---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Kit Beers (Brad McMahon)
  Steve Michalak question ("Micah Millspaw")
  Wow! (RoniBoni44)
  Porket Grain Mill ("Dick Roark")
  fridge woes (Robert Phelan)
  Munich Malt ("Jack Schmidling")
  medical grade O2 ("Aaron Sepanski")
  medical grade O2 ("Aaron Sepanski")
  microbrewery stuff ("Luke Bolton")
  In Reply To Jim Arbuckle (Alemantoo)
  2nd  runnings and no-sparge (Ted McIrvine)
  Hitch Hikers And Homebrewing ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Belgian-Dutch Trappist Brewery (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Re: Soul Mate ("Grant Stott")
  Batch-Sparge (Ken Schwartz)
  Homegrown Hops (Ken Schwartz)
  RE: Problems Growing Hops (Art Tyszka)
  Sour mash ("Marty Gulaian")
  BAC rant ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re:  alkaline alkalinity (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Problems Growing Hops (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Salt and flat beer (Jeff Renner)
  Indian Head Maryland Beer spots? ("Spinelli, Mike")
  A pint of Ol' Salty, please ("Brian Lundeen")
  Topsfield Fair Homebrew Competition (Seth Goodman)
  Removing rust from stainless steel ("John Palmer")
  wife wanted (Prestoniam)
  Alkalinity (AJ)
  Question for Steve Michalek.... Old Busch ? (happydog)
  cold plate wanted ("Brett Schneider")
  honey to carbonate with ("sarina")
  Second Annual Blue Ridge Brew Off ("Jay and Arlene Adams")
  Sour Mash (Randy Barnes)
  Neo-Prohibition (mohrstrom)
  Question about a keg (Bill Wible)
  Genessee (Booth)
  Beer in Ann Arbor?? ("Al Beers")


* 2000 AHA NHC pics and stories at http://hbd.org/miy2k
* JULY IS AMERICAN BEER MONTH! Take the American Beer
* Pledge of Allegiance! Support your local brewery...
* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:45:35 +0930
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Kit Beers


From: "Jeffry D Luck" <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com>

>I've been catching up on HBD posts and ran across the 'kit beer'
>question.  When I go to my brew shop to get one of their kits, it comes
>with malt, specialty grains, hops out of the freezer and a choice of
>yeast, along with other incidentals like bottle caps and steeping bags.
>But they also carry several 1.5kg cans of hopped extract with a
>yeast packett taped to the top.  Is this latter what the world knows as
>'kit beer'?  If so, I offer my condolences.

Condolences accepted.
In the UK and Australia this is what is known as kit beer. What you
refer
to as kit beer is rarely available. Only a very few HB stores would
stock
something like that. 90% of "homebrewers" here are what we call "kit 'n'
kilo" brewers. One kit either 1.5, 1.6 or 1.8kg depending on brand and a
kilo
of table sugar. Bingo! An "expert" brewer. You must remember that most
Australian homebrewers have NEVER seen the inside of a homebrew store,
as
everything you need is available on the homebrew shelf of your local
supermarket. If you are an "expert" you add a "brew booster pack"
which contains a mix of sucrose, dextrose, dry malt extract and
maltodextrin in varying proportions.

Speaking of which, fellow Adelaide brewers, wasn't the Coopers
Homebrew Show a waste of time! Did you hear the advice given
at the beginners' seminars?? Attention EVERYONE.. bottle your
beer after 4-5 days of fermentation.. no matter what!!!!
That's what the man said... I guess the local hospitals will
be getting a lot of brewers visiting the emergency wards soon asking
for glass removal surgery...
Well done Coopers for such great advice you sponsored.
I'm just heartened that the sales of kits that contain specialty
grains, malt extract and finishing hops from the stall I was working at
was good. At least some people there were interested in making
decent beer.

In HBD 3373, Lyndon wrote:
>My prototoype RIMS has a grain capacity of 20 litres.  How much grain will
>this hold?  How much beer will it make?  I realise this will vary, but I'm
>just trying to get my proportions in order.

My 20l mash bucket will usefully hold about 6kg of grain mash. It will
hold perhaps 
1 kg more if I was to push it to the rim of the bucket but then it
becomes way
to slow to sparge. As per amount of beer.. yes it varies considerably as
there
are two variables: efficency and volume.

If you have 66% efficency you would get 25l of 1.047SG wort approx. from
6kg grain
            75%                         25l    1.054
            85%                         25l    1.061

Brad McMahon
Aldgate, SA


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:42:35 -0500
From: "Micah Millspaw" <MMillspa at silganmfg.com>
Subject: Steve Michalak question

I have several A-B questions for Mr. Michalak.

1. does  A-B still use strain masters?
2. does A-B use whirl pools or cool ships to settle wort?
3. does A-B reclaim the parcipitate from the whirl pool (or other)
and return it to a later mash?

Micah Millspaw - brewer at large



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 23:20:17 EDT
From: RoniBoni44 at aol.com
Subject: Wow!

