an 8 - 9 min temperature boost I stir for 15 - 20 seconds at 3
and 6 mins and then watch/stir more closely for the last min or so.
Continous stirring would eliminate the need for any attention
Bob
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://pbsbeer.com Manufacturer of 3 Vessel


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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:38:30 -0600
From: Montgomery John B DLPC <MontgomeryJB at ncsc.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Evil of Carbs


Jason Birzer wrote:
<<...beer can be fattening due to carbs.  If you take too much, the body
needs some place to store it.>>


For another data point on this debate, I thought I had read or heard
somewhere that it's the alcohol that compromises the body's ability to
metabolize carbs (?) fat (?) rather than the number of carbs in an alcoholic
beverage. Anyone have anymore "official" info on this?

John M.


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