---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  chiller redux (Jim Adwell)
  Yeast Q's- Louis Bonham- Dr. Cone ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Dr. Cone's comments (Rick Olivo)
  Yeast Q's-Fred Johnson- Dr. Cone ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Smooth Stout (phil sides jr)
  Re: NYC Trip (phil sides jr)
  Burrawho? ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  NYC trip (John Baxter Biggins)
  too much sulfite (Scott Birdwell)" <defalcos at insync.net>
  Rob Moline (FredScheer)
  RE: Smooth Stout (Gravel Stephen E NPRI)
  Re: Smooth Stout (Gravel Stephen E NPRI)
  sanitizing spray bottle (Marc Sedam)
  Berliner Weisse - Woodruff Syrups ("Donald D. Lake")
  Yeast Q's-Wendell Ose- Dr. Cone ("Rob Moline")
  Yeast Q's- Michael Rose- Dr. Cone ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Jethro Gump (Susan/Bill Freeman)
  Pre-boil topping off ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Patent Infringment? (DakBrew)
  NHC 2000 2nd Round Judges ("Gary Glass")
  Minneapolis ("Carrol D. McCracken")


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival - entry deadline May 15th
* More info at:  http://www.hotv.org/fest2000

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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 20:44:44 -0400
From: Jim Adwell <jimala at apical.com>
Subject: chiller redux

Since reading the comments about shaking my immersion chiller, I've been
feeling mighty low-tech lately, what with Dr. Pivo's "jump valve chiller
shaker" and now Phil Y's "rapid cooling parallel immersion chiller" (what's
that all about?), so I buckled down this morning before brewing and made a
motorized wort stirrer from an ice cream maker motor and polyethylene
food-grade stir blade, some 1/2 copper pipe, and a SS hose clamp.  I
mounted the whole thing on an aluminum cookie sheet, which rests on the rim
of my 9 gallon pot.  It runs at about 30 rpm and the blade turns inside the
immersion chiller coil under the surface of the wort.  Works almost as well
as manual shaking.

My question is, now that I have this fine high-tech wort stirrer, it
occurred to me that I might just as well use it during the boil, and turn
down the burner and thus save some fuel, the stirrer providing some of the
mechanical action of a rolling boil.  Is this a good idea? I hope so,
because my propane supplier just raised the price of a fill $1 per tank, up
to $10.  I could drive 60 miles round trip and get it for $8, but somehow
that seems sort of dumb. :) 

Cheers, Jim

Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://home.ptdprolog.net/~jimala/brewery/


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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:34:38 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: Yeast Q's- Louis Bonham- Dr. Cone

Dr. Cone:
While you were at MCAB I last year, in a conversation with Houston
meadmaker
Leroy Gibbons you detailed a pitching / rousing / feeding program for mead
that was radically different from what most of us had seen.  As I recall,
it
involved adding small amounts of nutrient at various times after the
initial
pitch, and then shaking / stirring the mead to rouse the yeast and
eliminate dissolved CO2.
I know that Leroy has had *very* good results with this program, and now
raves about it.  (His meads that were produced using it have also won many
awards.)  Would you be so kind as to detail this routine for the HBD
collective?
Thanks again for your great participation in the HBD!
All the best -- Louis K. Bonham



Louis,
Thanks for asking about Mead production.  Your outline covers the essence
of the subject very well.  I will briefly elaborate on  the on the subject.

  Several years ago, I visited about 50 Meadaries in several countries. It
was not uncommon to find fermentations that had not completed  after 3, 6
and even 9 months. It was accepted that this was normal.  Perhaps the bees
had put preservatives in the honey to protect it from spoilage and this was
what made the fermentations so sluggish.  Slow fermentations were accepted
as part of mead making; it might even be necessary, to produce the best
mead.

At that time I began to do studies on 'difficult' fermentations: honey,
corn syrup, rice syrup, cane sugar, highly polished juice from concentrates
and ultra filtered single strength juice. It quickly  became  apparent that
they had all or part of the following problems in common (honey, corn
syrup, rice syrup and cane sugar has all of the problems, concentrates and
ultra filtered juice have part of the problem):

1). Little to no available nutrients for the yeast.  It would take 1 - 2
pounds of a well balanced yeast nutrient like Fermaid K plus 2- 4  pounds
of Diammonium phosphate  per 1000 gallons of fermenting material to make
the yeast happy. Subsequent research by others indicates that adding the
Fermaid K at the beginning and adding the DAP in increments over the first
half of the fermentation is the very best way to feed the yeast.

