---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Carbonation (William Frazier)
  re: ramping up, burners ("Mike DeHart")
  Tannins (AJ)
  Re: False bottom design (Susan/Bill Freeman)
  RE: 3 Container Cask Ale System ("S. Wesley")
  Georgia Alcohol Restrictions, Related Legislation ("Mark Nelson")
  Re: Yeast Profiles ("Glen Pannicke")
  Fad Diets ("Glen Pannicke")
  RE: Carbonation level (Robert Arguello)
  diets & eggs (with a beer chaser) (Bob Devine)
  US state beer laws (Bob Devine)
  Re: Carbonation level (Jeff Renner)
  SS Chiller/Beer and Nutrition (SW) Mike Pensinger" <mpensing at deyo.navy.mil>
  Propane (Tom Clark)
  Steam injection and tannin extraction ("Dean Fikar")
  Beautiful San Fran once again ... ("Alan McKay")
  Re: Oxygenator regulator ("Brian Dixon")
  Classical music and Beer (Cave)
  Musical brewers (Pat Babcock)
  RE: Controlling Fermentation Temperature (LaBorde, Ronald)
  RE: beer/alcohol regulations (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Kettle drain system ("Doug Moyer")
  re: beer/alcohol regulations ("Doug Moyer")
  source for SS washers? (patrick finerty)
  Mead (Ballsacius)
  Mash Efficiency (DawgDoctor)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 07:07:46 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Carbonation

Bruce Carpenter asks about forced carbonation.

I think your English Pale Ale should have a low level of carbonation but
that's only because the English beer that I see Morse drinking on PBS
Mystery always seems to have little or no head.  Also, just the other day I
was reading the British version of the HBD and a couple of fellows were
complaining about a pub that served beer with about 1-inch of head.  They
felt they were being cheated.

With respect to the micro beer with the soda pop bubbles, I think the
quality of the head has more to do with the quality of the beer than with
natural or forced carbonation.  There has been much discussion about how
certain mash regimens can affect head quality.  At home my beers are single
temp infusions with very little in the way of non-malt adjuncts.  After
force carbonation in Corny kegs the beers have Guinness-like heads.  You can
vary the size of the head easily by changing the amount of CO2 added.  I
happen to like a big, foamy head so I carbonate with 20 psi to start.  If
this creates too much foam (like a whole glass) I bleed the pressure back to
about 8 psi.

Regards,

        Bill Frazier
        Johnson County, Kansas

  


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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 06:56:17 -0500
From: "Mike DeHart" <dehart at localnet.com>
Subject: re: ramping up, burners

I noticed mention of the burners in many of the follow up posts in the =
ramping up discussion.  I just purchased a twin 30,000 btu Camp Chef =
burner (with legs) from dsports.com (blah blah...) for $99 - that 20% =
discount coupon that they send in the mail and hand out at Dick's =
sporting goods, free shipping.  So $79 net.  I have used a friends in =
the past and it works great for my brewing.  I did have some trouble =
with their on line ordering, but a call to their customer service # =
(only a 1 minute hold) got it ordered.

Being my first post (long time lurker) I would like to thank all of the =
contributors for increasing my brewing knowledge/quality.

Mike DeHart
A half day drive through another country from Jeff Renner (Buffalo, NY)


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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:56:46 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Tannins

Bob  <pbsys at pbsbeer.com> wrote:
>When you decoct you're taking only the thickest part of the mash and
have a
>low liquid to grain ration.
>Tanin is extracted in a high liquid to grain ratio causing astringency.

While a high liquid to grain ratio may cause more tannins to be
extracted it is nevertheless true that appreciable tannins are extracted
during the boils of decoction mashes. One of the reasons for lagering is
to give these tannins time to complex with proteins and precipitate. The
beer becomes smoother as lagering progresses for this reason. Note that
the lower pH of the decoction mitigates tannin extraction somewhat. Even
so, my decocted beers have polyphenols typically 5 times those of
undecocted beers as they come out of the fermenter.  It just occurs to
me that I've never measured after a full lagering period. I must try
that.



- --
A. J. deLange
Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.



