---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Scaling Up-The Next Step ("Jim Bermingham")
  Re: Scaling up ("Sieben, Richard")
  fad diets ("Alan Meeker")
  Cask Ale Breather, Beer Diet ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Names please (Dave Burley)
  Hi protein, low carb diet ("Charles Walker")
  Pat babcock rims page (J Daoust)
  Re: Cask ale from a corny (Lou.Heavner)
  Re: Scaling up-the next step ("Gary Barbatelli")
  More on Burley ("Jason Birzer")
  More steam ("Dean Fikar")
  Hoping to be the first entry! (William Macher)
  5 liter mini kegs (Ted McIrvine)
  Re: Cask Ale Pressure Problem (Jeff Renner)
  Beer Fun (Rod Prather)
  Re: Yeast Attenuation (JDPils)
  Re: Attenuation (Scott Murman)
  Re: Incomplete Starch Conversion (Scott Murman)
  D. Ludwig finally pipes up... (ThomasM923)
  Spam, Atkins, yeast, and so on. (Matt Smiley)
  (no subject) (Treeft1)
  Cask Breathers (Tony Barnsley)
  Cask Breathers (Tony Barnsley)
  Order of Priorities (David Sweeney)
  RE:Propane in the Basement ("Kelly")
  scaling up (Marc Sedam)
  Easier way to make a copper tubing chiller ("Peter J. Calinski")
  HBD Server Fund Salvation! (Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products)
  Propane Indoors ("Robert A. Uhl")
  disappointment (Biergiek)
  Help needed w/ beer engine setup (Paul Kensler)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:25:21 -0600
From: "Jim Bermingham" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com>
Subject: Scaling Up-The Next Step

Steven Owens in HBD#3195 dated 15 Dec, wanted to know what his options were
in building a Homebrew system for about $500.  I would suggest that he visit
Jean-Sebastien and Melanie's Homebrewing Design Pages at:
www.axess.com/users/jsm-mv/brasseurs-mv/homebreweries.html  Jean-Sebastien
and Melanie have one of the largest collections of pictures and descriptions
of Home Breweries to be found on the internet.  Many of the owners of these
Home Breweries are active contributors to the HBD.  E-Mail addresses for the
builders of these Home Breweries are included in some cases.  Steven can see
many different Home Breweries from expensive to not so expensive, and if
interested contact the builder for additional information.

Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:28:17 -0600
From: "Sieben, Richard" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com>
Subject: Re: Scaling up

Steve Owens was looking for the best way to scale up his brewing operations
without spending two arms and two legs.

I expect there will be a lot of replies to this one as there are many ways
to go, and that seems to be part of Steves quandary.  So, everyone can chime
in here as to 'what I did' as examples and Steve can pick and choose what is
best for him.  In that vein, here is what I did.  Starting with my second
batch of beer ever, I went all grain.  My mash tun was made from a 52qt
square picnic cooler ($15) with 1/2" CPVC manifold for a false bottom
(another $5 ).  I already had a 25' immersion chiller, but I made a 50' one
myself after seeing how the 25' one was made.  25' cost was $40, premade and
my homemade 50' one was about $25, now I use the 25' coil as a prechiller in
a bucket of ice water that then runs into the 50' chiller, which has kept my
chilling time to as little as 15 minutes for 12 gallons of boiling wort to
pitching temp.  Since my first extract batch, I already had a 33qt enamle
pot and a 21qt enamle pot, both of which could be used for heating
decoctions or hot water as needed.  I got an old jam kettle, holds 10
gallons,  from my mother's garage(thought it was copper, but it was just a
tin kettle and was copper clad, for free, so I used that to heat water in on
my gas grill)   I was still making 5 gallon batches at this point, but soon
found I could make double batches of regular gravity beer and high gravity
was possible by adding some extract to the boil.  A few years later, I added
a converted keg, ($65, and yes you can do it cheaper yourself) with a
stainless steel ball valve attached ($55) and a dip tube with stainless
steel screen ($30) and a Camp Chef 30,000 btu burner ($83).  Now I could
easily make 12 gallon batches, 11 into fermentors and 1 for pressure canning
for yeast starters and priming sugar.  (well ok, the pressure canner was
really a brewery purchase at $65, but you can get spousal buy in to that
because it is technically a 'kitchen ware'.  Oh, and while I am at it, the
gas grill I mentioned earlier, well brewing was the true motive for asking
for a nice sized gas grill for Fathers day.  The grill is 35,000 btu and the
oval jam kettle fits on it perfectly!  Also the grill has a 8000 btu side
burner that does nicely with the pressure canner.  Grill cost was about
$220)

Next I found that these larger batches were a real pain in the ass to
bottle, so I got a kegging system ($170 I think) and an additional 6 kegs
from RCB equipment, which after new gaskets and shipping came to $18 each.
The wife was interested in having new appliances, and the old fridge became
the beer cooler.  I refuse to count the cost of the fridge, that was
happening anyway.  

