---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  The Clayton Cone Report ("Rob Moline")
  Yeast Q's...Final...Gump Out ("Rob Moline")
  Cool Idea ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Berliner Weisse (Nathan Kanous)
  Patent law / Dr. Cone ("Louis K. Bonham")
  patent infringement (Marc Sedam)
  Re: sanitizing spray bottle (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Pre-boil topping off (Jeff Renner)
  Looking for good pubs. (Rod Prather)
  Big Brew Recipe ("Gary Glass")
  Re: NYC Trip/bad brewpub music (B.R. Rolya)
  double boiling (Prestoniam)
  Syrup questions HBD 3309 ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  Natural Gas Burners (John Varady)
  re: Patent infringement? (Tidmarsh Major)
  Lemon Beer ("Trevor Good")
  Rob or Dr. Cone ("Michael Rose")
  sulfury lager (Aaron Perry)
  UNYHA 22nd Annual Competition and 11th Empire Open ("Mike Kidulich")
  Warsteiner clone (William Plotner)
  Big Brew 2K (mike megown)
  Connections & corrosion (R.)" <rhampo at ford.com>
  more on connections (R.)" <rhampo at ford.com>
  NYC Trip (Ted McIrvine)
  Yes!! (root)
  Big Brew 2000 - Recipe and notes (Crispy275)
  Cardamom Tincture (Ron and Sharon)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival - entry deadline May 15th
* More info at:  http://www.hotv.org/fest2000

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:12:18 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Clayton Cone Report


Rob,
Let the HBD readers know that this has been an exciting two weeks for me.
I was very pleased at the caliber of the questions. Lets do it again.  Home
wine and home beer makers are neat people to be around.

Clayton


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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:19:05 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: Yeast Q's...Final...Gump Out

G'day,
	Dr.Cone is on his way to Europe, and I to the Craft Brewer's Conference in
Milwaukee...communications may be difficult...for a week or 2...maybe
not....(a laptop neglected for 7 months might revolt?....probably...)

	I ask 2 things....
1) If your question was not yet answered....send it again...to me at
brewer at isunet.net

2) If any of you, individually, valued any contribution from Dr.
Cone....please let him know it...by sending thanks to    jethro at isunet.net
 ....with a subject line "Dr. Cone".....and I will forward them on to
him....I think we owe this gentleman more than he realizes....and I would
like him to understand how much he is appreciated....

Cheers!
Rob

Jethro Gump

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"



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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:55:27 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Cool Idea

Jim
What you have made sounds like a great idea. Any stirring of the wort will
greatly assist the cooling procedure.

To answer your question
My parellel immersion chiller is just that. Two coils pushed together to fit
into the kettle, each with it's own intake and outlet. This I hook up to the
garden watering system and blast high pressure cold water through both coils
in parallel. Works great. But all such systems will greatly benefit from
wort stirring as you have achieved. I am sure Doc Pivo would be interested
in your invention.

This is the sort of contribution the HBD could do with more of. It certainly
doesn't need any further discussions on the habits of Burradoorians having
to wear raincoats and southwester hats for dinner in the courtyard of the
Burradoo Hilton.

But More On That Later
Phil



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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:10:51 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Berliner Weisse

Don,
Can't really give you any help on the syrups.  I'm going to get a small 
bottle of raspberry syrup used in coffee to fix that "need".  I'm going to 
go across the hall and talk to our pharmaceutical compounding guru about 
the best way to formulate a woodruff syrup.  I'm going to guess it will 
involve making a tincture of the woodruff using grain alcohol and mixing 
that with simple syrup.  Don't know, but I'll try to find out.

Can you give me any details about your Berliner Weisse recipe / 
process?  From memory, I believe I used 50% malted wheat to an OG of 1.038 
with either 1/2 or 1 ounce of crystal hop pellets in the mash.  I 
pasteurized the wort at around 190 deg F for 15 minutes or so and 
chilled.  I then pitched some lactobacillus acidophilus into the wort and 
held it at 100 deg F in a warm water bath for about 48 hours.

I was getting nervous by that point, because there was some active 
fermentation (lactobacillus) and I could detect some souring, so I pulled 
the wort out of the warm water bath and let it cool.  Once it was cool, I 
pitched a culture of WYeast 2565 Kolsch yeast and let it go.  This yeast 
seemed to have performed well in the past with a subtle tart finish so I 
thought I'd give it a go.