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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:32:47 -0600
From: Susan/Bill Freeman <potsus at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: False bottom design

Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:28:59 +0000
From: "J. Doug Brown" <jbrown at labyrinth.net>
Subject: false bottom design - any experience out there?

Doug,

I used the following 304 stainless sheet purchased from McMaster-Carr:

hole dia: 0.125  Open % area:  guage: 14   C to C spacing: 3/16
staggered  McMaster part # 9358T461 on page 263 of the catalog.  Look
under "perforated metal and plastic" .

I used stainless bolts and washers purchased from Lowe's as stilts to
raise the false bottom off the botom of the mashtun.  I don't think you
want to go much larger in hole size as there is quite a bit of "grits"
passed through this size already.  Enough so that the "grits" on
occasion will clog solenoid valves and pumps if you are using fractional
mag drives.

Picture is of the completed false bottom for a 15 gallon Volrath stock
pot.  You will find that you need to fit the false bottom to your
particular pot and mark the direction where it fits best as all pots are
not created round even though they look that way.

http://www.brewrats.org/hwb/er/er07.jpg

Hope this helps.  Cheers Elder Rat aka Bill Freeman - Birmingham, AL


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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:20:10 -0500
From: "S. Wesley" <WESLEY at MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Subject: RE: 3 Container Cask Ale System

From: S. A. Wesley
RE: 3 Container Cask Ale System

In HBD #3198-18 Bruce Garner suggested using a three container system 
in which a corny filled with CO2 would replace the beer drawn from a 
serving keg with gas, and draw in water from a third container open to 
the air.  In some ways this is a very clever idea, but there are two 
potential problems I can see with it.  First the CO2 gas will 
dissolve into the water in the second corny so the gas cushion will 
disappear over time. The water will essentially become carbonated 
over time.  This may or may not be a problem depending on whether or 
not the beer continues to evolve gas to replace the CO2 which 
dissolves in the water.  You could, of course just keep an eye on the 
amount of water in the corny and replace dissolved gas from a tank as 
needed.  The other concern is sanitation because of the fact that the 
water is open to the air and might act as a source of contamination.


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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:44:32 -0500
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: Georgia Alcohol Restrictions, Related Legislation

With Georgia newly on his mind, Larry wrote:

>Having just moved to Georgia from California, I'm trying to come
>to grips with the restrictive alcohol laws here and wondering if
>any of you GA brewers are aware of efforts to change the legislation.

There is an effort underway to change the restrictions on the alcohol
content of beer.  Georgia is currently at a 6% abv limit, and we hope to
either have the limit removed, or add a category of "beer" that can be above
that limit to cover "specialty beers".  We're hoping to do the latter
without needing to change tax structures or labeling requirements, btw.

Anyone who is interested can contact me through menelson at mindspring.com  We
have a website at www.beerinfo.com/worldclassbeer if you're interested in
visiting.

Larry, you can also visit www.beerinfo.com/atlbeer for a site devoted to
Atlanta-area beer attractions.  www.tacomac.com is probably the best beer
bar in town, with three locations that are owned by a beer nut.  (There are
other owners who aren't as beer nutty and their locations aren't as good
beerwise.)  The newest Taco Mac has over 200 taps, and can be found north of
Atlanta on the Alpharetta Autobahn (aka GA-400) in Cumming.

Ale Atlanta, a beer appreciation type club, meets at the Sandy Springs Taco
Mac once a month to drink beers unavailable in the state.  We call the
affair Beer Journeys, and focus on beers folks bring to the meeting from
their out of state travels.  First Thursdays of every month.

Mark Nelson
Atlanta GA





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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:54:01 -0500
From: "Glen Pannicke" <gpannicke at email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast Profiles

On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 12:34:10 EST Headduck at aol.com asked:

>Is there a comparative list somewhere that shows what Wyeast yeasts
>correspond to what to what White Labs yeasts.  For example is White Labs WLP
>001, California Ale Yeast and Wyeast 1056 American Ale the same strain?

White Labs WLP001 and Wyeast 1056 are both of the Ballantine/Chico strain.  So
are Siebel BRY-96, BrewTech CL-10 and Yeast Labs A02.  Information was
obtained from "An Analysis of Brewing Techniques" by G. Fix (for those of you
who want %$# at ! references).  Fix's book has a nice section on yeasts, but is
by no means a definative list.  You would have to check with the suppliers to
determine the exact yeast bank strain sources.

