---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: serious considerations (Steve Lacey)
  Fruit Lambic Question ("Hominid")
  Congrats, Corn and Clarity ("Kevin Imel")
  re Outback Steakhouse (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  Beer in Greece (John Roe)
  Aussie Imports ("Dave Edwards")
  re: Florida Brewpubs ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Re: NHC CAP Handout  Part 1 (Jeff Renner)
  N.Lansing:Growth v. ferment (William Solomon)
  Beer in Alaska (K.M.)" <kmuell18 at visteon.com>
  re:Bud's roots ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  MIY2K Report ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Church Keys and London (Dan Listermann)
  Re: Pressure expectations... ("Martin Brungard")
  Oz (William Frazier)
  more MIY2K thoughts ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Re: Pressure expectations... (Jeff Renner)
  Re: pony kegs (Jeff Renner)
  Church Key origins: ("Maynard, Sandra")
  BOTTLES (Evan Kraus)
  Church keys and reflecting on younger days (rob.green1)
  new wyeast packs ("St. Patrick's")
  Al K.'s Alt; hops disease ("G. M. Remake")
  MIY2K Thanks and NHC Results ("Paul Gatza")
  14th Annual Great Taste of the Midwest (Mark Garthwaite)
  Excessive DMS in Kolsch (Dave Humes)
  Yeast (Aaron Perry)
  NHC Results on Web ("Gary Glass")
  Munchen and Prahe (Jerry Berry)
  Re: Just A Bit Disappointing ("Richard Pass")
  Phil's Disappointment (RBoland)


* 2000 AHA NHC pics and stories at http://hbd.org/miy2k
* JULY IS AMERICAN BEER MONTH! Take the American Beer
* Pledge of Allegiance! Support your local brewery...

* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:55:57 +1000
From: Steve Lacey <stevel at sf.nsw.gov.au>
Subject: Re: serious considerations

Dear Serious Considerations...
If you want to know what Australian Customs attitude is to importing malt,
hops, yeast etc then my advice, FWIW, would be to ask Customs (AQIS,
actually). You can also find info (searchable database) and telephone
numbers on their web site http://www.aqis.gov.au  Personally I would prefer
to leave the importing to the professionals and buy from them - unless I
desperately want something that they don't carry (e.g. koji-kin!)
Steve Lacey




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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:56:28 -0700
From: "Hominid" <Joel at Donelson.com>
Subject: Fruit Lambic Question

Greetings all...

Thanks once again for all the knowledge given here, directly and indirectly.
It make a new(ish) homebrewer's life much easier. :)

I have a friend who has requested a raspberry lambic, like Frambaise (sp).

I believe it is a normal lambic, but for bottling instead of dry malt or
corn sugar or wort, raspberries are used. The question is twofold:

1. Is my theorem correct?
2. If so, how much raspberry concentrate for a 5gal batch?

Thanks!
 -Joel




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Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:30:35 -0700
From: "Kevin Imel" <kimel at moscow.com>
Subject: Congrats, Corn and Clarity

Greetings!

First of all...CONGRATS Pat and Karl!  What a well deserved 
honor!  And my deepest thanks for doing all that you do to keep 
the HBD going!  I have been reading the HBD faithfully since early 
1993 and was among those holding our breath as it looked like our 
beloved digest was going to die a few years ago.  Thanks for saving 
it!!!

Now to the heart of the matter:

With all this talk of corn in the digest of late; I figured I would post a 
question that has been wandering around in my brain for a couple 
years.  I have a pair of "Summer" beers (a pale and a "red") that I 
brew which run about 1.045 OG and have 15% of the grain bill 
being composed of Flaked Corn.  The balance of the bill is 2-Row 
(Gambrinus) with some crystal and some light munich.  I do use 
Irish Moss in all my brews (2 tsp in with the bittering hops).

What I have noticed is that after a week in the beer fridge (where 
they are slowly carbonating at serving pressure) the brews with 
corn in them are crystal clear whereas my other beers that run 
about the same gravity and use the same yeast generally take 3 - 
4 weeks to clear.  I don't use polyclar, issinglass, gelatin, silica 
gel, eye of newt, bat wings or anything else to clarify post-
fermentation.

I don't do anything different because there is corn in the grist.  I use 
what has become my standard 3-step infusion mash (122F for 20 
minutes, 152F for 30 minutes, & 158F until conversion is complete 
per the iodine test) for virtually all my brews.  Skim the hot break 
before adding hops and chill with immersion chiller and always 
have a nice cold break.  Yeast for the beers in question is Wyeast 
1056 stepped twice and pitched a high krausen (although I see 
similar things with other yeasts).

Sooo...oh learned ones: why do the beers with corn in them clear 
faster than virtually the same beers without corn in them?

Cheers!

Kevin
___________________________________
Kevin Imel 
KF7CN - DN16lv
Palouse Washington USA

"The Only Way To Truely Fail Is To Fail To Try!"