The brew finished a little unexceptional.   It had a limited sourness which 
fit in the middle of a fairly tame brew.  It had a little wheat flavor and 
then nothing....with a bit of sourness.  I was a little disappointed.  The 
flavors were very distinct and had not begun to blend as I'd expected.  I
didn't want to leave this brew in the fermenter forever (I think it 
ultimately had about 8 weeks) so I decided to bottle to see what happened.

I did some math and came up with 6 or 8 ounces of corn sugar to give the 
desired level of carbonation (don't remember exactly, no notes at work).  I 
also added 1 ounce of lactose.  This was based on a calculation I did a 
long time ago trying to estimate the lactic acid contribution if 
lactobacillus fully converted lactose to lactic acid.

Since then, I think the acidity has increased.  It's not as acidic as I've 
been led to believe it should be, but I've only had 1 Berliner Weisse and 
it had traveled a long way, for a long time before I got it.  Mine is very 
well carbonated.  Initially, before I bottled, this beer held a head very 
well.  Now, it's quite fleeting.  Huge head with pour that dies almost 
immediately.  Kind of like soda.  I've read this is typical for highly 
acidic beers.

The flavor of the wheat and the acidity has come together better. I 
suspected some carbonation would help this.  It's still conditioning in the 
bottle.  I'm going to label it all and toss a couple in the fridge to see 
how it comes out.  It also has a bit of flowery hoppiness from the crystal 
hops.  Not a lot, just a touch of fruity / flowery aroma and flavor.  I'm 
hopeful this turns out nice.  It's not bad, right now, I just expected more 
sourness.  Don't know about brett in this style.

So, how goes your Berliner Weisse?
nathan in madison, wi



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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:29:38 -0500
From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham at hypercon.com>
Subject: Patent law / Dr. Cone

Hi folks:

Dan K muses about the legal implications of homebrewers' use of patented
processes.  Let's look at this from two aspects: legal and practical.

(Important disclaimer: while I am an attorney, the following is not to be
construed as my giving legal advice to anyone -- it's just a public
discussion of the law is.)

(1)  Legal

35 USC 271 (a) is very clear:

"Except as otherwise provided in this title, whoever without authority
makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the
United States or imports into the United States any patented invention
during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent."

Ergo, from a legal perspective, there's no question: regardless of whether
or not you're making profit from your use of the patented process or device,
it's illegal to use it without the patent owner's permission, and doing so
can lead to all sorts of nasty things happening to you.

(2) Practical

While I must encourage everyone to respect the law and the intellectual
property rights of others, as a practical matter major brewers are not
likely to want to pursue a homebrewer's limited noncommercial use of their
patented technology.  (Recall that the methods for making Zima and the "ice
brewing" process are also covered by patent.)  Indeed, I suspect that if we
asked them nicely, AB would probably indicate that they would not enforce
the patent against noncommercial use of this technology.  (I'll see if I can
find out who handles AB's patent prosecution and make a couple of telephone
calls.)

But until AB gives such permission, the law's the law, and they would be
well within their legal rights to enforce their patent.
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Three cheers for Dr. Cone!  His recent contributions to the HBD are truly
invaluable.

For some of you who may not have realized how incredibly lucky we all have
been to have Dr. Cone's recent participation (and how much thanks we all owe
Rob Moline and Lallemand for making this possible), allow me to relate a
little anecdote.

While putting together the speakers for MCAB I, I had been trying to get Dr.
Chris White of WhiteLabs to fly in and speak at the conference.  (Needless
to say, Chris White knows more than a bit about yeast and brewing. ;-) ) Our
conversation went something like this:

LKB:  So, can we count you in?
CW:   Well, I'd really like to but I don't know if I'll be able to make it
out.
LKB:   Well, we'd really like to have you; it's gonna be a really good
conference.  We've got George Fix, Paul Farnsworth, Dave Miller, Dr. Cone,
Ralph Olsen . . .
CW:    Wait a minute.  Did you say Dr. Cone?
LKB:    Yes.
CW:    CLAYTON Cone?
LKB:    Yeah, Dr. Clayton Cone of Lallemand.
CW:    We're coming -- I wanna hear Dr. Cone speak.  Do you realize who he
is?

That kind of says it all.

All the best -- LKB



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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:41:27 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: patent infringement

Dan:

I was only half facetious.  The legal ramifications for
patent infringement are the same as for software piracy
(copyright infringement) and anything else where you take
someone's proprietary ideas and use them.  Now, will A-B
bring the hammer down on a bunch of homebrewers tossing a
cardamom pod in their CAPs?  I doubt it.  BUT, if you were
working at a brewery who was selling beer which utilized
cardamom as an anti-skunking agent, it's patent infringement
and you could be liable for damages in court.