Thanks again to everybody who helped me with the ginger beer.  I had more 
responses on this list than I've had on any other-- you all are great.  Going 
shopping for supplies this weekend, so I hope to report a successful first 
batch sometime soon.

Thanks again,

Veronica


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 03:44:23 GMT
From: "Dick Roark" <brewerxxx at hotmail.com>
Subject: Porket Grain Mill

Does anyone know anything about the Porket grain mill?  I understand
that it's made in Italy and is priced similarly to a Corona.  I have
looked around for some information on this, but so far no luck.

Thanks
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:22:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Phelan <rephelan at excite.com>
Subject: fridge woes


I just got a small commercial type fridge for scrap. It works but.... the
temp gradiant is 13 degrees F low to high with the low set at +33. the door
seals are leaking some and I've twidled with the temp controller thing-a-gig
but 13 is a close as I can get. When I got this unit, the range was +40
degrees so I'm getting closer. Since I know how to fix the seal problem, my
question for all of you refer gurus is, what is the difference of "cut in"
and "cut out" on the controller thing? Which do I turn clockwise to get a
tighter temp range? Things just seem to happen opposite of what I figure.
The more I mess with it the more confused I get, maybe I'm having one to
many brews wilst I ponder this puzzle.

Bread, Toast, Whatever,

Robert



Return to table of contents




Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 22:37:29 -0500
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Munich Malt

I have been using DWC Munich malt for years and never gave much thought
about what the name was.

I recently ran out and bought some from another supplier who had re-packaged
it in 5 lb bags and labeled it "Color Munich".

I bought 50 lbs and would hate to find out that it is some sort of caramel
when my mash doesn't convert.

Can someone offer any advice?

js

ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK  http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm
Home Page: Beer, Cheese, Astronomy, Videos http://user.mc.net/arf




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:5:27 -0700
From: "Aaron Sepanski" <madaarjul at earthlink.net>
Subject: medical grade O2

Ask your local gas company for food grade oxygen.  All the specs are the
same, but it is available to you.  You shouldn't have to change your tank. 
We went through a similar situation when the FDA changed their minds.



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:6:23 -0700
From: "Aaron Sepanski" <madaarjul at earthlink.net>
Subject: medical grade O2

Sorry, I forgot to tell you that the name of our O2 is called food fresh. 
Kind of ironic.



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:11:12 +0800
From: "Luke Bolton" <axelf at iinet.net.au>
Subject: microbrewery stuff

i want to start the five year plan of building my own micro-brewery and
would love to know what resources are on the web to get an idea of just how
much money you need etc.

Thanks

Luke
Australia
that is, Luke from Australia, not Luke Australia. Silly name really. But
then, there is a captain America isn't there! I wonder what his first name
is?  Freddy America?



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:10:08 EDT
From: Alemantoo at aol.com
Subject: In Reply To Jim Arbuckle

Jim stated that he was having trouble growing hops close to a black walnut 
tree and someone told him that may be the trouble he is having with his hop 
plants. Believe me I am no farmer but I was reading about grape growing on a 
sight called The Grape Grower's Notebook. There is a section there on trees 
and it agrees with what you were told. He feels the most lethal variety (to 
grapes) is the American Black Walnut. 

Hope this helps. 

Tom Logan


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 04:55:19 -0700
From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: 2nd  runnings and no-sparge

brolston at freedom.net wrote:
> 
> Let's say I want to brew two beers from no sparge session, a stout with the
> first runnings and a IPA with the second. I was thinking about measuring
> the gravity of the second runnings (which I assume will be lower than I
> need for the SG of the IPA), plugging this value into Promash, and
> calculating the amount of LME I would need to reach a starting gravity for
> the IPA recipe.  Assuming everything else is equal (sanitation, amount and
> oxygenation of the yeast, ect.), wouldn't this beer be of better quality
> than one made simply from extract/speciality grains? Would this be
> considered something of a partial mash since I am adding LME?

These two recipes might be hard to mingle in a "parti-gyle" (two mash
run batch) beginning with the stout.  Many all-grain stout recipes call
for a pound of roast barley and a pound of flaked barley (which must be
mashed with some regular grain to convert.  The first runnings for your
IPA may have more roast and flaked barley flavor than you wish.  I
usually make a second beer that is weaker and darker than the first
beer.  (For example, IPA followed by a porter, or a Scottish Ale
followed by a British brown.)
> 
> Next question has to do with the speciality grains.  Since the stout and
> IPA use different specialty grains, wouldn't I be better off leaving them
> out of the mash and steeping the respective specialty grains separately in
> the boiling kettle along with the wort?  

Yes, one major problem ---- your flaked and roasted barleys need some
regular enzymes from pale/pils malt in order to successfully convert
starches.  This is why it would be better to use the first runnings for
the IPA where the emphasis is on malt and the second runnings for stout
or perhaps better yet, Porter.
> 
> I was hoping this approach will allow me to get two quality beers from my
> no sparge session instead of only one.  Thanks for your help.

It will... plan carefully and bear in mind that the second beer will
have some problems hitting the desired starting gravity.

