HOMEBREW Digest #3206 Tue 28 December 1999

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  3 Keg Brew System - Advice Wanted ("Elizabeth Smith 14")
  Mixers ("Mr. Joy Hansen")
  One-Step Sanitizer ("H. Dowda")
  Speise priming results (Greg Remake)
  Hand Grenade on the Table -- GMO ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Toad Spit Stout (Jeff Renner)
  Mixmasher ("Jack Schmidling")
  Thermodynamics ("Jack Schmidling")
  A Chilling Thought... (Jamie)
  Looking for indoor natural gas burners ("Justin S. Peavey")
  oxygenation systems. (Ballsacius)
  Re: Clone & Book review (erniebaker)
  1999 Happy Holidays Homebrew Competition Results (Brian Dreckshage)
  what a wacky, wacky man. (The Holders)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 00:58:11 -0000 From: "Elizabeth Smith 14" <Gahboo at pdq.net> Subject: 3 Keg Brew System - Advice Wanted Dear Collective, Thanks in advance for ignoring any dumb questions or superfluous description here. I am soon to be new all grain brewer and have just completed my three keg system. I have been extract brewing for about three years. General description of construction of the system hopefully sets the stage for the questions listed below. It is not "3 tier", since I do not have the storage space. I need a system that sits low to the ground and is really stable. I built a wheeled frame, with burners and pumps mounted in the frame so as to allow all three kegs to be at waist level. Actually is is really nice, and if anyone wants pictures, I can make them available. Two pumps are used, one for HLT, and one for the mash vessel. Both are high temp capable. A single manifold runs paralell to the length of the frame and is mounted 3" above the top of the vessels. Piping and valving are arranged to allow recirculation of the HLT and mash vessel contents. (false bottom installed, of course). I do not plan to use this as a continuously recirculating RIMS type setup. I do not want the electronic stuff, but am really attracted tot he idea of indirect heating of the mash. I will use gravity to drain the boil kettle. I hard piped all the plumbing with copper except for the exits from the manifold returning back to the vessels. I used 1/2" tubing here so I could see if any air is being sucked during recirculation. All piping is 1/2" copper and compression fittings are de-leaded brass. An important feature is the heat exchanger coil in the HLT. Mash liquid can be recirculated in the coil to indirectly heat the mash without applying direct heat. I used 35 feet of 1/2" tubing and it works like hell. The setup was able to raise the temp of 10 gallons of water at 100 degrees in the mash vessel to 120 in less than 5 minutes. The temp of the water in the HLT was 180 at start. I built it this was to facilitate multistep mash regimens. Now for my questions: 1.) First, is this whole business of indirect heating worth it? I thought it would be great for maintenance of temp during long rests and doing multi step mashes. I could always plug the holes, remove the coil, and thereby eliminate some of the questions below. 2.) Should I purge the copper piping with CO2 before each brewing session? I have never had HSA problems with my stovetop extract brews, but I fear that the pumps may expose me to HSA. 3.) How paranoid do I need to be about cleaning the piping after each brewing session. I was planning to just run lots of water through the piping since it all ends up in the boil kettle anyhow. 4.) Should I lay up the piping, particularly the coil in the HLT, wet or dry? I suppose this might influence the answer to question 2 above. I like the idea of leaving the pipes full of water when not in use because the coil takes a long time to rinse gas out of it when you first run liquid through it. I do not like to see bubbles recirculating in the mash liquid return. Eventually, they rinse out after about 30 minutes of recirculating at full flow, but it is a pain. Hence, I would like to store it wet. On the other hand, I am a bit afraid that slime will accumulate in the coil. I could blow the piping out with CO2, but I doubt I could get all the water out. 5.) How do I calculate mash water requirements when I do a multi rest mash. I do not want to use boiling water additions unless I need to. It seems simpler to me to recirc the mash through the coil in HLT and indirectly heat it. This means that the mash thickness does not change. Should I put the sum of all water additions planned for the boiling water infusion method into the mash tun at the start and then just step it up by recirculation? Any other advice, warnings, corrections, guidance, etc. appreciated. I even get off on flames. Email OK. Thanks. Ken Smith Houston, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 06:39:27 -0500 From: "Mr. Joy Hansen" <joytbrew at patriot.net> Subject: Mixers Dave Ludwig wort: > 3 - 3.3 RPM