---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: Melanoidin Malt ("Brian Dixon.")
  Foam space (ThomasM923)
  Dumb and Dumber (ThomasM923)
  Re:  Anyone have a Rheingold recipe to share? ("tantillo at ichange.net")
  Wild Yeast/'d' tied to beer ("A. J. deLange")
  Thanks Rock Creek Brewing ("Robert Bratcher")
  FS:  Corny Kegs; Reg Kegs (motten)
  conical fermentor angle ("Czerpak, Pete")
  "Fur" on the Sides of Bottles (Dan Listermann)
  gelatin, language and idiots ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Pat's yeast starter behavior ("Alan Meeker")
  Gelatin (RCAYOT)
  Jim Koch (Dave Burley)
  microwaves -  an actual experiment! ("Alan Meeker")
  Re: Force Carbonating / O2 / Reversed Cornie fittings (Michael Kowalczyk)
  Fix's new book ("Alan Meeker")
  cleaning/sanitation/wyeast (jliddil)
  Can dry yeast packets be used for bread? ("Kris Hansen")
  Valley Mill Heads Up ("Houseman, David L")
  Re: Flour in Witbeer. ("Rob Compton")
  I don't think Color is important. ("John Palmer")
  Black and Tan, half and half, etc. ("Charles E. Mryglot")
  MCAB (Robert Johnson)
  Follow up on water filter question (Paul Shick)
  Wheat Flower ? (DakBrew)
  corks ("Paul Niebergall")
  many thanks to all (Nina Cohen)
  more microwave maddness! ("Alan Meeker")
  Yeast looks and growth, and corks (MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA)
  Refrigeration Unit ("Troy Hager")
  CP bottle filler (Glenn Matthies)
  And another thermometer ("Angie and Reif Hammond")
  Lighter Fluid (Bob Wilcox)
  Wierd starter and brew (jim english)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* Entry deadline for the Mayfare Homebrew Competition is 3/15/00 
* See http://www.maltosefalcons.com/ for more information

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:33:55 -0800
From: "Brian Dixon." <briandixon at home.com>
Subject: Re: Melanoidin Malt

[snip]
>A while back the subject of how to use recipes
>expressed as a percentage was discussed and I am not
>sure if a consensus was ever reached in this forum. In
>your recipe, are your percentages expressing the
>ingredients ratio by weight or by extract?  In your
>experience, which is the preferred method?
>
[snip]

According to Michael J. Lewis in the AOB Classic Series book on Stout, the
brewing industry (professionals) formulate by percentages of extract.  It is
homebrewers that have fudged things and sometimes report recipes in
percentage by weight.  Without knowing the relative extraction rates among
the various types of malts, it is hard to do an accurate conversion from one
expression of the recipe to another.  (Note that it is probably not fair to
assume that if you have an X% rate of extraction on the average, that you
extract X% of any particular malt's maximum theoretical extract in a mash.
The extraction process is different for different malts and depends on
crush, soluble solids, and the various enzyme activities in the various
mashes and mixtures of mashes.)  Comments anyone?

Brian





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 00:41:52 EST
From: ThomasM923 at aol.com
Subject: Foam space

I just purchased a keg to use as a boiler. It has inspired in me such a lust 
for stainless steel that I am now considering purchasing another one of these 
kegs for fermenting 10 gallon batches in. This keg is a bit smaller than the 
usual 15.5 gallon type, having a 13.4 gallon capacity which works out to 
about 12 gallons usable space. I am wondering if there is enough space in 
this size keg to contain all the foam in a 10 gallon batch during high 
krausen? I've read that one needs about 30-40% headspace in a plastic 
fermenter, however a keg is proportionally wider than a plastic bucket. I am 
wondering if anyone that uses a keg as an open fermenter can give me an idea 
what the typical amount of space the foam takes up is.

metallically yours,
Thomas Murray


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 01:40:22 EST
From: ThomasM923 at aol.com
Subject: Dumb and Dumber

J. Pullum wrote:

"i just had my new washing machine delivered by the dumbest guy in the 
state..."

Reminds me of the time my wife and I had an apartment in Hoboken, NJ. Every 
now and then the landlord would send a guy by to spray roach killer under the 
cabinets and behind the fridge. We never thought too much about it before, 
but this time we were the new parents of a baby girl and somewhat concerned 
about the chemicals the guy was about to put in our apartment. My wife asked 
him if he thought the chemicals posed a health risk. He said:

"Just take a look at me. I been doin' this kind of work for years, and I'm 
fine."

We somewhat reluctantly allowed him to spray, and after a few minutes he was 
on his way to spray the other apartments. About a half an hour later we heard 
a knock and when I opened the door we found the same guy standing there. 
Thinking that he had left something behind, I let him in and shut the door. 
His eyes widened as he looked around in amazement and said:

"Wow! You won't believe this but a coupla minutes ago I was in an apartment 
that looked exactly like this one. They have the exact same furniture and 
everything!"