Cheers
Ted in NYC
- -- 
Dr. Ted McIrvine     McIrvine at IX.Netcom.Com       
(College of Staten Island/CUNY)


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 19:45:27 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Hitch Hikers And Homebrewing

My first comment is :
I didn't do it!!
Ivan Milat did.

Now Scotty, don't you go scaring our good American homebrewing friends with
such awful stories about hitch hiker mass murders.

I've got the much celebrated Ray Kruse and his lovely wife Linda on their
way out here for a visit next month. Ray says he expects to be treated like
a queen (which shouldn't be hard - I suspect he is one) but in any event I
certainly don't want him thinking he will be chopped into pieces and spread
around the Belanglo State Forest. Though I must admit, after the skunk oil
episode, the thought did cross my mind.

Only joking Ray, please don't cancel your tickets.

It would be nice to think that a few more of you American homebrewing folk
could get out here for a visit.
The HBD is a great communication tool. But it's lonely out here in Burradoo.
Well, I've got Wes Smith around the corner.
And of course there are always the thirsty lads down at the Burradoo Hilton.
But mostly I drink at home alone with nothing but the visions of Marilyn
crawling out of the bog to keep me occupied.
That and my routine flogging from Jill later in the evening.
I was married late in life.
Is this sort of thing considered normal?

Anyway, this Friday I'm heading all the way north to visit my good mate Dave
Lamotte in Newcastle. Dave has got for me an eighty, yes eighty!! litre
corny keg which I will use as a monster fermenter.
And in the back of the ute will be my trusty 10 litre mobile drinking kit
which I plan to demonstrate to Dave.
And if by chance, when I peel back the tarp,
A couple of good looking hitch hikers have jumped a ride.
Well I'll share the moment with Dave.
In Oz we're like that.
Not like those New Zealand bastards,
Who won't even share their sheep!!

Cheers
Phil



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:11:12 +0200
From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
Subject: Belgian-Dutch Trappist Brewery

Bob Boland asked:

>I hear there's a new Trappist brewery on the Belgium-Netherlands border.
Has 
anyone been there and sampled their beers?>

Yes I did. On the Belgium side of the border is located the new Trappist
brewery Achelse Kluis. Very modern (stainless steel).
At least 1 real monk (brewmaster Thomas is helping the brewer Tom).
Nice clean beers (3). Not so rich like some other Trappist beers.
look at http://www.achelsekluis.myweb.nl/brouwerij/herbergverhaal.html
I thought the beers were a little overcarbonated, but very drinkable.
Greetings from Holland, Hans Aikema



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:41:15 +1000
From: "Grant Stott" <gstott at primus.com.au>
Subject: Re: Soul Mate

Pats post,
> Pat,
>
> WE also need to brew a German Kolsch beer (like Goose Island Summertime
> beer).

Ain't love grand?!

Got me wondering is Kolsch particularly appealing to women? (although
perhaps not in the same legue as rice lager).
My wife who does not particularly like beer unless its 40'C in the shade
asked when was I going to brew another Kolsch? My wifes aunt even preferred
it to Gambrinus pilsener (what a complement!)

Regarding Phils cut down keg, a guy in our brew club has one, fits nicely in
a golf buggy.



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 05:54:59 -0600
From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com>
Subject: Batch-Sparge

B. Rolston asked for help on first and second running from a
batch-sparge mash.

Check out my web page at http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer for an article
on calculating no-sparge and batch-sparge mash characteristics.  I think
it should answer your question. There is a spreadsheet you can download
that will allow you to "play with" the numbers.
- --
*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer
E-mail: kenbob at elp.rr.com




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 06:05:28 -0600
From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com>
Subject: Homegrown Hops

I'm trying my hand at growing hops this year.  Of my four plants, only
one, the Cascade, is presently flowering.  Being their first year, I
wasn't really expecting much, so I guess this is a bonus.  Anyway, I'm
wondering about when to harvest.  I have a picture of what the Cascade
hop cone is supposed to look like (
http://www.john-i-haas.com/cascade.htm ) but my cones do not look like
this.  The picture shows an elongated cone; mine are much stubbier.
However, they seem to pass all the other "tests":

Light, papery feel
Light green color
Do not stay compressed when squeezed
Visible lupulin glands
Slight browning of lower bracts
Decent aroma

Growing Info:  Since other El Paso Desert hop growers that I know of
have failed in attepts to grow hops (they always seem to burn up and die
before getting more than a couple inches tall), I decided to plant mine
in pots on the shady side of the house.  I know they are supposed to
have several hours of direct sun, but I think that's "Oregon sun" and
not "El Paso sun"!  They do get maybe 3-4 hours direct sun and strong,
reflected light the rest of the day.  The plants are all about 10 feet
tall (the Willamettes have started to double back and are probably
14').  I water twice daily on a drip system, delivering about a quart
each time.  The pots are probably 4 gallons.  I used potting soil and I
fertilize every few weeks.