2). There is little to no buffering material present to prevent the pH from
dropping dramatically during the first few hours of the fermentation. With
honey, corn syrup and other straight sugar fermentations the pH can drop
from 4.8 down to as low as 2.7  within the first 12 hours, seriously
stressing the yeast.  The yeast often never recover and result in a long
drawn out fermentation of many months. Some grape juice loose a great deal
of their buffering material (potassium) when being preparing for
evaporation.  It is necessary to monitor the pH drop during the first 12 -
24 hours to be sure that it does not drop below 3.2.  For those with out a
pH meter, the addition of one pound of a carbonate such as sodium or
potassium carbonate before the 12th hour should minimize the pH problem.

3). Usually there is no vitamin B1 available for the yeast.  The Fermaid K
will supply this vitamin.

4) Usually there is a deficiency of O2 in the must  during the growth phase
of the yeast.  Leave the air lock off and agitate the fermenting material
several times for the first 24 - 36 hours will supply enough O2 for the
yeast to produce the necessary lipids to act as a growth factor and protect
the cell walls against the alcohol toxicity near the end of the
fermentation.  Put the air lock on after the first 24 - 36  hours and take
the usual precautions to protect against the presents of O2 after this.

5). There are no particulate matter present.  Yeast are sociable creatures.
They like to snuggle up to something in order to do their best work. With
out particulate matter, the yeast tend to settle rapidly to the bottom
before the vigorous fermentation begins. Many of the yeast cells remain on
the bottom and never get back up where the action is. This occures again
near the end of the fermentation when there is very little activity to keep
them up in suspension.  The addition of 1 - 2 pounds of a product like Vi -
A - Dry Inactive Dry Yeast - yeast hulls and  an occasional stirring during
the first 48 hours and the last few days will prevent the settling and
remedy the problem.

6). CO2 under pressure as in commercial beer fermentation or in the lower
part of a tall fermenter or when the fermenting material is supersaturated
with CO2 can be toxic to the yeast.  This usually is a very minor problem,
however, when the yeast is under stress for other reasons, it can be just
enough of an added stress to cause a sluggish fermentation. An occasional
agitation will release excess CO2.  Watch out for foaming.

Adhere to good sanitary practices.

Follow the Yeast rehydration instructions.

Use temperature to control fermentation rates and kind of ester profile: 85
 - 90 F should take less than 1, 60F should take about  2 - 3 weeks.

When you have completed the fermentation you can then decide how long you
want the mead or wine to remain on the yeast.  If you want it to be light,
fresh and fruity, you can remove the yeast and filter immediately.  If you
desire some yeasty tones and perhaps a little oak  you can leave it on the
yeast  and or in the barrel as long as you desire.

With a reasonably rapid fermentation, you can decide on how long you want
leave the fermented material on the yeast and age it.  With a sluggish
fermentation, the yeast is in command and decides how long.

With a health, vigorous  fermentation you will get the very best flavor and
aroma profile out of your chosen yeast.

Clayton Cone


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:37:07 -0500
From: Rick Olivo <strangebrewer at centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: Dr. Cone's comments

Just for the record:
In yesterday's HBD, Dr. Cone made this observation:

I hope that Dr. Nam Sung Wang did not really mean that "all cells
degenerate from the same parent." Also, I believe that "Using a plate you
would also "clone" not "cone" your yeast stock- - - - - - .

I was rather confused by these two word usages myself. I took "degenerate"
to mean "originate" as "degenerate" has several rather ominous connotations
that I feel fairly certain Dr. Nam Sung Wang did not mean to imply. I
rather thought "cone" meant "clone" but again, I was not willing to put
words in the good Doctor's mouth. I got a (charitable) C in my college "Bio
for Dummies 101" class so I wasn't sure if these were specialized terms not
known to dolts like me. It is heartening to know that others are "search
and destroy" keyboarders too. At any rate, Many thanks to Dr. Cone
(Spelling IS correct!) for his kind confirmation of my own experience.