I-D-A-H-O, Idaho Idaho Go Go Go!!!!! GO VANDALS!!!!!


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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:39:41 +1000 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at Aus.Sun.COM>
Subject: re Outback Steakhouse

sempai saunders

Outback Steakhouse are a chain of Australiana restaurants around the US. 
Similar to the couple of US themed retaurants in Oz.

In an my usual blurry state whilst living in the the US, i once ventured
into one in Indiapolis. The guys I was with thought that I might like to go.
Unfortunately I could not find on the menu any "blackened snags cooked whilst 
pissed and no torch" or "well done + 20 minutes extra on the barbie steak". I 
had to do with my own reserves of "drunk and obnoxious Aussie asking to see 
the waitress's Map of Tassie" to get me thru the meal.


I also gave a display on the Australian tipping methodology, all that was 
left was dimes and nickels, and then we ran....

Hopper



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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 04:18:01 -0400
From: John Roe <Sensei_John_Roe at compuserve.com>
Subject: Beer in Greece

I'm going to be in Greece, specifically on the Island of
Corfu for a couple weeks.  Any beer there worth looking for?
Do they even make beer in Greece?

Thanks!



Professor John Roe
Laguna Hills, Ca
www.martialartsacademy.org

"Empty barrels make the most noise"






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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:23:01 +0930
From: "Dave Edwards" <eddiedb at senet.com.au>
Subject: Aussie Imports

| | buying some ingredients from the USA over the net. My question is what
is
| | the opinion of the Australian customs about people ordering bags of malt
| or
| | hops or yeast for example and having it sent into Australia.
| |
| | Edward
|
|
| Eddie,
| You'll get no problems with yeast and malt, I've done it before with no
| hassles. Where you might hit a snag is hops. You are not allowed to import
| whole leaf hops into the country, but hop plugs and pellets are okay as
long
| as they are sealed properly.
|
| Also be careful with yeast. If you order a vial (Whitelabs for example),
| they often have the tendancy to get excited whilst travelling and bust
open.
| You can usually save the yeast, but it is never the preffered method of
| recieving yeast.
|
| Oh by the way, where in this great brown land are you from?
|
| Cheers,
| Dave.




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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:18:30 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Florida Brewpubs

Pat Mahoney asks about brewpubs in Daytona, St. Augustine, Flagler Beach areas
for an upcoming visit.

In St Augustine, check out the A1A Taproom & Grille at 1 King Street,
813-786-2966. I don't believe there are any brewpubs/micros in Flagler Beach
or Daytona Beach. In Jacksonville, just north of St Augustine, you might visit
either Ragtime or Seven Bridges. All three of these brewpubs have pretty
decent offerings - both beer and food. The menus and atmosphere is very
different in each but the beers are similar (though not the same) as all three
are now owned by the same company (I think the parent co is Big River Brewing
out of Tenn.). They usually have some cask conditioned offerings at the two in
Jax.

If you end up going anywhere else in Fl, let me know and I'll send you
suggestions other suggestions.

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL



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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:25:46 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: NHC CAP Handout  Part 1

Brewers

A minor correction.  I wrote:

>First Wort Hops: 3 HBU Saaz or other noble hops (3.2 HBU for pellets)

Should be 2.7 HBU for pellets.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:33:48 -0400
From: William Solomon <solomw at rpi.edu>
Subject: N.Lansing:Growth v. ferment

I think the answer to your question about how the pressure will get so
high (in the bottle) if the yeast growth is inhibited is simple:
fermentation.  The yeast does not need to grow to ferment.  It needs to
grow in order to produce sufficient yeast to ferment the wort in a
reasonable time.  There is normally more than enough yeast (pitched or
wild) in a bottle conditioned beer to ferment the priming sugar (and any
residual sugars).

Bill Solomon
Albany, NY


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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:49:26 -0400
From: "Mueller, Kevin (K.M.)" <kmuell18 at visteon.com>
Subject: Beer in Alaska

As a Naval Reservist I'll be travelling to Ketchikan, Alaska from July 9 to
July 21.  While there I'm sure I'll be EXTREMELY busy, but hope to break
away to taste some of the local beers.  Any suggestions?  Bars/pubs I just
NEED to go to?  

I am actually going to be on Annette Island, and the only transportation
I'll have is a ferry from the islant to Ketchikan, so its got to be within
walking distance.

Non-beer relate... Can anyone recommend an outdoor outfitter in that area
who may be able to take me on an overnight hike/tour of the area?