My questions are:

1.  Despite the appearance, are they actually ready to harvest?
2.  Is the appearance due to their being first-year?
3.  Are they going to be usable in brewing?

Thanks.

- --
*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer
E-mail: kenbob at elp.rr.com




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:05:32 -0400
From: Art Tyszka <atyszka at mail.cbf.com>
Subject: RE: Problems Growing Hops

Jim,

Your dad is right.  Black Walnut trees are detrimental to many different
types of plants.  The tree's roots secrete an enzyme called juglone (though
there is some debate if this is the actual compound) that is toxic to many
different species of plants.  The toxic zone from a mature tree is usually a
50 to 60 foot radius from the trunk, but can be up to 80 feet, with
susceptible plants dead within the root zone and dying at the margins.
Tomatoes are especially prone.  Though I have no idea if hops are
susceptible.  Many plants do well under a black walnut and some like
Kentucky Bluegrass even thrive.  You may be finding the same thing I have,
the older I get, the smarter my dad gets.

I'd suggest taking a picture of the whole vine and a few leaves to your
local extension office.  They can diagnose the problem without speculation.

- -- 
Art Tyszka
Loyal Shepherd Brewing Co.
http://www.loyalshepherd.com



Return to table of contents



Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:56:01 -0400
From: "Marty Gulaian" <mag6 at po.cwru.edu>
Subject: Sour mash

"Doug Marion" <mariondoug at hotmail.com> wrote:

>There's been some discussion lately about sour mash. I did this once
for a
>stout but I didn't know what the sour mash was supposed to smell like
and
>since it smelled bad, I never did add it to the beer. I just dumped
it out
>and went with what I had (which turned out good).

I did a couple of sour mashes for stout by mixing in some of my
sourdough starter (mix of wild yeast and lactobacillus). It came out
smelling and tasting pretty good, and I didn't have any worries adding
it back to the main beer. I can't remember that it made much
difference to the final result, though.

Marty Gulaian
Cleveland, OH




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:00:07 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: BAC rant

Yes, Phil's  instant icy rice lager setup sounds like a dream - and it would
pack nicely for a fishing trip too!  I would love to be able to drive down
the road with a frosty one sitting in the cup holder.  One beer won't impair
my judgement and I'm a responsible guy, but unfortunately I can't agree
entirely with Brian's rant.  It's because of the the irresponsible people in
this world that we have to impose limits and laws such as these.  

>I don't want to get off on a rant here, but I'm a little ticked that in my
>little backwater, you can lose your license for a year for as little as .08
>and have your license suspended for 24 hours for a paltry .05. That's HALF
>the legal limit in most of the States.

Here in New Jersey, USA if convicted of driving a motor vehicle with a BAC
>= 0.10% you will recieve a mandatory 6 -12 month suspension of your
licence, up to 30 days imprisonment, 12 - 48 hours community service, a $250
 - $400 fine,  $275 in drunk driving fund penalties, $75 to $150 Intoxicated
Driver Resource Center fee, and (this is the kicker) an extra $1000
insurance surcharge per year for the next 3 years.  You have it easy.  I
can't even *AFFORD* a first offence DUI.  It gets worse for subsequent
convictions.

Now according to the studies posted by the NJMVS, if you drink beyond a BAC
of .05% the risk of your causing a crash doubles. At .10% the risk is six
times as great, and at .15% the risk is 25 times as great.  As far as I'm
concerned, most people drive poorly enough when they're sober...

>I'm not advocating shit-faced blotto drinking and driving, but most
>people can handle the legal limit, and the ones that can't, just 
>tack on a tougher sentence if they cause an accident.

Brian, I'm no "alco-nazi" and this is not intended as a flame either.  But I
cannot agree with your viewpoint for one reason:  Fines, surcharges and jail
terms DON'T BRING BACK THE DEAD.  Once and accident happens, it's already
too late.  I'm a volunteer firefighter and EMT who has scraped my fair share
of victims off of the pavement.  Many of them have been because of drunk
drivers.  Do you know how hard it is to tell a terrified 3 year-old that she
can't see her mommy right now (because she's dead in the back of my rig)?
BTW, it was my word and a cop's against the driver's on how his nose got
broken. He was lucky to have gotten away that easy.

Don't make my job any harder than it already is.  Brew good beer and drink
it responsibly.


Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:10:22 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re:  alkaline alkalinity

Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> wrote
>Basically, the confusion is "alkalinity" versus being "alkaline".
<snip>
> it is possible to reduce the alkalinity and have a solution be more
>alkaline all at the same time, as in the Dornbusch example.  While perhaps
>confusing because of the similarity of the words and lack of detailed
>explanation, the Dornbusch use in this contextual instance was correct.

I think you are right in your analysis of what Dornbusch meant, but it is
poor wording, especially when we have the pH scale to remove this kind of
ambiguity.

>I suspect the calcium from the lime does not react to precipitate the
>bicarbonate ions as Jeff suggests but the hydroxide ion formed by the
>hydration of the lime reacts WITH the bicarbonate ion to remove a proton
>from the bicarbonate and produce a carbonate ion which precipitates as
>calcium carbonate.