seems way to slow for efficient mash mixing unless you're just trying to short circuit channeling. I get visible circulation of the mash but no agitation using about 60 RPM in the SHMS. Jack Schmidling uses 30 RPM and apparently gets good results. How does your mixer work at that RPM Joy? Joy"T"Brew makes an opinionated response: In a SRIMS system, channeling is only an issue during the run off(s). Much like it would be in Jack's approach if he uses a zap/zap like lauter, or your SHMS. I'm thinking that Jack doesn't use a RIMS like system, meaning recirculation. Also, he's most likely doing single infusion mashes, which are widely accepted among home brewers as appropriate. If so, there's no possible way to compare Jack's good results with Joy's or Dave's results! These approaches get the job done. AND, Jack's and Dave's brews might be considerably better than Joy's! Any mashing system that I'm aware of requires stirring to adequately distribute the heat within the mash to create a reproducible wort composition. A simple temperature probe of several areas in the mash will indicate when the mash temperature is evenly distributed (2 degrees or less through out the mash). The SHMS, if I understand your meaning, uses a heat exchanger coil in both the sparge water and the mash tun to transfer heat to the mash. To get acceptable temperature ramps, the heat in the recirculating water must be considerably above the mash temperature. I think this means that the mash must be stirred like mad. Jack might only need brief stirring to accomplish adequate temperature distribution. In my SRIMS as some put it, the recirculated liquid enters the stirring shaft and exits in two or three arm that are perpendicular to the shaft. The bottom arm also runs a scraper/mixing blade to help clear the false bottom to allow adequate flow through the system. There's likely a dozen 3/16 holes in the arms, and one in the end of each arm. In addition to stirring, the force of the liquid jetting from the arms causes an unmeasured reverse circulation much faster than 3 RPM. To this date, this has prevented scorching on the dual 5000 watt low density water heater elements drawing 10 amps at 110 volts. I get near one degree/minute during temperature ramps and temperature variation through out the mash of less than 2 degrees. Measured with my Brewtemp wand. Still pictures don't show the system in operation; however, anyone is welcome to ask me for a couple I've put together. Thanks Dave, as you pointed out my error in recommending a mixer motor that only satisfies my system requirements. Each system IS different . . . and requires the reinvention of the wheel Joy"T"Brew Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 07:20:14 -0800 (PST) From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com> Subject: One-Step Sanitizer I cannot find a commercial source for this product any longer. E-mailed the company > 1 wk ago, no reply. Anyone have a source? Are they still in business? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 09:51:12 -0600 From: Greg Remake <gremake at gsbalum.uchicago.edu> Subject: Speise priming results Emboldened by a paper by Paul Claasen referred to in the HBD about a year or so ago, I decided to try priming with speise (or gyle). Speise is simply wort that is removed from the rest of a batch prior to fermentation, which is boiled and added back at bottling in lieu of corn sugar (or other priming fermentable). I've tried priming with DME in the past and was generally pleased with the results, but I like the idea of priming with wort from the same batch, having the same malt and hops profile. Anchor Steam is reportedly kraeusened, so I attempted speise priming on a recent batch of California Common, as priming with speise looked to be easier than kraesening. Although the quantity can be calculated much more precisely (as shown in the paper), I found that 2 quarts of wort from a 5.5 gallon batch is about right. After chilling, I drew off about 2 quarts of wort from the kettle into sanitized bottles that I capped and stored in the refrigerator. When I bottled, I boiled up the speise and added it to my bottling bucket instead of a corn sugar solution. While racking to the bottling bucket I filled a couple of bottles for a control sample. I primed these bottles with about one teaspoon of corn sugar boiled in a tiny bit of water. The bottles have conditioned for about a month now, so I had my wife assist me in a taste test. She poured three glasses of beer from the two priming methods, one of one type and two of the other, and I tried to identify which was which. It was surprisingly easy, and even my wife perceived the differences. The speise-primed beer was slightly darker, perhaps from a bit of carmelizing when I boiled the speise. Most noticeable was the difference in heads. The speise-primed beer kept a