---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Aussie brewers/Kits beers/Importing ingredients ("Adam Ralph")
  re where in Oz (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  Topping Up a Racked Plambic - How To? ("Mark Nelson")
  Oz in Winter (LyndonZimmermann)
  Beer places in Holland, MI? ("Russ Hobaugh")
  Cherries (Hop_Head)
  LIDDIL! (Jim Liddil)
  Whareareya ("Dave Edwards")
  hangovers/folk-remedies ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Stroh's Signature/Wheat Beer Flavoring/Golden Ale (Bob Hall)
  fruit for lambics, etc. (Marc Sedam)
  Re Lead and  brass again ("John Palmer")
  Chemical Oxygenation (Dan Listermann)
  Canning bulk extract - moving to all-grains ("Perry Q. Mertz")
  homebrew clubs, electing officers? (Bill.X.Wible)
  Water Analysis (stevewo)
  mashing with fresh sweet corn? ("Dan Senne")
  bulging cans (ALABREW)
  e-coli-proof beer? ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Archives totally htmlized.... ("Lutzen, Karl F.")


* 2000 AHA NHC pics and stories at http://hbd.org/miy2k
* JULY IS AMERICAN BEER MONTH! Take the American Beer
* Pledge of Allegiance! Support your local brewery...

* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:00:48 WST
From: "Adam Ralph" <bluehillsbrewing at hotmail.com>
Subject: Aussie brewers/Kits beers/Importing ingredients

Bill asks for an explanation of where Aussie brewers reside.  Typically, 
Graham from FNQ (not only a different state but different entirely) sings 
the virtues of heat and humidity.  Poor Graham does not have much climatic 
variation to speak of (no winter and no spring, only wet or dry) and thus is 
culturally impaired.  He for one can not enjoy a winter ale.  A word of 
caution about people from "Up North", its the heat that does it.

Whilst he's up there, I'm over here.  Perth can be found by going all the 
way over to the left of the map.  We have the best climate (including hot 
and cold Graham), excellent beaches, great sporting teams of HUGE success, 
poor commercial beer (no different to other states on this one), and a 
strong disdain of Easterners.  In that regard, we sympathise with 
Queenslanders (and their abhorrence of Southerners) and South Aussies (who 
also have a healthy hatred of Victorians - there's nothing like sticking it 
up a Vic).

- ------------------------
- -----------------------

Phil, with regard to the kit beers, its good to know that my 6 hours on brew 
day are not a complete over-complication and waste of time.  I've recently 
tasted some pretty reasonable kits.  What I found was there is a lot to be 
gained by using extra malt instead of sugar.  Finishing hops definitely 
required.  Also, partial mashing a kilo of pale malt helps.  Oh, and don't 
forget to trade in the yeast for something that better represents your 
chosen style.  Ah, bugger it, you might as well forget the kit and mash the 
whole lot.  Similar effort, better result.


- -------------------------
- -------------------------

Someone recently asked about importing ingredients into Australia.  Coming 
from an Agricultural and Plant Protection background, I would urge caution.  
We really can do without more weeds, fungi and/or insects courtesy of the 
rest of the world.  AQIS stated that you would require a phytosanitory 
certificate and a tragaderma (grub, bug or weevil - I'm not sure) free 
certificate.  Can St Pat's and the likes provide this?

You would then have to go through a customs broker.  The associated costs 
are quite scary.  Any comments Regan?

Finally, congratulations to Pat and Karl on the recognition of their 
efforts.

Adam.
Blue Hills Brewing.
 -180, -180 Renerian (probably).
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 15:19:56 +1000 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at Aus.Sun.COM>
Subject: re where in Oz

With all the geographical quizing of late, theres one thing that
everyone should remember.

Sydney is not only the Olympic City, it is also the Centre of the Universe.
Burradoo is but a mere "outer suburb" for many sydney folk.

Nowhere really else matters. After all, if they did, they would have the 
Olympics and play proper Football (now sensei you are considered a seperate
entity even though football is a common bond)

GO THE BLUES

Scotty

Sydney, where you can surf, brew and drink 3 Sheets all year 
and get by with just a jumper in winter.



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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 08:38:35 -0400
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: Topping Up a Racked Plambic - How To?

Speaking of all the lambic notes floating around these days, what is an
appropriate way to top up a plambic?

I have a ~15 month plambic in secondary.  Through the racking process and
several taste tests, I'm a quart or two short.  The problem (besides
possibly oxidation with a large inactive headspace) is that I have a few
small bluish, green mold colonies at the beer-air interface.  I'd like to
rack again and top up.