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:41:56 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: Yeast Q's-Fred Johnson- Dr. Cone

From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Aerobic Yeast Propagation
Yeast question for Dr. Clayton Cone:

I understand that in aerobic yeast propagation the goal is to provide
a continuous supply of oxygen and glucose to an actively growing,
non-fermenting culture in order to maximize biomass and minimize
(eliminate) ethanol production.  To do so one must provide glucose so
that the concentration of glucose in the culture never exceeds about
0.4% (w/v).  Otherwise, the yeast will shift into fermenting the
glucose. Thus, one must continuously infuse glucose at a rate that
matches its utilization, which I assume increases exponentially as the
biomass increases exponentially.  (Please correct me if I am wrong on
any of the above.)

The best means of controlling the glucose concentration in the medium
would be to continuously monitor the glucose concentration in the
culture and to adjust the glucose infusion rate accordingly.  However,
without a means of monitoring glucose concentrations, I would like to
estimate the rate of glucose utilization of the culture from published
literature values and infuse accordingly.  Can you (or anyone else)
provide me the approximate rate of glucose utilization for an aerobic,
non-fermenting culture in the log phase of growth, assuming doubling
times of 2 hours?

I assume the units would be something like moles glucose/min/g biomass
or moles glucose/min/million cells.
 - ---
Fred L. Johnson


Fred Johnson,
I do not have the exact data that you are looking for at my finger tips.  I
am heading for the airport in a few hours for a three week business trip to
Germany, Austria, Hungary and Czech Rep. and do not have time to do your
question justice.  I will be back in touch with you when I return.

The sugar to biomass transfer is a simple calculation if you do not take
into account effeciency, bubble size, O2 transfer at different times during
the fermentation,  temperature, Nitrogen and Phosphate and other nutrient
additions, and osmotic pressure.

You might be interested in the fact that we do not monitor the sugar level
in the fermentation at any one moment by sugar analyses.  We monitor the
O2/ CO2 ratio in the stack gas to determine the desired O2 / glucose
balance.  We increase or decrease both the air and sugar feed as desired to
achieve optimum biomass/optimum cell composition and optimum yeast
synchrony.

Tell me a little bit about your interest in this subject.

Clayton


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 01:16:03 -0400
From: phil sides jr <psides at technologist.com>
Subject: Re: Smooth Stout

Gravel Stephen E NPRI <GravelSE at Npt.NUWC.Navy.Mil> wrote:

>I brewed a Foreign Extra Stout recently and it came out pretty good.
It
>took second place in the SSBC Brewoff 2000.  However, I sampled the
first
>place winner and noticed a nice smooth almost creamy texture to the
beer

I have tasted classic Foreign Extra Stouts from all over the world and
have never encountered one that I would characterize as smooth.  Some
are creamy, but all of them are quite high in OG (1.060 or so) and the
alcohol is evident.  Additionally, they are often assertively dry and
bitter.

I judged your beer.  If you email me privately with some of my comments
I might recall something useful to share with you about yours
specifically.

>that mine was lacking, it reminded me of the Young's Double Chocolate
Stout
>(although, not quite as good).  I have several questions:

>1.  How do they get the smooth creamy flavor?

I suspect what you are talking about is oatmeal and/or flaked oats.  I
really think of oatmeal as adding more of a mouthfeel/sensation rather
than contributing a flavor. The only flavor I have ever noticed from the
addition of oatmeal is a slight nutiness.   It imparts a slickness or
smoothness as you call it and is sometimes perceived as oily or silky.
I do not have specific knowledge of the Young's Double Chocolate Stout
recipe formulation, but Young's Oatmeal Stout is the BJCP's classic
example of an oatmeal stout.  Michael Jackson and Michael Lewis both
describe Young's Oatmeal Stout as "...very smooth with a touch of oily
dryness..."

>(I was told that an addition of Lactic Acid would do the trick.)

>2.  If this is correct, how much Lactic Acid would be recommended for a
5
>gallon batch?

>4.  Is Lactic Acid the key ingredient, or is there another way to
achieve
>this smooth creamy texture/flavor?

I think what the person was referring to was lactose (milk sugar) which
is mostly unfermentable by beer yeasts.  This is the essential
ingredient in Sweet Stout aka Milk or Cream Stout which contributes
residual sugar and fullness to the mouthfeel/body, but this does not
appear to be the type of Stout you are interested in brewing.

Lactic acid is definitely NOT the ingredient you are looking for
regardless of the type of Stout you are brewing; there is sufficient
acidity in the roasted grains to buffer virtually any alkaline potable
water supply.

Phil Sides, Jr.
Concord, NH
- --
Macht nicht o'zapft ist, Prost!