The latest aquisition has been the RIMS system sold
http://www.advancedbrew.com/ here.  (standard disclaimers, just satisfied
customer) Cost was $975.  I had been considering it for a long time, and it
was really a hard sell as I really liked my results with decoction mashing.
This is something you save for or build yourself, I really liked the
features and am glad I purchased instead of making one from scratch. It's
like a bread machine for beer, you can set it and go do other brewery stuff,
like cleaning equipment and drinking homebrew, or yardwork if the wife is
around that day.  In fact, the first time I used it, I was cutting the lawn
and brewing at the same time.  My wife didn't even know I was brewing that
day until I excused myself after dinner to go chill the beer.  (She said,
'what beer').  This means you don't have to use beer bullets to brew!

You can add up my brewing  expenditures up if you want to, but it has
happened over 5 years of brewing, so it's not as bad as maybe some other
hobbies.

It would be interesting to see what other folks have spent in their brewing
hobby, I am sure there are plenty of good ideas and many will be better than
my own solutions I am sure.

Enjoy the art of expansion!

Rich Sieben
Island Lake, IL


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:15:28 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: fad diets

Steve Owens asks about fad diets...

Steve, If you want more info do a search on the web under "fad diets."
You'll find all the criticisms you'd care to read!

 -Alan Meeker
 Baltimore, MD




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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:17:23 -0800
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com>
Subject: Cask Ale Breather, Beer Diet

So the problem with serving cask ale with a pump is 1) if the head
pressure is too high, the pump leaks, and 2) if the pressure is low
enough, the CO2 flow can't keep up with the pump, which results in
sucking air into the keg (via the top O-ring, I'm guessing).

Why not use an extra corny keg as an expansion chamber?  Hook up the CO2
supply to an empty keg, then connect the "out" to the "in" of the keg
with the cask ale.  Perhaps that extra volume would provide enough of a
buffer zone to maintain a slight level of pressure on the cask during
pumping.  I haven't done any calculations on this, just using horse
sense (which sometimes smells of horsesh**).

Regarding Dave's comments on carbs, metabolism, and so forth, I can
stand idly by no longer-- I'm one of the beer drinkers who has
benefitted from a balanced diet (specifically 40% carbs, 30% protein,
30% fat).  It's the Zone Diet and I was very skeptical of it until I
read the books and tried it out.  I also had hit a plateau despite
weight lifting, aerobic exercise, and very careful eating (no beer,
either!).  A good friend who is a health nut (kind of like a macadamia
nut but bulkier) pointed me this way and I have been reaping great
benefits in new energy levels, fat loss, and even faster gains in
weights.

Genetically and hormonally, we're not all alike, but I haven't heard
from someone who hasn't seriously tried the Zone and found it to be at
least somewhat helpful.

(And, no, I don't have any reference citings other than those in the
back of the books.  If you're really interested in the truth behind it,
why don't you check it out?)

Rick Theiner




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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:43:30 -0500
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Names please

Brewsters,

I agree wholeheartedly with Jeff Renner
that we should sign our correspondence.
I also agree with past comments that we
should also identify our locations in normal
or Rennerian coordiates. However, I
have noted that the latest software
changes ( ?)  apparently have been deleting
my signature and presumably others.
Maybe The Janitors can look into this,
but not if it interferes with their brewing.
- ------------------------------------------------
Keep on Brewin',


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:18:51 -0600
From: "Charles Walker" <charlybill at xpressway.net>
Subject: Hi protein, low carb diet

Hi and Happy Holidays to all!!
  I have been following the posts about a hi pro/low carb diet Vs a hi
carb/low fat diet. What I can say from my experience is that following a
very low fat - high carb diet for 5+ years (with exercise) I battled to keep
from gaining (lost that battle) much less losing lbs. I have switched to the
high pro lower carb way of eating for almost a year now. I can easily
maintain my weight level and have even lost weight and reduced waistline!
All this while taking in more calories, feel better, more energy & stamina!
Just had a full check up with stress test & whole 9 yards, cholesterol was
excellent, especially the good kind (always has been) and triglycerides were
66. If you listen to the Harvard docs, American Heart, etc they say it will
raise those numbers.
  Bottom line is that it works for me. Also that other than the one person
who posted on the HBD, the only negative thing that anyone I know who had
actually tried the diet had to say was it was hard giving up the high carb
foods.
  Now, about BEER - love it, but it does have carbs. Have to practice
moderation.
Charlie
Lancaster, TX

