---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  +  We Mail and Host Christmas Special + (justgoodnews)
  RAY DANIELS TO EDIT NEW BREWER, ZYMURGY (Kim.Hansen)
  Budweiser Budvar, HSA, Millennium ("Ken Schramm")
  DoppleBock, sparging and attenuation ("Mr. Joy Hansen")
  Hugh Baird? Try Beestons Maris Otter (Jim Cave)
  Propane in basement (kathy/jim)
  Qxygen Barrier Bags for "Cask" Ale ("Brett A. Spivy")
  diets (kathy/jim)
  thoughts on a rims (J Daoust)
  Brew shops or Clubs ("Stephen Jordan")
  RIMS stuff ("Steve Phillips")
  cooppers SA ("Darren Robey")
  Re: Lunacy (Spencer W Thomas)
  Attenuation (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: Atkins Diet (phil sides jr)
  Incomplete Starch Conversion ("John Herman")
  RE: Cask ale in a corny ("Sherfey")
  Scaling up/head retention/type of brewer ("John Stegenga")
  Comments on bad batch? ("Dan Senne")
  Livin' in da UP (Nathan Kanous)
  re: installing valve in aluminum kettle (John_E_Schnupp)
  Carbs and barbs ("Alan Meeker")
  Re; Head Retention; Cask Breathers ("Gary Barbatelli")
  Re: Lunacy ("Dic Gleason")
  Re: Scaling Up - The Next Step? (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: Calories/PID (Spencer W Thomas)
  Music to drink Pils by (Jeff Renner)
  scaling up/homebrew shop (MVachow)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

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Date: Tue, 14 Dec 99 03:45:51 EST
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Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:14:54 -0600
From: Kim.Hansen at state.sd.us
Subject: RAY DANIELS TO EDIT NEW BREWER, ZYMURGY

Hello fellow brewers!
 
I just got this news article from the Real Beer Page
Monthly News Digest.
 
Can anyone provide any info on Ray, and do you think
he will make a big difference in the format of Zymurgy?
 
I've been thinking of joining HBA and subscribing to
Zymurgy, but from the mixed reviews I have read on
HBD, I am at a standstill.  Any thoughts would be
greatly appreciated!
 
- --------------------------
 
RAY DANIELS TO EDIT NEW BREWER, ZYMURGY
Ray Daniels has taken the job as editor-in-chief of The New Brewer and 
Zymurgy magazines. Amahl Turczyn will join Daniels as the associate 
editor of both publications. Daniels wears many hats in the beer world. 
He is an award-winning home brewer, was 1998 Beer Writer of the Year 
(he's written three books and is a frequent contributor to several 
periodicals), is an active member of the Chicago Beer Society and 
organizer of the Real Ale Festival in Chicago.
 
- --------------------------
 
Kim
 
 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Kim Hansen
Telecommunications
State of South Dakota
Kim.Hansen at state.sd.us
 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:18:28 -0500
From: "Ken Schramm" <schramk at resa.net>
Subject: Budweiser Budvar, HSA, Millennium

After reading about the availability of the Budvar undermodified malt, I 
saw, but did not hear, a report about Budvar on CNN (I was standing in 
line at the bank and they don't turn up the sound on their monitor).  I 
noticed that they were using the Budweiser name, and not just simply 
Budweis as I has previously seen while in Europe.  Did they win some court 
battle or just go off and do this?  Either way, it was a delight to see.  
If you heard the audio, could you please fill me in?

I got nicked for two things before I went into work related hibernation a 
month or so ago:  First was the possibiliy of HSA when racking hot wort 
onto fruit in a plastic fermenter.  Yes, if you just splashed it onto the 
fruit, there would be cause for concern.  My boil tun valves are reduced 
down to 5/8 OD stainless steel pipe, and with a piece of 5/8 ID food grade 
plastic tubing slipped over that, extending down into the plastic 
fermenter, I can run the hot wort off as quietly and splash free as a pass 
through a counterflow.  With the exception of doubling the exposed surface 
area in the pot and fermenter, I don't see (or taste) any real problem.

On the millennium front:  I just replaced a bunch of computer equipment to 
avoid the millennium bug, so it seems like a millennium to me.  I know it 
won't really be the millennium until 2001, but when I turned 10, I started 
my second decade, and when I turn 100, I'll start my second century, so I 
am going to keep right on going with the "best homebrew party of the new 
millennium" bit.  Even the theologians don't go so far as to think that we 
got the date  right without any room for possible error, so I'm going to 
party twice.  Count me in the "yeah, I know, but I just don't give a ^%$#" 
category. 