Born that way, or made that way? We were hoping for former...

Thomas Murray
Maplewood, NJ


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 06:36:44 +0000 (/etc/localtime)
From: "tantillo at ichange.net" <tantillo at ichange.net>
Subject: Re:  Anyone have a Rheingold recipe to share?

Rich Rodda asks about a Rheingold recipe.  Brewing Techniques has two
history articles on their web site, which is still up and running.  The
first address has a recipe and the second address is good for general
background reading:

http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.1/jankowski.html
"The Bushwick Pilsners: A Look at Hoppier Days" by Ben Jankowski
 
http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.3/fix.html
"Explorations in Pre-Prohibition American Lagers" by George J. Fix

There may also be some other recipes in the homebrew digest archives.

Tony Tantillo





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 13:09:14 +0000
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Wild Yeast/'d' tied to beer

Tom reports a phenolic tasting beer which demonstrates two species of
yeast. The smaller guys are pretty certainly a wild strain introduced
somewhere during the brewing process. It is quite common for these guys
to poduce phenolics in undesireable quantities.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Dave forgot the farthing (1/4d and please be sure to notice that the h
is not silent). Also note that the 'd' comes from Latin "denarius",
"...a Roman silver coin originally equivalent to ten asses but
afterwards to eighteen; equivalent to an Attic drachma...". The denarius
lives on in 6d nails and in several middle eastern countries which use
the "dinar" as their currency. Does this have anything to do with beer?
Of course it does. The Bahraini Dinar reproduces on its back a picture
of their Monetary Authority building upon which are mounted large
replicas of four coins from the acient Dilmun civilization. Clearly
visible on one of these coins (on the bank note as well as the building)
are two Dilmunites having a beer. They are drinking through straws from
a large vessel. Obviously I'm interpreting here but the scene looks very
much like other representations of beer drinking from that part of the
acient world. The straws were used to get past the unpleasant material
which floated on the surface of the beer.



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:09:16 -0500
From: "Robert Bratcher" <rbratcher at advanceautoparts.com>
Subject: Thanks Rock Creek Brewing

Brewers,

Long time lurker, infrequent poster here.

At our club's ,Star City Brewers Guild (http://hbd.org/starcity) ,last
meeting the monthly "style" was actually a clone attempt of Rock Creek's
Black Raven Porter.  We were very fortunate to have Jon Esposito, RC's
President, attend our meeting with a nice fresh keg of Black Raven to aid in
our judging.  Due to our club members participation with their clone
attempts and, in a really big way, Jon's presence and willingness to answer
questions and share knowledge on RC's brewing procedures and recipes, our
Febrewary meeting was outstanding.

I don't know if Jon reads the HBD, he does have a history of home brewing,
but I wanted to get a BIG PUBLIC THANKS out there to him for attending our
meeting.  I would also like to encourage other clubs to seek out ties to
breweries in their neighborhood.  As a result of our meeting we hope to work
with Rock Creek in the future in developing events, competitions &
festivals, and arrange field trips for the club to their facilities.  This
may not seem like much to many of you but the closest brewery to Roanoke, VA
is at least a three hour, or more, drive toward most points of the compass.

I even got to meet a fellow  HBDer, thanks for coming Drewmeister.

Rock Creek Brewing is headquartered in Richmond, VA with brewing facilities
located in Raleigh, NC.  http://www.rcbrewing.com  Check out their web site
and try to find some of their brews.  Besides the Black Raven, Devil's Elbow
IPA is a club favorite while all of their brews are excellent.

Bob Bratcher
Advance Auto Parts
rbratcher at advanceautoparts.com
540-561-6458
ext 6458
All statements and opinions are my own and in no way reflect the position of
Advance Auto Parts.



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 09:23:46 -0500
From: motten at fcmc.com
Subject: FS:  Corny Kegs; Reg Kegs

Hi all,

I've been a long time member of this list, and an almost as long time
lurker.  The time has come for me to get rid of some equipment.  

I have a bunch (15?) of pin-lock corny kegs that are unfortunately just
taking up space in my basement.  The gaskets have been changed and the
the insides cleaned.  They have been stored for the last 2 or 3 years in
a mild iodophor solution (inside, of course).  (Is this bad???)

I also have 3 (three) 1/2 barrel and 1 (one) 1/4 barrel kegs
(Anheuser-type) that I have done nothing with.  I originally planned a 2
tier/3 tank system, with perhaps, a decoction "keg", but I have just
never had the time to build the system, let alone brew.