As for how *closely* related they are, that is another story since different
yeasts are known to mutate in liquid and agar storage at different rates and
in different manners.  But they should be close enough for homebrew ;-)

Glen


================================
Millstone Alehouse
alehouse at homepage.com
http://alehouse.homepage.com
================================



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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:54:00 -0500
From: "Glen Pannicke" <gpannicke at email.msn.com>
Subject: Fad Diets

On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 16:56:34 GMT mikey at swampgas.com (The Artist Formerly Known
As Kap'n Salty) wrote:

>AND I feel great --  with STAMINA to spare! Literally. The
>garage is overflowing with boxes of my excess stamina, which I'll
>gladly send anyone for postage.

Mike,

I'd like a box or two for the next time I clean up after attempting a Belgian
decoction mash.  I never knew I could create such havoc using only 3 tuns, a
ladle and a strainer!  Thank God for (soon-to-be) spousal support!

And now, back to our regularly scheduled beer...

Glen

================================
Millstone Alehouse
alehouse at homepage.com
http://alehouse.homepage.com
================================



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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:12:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com>
Subject: RE: Carbonation level

On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:34:48 -0600
Bruce Carpenter asks:

<Does force carbonated beer produce larger, and a
<less "smooth" head? I tried an IPA at a micro recently and the carbonation
<seemed almost soda fountain like. Any thoughts?


Absolutely not! I force carbonate every beer that I brew and the foam is
almost merinque-like with lots of Belgian lace. 

Quality of foam and retention is a result of ingredients and mashing
techniques, not a result of method of carbonation. Large bubbles, (popcorn
foam), can also appear in a beer when it has aged past its peak.


 
********************************************************************     	
Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com>
Corny kegs - ProMash Brewing Software
http://www.calweb.com/~robertac
********************************************************************


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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:01:43 -0700
From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: diets & eggs (with a beer chaser)

msmiley at cardiology.utmb.edu (Matt Smiley) writes:
> Here's why the Atkins diet doesn't work for beer drinkers. First and
> foremost, beer contains carbohydrates and good homebrew in particular is
> loaded with them. So, you say, why not switch to pure grain ethanol which
> has no intrinsic carbs? You can't do that either, because the liver inhibits
> most other metabolic processes (including gluconeogenesis) while
> metabolizing ethanol.

The Atkins diet, and other related no-carb diets, does have
some efficacy in the short term.  But I definitely agree that
it is way over-hyped by its advocates.  Many of the folks behind
it were probably pushing "colloidal vitamins" or other such
silliness before jumping on this bandwagon.  If you eat the
(ab)normal American diet and are overweight, the Atkins diet
might give you a temporary weight loss.  Nearly every long-term
study I've seen shows that the weight comes back.

As Matt writes, the metabolization of food is very complex.  The
simple equation of calories_in = calories_burned for maintaining
stable weight isn't exact.  For example, many street winos consume
an enormous amount of alcohol - thousands of calories a day - but
are gaunt and undernourished.

- --
On peeling hard-boiled eggs:
McGee's "On Food and Cooking" (a great book for a techie cook)
says that peelability is related to pH of the egg white.  A fresh
egg has a pH of about 8.0 but a 3 day old egg is over 9.0.  If the
pH is less below 8.9, the egg's inner membrane tends to adhere to
the shell.  So either use old eggs or take heart that a hard to
peel egg is fresher.

Two suggestions: carefully prick an egg's air space with a pin
or immerse the eggs in ice water (this also lessens the problem of
green yolks caused by ferrous-sulfate).

The April 99 edition of "Cook's Illustrated" has an article on
"The Best Way to Hard-Cook an Egg".  Their instructions are:
1) put eggs in a saucepan, cover with 1 inch of tap water
2) bring to boil over high heat
3) when it hits boil, remove pan from heat, cover, & let sit in
   the hot water for 10 minutes
4) after 10 minutes, place eggs in ice bath for 5 minutes
(www.cooksillustrated.com - the best pure cooking magazine, IMHO)

Hmmm -- fire, air, water, and earth (egg) -- the ancient elements.