I am looking for clubs to step up to host a 2 hour time slot in the 
Hospitality suite at the AHA convention in June.  Bring beer (or mead or 
cider), info on the beer, and whatever soak-up type munchies you care to 
provide.  Please contact me privately.

The AHA2K convention sounds like it will be a great time.  The presenters 
list keeps getting longer and more esteemed.  Peter Blum, formerly of 
Stroh's and still the family historian, has agreed to present.  He is a 
treasure trove of information, stories, and Dan McConnell said he nailed 
malt by variety, region of state and date of harvest by blind-tasting a 
handful.  It dropped Dan's jaw.  If you can do that, you should be 
presenting, too. 

I want to reiterate that those who want the AHA to provide better 
services, and to better match their profile of an NPO representative of 
their interests, should attend and spend some time dealing with those 
points.  The AHA and its members need to begin thinking about their 
organization as a member-driven organization, in which the members both 
determine AND work to achieve the organization's goals.  If we are to 
succeed and prosper like other hobby or interest based member 
organizations, we need to start 
the process of decentralizing those roles, and there can be
no better place to get that ball rolling than at the convention.  

192 days until the Best Homebrew Party of the new Millenium

Yours,
Ken Schramm

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:32:20 -0500
From: "Mr. Joy Hansen" <joytbrew at patriot.net>
Subject: DoppleBock, sparging and attenuation

Hi Charles,

Your question about sparging will most likely remain unanswered with this
response.  However, I wanted to let you know that I use the mentioned sparge
technique with my RIMS and it works!  I gravity recirculate the run off
liquor until it's as clear as possible and then move the liquor to the boil
pot by pumping or pouring.  I call it a pseudo sparge.  I don't do it to get
great extractions.  I do it because I have mechanized stirring in addition
to RIMS recirculation.  This system reaches the desired temperature gets the
extraction done quickly and effortlessly.

                                           Joy"T"Brew



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Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:53:36 -0800
From: Jim Cave <cave at psc.org>
Subject: Hugh Baird? Try Beestons Maris Otter

	There was a comment about Hugh Baird malt disappearing from the North 
American scene.  If you have a chance, try Beeston's Maris Otter.  You 
won't go back:  10% higher yield, 100% better flavour and clarity.

					Jim Cave



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:37:55 -0400
From: kathy/jim <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Propane in basement

Hope folks noticed the article about the Michigan citizen
dutifully preparing for Y2K, stored propane in his
basement and blew away his house.

This issue has been discussed ad naseum in previous
HBD's, but, did we really take the hazard seriously?

cheers, jim booth


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:15:40 -0600
From: "Brett A. Spivy" <baspivy at softdisk.com>
Subject: Qxygen Barrier Bags for "Cask" Ale

On 12/14/1999 "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> wrote:
<snip>
Hey Jack here is a product opportunity. How about an oxygen barrier
corney bladder? A corney volumed bag with a hard plastic tube you insert
up the air line from inside the keg, the bag is fed through the plastic
tube and then inverted over the threads of the keg. Then a mini dip-tube
 . . .
<snip>

Why not just use the Bag in a Box System?  Many wine making suppliers
sell a 4L and 18L aluminized mylar bag with a circular hard plastic
(polyethylene ?!?) ring affixed in the bottom corner so that you fill,
then snap on a soft (like the material playtex nipples (Fouch! -SHHHH!!)
are made of) rubber spout.  These bags are rated at 15 psi because the
California table wine industry positively charges them to 8 psi with
nitrogen prior to filling.  you could fill with your favorite "real"
ale, primed to your desired level, cellar at you accustomed temperature,
then slide the (now somewhat bloated bag) into your dispensing box and
Viola!  Cask conditioned ale.

<doe-eyed, naive, idea-man mode off/>
<flameproofed cynical, heard-it-all mode on>

Brett A. Spivy
Stolen Cactus Brewery
Shreveport, LA


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Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:28:43 -0400
From: kathy/jim <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: diets

>From 50 years or so of fighting the fat body battle, I conclude:

As I remember, carbohydrates have 4 cals/g, fats 9 cal/gm and
ETOH provides something like 6 cal/gm , somewhere inbetween.

Low carbohydrate diets do work to make people lose weight.
They basically throw the body into ketosis and cause it to
lose water.  Ketosis makes you feel poorly so you don't eat,
have much energy, feel like accomplishing anything or
doing sustained accomplishments.  YMMV

Doctors do not like to make people sick, so they advise
against throwing your body into ketosis to lose weight.

Successful dieters on low carb diets, manage to control their
calorie intake to levels needed to dump the pounds.  Feeling
poorly due to ketosis helps limit calorie intake.

Exercise both burns calories and builds muscle mass.  Body
weight in muscle mass has a higher basal metabolism than
fat, plus it makes all sorts of activity easier to sustain.
Result....calories get burned.