I live on Long Island, NY and would prefer to not ship.  I might be
willing to meet people "halfway" with as many cornys/kegs as I can fit
in my Volkswagen (I'm sure I could squeeze more in there than you
think!).  

Please respond privately, if interested, with offers.  I am extremely
flexible.  

Regards,

Mike Otten


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:25:31 -0500 
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: conical fermentor angle

In HBD #3241, JOe Gibben asks for a conical fermentor bottom angle.  I think
that 60degrees from horizontal is about the correct angle.  This is what is
sold for the homebrew version of conical fermentors.  The reasoning behind
the angle is the closer to horizontal your angles get, the tougher it is for
the yeast to slip down the sides of the fermentor when they flock out -
making harvest and clarrification tougher.  However, as the angle gets
closer to vertical, the height of the fermentor obviously gets taller. 60
appears to be the industry balance.

Good luck with your welding.  Would love to see a picture when its complete.

Regards,
Pete Czerpak
Albany, NY


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:31:57 -0500
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: "Fur" on the Sides of Bottles

Steve Postek ( spostek at voicenet.com) writes:

<Now two weeks post bottling if I hold a bottle up to the light I can
see something grainy on the sides of the bottles.  I have never seen
this before.  Is it the gelatin sticking to the sides of the bottles?
The beer is crystal clear and tastes great but I am just a bit stymied
by the stuff hanging on the sides of each and every bottle (I checked
all 29 22oz bottles).>

I have seen this phenomenon many times.  At the time I saw it, I wasn't
using any finings so I doubt that it is related to the gelatin finings. 
Interestly, if Steve had paid a bit more attention, he would have noticed
that the "fur" was on the same side of all the bottles.  I believe that it
has to do with some sort of temperature differential in the room where the
beer is conditioning.

The cure for the "fur" is to simply twist the bottles a bit to dislodge the
stuff from the walls of the bottle so that it can fall to the bottom.

Anyone care to speculate about the cause??

Dan Listermann  dan at listermann.com     72723.1707 at compuserve.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 09:34:04 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: gelatin, language and idiots

Steve Postek questioned gelatin finings

>Now two weeks post bottling if I hold a bottle up to the light I can
>see something grainy on the sides of the bottles.  I have never seen
>this before.  Is it the gelatin sticking to the sides of the bottles?
>The beer is crystal clear and tastes great but I am just a bit stymied
>by the stuff hanging on the sides of each and every bottle

I've had a similar phenomenon in the past, but the grainy material only
speckled the glass on the bottom 1/4 of the bottle.  I didn't use gelatin or
any other fining agent.  The beer was great, so I chalked it up to being
small yeast colonies which adhered to the glass.  I don't remember which
batch it was, but I guess it depends on the strain of yeast used.  Waiting
to see other responses as I still have reservations on trying gelatin for
the first time (and isinglass as well).

Dave Burley commented on modernizing brewing language:

>Speaking of language, in the 
>spirit of modernization and in
>line with the "modernization" of the 
>counting system, why don't we 
>stop using these antiquated terms
>like tun, lauter, wort. grist, mash
>and the like. Why not reaction chamber,
>extraction, fermentable solution,
>comminuted reactants, reaction
>mixture?

These terms are too logical and actually make sense.
How shall we keep the neophytes confused?  Enzyme reactions?
Our sacred work must be protected from those who would defile it!
I think we should make up a secret language as like the alchemists did ;-)

JPullum127 told us about the dumbest guy in the state:

>i just had my new washing machine delivered by the dumbest guy in the
state. 
>i had to write some of his comments cause they are so strange it was funny.

After reading this I want to know two things:
1. Which state would that be?  (We have our fair share of idiots in NJ)
2. Did you check to make sure he didn't hook up the washing machine to the
gas line by mistake?
    (I've seen people try to make this work.)



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:39:13 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Pat's yeast starter behavior

Pat Babcock asked about differences in his yeast cultures:

>  ...Is there any reason why
>this SHOULD be? Perhaps the foam stopper is more "two-way" than the water
>lock? Or maybe the foam stopper doesn't cause a slight increase in head
>pressure as you would get from the weight of the column of water in the
>S-lock, so there is less CO2 dissolving into that starter?

Pat, I think it is likely that your first guess is the correct one. The foam
stopper is probably allowing air (oxygen) into the flask which will enable
the yeast culture to grow more quickly and probably to a higher density.
Another possibility is that there is some sort of contaminant in this flask,
especially given the long length of time you've been running these
cultures - Not meant to be a slam against your aseptic technique Pat!

 -Alan Meeker
  Baltimore, MD




Return to table of contents


Date: 07 Feb 2000 08:31:04 -0500
From: RCAYOT at solutia.com
Subject: Gelatin

     Regarding a post from:"Steve Postek" Gelatin Finings and Pale Ale:
     
     When I used to fine with gelatin, I also saw these little buggers 
     adhering to the sides of my bottles.  Just ignore them, and enjoy the 
     clear brew.  Now I keg and don't bother with fining!
     