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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 01:58:53 -0400
From: phil sides jr <psides at technologist.com>
Subject: Re: NYC Trip

"Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> asks:

>My next trip is NYC this Saturday till Tuesday. My wife has a
conference at the
>Downtown Manhattan Hilton (1335 Avenue of the Americas).  I suspect
that since
>my father-in-law Bailed out, I being the lone male (9.5 mo old
daughter, wife,
>her Mother, Aunt and Sister) I will get (demand) more time to do some
>beerexploration. So Where should I go? I have heard that Manhattan is
not a
>brewpub mecca, but being the largest import/export city in the world,
has to
>have some beer advantages somewhere. Quality Multi-taps???  Is there a
place
>like Sam's Wherehouse in Chicago??? All help, hints, and tips
appreciated. and
>if any of you NYC HBD'rs want to meet for a Pint somewhere, I am
definatly up

My current favorite place to have a pint in the city (this changes from
time-to-time) is d.b.a. on 1st Avenue (Midtown East).  It is really
beyond description - you kinda just have to experience it.  Lots of taps
and a great selection...

As far as brewpubs go, I can recommend Chelsea Brewing Company at the
Chelsea Pier (Lower West Side).  Be sure to plan a meal here.  Great
food and great beer.

I would specifically NOT recommend Times Square Brewery.  The location
is probably the best of any BP in the city but the beers aren't even
average and the food is lousy.  Having said that though, I am reminded
that I seem to always pop in for a pint and some people watching when I
am in town.  Maybe it's not that bad ;-)

Commonwealth Brewing Company in Rockefeller Plaza is top quality.  I
don't recall eating anything there, but I do remember the excellent
beers.

The Heartland Brewery at Union Square is an essential visit if for no
other reason, the historical significance.  The building used to be the
headquarters of the National Temperance Movement.  The beer is a good
reason to go to; I had a memorable Oatmeal Stout there.

As far as plain old pubs go, virtually every place on the island with a
standard has a Brooklyn Brewery tap or two.  Garrett Oliver does not
produce a less than excellent beer IMO...  The Irish pubs are great as
well; I find them to be quite authentic.

Overall, New York is a very good beer town.  There is a big selection of
beers available and the different places have quite varied selections.
Just explore, I seem to find the good places by accident.

Phil Sides, Jr.
Concord, NH
- --
Macht nicht o'zapft ist, Prost!




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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:44:56 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Burrawho?

Dave Burley asks:
>Phil, you do know what "Burrabadoo" means in Abo, don't >you?

Can't say I do Dave. Don't know where it is and don't know what it means.

I can tell you what Burradoo means in abo (BTW, "abo" should be
"aboriginal"), I know you don't intend it but in this modern day "abo" is
considered offensive.

Burradoo means "many brigalow trees"
I have also heard it to mean "place of many springs"

I can tell you where the Burradoo Hilton is.
And what it means.
It is a great spot on a Friday night where dedicated locals drink
extensively then crawl up to the second floor, lurch out onto the verandah
and vomit heavily on patrons eating their dinner in the courtyard below.

This is the place at which Jeff Renner felt disinclined to stay. Now why
would he have wanted to miss out on such a fun night?

Personally
Friday nights I prefer in the Billiard Room

Phil




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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:00:22 -0400
From: John Baxter Biggins <jbbiggin at med.cornell.edu>
Subject: NYC trip

The Malted Barley Appreciation Society, Brooklyn's homebrew club has a beer
& brewpub alert page w/ constant updates of tap lists for the major beer
places

http://www.hbd.org/mbas

In Manhattan, must go-to's are DBA and Blind Tiger.  The Ginger Man has the
most variety, but go only on weekend (Sat & Sun afternoons are great --
check the times) when it's nice & quiet.  DO NOT go on a weekday
night...the place is packed & smoky & good beer cannot be savored with the
massive crowd.  If you can, go into Brooklyn to Sparky's.  Worthwhile
brewpubs are Heartland & Commonwealth.  Heartland midtown location &
Commonwealth are a couple blocks from each other at Rockefeller center,
which is right around the corner from the midtown Hilton.  You can also
walk a few extra blocks to Typhoon on 54th & Madison.  If you are in the
Times Square area, stop into the Times Square Brewery for an educational
visit to the best possible location for a brewpub on Earth selling some of
the worst swill ever created.  Then walk a few blocks to the Collins Bar
which has a decent selection.

My $0.02.