There's more old drunks than there are old doctors so I believe I'll have
another round! Willie Nelson


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:31:19 -0800
From: J Daoust <thedaousts at ixpres.com>
Subject: Pat babcock rims page

I was surfin' through a sea of rims stuff the other day, when I noticed
a site for pbabcock. Either the link was bad or the site had moved, I
could not find it on the eonline site the link pointed to. If anyone
knows where it is, could you send it to me?    Thanks, Jerry Daoust


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:48:04 -0600
From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com
Subject: Re: Cask ale from a corny

     Jeff Renner writes:

      ...But I would like to figure out a way to protect ale for weeks
     under an admittedly non-CAMRA approved blanket of CO2 so I could keep
     it on a hand pump.  You'd need a low pressure, high flow rate system.
     Maybe some kind of meter valve.  Any engineers want to offer help?
     Winning entry will win an invitation to next year's party.


     What is your budget?  and Are the travel expenses paid?  I could care
     less about any of the aforementioned football teams, but I'd love to
     check out Jeff's cellar, especially one of his world renowned CAPs.

     Cheers!

     Lou Heavner - freezedrying in Austin, TX and wanting to move south for


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:44:24 EST
From: "Gary Barbatelli" <garybarbatelli at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Scaling up-the next step

     I know some folks that claim to be photographers.Lots of talk about 
D-max,developement time,shutter speed,film speed,& f-stops. Lots of money in 
equipment. They're not really into photography....
they're into cameras.....BIG difference. Show me a picture.....Lots
of snapshots....not much art.
     Seems like these R.I.M.S. types are all hung up about where to stick 
the thermometer. WHO CARES? What does the beer taste like? If it's good than 
it doesn't matter if the temperture was measured in the inny or the outy or 
someplace in the middle. Invention is the mother of necessity nowadays.
     I got into all grain brewing after trying a couple of stove top partial 
mashes and haven't looked back. Yeah;it costs a few bucks for the equipment. 
The set-up that I use now is a two tier, one burner system built from 
salvaged slotted angle and the burner from a cajun cooker($50) that I used 
Previosly. Two pots...a 6 gallon($75) and a 10 gallon($100), each fitted 
with an EASY MASHER($25 each).If you belong to a club you might be able to 
beg or borrow some of this stuff.A system like this involves some juggling 
of pots but it's not hard to do and the beer tastes good. Less than $500 
with the cost of a basic corny set-up included. It's a system that can grow 
with you too. Add another tier, Pot And Two burners and you eliminate the 
moving and juggling.
                                              Cheers,
                                              Gary Barbatelli(Florida)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:35:05 -0500
From: "Jason Birzer" <longshot at pressroom.com>
Subject: More on Burley

>Exercise during dieting is not to burn extra
>calories as is so often quoted, but to build
>muscle, so that you end up with a higher
>rate of metabolism. Pound for pound, muscle 
>burns three times the calories as the same
>weight of fat. Higher % muscle = higher
>metabolism rate  Weight training is important.
>Just walking or running is not so important to 
>muscle building, although it does not hurt
>to have a healthy cardio-vascular system.

True, but having a healthy cardio-vascular system is probably more
important to good health than more muscle.  It is all in what you
are going for.

>Low carb diets are proven to improve high
>blood pressure, improve adult onset
>diabetes, reduce GURD ( heartburn, reflux),
>and increase stamina, especially among atheletes.

Well, until there are long-term studies that prove that these
things are true, I'll pass.  There hasn't been any 'diet' that
I know of that has held up to the test of time.  The old mantra
still holds:  Eat with variety and not too much and get regular excersise.

And then there's "Whatever works for you".  My girlfriend became
a vegetarian and excersises on a regular basis.  Since then, 
she's been in good health and in the past year has lost 25 pounds.  
This "low carb" diet may work for you, but I wouldn't call it a
magic bullet to cure all.  I still have serious doubts about your 
claims of increased athletic performance.  Carbs are easily burned
by the body, a ready energy source.  Fats are much harder to burn.
I'd even be concerned about muscle loss from that activity.  Maybe
it is the high proten you are burning.

I'm sorry to still bother the list with this, but it still bothers
me...

