---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Pressure expectations...the saga continues... (William Macher)
  Re: Pressure expectations...the saga continues... (Jeff Renner)
  RE: pony kegs (Scott Abene)
  Lallemand Scholarship ("Rob Moline")
  Drinking in Public (Ant Hayes)
  Where in OZ, Aylinger yeast ("Graham Sanders")
  Extracting Insults ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Troubles Up North? ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Kit Beers (Jim Bermingham)
  Beer and the Australian Federation (LyndonZimmermann)
  Fruit Lambic Question ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Lambics ("Marc Gaspard")
  Re: London Pubs to visit, etc (Lynhbrew)
  Re: Corn and Clarity (Jeff Renner)
  Re: NHC CAP Handout  Part 1 (Jeff Renner)
  Re: pony kegs (piatz)
  AHA Conference ("St. Patrick's")
  Charleston, S.C. and Savannah, GA ("Dittmar, Robert D")
  Church keys and old geezers ("Mercer, David")
  Temperature controller help... (Some Guy)
  RE: Congrats, Corn and Clarity (LaBorde, Ronald)
  oh the horror! (Jim Liddil)
  Oversights ("Paul Gatza")
  Questions on mashing, sparging, and aeration (Tom Riddle)
  AHA NHC T-Shirts (fwd) (Some Guy)
  Ohio Law ("Paul Gatza")
  Questions about malted buckwheat (Jim Adwell)
  Re: Just a little bit disappointing (SW) James Pensinger" <pensinger at deyo.navy.mil>
  Re: Old timey ( not that old) beers, Hudepohl and JD, church ("Val J. Lipscomb")
  Church key ("Robert A. Uhl")


* 2000 AHA NHC pics and stories at http://hbd.org/miy2k
* JULY IS AMERICAN BEER MONTH! Take the American Beer
* Pledge of Allegiance! Support your local brewery...

* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!


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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:06:02 -0400
From: William Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: Pressure expectations...the saga continues...


Hi All,

At this point the pressure in my keg seems to be increasing about 1 psi per
day...now 12.5 psi...

At 09:59 AM 6/26/00 -0400, Jeff Renner wrote:

>I'm no cellarman by a long shot, but I think you'll want to keep venting
>the pressure to something like 1/2 psi or you will have way overcarbonated
>beer for a real ale.  (BTW, I picked up The CAMRA Guide to Cellarmanship
>from Brewin' Beagle at NHC and this is a fascinating read for any real ale
>fan - I've just skimmed it so far).  At this low pressure, the lid may not
>stay sealed, but mine have.  I have luck racking my nearly finished beer
>into the Corny and sealing it.  After a week or so it's usually just about
>right, but sometimes I have to either vent or apply a little CO2 to adjust.
>Not up to CAMRA standards, but it works.

I have so little experience with priming of beer and natural
carbonation...I am afraid to do what Jeff suggests, while at the same time
knowing that I should follow the advice of someone who I have come to
recognize and one that is a fountain of knowledge as well as center of the
brewing universe!...What a wimp am I!

I guess I am confused by the force carbonation tables...is it possible that
at room temperature yeast can carbonate the beer at much lower temperatures
than I can with my CO2 tank?

>When I'm not going to the trouble of using my beer engine, I serve real
>ales by keeping enough pressure on it to dispense (~3 psi) and then use a
>pocket beer engine (or pocket sparkler, as someone re-christened it) to
>knock out the excess carbonation and raise a head.  This is a 5-10 cc
>syringe without the needle.  You suck up a bit of beer from the glass (be
>sure to leave enough freeboard if it's very carbonated), then squirt it
>back forcefulling into the glass.  The tinier the oriface of the syringe,
>the more shear you'll have on the beer, and the more effective it is.  My
>current one is an oral irrigator from a dentist, which has a fine tipped
>curved plastic spout.

My plan was to dispense at gravity and not worry about the head. My
recollection is that some or most beers I have been served in England [not
that many but enough...] did not have much in the way of a head anyway. Am
I off base here? Just learning and all that...

>>By the way, this beer will be served at cellar temps, by gravity, but using
>>a second corny keg with about a half lb. of pressure in it to feed the beer
>>keg to make gravity dispensing possible without the introduction of air.
>>Something that was discussed in the HBD a while back.
>
>Are you going to keep gas on the second Corny?  How are you positioning the
>keg?  Upside down with the fittings reversed?

This particular keg has an out tube that hits the bottom on one side,
different from the other kegs that I have where the exit tube bends to the
center. I first was planning to take the beer out the gas-in side, but with
this keg decided not to. I plan to lay the keg on its side and dispense
with gravity. I also plan to put a little co2 pressure on the keg in
between the co2 tank and the keg with the beer in it. I have a gage that
measures inches water col. so the pressure setting should be pretty
accurate, since the gage range is 60" water col. which equates to about 2 psi.