The author says that this works on differently powered burners
and produced eggs that had bright yolks and tender whites.

The author also tried every trick in the kitchen to improve
peelability and finally called a person at the "American Egg
Board" who suggested the problem was trying to remove the shell
in large chunks.  An improved method is to crack the shell all
over by rolling the egg and then start peeling from the air-pocket
comp.arch debates... :-))  This trick proved to be the best.

I suspect that Jack Schmidling's suggestion of using a dryer helped
dry the egg which increased the air pocket, plus it aged the egg by
a day which made it more alkaline.  Both do increase the peelability
 ... but at an increased risk of food poisoning.  I'd be cautious.

- --
And now for the beer chaser, in the spirit of holiday cooking, I
added a little bit of a pseudo-Belgian dubbel to my batch of
gingerbread cookies instead of water.  Tasty!

Bob Devine


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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:05:19 -0700
From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: US state beer laws

Larry Maxwell asks about the Georgia state laws:

Look at this web site:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uniform/vol9.html#consb
for the state by state rules for alcohol purchase, consumption, etc.
If the state site has a search capability, try looking for "malt"
because that is often used in the statutes as a generic term for beer.

Yep, the US is filled with a crazy quilt of regulations
controlling alcohol use.  The reason behind the inconsistent
laws is that the overturn of prohibition was a tough sell
and only through a compromise that allowed for state control
did it pass.  Famous story: Bourbon County, TN, is dry.

For example, Georgia's regulations are filled with interesting
loopholes.  For example, in cities with more than 400,000 people
the sale of alcohol on Sundays is different than for smaller
municipalities.  I guess that state's legislators never heard
of a city's population growing...  Some of Atlanta's northern
suburbs may now qualify for this.

This web page has the relevant section on Georgian definitions:

[linebreak added to keep the HBD tools happy....]
http://www.ganet.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/pub/ocode/
ocgsearch?docname=OCode/G/3/1/2&highlight=malt

Surprisingly, it defines a "small beer" as included in the 
group of beers having more than 6% alcohol.

I won't comment on my current state of Utah's laws.



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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 16:26:16 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Carbonation level

Bruce Carpenter <alaconn at arkansas.net> wrote:

>Opinions needed on the suggested carbonation level (high, medium, low) for
>an English Pale Ale with FG of 1.012.

I keep my British style beers on a very low carbonation with maybe 4 psi,
then use a pocket beer engine (introduced to HBD by me many years ago and
subsequently published by Zymurgy).  This is a 5 or 10 cc syringe (an oral
syringe or an oral irrigator) with a small opening.  You suck up some low
carbonation beer from the glass and squirt if forcefully back into the
beer,  This releases excess carbonation and produces that swirling effect
in the beer, which settles and results in a creamy head, and an equally
creamy mouthfeel.

Warning, do not do this with an excessively carbonated beer!  One HBDer did
and it resulted in a chipped front tooth.  How, I hear you asking yourself?
The beer started to foam out of the mug as it sat on the counter, and he
lunged forward to sip the foam, but hit his tooth on the heavy mug rim.
Try explaining that to your dentist.

>On a somewhat related note: Does force carbonated beer produce larger, and a
>less "smooth" head? I tried an IPA at a micro recently and the carbonation
>seemed almost soda fountain like. Any thoughts?

I can't think of any reason this should be so.  It has been discussed here
often.  I ordinarily get great head retention and small bubbles with forced
carbonation.  However, my latest ESB has soda pop head retention and I
can't figure out why.  The only thing different is a new yest - Wyeast
1335, British II.  A while back there was discussion of FOOP, fold only
once proteins, the idea being that you have a limited amount of foam
producing proteins, and once they form foam, they cannot do it again.  I
skimmed the crud off the head of the fermenting beer, and skimmed the yeast
head, but I always do this.  I also got a lot of foam while aerating, but
again, I always do this.