The information lacking at the IBM patent server is whether
or not the patent has been abandoned.  Since no one at A-B
is promoting their skunk-free beer, maybe they don't care
about the patent and have stopped paying to keep their
rights intact.  But if Heineken starts getting better in a
year and a half, there may be something to this idea.  Ha,
ha.

I'm not an attorney (but manage intellectual property for a
living), so I imagine Lou Bonham is out there cringing at my
explanation.  The bottom line is that homebrewers shouldn't
worry about being pounced on, but I wouldn't go trying to
make a profit off anything.  A patent is a legal right.

Cheers!
Marc



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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:19:07 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: sanitizing spray bottle

Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> wrote:

>Jeff mentioned that he likes to keep a spray bottle of
>iodophor handy, but that it loses it's color over time.

Just to clarify, I wrote that I didn't see any reason to make new iodophor
every day, as seemed to have been recommended, *as long as it kept its
color.*  I keep a spray bottle around for several weeks without a
significant loss in color.  I suppose I really should get those test strips
though.

BTW, I use a "chemical resistant sprayer" (Milkhouse Brand) from the same
Fleet Farm I got the iodophor from.  I suppose it has stainless steel
parts.  It cost only a few dollars - not much more than the ordinary ones.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:23:38 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Pre-boil topping off

"Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> wrote:

>I top-off any evaporated water (0.5 gallon/hr max.) with either
>filtered water or with leftover spargings during the last 20 minutes or so
>to keep my final volumes where I want them.

Assuming you didn't mean leftover sparge water, be sure to taste those
leftover spargings (probably better called lauterings or something like
that as sparge is the water you introduce to the top).  It can often taste
pretty astringent, especially if it has been sitting on the grains during
the boil before you run it off.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:12:28 -0400
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Looking for good pubs.

I will be heading for Fairfield, CA for a business trip in a few 
weeks.  That's just North of Oakland.  I was interested in 
finding a few good brew pubs and quality beer drinking 
establishments to visit while in town.  SF, Napa or other locale 
is fine.  
- -- 
Rod Prather
Indianapolis, Indiana


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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:41:34 -0600
From: "Gary Glass" <gary at aob.org>
Subject: Big Brew Recipe

To All Big Brew Brewers:

There have been several questions posted on both the techtalk and HBD forums
about the Big Brew Recipe, so I'll try to answer as many of them with 1
email as I can.

Targets for the Nearly Nirvana Pale Ale recipe:
OG: 1.052
FG: 1.011
IBU: 46
Final Volume: 5 gallons

The recipes posted on our www.beertown.org website are intended to come
close to this, but as with any recipe, final results will depend on the
system being used.  I suggest adjusting the recipe to match your own system.
If you are unsure how to make adjustments for your brewing system, I
recommend checking out Part I of Ray Daniels' book "Designing Great Beers",
which does an excellent job of explaining how to hit target OGs and final
volumes.  But if you don't want to go to the trouble, relax, don't
worry...brew the recipe as is, it'll be great even if it doesn't come out to
exactly 5 gallons, or hit the intended OG on the money.

I'll be raising my glass to you all on May 6! Happy Brewing,

Gary Glass
- -------------------------
Gary Glass, Administrator
American Homebrewers Association
Voice: (303) 447-0816 x 121
Fax: (303) 447-2825
Email: gary at aob.org
Web: http://www.beertown.org



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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:26:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: br at interport.net (B.R. Rolya)
Subject: Re: NYC Trip/bad brewpub music


phil sides jr writes:

>My current favorite place to have a pint in the city (this changes from
>time-to-time) is d.b.a. on 1st Avenue (Midtown East)

Just to avoid any confusion, it's actually in the East Village, about 40
blocks south of midtown...

and

>The Heartland Brewery at Union Square is an essential visit if for no
>other reason, the historical significance.  The building used to be the
>headquarters of the National Temperance Movement.

It's not Heartland Brewery that's in the National Temperance Movement
former headquarters, it's the Tap Room, an Austrian brewpub (with decent
german/austrian- style beers).  Before the Tap Room, Zip City occupied this
place.  (Address:  3 W. 18th St.)