Would it be a problem to top up with a cheap commercial American-style wheat
beer?  Could I basically make a starter and use it - introducing more sugar?
Any thoughts from the collective?

Mark Nelson
Atlanta, GA



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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 22:32:49 +0930
From: LyndonZimmermann <lyndonz at senet.com.au>
Subject: Oz in Winter

Bill,

Your winter is our summer, Adelaide during Nov-Feb can get to 42C (I don't
know what that is in you old numbers) and dry.  I recall an overnight low of
35C. It can also be cool. FNQ will be generally hot and muggy near the
coast, hot and dry inland.  Under the hot of these circumstances ice-cold
watery Australian lagers do go down very nicely!

But it can also be cold in what we call our alps.  If you get overheated you
may find snow on Koscuiszko (our highest mountain), or in Tassie even that
time of year. Look for Canberra on the map and head south a bit, almost to
the Victorian border for Kossie. I was snowed on bushwalking two days after
Christmas two years ago near there.  Time then for a Scottish Ale I think.

Gen set, freezer and a trailer and you can brew on the go!  If you're
touristing and escaping the winter you may have trouble actually finding a
local in Queensland to complain, you'll be so overrun by Japanese, Germans
and Victorians.

Sorry for not partaking in serious discussions about beer lately, I've just
been racking off our Cab Sauv, have to bottle about 60 litres of M/C
Chardonnay on the weekend and my ... half dug cellar has half filled with
water, drowning my precious beer, olives and shiraz in mud.  My half built
RIMS remains just that. Still thinking of the BASIC Stamp controller and
DS1620 temperature sensors for the controller.  Any clues?

But I was pondering a Lambic.  Never tasted one but have some yeast on
order.  Sorry for the sacrelige, but what concentrate would be a good base
for an experiment?  We don't have any Belgians here to ask (I think we
confuse them in our ignorance with the French, and we DEFINITELY don't let
the French in, Muroroa and all that).

Regards,

Lyndon Z

Lyndon Zimmermann
BE (Mech Adel) Grad Dip Bus Admin (UniSA)
24 Waverley St, Mitcham, South Australia, 5062
tel +61-8-8272 9262 mobile 0414 91 4577 fax +61-8-8172 1494
email lyndonz at senet.com.au URL http://users.senet.com.au/~lyndonz



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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:18:19 -0400
From: "Russ Hobaugh" <Russ_Hobaugh at erm.com>
Subject: Beer places in Holland, MI? 



Next week, I will be in Holland, Michigan for business.  I know that this
is approaching the center of the brewing universe, so I would be
eager to know where to go and have some great beer while I am
there. I will have a car, so distance is not a problem.  TIA




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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:21:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hop_Head at webtv.net
Subject: Cherries

Bing cherries are on sale at my local grocery this week and I was
thinking of making a cherry summertime brew. This is what I have come up
with so far (with a little help from my friends): 5 lbs light DME 3 lbs
Wheat extract 
1 lb candi sugar
1 lb honey
5 lbs cherries (in primary)
5 lbs cherries (in secondary)
8 oz 40=B0 crystal (steeped 30 min.)
8 oz cara pils (steeped 30 min.)
2 oz hallertauer (60 min)
1 oz Tetnanger (15 min)
Wyeast 1056 (American ale) 
Now, what I am concerned about is, will the sweetness from the bing
cherries overpower the hop bitterness? Should I use a different hop?
Will the cherries in the primary add fermentable sugars and thus
alcohol? Will the cherries in the secondary cause fermentation to "take
off" again? Maybe I am just putting too much thaught into this and I
should just BREW IT. lol 
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks, Jim



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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 06:23:57 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: LIDDIL!

> a gallon jug that had developed a powdery pellicle.  I emailed Jim Liddell,

LIDDIL it's a palandrome.

>      On a side note; at last year's AHA National's in Olathe, KS, I did a
> presentation on lambics for beginners and had the good fortune to meet
> Doug Faynor, who made the commemorative gueuze for the conference,
> and Charles Gottenkienney, a master lambic brewer and only two-time
> winner of AHA National BOS.  Both feel (and convinced me) the desig-
> nation "plambic" is unnecessary.  After all, we're using as close as we can
> get to the real ingredients used in making lambics.  My only difference is
> I have cherry tree in my front yard and that's what I use.