     Roger



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:47:12 -0500
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Jim Koch

Brewsters:

PatB was reading the Reader's Digest
in the "library" about Jim Kochs' father
discovering some beer recipes in
his attic written on yellow pieces
of paper. 

I wonder if they said "Take a can of
Blue Ribbon Malt Extract, 5 pounds of
sugar and a package of baker's yeast?"

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:52:52 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: microwaves -  an actual experiment!

This is cool - I tried the experiment. I got a 125 ml smooth-as-silk Pyrex
Erlenmeyer flask, washed it well, rinsed the hell out of it w/ distilled
water then filled it about 3/4 full and put it in the microwave for 10
minutes which was obviously way too long but I was going to stop it after a
few minutes. Unfortunately I forgot about it. the next thing I knew I heard
a big "BOOM" from across the room - nearly the entire contents of the flask
had explosively evacuated all at once! Wow! (although this probably has a
lot to do with the geometry of the flask and may not be as much of a problem
for something with a larger opening like a coffee cup).

So I refilled the flask, reset, this time for 5:30, then I brought it to
/just/ boiling visibly and /carefully/ took it out and /carefully/ lowered
the smoothest thermometer I could find into it - it shot up to 103 degC !!
Cool! I repeated the experiment a few times and each time the measured temp
was between 101 and 103. It is a bit hard to make the measurement as the
thermometer does indeed nucleate bubble formation and if the water is too
hot the whole thing goes critical. This also happened when I bumped the
flask on the microwave getting it out or set it down on the bench too hard.
"Kids, don't try this one at home!"

Well, I am even more convinced now that superheating is a real phenomenon:

The water was distilled lab water so there shouldn't have been enough
dissolved solutes in it to account for the rise in boiling point.
The thermometer was our good NIST standardized thermometer so I trust the
reading.
I was careful to submerse the thermometer to the correct line indicated on
the thermometer's body

The only two things I wonder about are:

1) Is it possible that steam condensing on the thermometer body just above
the water line caused a rise in temp over the 100 degC mark? I'll have to
re-do the experiment with some sort of insulation wrapped around the
thermometer body where it is exposed to steam...

2) Is there something funny about the geometry of the flask - small opening
for the volume contained - that somehow acts to cause a local partial
pressure increase making some sort of mini-pressure cooker effect? (I know
sounds bogus but I am trying to think of things to disprove my superheating
hypothesis...)

 -Alan Meeker
 Lazy Eight Brewery
 Baltimore, MD





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:57:56 -0800
From: Michael Kowalczyk <mikekowal at megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Force Carbonating / O2 / Reversed Cornie fittings

 This one goes back a while. Thanks to Jeff for talking about his techniques
for kegging.  It came at just the right time as I had just filled my first 2
cornies and was wondering what techniques I should adopt.  I've since drained
3 kegs and force carbonated at 12-17 psi for 3-6 days.  You guys are right,
CO2 is CO2.  NO differences in force carbonating and my bottled brew.  I was
very pleased at just how easy it is to keg and server perfectly carbonated
beer.
- -----------------------
Don't want to use the M-word, or report anechdotal evidence, but I just don't
see a vast difference between aerating w/pure O2 and not.  I even have on tap
side by side one brew that was aerated for 90 sec w/pure O2 and an airstone
and one brew that was just xfered to the carboy.  No splashing and no
aeration whatsoever.  Both had PLENTY of very healthy fermenting yeast at
pitch time.  Taste them and one does'nt blow the other one away.  Sure they
are different beers, with different grain bills, mashed at different temps,
and fermented with different yeasts (can I change just ONE more thing!) but I
was expecting quantum leaps here.  I've been through almost 50 brews without
pure O2 and only one with, so I'll give it a chance.  At least it didn't
degrade the taste!
 -----------------------
 I'm a very satisfied customer w/Beer Beer and more beer.  No affiliation
blah blah blah.  It seems the 4 kegs that I got from them have the in and out
fittings reversed.  I suspected this when I tried to use the carbonator and
it would'nt fit.  It's true they are switched.  Can I just switch the
fittings on the cornie myself?  Is this a pain or a piece of cake?  Can
someone describe it to me as I am a cornie virgin.  Again BB&MB has always
been very good.  I would just like to start using the carbonator cap and that
cute little portable serving tapper that BB&MB sells.  I can slowly change
the fittings as I fill the carboys.  
 ------------------------
TIA, Mike


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:39:42 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Fix's new book

So, someone anonymously mailed me a copy of Fix's latest book asking that I
look it over and review it on the HBD. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm guess I'd better get my
flame-proof suit out of the closet! Actually, flipping through it, it
doesn't look bad.