 -jb


- -------------------
John B. Biggins
Cornell University Medical College
Weill Graduate School of Medical Sciences
Student -- Program in Pharmacology

Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center
Laboratory for Biosynthetic Chemistry
Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Therapeutics
lab:(212)693-6405   fax:(212)717-3135
http://www.ski.edu/lab_homepage.cfm?lab=189

	"Science, like Nature, must also be tamed
	   With a view towards its preservation.
	 Given the same state of integrity
	   It will surely serve us well."
	    -- Neil Peart; Natural Science (III) -- Permanent Waves




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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:21:19 -0500
From: "DeFalco's (Scott Birdwell)" <defalcos at insync.net>
Subject: too much sulfite


Dan Listermann asked,
"I am very sorry to come before this august assemblage and bother you
with a
non beer question, but I know of nowhere else to turn.

For those of you who "have had more chemistry than the average brewer" a

question.  One of my customers botched a 3 gallon batch of Vintner's
Harvest elderberry wine by misreading the instructions.  He was supposed
to
make a sulfite solution with 5 tsp of sodium bisulfite in a cup of
water.
The instructions call for 3 tsp of this solution to sterilize the must.
He
used 3 tsp of sodium bisulfite powder to sterlize the must.  Needless to

say, it won't ferment despite a prolonged peroid of venting.  Is there
any
hope for the must?  Is there a way to reduce the sulfer?  Can he make
jelly/syrup out of it?"

Dan, Dan, my man!
    Jack's right. . .you can keep adding yeast to it and it will
eventually kick off when the SO2 level drops below the sulfite tolerance
of the yeast strain.  You can speed this up, however.  Aeration of the
must will help dissipate the excess SO2, (i.e. pour it back and forth
between pails).  You can always help the aeration out by the addition of
hydrogen peroxide (yep, that "drug store" hydrogen peroxide).  I've done
a little research and the texts are not real helpful concerning how much
to add (one of my staff members insists there was something about this
in one of the issues of Brew Your Own magazine, but we can't find it).
My recommendation is to start out "light," e.g. one teaspoon for the
three gallons, pour the must back and forth a few times to help mix it
in and release the SO2 gas, then check the SO2 level with Titretts.  As
the shampoo bottle sez, "Lather, rinse, and repeat" until you've got the
level down to a workable level.  It'll be O.K. No need to make jelly or
syrup out of it.  Hope this helps.  Later. . .

Scott Birdwell
DeFalco's Home Wine & Beer Supplies
"Heppin' wino's since 1971!"

"Again, my apologies for disturbing the beer force field."

Say twenty "Hail, Noonan's" and go forth and Zin no more.



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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:33:06 EDT
From: FredScheer at aol.com
Subject: Rob Moline

Fellow Brewers:

I would like to thank Rob for all his efforts
to bring Brewers of all levels together to share their knowledge.
I wish he could do the same on the IBS Technical Forum, which
is not as active (at all) as the HBD forum.
His efforts should not be granted, we should thank him for it.
Rob, I hope you stay at the HBD forum and further bring
people from all levels of Brewing, Malting (and suppliers) here
to discuss what ever they have to say.
Further, we should not forget that he spends lot of times
to contact people to be on the forum; which needs time.
Therefore, I also would like to acknowledge his company,
who is kind enough to let him to so.
Believe me, it would be easy for his company to have him
spent his efforts elsewhere.
Keep up the good work.

Fred M. Scheer
BOSCOS, Nashville, TN




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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:34:33 -0400
From: Gravel Stephen E NPRI <GravelSE at Npt.NUWC.Navy.Mil>
Subject: RE: Smooth Stout


Subject: Smooth Stout

Phil says:

>I have tasted classic Foreign Extra Stouts from all over the world and
>have never encountered one that I would characterize as smooth.  Some
>are creamy, but all of them are quite high in OG (1.060 or so) and the
<snip>

I guess I should have been more specific, the beer that I entered as a
Foreign Extra Stout originally started out as an all-grain Imperial Stout.
I didn't hit as high a specific gravity as I would have liked (1.080) so, I
evaluated the results and thought it was more suited for the F.E.S.
category.  Yeah, I know, 1.080 is in the Imperial Stout range but, I also
realize that the bigger the beers usually place better.  I plan on modifying
this recipe in several  directions.  I want a more refined F.E.S., a bigger
Imperial Stout and I also want one like Young's Double Chocolate Stout.  