For lambics I beleive in the designation of appalation controlle (sp?).
Sure even Van roy thinks we don't need to use the plambic term.  But we
are not using sponataneous fermentation.  Few of us have oak barrels
infected with the right mix of microbes.  What we make is in the style but
not the real thing.  Just my view.

> 
> yes, you could cheat and cut down the time, and use syrups...but then
> you couldn't call it a lambic, could you? American fruit wheat with a
> bad infection maybe, but not a lambic :<)  (Sorry, just feeling a
> little spoiled after drinking that case of Hansen's at the AHA
> National Convention....Eat your heart out Jim Liddel!!!)

LIDDIL

Well actually here in CT we can get lots' of hansens, boon cantillion
westmalle etc.  Oh and I never saw so much bigfoot when I was in AZ.  So
though I am happy for you I am not deprived. :-)


Jim LIDDIL
North Haven, CT



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Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:21:48 +0930
From: "Dave Edwards" <eddiedb at senet.com.au>
Subject: Whareareya

G'day,
Thomo wrote:
| You might find Hahndorf in the Adelaide Hills (aka Mount Lofty Ranges) 30
| kilometres s/e of South Australias state capital, Adelaide.


If you head East from Toms place, you'll come out of the hills, and onto the
Adelaide plane. Walk North a bit and you'll be in Modbury. Seems there are a
few of us Adelaidians here.

Cheers,
Dave.



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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:06:21 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: hangovers/folk-remedies

Steve brings up, >>The conclusions: Hangovers are not well understood
and not treatable.<<
  Not understandable definitely, not treatable; well that depends.
The mention of vitamins is solid advice, I stoke up on "stress tabs"
(vitamins B and C) before a big judging round or our annual picnic;
vitamins definitely help. But you've forgotten your vitamins and now
you head feels like a leaden fuzz ball and your stomach wants to crawl
out your mouth. As tough as it may sound try getting something spicy
down, a "Virgin Mary" (Bloody Mary no vodka) with an extra shot of
Tabasco sauce, or a bowl of chili. Try a sip or nibble if your stomach is
refusing input, give it a minute, then another sip or nibble. Soon the head
quits throbbing and the stomach comes back down out of your throat.
Can't say exactly why, but it works. I suspect that spicy peppers, being
vaso-dilators, bring blood pressure down and help relieve the pounding.
The various salts also help restore electrolytes which could help neurons
start firing properly again. Alcohol definitely throws off electrolytes by
confusing the kidneys. So something with vegetables (or juice), pepper
and salt gets you at least mobile. 
Menudo works too but I hate tripe :-(

Remember 60% of our medicines are plant based.

     N.P.(Del) Lansing


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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:54:58 -0700
From: Bob Hall <nap_aca_bh at nwoca.org>
Subject: Stroh's Signature/Wheat Beer Flavoring/Golden Ale

All of this recent nostalgia has been great for us oldtimers .... just
hope the topic doesn't swing to personal medications! Anyway, I think
the beer that opened my eyes to a higher level of quality was Stroh's
Signature. It was such a revelation to my uncultured taste buds that I
even wrote Stroh's a letter of appreciation. Can anyone out there give a
little background on Signature, history, clone, etc. I wish I had a
bottle now just to see if it was really as good as I remember.

Secondly, I made an American wheat that is fine by itself or a wedge of
lemon. My wife and guests started adding half a teaspoon of Davinci
raspberry syrup that was purchased as coffee flavoring from the local
coffee shop. Has anyone used this type of flavoring during the brewing
process? Would it best be added during primary, secondary, or at
bottling? Or should I just keep adding it to the glass prior to pouring
 .... not elegant during a party but effective.

Finally, one of my favorite ales is the golden from Columbus Brewing,
Columbus, OH. Anyone who could provide info or a clone recipe will be
worshipped.

Bob
Napoleon, OH



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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:13:00 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: fruit for lambics, etc.

All that talk of lambics reminded me to post a very cool
link.  http://www.countryovens.com/

This company sells the somewhat famous Montmorency cherries
of Door County, Wisconsin.  BUT, they dry them with a little
bit of sugar and completely without preservatives.  Four
pounds of fresh cherries is reduced to 8oz of dry cherries.
The flavor is impeccable and they're available year round.
If you've ever tried New Glarus Brewing's Wisconsin Cherry
Red, these are the same cherries.

These fruits (they sell blueberries and cranberries as well)
would be perfect for an almost authentic kriek.  Two pounds
of dry cherries (equivalent of 16lbs fresh) cost ~$20.  I
used them last year in a Berliner Weiss (it sounded fun) and
it was lovely.