I'll try to oblige but I really should be writing my darn thesis!

Thanks to whoever sent this, now maybe they'd like me to review both volumes
of malting and Brewing Science... ;)

 -Alan Meker
 Lazy Eight Brewery
 Baltimore, MD







Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 09:28:01 -0700 (MST)
From: jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: cleaning/sanitation/wyeast

> 
> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 00:54:45 -0600
> From: Tom <tco at mindspring.com>
> Subject: micro investigator
> 
> 
> Today I brought a bottle of an infected batch of mine
> to a microbiologist I know.  She stained to see
> yeasts (blue stain I think) and we noticed two distinct
> types of yeast.  There were plenty of both of them.
> 
> I pitched Wyeast Irish Ale XL into 5 gallons of Irish amber.
> Fairly long lag, about 16 hours before airlock movement.
> 
> Question 1.) Is this culture a mixture of two strains? 
>        Sort of like whitbread which is a mixture of three 
>        strains of yeast..
> 

Short answer.  You made the choice to use wyeast.  But that is not very
helpful. :-)

The stuff is probably no intentionally a mixture, but one never knows what
lurks in that little foil pouch.

> The two types of yeast looked like... 
> a.) a larger perfectly round yeast that stained dark blue and
>     evenly   
> b.) slightly smaller and slightly oval/football shaped, 
> stain was concentrated on center of cell, the outer edge 
> appeared white/clear and had a thickness of about 1/5th 
> of the diamter of the cell.
> 
> Question 2.) Anyone know if one of these yeasts are 
>              not S. Cerev.? Champagne yeast maybe?
> 
> I also had some kind of cocci swimming in the brew.
> The beer has been bottled for 3 weeks, so what ever the
> little boogers are they are living anaerobically, she 
> says.
> 
> Suprisingly the beer isn't awful, just phenolic
> and estery.  I suspect yeast B is a wild one. If you 
> know this one, I'd like to hear it. Private email is fine.

Phenolic suggests wild yeast.  I would review all your cleaning and
sanitatiohn procedures.  And also look inot different sources of yeast and
learning to culture your own stuff.

Jim Liddil
North Haven, CT 
liddil.com






Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:02:02 -0600
From: "Kris Hansen" <HanseKW at dhfs.state.wi.us>
Subject: Can dry yeast packets be used for bread?


Hi All, 

I had a quick question about dry yeast.  I have some old packets of
Nottingham yeast that I don't want to trust for brewing and was
wondering if I could use them for bread-making.  Has anyone tried this
and if so, how much of the dry yeast would you use per loaf?  Also if
anyone knows of a cheap source for 10 gallon Gott coolers for mashing
(or if anyone wants to sell me one!) I would appreciate any info. 
Thanks in advance for any assistance.

 -Kris


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 12:10:55 -0500 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Valley Mill Heads Up

Wes Smith's story of his Valley Mill had me thinking.  While I haven't had
the specific problem of something getting into the mill and grinding down a
roller, his experience of the mill stalling and having to be prodded
occasionally is familiar to me.  I suspect this is due to the second roller
not being driven by any gears so unless some grain is between the rollers
for the drive roller to cause the second to turn, then it doesn't.  And if
the grain trying to get to the rollers hits just right, nothing goes
through, the second roller doesn't turn to help the process and things bog
down.  Prodding with a piece of wood, or preferably opening the gap slightly
and momentarily, seems to work.  I've thought of modifying the inside of the
hopper to provide a greater roller area for contact with grain.  This would
allow the mill to grain more grain in a unit of time and give more contact
area to potentially stop this stalling.  Has anyone with a Valley Mill made
such modifications to the mill's hopper?

Dave Houseman


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:21:59 -0000
From: "Rob Compton" <Compton at btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Flour in Witbeer.

Keith MacNeal said...

>I made the assumption that 1 lb. of whole wheat flour = 1 lb. of whole
wheat
>grain.  I follow Rajotte's suggestion and use a sifter to add the flour to
>the mash.  No guey sparges yet.

The flour you buy in your shop will probably not contain all of the bran,
though it will be better than using white flour. The problem you may find
 a subject covered in earlier digests ) that the wheat used at the mill
would be predominantly hard endosperm wheats - breadmaking varieties.

Your US home-grown breadmaking wheats are very hard, and tend to have a high
gluten level compared to the low gluten, soft endosperm wheats used in the
brewing industry in Europe.

High protien is linked to high nitrogen levels too, so beware the haze in
the beer! Mind you, for a proper rendition of Hoegaarden, it must be hazy!!