Thanks in advance,
Kevin
Redford, Michigan

Kevin Mueller
kmuell18 at visteon.com
734-451-9323
text page: 313-609-1332 or http://paging.acswireless.com





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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:59:53 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re:Bud's roots

Jeff mentions,
      >> Where's the malt that a Helles has?  If
they're dumbed down anything, it's pilsner.<<
   Well, I could come back with where's the hops of a pils?
Really they are what they are, {American Premium lager}
and rightfully so, no malt, no hops, just *some kind of lager.
It just bothers me that in some minds they are thought of as
a pils :-(
>>That's why we have to brew CAPs today!<<
  Amen to that!
I don't know if you get the "Great Lakes Brewing News".
But in the latest issue some 'beer writer' mentions,
"so-called pre-Prohibition pilsners". Grrrr
Then in the same piece mentions Alpha-King (I think it was) as being
"well balanced, but with hop taste and aroma that
could knock over an elephant."????  that makes it well
balanced?? Argh!

 N.P. (Del) Lansing
 


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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:18:28 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: MIY2K Report

To quote Pat Babcock,  "Wow! What a great time the National Homebrewers
Conference was!"

Pat was definitely surprised by the Recognition Award. I had been clued in
ahead of time by Jethro Gump (along with a warning that if I let the cat out
of the bag he'd hunt me down and rip off my legs, or something to that
effect). So anyway, I was watching Pat when the announcement started. You've
heard the phrase 'his jaw dropped', well Pat's jaw almost hit the table -
literally. This was well deserved recognition for the efforts Karl and Pat put
in continuously.

On a related note, it's also recognition of the importance of the HBD to the
homebrewing community. I know it's important to me - even with all the beer
and homebrew quality time at the conference, I still missed my morning dose of
the HBD. Pat was a continuous presence at the conf. There he was at almost
every event and presentation, with the web cam set up, tapping at the keyboard
of his laptop. Hope those of you that couldn't make it saw at least some of
the images he was sending out.

The Michigan clubs put on a tremendous conference - great people, great party,
great beer, great food, great presentations. I thoroughly enjoyed the whole
thing, and I heard many comments that this was the best conference ever. I
know that was your goal, and you truly succeeded. Great job, thanks to you
all. The most enjoyable part for me was the club night, Beer Without Borders.
What an assembly of fantastic homebrew and great food! And what a great crowd
of people to enjoy it with. The thing that struck me most about the conference
was the incredible sense of community - both homebrewers in general, and also
among the HBD folk. It was truly wonderful to get to meet a lot of new folk,
and to catch up with old friends. I was able to put faces with a lot of names
I'm familiar with through this digest. Though, somehow I missed meeting Eric
Fouch, so I can't comment on whether he actually looks like a triangular
gorilla or not.

And there were so many other great moments and events, the pig roast, judging
at the Natl Homebrew Competition, some really interesting talks, many of them
by HBD'rs - Jeff Renner's CAP presentation was great, as was Ken & Dan's mead
talk, as was Ray Daniels talk on IPA. These were my favorites but all the
others were great too, don't want to slight anyone. But clearly the highlight
of the whole thing was getting to share so many great homebrews with all the
great homebrewer folk.

If you weren't able to make it this year, you should put it on your calendar
for next year. Hope to see you there!

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, Fl






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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:50:45 -0400
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Church Keys and London

Bruce Carpenter ( bcarpenter at appleonline.com) asks about church keys.  My
favorite is one that I bought at London's St. Paul's Cathedral back in '94.
 It is brass in that shape of.... St. Paul's.  Our daughter was in London
last week and looked for another when she went there, but said that she
could not see any at that time.

As for London Brew pubs, check out the Orange Brewery at St. Barnibus and
Pimlico.  Have one for me.  My spousal unit only let me have one there
because she had to see Kennsington Palace before dark.  :(

Dan


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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:06:09 EDT
From: "Martin Brungard" <mabrungard at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pressure expectations...

I am curious about the pressure corresponding to a given volume of CO2 in 
solution. I currently bottle condition and was wondering what the pressure 
in the bottle was, based on my desired CO2 volume.

I assume that the pressure can be read directly from a force carbonation 
chart relating pressure, temp, and CO2 volumes. Assuming that the chart 
assumes the steady state condition, is it correct to assume that the 
pressure in the bottle corresponds to the current bottle temp and the design 
CO2 volume on the chart?


Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL

"Meandering to a different drummer"


________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:15:15 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Oz

Phil writes about his poor attempt to make a kit beer "Cheers - Phil Baron
Of No More Kit Beers".  The latest National Geographic has a great, detailed
map of Australia.  If you Oz types would tell us where you live we could
find you on the map.

        Bill Frazier
        Olathe, Kansas

BTW, Olathe (pronounced Oh-lay-tha) is near Kansas City, Missouri (central
USA) but just next to the state of Kansas, which is famous for another tale
of Oz.



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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:14:50 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: more MIY2K thoughts

A few more thoughts on MIY2K. Since this was the AHA Conference, I'd like to
comment on the AHA itself a bit. I know there has been a lot of crap flung at
the AHA in these pages from time to time. I've only been brewing for about
five years, so I don't have the personal knowledge of this past history that
some of you may have. I'm sure many of those complaints were valid. But I do
want to say this; it's time to move on. That was then, this is now. And the
AHA today is increasingly what we make it and want it to be.