Jason





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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:28:05 -0600
From: "Dean Fikar" <dfikar at flash.net>
Subject: More steam

I'm afraid I've fallen behind in my reading of the HBD and have just now
read some of the steam injection
discussion with keen interest.  I'd like to comment on of a couple of
things.  A couple of years ago I
rigged up a stovetop steam injection system for a 10 gal. Gott cooler mash
tun. The steam vessel was a 4
qt. pressure cooker I scored for a buck at a garage sale. The steam was
injected into the slotted copper
manifold that I have in the bottom of the Gott.  I used an ice cream maker
motor-powered stirrer during
temperature boosts.  The system worked well and helped me make some really
good beer.  I generally was
able to achieve temp boosts of about 2 degrees F per minute with mash
volumes of 6 to 8 gal.  I have
since abandoned the system in favor of doing no sparge single infusion
mashes which of course require no
temperature boost.  This is because I've dedided that step mashing didn't
gain me anything using today's
well modified malts.

A couple of posters mention that direct injection of steam into the mash is
bad because you might heat
portions of the mash enough to extract tannins.  I don't agree.  After all,
when you decoct a portion of
the mash you're doing the same thing but to an even greater extent.  I did
not notice any astringency
with any of my steam-injected beers, which have included 2 of my 3 medal
winners in the AHA NHC during
the last two years.  As far as I can tell there was not much denaturation of
the enzymes by the steam and
I always achieved efficiencies in the low 80's for normal gravity beers.

As for the noise that someone thought was a bit much I didn't think that it
was that loud, perhaps
because I injected the steam into the bottom of the Gott where it was
muffled by the whole mash.

The only downside to steam for me was that I managed to burn myself a couple
of times by accidently
bumping into the copper tubing carrying the steam.  The burns were
(thankfully) mild.  Needless to say, a
steam injection system should treated with great respect and care but it is
a neat way to do relatively low-tech step mashing, IMO.

Dean Fikar
Fort Worth, TX



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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:49:23 -0500
From: William Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: Hoping to be the first entry!

Hi all,

Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> asks for some ideas. He wants to be able
to hand pump from a keg and have enough low pressure CO2 available to keep
his pump happy.

>But I would like to figure out a way to protect ale for weeks under an
admittedly
>non-CAMRA approved blanket of CO2 so I could keep it on a hand pump.  You'd
>need a low pressure, high flow rate system.  Maybe some kind of meter
>valve.  Any engineers want to offer help?  Winning entry will win an
>invitation to next year's party.

What came to my mind was to use a plastic bag that would be inserted
between the co2 source and the inlet to the keg. All air would be squeezed
out of the bag and it would then be slipped over a piece of tubing coming
out of a tee. The other two connections of the tee would go to the co2
source and the keg. The bag could be any size such as a garbage bag, if
that much volumn is needed. Lines between this bag and the keg would be
sized as needed to get adequate flow.

First, some co2 would flow to purge the lines of O2, then the deflated
plastic bag would be slipped over the copper tubing and held there with a
rubber band, tape, or whatever. The bag would be inflated but not
pressurized. The bag would be somewhat under filled [the material would not
be pulled taunt] so the contents would essentially be at Atmopheric
pressure. CO2 would be drawn as needed at whatever rate was needed. As the
bag deflated, more co2 could be added as needed.

When no more beer was desired, the feed into the keg could be removed and
plugged, the bag deflated or just tossed out, and so on.

Since the bag would simply deflate as co2 was pulled from it, it would
mimic what air normally does in the action of the hand pump and my guess is
that its existance would be totally transparent to the pump.

This is the way I would do it. Very simple, no valves, nothing
exotic...KISS all the way!

Hummmmm...Jeff, could you send that hand pump down this way for testing???
I could through a system like this together in minutes...:-) 

Have fun...dreaming of sipping nectar at the center of the brewing
universe...Bill


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:14:53 -0800
From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: 5 liter mini kegs

5 liter mini kegs were the worst brewing investment I've ever made. 
They leak, the priming directions result in warping, and you'll spend so
much on CO2 cartridges that you could buy 4 large stainless kegs and a
complete CO2 system for the money.

?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Reher_D=EDez=2C_Antonio-Sven=22?= wrote:
> Subject: 5 liter mini kegs
> 
> Has anybody had any experience with these things? I was planning on
> purchasing some, but there seem to be problems with leaking taps and warping
> of the kegs.

- -- 
Dr. Ted McIrvine     McIrvine at Ix.Netcom.Com
College of Staten Island/CUNY

"Music is the hidden arithmetical exercise of a mind unconscious that is
calculating."  


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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:52:20 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Cask Ale Pressure Problem

Thanks to several brewers who made suggestions for keeping a beer engine on
a corny from pulling air through the lid seal.  All suggested some sort of
reservoir oflow pressure CO2 near the gas inlet.

"Hugh Hoover" <hugh.hoover at software.com> suggested:

>taking a tip from electronics, you can add a "CO2 capacitor"
>to your system - add a low pressure container, perhaps just a soda
>bottle, very close to the cask intake.  It's important that the line size
>between this bottle and the cask be as large as possible.