I really appreciate the constructive comments I received from Phil and Len
at the Brewoff and I'll apply them to the F.E.S. recipe to try and perfect
it.  
This was only the second competition I've entered and now I realize how much
constructive comments can help a brewer to perfect his craft.

>>1.  How do they get the smooth creamy flavor?

>I suspect what you are talking about is oatmeal and/or flaked oats.  I
>really think of oatmeal as adding more of a mouthfeel/sensation
rather<snip>

I added 1/2 lb. of instant oats for this recipe and I think I'll increase
that to 1 lb. or more for an oatmeal stout.  But, I'm not sure that's what I
was tasting...

>>(I was told that an addition of Lactic Acid would do the trick.)

>I think what the person was referring to was lactose (milk sugar) which
>is mostly unfermentable by beer yeasts. <snip>

You're right, I must have misunderstood what was said, it was late in the
afternoon and I was stewarding (read junior judge/beer drinker).  He could
have told me to put peanut butter in the beer and I would have nodded my
head yes.  I believe the Lactose is the flavor/mouth feel I was
experiencing.
 
>This is the essential ingredient in Sweet Stout aka Milk or Cream Stout
which
>contributes residual sugar and fullness to the mouth feel/body, but this
does not
>appear to be the type of Stout you are interested in brewing.

Oh, but I am interested, I am! I want to brew an F.E.S., an Imperial, an
Oatmeal and, most of all... a Double Chocolate Stout! I'm getting thirsty
just thinking of it!  

I do have another question though, when do you add the Lactose?  Do you add
it during the mash, boil, fermentation or post-fermentation?

Thanks again,

Steve

"Homebrew, it's not just a hobby, it's an adventure!"








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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:53:46 -0400
From: Gravel Stephen E NPRI <GravelSE at Npt.NUWC.Navy.Mil>
Subject: Re: Smooth Stout

Charley says:
>I add the lactose after fermentation is completed and the beer is on its
way into the secondary. I boil a pint of water, stir in the lactose, let it
cool and then drop into secondary with the beer. Lactose is not fermentable
by yeast (bacteria will eat it though). No sense in putting it in any
earlier. It will make the beer sweet.>
Thanks Charley, I'll give this a try.  I can almost taste it now, Deep Dive
Double Chocolate Stout!
Steve
Head Brewer at the Deep Dive Pico Brewery
"Homebrew, it's not just a hobby, it's an adventure!"



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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:10:09 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: sanitizing spray bottle

Jeff mentioned that he likes to keep a spray bottle of
iodophor handy, but that it loses it's color over time.

I'll suggest using Star-San instead.  It doesn't break down
quickly like iodophor and works like a champ.  It's a bit
pricey which is why I'm using it only in the spray bottle
and iodophor on everything else.  I've kept a working
solution in a spray bottle for over six months and it always
works as advertised.

Cheers!
Marc



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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:37:51 -0400
From: "Donald D. Lake" <dake at gdi.net>
Subject: Berliner Weisse - Woodruff Syrups

My next brewing session will be an attempt at a Berliner Weisse.  Does
anyone out there know of a source for the Woodruff & Raspberry syrups
that traditionally compliment this style?

Private email are OK

Don Lake
dlake at amuni.com



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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:52:24 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: Yeast Q's-Wendell Ose- Dr. Cone

From: Osew at aol.com
Subject: Dr. Cone

Dr. Cone,
Should I oxygenate/aerate my wine juice/must before pitching the dry Lalvin
starter or any of the liquid yeasts?

I use a stone and bottled oxygen for 1 minute on my beers.  How long should
I apply to wine?

Thank you and enjoy your retirement.  I hope all the beer and wine making
friends you have made along the way keep you well supplied with quality
beverages for the rest of your life.
Cheers, Wendell Ose, Reston, Va.


Windell,
It is always wise to aerate the must.   Usually the oxygen is wasted when
you Oxygenate/aerate before the yeast have started to multiply. The
dissolved oxygen is bound by must components and the SO2 before the yeast
has a chance to pick it up.   One - two minute of bottled oxygen at about
the 14 th hour and about the 24th. hour should be enough or 30 minutes
aeration with  regular air through a stone at 14th and 24th hour should be
adequate for a 5 gallon fermenter.