Last year's conference was a grass roots effort, led by a group of Kansas City
area clubs. They did a great job. This year's effort by the Michigan clubs was
even better. I heard multiple comments that this was the best conference ever.
And I'm sure that next year the host clubs will try to top that. That's the
spirit that I see starting to prevail in other areas of the AHA as well.
Whatever it's faults, it's the only game in town. We need a national
organization to provide a focus for this hobby and this is the one we've got.
There was talk a while back in this forum about forming a new organization -
thankfully that seems to have faded away.  I think it would have been a big
mistake.

It's up to all of us to fix the problems and move the organization in the
directions we want. That is happening. There seemed to be a new, more positive
attitude happening. Both in the AHA itself, and in the homebrewing member
community. The AHA Board of Advisors is becoming more democratized. This
started last year with the new election process that brought Jethro to the
board, and continued this year with the election of a bunch of excellent HBD
members to the board. And a lot of the old board members are homebrewers of
the same caliber. The board in the past may have been ignored by the AOB
management, but there's change in the wind. Most of the current board members
are just homebrewers like the rest of us, they want to see the same
improvements that you do. And they are approachable. You can talk to them and
let them know what you'd like to see happen, what you need or want.

The AHA, and homebrewing in general, is in a time of change. To quote Bill
Pfieffer, "Man, I LOVE this hobby!", and the hobby needs all our involvement
to continue to improve. I'm sure you've all heard comments saying what do I
get out of an AHA membership beyond the subscription to Zymurgy. And many
people considered it to be a second rate magazine. Well, BT is gone, and Ray
is on board with AHA and Zymurgy with the intention of making it a truly great
magazine. I think we're beginning to see many more benefits of AHA membership,
and more AHA activities that will benefit AHA members more directly. One
benefit is the AHA Natl Conference, take advantage and attend next year if you
possibly can - it was incredible. There is also a project afoot to make
insurance available to cover clubs and club officers on an affordable basis by
extending the umbrella of the AHA to associated clubs and allowing more cost
effective group coverage.

A tangible thing that happened recently that very directly benefited and
touched the lives of some specific homebrewers. Three homebrewers in the Los
Alamos area were burned out of house, home, and brewing equipment. Mike Hall
and Jethro Gump led an effort to solicit brewing equipment and supplies from a
number of manufacturers and suppliers. This was very successful and some
terrific homebrewing care packages reached these brewers. They may be getting
insurance money or help from the govt (they started the fire, after all) but
that takes time. This was fast and immediate, giving these guys a chance to
get back to brewing quickly. Having survived Hurricane Andrew,I can relate to
how much they'll need a homebrew. This was a great example of Brewers helping
Brewers (to quote Rob, who doesn't want the credit for this effort - yeah,
right Gump).

My point is that this is the new face of the AHA. Along with the great new
board members, the AHA staff is working to improve things. Paul Gatza has been
doing a great job, seconded by Joanne and Gary. The changing Board of Advisors
is becoming more of a working board, extending the reach and effectiveness of
the limited AHA staff. They are all working together and want to work with
you. They are more than willing to listen to you about what you want and need.
Work with them (it'll take all our involvement) and we can continue to make
the AHA more truly a homebrewer's association.

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, Fl






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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:59:01 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Pressure expectations...

William Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com> writes:

>I am trying a cask conditioned pale ale and am curious as to what the CO2
>pressure will [should, might...] reach in the keg by the time it is ready.
>
>I primed the keg with 3/4 cup corn sugar, purged the air and put a few
>pounds of CO2 on it to seal the lid. About 12 hours later I put a pressure
>gage on it and the pressure read 4.5 psi. Yesterday it read 5.4 psi. Did
>not see it yet today...

I'm no cellarman by a long shot, but I think you'll want to keep venting
the pressure to something like 1/2 psi or you will have way overcarbonated
beer for a real ale.  (BTW, I picked up The CAMRA Guide to Cellarmanship
from Brewin' Beagle at NHC and this is a fascinating read for any real ale
fan - I've just skimmed it so far).  At this low pressure, the lid may not
stay sealed, but mine have.  I have luck racking my nearly finished beer
into the Corny and sealing it.  After a week or so it's usually just about
right, but sometimes I have to either vent or apply a little CO2 to adjust.
Not up to CAMRA standards, but it works.

When I'm not going to the trouble of using my beer engine, I serve real
ales by keeping enough pressure on it to dispense (~3 psi) and then use a
pocket beer engine (or pocket sparkler, as someone re-christened it) to
knock out the excess carbonation and raise a head.  This is a 5-10 cc
syringe without the needle.  You suck up a bit of beer from the glass (be
sure to leave enough freeboard if it's very carbonated), then squirt it
back forcefulling into the glass.  The tinier the oriface of the syringe,
the more shear you'll have on the beer, and the more effective it is.  My
current one is an oral irrigator from a dentist, which has a fine tipped
curved plastic spout.