Usual no affiliation statement applies.

Cheers!
Marc



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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 08:47:43 -0700
From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Re Lead and  brass again

Graham found silvery coloured brass ball valves at the hardware store,
and wonders about their preparation for use.

Sounds like your ball valves are chrome plated, which renders them
inert. Just wash them and soak them if you want to, can't hurt.

John Palmer
jjpalmer at realbeer.com
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/
How To Brew - the book
www.howtobrew.com/





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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:57:10 -0400
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Chemical Oxygenation

Thanks for all you out there who have had more chemistry than is good for
you for answering my question about fermenting under pressure.  Generally,
it seems, that if not taken to extremes, there is no problem and no
patricular benefit either.  Great!

Now, Is there a non gas way to oxygenate wort?  I am thinking hydrogen
peroxide or something.

Thanks!

Dan Listermann    dan at listermann.com    72723.1707 at compuserve.com


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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:11:38 -0500
From: "Perry Q. Mertz" <pqmertz at netweavers.com>
Subject: Canning bulk extract - moving to all-grains

Been awhile since I was active both here and in brewing.  Built a new house
and the wifey kept saying "I don't want that smell in the house".  Oh
well... ok I'll move outside.

Just ordered bulk extract in 2 ea 33lb plastic jugs.  I guess they have a 2"
or so neck on them.  Plan on brewing like a mad man for a while, but am
concerned that once I crack the seal on the jugs I should do something.
Have thought about putting the extract into 1 quart mason jars, throwing
them into my brew pot with new lids on and seal them up for about 5 minutes
or so.  Is this a good idea?  Heating the wort again, before actually
brewing any problem?  The glass would be nice because could put that into
the hot water when you go to use it to get all the sticky stuff out.

Also, thinking about going all-grains.   I know this is a rather lame
question, but...  I like basic British ales.  Bass, some porters etc.  If I
can buy M&F extract for $1.75/lb, am I going to REALLY increase the taste of
my beer that much, or is the ego thing about doing it all yourself worth it?
BTW:  I always add speciality grains to my extract brewing.  Don't want to
start a war, just interested in comments.

Have a great day and cheers!



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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:48:25 -0400
From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com
Subject: homebrew clubs, electing officers?



Our homebrew club has elections coming up.  I'd like to ask all of you
who are involved with homebrew clubs if you have a list of club officer
positions, and if anybody has anything in writing that might describe the
role and responsibilities of each.  If so, can you point me to a url or send
it to me via email?

We currently have a president, vice president, secretary, newsletter
editor, and treasurer.  It's obvious what the newsletter editor and treasurer
do.  But what about the others?

I'd also be interested in hearing how other clubs handle the election
process.  First, on what time period are they held?  Every year, every
other year, etc.   Second, do you formally vote, or is it usually just a
matter of someone just shouting out "I nominate so and so.  All in favor?"
The latter is how our first election went.  I personally don't think that's a
fair process that encourages any kind of election process, especially
when its done at a club meeting with less than full club turnout.   This time,
I'm going to ask that elections be held  through a private vote, like real
elections are done, using ballots or even plain paper.

I'd like to get opinions and stories from others.

Thanks.

Bill




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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 14:01:32 -0600
From: stevewo at us.ibm.com
Subject: Water Analysis



OK....... any of you water people care to tell me what my water report
"really" says?  Here is the report:


Coefficient
               Mean      Median          Standard  Minimum   Maximum
Count                  of
                                   Deviation
Variation

Hardness (ppm) 102       105       15.5       59        144       30
15%
TDS (ppm)      224       224       25.8       157       298       30
12%
Sodium (ppm)        30        30         5.0       18        38        30
     17%
ph (units)          7.7       7.8        0.32           6.9       8.2
30        4%
Chlorine (ppm)      0.8       0.8        0.12           0.6       1.0
30        14%
Temperature (deg C) 25.5      25.4       1.47           22.1           28.0
     30        6%

Presently, I do nothing to my water for brewing.  I use water that I gather
from the fridge water dispenser that has a carbon filter between the hose
from the house line and the hose to the fridge.  I make all my (American)
pale ales and lagers using this water.  I all-grain brew using this (carbon
filtered) water for my mash water and sparge water.  I've never had any
complaints nor problems, but it can never hurt to be better!

TIA,

Steve Wood
Corona, AZ.
Internet: stevewo at us.ibm.com




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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:43:08 -0500
From: "Dan Senne" <dsenne at intertek.net>
Subject: mashing with fresh sweet corn?