I'm stumped on this one.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 16:27:15 -0500
From: "FC1(SW) Mike Pensinger" <mpensing at deyo.navy.mil>
Subject: SS Chiller/Beer and Nutrition

In HBD 3189 On Tue, 07 Dec 1999 15:47:44 -0500 Marc Sedam 
<marc_sedam at unc.edu> wrote:
Subject: SS wort chillers

>Hey all.  St. Pat's offers a 50ft. SS wort chiller for ~$60.  I
>found this at approximately the time that my copper, home made
>chiller got a serious crack in it.  I will likely buy this
>(correction, my brother, good soul that he is has offered it as a
>present) but wanted to know if anyone thought it was a bad idea
>based on the ability for SS to conduct heat and therefore
>function as a good immersion (or counterflow) chiller.

Seems to me that copper has a far superior heat transfer coefficient than 
stainless steel.  Apart from the neato SS aspect the copper homemade 
chiller will probable work better.

On a related note I discovered a great way to increase the efficiency of my 
immersion chiller.  I had built a HLT stirrer for my electric HLT out of an 
ice cream maker motor and a copper tube propeller assembly.  I discovered 
that the moror quickly overheated in that application so back to the 
drawing board.  But, it stirs very slowly and i mounted it over my kettle 
and used it to stir my wort gently while chilling.  It reduce my chilling 
time about 75%.  No exact data but I usually leave the water running and go 
inside to eat while it is chilling.  It was done in under 15 minutes with 
the stirrer!

In HBD 3190 on Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:40:39 -0500 (EST) Alan McKay 
<amckay at magma.ca> wrote:

> Subject: beer and nutrition

> I just had an argument with a friend at lunch about beer and nutrition.
> They of course maintained that beer is bad for you, and extremely
fattening.
> I of course maintained that beer is actually pretty good for you, and 
it's
> generally the barfood which goes with it that's fattening.

I am by no means an expert but the notion that beer is fattening boggles 
me.  The labels all say 0 fat so it can not be "fattening".  The 
misconception that beer is fattening comes from the normally sedentary life 
styles that some serious beer drinkers maintain (I am borderline on that 
myself).  I do remember reading some research about targeted calories aand 
body parts.  Seems that the unused calories from beer are generally more 
redily stored aroung the midsection.

v/r
FC1(SW) Mike Pensinger
Network Administrator
Ext 225
Email at home welcome: beerlvr at hrfn.net


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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 16:51:37 -0500
From: Tom Clark <rtclark at eurekanet.com>
Subject: Propane

Brewers

Propane is a colorless non-toxic gas.  Mercaptan is added to it to cause
a foul odor if released into the air.

Propane is 1.68 to 1.83 times heavier than air.   If released, it will
flow to the lowest place it can find.

Propane boils at -42 degrees C.

Propane expands 270 times it's volume when allowed to expand from a
liquid into a gaseous state.

Propane must be combined with air or oxygen to burn.  The lower limit is
2% and the upper limit is 10%. (a mixture of 2% propane gas and 98% air
will ignite when presented with an ignition source at normal room
temperature.)  note: When your car won't start because it is "flooded"
it means that the ratio of gasoline vapors to air is above the upper
limit for gasoline vapors.

Propane will auto-ignite at a temperature of 460 to 580 degrees,
depending on pressure and concentration.

Propane tanks greater than one pound capacity should never be stored
indoors. In some states, it is against the law to do so.

If you use propane in an enclosed area, even though the tank is
outdoors, invest in a combustible gas detector and mount it close to the
floor near the propane device.

For more information on LP gases, see the link below.

http://members.tripod.com/afandi/lpgas/lpgas02e.html

I have no affiliation with this organization.

Tom Clark


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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:23:49 -0600
From: "Dean Fikar" <dfikar at flash.net>
Subject: Steam injection and tannin extraction

>From: "Dean Fikar" <dfikar at flash.net>
>
>A couple of posters mention that direct injection of steam into the mash is
>bad because you might heat
>portions of the mash enough to extract tannins.  I don't agree.  After all,
>when you decoct a portion of
>the mash you're doing the same thing but to an even greater extent.  I did
>not notice any astringency
>with any of my steam-injected beers,

>Re: More steam (RobertJ)
>
>_____
>When you decoct you're taking only the thickest part of the mash and have a
>low liquid to grain ration.
>
>Tanin is extracted in a high liquid to grain ratio causing astringency.
>

I've not heard this explanation before.  Can anyone else verify?  I always
thought that it was the low mash pH that kept tannins from being extracted
when boiling a decoction.  I also don't understand why a relatively small
change in mash thickness would have any bearing on whether tannins are
extracted.  My typical "thick" decoction is about 0.8 to1.0 qt./lb. vs.
about 1.0 to 1.33 qts./lb. for a typical steam injected mash.  Can any
chemist enlighten me here?