I didn't mean to suggest that, but I may have been unclear.  Of course,
it's impossible to distinguish which Ca++ comes from which source.  From AJ
DeLange's post of April, 1997:

>The reaction being exploited is:
>
>Ca++    +  Ca(OH)2 + 2HCO3-   --> 2CaCO3 + 2H2O

Back to Dave:
>Calcium bicarbonate is relatively soluble whereas
>calcium carbonate is relatively insoluble.

Especially at pH of higher than 9.6.  From what I've tried to learn or at
least remember from AJ's excellent posts, after treatment, you need to
decant off the ppt. before CO2 dissolves from the air the calcium carbonate
begins to redissolve (as bicarbonate).  Then you're even worse off than you
were to start with.
>
>What is the actual experience with pH in water treating when lime is added
>to a bicarbonate solution?

The municipal water treatment plant in Ann Arbor uses lime treatment to
soften the water.  The pre-treatment water is somewhere in the low 7's, as
I recall, and the water in the mains was in the mid 9's when I lived in
town.  I think they may have lowered this slightly since.   From AJ's same
post:

>5. After reaching the target pH range continue to stir and monitor pH.
>It will drop as chalk precipitates. Continue to add small amounts of
>slurry to keep the pH in the 9.7 - 10 region.
>6. After all the chalk has dropped, the pH will continue to fall as CO2
>from the air dissolves  but the rate will be much slower. This is your
>signal to stop adding slurry.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:24:49 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Problems Growing Hops

"Jim Arbuckle" <arbucklejim at hotmail.com> of Indianapolis writes of his hops
problems:

>At first we suspected spider mites, so we
>tried blowing the plants with water, which didn't help, and then moved on to
>Dursban. No luck there, the destruction continued unabated. So we decided it
>must be a fungus and sprayed with a fungicide. No change; dying plants.

Not to be hard on you, but the first rule in sensible pest management is to
know what the problem is before you start to treat it.  Otherwise you waste
money and needlessly spread potentially toxic chemicals around.

>Here's the weird part. It is only the bines on the trellis that show this
>condition. The leaves on or close to the ground are fine. My dad speculates
>that it may be the proximity to a black walnut tree. He says that gardeners
>know better than to put tomatoes close to black walnuts, and that hops may
>have a similar susceptibility. Sounds far-fetched to me, but I've seen
>weirder things.

Black walnuts do indeed put a substance into the soil from their roots that
surpresses the growth of some other plants.  Tomatoes are susceptible to
this.  However, I have a very healthy bunch of Cascade hops almost in the
shade of a black walnut grove.  I don't know if they are further apart than
in your case, but at any rate, I would think it would cause a stunting of
the whole plant, not the symptoms you discribe.

After saying all of this, I don't know what is wrong.  I think Oregon State
has some help (I think there's a link from http://www.hoptech.com/ or
http://realbeer.com/hops/, and your local extension agent might be able to
help if you took in a sample.

Jeff


 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:12:36 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Salt and flat beer

Alex Hazlett <arexu at aloha.net> asked why a little salt restored the head on
a beer, and asked

>Are
>the salt crystals providing nucleation points? Is it some chemical
>reaction?

As Pat pointed out, it is the former.  You may have noticed the same thing
from an imperfection of speck of dirt on the inside of a beer glass.

There is a beer glass design from Germany, I think, patented, I also think,
with an etched roughness on the inside bottom of the glass that does the
same thing.  They will produce this pattern in a design of your choice, so
a brewery could have its logo on the bottom.  Pretty neat, I think.  I
haven't seen this advertised here in the States.  I thought it would be a
nice thing for our club glasses.

One might think that this would lead to flat beer from fast decarbonation
but I think there is enough extra gas in the beer.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:27:50 -0400
From: "Spinelli, Mike" <paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil>
Subject: Indian Head Maryland Beer spots?

HBDers,

Got a buddy going to Indian Head Maryland (south of DC).  Any good brewpubs
or bars?

TIA

Mike Spinelli
Cherry Hill NJ


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:39:38 -0500
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: A pint of Ol' Salty, please

Alex Hazlett managed to come up with a beer related question to disguise the
fact that he just wants to brag about being in Honolulu and meeting
beautiful Canadian women:

> 	I was drinking at at Gordon Biersch in Honolulu on
> saturday, and the
> canadienne at my table showed how to 'refresh' the head on a
> beer with a
> little salt. She didn't know how it worked, and I wondered if
> the HBDers
> had a good explanation for this. So why did the bubbles come back? Are
> the salt crystals providing nucleation points?

As Pat has already pointed out, the answer is yes. As a winemaker, I quickly
learned not to add dry ingredients to something saturated with carbon
dioxide. However, it seems to me all you are doing here is creating flat,
salty beer. Then again, being Canadian, she probably discovered that this
actually improved the taste of Labatt Blue. (Oh, behave!)

This does give me an idea , though, for the next time a waiter comes over
offering freshly ground pepper.