The mention of Heartland reminds me of a question that's been plaguing me
for years:  why is it that every single brewpub that I have ever been in
plays the most horrible music imaginable??  (Top honors in this category go
to Heartland in my book.  Most Amusing, however, goes to Dieu du Ciel! in
Montreal where we had the honor of witnessing "Spectacle:  30 Years of
Heavy Metal" performed with the utmost seriousness and not a trace of
irony.)  I realize that musique concrete or post-rock/math-rock isn't going
to go over well with the general public and one needs to play something
innocuous so as not to offend anyone, but the things I'm forced to listen
to while trying to enjoy a beer are just horribly insipid!  (I guess I'll
turn my rant mode off now...)


 -BR
New York City
Malted Barley Appreciation Society
http://hbd.org/mbas/




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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:44:57 EDT
From: Prestoniam at aol.com
Subject: double boiling

I'm new at all grain style.  Can you tell me if boiling about half of the 
wort in a 7.5 gal ss pot, and the other half in 5 gal ss pot until the hot 
break, and then combining the two into the larger pot for the rest of the 
boil is okay?  And should I ladle it or is just pouring from one into the 
other okay?


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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:43:25 -0700
From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com>
Subject: Syrup questions HBD 3309

Don Lake asks in HBD 3309:

"My next brewing session will be an attempt at a Berliner Weisse.  Does
anyone out there know of a source for the Woodruff & Raspberry syrups
that traditionally compliment this style?

Private email are OK

Don Lake"

I recently purchased a bottle each at a local German specialty shop, 
where they also had Berliner Kindl at what I remember as a ridiculous 
price though I paid it just the same.  Look for Waldmeister and Himbeer 
syrups.  You could also easily use the common Italian soda syrups 
though I've never seen them in Woodruff flavor.  Good luck in your quest!  
Prost!
 -Grant aka LabRat
Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei
Des Moines, WA, USA




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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:12:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net>
Subject: Natural Gas Burners

I am putting together a brewery using 30 gallon drums and have begun to
think about how I should go about heating them. I will be using Natural Gas
to heat the system and am planning on building a rack out of steel to hold
the beast.

Gas BBQ replacement burners seem like they would be a good idea. The
diameter of the drums is 18" and it would seem easy to put a 16-17" H shaped
burner under the drum with the ability to turn on/off each side of the H. SS
Replacement burners in this style run about $25 with venturi attachments. I
would also like to have knob adjustments and a igniter button for each.

Is anyone out there using such an arrangement? Anyone care to suggest
something else?

Thanks,

John
- -- 
John Varady                     http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady
Glenside, PA                    rust1d at usa.net



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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:35:36 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
From: Tidmarsh Major <ctmajor at samford.edu>
Subject: re: Patent infringement?

DanK asks whether it matters that he won't be using the 
subject of a patent for profit.

Patent law, unlike copyright law, has no fair use 
exception, so it doesn't matter how you use the technology 
covered by the patent. Practically, of course, how's the 
A-B legal dept. going to know that you're adding cardamom?

Not that I'm in any way suggesting the use of said patent 
even one minute before the patent expires on June 21, 2000 
(I wouldn't dream of contributing to anyone's patent 
infringement), but the patent does seem to be a useful 
summertime brewing trick to protect against in-the-glass 
skunking on those soon to arrive long summer afternoons and 
evenings.

I notice from the table at the end of the patent that in 
addition to cardamom (mmm . . . witbier) that peppermint 
and rosemary are effective (though above flavor threshhold 
levels).  A few years ago, I brewed a rosemary IPA that 
turned out very nicely.  I think I'll try it again (come 
June 21 ;-) as a summer brew.  I don't have my recipe notes 
at hand, but I left out the flavor and aroma hops on an IPA 
and replaced them with 2 oz. of fresh rosemary leaves added 
to a 5 gal batch just before knockout.  

Regards,
Tidmarsh Major
Birmingham, Alabama



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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:29:00 -0600
From: "Trevor Good" <t.good at printwest.com>
Subject: Lemon Beer

Dear Group,
My mom and sister are quite fond of the lemon ade style beer that has
recently hit the Canadian market. In a moment of weakness (read ' I had a
couple ') I promised to brew them some. After a while I figured they forgot,
but as luck would have it they keep reminding me that summer is coming and
lemonade beer would be great.
Problem though, I have no idea how to get that lemonade flavor in beer. The
only idea I had was taking frozen concentrated lemonade and adding that. If
you have any ideas how much to add or any other ideas it would be hugely
appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Looking forward to summer in Saskatchewan,
Trevor Good



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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:28:59 -0700
From: "Michael Rose" <maltandhops at msn.com>
Subject: Rob or Dr. Cone

Rob or Dr. Cone,
    Has Dr. Cone published any books?