"Neitzke, Arnold" <Arnold.Neitzke at fanucrobotics.com> suggested:

>Try a small trash bag over one of the openings (if there is a spare), so
>with the bag twist tied to an opening, give the keg a shot of co2 to inflate
>the bag but not fully, then as you draw beer the bag deflates putting co2
>into the keg at no pressure, when the bag gets low, another shot of co2 for
>the refill.

William Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com> had a similar suggestion:

>What came to my mind was to use a plastic bag that would be inserted
>between the co2 source and the inlet to the keg


"Martin Brungard" <mabrungard at hotmail.com> suggested:

> a large reservoir in the CO2 system downstream from the
>pressure regulator <snip>
>Possibly one of those stand-alone compressed air tanks that they sell at the
>auto parts stores for filling up flat tires.  <snip>
>You could just hook up a tee fitting to the tank and CO2 low
>pressure line and it should do it for you. You may want to have the auxilary
>tank close to the corney and use larger diameter air line (if possible)
>between the auxilary tank and the corney.

I think that instead of the soda bottle (perhaps too small), the plastic
bag (perhaps hard to keep air out, but nice since it has the atmosphere
pushing on it) or the compressed air tank (extra piece of equipment), I
will try an extra CO2 filled corny in series just before the beer corny, or
use the tee that Martin suggested.  The tee would allow gas flow from the
tank plus the line.

Late breaking news - "Linus Hall" <lnlhall at mindspring.com> made just such a
suggestion:

>Have an  empty corny be a sort of high-volume pressure chamber - charge it
>with CO2 at  the 1-2 psi needed, keeping the regulator hooked up to the
>gas inlet, and hook  its outflow to the gas in on the serving keg.

What a great resource HBD is.  It may be a while before I get to try this
(perhaps Christmas Eve, is the beer engine available, Jason?), but I'll
report back.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:11:17 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Beer Fun

For a little beer pun-ishement, check this out.

http://www.kellys.com/cgi-bin/guessbeer.pl

This is not great humor, but it is fun.
- -- 
Rod Prather


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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:48:37 EST
From: JDPils at aol.com
Subject: Re: Yeast Attenuation

Spencer writes in response to Mike's question about attenuation and yeast:

'Maybe saying "high," "medium," and "low" attenuation is meaningful.
That gives you some information you can use.  But to say that a
yeast's attenuation is "70-75%" is ridiculous.  I can make a wort that
will attenuate to only 50% and another one that will attenuate to 90%
with that SAME YEAST.  (You don't believe the 90% number?  I have a
Belgian-style strong ale that started at 1.080 and ended at 1.008.
'Struth!)'

Spencer can you elaborate on your mash schedule?  I too have pondered this 
question:  How can such a full bodied, large mouth feel, strong beer be so 
well attenuated?  Especially if it is decocted?  Did your Begian Ale contain 
adjuncts?  My thoughts are a combination of mash schedule, volume and type of 
yeast and perhaps some alpha amylase( German Purity Law may not allow it).  I 
am about to brew a Doppelbock and am open to trying something new.

Cheers,



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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:04:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Re: Attenuation


> Maybe saying "high," "medium," and "low" attenuation is meaningful.
> That gives you some information you can use.
>
> Spencer T.

They already do - it's called flocculation.  Goodness knows how the
homebrew yeast providers determined the attenuation numbers they put
on their packages, but it's probably caused untold confusion and
panic.  To know your flocs is to love your flocs.

Here's a comparison - the Fuller's yeast (aka Wyeast 1968) is very,
very floccy and will have trouble attenuating much beyond 70% without
help.  On the other side most wit strains are The Anti-Floccer and
will eat everything in sight and still hang around for awhile just to
look at you through the side of your glass.  It's easy to approach 85%
apparent attenuation with these strains.



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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:08:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Re: Incomplete Starch Conversion


> I had read one famous home brewing author say that he mashes ( infusion
> mash ) for 30 minutes.  He states that  while this may not be the efficient
> use of grain, on a 5 gallon scale the price difference is small.  Other than
> that, is there any problems with an incomplete starch conversion?  Will it
> affect the flavor of my brew?
> 
> John Herman

Just because he's only mashing for 30 min. doesn't mean he has a
problem with starch.  Alpha Amylase will survive to about 170F or so,
and so during the sparge and also sitting in the kettle waiting for
the boil it will still be doing it's work breaking down starch.  This
famous individual is mashing for an hour, he's just doing 30 min. of
it while sparging.



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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 01:10:45 EST
From: ThomasM923 at aol.com
Subject: D. Ludwig finally pipes up...