I was planning on keeping the gas pressure on the system at about 1/2 psi.
Since the ambient temp is around 70 currently, I also planned on reducing
the brew to "cellar temps" by covering with a blanket and putting a frozen
gallon milk container full of ice under the blanket.

The keg will lay on it side horizontal, with the outlet on the bottom. The
tap will be below the keg. The gas in will be above the keg, even if the
gas resovour[I know I did not spell that right, but not spell checker here]
keg is somewhere else...the tubing will loop up and over, so to speak.

Currently the keg pressure is about 12.5 psi. Should I vent? Should I vent
down to 1/2 psi?

Well, I do appreciate any advice that you guys would like to share!

I want to offer this brew to those who come over for a little July 4th get
together...including a family from GB. So any help you can give me is
greatly appreciated! Naturally it will be in addition to the three or four
others I will have on tap.

What a hobby!

As always...thanks much!

Now where did I leave my pool cue?

Bill




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:21:44 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Pressure expectations...the saga continues...

William Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com> wrote:
>Currently the keg pressure is about 12.5 psi. Should I vent? Should I vent
>down to 1/2 psi?

Only at serving/cellar temp.  If it is warmer, like room temperature, then
you'd need to keep the pressure higher so that it is around 1/2 psi at
serving temperature.  The charts can help you figure this.  The idea is to
have it only about 1 volume of dissloved CO2 or a little more.

Regarding head - beer in the south of England is indeed pretty headless.
Traditionally they frown on sparklers and use short swan necks on the beer
engines.  In the north, they like a creamy collar on the pint.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:22:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Abene <skotrat at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: pony kegs

In HBD# 3358 Jeff Renner wrote:

(Another old fart's side note here - small beer outlets that were
open on Sundays as exempt from Ohio "Blue laws" were called "pony
kegs" - which literally referred to 1/8 barrel (3.875 gallon) kegs. 
I wonder if they were called that anywhere outside of Cincinnati.)


Hmmm, 

I remember my dad going and picking these up in Cinci when I was but
a wee lad. I moved to NYC from Loveland, OH (outside Cinn.) when I
was 9 and never heard the term Pony Keg again until I moved back to
the MidWest. 

Maybe just a regional thing? 

C'Ya!

 -Scott

=====
ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT
Scott Abene <skotrat at mediaone.net>
http://www.skotrat.com (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page)

"The More I know about beer politics, The more I wish I made 120k"

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/


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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 00:11:16 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: Lallemand Scholarship

			Lallemand Scholarship

	Lallemand is pleased to announce that the Lallemand Scholarship was won by
Richard Sieben,  a member of the American Homebrewer's Association, of
Chicago, Illinois.
	The Lallemand Scholarship, worth 3,500 US dollars, provides a Short Course
in Brewing Technology to the world renowned Siebel Institute of Technology,
plus a thousand dollars for accomodations and travel to the winner.
	Lallemand representative, and American Homebrewer's Association Board of
Advisor's member, Rob Moline, drew the winning entry during the American
Homebrewer's Association National Homebrewer's Conference Award Banquet in
Detroit, Michigan on Saturday, June 24th, 2000.
	Mr. Sieben is an especially interesting winner of this Scholarship, as he
is a direct descendant of the Sieben Brewing Company, with roots that
include the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre, an infamous part of Chicago
brewing history.
	We at Lallemand congratulate Rich on his Scholarship, and look forward to
adding yet another chapter to the brewing history of the Sieben family!

Cheers!
Rob Moline
Lallemand

 "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:06:12 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Drinking in Public

Reading Rob Green's interesting story on fishing and church keys in the USA,
I noticed a comment reminiscing,

"of days when drinking a beer in public was not frowned upon"

I hope for your sakes that drinking in public doesn't include:

1. at a sports event
2. at the beach
3. at a concert
4. on a hike, etc.

Is neo-prohibition a reality?

Ant Hayes
Brewing where beer was invented.


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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 17:10:10 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: Where in OZ, Aylinger yeast

G'day all

Quick one from me this time.

Bill asked "where in Oz is everyone'.

Well Bill, you should only concern yourself with true Ozzies, North of the
Tropic of Capricorn.  the rest are pale immatations.

Myself, a Town called Thuringowa.  Look at Lat 19s where it crossed the east
coast.  You'll see a Town called Townsville.  We are next door.  As for the
rest, well they're just down there, now if they would only stay there and
stop coming up here and pesting us locals as soon as the cold weather sets
in, we locals would be a lot happier.