Thanks 15x10*6 per answer  ;^)      
    mike rose     Crestline, CA   maltandhops at msn.com




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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:11:33 -0400
From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net>
Subject: sulfury lager

hello all

I have a lager that was really sulfury smelling.  As I've read, I'm letting it
lager to let the sulfur smell dissipate.  It's working slowly, and that leads
me to the questions.....would the sulfuryness be driven off more rapidly if
the beer wasn't in a keg? If I counter pressure bottle, will it dissipate
quicker in that smaller volume of beer? I may also dry hop to mask it a bit if
it won't leave soon! any help is, as always, much appreciated.

Thanks 
Aaron Perry


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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:25:40 -5
From: "Mike Kidulich" <mjkid at rochester.rr.com>
Subject: UNYHA 22nd Annual Competition and 11th Empire Open

            UPSTATE NEW YORK HOMEBREWERS ASSOCIATION 
        22nd ANNUAL COMPETITION & 11th EMPIRE STATE OPEN 
                                
                Best-of-Show judging and Award Ceremony held on 
                                
                        Saturday, May 20, 2000 
                                
                                
Entry deadline is May 10, 2000 for shipped entries. See 

http://www.ggw.org/unyha/comp2k.htm 

for rules and shipping addresses. There is also a downloadable 
entry form on this page.

All styles accepted for judging, including Cider and Mead. Mead 
and Cider are not eligible for Best of Show.

email: tweymann at  hselaw.com (T. Weymann) or 
hwjones at  courts.state.ny.us (Henry Jones)

Ship 'em if ya gottem!


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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:51:12 -0600
From: William Plotner <beerbill at juno.com>
Subject: Warsteiner clone

Hello fellow brewers.

Has anyone come up with a good, partial mash, clone of Warsteiner?

Also, does anyone know if The Gourmet Brewer is still in business?

Thanks

William Plotner
Colorado Springs
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.


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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:36:40 -0400
From: mike megown <magobrew at erols.com>
Subject: Big Brew 2K


  Can some please post or email me the speifics of Big Brew 2k.  I mean
what the  target OG, IBU, SRM, & FG should be.  I have the recipe but I
want the data so I can get a recipe designed for my system.

  Cheers!
      Mike


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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:35:53 -0400
From: "Hampo, Richard (R.)" <rhampo at ford.com>
Subject: Connections & corrosion

Hi all!

Big wires are something I deal with all day - I work with 50+ kW electric
drives for vehicles. The choice of connection method boils down to 2 general
rules.
1) For low current connections, use solder.
2) For high current connections, use mechanical means.

Pretty simple, eh?

The reasoning behind rule 1 is that oxidation can build up on the contacts
if the current is low. Soldering the connection ensures that there is no
place that the oxide can break the circuit. Gold plated terminals are
generally required for mechanical connections when they are not soldered
since gold does not readily form oxides.

The reasoning behind rule 2 is that high current will break through any
oxide buildup so solder is not necessary. Further, crimp or screw
connections allow mechanical movement to occur (due to thermal expansion or
movement of the wires) while if the connection was soldered, cracks would
form and eventually cause the joint to fail.


Best Regards,

Richard J. Hampo		Ecostar Electric Drive Systems
Technical Specialist		Rm. 1023, Ecostar Building
Tel: (313) 621-6337		15001 Commerce Drive North
Fax: (313) 594-0913		Dearborn,  MI 48120 USA
Email: rhampo at ford.com




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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:45:53 -0400
From: "Hampo, Richard (R.)" <rhampo at ford.com>
Subject: more on connections

Just one more point: On large, high current connections, crimping and then
soldering is generally not a good idea. If it is soldered then there tends
to be concentrations of stress where the solder ends. Mechanically this
defeats the strain relief aspects of a good crimp or screw type connection.
I can't say that this is never done in practice but I have seen large wires
break due to lack of strain relief caused by soldering a crimped connector.

Best Regards,

Richard J. Hampo		Ecostar Electric Drive Systems
Technical Specialist		Rm. 1023, Ecostar Building





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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:39:53 -0700
From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: NYC Trip

Don't miss the two best breweries in NYC:
Park Slope Brewing (Park Slope Brooklyn, 6th Avenue
The Tap Room (19th Street??? around the corner from Heartland Brewing,
which would be my third choice of brewpubs.)  The Tap Room has
outstanding food and great lagers, and is run by an Austrian brewing
equipmennt manufacturer.  Park Slope makes a variety of outstanding ales
and one of the finest brewpub pilsners that I've had and is worth the
subway trip to Brooklyn.  If you go to Brooklyn, the Waterfront Ale
House on Atlantic Street is definitely worth a visit and is an excellent
place to taste an assortment of local beers, especially those from the
Brooklyn Brewery.