As someone who has been fat and not so fat at different times,
I can attest that fewer calories and more exercise is at the
heart of a lifestyle need to stay trim.  The French, Italians, etc
are getting fatter as they adjust to modern life.  Europeans don't
serve large servings and have seconds like the good old USA.

For me to be trim, I need to focus on things other than food and
drink, whether it is eating and drinking or not eating and
drinking.  When one fills one's life with thots of what one is
eating or dieting and not eating, one will be hungry, and I'll
put on weight.

One trying to lose weight will usually be hungry unless one
is preoccupied by something else as graduate studies, coping
with a mind consuming event, building RIMS, etc.  (note beer related).

A food diary that tells us when we've filled our fuel tank with the
calories our activity requires to sustain our bodies, is the only way
a fatty like myself can know when enuf is enuf.  My appetite cannot\
be trusted.

When I was a runner and a brewer, the runner meetings had more
boney asses than the brewer meetings.

Most skinny runners eat carbs rather than low carb diets.

If I'm so wise, why ain't I trim?  It tastes so good and I don't
mean Budmillercoors.

cheers, jim booth

PS...Has anyone else tried the Munich Recipe Lowenbrau being
imported to MI by LaBatt?  Interested in your comments.


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:07:26 -0800
From: J Daoust <thedaousts at ixpres.com>
Subject: thoughts on a rims

ok,all this talk on using a rims has re-fueled my need? ok want for one.
It would seem if I was to use a vessel containing the heater element, a
coil of 1/2" copper for the wort, and some sort of  medium, I could have
a heat exchanger that would heat the wort to a specified temp without
scorching or overheating. I am thinking of placing one thermostat on the
vessel to control the heating temp, and run the pump for the entire
length of the mash to keep the temp even.  I am doing the mash in a 10
gal water cooler, so it retains the heat very well already.  With my
system the way it is now, I only have to reheat the batch maybe twice in
90 minutes.
Any ideas, thoughts, welcome, Jerry Daoust


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Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:19:43 -0500
From: "Stephen Jordan" <Carrotbay at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Brew shops or Clubs

Anybody out there know of any homebrew clubs or homebrew shops in the
Charlottesville Va. area.

Thanks
SRJ



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Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:10:57 -0600
From: "Steve Phillips" <swp at spcinc-usa.com>
Subject: RIMS stuff

Howdy...

Ron wonders how to test the temperature of the mash with a rims system.
Simply place the thermometer probe in front of the pump with a "T"
connection (you've brewed on the Possum Trot Brewery, Ron).  Drawing from
the return, you've got the best possible reading of average mash
temperature.  I tried placing the probe into the center of the mash, but I
was disappointed with the results after putting a glass floating thermometer
into the top of the mash.  Of course without gobs of laborious stirring
there will be differences in the temperature of the mash tun as a whole, but
measuring the temp at the source of draw from the tun should be pretty
foolproof as to how much heat has to be added to the wort.

I built a Rick Calley type setup with an HLT heat exchanger about three
years ago, and it has served me very well.  But after following the recent
threads I want to add my bit to the conversation...   a 25 foot coil of HVAC
copper is not a very efficient way to ramp temps.  I figure that if I
plotted the temps over the mash it would be sort of a linear ramp instead of
the "stair steps" I've been wanting.  I've been searching for a source of
coiled finned copper to improve the efficiency of the thermal transfer and
allow me to follow the ramp schedule a bit more to plan, and might have
found one in an Alabama manufacturer.  Problem is they only want to do runs
in thousand foot lengths.  If anyone is interested in looking into
purchasing a coil 15 feet in length by 12 inches in diameter (or something
like this), please let me know by private e-mail and I'll follow up on the
costs.  Their thermal engineer is looking into what is needed and
approximately how much the production run will cost per unit.

Party on...

Steve Phillips
The Possum Trot Brewery
Long Beach, MS


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:55:18 +1000
From: "Darren Robey" <drobey at awb.com.au>
Subject: cooppers SA





>for the coopers speakling ale use the franklins malt...schooner is for
largers.
This is directly opposite to my beliefe.  Most Australian Frainklin is
exported to Asia for lager brewing.  Schooner and Arapiles etc are used for
Australian brewing with large amounts also exported.  Franklin pays a
premium to growers as it is a premium lager malt.


>is the criticism at using POR hops for flavouring directed at the major
Australian brewers??

It wouldnt matter what hops Australian mega brews use as it is mostly used
as iso extract anyhow. CUB dont use any hops in the kettle at all, but add
the extract before bottling. I suspect most also do the same. I use quite a
lot of POR as a bittering hop, but never bother using it for late additions
as in my ohte only affect is has is to leave a harsh flavour.