- ---------------------------------------------
Dean Fikar - Ft. Worth, TX (dfikar at flash.net)


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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 17:52:08 -0500
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at ottawa.com>
Subject: Beautiful San Fran once again ...

For my first installment, check out :
http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/3194.html#3194-2

First and foremost - my apologies to the folks with whom I did
not manage to hook up.  The schedule for the conference ended
up being considerably tighter than I had expected, so the times we
did manage to get out to brewpubs we didn't really know until
the last minute.  The official part of our conference was Sat - Thu
9am to 5pm.  But then they had these "Birds of Feather" sessions
each evening, and on top of that different vendors like Cisco
and Digital Island held recruiting events in the 44th floor penthouse,
so it was pretty difficult to turn down free beer and a fabulous
panoramic view of San Fran!

In addition to what was in my first installment, I managed to get
out to the following places - some of which we did the "whirlwind"
thing all in the same night.

 - 20 Tank Brewery (in the Tenderloin on 11th)
 - Gold Dust Beer Bar and Lounge (downtown a block from the Hilton)
 - Jack's (?) in the Cannery (waterfront - was it called "Jack's")
 - Magnolia Brew Pub

The 20 tank had about 7 or 8 beers on tap, two of which were cask
conditioned.  I tried the Kinnickinnick (or however you spell it) and
the ESB, and the person I was with had the stout.  Both the ones I
had were very good beers.  The food there was upper-grade pub-ish
food, but was extremely reasonably priced.  Especially for San Fran.
Most of the stuff on the menu was around $6.  Had excellent
vegetarian sandwiches, too.  Can't wait to get back and try the
place again.

Gold Dust has about 20 or 30 beers on tap, but we only stayed there
for 1 beer since it turned out they didn't take Amex, and the only
food they served was pre-made sandwiches.  It was a really cool
retro-lounge-lizard sort of place, though, with red velvet seats with
high backs, that sort of thing.  Looked very fancy, but was done in
a mocking sort of way.  Apparantly they regularly feature some very
good live music, but we didn't stay around since we were hungry.
We both had the Erdinger Hefeweizen, imported from Germany.
Served in a proper Hefewiezen glass, but unfortunately it was very
off.  It didn't really taste foul or bad, it was just definitely not the
taste of a Hefeweizen.  I was EXTREMELY disappointed, especially
since I was so thrilled to see Erdinger on tap initially.

Jack's (I'm uncertain of the name because now I'm mixed up with
the "Jax" steakhouse we went to for lunch one day, but I think it's
called "Jack's in the Cannery") boasted 110 taps, but unfortunately
almost half of them were not serving beer.  They had a huge list
of all their beers, and another huge list of which ones were not
available at the moment.  About 20 to 30 micros on tap.   Nice
environment.  Had a really old (37?) roadster inside.  Live folk
music.  In addition to not having many of the beers, they
had almost no seafood available, even though we were almost right
on the wharf.  There was lots on the menu, but the waitress kept
saying "sorry, not available" when we asked for it.  We figured you
have to have seafood down in that area.  Apparantly they get
their order on Wednesdays, and we were unfortunate enough
to be there on a Tuesday evening.  So we had to settle for
burgers and fries.  Luckily they did have the Anchor Porter on
tap, and it definitely worth the rest of the misfortune we'd had there.
It wasn't as different from the bottled version as Steam on tap
is from it's counterpart, but it definitely had a fuller taste to it.
Very nice!  Don't recall the other ones I'd had.  I'd definitely
go back to Jack's - just not on a Tuesday night ;-)

The Magnolia (Haight and Masonic - down near Golden Gate
Park) was a rather small and very trendy little place.  "Hippy"
sort of food in some regards.  They had a very excellent Chili,
some exceptionally good sandwiches, and the mashed-potato
thing which I had was excellent, too.  7 or 8 of their own beers
on tap,  a couple of which doubled as cask-conditioned as well.
They also had "guest beers" from other micros.  I got to try
a Prohibition which I understand Jeffrey Donovan (a la Promash)
helps brew.  It was my favorite beer of the evening, though I
did thoroughly enjoy all I tried.  Will certainly come back here.