The most popular wheat for brewing is one called Riband, this is a Class 3
wheat (European classification) and is gradually being by it's siblings -
Consort and Claire. EDME wheat malt extract is made using these varieties.
So if you want to add wheat to your mix, and you want the right stuff but
can't get European raw wheat (I suppose I could start up a business to ship
you some!!), try EDME Wheat Malt Extract. I would go as far to say that
Munton's would be the same, as the last time I delivered grain to their
maltings, there was only the one variety marked up on the bin listing, and
that was Riband.

Strangely enough, Riband, is the most popular wheat variety used by the
Scottish malsters for Distilling.


Regards

Rob Compton

===================================================================
Get paid to surf the web, tell your friends, and get paid while they surf
too!
Check out: http://www.teamdangerous.com
Links, Motorsport, A look a the lighter side of Amateur Radio, Homebrewing
and more
===================================================================




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:25:54 -0800
From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: I don't think Color is important.

I am not trying to be an ass. While I thought the discussions about how to
measure beer color were technically interesting, I wanted to at least raise
my hand and say that I (for one?) don't think beer color is important, even
when it comes to targeting a specific style.

The reason I don't think color is important is that I think that the driver
is flavor. Whenever you attempt to duplicate a style, you are using a
similar grainbill to that used by the original. So, by and large, whatever
you end up with is almost certainly within the normal color range of the
original.

Or let's say that you are trying to brew a light color style with higher
alkalinity water than the original beer. Eg. brewing Pilsner nearly anywhere
else in the world. You are trying to target a particular malt flavor. If you
add darker malts to balance your alkalinity, you are going to end up missing
your malt flavor target to achieve the right mash. Therefore, you need to
change your brewing water, therefore your grainbill and color will end up
being within the normal range.

I know that most of you (Spencer, AJ, et al.) realize all this and that
Color's Importance is not what you were discussing exactly, but I have seen
many new all-grainers in our club and on the newsgroup, that try to develop
calculations for predicting color and get wrapped around the axle trying to
control it in their brewing. So what I want to say is: "Don't; it is not
important." If you get the other flavor parameters right, and your brewing
procedures are good so that clarity is not an issue, then proper color will
follow naturally.

My nickel,
John Palmer
Monrovia, CA
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 12:32:53 -0500
From: "Charles E. Mryglot" <cmryglot at progress.com>
Subject: Black and Tan, half and half, etc.

Folks,

WHat are the qualities in 2 different brews that make them separate as
Guiness and Bass do.  e.g. how should I brew two brews that will separate to
make a black and tan....

cheers

chuckm



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 22:58:48 -0700
From: Robert Johnson <robertcj at lamar.colostate.edu>
Subject: MCAB

With MCAB II coming up quickly, I have been looking for information on
entires (e.g., where to send them, entry forms, etc.).  Will this info
be arriving in the mail, or will it be posted on the website?  Private
emails ok.

Thanks in advance

Bob Johnson



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 13:44:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu>
Subject: Follow up on water filter question

 


Hello all,

	A quick follow up to a question I asked some weeks back:  I
inquired about whether or not it's a good idea to run hot water (~120F)
through an activated carbon filter (hoping to knock about 25 minutes
off of my mash in time in the morning.)  A professional filter guy
responded that activated charcoal tends to give off all of the accumulated
crud it's adsorbed when heated above 100F or so.  So keep those filters
cool....

	I wonder what my "hot charcoal bitter" is going to taste like?
Could be ugly....

   			Paul Shick 
 			Basement brewing in Cleveland Hts OH

 



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 13:52:28 EST
From: DakBrew at aol.com
Subject: Wheat Flower ?

Following the Wheat flower whit beer thread I am curious as to weather the 
wheat flower needs to be gelatinized (correct term)? By boiling before adding 
to the Mash? If not why is wheat flower different from Corn meal or Rice?
I like the Idea of using wheat flower but would like to avoid carrying excess 
starch over from the mash. Or would not boiling just affect the amount of 
conversion from starch to sugar?

Dan Klinglesmth
about 450 miles south south east of 0/0 Renner


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 12:59:48 -0600
From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com>
Subject:  corks

Sherfey writes:

>OK, asuming that it's the cork that adds that final touch to BDG, is anybody
>out there willing to admit they have tried dry corking their beers?.  Sounds
>like a fun thing to do.  Perhaps even toasting the corks a bit could bring
>out more cork character.


I dont know if it is due to mellanoid reactions, a calcium defficienty, 
or excess tannins leaching from the cork, but my corked beers 
definately develop a musty celler flavor with time.  It really adds 
the "final touch" to some of my big brews and I enjoy the flavor. 
The flavor does take a while (6 to 8 months) to develop.  But since 
these types of beer are ment to last, waiting is not a problem. 