BTW I'm open to be proven wrong on the franklin storey, but thats what
growers were told when the variety was released about 5 years ago.

Darren Robey



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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:09:57 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Lunacy 

Paul,

I hate to disappoint you, but the full moon occurs on Dec 22 at
1731UT, that is 12:31 EST.  I guess if you're in Japan it happens on
Dec 23.

This info courtesy of the US Naval Observatory at
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/AA/data/docs/MoonPhase.html#y1999

And again, according to the UNSO, the solstice is
Dec   22 0744UT, or 2:44 (AM) EST.  I guess if you're on the west
coast, it's on the 21st by about 15 minutes.

See http://aa.usno.navy.mil/AA/data/docs/EarthSeasons.html



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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:15:59 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Attenuation

ChuckM writes:

    I had a bottle of Salvator and measured it's gravity at about
    1.016.  I read that the starting gravity is about 1.075.  This
    would lead to an apparent attenuation of about 79%.  None of the
    available lager yeasts claim attenuations this high.

The effect of yeast on attenuation is so much smaller than the effect
of your mash schedule and grain bill that I really don't see the point
in quoting "attenuation" as a percentage in a yeast description.

Maybe saying "high," "medium," and "low" attenuation is meaningful.
That gives you some information you can use.  But to say that a
yeast's attenuation is "70-75%" is ridiculous.  I can make a wort that
will attenuate to only 50% and another one that will attenuate to 90%
with that SAME YEAST.  (You don't believe the 90% number?  I have a
Belgian-style strong ale that started at 1.080 and ended at 1.008.
'Struth!) 



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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:25:39 -0500
From: phil sides jr <psides at carl.net>
Subject: Re: Atkins Diet

Steven Owens writes:

>"Yes it is/No it's not" claims.  It would be nice to see some
>qualified medical person actually refute Atkins' claims instead of
>waving their hands and dismissing it.

You won't see it because they can't; if this were not true, it would
have already happened.  Dr. Atkins has been at this for about thirty
years.  'Conventional medicine' as you call it has had ample time to
refute his claims.

Phil Sides, Jr.
Concord, NH
- --
Macht nicht o'zapft ist, Prost!



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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 05:32:03 -0500
From: "John Herman" <johnvic at earthlink.net>
Subject: Incomplete Starch Conversion

I had read one famous home brewing author say that he mashes ( infusion
mash ) for 30 minutes.  He states that  while this may not be the efficient
use of grain, on a 5 gallon scale the price difference is small.  Other than
that, is there any problems with an incomplete starch conversion?  Will it
affect the flavor of my brew?

John Herman
johnvic at earthlink.net


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:11:45 -0500
From: "Sherfey" <sherf at warwick.net>
Subject: RE: Cask ale in a corny

After Jeff's words I'm thinking maybe I'm just lucky.  With my handpump
system, I crack the gas valve and shut it off maybe once a week, and if I
have cracked too much and get pump bleed, I just bleed all of the gas off.
It's possible (probable) that there is air sucking in there, but enough of a
blanket to avoid spoilage.  I keep my "cask" set-up for weeks like this
without problems.  I haven't paid any attention to it because no beer has
soured in two years of doing this.  I have a steam beer on now thats been
there for four weeks.  I have never moved a corny off of the handpump until
it's kicked, and maybe that's a good thing....

Cheers!
David Sherfey
Warwick, NY


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:30:23 -0500
From: "John Stegenga" <bigjohns at mindspring.com>
Subject: Scaling up/head retention/type of brewer

Lots of interesting threads in the HBD these days, and one day this 'I'd
brew every day if I could' brewer may indeed look into the RIMS idea, but
for now...

In HBD #3195, Steve Owens discusses 'scaling up'.  This paragraph in
particular scares me...

>    However, I'm loathe to start spending wads of cash on equipment
>(a couple hundred bucks for a burner, a couple hundred bucks for a
>nice, larger pot, probably need a wort chiller at this point, should
>think about going all-grain) without looking at the options.  Should I
>just jump past that to something more elegant, not to mention maybe
>easier to clean?

You spend a couple hundred on a burner?  What you need is something like a
Camp Chef or NewBraunfells turkey cooker/smoker.  Any RING TYPE burner from
100K to 150K btu.  Typical off season price - $70USD.  Then a larger pot.
You can start with a converted keg, or with a large aluminum stock pot,
depending on your price.  You can get a converted keg from sources on the
net for $40-150 (big range, eh?) or you can find a large 15/20 gal aluminum
restaurant stock pot for 60-100.  Stainless steel is also an option (some
say the only one, but we'll not broach that subject), with a 15gal (actually
about 14.6) 'polarware' pot running something like $180...