We also got to the E&O Trading Company, but they were
having a privite Shin-Dig so we had to take off elsewhere.
It was downtown, very huge inside, and looked to be extremely
trendy.  Can't wait to be in town again to give this place
a proper try.

In addition to the beer, I also got to try a good number of
local restoraunts.  San Fran is afterall famous for it's variety
of food.  Got some North (East) Indian BBQ (Tandoor),
a couple of steak houses, Foley's Irish Pub was excellent,
a Chinese place which served a Californian twist on bacon
and eggs (served a fresh fruit salad in place of the hash browns -
almost made it healthy).

All in all, I can't wait to go back!  I really love San Francisco!

cheers,
 -Alan


- --
- --
Alan McKay
amckay at ottawa.com
http://www.bodensatz.com/
What's a bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html






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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 21:27:46 -0800
From: "Brian Dixon" <briandixon at home.com>
Subject: Re: Oxygenator regulator

>Anyway, I want to use those red disposable O2 bottles and a regulator, but
I
>can't seem to find the regulator.  I checked Home Depot, Menards, Lowes,
>McMaster Carr...  Can't seem to find them.  I'm thinking I should have just
>bought the oxygenator from Liquid Bread.  They seem to be able to get the
>right regulator.   I'm thinking of a welding supply store next ( I need a
CO2
>tank for my kegs anyway).

I think what you really need is just a valve.  I bought the Oxynator from
Liquid Bread and it just uses a valve ... no regulator.  You just turn it
all the way on, and off you go!  (And off your beer goes!).  BTW, you are
saving much more than 30 minutes when you avoid the aquarium pump ... you
also avoid having to wait for the foam to die down over and over.  With the
oxygen system, I run 20 seconds into it, let the foam drop (1 or 2 minutes),
then run 20 seconds into it again.

Brian





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Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 10:32:19 -0800
From: Cave <cave at psc.org>
Subject: Classical music and Beer


	Liz Blades comments on enjoying classical music and beer.  In my view, 
when making the latter, the former is an essential ingredient to the 
process.  Other music just won't do--beer quality will suffer.  Further, 
when enjoying the former, the latter is an essential ingredient to the 
process!
				Jim Cave


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Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 15:44:31 -0800
From: Pat Babcock <babcockp at mediaone.net>
Subject: Musical brewers

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager....

Jim cave emotes:

Liz Blades comments on enjoying classical music and beer.  In my view, when 
making the latter, the former is an essential ingredient to the process. 
 Other music just won't do-beer quality will suffer.

Au contraire, mon ami! Though I deeply enjoy classical music, I find 
country music imparts that je ne sais quoi I require to brew well. (And if 
I don't find the time to brew soon, I'll explode! Or be overrun by the 
yeast stater I have had going for the last month or so. Five liters and 
counting...) Sensibilities vary!

 -
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock/
"Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



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Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 16:58:14 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Controlling Fermentation Temperature

From: Harley Ellenberger <HarleyE at CMAGTRACKS.com>

>I am wondering if you can offer any suggestions on simple ways to control
>fermentation temperatures........Any ideas

For simplicity and results, you just can't beat the method of placing your
fermenter into a rectangular picnic cooler filled halfway with cold water.
Place a 2 or 3 liter plastic pop bottle of frozen water into the cooler on
each side.  Rotate two more pop bottles between your freezer and the
fermenter as needed.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu


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Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 17:24:51 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: beer/alcohol regulations

From: "Larry Maxwell" <larrymax at bellsouth.net>

>Having just moved to Georgia from California, I'm trying to come
>to grips with the restrictive alcohol laws here

Larry, you named the subject line "beer/alcohol regulations", but I must
tell you the government and those in present control call this same subject
"alcohol/drug regulations".  This difference to a sensitive and alert person
should be heard as a loud message of impending danger.