In last Friday's HBD, Dave Ludwid posted a reply to Ron La Borde's question 
concerning how the temperature of the mash in a RIMS system can be known for 
sure.

"...With a RIMS, you don't know whether you have
homogeneous mash temperature (unless you use a mixer). My SHMS allows
complete control over the mash temp with no question what the mash
temp is and also the temperature boosts are quick and precise..."

A couple of weeks back I mentioned Dave's SHMS system because I felt that it 
addressed some of the shortcomings of a RIMS system. I encourage those of you 
that are interested in RIMS and other related systems to check this guy's web 
page out (modest Dave didn't include his address):

http://www.us.hsanet.net/user/dludwig/webdoc3.htm

Dave has included a bunch of pictures of his system along with construction 
tips and a chart detailing the temperature ramps that this system is capable 
of. Please check 
out this well thought out system.



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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:04:48 -0600
From: msmiley at cardiology.utmb.edu (Matt Smiley)
Subject: Spam, Atkins, yeast, and so on.

I'm sure everybody noticed the spam message at the start of last night's
HBD... Is this paid advertising or did it just slip through the editors?

Regarding the Atkins diet, it works, but you can't do it and drink beer, or
any other alcoholic beverage. The reason that it works is that depriving the
body of carbohydrates forces the liver to manufacture carbohydrates from
non-carbohydrate sources (amino acids and glycerol) using a metabolic
process known as gluconeogenesis. Also, the body must use the other
byproducts of fatty acid metabolism (ketones) as fuel. This is an
inefficient process from an energy cost-benefit perspective, which is why
you seem to be able to consume a lot of calories in fats and proteins and
still lose weight. Deprivation of carbohydrates also reduces the level of
insulin, which is the driving force behind the biochemical processes that
store excess calories as adipose tissue.

A common misconception is that the body burns calories like a furnace,
liberating the maximum thermodynamic value from all sources. This is an
oversimplification. Amino acids (proteins) and lipids (fats) are used for
many non-energy processes in the body, such as manufacturing structural
cellular components, hormones, etc. When the body is forced to make glucose
from proteins and fats, it ends up with much less energy than if the
nutrients were metabolized in the most efficient way. Calories from foods
are calculated by simply burning them in a calorimeter. The human metabolism
has much more complex methods of handling them, and these processes
sacrifice efficiency for the sake of versatility.

Here's why the Atkins diet doesn't work for beer drinkers. First and
foremost, beer contains carbohydrates and good homebrew in particular is
loaded with them. So, you say, why not switch to pure grain ethanol which
has no intrinsic carbs? You can't do that either, because the liver inhibits
most other metabolic processes (including gluconeogenesis) while
metabolizing ethanol. If you drink and try to do a low-carb diet, you'll
just get hypoglycemic and feel like crap. Your liver needs to be free to
metabolize your fats and proteins into ketones and glucose in order for
weight loss to occur with the Atkins diet.  If you quit drinking altogether
and follow the high-protein, no-carb rule precisely, you will go into
dietary ketosis (a perfectly safe and natural state), lose weight fast and
feel fine. If you try to add alcohol, however, you'll stay fat and have no
energy. If you can't give up drinking, just cut out all refined sugars
(sucrose and fructose) which trigger more insulin release. You may not lose
a lot of weight, but you will maintain what you have.

And now a beer question for you yeast geeks out there. I have two house
brews that I'm trying to perfect. One is a high-gravity (1.080) India Pale
Ale, and the other is a Doppelbock of similar strength. My problem is that
my standard ale yeasts seem to poop out at about 1.030. Does anyone know of
a good yeast for each of these types of beer that can handle high-gravity?
Or maybe I just need to make a big starter? Any suggestions would be
appreciated.


Matt M. Smiley
Port Bolivar, Texas, on the scenic Redneck Riviera
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Beer - the cause of (and the solution to) most of life's problems."
- -- H.J. Simpson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
msmiley at utmb.edu



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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 02:17:44 EST
From: Treeft1 at cs.com
Subject: (no subject)

I use a Bruheat bucket as a HLT.  Should my dryer circuit (240V) which I run 
it off have GFIC protection?



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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:43:40 -0000
From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk>
Subject: Cask Breathers

Hi All,

Now this may sound strange coming from a 'Limey' but Just how do you
implement a cask breather with a Corny Keg? Now I know how the things work,
(just like a regular SCUBA demand Valve), but its in the implementation that
I have no experience, and I don't want to lay out the cash before finding
out.