I mash/lauter with 2 rectangular picnic coolers (Coleman).  They came with
drain holes and so I plumbed one with a 1/2" copper manifold.  Last weekend
our brew club had a brew day and we brewed 15gal of 1.060 IPA in it (30+lb
of grain), and used my 80qt ALUMINUM kettle to boil it.

My mash/lauter setup cost me perhaps a total of $75 including the ball valve
and such.  I use a stopper and a piece of racking cane (bent down to the
bottom) of the sparge (hot liquor tank) cooler to pick up the sparge water.
Leave about a CUP behind when I use it, so there is little water wasted.
So, I'm scaled up.  I can brew up to 15gal at a time (20 if I'm shooting for
a smaller beer ~1.040 and don't mind topping up the fermenters), and my
total costs are $75 for the 2 cooler HLT, Mash/Lauter setup, $95 for the
80qt kettle (shipped to my house), and $90 for the burner.  Oh, another $30
for the 60ft 3/8" Immersion wort chiller...

Now, that said - the wife preferred it when brew day was 2 hours instead of
6, but she really loves the beer so I get away with it as long as I don't
try to brew EVERY week...

In HBD # 3195, Carl Wilson asks:
>Subject: Improving Head Retention - Use Wheat Malt or Flaked Barley?

>I recall reading that to improve the head retention of your brew, that you
>should add either some wheat malt or flaked barley.  Is one preferable over
>the other?  How much should you use?

I have NO problem with head, in either my extract brews, partial mashes, or
all grain.  My all grain batches usually include 5% carapils and my mash
temps usually hit around 155.  That being said, torrified wheat, wheat malt,
and/or flaked barley (unmalted) can help head retention.  But first make
sure that the problem is not your glassware.  Get a disposable plastic cup,
fresh from the bag it came in, and pour in some of your beer.  If the beer
still has head after 5 minutes, you probably have dishwasher soap that has
'sheeting action', i.e. it coats the glasses with something that kills
surface tension - like Jet Dry does.  Rinse the HELL out of your glasses
after they come out of the dishwasher with the hottest water you can handle.
3 or 4 vigorous rinses.  then let them drip dry.

Now, if that does not help your head retention problem, add 1lb wheat malt
(or 6% of grist) to your beer, replacing the same amount of barley malt.
Any more and the wheat flavor might be noticed.

John Stegenga
AKA Bigjohn
Bigjohn's Basement Brew house
Woodstock, GA
(quite some distance south of Jeff Renner)







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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:59:32 -0600
From: "Dan Senne" <dsenne at intertek.net>
Subject: Comments on bad batch?

Can anyone offer any opinions of why my latest pale ale is a major
disappointment?
Here are the details:

Grain bill:

8 1/2 lbs. Briess 2 row
1/2 lb. Crystal 40L
1/2 lb. Carapils

Mash:

Rest for 15 minutes  at  122F
Infusion boost to 155F and rest for 60 min.
Sparge for about an hour using 158F water

Boil/hops:

1 oz. Perle boiled for 50 min.
1/2 oz. Cascade boiled for 45 min.
1/2 oz. Cascade boiled for 15 min.
1/2 oz. Cascade boiled for 5 min.

Total boil time 60 min.  S.G. was 1.050

Chilled, aerated and pitched 600ml starter of Wyeast 1056.

In primary for 12 days. Transfer to secondary and dry hop with 1/2 oz.
Cascade
for 15 days.

Forgot to take F.G. reading before bottling.
After 2 weeks, it's well carbonated, but the taste is not good. I was aiming
for something in between Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and Liberty Ale, but shot
way wide of either one.
I've had good luck with all my previous batches, and all have been quite
drinkable after two 2 weeks (although they did improve with age). My other
batches have all been pretty lightly hopped, usually with Mt. Hood.  Do
hoppier brews need to condition longer to mellow out?
This was the first time I've used Perle or Cascade.  I can't quite put my
finger on what is wrong tastewise, but it's definately not good. I can drink
a glass, but it's not very enjoyable. Wouldn't an infection render it pretty
much undrinkable?
Any constructive comments welcome,
Dan Senne


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:37:40 -0600
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Livin' in da UP

Hi Everybody,
In lieu of starting any long-winded discussions of the thermodynamic 
stability of mash in my tun (note the crudely placed sarcasm), I thought 
I'd pass along an interesting link.  We've had a couple questions about 
pickled eggs.  Some interesting approaches to making your eggs 
"peelable".  We've also had a request or two for recipes.

Now, I can remember living in Michigan's Upper Peninsula we used to joke 
about heading to the local watering hole for "steak and eggs" 
breakfast.  This was just an excuse to go to a bar and eat jerky ("steak"), 
pickled eggs (the eggs part) and start drinking beer at ridiculous hours of 
the morning.