Now after the State of Origin results, (opps football) I have to pay out on
both Phill and Richard. (eat it up boys this is rare).  Richard is right.
To all you who have received Phil's aylinger yeast, I have to confirm
Richard's findings. It is indeed very pure and uniform.  The brewmaster at
the "Hilton" has indeed stuck to the standards of cleaniness we would expect
in the north.

And to those who received a sample of Phils yeast treat it with care as if
it was a W-yeast pack.  You should get many cultures out of it with proper
santitation.  Goes to show that it DOES PAY with all this cleaniness and
santitation everyone talks about.

Shout

Graham Sanders



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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:42:23 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Extracting Insults

William Frazier writes :
>Phil writes about his poor attempt to make a kit beer >"Cheers - Phil Baron
>Of No More Kit Beers".  The latest National Geographic >has a great,
detailed
>map of Australia.  If you Oz types would tell us where you >live we could
>find you on the map.

Bill, for my part, I live in Burradoo. I do believe I have made that
painfully clear to everybody.
Are you telling me there are people in the world who don't know the
whereabouts of Burradoo?
Are you suggesting I am Baron of an unknown province?

Let me move on. Regarding my poor attempt at an extract beer. I was
concerned I would upset extract brewers with my comments, but I didn't want
to. Bob Boland, President of the St Louis area had a bit to say here as
well. And Richard Pass offered some advice.

My little experiment was to make a good beer from a kit (by this I mean
pre-hopped malt in a can). And let us not get too hasty. I only tasted it
still in the primary. It's got a long way to go yet before it is in the keg.
It may well surprise me.

If it doesn't turn out to meet my expectations I will experiment further,
despite announcing myself as "Baron Of No More Kit Beers".

I didn't want to insult extract brewers. I know you can make excellent beer
from extract. I used to love my brewed kit beers. But I suspect I have come
a long way in the last few years and it is now interesting for me to see
what I think of my origins.

And speaking of insulting people, just what is Eric Fouch upset about?
I write a glowing description of himself and he takes offence?

Do I really have to explain to him the meaning of the word "antipathie"? (I
hope not, I barely grasped it myself).

Now Eric likens my head to the swinging balls on an inverted bull.

This Eric, is truly insulting!!

Eric brought all this on himself. I have repeatedly warned him that his
recent and extended absence from the HBD was bound to precipitate something
dreadful.

I'm glad at least I have flushed him out into the open and away (at least
for a short time) from his obsession of making home videos of himself.

But for the record (and it hurts me to have to say this),
Jill and the gals think Eric is one big mean brute of a fellow and anxiously
await his promised visit to the province of Burradoo.

Cheers
Phil



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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:03:59 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Troubles Up North?

Graham Sanders, still reeling from his team's bitter loss (three times in a
row) on the paddock, and bitter about Pat Babcock's ruling on the matter,
now wants to "get up me" for his new found sex life.
>Now SWMBO thinks its
>sexy, and is over me like a nearly-wed.  Thanks Phil, if you >have seen her
>in a nightie, you'll understand if I deck you.

Graham, I'm really just a simple down to earth homebrewer.
I never offered up my services on marriage counselling.
I can appreciate your frustration at trying to brew in 45C heat.
I can appreciate your frustration with the Cane Toads being thrashed three
times in a row.

But Graham, please don't offer me images of your wife in a nightie.

I'm flat out coping with these home videos of Eric Fouch.

Cheers
Phil





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Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1988 08:23:05 -0500
From: Jim Bermingham <bermingham at antennaproducts.com>
Subject: Kit Beers

Baron Phil,
Don't throw out the kit beer.  Chill to 0 degrees C, serve in a frosted mug 
to your friends (?) that drink the OZ equivalent of Texas brewed Lone Star 
and Pearl Beers.  They will love it!

Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX.
www.angelfire.com/tx3/bermingham/brewery.html




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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 23:21:05 +0930
From: LyndonZimmermann <lyndonz at senet.com.au>
Subject: Beer and the Australian Federation

Greetings,

I was wondering whether the "Beer and the Australian federation" was going
to proceed, looks like Bill Frazier wants it to continue,  and what better
way of exploring this big brown land.  I'm from Adelaide, so go to the
middle and head down to the coast and you've just about got it right.  South
Australia is mostly desert, about 1.2 million people of which about a
million live in Adelaide.  
It's most famous for its wine, kicked off by a bunch of Lutherans who were
told by their King 150 years ago to merge with the Calvinists.  Lutherans
like their wine and the Calvinists of the time were a bit prude, so we got
out of there just as soon as we could find a ship.  Now if we could get the
quality of our beer up with the wine this place would be something!
Adelaide is the home of Coopers, makers of bottle fermented ales and great
beer kits.