>By the way, this beer will be served at cellar temps, by gravity, but using
>a second corny keg with about a half lb. of pressure in it to feed the beer
>keg to make gravity dispensing possible without the introduction of air.
>Something that was discussed in the HBD a while back.

Are you going to keep gas on the second Corny?  How are you positioning the
keg?  Upside down with the fittings reversed?

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:19:43 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: pony kegs

"Dan Senne" <dsenne at intertek.net> of Collinsville, IL writes in response to
my referring to 1/8 bbl pony kegs:

>In St. Louis during the 70's we referred to 1/4 barrel kegs as "pony kegs"
>I don't remember ever seeing a 1/8 barrel keg.

With the virtual disappearance of 1/8 barrels ponies, that has become
common.  I last saw an old 1/8 one in central Wisconsin about 15 years ago.
We were visiting my sister and her family and we were going to have a big
party, so we ordered a pony from Point Brewery in Stevens Point.  We had to
order it ahead because they ordinarily only filled them during harvest
because farmers liked to keep them in the field for the harvester hands.
Or, actually, I'll bet the hands liked to have the farmer have them.  I'll
bet OSHA has put a stop to that now.

The only place I've seen full barrels (31 gallons (117 liters), about 300
lbs full, I'd guess) recently was behind the beer stands at Wrigley Field
about ten years ago.  Those are really big boys!  About waist high.  Cubs
fans drink a  lot of beer.  They have a lot to forget.

In Cincinnati in 1993 I picked up a 1/6 bbl Sankey of Hudepohl's Christian
Morlein, a very nice all malt beer, now discontinued, I think.  These kegs
were sold in supermarket beer coolers, but I didn't see them there last
time I went.  Maybe another change when Sam Adams bought Hudephol.  I sorta
forgot to return it for the deposit, and it was this keg that I filled with
CAP and took to MCAB in St. Louis (see Spencer's story in the new Zymurgy).
A Corny wouldn't have survived the baggage handlers.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:28:14 -0500
From: "Maynard, Sandra" <smaynard at ingr.com>
Subject: Church Key origins:


Bruce asked:

>>While the subject is up, thought I would ask the question. Why is it
called
a church key? The shape of the hole it makes resembles a steeple, I
suppose.<<

Someone told me it was a joke, because churches didn't need keys. Well that
doesn't sound right, so I went to an etymology site:

http://www.takeourword.com/Issue029.html

"It would seem that the word has been inherited from an older device. The
earlier church-key was a kind of bottle-opener which levered metal caps off
(typically) beer bottles and was so-called because of its similarity to
old-fashioned iron keys such as were used for church doors."


 -Sandy


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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:45:24 -0400
From: Evan Kraus <ekraus at mindspring.com>
Subject: BOTTLES

OBENDORFER WEISS Flip top Bottles Brown
110 Bottles $25
FOB. Atlanta-Midtown
If their not gone by July 9 then their goin to the recycler.



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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:52:45 -0400
From: rob.green1 at firstunion.com
Subject: Church keys and reflecting on younger days

I don't exactly know how the church key received it's name, but my earliest
recollections of fishing trips with my dad always included beer in cans
that required the use of the key, ( i.e. pre-pull tab days, boy if that
doesn't date me).  I remember one of the jewels passed down from father to
son when he said 'Every tackle box is not complete without a church key'.
This was one of the basic 'rules' that I follow to this day. Sure it's
silly, but I still have a church key in every tackle box and glove
compartment of our cars.

I just returned from a camping trip with my sons and while rooting through
my dad's tackle box, which I had inherited many years ago, they pulled out
the ever present church key and asked me why it was in there.  I thought
about telling them of days when cans didn't have pop tops and pull tabs, of
days when drinking a beer in public was not frowned upon, when fishermen
fished out of fishing boats powered by 12 hp motors, and of simpler times,
but I instead told them a 'jewel' that I hope they will in turn pass on to
their sons, ' Every tackle box is not complete without one'.

Live to brew...brew to live  d:o)

Rob



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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:34:50 -0500
From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at bga.com>
Subject: new wyeast packs

I have a couple data points for the new Wyeast without the starter (in a
shampoo type bottle).  Furthermore, I used XL packs at the same time to
compare.

The shampoo pack 1056 (3 days old) was pitched (an american pale ale) at 4:30
pm.  I returned at 11:30 pm (this was in my shop--temp about 70F) to find
active fermentation;  1" rocky head and bubbles about every 3 seconds.
That is less than 7 hours start time.

The next day I made a stout with a 1056 XL pack, 4 days old.  Pitched at
noon and
returned at 10 pm to find active fermentation.  Less than 10 hours to
fermentation.  I broke the XL pack when I started brewing--so it had about
2 hours before it was pitched.

Both batches were aerated well---10 minutes with aquarium pump/diffuser at
time of pitching.