Clayton


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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:53:27 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: Yeast Q's- Michael Rose- Dr. Cone

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:02:54 -0700
From: "Michael Rose" <maltandhops at msn.com>
Subject: Questions for Dr. Cone

Dr. Cone wrote in response to a previous question,
>The low levels of polysaccharides and manoproteins in wine can be detected
>more readily because of the lighter structure of wine.  Beer already has a
>sizable amount of carbohydrates (extracts), however, who knows what
>contributions these compounds can have on beer.
>My company is in the process of building a factory to produce these
>compounds for the wine industry, you can bet that we will now explore its
>use in the brewing industry.

1. A clarification please. Is the new factory producing specialized yeast,
or the actually manoprotein compound?
2. Do you know of any other compounds (protein related, not carb related)
that can be added to beer or wine to enhance mouthfeel?
(excluding malt, barley, wheat)

Thank you again for your help!
michael rose 



Michael,
1). The factory is attempting to produce the refined manoprotein  itself.
2). I am not aware of any product that is not carbohydrate related that
will effect mouth feel.

Clayton Cone


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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 08:55:17 -0500
From: Susan/Bill Freeman <potsus at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Jethro Gump

Rob,

Your efforts on behalf of and continued support of us homebrewers is a
blessing and gets information to us that would otherwise not be
available.  Please do not take anything that some clown spouts when his
brain is not engaged to heart.  The AHA, BOA, and any other
organizations you are affiliated with benefit from your expertise and
devotion.  'Nuff said!

Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat
KP Brewery - home of "the perfesser"  http:/www.brewrats.org/hwb/er
Birmingham, AL



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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:26:11 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Pre-boil topping off

Brian Dixon wrote of "Pre-boil topping off":

>If I top off prior the boil, does
>it matter if I do it by pouring boiling water into a boiling pot of wort,
or
>is it ok to pour cooler pre-boiled (day before) water into the hot liquor
>prior to the boil?  My concern is that if I pour cooler water into
>non-boiling, but hot (125 F to 140 F) wort, will I be adding air at a bad
>time and cause HSA?  

In addition to killing bugs and precipitating temporary hardness, boiling
also drives off dissolved gasses.  I wouldn't worry too much if you treated
the water the night before, have kept it in a sanitary container and did not
aerate the water again by agitation or pouring/splashing.  It should take
quite some time for gasses to dissolve in the water "on their own".

>Note: I lose 2 gallons of water in a 90 minute boil

This number seems like an uncovered boil.  If you want to reduce the amount
of top-off water, you could partially cover your boil to reduce your
evaporation rate as well as conserve some BTUs, achieve a stronger boil and
realize a bigger hot break.  The advantages seem to cascade ;-)  I do mine
on the stovetop in two 5-gallon stainless stockpots containing 4.5 gallons
each.  I top-off any evaporated water (0.5 gallon/hr max.) with either
filtered water or with leftover spargings during the last 20 minutes or so
to keep my final volumes where I want them.  The gap in the cover is 1" at
it's widest point and I've cut my evaporation rate in half, if not more.


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato




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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:15:51 EDT
From: DakBrew at aol.com
Subject: Patent Infringment?

>>The patent expires in a year.  To avoid infringing on a useful AB patent, 
I'd skip the experiments until next June.
;-)

Cheers!
Marc
<<

Does anyone know the legal ramifications. Since we cant sell homebrew we cant 
profit from using their patent is it still infringing?

Dan K



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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 15:36:21 -0600
From: "Gary Glass" <gary at aob.org>
Subject:  NHC 2000 2nd Round Judges

Fellow Brewers,

The Second Round of the AHA National Homebrew Competition is coming up and
we need judges!  Judging will take place June 22 and 23 at the AHA National
Homebrewers Conference in Livonia, MI.  Experienced judges interested in
judging the best homebrews around should contact Rex Halfpenny at
MIBeerguyd at aol.com or (248) 628-6584.  Rex has graciously accepted the role
of local organizer for the second round of the competition.  If you are a
qualified BJCP judge he will be very happy to hear from you.

Cheers!
Gary

- -------------------------
Gary Glass, Administrator
American Homebrewers Association
Email: gary at aob.org
Web: http://www.beertown.org




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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:35:12 -0500
From: "Carrol D. McCracken" <CMcCracken at isunet.net>
Subject: Minneapolis

I was wondering if anyone could give me some information on the brewpubs
and any good home brew supply shops to visit in Minneapolis, MN.  

Private e-mails are fine.

Thanks, 

Carrol McCracken


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