Anyway, I brew a  Bier De Garde every year or so and try to 
cork at least a case of champagne bottles.  Whenever I 
make barley wine I also cork a case or two.   I use straight 
wine corks that I get at my local brewing supply shop.  
My bench capper has a handy corking device that works 
very well.  After corking, I seal the bottles with a standard 
crown cap.  I tried it without the crown caps once and had 
a few bottles push their corks out.  Wire cages work too, 
but the crown caps are easier.

Paul Niebergall
Burns & McDonnell
pnieb at burnsmcd.com
"Illegitimis non carborundum"



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 14:13:41 -0500
From: Nina Cohen <nina at swva.net>
Subject: many thanks to all

        A while ago, I wrote asking some advice about repitching yeast,
possible factors that might explain very different results from our first
few brews, and other stuff.  I was amazed and most gratified at the many
helpful responses I got.  There were far too many for me to thank you all
personally, but I must say that this is the best and most helpful of the
half-dozen or so lists I subscribe to on various topics. 
         Some of the nicest replies came from folks in my area inviting me
to attend the next meeting of the local homebrew club in Roanoke, Star City
Brewers.  Unfortunately, a family emergency called me away from home, so I
was unable to attend.  I will continue to be out of town doing what's got
to be done for some time, but will attend the next meeting I can get to.
Sounds like a great way to further my nascent homebrewing career along and
meet some fun people to boot.

Salut,

Nina Cohen
usually in Floyd, VA, but currently in Whitefish, MT (where at least
there's good microbrews!)
nina at swva.net 


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 16:22:33 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: more microwave maddness!

OK, so I repeated the superheated water in the microwave trick. This time I
insulated the thermometer shaft above the water line where steam can
condense. It still worked. The highest I got to was 104 degC but this was
hard to achieve w/o precipitating a massive boil-over. My microwave is
soaked!

Next week I'll run some poodles...

 -Alan Meeker
 Department of Urban Myth Testing
 Lazy Eight Brewery
 Baltimore, MD



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:36:27 -0500 (EST)
From: MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA <mmaceyka at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Yeast looks and growth, and corks

Howdy,

On Yeast morphology: 

	Tom scoped an infected beer and saw two different morphologies of
"yeast."  I have often used a microscope to look at brwing yeast, including
1084, and it sounds like the "two yeasts" you see are in fact of the same
strain.  I often see these different morphologies in medium when the cells are
derived from a single colony.  I have attributed the differences in morphology
to be due to different stages of the cell cycle (based on budding - usually
more ovoid then spherical) or metabolic state (vacuolar size).  I don't know
what the stain is, but it is not impossible that the same yeast would stain
differently based on metabolic state.

	I might thank that the cocci you see are the source of the infection.
Uhm, duh.  But it may be that the taste defects you note are not due to the
infection but due to problems in process.  Like the fact that you
underpitched.  Just a couple of thoughts...

Yeast Growth:

	Another thought, on Pat Babcocks wonder-foam stopper.  If this stopper
allows air through, then I am not at all suprised that those yeast would grow
more quickly and come to a higher density.  Contrary to Dana Edgall's idea
that you don't get much air into a flask (though he was talking about a
stirred flask, which is better for this), I have grown yeast in closed (but
not sealed) flasks in medium that required O2 for growth.  Oxygen gets in.

On Corks:

	I have often assumed that the "musty" flavor was due to the fact that
the beer was corked (either coming from cork contact or gas exchange).  So
when a bunch of Unibroue flooded the mid-Atlantic a few years ago, I bought a
bunch and did a bit of an experiment.  I bought some La Fin Du Monde, both in
capped and corked bottles.  The beer pretty much the same at the time I bought
it (though the corked bottle were a little less carbonated).  After a year or
more of cellaring, the corked but not capped bottle developed a flavor I have
often associated with all the "clearance" corked Belgians and which I assume
are old and I assume have the flavor we are all talking about.  Alan Meeker
and I have have bottled a barley wine in both capped and corked bottles, but
the corks didn't make a great seal and perhaps enough time hasn't passed to
develop the "cork" flavor we are looking for, because the corked bottle sdon't
have it.  Just some "data," and I'll report later with more as this batch
ages.


Mike Maceyka
Baltimore and Takoma Park, MD





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 16:32:51 -0800
From: "Troy Hager" <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Refrigeration Unit

Fellow Hombrewers,

I have a SS conical fermentor and want to build a small lagering box to
control the temperature of my fermentation and lagering.

What I would like is a small sized, self contained cooling unit able to
chill down to about 30F - something like a small version of the cooling
units they use on walk-in coolers.

If anyone has any tips and pointers about building a cooling box and the
availability of small cooling units, I would be very appreciative.

Private email is good.