DO I simply splice the thing into my Gas line and leave the regulator set to
20psi? or do I have to turn the pressure down to the much quoted ~1psi? If
that's the case what's the bloody point of using a cask breather, may as
well open the cask to air, use the hand pump and then repressurise when
finished drinking for the night. (If I'm capable of remembering do that :> )

- --

Wassail!

The Scurrilous Aleman
Schwarzbad Lager Braueri, Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Reply To Aleman At brewmaster Dot demon Dot co Dot uk


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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:12:54 -0000
From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk>
Subject: Cask Breathers

Oh yeah, just kidding about the 20psi! Normally use around 10

- --



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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:55:38 -0600
From: David Sweeney <David at stulife2.tamu.edu>
Subject: Order of Priorities

I just received my copy of George Fix's of: Principles of Brewing Science,
Second Edition [Paperback] 
By: George J. Fix (Amazon,  $23.96).  In the introduction, he lays out a set
of priorities for brewing beer and rates them as primary, secondary and
tertiary. The number one priority if fermentation.

With all the talk about RIMS, mashing, grain mills, and other assorted
gizmos and material to make sweet wort, we haven't talked about fermentation
in a while.

I just finished my two-tier RIMS brewery and now my attention is turning to
fermentation.  What is the most common home brewer technique for maintaining
fermentation temperatures?  We did have some talk about converting
refrigerators a while back.  I live in Texas, so some form of refrigeration
is necessary.  I'm tired of brewing ONLY ales.  Give me wisdom, or at least
a decent homebrew.

David Sweeney
Adaptive Technology Services
Texas A&M University


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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:53:41 -0600
From: "Kelly" <kgrigg at diamonddata.com>
Subject: RE:Propane in the Basement

Well, it is understandable....maybe he was wanting to make sure that if the
world indeed did come to an end New Years 2000, that he could at least still
homebrew that weekend......

Kelly

A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention,
With the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.
- ------------------------------------------
You Said:
 -Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:37:55 -0400
 -From: kathy/jim <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
 -Subject: Propane in basement

 -Hope folks noticed the article about the Michigan citizen
 -dutifully preparing for Y2K, stored propane in his
 -basement and blew away his house.

 -This issue has been discussed ad naseum in previous
 -HBD's, but, did we really take the hazard seriously?

 -cheers, jim booth



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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:48:59 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: scaling up

Ahhh.  A subject near to my heart.  Here's how I did it
cheaply.  Prices decrease the more you're willing to
scrounge.

1)  7.5 gallon bucket with spigot and lid ($16 from a local
HB store)
2)  Cajun cooker *with* 8 gallon aluminum kettle ($90 at
Lowe's/ Home Depot)-- they sell different kinds of Cajun
cookers, but make sure you find the one with the largest
pot.  This kills your cooker and pot needs all at once, and
you never know when you'll want to fry a turkey.  Trust
me...you'll want to.
3)  Phil's 10" Phalse bottom (~$15, HB shop)
4)  assorted fittings, tubing, etc as necessary ($5-$10)

If you hate the thought of brewing in aluminum, Stout
Billy's in Portsmouth, NH (no affiliation, blah, blah, blah)
had some 7.5 gallon SS pots for ~$70 last year.  Don't know
if he still has them, but I picked one up as well as a used
3 gallon keg last year for a song.
http://www.stoutbillys.com.  If you visit, make sure to hit
the Portsmouth Brewery across the street and have a pint of
fresh Old Brown Dog.  Yum!  I managed to boil 7 gallons of
wort in this pot on regular gas (and electric) stoves and it
works.  Not exactly fast, but you can do it.

That's it.  I've mashed up to 20 lbs of grain in the bucket
system and get clear wort quickly.  Fire up the kettle and 5
gallons are easy.  Using high-gravity brewing, 10 gallons is
a snap as well.  Or, my favorite hybrid, no-sparge brewing
will land you five gallons each of two different beers for
the small investment of an extra 90 minutes of time.  Keep
it simple and you'll have some coin to buy the sexy
accoutrements later.

Cheers!
Marc


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Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:16:50 -0500
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Easier way to make a copper tubing chiller

There have been a number of posts lately about using copper tubing to make
chillers.  When I made mine, I saved myself a lot of bending and possible
kinking by taking advantage of the way the tubing was packaged.  

When I bought the tubing at Home Despot, it was packaged as a double coil. 
You can picture that they coiled it by laying it on a surface and coiling
it inward toward the center until half the length was coiled.  Then they
jumped up one tubing diameter and coiled it back out.  When I considered
trying to uncoil this and then wrap it around a paint can or other form, it
seemed like a lot of work.  Instead, with the help of another person, we
each held the outer most turn and backed away from each other.  The coil
stretched apart like an accordion.  When we were about 12 to 15 inches
apart (about the depth of 5 gallons in my boil pot) we stopped.  The result
is an hour glass shaped wort chiller.  At the base it is the full diameter
of the original coil.  It then spirals up making smaller and smaller
diameter turns until the smallest diameter coil at the mid height.  Then it
spirals out again to the largest diameter.  Easy to make, no need to unwrap
the packed coils and minimal risk of kinking.  In addition, because of the
hour glass shape, I believe it is more efficient at cooling since each coil
has a larger volume of wort surrounding it.