One of our mates from FNQ (if you wouldn't say this to your Grandmother
you've got the pronunciation just about right) implies there is another
state up at the top of Queensland.  He's sort of right, the border is the
Tropic of Capricorn.  History books tell us they tried to secede from
(southern) Queensland at the time of Federation 100 years ago, but couldn't
agree on a capital so our "founding fathers" told them they were stuck with
Brisbane and they've bitched ever since!  I think they lost Cairns to
transmigration by southerners about a decade ago, but the rest of them are a
race apart, we down south avoid accepting responsibility for their actions.

Lyndon Z

Lyndon Zimmermann
BE (Mech Adel) Grad Dip Bus Admin (UniSA)
24 Waverley St, Mitcham, South Australia, 5062
tel +61-8-8272 9262 mobile 0414 91 4577 fax +61-8-8172 1494
email lyndonz at senet.com.au URL http://users.senet.com.au/~lyndonz



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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:05:36 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Fruit Lambic Question

Joel had a question regarding Fruit Lambics as do I:

>I have a friend who has requested a raspberry lambic, like Frambaise (sp).
>I believe it is a normal lambic, but for bottling instead of dry malt or
>corn sugar or wort, raspberries are used. The question is twofold:
>1. Is my theorem correct?
>2. If so, how much raspberry concentrate for a 5gal batch?

Joel, I'm making my first fruited lambic-style beer too ( or 'plambic' -
just to give proper respect to REAL lambics made only in Patyottenland) and
I've done a lot of reading on the subject over the past year that my brew
has been fermenting.  You can add raspberry concentrate (or any fruit
concentrate) at bottling time.  The amount will vary according to the
manufacturer as the concentrations rarely are the same.  Some are
pre-packaged for 5 gallon batches.  I have never used concentrate in my
'other' fruited beers, so I can't really speak from experience in their use.

However, I have tasted fruited beers made with concentrate vs. real fruit.
If you can manage it, I'd like to convince you to use real fruit in your
beer.  While concentrates are fine to use for the many cases when real fruit
is not an option, real fruit can give a much better taste to the beer.
Unless you *&#^ at  it up ;-)  Sometimes you can't taste the difference, but
more often than not, concentrates can impart an overly sweet or concentrated
"lolipop" flavor.  Plus, if you do a plambic right (using lambic cultures),
it should take about a year for the fermentation to complete.  Now you've
waited that long, why not go the extra step and spend a few more $$ and a
little more time to add real fruit?

Now for *MY* fruit question to the HBD:

Cherry season is here and I now have about 15 lbs of cherries picked,
cleaned and sitting in the freezer waiting to be added to my 1 year old
plambic so I can make a kriek.  However, I've got to make room in the
freezer before "She-who-can-bitch-much-and-make-your-life-miserable" says
anything about it.  My problem is that the pellicle is still on the top of
the brew and I have been told not to disturb it.  Let it crash naturally
before bottling otherwise you risk re-formation in the bottle or oxidation
of the beer.  If the plambic shows promise this weekend I plan on thawing
the fruit and racking the beer on top of it - pellicle or not.

My questions:

1. Is disturbing the pellicle in any manner a strict NO-NO and if so why?  I
doubt that anyone over there in Patyottenland is peering through the
bunghole of a wooden cask to check.  I think they just funnel the fruit in
regardless.

2. Since I'll be racking the beer from underneath the pellicle, should I
take all or some of it along along as well?  It's pretty thin and probably
can be racked with the beer.

3.  Would it hurt to pitch another small starter of Chico (or other clean
ale yeast) when I rack on top of the fruit?   I think most of the ale yeast
(S. cerevisiae strain) will be long dead and consumed by the other bacteria
present in the lambic culture?


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:09:41 -0500
From: "Marc Gaspard" <mgaspard1 at kc.rr.com>
Subject: Lambics

Hominid asked:

<snip>
I have a friend who has requested a raspberry lambic, like Frambaise (sp).

I believe it is a normal lambic, but for bottling instead of dry malt or
corn sugar or wort, raspberries are used. The question is twofold:

1. Is my theorem correct?
2. If so, how much raspberry concentrate for a gal. batch? (end snip>

Actually, raspberries are usually added to the casks as the lambic cellars,
after about 1-2 years maturing as a lambic.  You need this time for all
the necessary organisms (especially pedioccocus bacteria and Brettanomyces
yeast) to do their magic.  Then the beer is racked over the fruit to
macerate
(break it down and extract the sugars) and fermented another 1-2 years.