Of course, this was when Leinenkugel's was "cheap beer".  No joke, it was 
cheap and was considered the swill on campus at Michigan Tech (we more 
refined folks drank Stroh's).  Look at Jake now, livin' high on the hog 
makin' Microbrew.

Anyhow, back to the steak and eggs....here's a recipe site that may be 
useful for some of the pickled egg types out there.....
http://zephyr.rice.edu/department/students/lemaux/peggs.html
Oh yeah, the B&B was one of those places we could go for "steak and eggs".

Later.


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 05:43:30 -0800
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: re: installing valve in aluminum kettle

patrick,

>i want to install a ball valve on the 15 gal aluminum kettle i use for
>boiling wort.
<snip>
>i've looked through the hbd archives and found one description posted
>regarding installation of a valve from years ago. nonetheless, i
>thought i'd bring this up again to see what opinion any of you might
>have regarding this.

This is how I handled the drain on my brew pot.
I'm a 5 gallon batch brewer and use 3/8" copper
tubing for my transfers.  This works quite well for
this size batch and would probably serve well for
10 gallons as well.  Larger than that that would
probably take too long the transfer the liquid to
the fermenter

My brew pot is a large (60 qt) aluminum stock pot,
similar to a Volrath, just not that specific brand.
It was a b-day gift from my XYL a couple of years back.

I drilled and tapped a hole for 1/4"NPT in the pot about
1/2-1" up from the bottom.

There is a modified brass ball valve on the outlet.  To
modify the valve to accept a 1/4"NPT I soldered a bushing
into a copper T fitting.  The bushing is flared and needs
to be drilled with a 1/2" drill bit to remove the flared
do not cut deeply enough into the bushing to provide a
liquid tight seal.  Screw a 1/4"NPT nipple into the
bushing and solder it.  This will provide a tight seal.
Heat the T fitting to loosen the soldered and remove the
bushing/nipple assembly (it was soldered into the T so
that the T could be clamped in a vice while drilling/
tapping/soldering).

Solder this assembly into the ball valve.  Screw the
modified ball valve into the hole in the brew pot.  Make
it good and tight, BUT be VERY CAREFUL not to over tighten
it as is could strip (there are only about 2 thread cut
in the pot).  The end of the nipple will be protruding
into the brew pot far enough so that a 1/4"NPT fitting
can be securely fastened.  On the inside of the pot I have
a 1/4"NPT x 3/8" compressing fitting.  I attach my pick-up
to the compression fitting.

The outlet of the ball valve can accept any of the many
1/2" sweat fittings, I've just never been able to locate a
1/4"NPT x 1/2" sweat.  One fitting that is very handy is
the 1/2" sweat x 3/8" compression.  You might have to look
for this at the larger stores (I found mine at Home Depot).

I have modified 2 pots in this way (a total of 3 holes)
and none have leaked, YMMV.  If you are the anal retentive
type, you might also consider adding an o-ring or some other
sort of gasket material on the inside of the brew pot (over
the nipple and between the pot and whatever fitting you place
on the nipple).

Good luck,
John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200



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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:47:36 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Carbs and barbs

Steve Owens asks about fad diets...

>Now since Atkins himself brings up the topic of ketosis and claims
>that it's not a risk in this situation (basically, ketosis is a
>usually symptom of Very Bad Things, but in this situation it's a
>symptom of Good Things), the situation seems reduced to a series of
>"Yes it is/No it's not" claims.  It would be nice to see some
>qualified medical person actually refute Atkins' claims instead of
>waving their hands and dismissing it.

Steve, this topic came up within the last year or so. I participated in some
off-line discussions on this issue but some of it made it onto the HBD so
try searching the archives. If what you find there doesn't help you out
e-mail me and I'll cc you some of the discussions that I saved...
                              ------------
Dave Burley takes me to task for questioning his credibility:

>Alan, you don't have to believe me,
>but I'd appreciate your keeping personal
>opinions as to my credibility to a
>non-public arena.

I will agree to do so only if you agree to stop posting so many definitive
statements on subjects you clearly don't have a handle on!

>If I am wrong, I will
>be more than happy to admit it if you
>or others can provide the evidence.

I've seen precious little evidence in your past behavior to indicate that
this is true.