Cheers

Brian



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:05:59 -0400
From: Seth Goodman <sethgoodman at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Topsfield Fair Homebrew Competition

The North Shore Brewers and the Topsfield Fair announce the 2000 Topsfield 
Fair Homebrew Competition,
to be held on Saturday, September 9, 2000.

Entries are due by September 2, 2000.

There will be numerous drop-off locations in the Greater Boston 
Area.  Entries can also be dropped off at the Topsfield Fairgrounds August 
29th - September 1st, or shipped to us by the shipping service of your choice.

This year we've got a web site with the relevant information, including 
competition rules, entry form, and bottle labels, located at:

http://hbd.org/northshore/Topsfair.html

The pdf fill-in forms are especially handy, IMHO.  They allow you to enter 
all the form information using your computer keyboard - and, in the case of 
the bottle labels, entering your name once will simultaneously enter it on 
all six labels on the page, and entering the style class and sub-class will 
enter it on the first three or last three labels, depending on where you're 
typing.  You must have the Adobe Acrobat Reader version 3.0 or later.

At the same URL is a link for *on-line* judge and steward sign-up.  Early 
registration helps us to plan better (as well as preventing undue panic 
:-)), and, using the on-line forms, it only takes a few minutes of your time.

Thanks, and good luck in the competition!

Seth Goodman

Vice-President, North Shore Brewers



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:27:16 -0700
From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Removing rust from stainless steel

Lyndon responded to Keith post which apparently asked how to remove
rust on stainless steel caused by having a plain steel washer in
contact with it. Lyndon cited the common use of nitric acid for
repassivation because it preferentially dissolves and iron oxide and
cleans the stainless steel. He also cautioned its use, due to it being
highly corrosive to skin.

The above method works, but there is a much less hazardous method that
works equally well. Use an oxalic acid-based stainless steel cleanser
and a non-metallic scrubby pad (ex. 3M Scotchbrite) to scour the rust
away. You can typically find the cleanser in the grocery store for
cleaning stainless steel pans. Scour the rust away, rinse thoroughly,
dry it and let it sit for a week to repassivate itself naturally.
Done. This technique can also be used to repassivate weld areas on
stainless steel.

John Palmer
jjpalmer at realbeer.com
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/
How To Brew - the book
www.howtobrew.com/





Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:26:12 EDT
From: Prestoniam at aol.com
Subject: wife wanted

WIFE WANTED:

MUST HAVE HER OWN RIMS.
BE HAPPY TO BREAK DOWN AND CLEAN OLD KEGS.
CLEAN AND SANITIZE CARBOYS, HOSES, TUBES, ETC.
TAKE OUT THE SPENT GRAINS AND HOPS
SERVE A DRAFT WITH THE RIGHT FOAM LEVEL

PS. SEND PICTURE OF RIMS


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:26:52 -0400
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Alkalinity

RE: the discussion of alkalinity: I haven't read the Dornbusch material
in question so I'll be general. Dave's observation that the terminology
WRT to alkalinity is confusing is certainly valid. It would probably be
better if rather than calling it "alkalinity" we called it "buffering
capacity" because that is really what it is. It is also related to the
amount of alkali in the water and that's probably why we call it what we
do. The catch is that the pH doesn't tell you how much acid or base is
in a solution - only what the balance between the two is. One millimole
of acid with one millimole of base in a liter of water gives the same pH
as one mole of acid and one millimole of base (ionic strength
cosiderations aside).

The key  to understanding is in how alkalinity is measured. Strong acid
is added to a sample of water until the pH reaches 4.3 (in brewing, in
water treatment other values of pH close to 4.3 are used). Thus anything
in the water which consumes protons contributes to alkalinity. This
includes carbonate, bicarbonate, phosphate, silicate, nitrate, nitrite
and hydroxide. Of these bicarbonate is the only one that is significant
when pH is less than 8.3. At higher pH's carbonate and hydroxide come
into play but hydroxide should not be a big factor in brewing water at
normal pH's (at pH 10 hydroxide contributes 5 ppm as CaCO3). Phosphate,
silicate, nitrate and nitrite either have dissociation constants such
that they are minor contributors and/or are at low enough concentration
that they don't make an appreciable contribution.

When Ca(OH)2  (or CaO) is added to water, hydroxyl ions are released.
Some of these are "neutralized" (as Dave suggested) by the "acid" HCO3-
forming water and CO3-- . If calcium is present in sufficient quantity
that [Ca++][CO3--] > Ks  = 3.3E-9 (25C) there is precipitation of chalk
which removes carbonate. This upsets the equilibrium so more bicarbonate
shifts to carbonate releasing more protons which neutralize more (OH-)
and the pH falls back. The way I do this is to make up a slurry of lime
and add it to the water to be decarbonated until the pH reaches 9.5 -
10. I seed the water with chalk first to aid in the precipitation. As
precipitation occurs, the pH starts to fall back. I then trickle in more
lime slurry  slowly so as to maintain the pH in the 9.5 - 10 region. The
pH will continue to fall back indefinitely as CO2 from the air dissolves
but the rate of fallback is much slower after the water's initial
bicarbonate load has been precipitated. At this point I stop adding
slurry and continue to stir until the pH reaches about 9. At this point
the precipitate is allowed to settle and the clear water decanted.