Lambics take a LONG time and require a lot of patience on the part of the
brewer.  Since they are usually aged in oak, some lambic homebrewers
have oak casks for ageing.  You can get around this by using oak chips.
I let my lambics age for a years in the primary, then split a 5-6 gallon
batch into a a kriek and framboise, with 6# fruit per 2.5-3 gallons of
lambic, and age another year.  For simplicity's sake I use plastic bucket
fermenters with spigots; this allows you to drain the lambic off the
floating
fruit easier.  I then do a tertiary rack to 3 gallon glass to clear.  Most
lambics ferment out pretty fully and you need to add a dose of yeast
(1056 works fine) with your priming sugar, and you can prime fairly high,
say about 4 oz. per 3 gals.  You want some fizziness.

Be sure to keep these fermenters separate from your other brews if poss-
ible; the different organisms can migrate and you don't want to infect the
rest of your brewery!

                                    Marc Gaspard


"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."-Ben Franklin



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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:11:52 EDT
From: Lynhbrew at aol.com
Subject: Re: London Pubs to visit, etc

In a message dated 06/26/2000 12:39:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
homebrew-request@hbd.org writes:

<< I will be in London England next week. I have CAMRA's good beer guide and 
 Protz's real Ale Almanac but I want more! Actually I want less. There are 
way 
 too many places listed for me to visit in the time I will have. Can anyone 
 suggest a short list of must-visits. In particular I am interested in 
 brew-pubs.>>
 
As for London Brew Pubs... 

I had the good fortune of a father that taught as a visiting faculty member 
for a year at Regent's College in London a couple of years ago. I made four 
trips to see him and was able to sample a good amount of beer in the process; 
including a side trip to Belgium, and one trip conveniently timed to coincide 
with the Great British Beer Festival. I agree completely, the CAMRA Good Beer 
guide can be overwhelming. 

I volunteered at the GBBF during setup days and while the festival was open. 
On the evenings following setup days they had some pub crawls (just in case 
the 30 kegs at the staff bar had not quenched your thirst). One such crawl 
visited some of the more famous spots in London. (This was 1998 so you may 
want to check the guide for updates on these places.) It starts at the Bank 
Underground stop, take exit 5: (By the way if you are going to be there for 
multiple days consider buying a multiday underground pass. It is the cheapest 
and fastest way to get around London. Take an extra photo of yourself, wallet 
size, if you have one.)

1. Lamb Tavern      10/12 Leadenhall Mkt        Built in 1880 - Youngs Beers
2. Swan         Ship Tavern Passage     Fullers Beers
                (a large number of the pubs are either Fullers of Youngs pubs)
3. Barrow Boy and Banker    London Bridge
4. Globe            Bedale St.          Variety of hand pumped Guest Beers
5. Wheatsheaf           6 Stoney St.            Good variety of guest ales 
(check this                                 one my notes show it may close 
due                                     to Thameslink 2000)
6. Lord Clyde           27 Clennam St.      Guest Ales
7. Royal Oak            44 Tabard St.           Range of Harveys beers

I did not go on this crawl but those that did said the pubs and beer were 
worth the walk. Another good bet is to tour the Fullers or Youngs breweries. 
Both have oddball hours so call ahead to be sure tours are on for the day you 
plan to visit. Also, I happened upon The Hope Sausage and Ale House, 15 
Tottenham St.,  after visiting the British Museum. It had a very good 
selection of guest ales, very good pub food, and a lively lunchtime work 
crowd that didn't seem to think twice about consuming multiple pints during 
the lunch break. 

Finally, if you have time go out to the CAMRA site and check out the festival 
listing before you go. There are multiple beer festivals every week of the 
year that range in size and quality. I visited two smaller festivals as well 
and found a good beer / cider selection and the people to be very friendly. 

<< Also, I have two particular questions about the drinking laws in London as 
we 
 will be travelling with a 15 yr old.
 
 1) What is the drinking age in England (I assume it is over 15 but you never 
 know).
 2) Are underage persons allowed in pubs if they are not drinking. >>
 
As for the laws I am not sure but I do remember seeing kids younger than 15 
in the pubs; though not necessarily drinking beer. The pubs do serve shandys 
(half beer, half lemon soda) so you counld try ordering up one of these for 
your son. I would suspect that the pub staff will correct you if you are in 
the wrong. 

Enjoy the trip, Lyn




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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:32:25 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Corn and Clarity

"Kevin Imel" <kimel at moscow.com> asked
>Sooo...oh learned ones: why do the beers with corn in them clear
>faster than virtually the same beers without corn in them?

My guess is that it's because the soluble protein in the beer is lower.
Corn has less protein than barley and much less soluble protein.

Corn is Good!