 -Alan Meeker
  Baltimore, MD




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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:51:34 EST
From: "Gary Barbatelli" <garybarbatelli at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re; Head Retention; Cask Breathers

I've used both wheat malt and flaked barly, as well as flaked wheat,
with good results. Flaked barley can tend to throw a chill haze. If that is 
an issue, then use it in darker beers.(Haze or no haze-all the same with me 
as long as the beer tastes good!) I don't know what the recommended amounts 
are. I guess that depends on the style your brewing. A good starting point 
is probably 5% of the grist

There has been comments about CAMRA's stand on cask breathers in recent 
posts that I feel are inaccurate. For about the last 2 years or so CAMRA's 
official stand on cask breathers has sofened to the point that they condone 
its use on slow selling beers. Some of the individual branches still take a 
hard line but the official national policy has changed.                      
                                                                             
             Cheers,
                                                Gary Barbatelli
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:37:49 PST
From: "Dic Gleason" <dicgleason at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Lunacy

This is from my brother at the the Southworth Planetarium, U of So. Maine

What's the big deal?
This next full moon will be the biggest and brightest full moon in
living memory. It will occur on December 22, the date of the 1999
winter solstice. Why is it the biggest and brightest? We'll take this one in 
steps.
The moon is full whenever it is on the opposite side of the Earth
with respect to the sun. We therefore see the moon's entire illuminated half 
and it appears as a full circle in our sky. Despite popular opinion to the 
contrary, the moon is NOT generally
closest to us when it's full. The moon is at its least distance from
the Earth during one revolution when it is at its Perigee point.
The period between successive perigees -called an anomalistic
month- is approximately 27.5 days long. The period between succesive new 
moons-called a synodic month- is approximately 29.5 mean solar days.
So, you can see that the moon is not usually at perigee when it is
full. The time spans separating lunar phases and perigee points are not in 
sync. This doesn't mean, however, that the full moon can NEVER be at 
perigee.  In fact, on the 22nd, the moon will be at opposition
and perigee on the same day.
Moreover, the perigee distance is not constant from one month to the next. 
It varies. It just so happens that the December perigee point will be closer 
than any other this year.
So, to summarize: this full moon will be quite close to the Earth
and will be, consequently, quite large.  It will be 14% larger than
when it is at apogee -its greatest distance.
BUT, that's not all!
The Earth and moon are approaching perihelion -the point in Earth's
orbit which is closest to the sun. perihelion will occur on January
3rd. The sunlight striking the moon will be 7% stronger than now than it 
would be if we were at aphelion.So, we'll have a large moon subjected to 
strong sunlight. 1866 was the last time in which we've had the full moon at 
perigee on the winter solstice!
Seems like a great reason to have some friends over and brew/enjoy beer.

Dic Gleason
So. Korea

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:10:05 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Scaling Up - The Next Step? 

Steven,

I'd say go for the all-grain thing.

You can get an 8 gallon (33 quart) "ceramic on steel" pot for maybe
$25 at a discount store.  This will let you do full volume boils.

A 5 or 10 gallon "Gott" (Rubbermaid, Igloo) cooler makes a fine mash
tun.  About $40 for the 10 gallon size, if you look.  I made a
"manifold" for mine out of copper tubing.  It might have cost me $10
in parts, probably less.

And then you need a chiller.  Buy a 50 foot coil of 3/8 inch tubing,
use some of it for the sparge manifold. and coil the rest into an
immersion chiller.

Add in some hoses, assorted fittings (so you can hook your chiller to
the faucet) for maybe another $5?

Your biggest expense may be a new burner, if your stove is just too
wimpy to boil 6 gallons of wort.  I use my gas stove with no problem.
If you've got an electric stove, you may need to buy a burner ($60?)

Add 'em up.  Without the burner, you can get into all grain brewing
for under $100.  Depending on your ingredient cost, you'll probably
save that much in 10 batches.  Grain, if you don't buy it in little 1
or 5lb baggies at the brew store, is lots cheaper than malt extract.

Quick comparison, ignoring shipping costs, assuming you can buy
locally...

St. Pats of Texas (www.stpats.com) sells 6lbs of (liquid) malt extract
for $12-13.  This is about enough to make a batch of pale ale.  If
you're buying cans now, you might be paying up to $20 for the extract
for one batch of beer.  (E.g., $12 for 4lbs of Coopers liquid malt
extract plus $6 for 2 more lbs of dry malt extract.)

They sell 10lb of Briess pale ale malt for about $8 (more or less,
depending whether you want it crushed).  This is also enough to make a
batch of pale ale.  So that's $4-10 per batch saved.  However, if you
buy a 50lb sack, it's only $33, or about $6/batch, for a savings of
$6-12 per batch.