The level to which you can theoretically decarbonate depends upon the
original calcium and alkalinity levels before lime is added. If the
hardness and alkalinity are numerically equal you can theoretically get
down to less that 20 ppm alkalinity (as CaCO3) at pH 9. For calcium
hardness three times alkalinity you can theoretically get pretty close
to 0. As a practical matter, if calcium was in excess (calcium hardness
greater than the alkalinity) or if you have rendered the calcium
hardness greater than the alkalinity by adding calcium chloride or
calcium sulfate, you should have water with alkalinity of 50 ppm or less
as CaCO3 when you are finished (the best I have ever done is 21 ppm).
Addition of a calcium salt before lime addition is probably advisable in
a majority of cases as each mEq of bicarbonate precipitated takes two
mEq of calcium with it and a healthy amount of calcium is wanted in the
mash.



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:10:29 GMT
From: happydog at nations.net
Subject: Question for Steve Michalek.... Old Busch ?

Hello Steve
Ask a young beer drinker living in STL (21 y/o drinking age in Mo. and
19 y/o across the river for men and 18 y/o for women) I remember
buying cases of Busch for my buds and I at about 5 bucks a case. I
seem to remember the cans had much larger and brighter green pine
trees on them. I all so remember Busch only  being available in the
STL area and then later becoming a premium beer and thus becoming
available everywhere. Am I remembering correctly or has all the AB
brewery tours of my youth fogged my mind.;-)

Thank you
Wil Kolb
Happy Dog Brewing Supplies
401 W.Coleman Blvd
Mt Pleasant SC 29464
843-971-0805
Fax 843-971-3084
1-800-528-9391
happydog at nations.net
www.maltydog.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:45:24 EDT
From: "Brett Schneider" <bikenbrew at hotmail.com>
Subject: cold plate wanted

I am helping my office buy a double tap cold plate assembly, and a quick 
search of the internet did not yield many hits. They want a standard unit 
and I will plumb in the cornie keg fittings. Can anyone out there point me 
to the right place to browse and buy? Thanks - Brett
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:33:17 -0700
From: "sarina" <sarinahorse at email.msn.com>
Subject: honey to carbonate with

i would like to know how much honey to use to prime and carbonate a 6 gal
batch of beer with honey. michael sarinahorse at msn.com






Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:16:19 -0400
From: "Jay and Arlene Adams" <goosepoint at teleplex.net>
Subject: Second Annual Blue Ridge Brew Off

The Mountain Ale and Lager Tasters' (MALT) second annual Blue Ridge Brew Off
promises to be another fun filled competition. The competition will be held
in Asheville, North Carolina, which is located in the heart of the beautiful
Blue Ridge Mountains. Asheville is convenient to the Great Smoky Mountains
National Park, Biltmore House and Gardens, Grandfather Mountain, Pisgah
National Forest, and many other scenic attractions. Excellent golfing, trout
fishing, boating, and mountain climbing abound in the area. The Fall is
actually one of the most beautiful times to visit this area.  The
competition will be held on September 9, 2000.



For entry forms, drop off points, and any other details contact me at
goosepoint at teleplex.net.



The judge coordinator is Brian Cole, and he can be reached at
bribarcole at aol.com.



Come join us for a great time in the mountains!



Cheers!

Jay Adams

BRBO Organizer




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:38:11 -0700
From: Randy Barnes <rbarnes at sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: Sour Mash

Doug Marion mentions "rotten foot odor" from a sour mash recipe and his
reluctance to add the mash to his beer. I've had similar experiences when
sour mashing a wheat beer. Sour mashed the whole batch overnight, awoke the
next morning to a strong vomit smell in the garage. Went ahead and brewed
it, but the smell/flavor carried over into the finished beer and I
eventually had to dump the batch. Kept it for 6+ months, though, to see
whether it would "mellow" out. 

I may try the acid malt in greater proportions to add a "tang" to beers
where this might be desirable. I too have used this up to 1/4 lb. in 10
gal., without obvious acidity in the finished beer (a Kolsch, as I recall).
If anyone has used this with success to brew a Berliner Weiss (and got the
correct acidity in the flavor), please let us know.

Randy in San Diego


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:41:30 -0400
From: mohrstrom at humphreypc.com
Subject: Neo-Prohibition


Brian Lundeen makes the call:
>>>Of course, you and I and pretty much everybody in this group understand
that
you are still talking about responsible drinking, but I can see the knees
jerking already at your idea. In fact, maybe we should forward this to the
zero-tolerance idiots that populate M.A.D.D. I'll bet we could take out a
good quarter of them with popped aneurisms!<<<

Folks, it is time to take a page from the National Rifle Association
political action manual .  Facing ever greater pressures for additional gun
legislation, they have taken the tack of "why pass more laws if you don't
enforce those already on the books?"  The same could work for us.