Just listen to the television news broadcasts, and I am sure you will hear
every mention of any shooting, of any traffic accident, of and disturbance
involving alcohol always reported as alcohol/drug related.

If I do not have your attention yet, let me implore you one more time - I
have noticed a subtle and insidious marriage of the words alcohol and drugs
by the government and the media.

I too was caught by surprise when in Georgia and very shortly after
purchasing another beer to go with my Pizza Hut pizza, at 11:55 PM the
waitress informed us that we needed to drink the beer in 5 minutes or have
it confiscated.  My reaction (which immensely pi$$ed off the waitress) was
to ask if I was required to also urinate before midnight.

The bullies are flexing their muscles, heed the warning all.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu


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Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 18:41:08 -0500
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Kettle drain system

Brewers,
    In an effort to get more out of the kettle, I replaced my loosely coiled
SS washing machine hose sheath with a loop of 1/2" copper tube with slots
cut into the bottom every 1/2" or so. The diameter of the loop is about 10",
so I could do a proper whirlpool, leaving the stuff in the middle. (Note: my
washing machine hose sheath worked fine as long as I didn't use pellet
hops--it just left too much wort behind as it stopped draining when any part
of the bundle went above wort surface level.)
    The only batch that I did using my new drain worked great with water,
but only drained about a quart of wort before stopping completely. This
batch (a biere de garde) seemed to have a huge amount of floaties (break?).
I boiled for 30 minutes before adding the single hop addition, and then 60
minutes after. I added 1/2 tsp. of Irish moss at 15 min. Also, the cooling
post-boil was slower than usual (tried something else new.) I don't know if
the inability to drain was due to this fluffy break, or to a poor manifold
design. I didn't have any difficulty when I made the batch the first time,
but I had a racking cane siphon system then. Anyone with real experience
along this line want to speculate?

Brew on!

Doug Moyer
Salem, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity


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Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 18:46:31 -0500
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: beer/alcohol regulations

"Larry Maxwell" <larrymax at bellsouth.net> sez:

"Does anyone know of a source that would tell me what efforts are being or
have been made to change them, particularly in Georgia?"

I'm sure that the AHA is working diligently to sponsor grass roots efforts
to reform these laws. </sarcasm>

Brew on!

Doug Moyer
Salem, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity

last line designed to be removed by the new hbd software


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Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 19:13:47 -0500 (EST)
From: patrick finerty <zinc at zifi.psf.sickkids.on.ca>
Subject: source for SS washers?

howdy fellow brewers,

i need to purchase a couple of SS washers for the ball valve i'll be
installing in my brewing kettle. i'm going with a 1/2 in OD valve and
have seen 13/16 in (ID) washers on McMaster-Carr but they sell them in
packs of 25; i only need two to four.

home depot does not have ss washers this large. if anyone has another
place i can look, i'd appreciate it. also, i'm going to be buying
teflon washers from McMaster-Carr but if you know of a store carrying
these, that would be great.

slainte!
patrick in toronto
- -- 
       "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."
 Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer
	      finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key


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Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 19:27:23 EST
From: Ballsacius at aol.com
Subject: Mead

I recently read something that got my attention. It made mention of mint 
flavored mead. I have been entertaining the idea of making a few meads. I 
have never tried one but am always up for a new adventure. Where could I 
find(or taste) a "commercial" mead. I would like to try a couple before i put 
the time and effort into making one of these concoctions. I would like to try 
to make maybe a "mint" flavored mead and a subtle rasberry flavored mead. Any 
help, or suggestions. Thanks to all in advance.

Bob Fesmire
Madman Brewry
Pottstown,PA


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Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 20:55:43 EST
From: DawgDoctor at aol.com
Subject: Mash Efficiency

Please help me calculate my extraction efficiency.
8 # Marris Otter
0.5 # Flaked Barley
1.0 # Flaked Wheat
0.5 # Dextrine Malt
0.5 # 60 L Crystal Malt
0.5 # Chocolate Malt
0.5 # Roasted Barley

11.5 # total grain + adjuncts
 
104 F 140 F 158 F x 30 min each mash schedule

Initial runnings 1.062 pH=5.2
Final runnings 1.032 pH=5.3
Kettle (collected 7 gallons) 1.042 pH 5.15


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---