Although the season is short, here in Collinsville, IL we're blessed with
some outstanding sweet corn during the summer.  It comes in white,  yellow
and mixed.  It really is wonderful, the best I've ever had.
Has anyone ever brewed using fresh corn as an adjunct? Or must it be dried
and ground in order to me mashed? As I said, the season is short and it's so
popular it goes pretty quickly. I doubt that they leave any on the stalk to
dry.

Dan Senne
Collinsville, IL



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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:20:37 -0500
From: ALABREW <alabrew at mindspring.com>
Subject: bulging cans

Al Beers asks about bulging extract cans of Mountmellick stout extract
and should he: a) toss 'em or b) Use w/ caution? 

I would go ahead and use them. I have seen these cans numerous times
with a bit of a bulge and no flavor difference. Why not go ahead and
brew it if you are going to toss it anyway? You can always toss it later
in the brewing process if the flavor is wrong at racking.

Al also states: Contents will be boiled for an hour.... 

We recommend that canned kits only be boiled for 5 min. for sanitation.
Further boiling only serves to darken the beer (though not a problem
with a stout) and to caramelize the flavor. The manufacturer doesn't even
recommend boiling for the 5 min. 

I don't know where this "boil for 1 hour" thing started with hopped
kits. Just out of curiosity, I looked back in the NCJHB and noticed that
Charlie only recommended a 15 min. boil for hopped kits (see p.182-183
and p.187) IMHO, it is doubtful that you wouldn't get much, if any, more
bitterness from a long boil.

- -- 
Kim and Sun Ae Thomson
ALABREW Homebrewing Supplies
http://www.mindspring.com/~alabrew
mailto:alabrew at mindspring.com
Birmingham, AL
Home Beer and Wine Making Specialists



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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:01:12 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: e-coli-proof beer?

A friend of mine in the food science dept at UF sent me the following. My
question would be, what is hexametaphosphate and could it be a viable
ingredient in beer? If so, it opens up a whole new realm of shitty marketing
possibilities (but at least AB won't be playing in that arena - not enough
hops).



COMBINED EFFECT OF HOP RESINS AND SODIUM EXAMETAPHOSPHATE AGAINST CERTAIN
STRAINS OF ESCHERICHIA COLI
June 2000
Journal of Food Protection: Vol. 63, No. 6, pp. 735740.
TADASHI FUKAO and HARUMICHI SAWADA
YOSHIYUKI OHTA
Abstract
The combined antimicrobial effects of hop resins with sodium
hexametaphosphate, glycerol monocaprate, and lysozyme were
investigated aiming to make an effective agent against Escherichia coli.
When they are used separately, the antimicrobial activity against E. coli
was minimal. However, the combination of hop resins with sodium
hexametaphosphate exhibited strong antimicrobial activity against E. coli,
but no effect was found in combinations of hop resins with the other agents.
The activity was strongest when the combination was added at the
beginning of growth of the bacteria, resulting in a prolonged lag phase.
However, when the antimicrobials were added during the log phase,
growth was depressed considerably. By addition of these materials, cell
components with absorbance near 260 nm were leaked out. This possibly
may have resulted from damage to the cell membranes of the bacteria. The
combined effect was also detected in model food systems such as
mashed potatos. The use of hop resins and sodium hexametaphosphate in
combination may thus be useful for controlling E. coli.




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Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 22:10:45 -0500
From: "Lutzen, Karl F." <kfl at umr.edu>
Subject: Archives totally htmlized....

My goodness, the silent janitor speaks!

After around 3 years of putting it off because of the various problems
with the format of the very old digests, I've finally gotten around to
converting the digests from 1988 through 1991 to a web browsable format.  
This finally completes a project which I thought up in 1996 (under some 
rather heavy pain killers after some surgery).  Nothing like putting off 
a project because it is dull and tedious.

Anyway, for your reading pleasure, the complete archive is available at:

		http://hbd.org/hbd

The next project is to put in a superior search engine, which has been 
built but not set up as I have not had the time.  I wonder how long this 
project will take me?

=====================================================================
Karl F. Lutzen                   | Computing and Information Services 
Scientific Programmer Analyst II | University of Missouri - Rolla
E-Mail: kfl at umr.edu              | 114 Computer Science Bldg. 
Fax: (573) 341-4216              | 1870 Miner Circle 
Voice: (573) 341-4841            | Rolla, MO 65409-0360
=====================================================================


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---