If we counter the 0.08 BAC by demanding mandatory prison sentences for
repeat offenders (at current BACs), we can gain the moral high ground.  If
the debate turns to zero-tolerance of impairment, we need to counter by
demanding ongoing and frequent testing of all drivers for competence --
with endorsements for urban, high-speed and night operation.

I am a pilot, and this system works for us.  People fear aircraft falling
from the sky, but live in ignorant bliss over the cell-phone toting driver
trying to weave her two-ton SUV from lane to lane mere inches from them.

Fred Eckhardt spoke eloquently at the NHC on the subject of
Neo-Prohibition.  Perhaps Fred would be interested in coaching the HBD on
effective rebuttal of MADD?


Mark in Kalamazoo



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 19:26:41 -0400
From: Bill Wible <bwible at pond.com>
Subject: Question about a keg

My father recently gave me an old keg that he acquired very cheap at 
an auction.  After looking at the last issue of Brewing Techniques, 
which has alot of info on kegs, I believe the keg is a Hoff-Stevens 
type.  It looks like the stereotypical beer keg,  being fat in the 
middle and narrowing at the ends.  (My dad says this was so the 
brewers could roll the keg).  It is marked with the name of the now 
defunct Schmidt's brewery, which used to be here in Philadelphia.  It 
is stamped ALCOA, so It must be made of aluminum.  It says it is 7.75 
gallons.  It has a wood bung in the hole, and sloshes.  It is 
apparently about 1/4 full with old beer (or something).  It has a 
round connection on the top with 2 holes in it.

Some questions:
Eventually, I would like to get an English style hand pump, and 
perhaps use this keg for cask style English ales like bitter or mild.

1) I gather these kegs aren't valuable?
2) Where can I acquire replacement bungs?  I gather that I will have 
to destroy the bung to remove it.
3) Being made of aluminum, is it safe to use this to dispense beer? 
I've read that you shouldn't use aluminum brew pots, though I know 
people do.  But this would be for dispensing finished beer, not for 
boiling wort.  I typically have 5 or 6 of the 5 gallon Pepsi kegs 
full of beer at any point in time.  Some of my beers hang around for 
6 months or more, so we could be taking long term storage.  I am 
currently drinking a cream ale that I kegged on December 21st.  It is 
still very good, and about half the keg is left.  Guess my sanitation 
was good on this one!
4) Alternatively, 7.75 gallons seems like a good size for a primary fermenter.

I am aware of the fittings required for this keg, except for the 
bungs.  It should be fairly easy to clean.

Anybody out there using this kind of a keg in a homebrew set up? 
Anybody know of anything to watch out for?

Thanks.

Bill



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 22:23:55 -0400
From: Booth <kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Genessee 

Just spent a week in Rochester NY, a center of the temperance movement
in the US.
Tried to get some Genessee Cream Ale but could only find one store
selling it and
I would have had to buy a 30 pak which was a bit much as I was headed
for Canada
the next day and didn't want to screw up customs.  Alas....no Genny
cream ale.

Did get to see a re-creation of a pioneer country brewery in the
Genessee County
Historical Village.  An interesting arrangement.  Next door they had a
hop yard, a hop
kiln and baling operation  and a storage loft.  The docent said they
used
regular barley, not malt but the house next door was that of a
prosperous business man who
owned a number of businesses including a malt house.  The brewery
brought in sacked
ground malt via a 2nd story rope and pulley and used hand pumps to bring
the water up
to the kettle to heat.  It was then pumped up to a reservoir to drain
into a mash tun.

The mash tun was sparged into a settling vessel, then the wort was hand
pumped back
to the boiling kettle.  After hops and boiling, it was let into a vessel
and pumped to
a three level coolship.  From there to fermenters and lagering in the
basement.

Hot side aeration.......you got it in spades.

Anyway....its a much more sophisticated operation than the 18th century
William Penn
house brewery in PA near  Trenton, NJ, and worth a look for those
interested in such.

Anybody else got historic brewery re-creations to visit?

cheers,  jim booth







Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 22:52:47 EDT
From: "Al Beers" <albeers at hotmail.com>
Subject: Beer in Ann Arbor??

From: "Jim Wallace" <jwallace at crocker.com>
Subject: Beer in Ann Arbor??

Looking for good beer in Ann Arbor.. I am an artist who will be exhibiting
in AA next week for the Arts Festival (on South University .. near villiage
variety) 4 looooong days.. I will seriously be in need of good beer sites ..
bars, cafes, pubs, or stores ..
 .. also a list of local beers to look for would be good

If you come out to the show stop by and say hi. I am a HBr and will be
running one of the 4 'North Eastern HomeBrewer of the Year' out here in
western MA. this fall

Jim, IMHO you'll want to go to Arbor Brewing, best in town, great variety. 
Grizzly Peak down the street has mediocre beer, but nothing objectionable. 
Good food.


Don't take life too seriously...you won't get out alive.

Al
albeers at hotmail.com

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



Return to table of contents

---