Thanks,

Troy


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:07:29 -0500
From: Glenn Matthies <borst at wzrd.com>
Subject: CP bottle filler

Greetings,
I have a question regarding bottling with a CP (Counter pressure, not
Charlie P) bottle filler.
I CP bottled an oatmeal stout last month.  It was fermented (OG 1.046) 1
week in the primary with Windsor Ale yeast (dry) and racked to a secondary.
 It spent 10 days in the secondary.  The stout was kegged in a corny keg at
8 psi at 55 F.  After a week, I bottled into four 1 liter ez-cap swing top
bottles.  I ran the bottles through the dishwsher w/o detergent and used
the hot dry setting to sanatize.  I covered the tops with aluminum foil and
chilled in the brewing refridgerator.  I CP bottled without incident.  Two
days later I took one bottle to a homebrew tasting.  The stout was slightly
drier that the original kegged version.  Two weeks later, I took another
bottle to a brew club meeting.  The beer was now very dry and had a fine
sediment in the bottle.  It appears the yeast started back up again after
bottling.  The kegged stout has not continued to ferment.
What happened?  Why did the fermentation restart?  How can this be
prevented?    

TIA
Glenn Matthies  in Lockport, NY  (a hop, skip and jump frrom Pete Calinski)





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 21:28:52 -0500
From: "Angie and Reif Hammond" <arhammond at mediaone.net>
Subject: And another thermometer

My favorite thermometer is the

Long Stem Thermometer
SKU# EW-90205-00
$24.00

from Cole Palmer  http://www.coleparmer.com

It is a digital thermometer with an 8 inch long stem which is great for
checking the temperature in the middle of the mash, or of a chicken on the
grill without burning your fingers.  My wife uses a it lot for cooking along
with proofing yeast for bread.

Reif Hammond



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 06:09:59 -0800
From: Bob Wilcox <bobw at sirius.com>
Subject: Lighter Fluid

Matt Comstock wrote

I paraphrase his paraphrase

>SOLUTION OF THE SECRET OF ALCOHOLIC FERMENTATION
>because of the discharge if excrements. These
>animals evacuate ethyl alcohol from  their
>bowels and carbon dioxide from their urinary
>organs. Thus one  can observe how a specifically
>lighter fluid is exuded from the anus and rises
>vertically whereas a stream of carbon dioxide is
>ejected at very short intervals from their
>large genitals."
>by Fredrich Woehier and Justus Von Liebig
>Published in the annals of Chemistry Volume 29,
1839

Lighter fluid is exuded from the anus?

Where the heck is Fouch.  No really.  Did I miss
a comment here?

I don't think they were talking  Zippo lighter fluid here. Fluid that is
lighter then other fluid.

Bob Wilcox
Alameda & Long Barn Ca.
bobw at sirius.com
Draught Board Home Brew Club
http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/index.htm





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 23:44:01 -0500
From: jim english <jimebob at mindspring.com>
Subject: Wierd starter and brew

Made my usual 500mL starter solution and pitched a bag of 1056 that was
so fresh it had swollen to the point of seeping from one of the seams of
said bag within 6 hours.  Good start IOW.

All appeared normal for a day, or so, but the "krausen" never fell.  Not
for five days!  The "beer" under the foam looked normal, but a thick
layer of brown topped foam never redisolved.  It smelled OK, albeit a
little phenolic.
I forgot to sample the "beer" and that may have been a big mistake.  I'm
starting to worry it was contaminated.

I followed my usual protocol (i.e. a strong iodophor solution for plenty
of time and a quick rinse with tap water...not ideal but adequate lots
of times in the past) to sanitize the mason jar I make starters in.  I
don't think the sanitizer caused a problem as there was ample evidence
of a good fermentation and the "beer" cleared pretty well.

Now as to the brew itself.  I seem to have read of the phenomenon I am
experiencing in the HBD before but cannot recall what the consensus was.

I boil and cool in converted keg with an immersion coil.  The cold break
I get in the fermenter (carboy) is usually rather fine and settles
readily.  Not this time.  Frankly it looks disgusting.  Big, cottony
globs, floating at all levels of the carboy.  When disturbed they seem
to want to float to the top.
They must settle, but verrrrry slowly.  Also my fermentation is real
sluggish.

My plan is to let it ferment for three or four days and see if the yeast
gets a little livelier, and if not, to pitch some additional dry
(perhaps champagne) yeast to help out what are, obviously, some subpar
yeasties.

Once I feel the brew is adequatly attenuated, I may just crash cool it
to settle out the rest of the "stuff", if it's still floating around in
there.  I suspect it's just some proteiny "stuff" (scientific jargon
alert) and no big whuff, but it sure is scary looking.

Anybody out there encounter either of these anomalies?

JRE in 'hotlanta



Return to table of contents

---