creamier, finer, longer-lasting head than its sugar-primed counterpart. The sugar-primed beer initially had a taller head, but after sitting for a few minutes it developed much larger bubbles, and its height fell below that of the speise-primed beer. Differences in taste were also evident. The speise-primed beer had a maltier flavor, and the sugar-primed beer had a noticeably thinner body. I'll be the first to admit shortcomings in my testing approach, primarily lack of ensuring exactly equivalent levels of priming fermentables. But my results indicated to me that I preferred the beer primed with speise over that primed with sugar. There is slightly more effort associated with accounting for, collecting and storing the speise, but the results seem to be worth it. I'll definitely be repeating the practice. Cheers! Greg Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 19:29:53 -0500 From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com> Subject: Hand Grenade on the Table -- GMO Well, traffic is light so I'll toss the hand grenade on the table (or ask the question if you prefer that term). What is the collective opinion on use of Genetically Modified Organisms for brewing? Mine is, it makes no difference to me. I'll go for the best performing product at the best price. Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 08:50:09 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Toad Spit Stout Kevin McDonough <kmcdonou at nmu.edu> writes: >In Papazian's New Complete Joy of Homebrewing, there is a recipe for Toad >Spit Stout. It calls for 3.3 lbs. of John Bull hopped dark malt extract >syrup. If I wanted to use a non-hopped dark liquid malt extract from some >other company (e.g. Hoptech), how much do I increase the hops in the recipe >to equal the amount in the hopped extract? The recipe calls for 1.5 oz. of >Northern Brewer hops in the boil and 0.5 oz. of Fuggles or Willamette hops >as a finishing hops. Would I increase the Northern Brewer hops to 2 oz to >compensate? I'm afraid that I don't know the hopping level of JB extract, so I can't help you much on that, except to say that these old-line British cans aren't hopped very highly. Some years ago Zymurgy published an article with the hopping levels of a number of extracts. Perhaps someone has that on line. However, I just checked and copnfirmed that that was the recipe that CP calls for 8 tsp. of gypsum, a ridiculous amount. You don't need the calcium for an extract beer, and that amount of sulphate is looking for trouble, IMO. I've never made the recipe, but I'd worry about a high unpleasant bitterness. At most, I'd think the gypsum was unnecessary. I'd cut it to no more than 1 tsp. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 15:11:51 -0600 From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net> Subject: Mixmasher From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com> >I like the idea of constant stirring, but can a mixmasher set the grain bed? That again depends on what the meaning of "set" is. The object of a a mixer is to mix. In my sense of the meaning of "set the grain bed", one would use the off switch. Actually, I remove the mixer, put the cover on and let it sit for 30 minutes. js PHOTO OF THE WEEK http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm HOME: Beer, Cheese, Astronomy, Videos http://user.mc.net/arf Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 15:21:43 -0600 From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net> Subject: Thermodynamics This has little to do with beer but I know I can always find expertise I lack somewhere in this group. I am trying to set up a humidity/temp controlled room for cheese aging but can't even get beyond the fundamental problem of measuring humidity, much less controlling it. I have four hygrometers, two analog and two digital and they are all nutty, relative to each other and the world. So I am measuring dew point and comparing this with dry bulb temp and getting nowhere with the psycrometric charts. I want to use this to calibrate the hygrometers. My living room has a temp of 68F and a dew point of 40F. This is off the chart, below 0% RH. According to the wx radio, it's 20F outside and the dew point is 5F and the RH is 64%. These numbers are not even on the chart. What am I missing? js PHOTO OF THE WEEK http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm HOME: Beer, Cheese, Astronomy, Videos http://user.mc.net/arf Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 15:06:30 -0800 From: Jamie <jamie at pub-sf.com> Subject: A Chilling Thought... Greetings Collective! While bemoaning the current lack of snow in the Sierra and it's impact on boarding/skiing (or lack therof) the idea that this was possibly the beginning of another drought got dredged up, and I had a thought about brewing and water conservation... Right now I'm using a really nifty C-F chiller, which