Almost all the other breweries, including Typhoon, Westside,
Commonwealth, and Times Square, make beer that is comparable to decent
homebrew.  But they aren't worth a visit when there are tap bars with
multiple taps such as:

Chumley's, Jekyll & Hyde, Slaughter Lamb, Peculiar Pub (West Village)
Burp Castle & Brewski's (East 7th Street, 5 blocks around the corner
from DBA)
and of course DBA itself at First Avenue near 3rd Street.

Uptown, the Gingerman has an enormous array of taps.

On Lafeyette and 4th, a Belgian restaurant named "Belgo" opened in a
converted garage (not great atmosphere, but good mussels and great ales)
with a selection of Belgian ales rivaling Burp Castle.  Burp Castle has
waiters dressed as Trappist Monks, and Brother Patrick is a local
legend, especially after consuming a number of Anchor Foghorns, which he
clandestinely guzzles from the tap next door at Brewski's.

Even Staten Island does well on beer bars.  We have three places with
extensive selection of fine beers.

> "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> asks:
> 
> >My next trip is NYC this Saturday till Tuesday. My wife has a
> conference at the Downtown Manhattan Hilton (1335 Avenue of the 
> Americas).  So Where should I go? I have heard that Manhattan is
> not a brewpub mecca, but being the largest import/export city in the world,
> has to have some beer advantages somewhere. Quality Multi-taps???  
- -- 
Dr. Ted McIrvine     McIrvine at Ix.Netcom.Com
College of Staten Island/CUNY

"Music is the hidden arithmetical exercise of a mind unconscious that is
calculating."  
Gottfried Leibniz, quoted in Lorenz Mizler's Musikalische Bibliothek


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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:25:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: root <root at brew.oeonline.com>
Subject: Yes!!

Success! Now, let's play with the remaining functions, then test the lock
routine itself (on the moderation side, mind you - haven't written the
routines for the requestor or "eat" yet. Sendbrew needs no help.



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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:28:29 EDT
From: Crispy275 at aol.com
Subject: Big Brew 2000 - Recipe and notes

With Big Brew right around the corner and my recipe in print in Zymurgy, I 
thought I would share the recipe on the HDB format for those who might not 
get Zymurgy (although it is listed at beertown.org) and share a few thoughts 
about the recipe and my development of it.

In 1995, shortly after I joined a local homebrew club (Fermental Order of 
Renassance Draughtsmen, or F.O.R.D. for short), I realized that Sierra Nevada 
Pale Ale was one of my favorite brews. A quick search of Cats Meow recipe 
database gave me several varients of the recipe, but most were similar enough 
to give me a common starting ground. 

After 5-6 attempts, I realized I was pretty damn close. Then, I began 
changing one element of the recipe while leaving everything else constant. It 
was by doing this that I really began to appreciate the difference between 
1/2 a pound of Crystal 40oL vs. a whole pound; adding a pound of wheat or 
not; using carapils or not. I must admit (flameproof underwear on) I really 
can't tell the difference between using Briess or Marris Otter or any other 
quality base malt. But I can tell if it has gotten too old (a rare problem at 
the Barr House Brewery). One of my favorite varients was my Super Nirvana 
Pale Ale (SNPA Clone #9, or Super 9), where I used 150% of the normal grain 
bill and 150% of the normal hop amounts - 1.082, nearly Barley wine, but 
soooo good. I will bring the remaining few bottles to the National 
Convention. Anyway, on with the recipe...(as it appears in Zymurgy).

Big Brew 2000, Nearly Nirvana Pale Ale
All Grain Recipe for 5 gallons:
6.5 gallons water (2.5 mash, 4 sparge) 
1 T gypsum (unless using hard water) 
9lb. U.S. two row malt
1/2 lb U.S. crystal malt 60 L 
1/2 lb U.S. dextrin malt 
1 oz Perle hops (bittering or first wort hop) 
1/2 oz Cascade hops (flavor) 
1/2 t Irish moss
1/2 oz Cascade hops (aroma) 
1 oz Cascade hops (dry hop)
Wyeast 1056 liquid ale yeast 

All-grain instructions:
Mash grains in water at 152o F for 60 minutes. Raise temperature to 168o F by 
draining mash tun, heating liquid to 180o F. Recirculate. Sparge with 168o F 
water with gypsum. Bring to wort boil. Add bittering hops. Boil 80 minutes. 
Add Irish moss and flavor hops. Boil 9 minutes. Add aroma hops. One minute 
later, turn off kettle. Chill. Transfer to fermenter. Pitch yeast and aerate. 
Do a two-stage fermentation. Add dry hops to secondary fermenter before 
racking. Bottle with 3/4 cup corn sugar or keg and force-carbonate when 
complete. Share with friends when ready.