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:22:36 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: NHC CAP Handout  Part 1

Thanks to "Steinbrunner, Jim (JE)" <steinbrunnerje at dow.com> for pointing
out that in my NHC CAP talk handout, posted on HBD, I wrote

"Ferment at 48F until fermentation nearly stops, about 10 to 14 days, rack
to secondary and reduce temperature 4F per day to 0F. Lager six to seven
weeks."

As Jim pointed out, this would result in "Your Father's Popsicle."  This is
what comes from still retaining this relic system of measurement.  Of
course I meant 0C, or 32F.  (Pat - will you correct the copy posted on the
web?)

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:26:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: piatz at cray.com
Subject: Re: pony kegs

In HBD #3362 Jeff Renner mentions the disappearance of the old 1/8
barrel ponies.  Several years ago, back when Jim Page owned the James
Page Brewery in Minneapolis Jim had a stock of old ponies stored on top
of one of the walk-in coolers.  Of course those that have been to the
brewery know that Jim had a lot of old stuff in the place.  As far as I
know, Jim never actually filled the ponies.  I don't know if the kegs
are still at the brewery but I will ask about them when the
Minnesota HomeBrewers Association (http://mnbrewers.com/)
meets there on July 8th.  As I recall, the kegs were aluminum rather
than stainless steel.

- -- 
Steve Piatz             Eagan, MN


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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:03:53 -0500
From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at bga.com>
Subject: AHA Conference

Livonia was my first conference and I can only echo all the nice things
that have been said about it here.  Unfortunately, I could only stay till
Friday.  Thursday night was just a blast with all types of great homebrew
and the most energetic and genuine bunch of people you will ever see.

I heard from one fellow who said there was not a single glitch or hickup
during the entire event.  That speaks volumes about the people who put it
together.

One beer I really liked was made with buckwheat (not the honey)--very nutty
flavor.  I talked to the brewer but didn't write anything down.  Does
anyone know his name and how I can get in touch with him?

I began reading the digest in April 1990, just over ten years ago now.  The
digest has always been ahead of the curve and quite frankly still is.  I
was very pleased to see Pat and Karl earn recognition for their efforts.
My only regret is that Rob Gardner and perhaps others from the early days
have not also been recognized.

Lynne O'Connor
St. Patrick's of Texas
Brewers Supply
1828 Fleischer Dr
Austin, Texas 78728 USA
512-989-9727
www.stpats.com







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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:18:39 -0500
From: "Dittmar, Robert D" <Robert.D.Dittmar at stls.frb.org>
Subject: Charleston, S.C. and Savannah, GA

I am going to be vacationing in Charleston, S.C. for a couple of weeks in
early July, with a possible side trip to Savannah, GA.

Do any HBDer's know the area and have recommendations for brewpubs and/or
breweries to visit.

Rob Dittmar
St. Louis, MO


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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:03:26 -0700
From: "Mercer, David" <dmercer at path.org>
Subject: Church keys and old geezers

Like the other old farts in this forum, I remember the old tab-less beer
cans well, and remember the first pop-tops. The challenge was to open them
without flinging beer all over the place, and without pulling the ring off
but leaving the tab attached. But I also remember beer cans that required no
church key years before the introduction of the pop-top. When I was a kid
growing up in the fifties, my dad would occasionally drink beer in cans that
were shaped like the brake fluid cans of a few years back. These had a
conical top with a screw cap. My memory is clearest of him drinking from
cans like this in the mid-50's while on vacation in New England. I don't
know if it was just one brewery (didn't pay too much attention to beer
brands back then) but my admittedly imperfect recollection is that that can
style was fairly common. Perhaps our resident beer historian can tell me if
this is just a senior hallucination on my part.


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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 12:12:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Temperature controller help...


Hello All,

I had a temperature controller failure for my beer freezer
and I was wondering if anyone had experienced similar and/or
had recommendations for repair or replacement.

A week ago, I opened my chest freezer/beer fridge and found broken
glass, beer at the bottom, caps, a 5L mini-keg of czech pils bulged-out.
I wondering what had gone wrong b/c the temperature was normal
(i.e. at the temp I set the controller; ca 40 deg F).

Ruined/exploded were some old beers - a 1993 Courage's Imperial
Russian Stout, Niagra Brewing eisbock, some hand carried belgian
ales - westmalle dubbel, chimay grand reserve, orval trappist, my
yeast bank, and most of the remaining bottles of a batch of second
round entries to the aha nationals.  A bottle of pineapple mead from
1995 had a lot of precipiate but didnt shatter.

About 2 weeks prior to my finding the aftermath, I had purchased an
indoor/outdoor thermometer to monitor the temps in the beer room as
well as the freezer. The memory feature showed a low for the
"outdoor" probe at -17.4 deg F!!!!!!  (Might I recommend a Gibson
brand chest freezer for anyone needing one.)