The wort temp at time of pitching was 78F (that's the best you can do with
Austin water in June.) Although again the room temp is 70F.

The amount of yeast in the new package is the same as in the XL.  The
quality of the new package--shampoo type container--is excellent.  Durable,
no leaks, septic seal, easy to dispense.

My homebrew class made 3 beers the following weekened, one with the new
shampoo pack and 2 with XL yeasts.  All three yeasts were 3 days old.  In
this case the XLs were risen (popped about 6 hours before pitching).
Pitched at 7 pm.  I returned next morning at 9 and found very active
fermentation in all three.  Less than 14 hours to fermentation for each.

Lynne O'Connor
St. Patrick's of Texas
Brewers Supply
1828 Fleischer Dr
Austin, Texas 78728 USA
512-989-9727
www.stpats.com







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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:47:55 -0600
From: "G. M. Remake" <gremake at gsbpop.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Al K.'s Alt; hops disease

Hello all,

Mark Snyder asks for a link to Al K.'s altbier recipe.  I had posted some
questions about the same recipe, and thanks for all the helpful and
enthusiastic replies.  Pete Gottfried passed along this reference:

>Posting 10: Extracted from file:  2827
>Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:05:31 -0500 (CDT)
>From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
>Subject: Altbier recipe

>George writes:
>>For those of us who have not been to Duesseldorf and brew to the AHA
>>guideline, could someone post their method and ingredients for brewing a
>>true Duesseldorf Altbier?
>
>Actually, I've posted bits and pieces of my recipe over the years although
>I don't know if I've ever posted it full...
>
>Al's Altbier (it's had many names, always with the initials ZU ;^)
>
>8# Weyermann Dark Munich or DeWolf-Cosyns Munich
>1# Weyermann Melanoidin malt or DeWolf-Cosyns Aromatic
>3 oz. Spalt pellet hops (~4.7% AA) boiled 90 minutes
>Wyeast #1338 European Ale yeast
>
>Mash for 1 hour at 156F.
>Boil for 90 minutes.
>Cool, oxygenate, pitch a 2L starter.
>Ferment at 63F until done.
>
>I've found that there is little difference from lagering this beer.
>
>OG: 1.050-1.053
>FG: 1.011-1.012
>
>You will have a little hop flavour and a touch of hop aroma despite
>the fact that all the hops are added at T-90 minutes.  With that many
>hops, you simply have spillover of aroma and flavour.  Note this recipe
>presumes that you don't have any blowoff.  If you anticipate blowoff,
>use 3.5 ounces of Spalt.  I used the Aromatic or Melanoidin malt because
>I'm doing a single-temp infusion mash and not a decoction mash.  I
>believe these malts add some of the melanoidins that you would get
>if you did a decoction.
>
>
>Al.
>
>Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
>korz at xnet.com
>http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/

As Pete pointed out, the recipe calls for either Melanoidin or Aromatic
malt, and both work well, according to those who have tried them.  Al said
he used these malts in an infusion mash for added melanoidins.  Dean Fikar
liked his results when he used a half-pound of Aromatic and a single
decoction with rests at 132F and 148F.  If I'm not in a hurry, I think I'll
follow Dean's lead, scale back the Aromatic, and use a single decoction
mash.  From what I've read, altbier should be well-attenuated, so I was
surprised to see Al's relatively high rest at 156F.  Maybe holding it for
90 minutes improves attenuation.  In any case, if I decide to use a
single-temp infusion mash, I'll stick with Al's guidelines since others
like the results.

On another note, Tom Meier reports that his first year Centennial bines are
showing some of the same brown splotches I was finding on my hops.  Tom's
solution has been to pinch off the mottled leaves, which I am also doing.
I still don't know what causes the condition, but my bines seem to have
gotten over it and are already loaded with lots of big cones.
Unfortunately, I doubt I'll get around to harvesting the early crop so it
will probably wither on the bines, but this fall's crop should be huge.

Cheers!

Greg



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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:41:59 -0600
From: "Paul Gatza" <paulg at aob.org>
Subject: MIY2K Thanks and NHC Results

I would like to give a huge thanks to all volunteers, attendees, speakers
and guests at MIY2K--the AHA National Homebrewers Conference and the second
round of the National Homebrewers Competition. I wish to make extra mention
of the huge commitment of the Purple Gang of Ken, Rex, Mike, Colleen,
Spencer, Gabi, Phil and Rick. The highlights for me were the opportunities
to talk about the hobby with so many individual brewers and watching the
clubs come together with such outstanding hospitality.

I consider the conference a huge success at our effort to continue building
homebrewing communities on local, regional and national levels. I encourage
everyone to take a leadership role in your communities to promote
homebrewing.

If any attendees have any thoughts on ways to improve the conference, so
that we can have an even better time next year, please send them to
mailto:/paulg at aob.org. Thanks. I believe the model we have is sound, and
will continue into the future, so if any coalitions of clubs wish to put a
hat in the ring for next year, please let me know as soon as you can round
up the local support.