doesn't use a huge amount of water - less than coils in the kettle, but I was thinking that trying to cut down excess water use might not be a bad idea. Given the cost and all, a glycol chiller is out of the question, but I was thinking that thermally connecting the wort outlet tube to the evaporating coils of a window air conditioner might work. Something on the size of 1/2 ton or so would probably do the job assuming I get good thermal contact and do some good HX design, but I think that's a bit on the big side for a "window" unit. Has anybody ever tried playing around with this idea? Jamie - -- Quantum Physics says beer only comes in discrete quanta, such as 12 oz, 16 oz, 32 oz, six packs and assorted kegs. The stores dont sell 3 oz beers or 19 .747545322 oz beers. You can get an available quantum or be thirsty. <---- http://www.pub-sf.com ----> <---- jamie at pub-sf.com ----> Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 20:06:15 -0500 From: "Justin S. Peavey" <jpeavey at peaveynet.com> Subject: Looking for indoor natural gas burners While in the process of building an indoor RIMS system, I'm looking for any recommendations on natural gas burners, preferably ones that will shut off if the flame goes out. Many thanks, Justin Peavey Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 21:17:16 EST From: Ballsacius at aol.com Subject: oxygenation systems. Happy Holidays all! Santa has been nice enough to leave me a *few* bucks to use toward my beer making. I am an all-grain brewer, so I have most of the major equipment(but always tinkering). I am thinking about buying an oxygenation system. I know that Liquid Bread makes one and there are a few other varities made by various homebrew supply stores. What has been the experience with any of these systems? Are they worth the investment(avg$40-$50)? Private e-mail is okay, I willsummerize and post to the group. Thanks in Advance Bob Fesmire Madman Brewery Pottstown, PA Ballsacius at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 18:40:52 -0800 (PST) From: erniebaker at webtv.net Subject: Re: Clone & Book review 1. Looking for a clone recipe for "Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale", prefer extract or extract/partial mast. 2. Anyone in brew land have a copy of "Brew Your Own British Real Ale" and used the recipes? Would like to know if the book is worth buying and trying. 3. Happy, Healthy New Year to all. Ernie Baker 29 Palms, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 13:50:18 -0600 From: Brian Dreckshage <dreck at concentric.net> Subject: 1999 Happy Holidays Homebrew Competition Results Best of Show - Erik Nelson, Sauk Rapids MN, with his Belgian Ale. To see the list of all winners, please go to www.stlbrews.org Thanks to all entrants, sponsors and volunteers for making the competition a great success. Hope to see you at MCAB 2000 in St. Louis The St. Louis Brews Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 20:48:08 -0800 From: The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com> Subject: what a wacky, wacky man. Is it just me? Jack says: >Guess that depends on what the meaning of "run errands" is. >I find it hard to believe that you get in the car with the wife >and kids and do the weekly shopping while mashing. But if you do, >"god bless us everyone". Well, I guess that all depends on the meaning of "wife and kids" then, doesn't it Jack? Maybe you should also define "shopping" for us? Maybe I should get out my EZDICTIONARY (tm). >I get a lot of other things done while mashing but have the sense to >check on it every 15 minutes or so. Well, in my non-"sense"-ical Rube Goldberg brewing operation, I have sensors that check the mash and hot liquor temperatures many times every second. I guess that all depends on what the meaning of "check" is though. >It also depends on what the definition of "step mash" is. I can start my >mash >at room temp or any other temp and by setting the heat very low, have my >mash >slowly pass through every rest temp that has ever been conceived. So in a >sense, I can do an infinite "step mash" that probably does everything that >one >could ever taste in a beer without even thinking about the details. How silly of me to think of timed rests in between temperature raises as a "step mash". I vote that Jacks linear non-step mash be entered into the FAQ (is there one?) as the definition of "step mash". All mashes that have non-linear temperature profiles will now be referred to as "multiple jumpy mash thingies". I also propose that anyone using a wort chiller have this process labeled as "non JSP compliant". Proudly mashing with a false bottom, and grinding with the HHHoagie Mill, Wayne Holder AKA Zymie Zymico, Webster, Rube Goldberg and associates brewing Co. Long Beach CA http://zymico.web.com Return to table of contents
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