This led me to believe that the controller failed causing the power
to stay on.  I talked with Williams Brewing's customer service
(where I bought the controller) who told me that the controller was
warrantied for one year (it's three years old).  Also, the usual failure
involved leakage of gas from the probe which resulted in out of
calibration temperature control.  The guy recommended that I
clean the controller's relay which, based on the evidence,
appears to have stuck on, and has now operated properly this
last week.

I am not sure I can trust this controller and I do plan on ordering
another controller.  Any suggestions/recommendations would
be appreciated.  (Also, if there is an electrican who can assure
me that giving the relay a cleaning will make it good as new.....)

cheers!
Stephen

(man with dog)
sandgklump at earthlink.net




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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:12:52 -0500
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Congrats, Corn and Clarity

From: "Kevin Imel" <kimel at moscow.com>

>Sooo...oh learned ones: why do the beers with corn in them clear 
>faster than virtually the same beers without corn in them?

The way I understand it, corn has little to no protein in it to cause the
haze.
So another way to think about it is that - Corn is in beer because corn
makes clear beer.

When the old world brewers arrived here in America, they discovered the high
protein barley available here needed to be diluted, so they started using
corn and rice.  Recently they have gone overboard and now dilute corn and
rice with barley!

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu
http://hbd.org/rlaborde



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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:09:55 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: oh the horror!

The papazian article in the new zymurgy strikes me as a direct take off on
conrads "heart of darkness" with ass eating fish and ball cutting grass
thrown in for good measure.  I'd rather watch apocolypse now.  Oh I get it
Hunter Thompson. :-)

Jim Liddil
North Haven, CT



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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:31:38 -0600
From: "Paul Gatza" <paulg at aob.org>
Subject: Oversights

How could I have possibly left Pat's name off of the list I posted yesterday
of the core committee for MIY2K who put in exceptional time and effort?
Also, during the awards ceremony I spaced Ken Schramm as one of the AHA
Club-Only Competition organizers during the past year. I think I left my
mind in the hospitality suite, or perhaps it shook loose during the
ill-fated dancing in Tremors. If anyone thought to pick it up for me, please
ship it to Boulder. Thanks.

Paul Gatza (mailto:/paulg at aob.org)
Director, American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl St., Boulder, CO 80302        voice(303)447-0816 x 122
fax (303) 447-2825
Join the AHA at http://www.beertown.org





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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 15:34:11 -0400
From: Tom Riddle <ftr at oracom.com>
Subject: Questions on mashing, sparging, and aeration


Hello all,

I am reviving my home brewery after a 5yr hiatus due 
to getting married, moving, basement flooding, etc.  
It is interesting to see the advances that have 
taken place in the hobby, and on this list, since 1995.

This past weekend I brewed up a simple pale ale 
using an infusion mash in a 5gal igloo fitted with 
a false bottom.  Although I have studied up on the 
latest writings of Miller and Papazian, I have a few 
questions on technique for the collective: 

1) Add the grains to the water, or water to the grains ?
Or does it matter ? I seem to vaguely remember something 
about balls of malt dust forming in one scenario, but not 
the other ??

2) When recirculating the first runnings, how clear is 
clear ?  Transparent or just free of particles ?
Miller says to recirculate for upto 15mins ?!?!
Again I seem to vaguely recall something about leaching 
tannins from the grain husk if you recirculate/sparge 
too much ??  What are the consequences of not recirculating 
enough ?

3) Concerning aeration of wort before pitching.  This is one 
topic that seems to have gotten very popular over the past
few years.  Is an aquarium or hand pump really necessary or 
will a simple venturi device (copper tubing with a few small 
holes drilled into it) at the end of the racking tube suffice ?

Thanks to all...

- -- 

Tom Riddle
Portsmouth, NH


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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 16:32:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: AHA NHC T-Shirts (fwd)

For anyone wanting one of the really cool 2000 AHA NHC shirts, information
follows on how to order...

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday


- ---------- Forwarded message ----------

Hi everyone. Here is the procedure for anyone that would like to purchase
one or more conference t-shirts. Please call our toll-free between 8 a.m.
and 5 p.m. MDT at 1.888.822.6273. Crissy, Soren or Nick in membership
services will take your name, address, credit card number and expiration.
Your card will be billed a flat $15 per shirt. We will take orders through
July 14th. On July 17th I will compile the list and forward it to Karl and
he will send the shirts direct to your address when he is able.