Congratulations to the winners in the AHA National Homebrew Competition.
Here is a link to the results:  http://beertown.org/AHA/NHC/winners.htm.

Paul Gatza (mailto:/paulg at aob.org)
Director, American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl St., Boulder, CO 80302        voice(303)447-0816 x 122
fax (303) 447-2825
Join the AHA at http://www.beertown.org





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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:49:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mark Garthwaite <mgarth at primate.wisc.edu>
Subject: 14th Annual Great Taste of the Midwest


	Tickets are available for the 14th Annual Great Taste of the
Midwest on Saturday August 12th, 2000 from 1-6 p.m.  at Olin-Turville Park
in Madison, WI.  Tickets are $20 each and will get you unlimited samples
of up to 400 different beers from 100 of the Midwest's finest breweries.
You'll also receive a tasting glass and directory to help you seek out
your favorite beers.  Sponsored by the Madison Homebrewers and Tasters
Guild, the Great Taste is the second longest running craft brewers
festival in North America.  Plenty of live music and general merriment is
assured!

	Tickets ($20 each) are available by sending a self-addressed
stamped envelope along with checks payable to Madison Homebrewers and
Tasters Guild to:

Great Taste of the Midwest
Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild (MHTG)
P.O. Box 1365
Madison, WI 53701-1365

	No phone or credit card orders are accepted.  Tickets are NOT sold
at the gate.

	More information can be found at the MHTG website at:

		www.hbd.org/mhtg

Click on the link for Great Taste of the Midwest 2000.

Hope to see you there!

 -Mark Garthwaite
 Madison, WI




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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:32:22 -0400
From: Dave Humes <humesdg1 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Excessive DMS in Kolsch

Greetings,

I brewed a Kolsch about 6 weeks ago that is conditioning now that appears to
suffer from excessive DMS.  I've brewed the style twice before and have
never had this problem.  I am aware of the usual suggestions to reduce DMS
that include a long boil and rapidly cooling the boiled wort.  I boil for 90
minutes and use a couterflow chiller that reduces the wort temperature from
200+ to around 70F in a matter of minutes while draining the kettle.  There
were two changes to the recipe since successfully brewing it before.  The
first is that I substituted DWC Pils malt for Weissheimer Pils malt.  This
was not done because of any problem with Weissheimer, my supplier just
didn't have it when I needed it.  The other change was that I decided to
worry about the pH of the mash that consisted entirely of very pale malts,
90% Pils, and 10% wheat.  10 minutes after mashing in the pH was about 5.6.
So, I added very small amounts of 80% lactic acid using a syringe until I
got it down to about 5.4.  I stirred thoroughly after each addition and let
it settle for a few minutes before taking a new measurement.  I know 5.2-5.3
is more optimal, but I was  concerned about adding too much acid.  I don't
have my logs with me now, but I think I added somewhere between 2 and 3 ml
and this is for a 10 gallon batch.  No lactic acid additions were made to
the sparge water.  Does anyone have any data on DMS percursor for the two
malts?  Could the acid be a factor?  If it is the malt, are there any
suggestions on how to further reduce the DMS?  I've got another 35 pounds of
this stuff and would rather not feed it to the birds.

Thanks.

- --Dave



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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:59:10 -0400
From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net>
Subject: Yeast

I recently brewed up a batch of APA. I split the 11 gal. - 5.5 in 2 6 gal
fermentors.  I pitched 1 qt starters of 1056 into each carboy.  One 1056 was
from a wyeast smack pack, while the other was borrowed from the sediment of
SNPA. the "direct from wyeast"
fementor is a normal looking 1056 ferment.  The SNPA sediment fermentor is
very powdery and is clinging to the sides of the carboy (for some reason  I
still use carboys, even after a smash up earlier this year) The Starters were
aerated the same amount, same wort. 

Did the SNPA  sediment mutate?  I was exited  when I tasted both starters, as
they seemed Identical... We'll see if they turn out the same now.... any
insight on the powderyness is appreciated. 
TIA

"Trying to understand more about beer!"
AP


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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:38:31 -0600
From: "Gary Glass" <gary at aob.org>
Subject: NHC Results on Web

Hello All,

The final results of the AHA National Homebrew Competition were posted on
beertown Saturday night during the Awards Ceremony, you can  view them at:
http://www.beertown.org/AHA/NHC/winners.htm.  CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL OF THE
WINNERS!  The Homebrewers Conference was a phenomenal success, What a great
party!  If you missed it this year, you definitely need to plan on attending
next year, just ask someone who was there, they will tell you the same.
Thanks to the Michigan Clubs who organized the event, without these
volunteers the Conference wouldn't have happened, all of your hard work paid
off in a big way!