OK, pretty good. This will get you pretty darn close to Sierra Nevada Pale 
Ale. Now, some thoughts.  First, use however much water you need with your 
particular system to sparge off about 6 gallons. You will boil down to about 
5.

Second, I have not brewed this particular recipe in at least the last 5-6 
batchs of SNPA clone. Why? Because, as Tim Allen would say, MORE POWER! 
Actually, more hops and malt! Specifically, I like more hop flavor, so I 
recommend if you think Sierra Nevada is a really good brew, but could use a 
touch more of that delightful Cascade hop flavor, add a full ounce of 
Cascades at about 20 minutes to the end of the boil, another one with about 
10 minutes remaining and then follow the rest of the recipe. I also like to 
add a pound of wheat to 1) boost my gravity and 2) ensure good head. And 
isn't that what this hobby is all about? Uh, good head retention is what I 
was talking about.

Finally, I like to use HUGE yeast starters. I mean, forget stepping up a 
smack pack. I like to go to Motor City Brewing Company or Kings Brewery and 
hand them a one-gallon ziplock and fill it up. Did you know brand new 
ziplocks (never opened) are sanitary from the factory? I always keep a box in 
the car for those handy visits.

I will be having a Big Brew Party (Site 52) at the Barr House Brewery (me 
humble abode) with approximately 20 brewers on May 6th, followed by a pig 
roast and a band with significantly more friends and neighbors coming, so if 
you are anywhere near Ann Arbor, Mi.  and you would like to learn about, 
share information on or just enjoy a homebrew, call me at 734-944-6618 and I 
will give directions. - Crispy Fry


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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:32:07 -0500
From: Ron and Sharon <biohazrd at graceba.net>
Subject: Cardamom Tincture

Before I begin reporting on some net research, I'd like to thank Rob
Moline for providing the collective with Dr. Cone's honorable
expertise.  I'll be printing and binding his responses for future
reference and trying some of the things he has mentioned.

Now, on to my one man quest for unskunkable beer.  I really thought
there would be more responses to my first posting than there were, so I
have answered my own questions (from the public domain, marc) regarding
the Busch patent #4,389,421 regarding cardamom to prevent skunking in
beer.  I have obtained the cardamom and a little basic research on the
net has provided some very interesting information.  To refresh
everyone's memory, the Busch patent states that cardamom, in very
limited quantities, will provide the same protection from skunking as an
amber bottle.  I don't know about the rest of ya'll, but we throw spring
and fall parties with potato guns and beer and skunking is a serious
problem.  In the past we have brewed Belgian wit to prevent the skunking
problem (bittered with Curaco orange peel and very little hop) but I
wanted to go to a German Pills this fall.

The active ingredient in Cardamom that prevents the skunking effect is
stated to be 1,8-cineole.  This compound is assisted by 1,4-cineole
which has no effect by itself but has a synergistic action with the
1,8-cineole compound allowing lower amounts of 1,8-cineole to be added.
Why lower the 1,8-cineole, which is effective by itself? Maybe the
compound's lay name will help....eucalyptol.  No, I don't want
eucalyptus beer either.  1,8-cineole is available commercially for about
$20.00 per 100 grams (a lifetime supply)

The compound 1,4-cineole (no common name) also has a flavor and aroma
but its not as potent and is listed as "Cooling Pine Minty Camphor
Terpene Green".  This compound is also commercially available but costs
a whopping $152.00 per GRAM.  That's right, cocaine is cheaper on the
street corner. So making a mixture, as suggested in the patent with a
ratio of 3:5 1,8-cineole to 1,4-cineole, and using at a rate of 0.89 to
1.58 ppb would be expensive, unless several people shared the cost.