Other details:

To make it easy to connect to the water line. I uncoiled part of the bottom
turn and ran it up along the side to the top of the chiller.  Then both the
inlet and outlet are at the same end.

In order to keep it from returning to its original shape I used three
pieces of #14 house wire (insulation removed) and soldered them from turn
to turn, about 120 degrees apart around the coil.

I have a *.jpg photo if anyone is interested.  Just request it via email.

	 pcalinski at iname.com

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:56:42 -0500
From: Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products at humphreypc.com
Subject: HBD Server Fund Salvation!

>From #3196:
>>>
  Special 2-A
50k Targeted Mailing
$999.75 Per Month
$175.00 Setup
<<<

Gee, if the folks who persist in violating the "Crass Commercialism"
guideline ( you know - those off-topic shills for whatever they're hawking
 - ask Skotrat for details!) would cough up some funds at the above rates,
the Fund oughta be sitting pretty.  For the HBD "8K Targeted Mailing", that
works out to almost 2000 bucks per year! And with NO setup fee!  And, we'll
even throw in a set of Ginsu knives!  Send that check today!!!

Mark in Kalamazoo



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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:22:52 -0700 (MST)
From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl at austinc.edu>
Subject: Propane Indoors

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, jim booth wrote:
> 
> Hope folks noticed the article about the Michigan citizen
> dutifully preparing for Y2K, stored propane in his
> basement and blew away his house.
> 
> This issue has been discussed ad naseum in previous
> HBD's, but, did we really take the hazard seriously?

What exactly is the danger of a small (i.e. barbecue-sized) container of
propane?  I ask because I have one stored in my flat in a closet and I
would hate to burn the place down.  I always store it with all valves
closed and hoses disconnected, well away from heat sources &c.

Bob Uhl



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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:43:07 EST
From: Biergiek at aol.com
Subject: disappointment

>Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:59:32 -0600
>From: "Dan Senne" <dsenne at intertek.net>
>Subject: Comments on bad batch?
>Can anyone offer any opinions of why my latest pale
>ale is a major disappointment?
>
>S.G. was 1.050 Chilled, aerated and pitched 600ml
>starter of Wyeast 1056.

Dan, my guess is that you underpitched.  From what
I can tell now, most of my beer disappointments of
the past were related to not pitching a large
enough yeast mass.  A target pitching rate for ales
is about 1E6 cells/ml/degree P. 5 gallons is
approximately 19,375 ml, 50 gravity is roughly
12.5P, meaning you would want to pitch
(1E6 X 19375 X 12.5) = 2.4E11 cells.  A way to
estimate the starer size required to grow this
many yeast cells is that 50E6 cells can be grown
up from 1 ml of starer wort.  So your starter
size should have been about (2.4E11 / 50E6)
= 4800 ml.  Based on this you underpitched by
about 800%... just a thought, I may be wrong.

Kyle
Bakersfield, CA

 - boldly predicting a Pac 10 Victory in the Rose


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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:53:33 -0600
From: Paul Kensler <Paul.Kensler at cyberstar.com>
Subject: Help needed w/ beer engine setup

With all the talk lately of cask beer and hand pumps, I hope someone might
have experience with the most perplexing obstacle I'm facing:

Where and how do you mount your beer engine?

The model I'm looking at is a standard "clamp-on" type that is intended to
clamp onto a bar.  Not having a bar, the nearest suitable surface would be a
large table in my brew area, near the modified chest freezer I use for my
current draft setup.  My concern is that since the draft line outside the
freezer and the pump itself would be at room temperature, the beer inside
would spoil and turn sour.  I don't drink much, my normal habits would make
me expect to have 2-3 pints a week, meaning that there wouldn't be a lot of
volume being moved through the pump and lines.

Does anyone with a beer engine have experience with beer spoilage?  I have
had small amounts of beer inside a gas line spoil before, so I really don't
want to ruin a beer engine the same way.

Ideally, I would like to devise a way to install the engine so that the
entire pumping mechanism is inside the chest freezer and therefore
refrigerated.  Admittedly I'm no mechanical genius, but I can't figure out a
way to clamp the engine securely while still able to open the chest freezer.


Thanks,
Paul Kensler


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---