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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:42:40 -0600
From: "Paul Gatza" <paulg at aob.org>
Subject: Ohio Law

During the discussion of the Ohio crackdown at the members meeting at MIY2K,
Jeff pointed out a recent post regarding AHA's involvement on the Ohio
issue. In Steve's post he mistakes AHA's position on the matter as one of
hands-off. We have been involved in determining the relevant statutes and
forwarding documentation that we hope is helpful to get the LCA to back off
of SAAZ and the Rte. 82 Homebrewers. When I spoke with Art Beall at MIY2K,
he said the club had moved to individual homes for meetings. If Art, Brian
St. Clair or other Ohio homebrewers working on the issue are looking for
additional assistance on the matter, please contact me at
mailto:/paulg at aob.org.

Paul Gatza (mailto:/paulg at aob.org)
Director, American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl St., Boulder, CO 80302        voice(303)447-0816 x 122
fax (303) 447-2825
Join the AHA at http://www.beertown.org





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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 17:25:03 -0400
From: Jim Adwell <jimala at apical.com>
Subject: Questions about malted buckwheat

I just finished malting 25 lbs of buckwheat.

While searching thru the HBD archives, I found that Dan Listermann posted
about his experiences with malting buckwheat last year.  I am wondering if
he ( or anyone else ) knows what extract yield to expect from malted
buckwheat.  I found ( as did Dan ) that my buckwheat malt did not contain
enough enzymes to convert itself, so I am not sure whether or not to
believe the results of my test mash ( 22 points, more or less).

As a point of reference, I soaked the unhulled seeds for 24 hours; some of
them were showing signs of germination while soaking.  After 2 1/2 days I
began forced-air drying, as the roots ( or maybe the acrospires? ) were
about 3/4" long.  The germination was near 100%, and very even ( unlike
what Dan reported).  Perhaps I needed to germinate them for a longer period
of time to develop the enzymes.  I read somewhere that buckwheat sprouts
will break the surface of the ground in 2-3 days from planting, which, if
true, is pretty darn fast, and from my malting experience, I can certainly
believe it.  The malt was air-dryed for 2 days and then finished at 120F in
the oven for 12 hours ( in shifts over several days ).

Anything anyone can tell me about their experiences with malting and making
beer from buckwheat will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Jim

BTW, I bottled the oat beer I mentioned in a previous post.  It tasted very
nice for green beer, but I am going to wait for a couple weeks to do a
final  taste test.  It is a nice light golden amber color and about as
cloudy as a wheat beer.

Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://home.ptd.net/~jimala/brewery/


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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 17:31:26 -0400
From: "FC1(SW) James Pensinger" <pensinger at deyo.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Just a little bit disappointing

I read Phils post with laughter (not at you Phil) but about a little
experiment I made in the same direction.  Our club had a English ale
competition in January which I took 3rd place in.  The key was that the beer
was a can of Black Roak extract and like 3 pounds of corn sugar.  I did not
boil it and used the yeast under the lid.  

I did not expect it to stand up to any of the beers that I made and was
surprised that it wasn't bad.  It wasn't great either but people drank it.

On another note to that... My friend George makes some of the best beers I
have had and he is an extract with grain brewer.  I am slowly converting him
to grain due to the cost savings.

I guess the bottom line is that we are all critical of our beers but most
people will not notice those subtle things we think are so pronounced.

Mike Pensinger
beermaker at mad.scientist.com



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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 17:37:50 -0500
From: "Val J. Lipscomb" <valjay at netXpress.com>
Subject: Re: Old timey ( not that old) beers, Hudepohl and JD, church


Greetings Oldtimers,

One of the beer mysteries of my life is the search for the name for
a brew from the '50s. In about '52 or '53,there was a strike of some
kind (brewery or Teamsters) that cut off the beer supply to the Carolina
coast.All us beachbums could get was a sorta generic beer with trivia
q&a on the can. My tired old brain only remembers the name was Enslingers
or similar. The cans were kinda fun and the beer was OK-it was the 50's,
so any beer was good to us. Church keys,were a standard tool of the day
and I even saw a few used as weapons-Myrtle Beach could get rough late
at night. Anyone else out there who remembers the beer and the real name?
FWIW,PBR was my beer of choice in those days-had a real spicy note which
I now know was the hops-then it was BEER and thats all that counted.

Val Lipscomb-brewing CACAs & PAs in San Antonio



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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:50:46 -0600
From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl at austinc.edu>
Subject: Church key

> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:40:32 -0500
> From: Bruce & Amber Carpenter <alaconn at arkansas.net>
> Subject: Church key origin
> 
> While the subject is up, thought I would ask the question. Why is it called
> a church key? The shape of the hole it makes resembles a steeple, I suppose.

It's my understanding that it's the same as calling a toilet a church
seat--it's vaguely rude...

Robert Uhl


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