So, if making a solution of the purified compounds is out of the
question, for now, how about the suggestion of 60 ppb of cardamom?  I
have obtained a container of cardamom, from a local grocery store for 89
cents (Tones Bros, inc) which weighs 12 grams.  Can we simply throw in
the ground cardamom? If so, when?  The patent suggest the addition at
the end of the process prior to packaging to reduce the risk of loss in
the "processing stages".  I take that to mean boiling out or blowing out
with CO2 from fermentation. I think there is more to the process than
this, however.  Lets explore the chemical nature of the cineole
compounds in question.

Both 1,8-cineole and 1,4-cineole have very high boiling points, around
176 C or 348 F. So they will not boil out during the wort boil.  What
chemical reactions may occur, now thats a different story.  We don't
really know. In addition to a high boiling point the compounds are
INSOLUBLE in water.  The compounds are, however, soluble in 95% ethanol,
ether and DMSO.  Ether is too flammable and I don't want to drink DMSO,
so how about Ethanol?  ummm ethanol.  That'll work.  My original
suggestion of making a tincture out of the cardamom is very viable with
this new information.  This is probably why addition of cardamom at the
final stage of the beer making process is recommended, beer is a dilute
alcohol solution and will probably hold more cineole in solution than
the earlier stages prior to alcohol formation.  But, beer probably
contains inadequate amounts of alcohol to take the compounds into
solution directly from the ground cardamom.  if, however, the cineoles
were first dissolved into alcohol then added to the finished beer, they
will probably stay in solution, at least in quantities needed for skunk
prevention.

As to freshness of the cardamom, I'm not going to worry.  These are not
volatile oils we're talking about but epoxies.  A compound with a
boiling point of 348 F is not likely to vaporize and disappear from the
table top much less from a sealed container.  I don't know what effects
oxygen will have on them but I think they may be stable in that regard
at room temps.

Now armed with this information, lets do the math to make a usable
tincture that we can add to our secondary a day or so prior to
botteling/kegging.  I would like to make a convenient supply of the
tincture that I'll use for 6 month's or so, a reasonable expiration
dating.  The patent suggests 60 ppb of cardamom so, what's that in an
amount that you can measure and put in 5 gallons?

Lets use the whole 12 grams of cardamom I purchased pre measured in a
nice little container.....

Cardamom 12 grams
95% Ethanol 100 milliliters

Mix some of the ethanol and the 12 gms of cardamom (full container, no
weighing) in a mortar and pestle and grind into a paste.  Add a little
ethanol at a time and keep grinding until all of the ethanol is
incorporated.  Place the mixture into a small glass bottle with a metal
lid and let sit a day or so.  You can then strain off the alcohol
tincture from the sediment of crude cardamom.  You now have the active
ingredients from 12 grams of cardamom in the alcohol with an extraction
rate of at least 80%. Eighty percent of 12 grams makes the essence of
9.6 grams of cardamom in 100ml (not counting the loss of alcohol in the
leftover paste and filter paper).  How much do we add to our 5 gallons
of beer?

Parts Per Billion (ppb) is the same as micrograms per liter so with a
desired level of cardamom at 60 ppb we also have 60 micrograms per
liter.  A 5 gallon batch of beer is about 21 liters so we need 1,260
micrograms for 5 gallons of beer.

Our tincture contains the essence about 9,600,000 micrograms of cardamom
(remember the estimated 20% loss during the extraction) in 100ml or
96,000 micrograms per milliliter.  That's a whopping 0.013ml.  We need
to make an aliquot from the tincture.  Here's how.

Take 0.25ml of tincture (measured with a U-100 insulin syringe, they're
available without prescription.  See if you can buy just a few) and
dilute to a total volume of 10ml with ethanol   We now have a solution
that we can measure with our insulin syring, 0.52ml (or 52 units on the
syringe). This will provide the necessary 1,260 micrograms of cardamom
essence.

I've tried to keep this a simple as possible and avoid the need for any
kind of specialized equipment beyond a mortar and pestle and an insulin
syringe.  If you have an accurate scale you can make a much more dilute
solution and avoid the need to do the final aliquot.    I also plan to
use grain ethanol at 76% or so for the solvent.  I think this should
work as well but the total extraction will be somewhat lower than it
would be with 95% technical grade ethanol.

I'll be making this tincture and testing it on a batch of very hoppy
pale ale that I'm drinking this week if the sun ever shines.  When the
tests are complete I'll submit a short response on the effects.  I'd
like to hear any comments or questions from the collective.  And for
Marc, I won't be selling any doctored beer, I don't sell beer.  Many
thanks to S.R. Palamand, the inventor of the patent.


Ron Montefusco
biohazrd at graceba.net
www.graceba.net/~biohazrd




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