Cheers!
Gary

- -------------------------
Gary Glass, Administrator
American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl Street
PO Box 1679
Boulder, CO 80306-1679
U.S.A.
Voice: (303) 447-0816 x 121
Fax: (303) 447-2825
Email: gary at aob.org
Web: http://www.beertown.org



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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:07:50
From: Jerry Berry <jberry at csn.net>
Subject: Munchen and Prahe

From: meierto at mindspring.com

>Leaving for Munich next week, and we will be travelling from 
>there to Prague and later Venice.  I have found alot of info 
>on biergartens, etc.. but I would like to hear from fellow 
>HBD'ers who have been there and done that. Our schedule is 
>already full, but I was wondering, if you had to pick one 
>brewery or beer related place to visit in Munich or Prague,
>what would it be?  Many thanks to all who respond! 

Just got back; only had time for a beer and brat in Munich -passing
through- at the market near the Marian Platz (close spelling, maybe not
bang-on.  You can hardly go wrong, German Weizenbiers are excellent.  At
the market they are draft -or draught- and fresh.  A sample of two, SO and
myself.

In Prague, you should save plenty of time for drinking and sitting in the
sidewalk cafes.  More culture and pretty girls there than in Munich
 -WARNING: opinion, not documented.  (Enjoying a half liter in Wencislus
(sp?) (of "Good King..." fame) Square when a striking blond in an orange
skirt split to here (trying to point to my waist, it's here somewhere) with
matching orange hot pants ambles -strides- by.  The entire assemblage of
tourists and natives watches in silence until she passed, then we all burst
into a round of applause.  Then another half liter.  One of my fondest
memories of Prasgue.)  Don't know that I ever went into an actual pub or
bar; usually just sat down and ordered "Pivo" and enjoyed what came.  In a
few cases, noticed that it came from a tap labeled "Pilzner Urquell", as
near as I could make out from the Czeck labeling.  What an atrocious
alphabet!  One thing worth noting in Prahe; in several places -museums,
train stations, etc- I noticed that directions/information were given in
four languages.  And none of them was English.  According to a tour guide
with whom I walked around one of the streets, Prague has about 1.25 million
residents, and on any day of the year, they are outnumbered by tourists.
Everything is inexpensive; my half liters ran from just over a dollar to
almost two dollars.  At some point I realized I should start drinking 1/3
liters; there was no discount for volume.

Enjoy both places; I did.
"In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni."  
("We enter the circle in darkness and are consumed by fire".)
jberry, Aurora, Colorado


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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:57:31 +1000
From: "Richard Pass" <richard.pass at anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Just A Bit Disappointing

<<Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:35:43 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Just A Bit Disappointing

My little experiment with kit beers, or extract beers if you prefer, has
nearly reached completion in the primary. A taste of it today indicates it
is going to be a disappointment. I guess the very reason that a lot of us
have moved on to mashing is the reason for this. To my way of thinking,
there just isn't any way of making a really good beer unless you take
complete control of the process and start from scratch.
Steve Alexander told me it was so.
Wes Smith said the same.>>

Baron Phil,  not wishing to contradict Steve Alexander or even Wes but if
you want to brew a more than adequate beer for the swilling classes but
don't wish to expend the effort/time for a mash, a pretty good compromise
can be achieved by using, for a 22 litre brew, 3 kg of light (spray)dried
malt extract of good quality and performing a 1 hour boil with good Czech
Saaz hops (if you can find some) to about 30 IBUs (or perhaps 20 for the
billiard room ladies). Total brewing time is around 2 hours depending on
your kettle power and wort chiller.

We recently instigated one of our regular challenges at the Canberra Brewers
with the idea of "levelling the playing field" for all levels of brewers.
The challenge was to brew the best possible pilsner without mashing.  I
secured 3 kg of finest light dried malt extract from Regan and I have to say
the result, in my own not so humble opinion, is far from being a
disappointment.  Not quite as delicately flavoured as the full double
decoction mash version but still a very drinkable pils and why cast your
pearls before swine?

BTW the Ayinger yeast plated out very clean and uniform and is being readied
for a triple decoction Dunklesbock this weekend.  Many thanks!

Cheers,
Brother Pass-the-bottle







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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 22:42:05 EDT
From: RBoland at aol.com
Subject: Phil's Disappointment

I'm sorry to hear that Phil was disappointed in his attempts to brew good 
extract beers, but many brewers have been quite successful at it.  We sample 
ten to fifteen homebrews of a given style at each of our monthly meetings.  
In many instances you can't tell the extracts from the all grains from the 
commercial examples; they're all that good.  As in all grain brewing, the 
recipe, quality of ingredients, quantity of yeast pitched, fermentation 
conditions, and brewer technique all effect the quality of the finished 
product.  Use of extracts eliminates some control over the beer, but this is 
not a problem for many ale styles.  Several of the qualifying entries in MCAB 
II were extracts.  I'd suggest he give it a try again as well as tasting some 
of the beers crafted by experienced extract brewers.

Bob Boland
President, St. Louis Brews


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