Yes, you pay for it in your time, but that's the fun part. :-)



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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:17:28 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Calories/PID 

>>>>> "AJ" == AJ  <ajdel at mindspring.com> writes:

    AJ> With all the discussion of calories in beer I thought you all
    AJ> might be interested in the way in which calories are
    AJ> calculated for beer. It's simply

    AJ> kcal/100grams beer = 6.9A + 4(B-C)

    AJ> where A is the % alcohol by weight (0.79ABV), B is the real
    AJ> extract (% by weight i.e. degrees P of the dealcoholized beer
    AJ> made back up to the same volume as the sample) and C is the
    AJ> ash expressed as a percent by weight (this is usually small
    AJ> enough that it can be ignored).

I've seen this formula before, but today I was struck by the fact that
the alcohol caloric density is higher than that of the carbos.  So I'm
thinking "how can this be?"  After all, the yeast has extracted some
energy from the original carbos.  Then I recalled that 1/2 (roughly)
of the mass of the original sugar has escaped as CO2.  So 8 kcal of
sugar turns into 6.9 kcal of alcohol, and the yeast "consume" 1.1kcal
during fermentation.



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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:23:33 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Music to drink Pils by

Brewers

I just heard a delightful little three minute polka for piano, "Souvenir of
Pilsen" (1844) by the 19th century Czech composer Bedrich Smetana.  [Ivan
Moravec, piano (House of Artists, Prague, 12/18/84) (Nonesuch 791462)].
Composed just about the same time as modern Pilsener was being invented.

Just thought other music loving brewers might like to know.

BTW, I heard it on WKAR-FM in Lansing, which streams audio at
http://www.wkar.org.  With fewer and fewer public radio stations
broadcasting classical music, they are getting listeners from all over the
globe.  If your station has gone to all talk, check it out.

Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion about upsidedown reverse
PID RIMS.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:23:10 -0600
From: MVachow at newman.k12.la.us
Subject: scaling up/homebrew shop

Steve inquires about an economical way of scaling up his brew gear.  If
you're convinced that homebrewing is something you'll continue to do, then I
recommend the following.  First, a 100K+ BTU burner.  Your local Home Depot
or Lowe's will sell you one for $40.  These things are nothing special.
Every third family in New Orleans has one to boil crawfish.  They use them
in North Georgia to boil peanuts, in Texas to make chili, in Maine to boil
lobsters, in Michigan for the whitefish fry.  Second a 15-20 gallon pot.
You can pick up a 20 aluminum pot at the Home Depot while you're getting the
burner for  at $120.  A stainless steel pot of the same size will run you more
along the lines of $250.   Another option is to convert a 15 gallon sanke
keg.  If you don't mind scrounging a bit, you can often turn these things up
at salvage yards where they'll let them go for 10 or 20 bucks.    You could
make an immersion chiller as per the kinds of instructions you mention
finding on the web, or buy one.  Get a big one.  At this point, having blown
 at $200 (assuming the aluminum pot here), you'd be ready to brew 10-15 gallon
batches of extract beer.  If you want to brew all-grain beers, you'll need a
little extra gear.  The cheapest way to go is to use picnic coolers, either
the cylindrical kind or the rectangular kind.  Pick up two at the KMart--run
you $50 total.  Go back to the Home Depot and get about 4 feet of 1/2" CPVC
pipe  and  some Ts and elbows to build a manifold for the bottom of the mash
unit:   at $8.  The project requires a hacksaw and about 30 minutes.  There are
easy instructions in the Lutzen and Stevens book Brew Ware.  Use the other
picnic cooler as your sparge water tank.  At this point, you've got a
perfectly functional all-grain system (major shortcoming:  a bit of hoisting
of hot liquids), and you've spent about $260.  Best of all, you're brewing
outdoors instead of gumming up your brand new kitchen.  There is also a bit
of perverse pleasure to be found in befuddling Mr. Jones next door who has
to wonder if the new neighbors are setting up a meth lab, and conversely
there is the unadulterated pleasure of dispelling those frightful thoughts
when you hand Mr. Jones a pint of your homebrewed stout.
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Jared inquires about the viability of brew supply shop start-up.  I don't
own a store, just a crank who tries to stay abreast of beer and brewing
industry news.  As you've probably heard, there's lots of noise in the
homebrewing community about community supply shops going out of business and
market power drifting toward big Etail operations.  I think, it's just the
expected shakeout.  The hobby is in decline, but I think the decline is
mainly the leveling off of a fad.  There are plenty of serious homebrewers
left and still plenty of prospective new brewers out there.  I think opening
a supply shop now would follow all the rules of any other small business.
If you did a careful market study, found a good spot, had enough capital to
stock the place well, offer competitive prices and advertise yourself, did
the vast bulk of the labor yourself and put in the time outside business
hours to make connections with clubs, the local craft brewers, etc.  If you
did all of that and were willing to live frugally or had a second income of
some sort, you'd probably have as good a shot as any other small business.

Mike


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